I rarely rarely ever agree with any Michael McWhorter says, but even a broke clock is right twice a day. Or so the saying goes. So when I was forwarded these excerpts from a post written by Mr. McWhorter on The New Republic Blogs, I was very ready to disagree and burn in effigy the font he used to write such malarkey. The thing is, in some ways I agree with his general premise.
Oh yeah, I forgot, here’s the premise (I know you all don’t like reading two posts in order to read one so here are the pertinent parts):
The figures from the American Community Survey just in are more than crunched numbers. They suggest that this might be a good year for a certain term now familiar in American parlance to be, if not consigned to history, reassigned.
Namely, as of now, almost 1 in 10 black people are foreign-born. About 1 in 30 are from Africa. Which means that they are–you see where I’m going–African American in the true sense. Certainly a truer sense–true as in making sense–than Tracy Morgan, Donna Brazile, Jesse Jackson, or Mo’Nique.
Interesting assertion, though quite frankly, anybody who wants to draft Mo’Nique in the next race draft is more than welcome as far as I’m concerned.
Continuing.
It’d be one thing if it were a hundred years ago and lots of black people still had parents who had been born into slavery and grandparents who actually “spoke African,” as it was sometimes put. But this is a very different time.
A possible objection, I imagine, is that native-born blacks are African in a “different” way than actual African immigrants–but this would be a feint rather than an argument: clearly, the proper formulation, if we are to put it on the table, is that native-born blacks are African to a much lesser extent than African immigrants. In truth, a black man from Jacksonville has more in common with a white one from Tucson than he does with a man three years out of Senegal.
And I would argue that native-born blacks are so vastly less “African” than actual Africans that calling ourselves “African American” is not only illogical but almost disrespectful to African immigrants. Here are people who were born in Africa, speak African languages, eat African food, dance in African ways, remember African stories, and will spiritually always be a part of Africa–and we stand up and insist that we, too, are “African” because Jesse Jackson said so?
It’s an interesting question, no? There is some truth there. While many of us refer to ourselves as African-American, the fact is, most of us are no more African at this point than that “Irish” kid in Boston who’s parents came over on some random ship in the 1700s. Sure we’re all of descent, but given that there really ARE actual African-Americans (children of first generation African immigrants born here) who seemingly still readily identify as African, how African American am I?
Truth be told, I pretty much just call myself Black anyway and I think I’ve heard more white people say African-American than I’ve heard Black folks say it. But it is a word that is commonly donned upon our community without much objection.
Consider this: a white man from down South and a Black man from down South more than likely share a lot of the same customs, eating habits, and religious practices. The only thing separating most of us is social justice and race. But American? Sure, we’re all as American as it gets. One of my best friends went to Kenya when we were in college and upon his return he said he’s no longer considering himself an African-American, just an American, because he couldn’t be more different than the folks he met in Kenya. While I found that synopsis a bit shortsighted at the time, I do understand what he meant.
I have African friends who’ve alluded to being fearful of American Blacks (we’ve talked about this before on VSB).
Of course, it’s not really Black folks holding onto the African-American thing as handily as it is white people making sure to let us know that we’re not “American” American so perhaps McWhorter’s words are directed at the wrong audience.
But I ask you, thinking people of VSB, does it still make sense for American-born Black folks to be considering themselves as African-Americans?
Hell, does it even matter?
What say you?
P has spoken.
-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka TANGLE JIG P aka GIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRL, HE A 3 (PENDING 4)
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{ 292 comments… read them below or add one }
Whoa! Two thought provoking posts in a row! That’s wussup. I have thoughts on this based on my experiences in Africa as well. Will share when I have more than a touchscreen.
@Ms. Smart, Yeah I def co-sign this as a very thought-provoking post as well.
As for Black vs. African American, I don’t care what people call themselves. I always say Black and when I’m describing someone Black else to anybody (regardless of their race), I’ll say Black. Usually when I hear someone say African American, it’s an attempt to be PC.
@Slim Jackson, AA is the official ‘unoffensive safe term’.
When I was in Canada, Mexico, Switzerland, I felt American. I felt no connection to those people (any color). When I was in Africa, even there I felt more American than African. The African is genetic. I didn’t feel the ‘connection’ other folks say they feel when they went there.
I don’t mind being called Black. But I think for previous generations (particularly those in their early 20′s in the 70′s) being connected to Africa was the style and black usually had some negative connotation. I’ve decided, every Monday Wednesday, and Fridays I’ll be AA. On Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays I’ll be Black. But on Sundays, I’ll be American.
I have never considered myself to be anything but American. I am Black and I was born here. I am not nor will I ever call myself a “hyphenated-American” name. It is a way of keeping the race issues front and center. It is divisive to hyphenate an race with “American”. Whites are not white-Americans. Why should any other race be stuck with such a moniker? If I am called African-American, I correct the person black, white or other.
@It Figures!, “Whites are not white-Americans. Why should any other race be stuck with such a moniker?”
Good point! Outside of the US, is there other countries that do this? I’ve never heard anyone called African-British or anything….
@Leila,
“Outside of the US, is there other countries that do this? I’ve never heard anyone called African-British or anything….”
I have been to Italy, France and Switzerland. I did not hear anything like that.
@It Figures!, your right, theyre just unwanted immigrants.Minorities in European countries are barely second class citizens, and to refer to them as anything akin to French, Italian, and swiss will be met with laughter by nationals of the countries you mentioned. I think the phenomenon of black, immigrant people identitying with western nations is unique to the Americas.
@postmodern pwnage, This isn’t true. In every job application I’ve ever filled in England there’s always been a Black British – African and a regular African option.
Black British is a fairly common phrase but the reason it is not used widely is because most black people in Britain like to be specific of their heritage.
Never heard someone being laughed at for saying they are Nigerian-German or Ghanaian-British.
@Leila,
Good point! Outside of the US, is there other countries that do this? I’ve never heard anyone called African-British or anything….
I’m currently down here in Colombia teaching English, and I must say that down here, there is the term “afro-colombians” as well as “afro-(insert nation)” for most of latin america despite, in many cases, blacks being the majority population. So maybe this hyphenated term issue have more to deal with more the displaced afro population all of the world and not just America (or maybe it is just us Black-americans trying to fit in and be apart of something that clearly does not want to associate with us)
@Leila, in Germany you’ll find Afro-Deutsch, but I think it goes without saying the germans aren’t great role models when it comes to racial identity.
@Leila,
Where I’m @, you will rarely hear the term ‘African-Canadian’ used in conversation. Most people I know refer to themselves as black, or they’ll say they’re from Jamaica, Senegal or wherever.
@It Figures!,I am Black and I was born here. I am not nor will I ever call myself a “hyphenated-American” name. It is a way of keeping the race issues front and center
I don’t understand how is it keeping race issue front and center. So are you saying that when black folks hyphenate their trying to make a race issue. Yeah cause clearly race issues are a figment of our imagination.
@hehe,
“I don’t understand how is it keeping race issue front and center. So are you saying that when black folks hyphenate their trying to make a race issue. Yeah cause clearly race issues are a figment of our imagination.”
How? Are we the ones really changing our name? The race issue is not brought up by Blacks but Whites or more clearly ignored by them as existing. If we are hyphenated, are we really (fully) American? We are once removed by our “country” of origin. It assumes not one Black is American, period. Is there any European-Americans or Australian-American? Does anyone use these terms? NO. Race is an issue in America as well as other countries. It is never a figment of the imagination. I never said that or alluded to it.
@It Figures!,
I don’t believe that Hyphenating makes us any less America; I think society we live in dictates that. Black people in America has always been looked at as not fully American and what is seen as “fully” American has always been white(hell even the first people of America is not even considered fully America). Do you really think by not hyphenating we will be considered more American or tightly fit into that identity and embrace more by other white Americans?
I just think when we bring into the discussion that Whites are considered American sans hyphenation, we are just trying to assimilate into their unifying American identity in which we don’t.
@It Figures!, I have never considered myself to be anything but American. I am Black and I was born here. I am not nor will I ever call myself a “hyphenated-American” name. It is a way of keeping the race issues front and center. It is divisive to hyphenate an race with “American”.
I agree. I’ll say American or American Black, but I am an American. Period.
Wait, he’s saying African immigrants should be called African American?
About 1 in 30 are from Africa. Which means that they are–you see where I’m going–African American in the true sense.
I thought they would be called wherever they’re from…
I identify as Black myself…maybe Black American will be the next thing we’re called…
@KaNisa, but “BLACK” is a color. I’m confused when people call themselves BLACK. Can you explain?
@Yaa, Well, white is a color too but no one (except Powder) is actually white… it’s a generalization, not to mention everyone’s skin-tones vary- how much sense would it make to group each and every person by their actual skin tone? I doubt there are even enough category names for that mess.
@Yeah…SO?!,
lmfao @ “except Powder”. Oh, and add Tilda Swinton/Conan O’Brien to that list.
@Yaa, are you confused when people call themselves white too?
@klysha,
i called my six year old cousin black and he yelled “i’m brown!” and you know what, i can’t say i blame him. being called black just generalizes everything. if i want to get specific on my skin tone, i reference the current makeup color i wear. which means i have gone from toasted almond to mink to NW45.
@klysha, very much so. I have real issues with it!
@Yaa,
I totally agree with Yaa. Because when you ask a white person what’s their nationality or ethnicity they won’t say “white”. They will most likely say Russian, Irish, Italian, etc. Plus their color is not actually “white”. We also know folks who look “white” but are NOT and will cuss
curseyou out if you refer to them as such. Slang and colloquialism does not necessarily define a person or their heritage. It’s also more than skin color. There are albinos who may have “white” skin, but ain’t white.@legitimate_soul, ok then ask them what their race is
Yeah, I’ve always identified with calling myself Black. Never had a desire to even want to be called “African American”. That’s what white people call us when they’re trying to be politically correct, so to speak.
I just hope people don’t start trying to usher in a new name for us. It changes every cuple of decades so it’s probably about that time.
@Monk,
“I just hope people don’t start trying to usher in a new name for us. It changes every cuple of decades so it’s probably about that time.”
i’m tellin….it’s a test ain’t it….
I am Black.
Afrikan or Black people have been on the earth since the beginning of time and have traveled it just as long. There is blackness on every continent of the globe, all the world’s people have an essence of black whether they would willingly or unwilling admit it. Black history is evident in the pyramids, the statues, the moving of plants, through linguistics and music, art and science, and many more facets- most likely there will be an Afrikan not blue but black print. Afrika is the pulse of humanity, spreading out like veins throughout the body it pumps its history, “the blackness is not my blood, though it flows through my veins…I am swallowed up in the blackness so that I am at one with it.” Though it may elude you physically, blackness is transcendental traveling like the many winds that blow upon the earth, winds that have touched us all at one point or another- this is why our history rather hot or cold is interconnected and bond together. The unifying agent of blackness is the Black Diasporas experience, the origin of the willing and the unwilling travels of humankind, this blackness is so vast that it cannot merely be defined by physical aspects alone, but must be understood by the knowledge of history.” Blackness is visible yet invisible.”
I agree with you Panama that I heard more white people use “Africa-American” than black people. I can’t even remember the last time that I heard someone black use it…..
I have friends from Africa and America and I’ve never met anyone who liked to be called “African-American.” Africans only represent their country (some even just their ethnic group) and Americans like to be called black. I was born in East Africa and my whole family is from there, but I spent most of my life in NY. I feel like I’m a blend of both East African and American cultures and not quite either enough.
Styles P said it best…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYti_Enq10c
@aceklub,
indeed. love that song.
@aceklub,
Good Look on that link…
Bond
@aceklub,
Yes!!!!
@aceklub, could you give us the gist of it?… I can’t get youtube at work
@Yeah…SO?!,
It is a song by Styles P called “I’m Black” where he is rapping about what he feels defines him as a Black man.
Here are the lyrics
http://www.anysonglyrics.com/lyrics/s/styles/Im-Black-Lyrics.htm
@aceklub, thanks luv
I’ve always referred to myself as Black.
I don’t like the term African-American because I don’t identify with it whatsoever (but some people might; I’m just saying it doesn’t hold any real value for me). I’m not African. I don’t know anyone in my family who’s African. As far back as anyone in my family knows, we’re from Virginia. I’m not discrediting my heritage, I just don’t know what it is. Maybe it’d be different if I knew where my ancestors were from (one day I’d like to find out), but as of now, the term itself – “African”-American, gives me no further identity of myself because Africa is a big f-in place.
I don’t identify with being American either. This is not my native land. I can go on a whole different tangent about what I think of American history, but for the sake of brevity I’ll just state the obvious by saying this country’s attitude hasn’t been so great towards people that look like me. Yeah, I certainly enjoy the freedoms and whatnot that I have as a citizen, and I don’t take that for granted, but as I alluded to before, I’m feel no sense of belonging here. So for self-identification purposes, I just call myself a Black man.
I also realize that last paragraph is the most contradictory thing I’ve ever written considering how much I pride myself on being from Maryland.
@P., YAY for the quaint little state of MARYLAND! With it’s four seasons and perfect geographical location!
@Anike Love,
Yo you just got mad cised and referred to my state as “quaint.” Not really sure how to respond to that lol.
But word on the perfect geographical location. Could stand to axe all the humidity in the summer, but no tornadoes or earthquakes. “Hurricane” means leftover rain from whatever just destroyed the South. And snow… well yeah we get that, it’s all in the game. But that’s why Dad got a working snow blower to use in case you aren’t around but don’t you dare touch it when you got two healthy arms and two healthy legs to shovel that sh*t your damn self. Shoveling builds character.
@P.,
Born, raised, moved away and came back. MD is my shiznit.
You can call yourself what ever you want. I don’t have an issue with the word African-American and honestly I don’t think you can compare people of the African diaspora with other groups because our ancestor didn’t just hop on a ship to find a better life. When you look at the it historically and even at the present its not like Blacks been so welcome in America. and with other immigrant groups who came here more specifically those who came from Europe it easier for them to be integrated into the American identity because their white and look like the who run the country.
Also if we’re looking at the whole continent of Africa, I’m sure not everyone there will have the unified identity of what it is to be African cause it so diverse.
I have more to say but its late
@hehe, this is a little off topic- BUT… I just had a thought (scary I know)- what if we all (black people) took all our money and just bounced and went to Afrika on some “you gon miss me when I’m gone” type isht and helped cultivate Africa the way we are America… that isht would be crazy huh?
@Yeah…SO?!, I would join that crusade. It would be a beautiful thing as long as we don’t modernize the country so much that it looses it’s culture/history like many places do once they become involved with westernization.
You think that’s possible?
@IJstDntUnderstand, not really… not to be a pessimist- this is MY fantasy, no? But, a fantasy nonetheless… I guess anything is possible (yay Obama) but seriously we can’t even agree to disagree on what we “are”- … do you really think we could get organized enough to make a trek like that?- though I would love to see it.
This is why the word NEGRO solves everything. We all negroes!!!
I prefer to say I am Black, because Black means the same here, in the UK, in Canada, Brazil, etc. at least to me. I know every country has their own labels, but when we get down to it we all came from the motherland at some point.
If I ever use the term African-American, it’s for white people’s sake. It makes them feel relaxed. Funny how that works.
@Liz, Black doesnt mean the same thing in the UK as it means here. You can be Indian or Middle eastern and be considered Black.
@hehe,
i don’t think thats necessarily true, if you not white, in the U.K they are referred to as ethnic minorities mainly, but those of afro-caribbeans descent are called afro-caribbeans( though this is rarley used) but commonly referred to as black.
@hehe, that’s why I have a qualifier in there: to me and most Americans what we call African American can still be considered what I would call a Black person in any other country. Negro or motherland-ish = Black.
@Liz,
This is why the word NEGRO solves everything. We all negroes!!!
lmao i agree!!! i just instituted the “negro neuro network” which consists of Ivy St and myself since we are the only “negros” in our program. the name is more fitting and warm then the “black brain bloc”.
I prefer being identified as BLACK…I have white folks left and right tiptoe around what to call me in an effort to be politically correct. Instead of saying I have (add any random number but less than 4) Black friends they say African American friends. When I tell them I prefer to be identified as BLACK they clutch their pearls, looking aghast and have the nerve to say “But BLACK is so degrading…I prefer African American (WTF? You prefer? Who asked you?) They ask isn’t calling African Americans “BLACK” the same as calling them “NEGRO”? NEGRO?! (Hell nawww it aint!). I have to explain that I don’t want to be called African American because even though I am proud of my ancestry, I am too far removed from the Motherland to claim that title. When Obama became President I had a similar debate with my white co-workers (I was one of the only two BLACKS at the company) They asked me how I felt having an Black President. I told them I didn’t have a BLACK President. I had a President of African Decent, not a President who was a descendant of slaves like me. Obama has an African Father and a White Mother….so not BLACK.
I said when “Leroy Tyrone Jackson from Compton, or Lucious Seephus Hunsaker from Mississippi becomes President then you can ask me how I feel about having a BLACK President. There is a difference….A huge difference. Our histories (BLACKS and Africans are not truly shared, they converge on the simple fact that once long long long time ago my long long long lost ancestors were stolen from the same Africa that Africans come from. That’s about it….From my vantage point not enough for me to call myself African Americans when there are Africans from Africa who are becoming or have become Americans…I am a BLACK American…and I’m cool with that.
@WonderWoman,
…And I think we will be good friends based on this post alone.
Bond.
@BlkBond, Good! Let’s be good friends then.
@WonderWoman,
you on point W2 keep it up!
@kingpinenut, Thank you!
@WonderWoman,
This is almost pure insanity. You have managed to classify the term “Black” as a minute cultural identity outside of the diaspora in whole. From what I am reading, it seems as if you are saying that Black refers to Americans that are descendents of slaves in the U.S. Africans can’t be Black for that reason. I totally disagree. Black is a racial term, not necessarily classifying specific ethnicities. If Obama had not been the President, but rather been the guy sitting next to you on a train, you’d tell someone that you were on the train next to a Black guy. But because you know Obama has a father of African descent and a White mother, because of that he can not be “Black.” Does not make sense. Being anywhere in the world, if the pigment of one’s skin is decadent of being of African descent and that person interacts with people of another color, chances are that he/she may have experienced similar racial biases.
At the end of the day, I disagree with hyphenations and realize that I am American. This is my country. This is my home. This is the place I most readily identify with, even if the majority would rather not identify with me. If anyone would like to hyphenate me, then I am most comfortable with using “Black-American”
@Challa Soul, I did not classify anything…I was born classified. There is a difference between myself (a descendant of slaves born in the US) and Africans (born in Africa).
Black people were being murdered and prevented from enjoying the basic ideals that the America the world knows today claims as its heritage. I did not grow up knowing where or who I came from. I have never stepped foot on the land of my for-fathers, I have no tribe or region to claim, Instead I have a history of pain and discrimination in this country. Recent Africans that have come here have come after these things have already occurred. It makes us different. Does that mean I don’t know where I come from? No! I too claim the blood of Akebulan….but in this time, in this place, and in this country that classifies me (and in some instances needs to do so for census, social services, financial aid etc) African American does not clearly state who I am and what my experience in this country is. What is “Latin but not of African American Decent?Pacific Islander, Asian…I didn’t coin these terms but since they are here, call me by the one I personally feel comfortable with. The fact that I am classified at all is where the insanity begins.
@WonderWoman, dang… very well put… although I will say this about the Obama statement- he is black, he ain’t a Black American… but he’s black nonetheless and regardless of where his mom and dad are from, the fact that he looks more like me than the 2520 mofo that got promoted over me although I was more qualified says a lot.
@Yeah…SO?!, True he election says a lot, I cried and celebrated like the rest of us. The fact that he grew up here makes him closer to my experience than an African who came here as an adult.
If you say BLACK is anyone with a drop of African or African descendant blood than I guess he’s BLACK by that definition. But also by definition he’s BLACK because in this country, hair texture, skin color and a drop of African blood makes you both BLACK or African American since both are used interchangeably…By my own definition Obama is an African American with a shared BLACK experience…
SAY IT LOUD! I’M BLACK AND I’M PROUD!
(sorry …got caught up in the moment…)
@WonderWoman,
*does James Brown shuffle*
@Cheekie, Shuffling with you…but I have a cape on…Whew! just threw it off!….Whew just put it back on!…Shuffling again!
i actually prefer negro (like liz). or colored — altho many ppl can be “of color” not everyone can be colored. even blacks (like african born blacks) arent described as or considered “colored”. i mean, when you say colored, you know you talkin bout a descendant of the mid-atlantic slave trade. black is 3rd on my preferred list.
ppl who use the term african american make my eye twitch. mostly because its too many words and syllables. colored, negro, or black do the trick much quicker. besides, the name kinda mixes apples and oranges — continent of origin with country of placement (so to speak). and really geographic location is irrelevant. color and race are the most important indicators by which to judge ppl in the u.s. of a. duh!
@The One & True GEM… of the Ocean,
IDK e-boo, (ex?)…the word colored and negro doesn’t sit well with me. Just hearing a white person say “colored” makes me feel like I’m watching Missisippi Burning all ova again. And “negro” well..that’s just a gateway word to “n*gger”. Kinda like weed. Might lead to other sh*t. Although African-american doesn’t bother me as much (i suppose bcuz I’ve heard it all my life) I’d much prefer “black” vs negro or colored in my book. BTW…how are you?
@Tx10inch, “just a gateway word to “n*gger”. Kinda like weed. Might lead to other sh*t.”
bwahahaha- dat was funny
@The One & True GEM… of the Ocean,
“colored”
I can’t ride with you on this one missy…lol
I’ve had ol’ 2520 biddies refer to me as such when I used to work retail, and best believe it wasn’t said with the best connotation. It was like 2 steps away from calling me a n*gger.
I was ready to move furniture.
@miss t-lee,
exactly! calling someone colored is like saying an Asian person is an oriental.
makes me cringe. so does the word negro.
@lulu,
“calling someone colored is like saying an Asian person is an oriental.”
*what’s up head nod*
@miss t-lee,
Right and pronounced with a hard “K” at that….like , oh for real…
@Smiley Face,
Oh you already know girl. There was definitely some stank on it. It was like she just itching to use the other word.
@miss t-lee,
wow, i expected YOU of all ppl to go with the flow on this one. you slid right passed the sarcasm and immediately into rationale. i was tryna be fox news and you went all cnn anderson 360 (fact checker) on a sista.
*smh* what is the world (read: vsb) coming to these days????
@Gem of the Ocean,
Somedays I don’t catch the sarcasm…lol Help me out next time.
Peace and fish grease.
@The One & True GEM… of the Ocean, I’m witchu on dis… why make placing judgement on others difficult? I like my judgement to come with ease… I imagine 2520 America feels the same.
@Yeah…SO?!,
lmao thank you!!!!!
“african americans” take themselves waaaaaay too seriously for the standards at which america operates. the more racially charged and “accurate” the better.
@The One & True GEM… of the Ocean, I would submit to being called Negroid, when white folks let me call them Caucasoid and Asians let me call them Mongoloid…
Had a lil more to add….
The Definition of American used to be :
A native of America; — originally applied to the aboriginal inhabitants, but now applied to the descendants of Europeans born in America.
American is now defined as :
A native of America; — originally applied to the aboriginal inhabitants, but now applied to the descendants of Europeans born in America.
and especially to the citizens of the United States.
We (BLACKS) have always been an after thought, we were never intended to be citizens, to own anything, to have any rights. The Blacks from the beginning of slavery until now that were lynched, tortured, murdered, jailed, beaten, threatened, and prevented by various means from the full benefits of American Citizenship fought for my right to be considered an American Citizen so I claim that and wear it proudly for that fact and the fact that regardless of and despite America’s very ugly past, there is no other country like this one…So again BLACK AMERICAN is cool with me!
wow, no pan-africanists on here? I definitely understand where many of you guys are coming from, but my position is that black people are African people, whether they live in columbus, salvador, brazil or in brixton, london. I dont know, many of the comments posted here puzzle me the same way dominicans puzzle me when they get angry when called ‘black’ or ‘african’. Hopefully some other commenters come out in support of Garvey’s vision. Interesting topic!
@postmodern pwnage,
I just call my Dominican friend “my favorite Mexican”. She hates it and that makes it funny as sh*t to me!
@Caballeroso, P.E., that is funny as heck…LMAO
@Caballeroso, P.E., you’s a fool
@postmodern pwnage,
Refer to comment number five ^^^^^^
@postmodern pwnage,
I am a Garveyist/Nkruma-ist/Lumumba-ist… but then again it might be easier for me to be… *Kanye shrug*
@Sula,
I’m with you. My dad grew up in Ghana during Nkrumah’s and Lumumba’s era. My parent’s had me do my first book report on Marcus Garvey.
@postmodern pwnage,
“wow, no pan-africanists on here?”
I am. My mother use to take me to the UNIA meetings growing up.
@postmodern pwnage,
I’m co-signing this.
It isn’t about what you are called but what you answer to. For far too long has Earth’s oldest man subjugated himself to be identifies by anyone other than himself.
My husband and I have this argument regularly. I am an American identified African as my parents still have their thick accent from East Africa but he is Black american. What I am always trying to make him understand that from and Africans point of view history began far more than 5 or 600 years ago. The people of this world move here and there. That is the story of mankind. Because Africans were brought to this country and they never went back home it doesn’t make them less African. No less than the Carribeans, South Americans, or other Africans dispersed accross the globe. American is a national identity that can be traces back to 1776. African is a racial and cultural identity that can be traced back to the first man. I do not believe they are mutually exclusive. Only in America do so called Americans fight so hard to identify with the whole by denying their true self. What should make our country great is in total acceptance of all identities. It’s shocking that even Black people believe that acceptance comes rejecting a rich cultural past in order to assimilate into a shallow national history. Africans are Africans everywhere.
@Cocoa Chanel,
Cosign 100%. It seems that American Blacks have issues with this. I never see 2520s saying I’m not Irish-American, French-Canadian, Italian-American I’m just American. People say plain American as if they are indigenous to this country. As if this was a blank slate until the Puritans came here. It seems that Black folks go the extra mile to try and distant themselves from Africa. I don’t think anyone but Black folks take the term African-American to mean that you literally come from Africa and just so happen to be born in America.
@Humble_One aka The Market,
You on the money w/ this comment. I’m enjoying each of your comments on this topic.
@Humble_One aka The Market, I agree (some) Black folks seems to be the only ones that feel African American means something deeper but since we are the ones being called African American shouldn’t we decide what that means to us especially when we have actual, real life AFRICANS who have become AMERICANS (citizens)…
We were born here in the US….not in AFRICA!
If I was born in Korea I would be Korean and if I came to the US I would be Korean American…(except if I was Black cause if I was they would still call me Black or African American because we are special like that!)
@Cocoa Chanel,
black don’t mean a rejection of africa….in no way shape or form….
at least in my book
@kingpinenut, Not in my book either…
@Cocoa Chanel,
Excellent points. I don’t think considering yourself as a ‘Black American’ denies African heritage. It does provide a distinction between the two cultures. For example, over the past few weeks/months, I started to notice VERY stark contrast when it came to the reasoning and rationale behind some people’s comments and post on this site, then it hit me: they are NOT Black in the sense that I am (if that makes any sense).
Right now, here in America, there are some ‘African-Americans’ (Eritreans, Ehiopians, etc.) who will not even allow people in their family to even date or marry another ‘African-American’. So the ideal that we are all Africans is true in essence, but is it REALLY?
Bond. BlkBond.
@BlkBond, EXCELLENT POINT! “So the ideal that we are all Africans is true in essence, but is it REALLY?” Nope…not really?
If I said I am African American and I was asked where in Africa am I from…I would have no answer…
@Cocoa Chanel, hmmmm… black like white is a race, which is a reference to your skin tone, no? I’m not denying my African heritage if I refer to myself as such. I mean if the only knowlege of my ancestry is as it relates to my race, how am I denying Africa… duh all black people are of African decent… Africans to my knowlege don’t really even refer to themselves as “African” per se anyway, right?… they’re Nigerian or East African (like you mentioned above)… so what’s so hard to understand? It’s complicated because here you have all these displaced people who are struggling find an identity… the unfortunate, who can’t trace their yesterday. You however can… so how are they “fight(ing) so hard to identify with the whole by denying their true self…” when they technically don’t even know what that “true self” is?
@Yeah…SO?!, YES! Preach on! Tell it!
Please excuse the typos. I wrote this from my iPhone thru the fog of sleep.
First off I’m a frequent reader and a first time commenter. BTW great post Panama.
I can so relate to this post on so many levels!!! Both of my parents are from Ghana, West Africa but I, as well as my brothers, were all born here. Growing up I was always told that I am not an American but Ghanaian. In their eyes being African and being American are two completely different things and the two cannot be mixed as they refer to “African-Americans” here as Black Americans. Which I believe is very understandable think about it…it is a different culture altogether. I think the true question here is what does it mean to be American? I was discussing this post with a friend (also a first generation “African living in America”) and she broke it down like this “I am not an American…I am Ghanaian. Ghana is what is running through my blood not America.” Which is true. We think of ourselves as Ghanaians who just happened to be born in America and that’s it.
@Pure Sunday Born Love,
I kinda understand where you’re comin from.
No, it is not an interesting question. And Michael McWhorter does not have a point. Neither does John McWhorter.
African-American does not refer to people with brown skin. It is an ethnic identifier, not a race identifier. African-Americans are African-descendant Americans who, because of their families’ kidnapping and forced labor, cannot trace their lineage to a specific African state. The hypothetical McWhorter poses is a straw man — native-born or recent-immigrant Africans don’t call themselves African-American — they call themselves Kenyan-American, Nigerian-American, and South African-American, just as we African-Americans would if we knew which African states our families came from.
The position you and John McWhorter advocate has real-world consequences. For instance, most of the ‘black’ students at American ivy league universities are not African-American, but continental, Carribean or other diaspora African-descendants. This means that ivy league universities are satisfying their diversity and affirmative action mandates — policies we put in place specifically to target and directly benefit our communities — by enrolling foreign-born or recent-immigrant ‘blacks,’ without significantly increasing in their African-American student populations.
John McWhorter of course isn’t interested in those sorts of negative outcomes, because they upset his contrarian ‘black’ guy shtick, and because he’s not too bright. But you are, so I hope you’ll give it some more thought before getting sucked in by John McWhorter’s song and dance.
@Anonymous,
African-American does not refer to people with brown skin. It is an ethnic identifier, not a race identifier. African-Americans are African-descendant Americans who, because of their families’ kidnapping and forced labor, cannot trace their lineage to a specific African state. The hypothetical McWhorter poses is a straw man — native-born or recent-immigrant Africans don’t call themselves African-American — they call themselves Kenyan-American, Nigerian-American, and South African-American, just as we African-Americans would if we knew which African states our families came from.
Cosign 100%.
@Anonymous,
UGH! That’s what I’m talking about right there!! That’s that literary dope–Potent prose.
I was thinking about this the other day. I read various blogs and I see the comments when people throw out ‘Ivy League black woman’ and ‘Ivy league black man’, and then I see their comments, and I was like “where the h3ll did YOU grow up?!?! (laughs)” So I started talking to people who went to grad school at some of these schools and I discovered that MOST of the ‘African-Americans’ at these institutions, jobs, etc. are indeed AFRICANS who are born in America.
I started pondering the things you noted: this is a back door way for these institutions to satisfy their diversity/affirmative action mandates, AND they can avoid their white guilt AND they are not confronted with the real issues confronting BLACK Americans–notably, because ‘African’ Americans have a different culture, heritage, and perspective. Since that epiphany, I’ve really been thinking about the domino effects alot of this has been having: the disparity between identity and culture is causing confusion that is making us (Black, Africans, Afr-Amer, Caribbean-Amer, West-Indians, etc.) more divided as a WHOLE. Regardless of our cultural and historical differences, we are still linked through the diaspora. Moreover, to 2520′s, “we’re all the same”. Sigh. They’re still sticking it to us.
Back to the boardroom for a new strategy…
Bond. BlkBond.
@BlkBond, “the disparity between identity and culture is causing confusion that is making us (Black, Africans, Afr-Amer, Caribbean-Amer, West-Indians, etc.) more divided as a WHOLE. Regardless of our cultural and historical differences, we are still linked through the diaspora.”
Well I’m glad someone finally said it… why is it SOOO important to us… What the f’ is in a name? At the end of the day to 2520s we’re all the same- why can’t we see us as the same as well and move forward?
@Yeah…SO?!,
Because there is a sector of ‘us’ who do not believe we are the same.
As noted in my example, among ‘Black people’ their is still discrimination. Whether it’s the Ethiopians who will not allow their daughters to date/marry a Black man from Texas, The fair-skinned creole from New Orleans who will not marry the Black woman/man from Kenner because of his ‘pedigree’ or lack there of, or the Black person who lives in Beverly Hills Adjacent who won’t marry the Black person who grew up in Long Beach.
By and large: we have problems that span the social, economic, cultural, historical, and geographical sphere.
It’s hard to address a problem that affects us all, when some people have no knowledge of the problem, are confused about the issues, have personal angst, brainwashed, etc.
This Dialogue is a start.
Bond.
@BlkBond, that was rhetorical (lol), but I’m glad you answered it anyway… nicely put.
@BlkBond,
Then again this is not behavior specific to Black people in general… It’s a human problem. Classism… Differentiation… Belonging, all of that are conditions the Human race is plagued with.
(I still get your point though.
)
@Anonymous,
“For instance, most of the ‘black’ students at American ivy league universities are not African-American, but continental, Carribean or other diaspora African-descendants. This means that ivy league universities are satisfying their diversity and affirmative action mandates — policies we put in place specifically to target and directly benefit our communities — by enrolling foreign-born or recent-immigrant ‘blacks,’ without significantly increasing in their African-American student populations.”
This is a great point and it’s something I really opened my eyes to back when I was coming out of high school, and even now when I’m about to graduate and looking at grad schools. It ain’t a whole lot of African-Americans like me (using this term with the distinction that you just noted and that I implied with my post above) in my field of mathematics, and most of the minorities that these schools qualify as such are indeed foreign-born or recent immigrants.
I’ve always considered myself Somali first because it is easier to explain. However, I do feel part of the larger black community, it is just that I am also part of the Somali Diaspora and thus have my won set of traditions and values from being Somali. I think for the most part this is how Africans feel. I don’t think African-America is a good phrase. It is too vague and excludes Africans who are not Black, but aren’t they as African as I?
Anyway, race is a construct blah blah blah, I’m sort of sick of the words we use to describe each other. Can’t we all just be Avatars? jk That movie was White Guilt at its finest.
i am very, very interested in reading all the responses…. will sit this one out and just observe, all the way from my sunny perch in johannesburg….
@superwoman,
I am in Joburg too, and I know u lying coz it is cold as hell today- but i hear u on sitting this 1 out.
@superwoman,
Doing the same here… From my cloudy perch in Houston.
i am black.. all day, everyday…
my parents are jamaican…
i of black caribbean descent.. used by the local (uk) government..
i am black british.. also used by the local government and rest of the world when talking about nationality..
heh… in the 70′s and 80′s we knew africans referred to us black caribbean people as slave babies… so afro hyphen anything was never used…
am i a negro.. ?? yes but only when being referred to by scientists…
i don’t know any white person identifying themselves as caucasian on a daily basis…
hmmnnn.. my spell check asks that i write caucasian with a cap c.. whereas negro it doesn’t need a cap n…
but hey.. life is too short to get mad with apple over it…
Nice topic Panama,
I’m a South African living in South Africa and a subscriber of this blog. I don’t think can contribute much to this topic because I don’t really identify with the confusion. I’ve never used the term African American when referring to Black Americans because it just never sounded right.
I can definetely understand where Black Americans are coming from when saying they don’t identify with Africans, so why should you be referred to as such? However, if both my parents are South Africa and I’m raised in the U.S i would be a South African raised in America. I think it all comes down to undertsanding the difference between race and culture.
I think it depends on your family history and really what you know about your ancestry. I personally, know that my maternal family descened from a tribe in Africa…at a family reunion recently a DNA breakdown was down..and now we know the complete ancestral breakdown in my family. Look into your ancestry. I am African-American or Black or whatever the powers that be, want to change into later…but, I am comfortable with Black or African-American both are true so it doesn’t matter to me either way……
I’m “African” if you ask me about my continent. My friend Chuck is “American” if you ask him about his continent.
I’m Senegalese if you ask me my nationality, despite living in the diaspora for years. My friend Chuck is American, despite living in California for his entire life.
We are both black, in skin colour.
He calls himself African-American because he feels the need to identify with a continent he has never been to. He called me African until I corrected him, so now he calls his Senegalese friend. I would never call myself African or Afro-Caribbean or Black-African or Coloured… but I could simply say West African. I would never call him African-American. I’m Senegalese, and he is American. I’m black and he’s black.
My point is… Not sure why this matters… But at the same time I can understand why it does…
@kmplx,
If I understand correctly, you are from Africa, but Chuck was corrected for calling you African?
@Caballeroso, P.E.,
Yes because Africa is a multi-countried continent and being called African isn’t going to cut it. Africans identify themselves by their individual countries and sometimes, even ethnic groups. That’s just how it is. I correct people all the time myself. To me, being lumped in the African category makes me feel the person referring to me as such sees Africa as just one dark, uniform mass. Not so.
@lulu,
Wow! My eyes are really being opened today. To me it’s always been as simple as “you’re from Africa so you’re African”.
@Caballeroso, P.E.,
It might sound trite to you,but it goes down to how people culturally refer to heritage/belonging. Generally, all across the African Continent, your last name ties you to a specific area, a piece of land where presumably your ancestors can be traced back to (as far as the griot du jour can remember at the very least)… So that sense of heritage is really tied to the “Where are you from” dialogue. Whereas an American will easily tell you, “I am from Austin” because let’s say they spent their (own) formative years in Austin… (aka Dubya being from Texas), a “typical” African person(term used to encompass most people hailing from one part of the African continent) will refer you to the land his/her last name comes from. They could have never set foot there, or could have never even heard the language, but in essence that’s how they “identify”…. which in turn can create breakdown in communications between groups that don’t culturally act/behave the same way…
Ask an Irishman if he is English and you’ll see that although the 2 can be lumped together, they rather not.
Just an opinion from a couch anthropologist.
I consider and describe myself as American. While abroad many people question me further and try to assign me a country or a former French colony,but I explain (usually politely, but it annoys me) that I’m American with African origins ages ago, but they’re kind of irrelevant now. I don’t know what country my people were forced from, and as much as I’d like to know it does seem silly that you have Nigerians, Ghanans, etc.who have actual ties to African nations who don’t feel comfortable using the proper and logical name for them.
I wish everyone would just refer to themselves as Americans. Idealistic, perhaps, but still…
Oh and I really like “coloured” actually. My friends hate, it but I don’t understand why. I have melanin. And it’s great. I like my colour. I’d feel silly calling myself Brown since our South Asian and Latino brethren have that…or were given that…
Who doles out these terms anyway?They seem 2000 and late.
You guys have been on a role in 2010, bon travail!
I typically only use the term African-American when I’m writing. And generally it’s because when you type Black, it can only be typed with a lower case b. Something about that has never felt right, thus African American in papers, etc.
That being said I don’t remember ever calling myself African American, though I have been corrected to say so by an Asian lady who I was trying to rent a room from in L.A.. I wanted to slap her for doing that (I am who I say I am and I’m Black, thanks.). But I held back because I really needed a place to stay. But, I digress.
Anyway, my opinion is that this whole “who are we/ what should we call ourselves?” thing is maddening. I mean how many times do we have to redefine who we are or what we call ourselves just so we can satisfy x,y,z? Does adding another racial epithet to our lexicon make us more evolved or more correct in our day-to-day lives? I don’t think so. I think it’s just another way to try to make people who don’t respect us (racists), respect us. Really who cares.
This is what I know…I am African (I am, just because I don’t know my ancestry yet doesn’t mean I’m less than African, this color doesn’t wash off and these roots don’t rot away). I am American (born and raised). I am Black (that’s what I prefer to call myself and I am damn proud of it).
So anything that anyone else has to say about this issue in regards to me can just push off. Case closed.
Oh and Panama HE A 3 (PENDING 4)<—-Congrats!!! You movin' on up in Twunny-Tin (2010)! Yay for you!
@lovin’ me,
FYI, the reason I had to tell the Asian lady I was Black is because she wanted to know what I was mixed with (even though I’m dark skinned). I scratch my head on that to this day.
I was born in Africa, came to America when I was 16 ( I am 32 years old now). I consider myself to be African-American because my personality and who I am was influenced by both cultures ( even though I am a Venti Chi tea latte with a hint of vanilla drinking white girl dating mofo). N-way for some reason I feel irritated when someone calls me black. Maybe because nothing good is associated with the color. Black death, black magic, black market, Black Hole of Calcutta……….
I definitely think it’s time for us all to be able to say we’re “American” Americans.
Smokey Robinson did a great piece on this topic: enjoy, if you haven’t seen it already on DefPoetry Jam.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpdPTN4bmL0&feature=related
@IAB, I’ve seen this before and that’s all well and good until the NYPD (or LAPD) starts shooting down brothers again and we need some language to describe it, because an American getting shot by an American cop “by accident” won’t quite describe the situation, so sometimes the extra labels become useful.
In reality this is only a debate because some white people
and some black peoplethink that we all have to agree on things, because if we don’t them treating us as if we are the same person doesn’t work as well.At the end of the day, I don’t think the term African-American keeps race issues at the forefront, anybody who thinks that’s what keeping race issues alive is living in that post-racial America they keep talking about. I wish someone would give me the coordinates to that place so I could sail on over.
I think I use Black more than anything but I always thought the significance of African-American was an acknowledgment that our direct ancestors are African and most did not come of here of their own volition. Irish people who live here called themselves Irish. Italians (who did come here voluntarily call themselves Italian or Italian-American. And according to the Census Bureau, old black people still write in the term Negro on their Census forms because they prefer it. I don’t really think it matters.
NYPD’s bullets are still going to kill your defenseless, unarmed a$$ as you reach to put money in the Salvation Army bucket whether you are calling yourself American, Black or African-American. I think his point is just another distraction from the real issue(s).
I don’t agree with calling 2nd generation African children, “African-American”, when your mom and dad are from Cuba, no one calls you “Hispanic-American” or “Latin American”, those children are called “Cuban-American”. Me, myself, being from Trinidad & Tobago, will have Trinidadian-American children if they are indeed born here. None of that Caribbean-American, nonsense.
So that leaves the use of the word AA in the states. I don’t see a problem with it, because I think it shows your decent, in Trinidad, we say Afro-Trinidadian, Indo-Trinidadian, Chinese-Trinidadian, it just helps identify where their family came from. We also say, he was of African/Indian/Syrian/Chinese/Mixed decent.
But hey, if someone prefers to be called black, so be it. I correct people when they call be African American, because I’m not! We don’t cook grits, collard greens, mac n cheese….i don’t have ancestors who were slaves here! We eat callaloo, stew chicken, roti and listen to soca. Simple.
@jana.love, *Inserting Humor, No judgement…macaroni & cheese = macaroni pie- same thing, different name, just sayin
@bajanflchick, LMAO!!! pretty much.
@bajanflchick, macaroni pie??? is this a trinidadian dish?
@bajanflchick,
I have learned the hard way that macaroni and cheese DOES NOT = macaroni pie.
my soul is still messed up from that…
and on topic….
I am Bajan. My navel string is buried under the tree in granmummy yard. If the revolution ever comes I am booking the first available flight on BWIA (they still running?) and going HOME.
@Bajan Girl, Do you layer onion and tomato in your macaroni pie? My family is from “The Gap” St. Lawrence, Christ Church..
@jana.love,
I am Guyanese and agree with a good portion of your post. I consider myself Guyanese although I was born here because that is my culture. Both of my grandparents, all four of my grandparents and three of my grandparents’ children were born in South America. We drink sorrel, eat pepper pot and black cake at Christmas, refer to December 31st as Old Year’s Night, and sweep the front of the house with a small straw broom. I most clearly identify with being Guyanese or West Indian in America, not as an African in America. Honestly, if we’re talking about ancestry, all humans originated from Ethiopia, where the first human-like bones were discovered, so shouldn’t we all be called African-American if we’re trying to be correct in this “post-racial” America? What of the white man born in South Africa to parents whose ancestry dates there as far back as the 1700s? Is he not African American as well? I say cut the crap and call me Black. I know you do behind closed doors anyway.
Well, I usually call my self black. While I don’t have anything against being called African American, I just choose not to use that term to describe myself. I am still very proud to be a descendant of Africa, however, I do realize that I am very far removed. ( I would love to find out my specific ancestry via DNA someday.)
Although, in regards to the confusion about native born Africans or second generation Africans being the ones that are truly called African Americans, they usually refer to themselves as the country of which they were born. (i.e. Nigerian-American). So, calling black Americans, African Americans is a way to emphasis our ancestry.
I call myself Black. It’s normally when I’m around 2520 folks does the term African-American even come up.
And “I’m Black ya’ll and I’m Black ya’ll and I’m Blackitty Black, Black Black ya’ll.”
@miss t-lee,
“It’s normally when I’m around 2520 folks”
and i’m gettin tired of that too….Lawd..help me….
Where is Afrolantica?!!
@kingpinenut,
It is funny to watch them squirm though, when you use the term “Black” so freely…lol
@miss t-lee,
last weeks letter to the editor up here sayin:
“america needs to bring back slavery”
couched in all kinds of Biblical bs….
america ain’t much changed from my view…
these mf’s up here squirm when i walk in the joint…lol
@kingpinenut,
Wow @that letter to the editor.
That sounds like some straight Pat Robertson type stuff. Ugh…
@miss t-lee,
AHHH!!!! LMAO!!!! ROFLMAO!!! YO! I went to see that at the movies, we were laughing our a$$es off! People would say that whenever someone asked about race or nationality…hilarious! That’s a slept on classic right there…T-Lee, THATS why I fux with you! =)
Bond.
@BlkBond,
Yep…I think we saw that at the movies too. Dayum I’m old.
Classic nignorance right there!
I find a way to quote that often…and it’s funny.
much love to the folks up in this joint…..
i am b.l.a.c.k……
Praise the Lord for havin made me so….
It would be interesting for a blog that has a majority of white readers to debate this topic as I don’t think many of us really use the term “African American.” The responses would be….interesting to say the least.
Charllize Theron is African American….just saying…..
I’m Black. I don’t know from which village or what hut (’cause we all aren’t descended from kings or queens) my folks came from in Africa.
@Dee, “Charlize Theron is African American” – I was thinking the same thing reading the responses. If African immigrants in America are considered African Americans to this dude (and I assume he’s alluding that all African immigrants living in America are black), then what title would he give white Africans that immigrated to America? I guess “white African-Americans”? Which would be wrong because his definition of “African-American” only includes one type of African immigrants.
Oh, my head hurts.
And you are right, we aren’t all decended from Kings and Queens. Afterall, wasn’t it the weak Africans tricked and sold into the hands of the Europeans? The kings and queens stayed in Africa, no?
@I can’t think of a clever name,
I will NEVER consider Charlize Theron to be AA. I think it’s an insult to actual South Africans who were subjugated by Theron’s ancestors. Just like I had serious issues with my pastor calling himself S. African just because he was born there. No honey, you’re white/Dutch.
Ugh I just got soooo angry right now.
*woosah*
@lulu, Yeah and that’s my whole point with this man’s (the Mc-something guy)argument. He considers African-Americans to be African-born immigrants, but correct if I’m wrong, don’t white people born in Africa consider themselves to be African? If so facto, they would be African-American as well.
I hear your frustration and that’s why I think the whole argument is a wash.
@I can’t think of a clever name,
the thing is, you will never hear Charlize Theron refer to herself as African-American or African. Every white person I know (my pastor included) born in S. Africa make sure people know they are SOUTH African. I have no reason to believe S. African whites will ever want to lump themselves into our category. In fact I secretly believe that white S. African ability to call themselves S. African without blinking an eye is a testament to their feeling of supremacy, esp when youconsider the country’s history.
@lulu,
“I will NEVER consider Charlize Theron to be AA. I think it’s an insult to actual South Africans who were subjugated by Theron’s ancestors. Just like I had serious issues with my pastor calling himself S. African just because he was born there. No honey, you’re white/Dutch.
Ugh I just got soooo angry right now.
*woosah*”
*highfive*
I prefer Black. I like the way it feels and sounds.
Like some said up thread, A-A is used a lot by white folks. A lawyer that works with me was taking a deposition in and described a witness that wasn’t present as an African-American. The deponent an older white man stopped her and said “Sweetie, it’s okay to call them black you know.” She told me later that day that she was always told that “Black” was offensive. I guess she was taught to say African-American to be p.c. or something.
I don’t think this is an issue at all. Maybe it’s different for me because my mother is from the U.S. and my father is from Ghana. I always thought the term African-American was used to describe an American of African descent. I never took African-American to mean that you can go directly to any country in Africa know the culture and fit in like you were raised there. I thought it was that simple? I didn’t know so many people took the term to mean that they literally come from Africa. Do 2520s and other races expect you to make fufu or speak Yoruba just because you are African-American? I don’t think so. IMHO when you say you are just an American you are saying that you identify with WASP culture. Most Black folks have WASP names. Most Blacks don’t look like a Kilpatrick or McCloud. Just saying you are Black or American is saying that you did not exist until you were brought to this country as a slave. So being that America historically(post colonial period) has been a WASP country and Black folks just entered the mainstream within the past 40-45 years it makes sense to me to say you are African-American. Naturally White-Americans see themselves as being just American because this was created for them by them. I don’t think Native-Americans want to be called just Americans. Why? Because they were here before America existed. So them calling themselves just American wouldn’t be accurate because they were here over a 1000 years before 1776.
@Humble_One aka The Market,
Why am I in moderation?
@Humble_One aka The Market,
Because you’re Black? Or is it because you’re African-American? lol
But seriously, though, this is my mentality:
“I never took African-American to mean that you can go directly to any country in Africa know the culture and fit in like you were raised there. I thought it was that simple?”
Since when did you have to be aware exactly where you’re from in order to be from there? It’s like covering my eyes and saying I don’t see the sky, but the mofo is still up there, right? lol And futhermore, the reason why most of us don’t know exactly where we’re from isn’t our fault. Sure there are ways to find out, but it’s not easy nor cheap. And it’s a shame that we have to go all out of our way to find out in the first place.
Gotta love Smokey Robinson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgDvuuaQ2VQ&feature=related
I’ll keep this short.
When I want to get snooty (which happens from time to time) I will say, “I’m a black american of african descent.” Pretty much settles it all up.
All this arent’ we just americans BS is a very sly hustle. First, we are told in very subtle and not-so subtle ways how un-american we are. Then when we start saying it, the next hustle is why can’t we all be americans.
I could have gotten down with the I’m just an american business but america has showed me time and again through history that they are not ready to accept me as an american. It’s kind of depressing. I’m a citizen but not welcome.
@Stank-0,
“All this arent’ we just americans BS is a very sly hustle”
That we’re just american isht gives me the dry heaves.
@Stank-0,
“I could have gotten down with the I’m just an american business but america has showed me time and again through history that they are not ready to accept me as an american. It’s kind of depressing. I’m a citizen but not welcome.”
amen
@Stank-0,
“I could have gotten down with the I’m just an american business but america has showed me time and again through history that they are not ready to accept me as an american. It’s kind of depressing. I’m a citizen but not welcome.”
I feel you on your sentiment, but I proudly proclaim myself as an American. The fact that fellow Americans do not accept me as such does not and will not define me. Some women say black men ain’t shit…that, too, does not define me. I am a black man of quality…the fact that some women deem this as oxy-moronic does not make me renounce being a black man.
@Stank-0,
“All this arent’ we just americans BS is a very sly hustle. First, we are told in very subtle and not-so subtle ways how un-american we are. Then when we start saying it, the next hustle is why can’t we all be americans. ”
Word. Um, we got here because someone came from somewhere ELSE. I mean, why can’t folks claim their heritage? Why does it bother other people? I mean, these same people talmbout “We just American” are the same ones blowing bagpipes at an Irish parade. #hoodwinkFAIL You ain’t foolin’ nobody.
@Stank-0,
I very much agree!
In America, we’re as super obsessed with labels as we are with Labels as we are with Political Correctness. As a people, we’re just much more comfortable when we feel like we’ve defined a thing… but when you try to define, you confine within a strict set of parameters; whether it be a concept, trend or lifestyle. Like how many people take issue when someone says they are bi-sexual rather than homosexual? Why do we really care if they ain’t sexy to us in the first place?
Who are we to approve of it and since when can’t we affix the label of our own choosing IF one is absolutely necessary? I’m Black cuz it’s the simplest, quickiest way to reference my race – the term African American makes folks whose ancestors probably owned mine feel they’re giving a measure of respect in lieu of our 40 Acres and a mule. But we won’t ever satisfy all. People I know will ask me if I’m going home for the Holidays and if I start waxing poetic about NYC where I was born & raised, they’ll say they meant SC or MS. And I’m confused cuz that’s where my parents are from and has nothing to do with my concept of home. Yet they’ll debate me and try to force their concept of home onto me. The more I think about it, I may begin to identify myself as a Bronx-Black on bios, applications, the Census…
The purpose of the “African” American moniker is not related to whether or not you’ve ever eaten fufu (or even know what it is!), if you have two left feet on the dance floor or if couldn’t point out a djembe drum if your kid’s life depended on it. The purpose of calling black folks in America “African American” was to affirm that Africa and Africanness was not something to be ashamed of or to run away from. Surely you remember when to call someone “African” was the equivalent of talking about somebody’s momma – it was considered the ultimate insult. To this day, kids still refer to peers as “African booty scratchers” (whatever the hell that is) when they really want to get under their skin. Whatever one decides that they want to be called – hyphenated or not – is ultimately irrelevant. However, when someone runs like a bat out of hell from his or her ancestry because of lies and misinformation fueled by a sick mixture of Rush Limbaugh broadcasts, National Geographic pictures and bad Tarzan movies, that’s where the real problem lies.
@Paula White Bradley,
This is what I am saying. When I get called African-American I don’t think that implies that I speak a language native to an African country or practice the customs of African countries. I always took it too mean that I am an American of African descent.
@Paula White Bradley,
Excellent point!
Hell if I know!!
My maternal great-grandfather is Portuguese, he moved to Brazil, then to Guyana and married my great grandmother who was born to a buck mother and dougla father, my grandmother married (and buried) 3 men, one dougla, two black (my grandfather was black)..so my mother is alla dat what I just said.
My (American) paternal great grandfather was born to a white man (with native american descent-confirmed) and a black woman in Alachua, he met and married a black woman, they had my grandfather (blue) who married my grandmother(1st marriage) (great grand mother was born a slave) who was born to a slave woman(white father, black mother) and they had my daddy who is alla dat what I just said.
…now after reading all of that, your @zz is just as confused as I am
@Smiley Face,
hey…you can trace your fam…..which is all good…
oh yeah…and you BLACK!
@kingpinenut,
so they say…so they say, lol..I just smile and nod
@Smiley Face,
love it….lol
Hmmmm….let’s see. I was born in America, therefore I’m an American….an American who happens to be Black. I’ve been asked “What are you?” plenty of times. People mistaking my heritage to be anything from Dominican to Trini (although I’m not sure why). When I’m trying to convince them of my “what” I am…I have to tell them “I’m plain Black” for them to get my point. I don’t say African American because I think that will further confuse the situation.
I do believe there is a disconnect between Blacks and African Americans. However I try not to get caught up in “lables” because I think it’s just another way for 2520′s to keep people divided and hung up on “who’s better”.
@La Bakir, LMAO@ “plain black “- I co-sign 100% , like you have to pick a flavor of one…for them to understand…like you can’t bring all of you to the table…hmmm too many choices, too much to think about, they just can’t compute, as if their tiny narrow minds will explode …LAWDHAVUSMERCY!
@bajanflchick,
for real! And I’m not one of those people to be like “Oh, my great grandmother was half native american and half white”. However true or false that may be…I just think it’s unecessary. Almost anyone born in America who isn’t 1st generation “something” is bound to have blood of different races, cultures, and ethnicities running through their veins.
@La Bakir, key word though for real from the 2520 perspective “white”- you better get in in there, or *crickets*
@bajanflchick, LMAO!
@La Bakir,
This is true for Africa as well. If you look at my family you’ll see people of all skin tones, hair textures, etc. In Africa there is a lot of racial diversity. Lots of biracial and multiracial people. Yet another reason why I think the term “Black” is confusing because I think its supposed to imply that you have dark skin and also that you are of African descent but you can be of African descent and not be anything close to “black”
I consider myself black for many of the reasons stated in the article.
Truth be told, a white dude born in South Africa could be considered African-American if he were to seek citizenship in the US. And he could probably benefit from affirmative action policies that favor African-Americans here in the US.
Wow. This topic makes me want to do some research, but for now a few comments:
1. Black people or people of African descent (for lack of better words) have been inhabitants of the Americas-and every other continent- before America was inhabited by people of European descent and those kidnapped from Africa and displaced for the purpose of slavery. The problem is that many Black people/people of African descent living in the Americas/Caribbean/West Indies etc.have accepted that they are descendants of slaves, which is untrue and highly unlikely. The numbers don’t add up when placed into the context of world history.
*Sidebar: I’ve always wondered why “African American” history begins with slavery. That alone should tell us that from the time a child enters school they’re programmed to believe that they are inferior. Every year the same message is reaffirmed in their minds. Is it any wonder why some children just check out and seem to give up on education altogether?*
2. The words white and black used to define race of people historically have political meaning and were not used to describe skin colour.
3. Before the continent of Africa was sectioned off into various regions/countries/states by colonialists and renamed, what did the people or natives call themselves?
4. The names we use to describe or label ourselves today are often terms that do not come from our ancestors. So again, for those of us who are interested enough to do the research perhaps an investigation is necessary.
“If I didn’t define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people’s fantasies for me and eaten alive. ” Audre Lorde
Know Thyself.
Stop allowing other people (especially those who have historically sought out to oppress people who look like you worldwide) to tell you who and what you are, find out for yourself and truly know who and what you are. Awaken sleeping giants.
@Safera, They called themselves Bantu ( or a variation thereof ) which meant people. They called the white people Vasina Mabvi , meaning those without knees. They were apparently color blind and the only difference they noticed was that they couldn’t see their knees because they wore pants.
@Safera, word!
@Safera,
3. Before the continent of Africa was sectioned off into various regions/countries/states by colonialists and renamed, what did the people or natives call themselves?
whatever their ethnic groupings were then.
@lulu, True.
I guess my point is that names or titles given to various tribes can come from a person (perhaps a leader), an important incident that might signal a new era or cycle or a characteristic specific to group A. The further back one can trace a tribe the more likely the name will be different based on a specific point in time.
It is my opinion that the further back one goes the closer one gets to the source. That is to say that what many of us may call ourselves today or (for the sake of this topic) what we were and are called by others the more we relinquish our rights as indigenous people of the earth.
Why do you think the names continue to change? Don’t forget words can have several meanings depending on the context in which they are used. By accepting names that disconnect you from your ancestral lineage you give up your HUMAN rights and settle for CIVIL rights. Just an observation.
Know Thyself
@lulu,
Or even sub-ethnic group/ clan sometimes.
I’m black. That’s what I call myself and that’s how I write it. No capitalization. It’s just a color. White people are white. We’re all Americans with a capital “A”
I do catch myself being interchangeable with black and African-American around the 2520s at the job cause THEY don’t use black. They always take a deep breath and say African-American with some sort of weird reverence. Lol!
I don’t mind being called African-American, but 1) that ish is too long to say! and 2) I’ve never been to Africa and don’t know any family members that came from there.
That’s why black is good enough for me.
@Ash,
You know, I wrote this long diatribe that I was going to post (and still might since I went through all the trouble to write) that essentially boiled down to exactly what you just, so succinctly, described. For now I’ll just suffice it to say, COSIGN!
@Ash,
“I’m black. That’s what I call myself and that’s how I write it. No capitalization. It’s just a color. White people are white. We’re all Americans with a capital “A””
Ya know, ever since taking Sociology where our professor stressed that we capitalize it, I’ve been in the habit of doing so. It’s not as big a deal to me as it was to her and I may switch up from time to time unconsciously, but I understand why. Because, it really isn’t just a color. Words have many definitions and Black and White are two that have more than one.
@Ash,
Low-key, I’ve always intentionally capitalized Black and not white.
@P.,
I know a whole bunch of people who do that. I kinda love it. lol
There is some truth to this, but why bother make further divisions among us? My asian and indian friends born here don’t bother to distinguish between themselves and the FOBs. I think we should be careful.
I never embraced that term African American, I remeber I was in the 10th or 11th grade whern that came about and did not like it, my thing was why aren’t caucasion americans called Euro Americans etc etc etc….I’ve been black and gone be black, til I goes up out ‘chere!
I want McWhorter to list the ways a Black Man from Jacksonville and a white man from Tucson are the same while the same brother from “Duuuu-Vall” is different than a brother from Africa.
Then again, he seems to be thinking that “Africa” is all the same across the continent.
Yea yea, he’s right.
But he misses an important, critical, point – that unlike the “West Indies”, African-descended slaves in the United States were stripped of their African identity and resocialized to loathe all things African/black/colored (however the hell you put it). So African-American was put forth as a way to reclaim – however remote, small, insubstantial – something that was taken from us.
Sure it’s problematic. But that initial reasoning for the term is critical. It reminds us that who we are is about the unique combination of colonization and resistance.
Other minor quibbles – so much of our dancing and food is African derived, even if its generations removed. And some of black vernacular’s idiosyncracies can be traced back to various African languages. Again – it’s a remote, and for some intangible connection, but it’s there. And keeping that in mind is a collective resistance and remembrance of our cultural rape.
@Tyler,
“But he misses an important, critical, point – that unlike the “West Indies”, African-descended slaves in the United States were stripped of their African identity and resocialized to loathe all things African/black/colored (however the hell you put it). So African-American was put forth as a way to reclaim – however remote, small, insubstantial – something that was taken from us.
Sure it’s problematic. But that initial reasoning for the term is critical. It reminds us that who we are is about the unique combination of colonization and resistance. ”
This is a good point.
@Tyler,
“Other minor quibbles – so much of our dancing and food is African derived, even if its generations removed. And some of black vernacular’s idiosyncracies can be traced back to various African languages. Again – it’s a remote, and for some intangible connection, but it’s there.”
good points…
I’ve always referred to myself as black and only African-American or Black (Non-Hispanic) on official forms.
I always say “Don’t get drunk and pass out around white people.” and not “Don’t get drunk and pass out around Irish people.” because I don’t need to describe their decent because I’m implying they are american and just of another colour. Only when they are actually from another country and it’s obvious (style of dress, accent, etc) they aren’t “fully American”.
“Truth be told, I pretty much just call myself Black anyway and I think I’ve heard more white people say African-American than I’ve heard Black folks say it.”
Same here.
“I have African friends who’ve alluded to being fearful of American Blacks (we’ve talked about this before on VSB).”
This reminds me of a recent time when my Tanzanian coworker/friend and I went to a little corner store to play lottery after lunch. He was a frequent customer there and it was headed by an Egyptian man. Now, both of them are talking and chatting it up on friendly terms when they get to talking about where each are from. They tell each other and the Egyptian proceeds to say, “Oh, yeah, Tanzanians…they are very nice. So and so are very nice. African-Americans, though? *thumbs down*”. Now keep in mind, he had no idea what I was, as I was standing right there. And my Tanzanian buddy was like, “Oh, no! Not all of them!” and then points towards me all, “Um, she is Black, homie”. The Egyptian’s eyes buck like a Guinness World Record holder. I just smile and chuckle. But inside, I was cracking up. Awkward as hell for him. I don’t take it personal, though. I wonder, though, what exactly he thought I was it terms of race/ethnicity.
@Cheekie, I can relate to this. I have encountered many Africans who think they’re are better than “us”. I’m still not 100% sure as to why, but what I gather is that because they are of “pure” blood it makes them better than black people.
@La Bakir, its usually not because we feel we are pure blood, its mostly the stereotypes that we are fed. Its def not the pure blood thing. Either way, it is a messed up way of thinking.
Africans hate it when people generalize and say stuff to us based on stereotypes yet some of us turn around and do the same thing to Blacks, whites, Asians etc.
Also to add to this:
“Truth be told, I pretty much just call myself Black anyway and I think I’ve heard more white people say African-American than I’ve heard Black folks say it.”
I always get a chuckle whenever a 2520 does that *pause* when referring to Blacks/African-Americans/Whathaveyou. It’s always, “Yes, and *pause* African-Americans” blah blah blah blah”. It’s always like a split-second of thinking. A lot of them even say “Bla–” then switch to African-American right quick. 2520 Racial Uncomfyness is a motha. lmfao
@Cheekie, always get a chuckle whenever a 2520 does that *pause* when referring to Blacks/African-Americans/Whathaveyou
I like it even more when you get the *pause-intent stare* what do you prefer to be called ? talk about uncomfy….I HEART this moment
@bajanflchick,
I get this evil kind of glee when they squirm. Hell, that got all kinds of privileges. THAT is mine!
@Cheekie,
If I was that Egyptian guy I wouldn’t have punked out, believe that. LOL
@The Hallway/TheSunk,
I wouldn’t have cared. lol
My feathers don’t rise off ish like that (only if you get TRULY personal…that mofo was generalizing). He was just coming from an ignorant place. *kanyeshrug* Hell, I think it was because he said it so matter-of-factly and in a nice tone that I didn’t snap on him.
@Cheekie,
I got a couple good Eritrean & Ethiopian friends and we always make jokes about how Blacks are perceived to them.
We also call them Habs and they call us Afams. The looks we get from some people are pretty funny.
Interesting article & even more interesting comments. I actually HATE to be called BLACK. Black is a color not a race!! Where exactly is the country or island of BLACK?? To me Black is a generic term & shows lack of culture, heritage and an actual origin. To wear that title as a badge of honor bothers me. (BUT THAT’s JUST ME!!)
I consider myself Afrikan born in America. I connect with both and have ACTUALLY taken the time to research and connect with both. Just because I wasnt born in Afrika doesnt mean that I am not Afrikan.
I think that there needs to be dialogue and understand between Afrikans born in the US & Afrikans from the continent. To me articles like this are written to divide us even more. I am an American who cooks Afrikan food, speak Afrikan languages, dances, etc. because I TOOK THE TIME TO MAKE THE CONNECTION and I am not ashamed of being Afrikan…NOT BLACK!!!
@Yaa, where is Afrika?
Lol, I was just trying to be a jerk.
@Yaa, I undertsand where your coming from because although Im ritish born and bred I always refer to myself as ghanaian as on account of my parents and the fact that I once lived there.
Much time and debate could be eliminated by understanding the difference between the two terms. The term African-American refers to ethnicity which is based on nationality, culture and language. Black, on the other hand, refers to race and is inclusive of all people originating in Africa who share similar physical characteristics regardless of nationality, culture or language.
hmmm, this post made me think. I refer to myself as Black & Thai. I use the term African-American on offical forms, work related reports, or when talking to people who seem like they can’t handle the term black. I rarely say I’m Asian, and never say I’m Asian-American. I think the latter is because my mom is straight from Thailand. If my dad was born and grew up somewhere in Africa, I would be more inclined to say I am from said country. It’s early for me, I don’t know if any of this made sense so I’m just going to stop now…
Black just has one syllable so I roll with that…
However, calling immigrants from Africa “African-Americans” may be just as disrespectful to them for one because we had the name first and they don’t always like to be identified with us and two because they come from actual countries and like Italian-Americans, Greek-Americans, Indian-Americans, and Chinese-Americans, it would be more consistent to identify them with the actual country they are from and calling them “African-American” kind of implies that Africa is a country and there are already too many Americans and Europeans that make that mistake.
@Omar,
“However, calling immigrants from Africa “African-Americans” may be just as disrespectful to them…because they come from actual countries…”
I don’t see that them coming from specific countries in Africa make them any less African than my being from Mississippi makes me any less American. I can’t see myself going to Italy and refering to myself as a Mississippian instead of as an American.
@Caballeroso, P.E.,
You are comparing a state to a country. When you call someone “African,” you just throw all of these nationalities and countries together into a giant continent. No, it doesn’t make them any less African, but I can still see how it’s disrespectful. It’d be like lumping Canadians, Americans, Mexicans, Cubans, Jamaicans, et al. as “North Americans,” which nobody does.
@P.,
I follow what you are saying and actually anticipated a such a response. I recognize that my example used states instead of countries, but the intent was merely to show that “B” being a subset of “A” does not preclude “A” from being relevant. I fail to see where referring to a person’s place of origin is disrespectful if the person is truly of or from that place.
I am each: Earthling, North-American, American, Texan (now), and Houstonian. I claim each and consider neither to be offensive or disrespectful, but I do recognize that many are not as liberal as I am.
@Caballeroso, P.E.,
Yes, you are all of those things, but the intent of my statement was to show that throwing somebody in a giant pile with tons of other people shows no reverence for their heritage, which some could take offense to.
Consider this hypothetical conversation:
“Caballeroso, where in Texas are you from? Dallas? San Antonio?”
“No, Houston.”
“Oh, well whatever. You’re all Texans anyway.”
It’s been my understanding that this is essentially how some people feel by being simply called “African.” It’s as if you have no respect for where they’re actually from, and think they’re the same as everyone else.
@P.,
cosign
@Caballeroso, P.E.,
Yeah, what P. said…
Considering a state the same as a country just makes the statement that Africa is a country which is a little disrespectful.
For the record I WILL go to other countries and tell people I’m from DC, but I’m different.
@Omar,
Upon additional review of your post, I think that further clarification is warranted. If your discussion intends to say that it is disrespectful to call an African who is simply in America an African-American, then yes, I agree with you. However, if the African becomes a citizen of America through naturalization, I do not consider it disrespectful to call them African-American. If I find that that person is offended by me referring to them in such a manner, I would cease using that reference to them when he/she is present.
@Caballeroso, P.E.,
Mississippi-A state (region of a country that is part of a continent)
Africa-A continent (consisting of multiple countries each consisting of multiple regions called states).
@IsayAmerican,
I follow what you are saying and actually anticipated a such a response. I recognize that my example used states instead of countries, but the intent was merely to show that “B” being a subset of “A” does not preclude “A” from being relevant.
@Caballeroso, P.E.,
Yes, but relevance does not equate to definitiveness and the definitive factor seems to be the country, with the exception of those who don’t have, know or acknowledge a previous country, like many black folks.
Also in reference to disrespect it is only a reference to the part of the post where McWhorter suggests that calling ourselves “African-American” would be disrespectful to Africans. The ones who are that particular would likely also be offended by being called “African-American”.
However, I don’t mind when someone says I am African…you only see Africans getting upset when an American (unfortunately, most others realize that Africa is a continent) speaks of Africa as if it is one country or large village…”Hey I went to Africa last month and want to learn Swahili, can you teach me? or do you know Esther Mirichu, she was one of the Safari guides?”
@IsayAmerican,
“or do you know Esther Mirichu, she was one of the Safari guides?”
I quit you!
@Omar,
However, calling immigrants from Africa “African-Americans” may be just as disrespectful to them for one because we had the name first and they don’t always like to be identified with us and two because they come from actual countries
IDK about this. I mean, in Africa, sure if asked where I’m from, I’ll say “Kenya” but outside? I go with Africa- East Africa -Kenya. At times you have to drill down data for guys. Plus, maybe we (in Kenya at least) call all Caucasians “Europeans” even though you’re from Alabama or Australia. We don’t do that Moldovan/ Italian nuance.
My neighbour at home is a Chinese man, he has Chinese children who are considered and called Ghanaian. They were born, raised in Ghana and speak one of our native languages and have an accent just like mine. I have other friends of North American descent who live (born and raised) in Nigeria and are called Nigerians or the ones whose parents settled in Tz and are called Tanzanian. They might have
I call every American…American and when I want to describe a Black person, I say “He/She is an American that is black”. I stopped using Afro-American because a friend of mine gave me a lecture on how she would rather be called Black. My White colleague (who identifies her self every time as an American with Irish and German roots…everytime) gets mad at me when I say an “American that is Black”, she says I am naive but I get a pass because I am international…but I also call her an American that is white.
The long and short of it is, I will call you whatever you want to be called. Caublanasian, Blanasian, Caubla, Indo-Black, Black American, Afro American, American that is black, American with traits of African heritage…you tell me, I’ll call refer to you as you prefer…it all makes me dizzy.
I’m not Black-Ghanaian, I am simply Ghanaian and so is everyone else that chooses to identify with Ghana (by birth, residence etc). The rule is you go with either where you were born/where you hold a passport to or where your Father was born (this is more of an African thing…hence the whole Barack Obama is Kenyan-American/Africann American/ Caubla).
I’m African but I always thought African-American was a PC way of saying someone was Black. Kinda like saying Caucasian rather than White. Never really got deeper into it than this.
At some point during my college years I had the epiphany that, “wait a minute… so why should I call myself African-American…I’ve never been to Africa and neither have my parents? I was born in America; therefore, I’m an American (with a great and permanent tan).” That brought about my next quandary of “ok, if I’ve resolved that I’m not African-American…then what am I? How shall I refer to myself?” Sure the term black was a popular substitute, but being the literal person that I tend to be, I rationalized that I’m actually more of a brown than black. I began to embrace Negro, except that, because I like to know the definition of the words I use, I soon learned that Negro is simply black but in Spanish. Alas, I settled upon either black or Negro. Generally I regard myself as race = human, culture/nationality = American. On documentation, African-American, Black, Negro, American, whatever is most appropiate based on how the application is worded. Besides, all this classification stuff simply serves as a wedge to further separate people.
Side note: It’s interesting how “others” are seemingly obsessed with knowing their heritage and always want to talk about how they traced their lineage all the way back to someone in Germany, Ireland, etc. It’s funny how they tend to get quiet when I start participating in the conversation with talk about ancestors being sold at auction and slave ships and what not.
Site note 2: I have a friend and former co-worker who is 6′-4″ with blonde hair, blue eyes, and pale skin. He was born in South Africa, grew up in Germany, and is now an American citizen. It doesn’t get any more African-American than that, yet he looks nothing like me. But, if put in a line-up with said friend, I would be the one singled out as African-American…tho having no direct ties to the motherland. Go figure.
Names and Forms: Like words written, isn’t it the meaning that is important. Who can teach meaning? Either you get it or you don’t.
“Suppose you and I have had an argument. If you have beaten me instead of my beating you, then are you necessarily right and am I necessarily wrong? If I have beaten you instead of your beating me, then am I necessarily right and are you necessarily wrong? Is one of us right and the other wrong? Are both of us right or are both of us wrong? If you and I don’t know the answer, then other people are bound to be even more in the dark. Whom shall we get to decide what is right? Shall we get someone who agrees with you to decide? But if he already agrees with you, how can he decide fairly? Shall we get someone who agrees with me? But if he already agrees with me, how can he decide? Shall we get someone who disagrees with both of us? But if he already disagrees with both of us, how can he decide? Shall we get someone who agrees with both of us? But if he already agrees with both of us, how can he decide? Obviously, then, neither you nor I nor anyone else can decide for each other. Shall we wait for still another person?
@The Unnameable,
No need to wait. I’m right.
It’s like saying you’re “single” on your tax return or life insurance policy even though you’ve been living with someone for 4 years, have 6 kids, and are engaged. Technically, it’s not accurate (“unmarried?”), but it serves the purpose of slotting you in a group. A smaller proportion of us are truly “black (the color)” than are “African-American,” and I don’t think Indian people, some hispanic people, and even some Thai people would be very happy if we coopted “brown.” So “African-American,”
“those-predisposed-to-have-sickle-cell,” whatever, it’s all bs.
Anyway, I don’t see black or white, just shades of grey.
@An Island,
Brown kind of makes me mad becuase with the exception of a lot of Indians most of those other folks aren’t brown they just aren’t pale.
Very nice write-up, and way to provoke thought.
The truth is: African American does not denote race – it’s more nationalist than anything else. We’re all Americans; but iono, maybe by the luck of the draw, or us being the minority race, we feel the need for acceptance and thus our acceptance of the term. My question is when was there this massive vote-in among us Negroes on the term?
Isn’t it sad that we’re the only ethnic group that evolves ever so often? Speaking of which, maybe in the next 40yrs they’ll just start calling us mutants, and make a movie about us nd call it “X-men vs. Avatar”….
There is only one race – a human race. We are all from different ethnic groups.
A friend of mine asked me to head a BSA group and to get out of it I told him I wasn’t black, I was African-Jamaican and until they changed the group to the minority student association I wouldn’t join. The reality is I could care less, just don’t call me a nig or coloured.
The pregnant pause, that some people find humorous, that white people give when identifying blacks annoys me. I’m just saying.
All in all, as mentioned in other comments, the labels are divisive. In this world (eff America) there are two labels – rich and poor and until the proletariat realizes this we will forever be black, white, light-skinned, dark-skinned, pigmy and any other so called racial group you can think of.
@I can’t think of a clever name,
“There is only one race – a human race.”
that’s what I put on my college applications. i got such a kick out of it. esp. if you hear my name. my last name sounds japanese (ppl have told me b4 they met me, they were expecting a japanese girl). if you google my first name, a victoria secret model pops up.
the whole thing just tickles my funny bone for real.
@lulu,
I have a full Ghanaian name and people think that I am Japanese before they see me also.
My iPhone won’t let me reply. But Blk Bond made a point about Africans not wanting their children to marry Black Americans.
Americans have a long way before they will understand Africa. A couple points, Africa is a continent not a country. That being said parents want their children to marry someone from their country. Hopefully even from their tribe or region. And even better if they marry a child of a family friend. My east African parents would cringe if I married a West African particularly a Nigerian. But they wouldn’t disown me. It’s the same with marrying a Black American it usually isn’t as big a deal as it’s made out to be.
Secondly we are all African. Africanness is not a singular identity such as say being Chinese. Africa is made up of many tribes, languages, and customs. This is why Black Americans needn’t concern themselves with whether or not they can “trace” their families back to Africa. The black American story involves America but doesn’t have ti begin or end there. The two identities aren’t mutually exclusive. Look at Jewish people ( or any other people really, Blacks are the only ones who shun the idea of belonging to any place other than the land the slave masters and colonialists assigned to them), while they are dispersed all accross the globe they still identify with one another and even formed a country behind it ( I know that’s kind of bad example because i don’t mean to justify the Israeli bogarde of Palestinian land…)
@Cocoa Chanel, lol at Parents cringing at you marrying a Nigerian. We are some good people though. Its unfortunate that the ugly stereotype/divide runs both ways, I hope one day it can be wiped away.
The African parents not wanting their children to marry Blacks (as majority on this site said they would prefer to be called) or Americans in general is as a result of what they see in the media and news. I was well traveled as a child(to everywhere but the Americas) but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t believe it some. We get BET and channel O shows all the music videos, and Sky (same psychos that only show the African Continent and its inhabitants as hungry people) that all portray Black people in a horrible horrible light save for shows like the Cosbys and Different World. Unfortunately, the stereotype is still existent.
@Cocoa Chanel,
And even better if they marry a child of a family friend.
I winced when I read this.
Because it’s true.
Do other groups have such issues with being Indian-American, Asian-American, etc.? Sometimes I think part of this is Black Americans trying to separate themselves from Africa. Maybe Black folks still see being called African as negative? IDK. It’s just weird to call yourself a color or a desecendant from a 230+ year old country that historically you are not from. It sounds crazy to me to say “I am from Black beacuse I am a descendant of Black”. If African-Americans or Blacks are just American what are Native-Americans? Are they just Americans too? What were they before 1776? Before 1868 Black folks weren’t citizens here so what were they before then?
@Humble_One aka The Market,
Before 1868, Black folks knew where they were from. Like I said in my comment above, I don’t know where the hell in Africa I’m from. I’m not ashamed of it, I don’t try to downplay it, I certainly don’t think it’s negative, and it’s something I’m very interested in, but me being “African-American” doesn’t do anything for me because it doesn’t identify me beyond what I or anyone else can already tell.
Most people from the other ethnic groups you mentioned know where they’re from. I’ve never met an Asian person or a Hispanic person who didn’t know what country they’re from. As far as I know, Americans are the only ones who refer to them as [broad term]-American. Most of them will just be like “I’m Japanese” or whatever they are.
@Humble_One aka The Market,
I do think there are a lot of “Black Americans” who are for some reason ashamed of their African heritage and don’t want to accept that they did in fact come from Africa. But this is not true for everyone who prefers to be called Black over African-American.
Interestingly, the we have identified ourselves has evolved throughout the years.
In the days of DuBois and Booker T, we were colored or negro (see: NAACP). Then we identified ourselves as negro all the way up to, and during, the Civil Rights Movement. Even in Dr. King’s dream speech, he uses “black” only 4 times and Negro 10+ times. The term “black” then emerged as a sign of pride and power. Ironically, it was Jesse Jackson who pushed the term “African-American” to be used.
It’s really an issue of what is politically correct. It seems to me that we have defined what we like to be called, and clear people have just rolled with it in an effort to be politically correct.
What Panama was talking about is interesting though. The number of people, recently, who don’t identify themselves as simply “black,” has increased a lot. So many people refer to themselves as black & guyanese… black and irish… dominican (with dark skin a.k.a. black) blackanese… carribbean blacks… the list goes on. Just read a King or Smooth mag… the average video vixen is mixed with more races than Kim Khardashian’s unborn child.
@SouthernCharm,
*the way we have…
@SouthernCharm,
I just smile and nod…
…in a sense it’s “I am what you say I am, whatever makes you more comfortable”, you’re not really interested anyway lol.
I’m going to have to disagree with this point. I am the child of Haitian immigrants who lived in REAL POVERTY, so it’s not all peaches and cream for Blacks who come form other countries. That’s first. Second, when white people see me they don’t say, oh there’s a Haitian-Black person; they say/see a Black woman. The end. The discrimination in housing, loans, retail stores, education is the same. So just because we may come from a different place doesn’t mean that we have it any easier or that we don’t contribute to diversity in schools, the work place or wherever. Black is black. You think Billy Bob cares that someone is from Nigeria, or Jamaica, or Virginia, nope. It’s all the same to them.
Also wanted to share this link which I think does a good job of summing this whole thing up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgDvuuaQ2VQ
I call myself an Afrikan in America. I’ve even done the research to determine my ancestry which is Fon and Asante. I refuse to call myself an African-American, even though I was born and raised in the US, b/c i feel more Afrikan than American. Adding American determines locality, but it doesn’t determine culture. Black is a color, not a culture. If you travel to Afrika, you will actually find that culturally, we have more similarities than differences and that Africans in America have retained aspects of Afrikan culture.
Black American. I will not ever be accepted as African and never 100% will be considered “just an american.” I say Black which encompasses all of the hues. I know for a fact that Africans who come here don’t necessarily think too fondly of me and that’s where the differences begin. It’s more of a culture thing than it is color.
@CPT Callamity,
“I know for a fact that Africans who come here don’t necessarily think too fondly of me and that’s where the differences begin”
There is this unnecessary tension between both parties. Could it be that both parties are expecting to immediately be able to identify with each other culturally or both parties are looking at each other from a horrible stereotype influenced stand point? I don’t know. It is sad that I could not gain membership to the BSA at my school because I was not considered Black or the BSA did not want to do joint events with the African and Caribbean Students Association. It worried me for a second til I found out that it was not uncommon. We need to quit with the madness.
@Anonymous Deux,
I actually saw the exact opposite of what you saw at school. Everyone who was part of the BSU were also members of other orgs as well. There was indeed a melting pot type thing going on and there wasn’t too much friction. I can only speak on younger people from diaspora. I think they are a lot more mutable when it comes to relating. It also depends on when they got here and what their families told them. In some cases I have met Africans from places like Sierra Leone and Ghana who were very pleasant and didn’t hold a superiority complex over me which made them very easy to get along with. In other cases, I’ve dealt with people from Nigeria (not saying all ya’ll are bad so chill) and Eastern Africa who acted as though they were so above me. The clashing of culture moreso than skin color is where the tension is created. I saw this again when I actually taught African/Caribbean students of immigrant parents.
I accept all that accept me. That song Wale has called “Shades” is the perfect example of the dialogue that should be taking place amongst BLACK americans.
It does make sense for African Americans to be African Americans and it does matter. Yes, we are African American, just like white people in Africa are Africans (whether one likes it or not or agrees). Just like Chinese and Indian and white people in Jamaica are Jamaicans, with the same accent, speak patois, and eat the same dishes. No, I may not have the same experience as an African immigrant, but me referring to myself as African American is in no way disrespectful to them and totally respectful to my ancestors. I do a disservice to my people whose shoulders I stand on to do otherwise. Especially since American legal documents that founded this country didn’t even consider me a person.
There is such a thing as ‘genetic memory’ and we may pass down heritage knowingly, in secret, and through genetic memory. I’ve done a bit of research on a particular topic and although Black Americans and Africans from the continent may have some differences we sure have a lot of similarities that are not from America or another culture. Truthfully speaking, Africans in Africa share differences whether it be tribal, neighborhood wide, city-wide, regional, country, etc. So if Nigerians and people from Cameroon can be different from one another and they neighbor each other, it is absurd to think African Americans will not have some differences and a huge ocean divides us.
I can also argue that many elements of American culture are based on Black culture, which is African culture that we have held on to. It is in us, period. I’m not putting stock in further separation, argument or disrespect of who is the blackest or who is more African.
A German American is different than a person born and raised in Germany and that is understood, but somehow when it comes to black people we can’t have no connection? Keep in mind, when you have no country or origin, it’s also a political reason to remove rights and prevent address of past grievances. Ask Israelis and Palestinians why a home country is so important? I can go on, but I’ll stop.
I’ve been reading a lot of the comments (haven’t read them all) and I just had to note that we are F’KED… we’re so racist against ourselves- if that makes any sense. Let me clarify- I get it, there won’t be any holding of hands and singing “Cum bye ya” across the globe, but does no one think all this defining of “what we are” beyond human as BS… that’s what we should be debating- especially in the wake of Haiti and people ALL over the world having to come together in aid. I understand, I would love to know what tribe my ancestors were a part of, but that may never happen and if it does it doesn’t change who I am or who you are to me. The longer we search to define ourselves the longer we’ll be perpetuating our own enslavement- we are different yes- but we are what we are and whatever that is is beautiful, powerful and God’s people… now can we please move on.
Colorism.
I so want to weigh in on this but my thoughts are all over the place. I’ve seen some good arguments on all sides of the issue and frankly it all just leaves me confused. My preference is to be called my name by others. But occasions arise when categorization is necessary…and since i have such a love for playing around with statistics I support this. In conversation I generally refer to myself as black because it’s convenient. As far as what other people call me I guess I’m so hard to offend that it doesn’t matter that much. Even someone calling me a ni66a probably wouldn’t offend me (waiting for someone to do that to my face so I can see how I’d really respond). I imagine it would affect the way I dealt with the person who referred to me as such because obviously they either have some personal issues or don’t know who I am. But call me Black, African-American, Negro, heck call me a chicken eating yella girl from Alabama and I’ll still be the same person.
I am a Black man. That is what I have always considered myself to me. “African-American” is a good term but like most people have posted, my link to Africa is not as direct or research as others. Slavery, the civil rights movement and the continuing struggle of Black people in this country, despite the negativity and cultural rape of us, are dynamic, impactful, creative, talented, intelligent and probably the most resilient people on this planet. Despite everything that is against me as a Black man in this country, I can still get an education, buy a home where I want to, buy any kind of car I want, can eat whatever I want and be who the f*ck I want to be. My path may be harder that people of a different skin color than mine or even my own skin color, but I still can do whatever I want. People from Nigeria, Eritrea, South Africa, Kenya and other African countries have so much pride in where they are from and the traditions and values and customs of those countries. This country is made up of some many different people, different circumstances that make it what it is. I may not know about my link to Africa and the traditions that come with it but I love being a Black man from Texas that has traditions that are linked to Africa, from growing watermelon to hip hop music. As an adult, I am proud being from Texas and from the US just like my Habesha friend loves being from Eritrea, or my college buddy that works for Dell is a proud Kenyan or my Jamaican friend that I treat like a little brother.
All that rambling was to say this: I am a Black American and I love this country, flaws and bad history and all. I love that people of my color in the country have done amazing things to where mere words do not and cannot diminish what we have done and what we will do. Despite how our direct ancestors got to this country and how this country has thrived on the backs of our people, we can now stand up straight and look and see how much of this country, better yet this world been influenced by what has become of those people in this country. If you, your parents or grandparents are not from another part of the world and you are looking for something to have pride in, have pride in that.
That’s my pocket change on the subject. Shout out to all of my black people, from the South, Midwest, East Coast, West Coast, the Islands, South America, Africa, Europe, everyone.
@ComicBookGuy,
Well said!
@Caballeroso, P.E.,
Appreciate it, bruh.
@ComicBookGuy, Great comment!!!
moderate deez!… ya’ll buggin- why am I being moderated? Huh P? If this is about yesterday- you tellin on yo’self… not to mention, I was really just asking- call it woman’s intuition… post my isht!
M0DERATE DEEZ!… ya’ll buggin- why am I being moderated? Huh P? If this is about yesterday- you tellin on yo’self… not to mention, I was really just asking- call it woman’s intuition… post my isht!
Great Post
While I understand in and agree in parts, I dont think there is anything wrong with black people that want to be called African American, that want to hold on a piece of that history, of their ancestry.
I find it odd that this is really even a discussion, especially considering h ow most white americans proudly lay claim to thier past as well. How many times does a white person tell you that they are white?
most of the time they dont, they always tell you a nationality and they have about as direct a connection as most african americans have to africa. in the same fashion their are truer (based on the definition we are using in this post) irish, english,italian americans then the regular old white folks and that doesnt change how they identify.
I personally dont mind either term but I do have a problem that so many people have a problem with people that want to keep a connection to their african ancestry. Its not about a fad or trend, it doesnt make it a bad thing even if jesse jackson or monique says so..
by the way whats wrong with Monique? I get she is a bit overbearing but why is she the new thing EBP’s dont like?
@shay_d_lady,
You always deliver.
@shay_d_lady, I say do you, I have no problem with folk who want to be identified as AA but I’d also like to point out since we are being technical and all, that most black americans are more than just black as far as lineage/bloodlines/race. most of us are a mixture…. so is the AA title really true all by itself, I think not, but if folk are comfy with that, hey rock on!!! Caublasion or whateva LLS
@OrangeStar616, I’m sorry I should have said most are of more than just african descent, sorry forgot I was being technical and all LOL
@OrangeStar616,
Eh. Most people are more than just their dominant ethnic or race group. It always smells a little fishy to me when people raise the point specifically regarding African-Americans.
@shay_d_lady,
I appreciate your post and I too wonder why so much shade on Monique?
OrangeStar, I see what you are saying but folks gave Tiger the lethal side-eye with that term “Cablinasian”. That speaks to the suggestion that folks rather be anything else but black (which is used to represent Africa). Sort of like how some (definitely not all) Latinos deny their African heritage. A Paul Mooney quote comes to mind: “Everybody wants to be a ni**a, but nobody wants to be a ni**a”. I say this partly in jest, and I know the ‘n’ word isn’t the most conducive to this discussion, but that Cablinasian term fits the Mooney quote and black folks saying “They got Indian in they family” to explain an attribute they deem positive. Usually after a person fronts on their black heritage (usually the African part) somebody who keeps it funky sucks they teeth, gives the side eye and says, “…wit yo’ black azz!” In some cases ‘Black’, in the colloquial sense is synonymous with African and for those who claim and are proud of their African heritage. Dos not mean I don’t refer to myself as African American as well.
@legitimate_soul, I concur and I know, trust, LOL, never will I front on the black hand on both sides, but are we fronting on our other parts LOL was more my point, just something to think bout tis all….not encouraging folks to be a-holes like mr.Woods either, that was more sarcasm LLS
@shay_d_lady,
“by the way whats wrong with Monique? I get she is a bit overbearing but why is she the new thing EBP’s dont like?”
Although I’m not a fan of Monique by any stretch of the imagination, I do believe she’s quickly becoming the 2010 version of Souljah Boy for the EBP. Which of course gets a *perma eyeroll* from me.
@miss t-lee, but why? what has she done to get that type of side eye?
@shay_d_lady,
Great question…I have no idea. People gotta have something to talk ish about, ya know? Easy target? I really don’t know.
@shay_d_lady,
“but why? what has she done to get that type of side eye?”
She has cashmere legs.
Nah, I’m playin’. I don’t have that much of an opinion of Mo’Nique and I also wonder why she gets so much hate.
@shay_d_lady,
Shit, what’s wrong wit Jesse Jackson, too? A whole lot fewer of the EBPs runnin around would be employed at their McCorporations if it weren’t for him.
Has anyone had the chance to read the rest of the article from John McHorter??
“…What has always worried me about it is an issue of pride. The notion that we do ourselves a favor by pretending that we are part “African” after four hundred years of cultural development right here in America implies that what we have done here isn’t inspiring enough. Among black Americans in 2010, true black pride does not call itself “African.”
Word?
And there lies the heart of the matter.
American= GOOD
African= BAD
Mr. McHorter wants no parts of that!
@jay totha dee,
Exactly. Going down one of John McWhorter’s winding road arguments only results in getting hopelessly lost nine times out of 10. He almost never makes sense in even the most oblique.
Running away from the image in the mirror for 40+ years will do that to you.
@jay totha dee,
Yeah, he gets a HUGE ‘o_O’ from me for that passage.
@ Yeah…SO?!
The asking of what a person’s race is going to occur if they black or white which is the point of the limitations in using ONLY those terms. I’m African American and I’m Black and it isn’t just politically correct fodder. I will not stop being either because they both provide a different context. Black Power movement connects all black peoples, no matter what shade of color they may be, but there is no Republic of Black, no specific country of origin cause black people are everywhere on this Earth. I can’t also simply say I’m American, even though I am, because under the same legal documents we hold our rights too, we weren’t considered a full person. Black folks in America ain’t always treated as Americans even though that’s what we are. Yet, I will not deny my ancestors who made it through that voyage, toiled, cried, fought, died, survived countless atrocities, and retained their heritage (that helps make American culture hot globally) by denying the African Heritage they tried so hard to preserve and that slave masters tried to literally whip and beat out of them. Denying that is denying my spirit and essence. Wyclef doesn’t stop his connection to Haiti even though he was raised here and Americanized in some ways. I’m never denying my heritage because I never been to the home country yet. To do so would make us rootless and break our connection to the beginnings of life, knowledge, medicine, civilization, etc.
@legitimate_soul, so I guess you’re talking to me (lol)…
Anyway, I’m confused… you seem to be a bit confused as well, no offense as I attempt to get us on the same wave length. When I said ask a 2520 what their race is that was in reference to this statement you made- “…when you ask a white person what’s their nationality or ethnicity they won’t say “white”. They will most likely say Russian, Irish, Italian, etc.”- the reason being is that white(and black for that matter) is not a nationality nor ethnicity- it’s a RACE… so why would someone answer a question about an ethnicity/nationality with a race?… do you understand? nationalities/ethnicities and races are different… apples and oranges if you will. That’s like asking someone “What’s your sign?” and then expecting them to tell you their birthday, granted one will give you an indication of the other… but, that’s not what was being asked.
We use AA, but it is a misnomer. Charlize Theron is African-American, Jesse Jackson (as much as he would like to hope and dream) is not. Whether or not people like it, we are American.
@Bring Back Dave Chappelle,
Good point, but “black” is a misnomer too. Even the most “blue black” of skin color is not the color black. Just like Native Americans aren’t really red, and Asians aren’t really yellow.
@Bring Back Dave Chappelle, no it isnt a misnomer. The term african american implies african descent it. it doesn t put a time line on that descent. and really if you think about it
Charlize Theron is probably african american in the same way we are black. Meaning her ancestry is not native to africa. Her family is probably dutch or some other european descent. Either way it doesnt matter the fact that she can be considered African American does not change anything about the fact that I too can be identified as african american.
@shay_d_lady, I’m excited that you commented, your comments always have me rolling. I have been lurking for a long time, but I know who you are. True Charlize’s ancestry is probably more Dutch than anything, but she was born and raised in Africa, so according to that, she would be considered African-American. If people are using AA as more of a “race indicator” then this is where AA fails b/c in the USA she would be considered white.
@legimate_soul. I know we aren’t black (although I have seen some people who can contradict that…don’t give me the side eye, you’ve seen them too) and I know white people aren’t white, but how do we identify ourselves? It’s weird because when I go to Europe, people don’t distinguish as much, but when you hit the USA, everyone wants a hyphen; no one wants to be an American. Irish-American, Italian-American, Japanese-American, etc. why not American? I know the argument can be made that it is because we aren’t seen as Americans, but I don’t care. I’m not going to let someone else define what I am or what I’m not.
I propose that we get rid of black, white, etc. and go with the following categories: white chocolate, milk chocolate, dark chocolate and Tiger Woods.
@Bring Back Dave Chappelle,
Whites who are born in S. Africa are NOT African…they are Afrikaan. Therefore, Charlize Theron would be Afrikaan-American which is different from African-American so Rev. Jesse’s status is safe for now.
Well I can think back about 3 generations so I say I’m American but my family is from the Caribbean. You can look at me and know that my ancestry is tied to Africa so there is no need to go there. Plus I have never been there nor do i really have any African friends……hmmm?
Black or African American is fine w/ me. I like African American (not anymore or less than) because regardless where I was born or how long I’ve lived in the U.S., it’s who I am (of African descent). I feel it’s something that [they] have been trying to strip us of since many of our ppl were put on ships.
My family has spent the past several years tracing our beginnings and after much time, much money, many White families and some Native American ties… we finally know where we originated from therefore, it’s another reason I can and don’t mind being African-American.
I don’t understand the fuss over being called Black vs. African American. My preference is African American. Both of my parents were born and raised in Africa but I was born and raised in the U.S. The term African American works well for someone like me. I feel connected to both Africa and the U.S. Black to me is such a generic term. I never thought it made much sense since people of African descent vary so much in skin tone and there are people of other races/ethnicities with the same skin tones as those we call “Black”. But it’s whatever….
if someone were to ask me what i am i would call myself african although i was born here. both my parents emigrated here about 2 years before i was born. i identify with both african and american cultures. my parents made sure they instilled in use traditions that were instilled in them. i guess some would say that i am a true african-american. *shrugs*
do i have a problem with black people calling themselves african american? not in the least bit. i think you should identify with whatever you feel most comfortable with. at the end of the day it really doesn’t matter what you call yourself but how you as well as the outside world views you. a title is just that. a title.
1st – Shout out to Smokey Robinson!!!
Remember when he was a guest poet on Def Poetry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgDvuuaQ2VQ&feature=related
2nd- I know President Obama, as well as the New World Order, has everyone re-thinking the use of “Race” on a global level since his racial ancestry is African and European. And with the growing numbers of interracial marriages/children around the globe the big question for everyone will be what do we call ourselves.
Personally, I think we need to do away with the traditional/political U.S. race classifications since everyone on this planet in terms of “nationality” or “ethnicity” is a combination of the 3 scientific racial groups: Africans, Asians, and Europeans. There are only a few markers that separate us — mainly hair texture, eye color, skin color. Other than that we all are of the HUMAN RACE.
If we only dealt with nationality or ethnicity then that would start to solve census and identity issues.
For example:
Nationality
Definition: The nation or country you were born in.
Check: South Africa, Nigeria, America, UK, France, Korea, Ireland, Canada, etc.
Ethnicity
Definition: A group of humans whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage that is real or assumed.
Check: Black*, White, Hispanic, Native American, Asian, Pacific Islander, Indian, etc.
So for me, my race is HUMAN. I’m AMERICAN and my ethnicity is BLACK.
*I know people say Black is a color not a culture, which is true. Which begs the question I’m sure Jesse Jackson struggled with years ago — What should we call ourselves ethnically?
“Black” or “Black American.”
Otherwise we get ridiculous things like “Jamaican-American” being different than “African-American” and that just leaves everyone more confused.
THANK YOU. Damn. . I was going to write this blog post. . . I refuse, yes refuse to call anyone “African American” unless “they” say “I am AFRICAN AMERICAN” I typically call people by their name. . . Tyrone, Bobby, Leon, JoJo (I just wanted to throw in a couple stereotypical names for fun) but in general I tend to use “BLACK” and “Black (s)” it makes white people very uncomfortable. I don’t know who in the HELL all of ya’ll deal with but I grew up in a state that is 97% white and I have never heard any white people speak about their Irish roots or anything to that regard. Thank God I was adopted and I have no idea what my family history is. . . I am WHITE, pasty and pale. However I did have this black man at the Safeway ask me if I was black. . . hmmmmm. . . . interesting. I digress. I will just call you by your name until further notice but please if you must put me a box . . . don’t. It’s not that serious.
I wish we all could be considered Americans if we were born and raised here and not have to worry about a label.
The terminology “African-American” is a bit incongruous with the other hyphenated terms. In general, hyphenated-american refers to a person of immediate or near immediate immigrant descent while a non-hyphenated term refers to someone whose family has been here for several generations.
Technically, it is analogous to “Asian” in that it is a generalized term used to refer to non immigrants with ancestry from a specific continent, however this usage is not always the case.
These terms have grown at an ad-hoc basis and are remnants of a time where things literally were seen in either black or white. I don’t think there is a good way to address fully. I would think the best thing would be to eliminate race identification altogether – however based on previous discussions here, that is clearly a sore topic
Based on studies of endogamy and exogamy within the united states, we (everyone in the US) tend to marry within our own race so a future where we are so racially mixed that it becomes pointless to classify americans racially is still way off in the future and unlikely to be realized even by population projections in my lifetime.
@kamakula,
To be more clear, in practice, the hyphenated terms referring to immigrancy status only tends to apply to European immigrants. All others (minorities) tend to be just referred to by their continents which contributes to confusion when you attempt to apply logic to things you though were supposed to be “politically correct”.
erm, yea… what Sula & lulu said!
I very rarely use the term African-American. Like you said, I have very little in common with someone from Africa…I either describe myself as “Black,” “Geechee” or as “American of African descent.”
In the end, I just rather be called by my given name.
WOW! This is a very good question. I recently moved to the DC area from the south and I have been in culture shock. I am a teacher and I have African students in my classroom who I have to remind to eat with forks. Not because they do not know better, but because in their home they eat with their hands. I can’t even relate to that. I remember reading from Iyanla Vanzant that she feels that Black folks ought to embrace more of their African traditions. I honor Africa, but I grew up in the south, I have my own culture. That is what I dentify with, so that is who I am. After today I will now identy myself as Black.
I completely agree with this story, but I usually do not classify myself as “black” because of the history of the term. At the point of the civil rights movement and prior to that, the term “black” to describe us was used interchangeably with “negro,” “colored,” and even “nigger.” Black, by definition, was considered dirty and/or dishonest, while white was considered pure, honest, and without color. So for that reason, I agree wtih Jesse Jackson, in that I don’t want to be classified as “black.”
I also agree with the author of this article (I have more in common with an American than I do a native African), therefore, the title “African-American” isn’t really a good fit either. We should all just be considered “American.” Or, if “African Americans” have to have a title, “Caucasions” should be classified as European-American; i.e German-American, Irish-American, etc.
I say stick w/ niggas, fuck it.
I have always wondered about that particular label. What does one call someone like Charlize Theron who was born and raised in South Africa and whose first language is Afrikaans (sp?)? Or Chelsy Davy of Zimbabwe? I cannot think of a more Aryan ideal – yet they are LITERALLY African.
Or my neighbour who, born in Kenya, spent the vast majority of her teenaged life in America explaining specifically why she was not a “Paki”.
I think a discussion on this “identification” is long over due.