Say you’re in a relationship. Say that the two of you have been dating for quite some time. Say that you’ve both had that conversation about where the two of you are “going” and the dude answered thoughtfully and didn’t wince.
Hell, say you, say me. Say it together. That’s the way it should be.
Let’s say even further that one day, maybe jokingly, somebody throws out there that you two should move in together; shack up, if you will.
Now maybe it was mentioned as a joke, but you begin to mull it over. I mean, in today’s society who CAN’T afford to try to save money? With the economy in the outhouse crapper the way it is, every little penny counts. You can consolidate bills and best of all – you get to live with the one you love; you get to wake up in the bask of their glow and their scent.
All of a sudden, the idea of shacking up isn’t such a bad one. In fact, it’s a good one and you’re excited, but there’s just that one hurdle.
How in Sam Hill do you tell your parents that you’re going to be shacking up?
Hmm.
I wonder if its just a Black issue or not, but has anybody else noticed how much Black parents REALLY don’t like the idea of shacking up? I live with my girlfriend right now and I remember having a convo with an older Black woman in my office who got really serious with me about it and told me she didn’t think that any respectable couple would shack up. She likes me though so she said she’d reserve total judgment. Lucky me!
Do white people have this problem? White people move in together all the time before they get married. Hell, they even BUY the places they live in together before they get married. I’ve always found that to be curious, no? I tried to find it in the Bible and all (since you know les Negroes are tres religiouso) but I couldn’t find the “thou shalt not shack” commandment.
Slap me silly and call me Susan but I happen to think that the pros outweigh the cons when it comes to living with somebody you’re considering marrying. For one, you don’t really know anybody until you share your space with them. Trust me. All of those little things that you don’t mind at their place – since it’s, ya know, their place – will drive you absoposilutely batsh*t in your own place. But how would you know that? You can stay the night 4 nights a week but you really don’t know what it’s like to live with somebody until you’re in a position where they’re not only NOT going anywhere, THEY CAN’T because they live where you live.
Puts arguments into a whole new perspective. You’ll find out that it really IS possible to go to bed angry. And even further than that, you won’t give a sh*t because you’re tired and in your house.
Good times. These. Are.The.Good.Times.
I really liked Chic.
Even better, I’m guessing it can further cement your resolve to get married or go your separate ways. Which if you think about it, could save the divorce rate in this country. Though on the other hand, cohabitation has increased anyway so it looks like more people are just moving in together anyway.
Anyway, I put the question to you good people – what’s the big deal about shacking up? Is it okay or should everybody have a place of their own no matter how much time you may spend together? If so, why?
And why do old Black people take such issue with the shackin’? They know what we’re doing anyway…
-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka TANGLE JIG P
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{ 406 comments… read them below or add one }
My boy and his girl moved in together and lived together since December, and he still hasn’t told his parents. I think the plan is for them to come over one day and just see all her stuff in the crib and kinda just assume she lives there.
Its hilarious actually because they refer to “his” house and “her” house in front of his mom.
@Dorian G.,
Its hilarious actually because they refer to “his” house and “her” house in front of his mom.
see, thats easily the worst thing about lying: the effort it takes to keep up the lie
@The Champ,
“see, thats easily the worst thing about lying: the effort it takes to keep up the lie”
exactly.
@The Champ,
I think this was the speech my Mom first gave me about not lying…lol
I remember something about having to tell a whole bunch more lies, to cover up the original lie.
@The Champ,
eventuall, one day, somebody is gonna slip up.
@Dorian G.,
A clear sign that they’re doing something they’re not proud of.
@Dom,
Nah I think its more a clear sign that his mom’s is crazy.
You know you never want to do anything to unsettle a crazy person.
@Dorian G.,
Snickers.
I dont know. If they were so convinced they’re in the right, they wouldnt have anything to hide.
@Dom, they are wusses bottom line-go figure the keep it real kids, now grown still cant keep it real-my mom always when you are growm what I do with my time and money is on me whether she agreed or not was NOT part of the decsion making process-therefore I always told her my moves or moves I mite make just so she KNEW gotdammit I am her son…dont shift their inabilty to confess to what it is to mom.
@Dorian G.,
how is he getting away with that? does hisparents liveina different city?
I have “shacked up” before and everyone around me thought it was a bad idea. I felt like my situation was a little different, because I was doing my ex a favor, it wasn’t that I was so in love I had to be around him all the time. Things were definitely different when he moved in. It wasn’t the same as playing sleep over.
I had to see him every morning, no matter how mad at him I was.
I went to sleep bad.
But
We did grow closer. We fought more. We made up more.
But
We grew apart at the same time. There are things you can only learn about a person from living together.
I don’t think I would have realized he wasn’t the man for me so quickly if we weren’t pushed into that living situation.
I am not sure why black families look down on it so much, yet having kids before marraige is looked at as a norm.
I say all that to say, I would do it again. I don’t think I could marry a guy without living with him first.
@Silent Scorpion, “I am not sure why black families look down on it so much, yet having kids before marraige is looked at as a norm.”
Good point
@Silent Scorpion,
“I am not sure why black families look down on it so much, yet having kids before marraige is looked at as a norm”
Nah…not in my family. They frown upon both.
@miss t-lee, Yeah. I had my child before marriage and my parents had a fit.
@miss t-lee,
In my family it depends on the age of the individual. If you’re 35 and shacking up, then go ahead and do you. Younger than that, fits will be had by many!
@YGB,
Shooot. Your family is nice.
Mine doesn’t care about the age or anything…lol
@Silent Scorpion,
“I am not sure why black families look down on it so much, yet having kids before marraige is looked at as a norm”
i think the families to thumb their noses at shacking up are likely to be the same ones who feel similarly towards out of wedlock kids.
@The Champ,
completely agree. my parents don’t play that. either one is no good in their book.
@Silent Scorpion, though I don’t think families out of wedlock is thought of as OK, a lot of this, to include shacking is very much age dependent. there’s a certain point where i’m guessing your parents want grandbabies and they’ll settle for it not happening the “right” way.
hell, my parents couldn’t care less that me and my girlfriend shacked up. and i think that’s b/c i’m damn near 30 and my parents believe in (and always have) letting their children learn things on their own.
i havent had the experience of telling an older Black person that i was gonna get to shackin’ so i cant say how they will or wont react. i will say that i think shackin up is a great idea for all the reasons youve stated….i need to know what im getting into, and the dude most definitely needs to know what he’s taking on with me! i know im no picnic to live with (im messy and i never put anything back where it belong) and i think living with someone that i am intending to marry is just another way of making sure that decision is the right one.
i have noticed too that my 2520 friends cant WAIT to shack up! my Black friends will keep their apartments as long as possible….i have even had an instance of talking with a white friend about where she saw things going with her live-in boyfriend and hearing her say she didnt know. just moving in all willy-nilly is not a good look, imo. i think the intent to marry is key. why am i moving in with someone if i dont know that the relationship is going to a place where we’re gonna be living together? ive seen folks, buy houses, cars and pets together because theyve “been together for so long.”
i wont say that shacking up leads to a better informed marriage though…not in all cases. plus, i recall reading a study or something that said that the divorce rate among couples who shacked up before marriage is higher than that of those who lived separate until the ring exchange. i found that an interesting tidbit, but it didnt change my mind about shacking up! i dont know that its best for everyone, but i know me and its certainly best for me.
@shatani,
I read that same study in psych class. But I think the qualifier was that the ppl who shacked up prenuptially were in what were termed marriages of consequence (i.e. they were usually running from smthg) whereas the non-shackers were running into the marriage just for the love of the game.
As per Susan’s question, I know my parents’ main concern that I don’t get kicked outta some shit. Then they’d have to wake up at 3am and come get me before my ex “put his shoe on me”. I dunno why they think shacking up is some sort of flytrap of relationships and having babies is just a free-for-all though..
@shatani,
“i recall reading a study or something that said that the divorce rate among couples who shacked up before marriage is higher than that of those who lived separate until the ring exchange.”
I actually saw this too..but i cant really remember where. On top of which, I don’t even see how shaking up leads to what most women want in the end ANYWAYS; if you want “someone to protect you” get a dog and hook up a brinks alarm.
but why wait for a man to cold “convenient woman” box you. Men don’t settle down with convenient women any way…
moreover get a part-time job if you’re JUST looking for a man to go “half on your life”.
@shatani
I read this same study….not sure where, but Ima go with cnn.
@shatani, of all the couples I have known to shack up (I am 33) none of em are married-jus that bs default common law crap-these men NEVER asked for these ladies to be married yet they stayed around anyway
@shatani,
i have heard of these statistics. some attribute it to the mentality of committment. ppl who shack generally have in the back of their mind “i don’t have to take this if i don’t want to, i can leave any time.” although it seems benign, the thought becomes habitual and it is hard to break out of that way of thinking after the marriage…..so when times get hard, that leave any time mentality rears its ugly head and divorce court it is…..that’s one hypothesis
ONE TIME for working in the B-52′s, Lionel Richie and Chic references. I love finding lyrics hidden in the prose…it’s like the prize in the cereal.
I think shacking has become less of a problem these days, but your Grandma will likely have the same reaction as she did in 1965…it’s the world that’s changing, not the perceptions of the elderly.
However, I think once a baby is introduced into the shacking scenario, folks tend to overlook it to focus on the immediate and impending issue of the child. The “what-do-you-plan-to-do” response takes over and parents are expected to prepare a place for the child w/some semblance of balance…so if that includes shacking for the time being, they tend to be a little more lenient with ‘the rules’. After the child is born, however, the focus returns to the two of you living in sin…
Also, most parts of the Bible that have to do w/shacking up refer to premarital sex (which is assumed in that scenario), but Deuteronomy 22:28-29 is pretty direct:
“If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found,
Then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days.”
…I assume this still applies even if she’s not a virgin.
@Resident GRitS,
thats a big assumption! lol
@shatani,
I suppose so, but where does it say that a woman who’s not a virgin shouldn’t have the opportunity to have a family?
…this feels like a whole different conversation.
@Resident GRitS,
how much is 50 shekels of silver in 2009 money?
@SexyCool,
lol shekels…..lawd
lmbaooooo
@SexyCool,
…………………………
@Resident GRitS, LMAO I always have music in my head & have to refrain frombreaking into song when somebody says something that is similar to a songs lyrics LOL.
I agree with some of your points though. I think shackin up is sort of the “test drive” before you “buy the car”. But it also leaves that OPTION open to leave whenever things get tight in a relationship. Not to say that people dont just walk away from marriages but it would seem easier if you were just living together.
@Resident GRitS,
vsb.com: where scripture happens
@The Champ, vsb.com: where scripture happens
mount of the holy cross ebenezer church bible study
it wasn’t that hard for me but then I had to tell them about the shacking after the un wed pregnancy.. less than a year into the relationship period and definitely not that long into the “serious” dating phase…..that being said I am an advocate of shacking WITH a definite commitment date.. I mean if your going to live together and merge households I think you should be planning on marriage especially if you will be tying your credit and shyt together by purchasing a home or signing a lease together.. Marriage might not be for everyone but if that’s the case then you shouldn’t “play” at it if its not for you. Also if you move in with no definite date or plan you tend to get caught up
@Shay-d-lady, yeah, the one and only time i actually lived with a man is when we were planning to get married – as in, officially engaged, both our parents and families knew…
it’d cause my parents too much stress, and me enough stress, having to tell them… i don’t know what it is, i’m curiously old fashioned about this one – i actually DO NOT want to live with any of my boyfriends, and as i get older, it gets worse. i like my space, i like my routine, and i like that the whole place is MINE ALL MINE…
i look forward to taking it further with my beloved, but already i’m in mourning for the lack of complete privacy and me-time/me-space.
culturally also, people here frown on ‘vat en sit’ as we refer to shacking up. as a popular song once crudely put it ‘man, are you just eating here, or do you plan to get married?’ but a lot of people do it – i know pleeenty of couples who have no intention on getting married, who’re living together. their parents are stressed, but oh well…
@superwoman,
as a popular song once crudely put it ‘man, are you just eating here, or do you plan to get married?’
this song was popular where?
@The Champ,
in south africa and surrounding areas
@YGB,
you all need to come up with a south african wiki function for us and sh*t
@The Champ,
No.
lmao
@YGB, LMAO.
Amandla!!!!
(just felt like saying that)
@Shay-d-lady, ” I am an advocate of shacking WITH a definite commitment date” how realistic is this? I mean there are some dudes whom you should just date and not shack todays ladies move him in anyway and when you say this you are giving that weasel all the fuel he’ll ever need. For your “time aint standing stll” moments he’ll just reply with “that dates to close for me to do my thing…but next yr its on!” I aint saying it dont work but as a man I cant see whats the incentive to marry you. Especially if the dude is a simp in a good mans clothing…yall cant tell the dif and when the D a factor I swear yall dont wanna know that he aint nowhere the stud you thought…but ah its too late yall living together
Living together is something most black parents frown upon, especially for their daughters, I should know.. I’ve had this talk with my mom since I was 16. They say if you guys live together then you’re definitely not going to get married. The whole why by the milk when you already have the cow thing.
I’m caribbean and the whole living together before marriage would send my mother into a heaving fit and then I’d be cast out of the family… insanity in 2009 but that’s the way they are.
I think they believe that, that part of a relationship is left for the sanctity of marriage and only then can you live with someone, because it would be wrong in the eyes of God. You won’t find that “thou can’t shack up commandment” but you will find the whole “Man leaves his parents and woman leaves her parents and they become one” passage in there. Children are a blessing no matter how they come, but living together.. a definite NO NO!!
I do believe that you should live with someone before you marry them, cause whose to say you’re not going to be living with Oscar the grouch or the neatest freak in the land?? Got to know your options before you cash in all your chips.
@Liryc, I’m Caribbean too and I feel you 100%. My two oldest cousins moved in with their fiancees before their respective weddings, and it was the biggest deal. No one in the family spoke about it to them or their parents, but everyone gossiped amongst themselves. And I know their mother was so VERY upset. She’s the most conservative in the family, so I know she didn’t think it was a good look.
Black people generally tend to be rather conservative and old fashioned. It’s about 3x worse with ppl from the islands. After each of them moved in with their ladies my mother would turn to me and say “It’s not right, it’s not right. Don’t you EVER do that.”
I talked to one of my cousins about it and he said he knew ppl were P.O.’d, and that if things could have worked out differently he would’ve waited until the wedding to move in together. They were selling their places, his was first to go. They moved into her place before the wedding and their new house was ready a while after. Financially, everything fell into place. And that was that.
It is different for women’s families, though. Guys can “get away” with certain things; family looks at you differently if you are a young lady who decides to shack up with your boyfriend/fiance.
When I think about it, shacking up gives you room to back out of sealing the deal. If you truly love someone and have decided that’s the person you want to build a life with –or at least can see yourself building a life with– their living habits shouldn’t change that. Because I’m neat and you’re messy, it’s not going to work? Nah, you develop a system where it works. I pick up where you slack, you pick up where I slack, or we agree with BOTH need to do better.
When you’re married and you enter your home together, as a couple, you’re entering that home on solid, definite ground. There’s no backing out, no plan B, no exit. I think that’s necessary- if you enter into that home together knowing there’s no backing out- you just have to make it work. If you’re shacking up, you can bail out at the slighted problem.
@Lili, it is interesting because it seems that culture has a lot to do with it. even here in the US, if you take it back 50 years, it was not common for women to move in with their boyfriends. i don’t even know if the term boyfriend was being used, it was more “he might be a good husband”.
personally, i’m wary of moving in with someone, especially if we have never talked marriage. if i’m 100% commited to you, and vice versa, can we jump this broom, i keep tripping over it!
LMAO @ “can we jump this broom, i keep tripping over it!”
e-twin you stoopid!
@overit, if i’m 100% commited to you, and vice versa, can we jump this broom, i keep tripping over it!
LOL!! so true, so true
@Liryc,
Living together is something most black parents frown upon, especially for their daughters
this pretty much sums it up right here. it seems be much more of an issue for a woman’s parents than a man’s, mainly because the woman’s people might feel as if shes being taken advantage of, and also because it basically broadcasts “yes, i’m having tons of pre-martial sex” to the public, lol
I do believe that you should live with someone before you marry them, cause whose to say you’re not going to be living with Oscar the grouch or the neatest freak in the land?? Got to know your options before you cash in all your chips.
so if your SO was a neat freak or an “oscar the grouch” would that change your mind about marrying them?? are living habits that are opposite from yours a deal breaker?
@Gem-nastics,
are living habits that are opposite from yours a deal breaker?
Great question.
@Sula for the kids…,
- if living habits are a deal breaker, it wasn’t real love to begin with.
- if it IS real love, you wouldn’t be shacking up in tha first place. You would marry each other and have FAITH that things will work out, learn to compromise, and keep it moving…
just sayin…
@Tx10inch,
::applause for this comment::
@miss t-lee,
Don’t you like Texas men?
(Gemmie, are you reading this? You should, darl!!
)
@Sula for the kids…,
Of course I do Miss Sula. I live in TX…lol
Gemmie doesn’t need to worry…he’s safe.
@Tx10inch, Ionno Tx… some people (who are good still good people) require the faith of Christ for you to want to stay with them… and you can really love someone and want to leave them. Sheit… me personally, I’m human and like Kelis said, some of you don’t break, but I break… some men will test the patience of the saints.
@pgh muse,
Ionno Tx… some people (who are good still good people) require the faith of Christ for you to want to stay with them… and you can really love someone and want to leave them
Definently understand that babygurl.. but that’s why it’s called “love”. that ish is a powerful word that most ppl throw around all willy nilly now a days..I dunno, maybe if you didn’t “love” that person anymore than those things could be dealbreakers but to say you really “love” someone, virtually no matter what you go through together means you try to work it out. And if you just “shackin up” that commitment isn’t there and never will be knowing you have an easy way out…
*making mental notes that me and e-boos opposite habits will not have any affect on him wanting to e-marry me*
@Tx10inch, maybe if you didn’t “love” that person anymore than those things could be dealbreakers but to say you really “love” someone, virtually no matter what you go through together means you try to work it out
I dont’ know if I agree with this… I don’t know if I agree that completely losing one’s self for someone else or losing one’s standards because of a feeling for someone else is love. I just don’t know about that.
@Tx10inch, i know that’s right!
*ululations*
i find it interesting that people realize that love can be so complicated (as per yesterday) and then today think that if you LOVE one another you should just jump the broom.
maybe thats why the divorce rate is so high in the first place, folks think they know LOVE but they really have no clue.
@Panama Jackson, I agree. Relationships are hard. I love my SO. I really do. But sometimes he gets on my last nerve. The last one…
@Panama Jackson,
hmmm, ain’t tryin to step on yo toes P.Jack.
No judgement, that’s just what I believe about real “love”. Love IS complicated, but you’d NEVA hear yo boy Tx ova here saying “jump tha broom cause you THINK your in love” People (should) get married because they know they’re in love and willing to put up with this person no matter what is coming round the corner. *exception: the abusive,lying,atheist serial cheater* And granted the divorce rate is thru the roof, but who’s to say those aren’t the people who thought it was 4evah when really it was just a long-term sexual,financial,parental, agreement that somebody reneged on. That’s why I believe you should take tha time to get to know somebody. You don’t HAVE to live together to do that. I must admit though, if she’s spending more time at your crib than her’s or vice versa then the logical thing is to think “Let’s just move in together.” But I’ve seen that complicate things on both parts. And as somebody said in an earlier post “complacency sets in”. So there’s no need to go any further. That might work for some people, for other’s it doesn’t. I’m rambling here and I think i lost my point, but anyway..it was just my opinion P. Jack. Fished out tha subtle message in your post. lol.
@Tx10inch, my bad hombre. i must be seeming to be extra sensitive today or something. lol. my apologies. though me and my girl are living together, i dont have a real opinion on it one way or another. we moved in because of our child, if she wasn’t pregnant, we probably wouldn’t be living together at this point. in fact, we wouldnt. so i’m probably more on the “non-shackin” end than I am the shacking end anyway…
i think you made good points. my bad if i came off like i wanted to slap you with a tube sock.
@Tx10inch,
i agree, but I think people need to date a LONG time to know they are in love. A long time. 5 years.
@Sula for the kids…, exactly, problems dont go away cuz yall together if he is too attached his biys living together wont change that he’ll hang out with them outside of the crib and when yuo complain he’ll stratgically sex that ass-since yall live together he’ll come in late drunk or high or both let you riff then when you go to the bathroom on you way out “he takes it right there” 3 orgasms later you are very happy yall moved in until his phone rings and he start whispering or did you really think “he aint goin to have time for that once we start living together” the only that changes is yall now live together.
I don’t think its important to live together before marriage and i think at times it could also be detrimental . I think that shaking up, even if you’ve been together a long time, can take a relationship places it’s not supposed to be yet. I think that alot of people think you have to know absolutely everything or at least most things about a person before you marry them, and granted there are some very important things you should know, but a big and exciting part of marriage is discovery. Discovering things about yourself and your partner that you never knew and growing in that process and becoming closer as a result. I think if a couple is not sure where they intend to go, they should just wait, and if they know they want to get married someday then they should cut the crap, get themselves together and proceed toward that end, which is at least theoretically a more permanant situation. but i could be wrong
i do think that older black people get so offended at the prospect of shaking up because to them it’s indecent, even if they know you’re doing it, so does everybody at their church, and all the ladies in their book club. If you just lived by yourself at least they could hold onto their notions of decency and not think of their children as indecent fornicators lol. remember the episode of the cosby’s when claire and cliff found out theo was living with his gf…remember the hatred in claire’s eyes lol. honestly if i was a parent, esp. of a woman, i would be upset if she shaked up too, like she was selling herself short or something, just taking what she could get or her was willing to give. ok that was completely long winded…sorry folks
@PrincesMo,
“I don’t think its important to live together before marriage and i think at times it could also be detrimental . I think that shaking up, even if you’ve been together a long time, can take a relationship places it’s not supposed to be yet. I think that alot of people think you have to know absolutely everything or at least most things about a person before you marry them, and granted there are some very important things you should know, but a big and exciting part of marriage is discovery. Discovering things about yourself and your partner that you never knew and growing in that process and becoming closer as a result. I think if a couple is not sure where they intend to go, they should just wait, and if they know they want to get married someday then they should cut the crap, get themselves together and proceed toward that end, which is at least theoretically a more permanant situation. but i could be wrong.”
This is good.
@PrincesMo,
i do think that older black people get so offended at the prospect of shaking up because to them it’s indecent, even if they know you’re doing it, so does everybody at their church, and all the ladies in their book club. If you just lived by yourself at least they could hold onto their notions of decency and not think of their children as indecent fornicators lol.
i agree. i addressed this much less articulately upthread
@PrincesMo,
I have to co-sign this post.
@PrincesMo, I don’t even need to post a comment…you said it all right here. Totally agree!
@Bailey, thanks i try lol
I’d blame it on religion (is that blasphemous) where my Grannie is concerned. Unfortunately I haven’t yet met a man for whom I’d upset my Grannie. I know if I even discussed living with someone she’d call me out on it (in a private session.)
My mom and dad were never married. And thank heavens because they didn’t get along. At least by the time I was old enough to pick up on these things they didn’t. So my parents (my mom) would be against shacking just because she believes a woman should have her own in case the you know what hits the fan.
Despite the obvious economic benefits I am still old school in my belief that no one buys the cow if they’re getting milk for free. And in my heart I feel like it is an admission of sin. I’ve come to grips with my inner hypocrite. Some sins I am willing to commit/live with (the ones I can hide from man) and others…I just can’t cross the line; No playing house if you’re not married.
@Ms. Hall,
what exactly is the “milk” in this scenario? i mean, i always thought that to be the sexin….so, if youre not celibate and youre not married, arent you already giving the milk away for free?
that is, unless something else is the milk…
@shatani,
I believe the “milk” in question is not only the booty, but all the other benefits of being married.(Think old school, back when women used to cook and clean and stay home and raise babies) Of course, if you’re doing all of this without the ring… you’re giving it away for free.
Just my take on it…I could be wrong though. lol
@miss t-lee,
Yes, my parents have a big problem with “playing house” as they call it. Marital duties are like some slave shit when you think about it. All that cookin and cleanin and pressin and givin up half your shit. Maybe its more like sharecropping or pimping or smthg. The point is, from the outside looking in its easy to think your son/daughter is being taken advantage of by someone who thinks they’re great, but not good enough to follow this thing to its natural end and put a ring on it. And we all know aint nobody to good for mama’s baby!
***Throwing on the Devil’s advocate fitted cap***
“Of course, if you’re doing all of this without the ring… you’re giving it away for free.”
So is it still giving “it” away for free if the man is doing all of the so-called husbandly duties? Who says the woman is the only one in this equation that is doing all of the giving of the illustrious “milk”?
@AkShone,
Good question. It’s not really husbandly duties though, if there is no marriage involved right?
We all know this adage is pertaining to ladies though. The men don’t stand to lose what a woman does in this equation.
“It’s not really husbandly duties though, if there is no marriage involved right?”
Well, what are wifely duties? I get the whole cooking, cleaning, on-demand rabbit dancing, etc…but this seems to be under the assumption that the woman is with a caveman that must’ve been quite the dirtiest, non-cooking, chexually repressed, dependant man a woman could meet. What was the dude doing with his living space before the woman got involved? Who says the guy would just place all of the in-house responsibilities on the woman? Just seems to get a little one-sided on who is giving what and the weight of the prize at hand.
Just questions out of curiosity. I’m actually against moving in with a woman unless I’ve proposed and have plans to marry her…I don’t judge people who do. I’m all about whatever makes a person happy, because at the end of the day, that’s what’s important.
@AkShone,
“What was the dude doing with his living space before the woman got involved? ”
Well if we’re referencing old school…as I was earlier, most kats were still at their parents home. Which meant of course, their Mamma’s were doing most of cleaning and cooking and the like. I think that this also added to the incentive of getting married as well–to get out on your own.
Just my take on it of course…lol
@AkShone,
Do men really have a history of getting used AND not getting what they want in the end? Nowadays, men who get used are usually getting what they want (trail mix, or whatever yous all call it) before, during and perhaps after they allow themselves to be used. Hence them making themselves useful.
Women on the other hand get used and what they want (usually commitment) gets dangled just out of reach. Therefore, parents like to keep their daughters more on-guard about getting gypped on the deal
“Do men really have a history of getting used AND not getting what they want in the end?”
Sure, everyone gets used at some point in their life for whatever reason. So are you saying that just because the man is getting “trail mix” that he is fine with being used? I mean, hey I LOVE the “pink taco” maybe even greater than the next guy, but it’s not the end all be all. Chances are the guy was already consistantly at “Taco Bell” anyway.
“Women on the other hand get used and what they want (usually commitment) gets dangled just out of reach. ”
Again, this is under the assumption thatthe woman is dealing with a man that doesn’t want what she wants…in which case the woman shouldn’t even be considering shacking with the dude anyway…she setting herself up to fail.
@AkShone,
I mean, hey I LOVE the “pink taco” maybe even greater than the next guy, but it’s not the end all be all
No I don’t think it is. But a lot of men aren’t terribly heartbroken and feeling like they “wasted their best years” if they pick up half the household bills and all they got was a taco. You still didn’t answer my original question?
“this is under the assumption thatthe woman is dealing with a man that doesn’t want what she wants…in which case …she setting herself up”
Exactly. And its the possibility that this assumption may be fact that makes shacking up, for daughters in particular, a scary idea
@AkShone,
“Again, this is under the assumption thatthe woman is dealing with a man that doesn’t want what she wants…in which case the woman shouldn’t even be considering shacking with the dude anyway…she setting herself up to fail.”
I dont know about everyone else, but I usually think the woman who is shaking up isnt getting what she wants. I dont know a woman on this earth who doesnt want to be married, at least someday. Especially if she’s going so far as to move in with dude.
@Dom,
**Ducking and raising hand tentatively** I am one woman who isn’t all extra in a big hurry to get married… I have my kids and have been in an ltr for the past few years. Because of this I UNDERSTAND why people don’t rush to the alter… and I also understand why people don’t rush to do it again once they’ve been there.
I agree with Dom, I guess any question is worth asking when we’re playing devil’s advocate. But I honestly think if anyone gets shorted in that situation, it’s usually the woman
@Me fail english?,
What didn’t I answer in your original question?
“But a lot of men aren’t terribly heartbroken and feeling like they “wasted their best years” if they pick up half the household bills and all they got was a taco.”
Ok, and I’m not being an @sshole when I say this but, “wasted their best years” is a bit of a woman statement. Why is the woman’s time anymore valuable than the man’s? I just don’t get the subtle undertone that men are emotional androids and haven’t invested time, energy and sacrifice in a relationship. Does the woman bare any accountability?
@AkShone, i agree with everything you say here. I may see it differently, but to me life is a journey… and you will have many experiences in life that shape the person you are today and tomorrow. If in this life I never get married, i think that I’m really ok with that… cuz it’s not as if I haven’t known love. I have.. and if it doesn’t last for ever, so be it. I really am more attached to my kids and motherhood(is that horrible?) I don’t feel like my years as a mother are wasted at all… actually I feel like our adventures have just begun… and this happens frequently cause with every new thing with my kids it’s an adventure… and my own stages in life are new and interesting…idk. I’ve had my share of men and relationships… so i’m ok with it. If I ever fall in love again, I’m ok with that too. I don’t know…
Do men really have a history of getting used AND not getting what they want in the end?
The part that maybe I don’t understand your answer to is whether or not men in particular had a history of putting in the work, all for naught. My theory was that sure men get used and you guys may get sad about it but I always thought the tacos were high enough on the list of priorities that it wouldn’t be considered a total loss if things fall apart. The woman (assuming she wants marriage) never got “the prize” or any prize at all. (taco stuffings doesn’t count).
And yeah, its a womanly statement cuz I’m a woman with a much shorter biological clock and shorter shelf life for when I am deemed attractive/sexual to the masses.
I think you’re reading more than I’m writing with the whole undertone thing though. I acknowledged that we all get used. You guys just have more to show for it when its all over (wild taco tales)
“Do men really have a history of getting used AND not getting what they want in the end?”
Sure, for every dude that hasn’t…there are some who have. Seems as though you mean in the stereotypical sense (and correct me if I’m wrong).
Stereotypically, no…but stereotypically I should’ve been in jail with 4 to 5 baby-mommas.
“I always thought the tacos were high enough on the list of priorities that it wouldn’t be considered a total loss if things fall apart.”
I see what you’re saying, but in all honesty you’re putting the p*ssy on a pedestal. If that’s a dude’s primary motivation then all he really wanted was in-house @ss and all of the positives that comes with it. Like I said, he probably was already gettin’ that.
I’m not saying that there aren’t men that would look at it that way, but if the dude was in love and truly wanted to be with the woman and it didn’t work out, he probably wouldn’t be on some “Well, at least I hit…” type of sh*t.
“The woman (assuming she wants marriage) never got “the prize” or any prize at all. (taco stuffings doesn’t count).”
Why would the woman shack up with the dude if they don’t want the same thing. If she knows what she wants, why is she comprimising her standards to shack with the kat, anyway? If they ARE on the same page and want the same things and it doesn’t work out…didn’t they both not get the “prize”?
“And yeah, its a womanly statement cuz I’m a woman with a much shorter biological clock”
Ok, I agree with you.
“Shorter shelf life for when I am deemed attractive/sexual to the masses.”
This is a bit subjective and could be said about some men too.
**Sidenote** I’m really not trying to counter your points, but just pointing out that women and men deal with some of the same issues.
“You guys just have more to show for it when its all over (wild taco tales)”
If all a guy has to show for his relationships with women is his p*ssy count then what does he really have?
Ah. Point taken. Sometimes I literally forget that men have feelings. I guess I was just assuming that old school folks put more emphasis on the woman’s pain because of my above stated stereotypes. . .that apparently I bought into as well!
@shatani,
LOL. Logically you’d think that the “milk” referred to the physical but I think miss t-lee’s definition is accurate. The saying is old school so old school rules, about gender roles in a relationship, apply.
milk = cleaning, cooking, child-bearing/rearing, etc.
@Liryc,
I agree with the whole west indian thing! My dad is west indian and while I love him, my fam and other west indians they have proven to be some of the most irrational lunatics that walk the earth & I say this with as much love as possible.
Now the idea of shacking up never appealed to me, other than saving money or being married I absolutely do not understand it’s purpose. In fact, I insist telling all my girlfriends that its such a horrible idea and proceed to call them irrational lunatics! Maybe I’m just a fan of his & hers, having the option to go to his place or simply stay the night or go the hell home! I truly value my own space, respect others and believe it contributes to a “healthier” relationship, after all, if you’re not married what is the purpose of being all up in each other face 24/7? ugh…this could lead to my unconventional ideas of dating/marriage so I’ll stop there & say maybe its the zen in me….or it could be my naiveté and the fact that I’m still young in this love game but I’m sure not feeling the idea of shacking up with a guy, even if we are serious regardless of what my crazy west indian daddy would have to say.
@ashlovely,
Haha @ you calling everyone you know a lunatic. I’m half-lunatic as well by way of my lovely Bajan mother
And that’s a good point. If we want to get married we have the rest of our lives to be homeless everytime we get into an argument with hubby. Why rush into the fun?
@Me fail english?,
That’s exactly my gripe with the whole shacking things. It feels like I’ll be getting the inconveniences of marriage (sharing my bathroom, gasp!) and none of the benefits (tax breaks!)… To me, it’s like, we have the rest of our lives to be this one thing (live together), let’s enjoy this other thing while we can (live separate lives).
@ashlovely,
welcome and sh*t (i think)
@The Champ,
thanks champ & southern girl
@ashlovely,
welcome!!!
*shooting gold stars*
and
*Diva Dust v.2.0 ™ *
@ashlovely,
I know shacking up is a definite NO in my family…
As girl children in a Caribbean family with a minister for a daddy my sisters and I basically came out of the womb with the understanding that if you wanted to enjoy your existence on this earth there were certain things that you just did not or would not do.
To be honest, I don’t see shacking up as an option for me. It doesn’t really hold any appeal for me. I spent a good portion of my life sharing living space with people and now that I live at myself I am in no hurry to have someone in my space.
I find it interesting that you would try and find a scripture in the Bible that would forbid shacking up. I mean, there are scriptures about fornication (having sex with someone that isn’t your spouse which means if you’re sleeping with your bf/gf and ain’t married to that person then that would mean they ain’t your spouse and therefore you are fornicating) and yet that doesn’t stop you. So do you really think a scripture that said “thou shalt not shack up” would even stop you from moving on in? I didn’t think so. Just a thought…
@Coco,
I find it interesting that you would try and find a scripture in the Bible that would forbid shacking up
coco, i think panama would like to introduce you to his friend “things done facetiously for the sake of discussion”, because since you can’t recognize her, you’ve obviously never met
LMAO i was thinking the same thing!!! scriptures on fornicating don’t stop ppl from doing it. even if there were scriptures on pre-marital cohabitation (which is essentially “live-in fornication”) folks gon do it anyway.
I’ve never shacked up with a guy before, but I know that my family would not approve. My last boyfriend really wanted us to move in together, so he could see if we were ready for marriage. I didn’t want to because I love having my own place and I’ve seen a lot of guys get really comfortable with living together and forgetting about marriage and I didn’t want to go down that path.
@Leila,
That just proves that you were no where near ready for marriage. Shacking up to determine whether or not you’re right for each other sounds backwards. It would’ve made more sense for him to say he does want to marry you, so he wants to move in together.
Sounds like he just wanted to play house, and living w/a S.O. is not a game.
@Lili,
Shacking up to determine whether or not you’re right for each other sounds backwards.
I love this.
@Sula for the kids…,
LOL
On a personal note, I believe there’s a difference between shacking up w/a bf or gf and a fiance. I know that it’s all ‘sin in the eyes of God’, but I would feel better (and I’m sure it would appear differently from the outside, looking in) if we were betrothed.
…I suppose that doesn’t really change anything except the intent, but that counts for something IMO.
@Resident GRitS,
I agree with you on this. It’s one thing (I think) to be moving in on some let’s see where this goes/if this is gonna work/let’s go half on some rent sh!t vs. you are preparing to get married and merge your lives together.
My stepdad moved in a few months before the wedding because we already had a house and he was in an apartment. My girl and her fiance moved in together before the wedding too, to save some money and put toward the wedding among other financial things that were going on at the time (we were in grad school).
i agree with you on the intent piece. i definitely think engagement makes cohabitation a different situation.
@Resident GRitS, why? Just because you’re “betrothed” doesn’t mean that its going to happen, and engagement can end the same way a relationship can.. so in actuality there is not difference!
@Liryc,
i can’t speak for RG, but IMO the intent can be very different. as mentioned, some people move in to try to see if they want to get married which is different from wanting and planning to get married. and also, just from my experience the moving in of fiances usually happens when the wedding is right around the corner, not here’s the ring and here’s the lease.
yes, engagments can end but i think the difference is how you are going into the situation.
Well, I’ve done both. I lived with a chic I was dating, we eventually got engaged and then we broke up horribly.
With my wife, we were married within’ 4 days of her moving here (yeah, we did the online, long distance dating thing). I married her before I even knew how she sepeaated clothes or knew her sleeping routine forreal.
I was committed to both during the dating stage, but I learned enough about my ex to know that she was not the one. It wasn’t eye opening like I wouldn’t have found out if we didn’t live together, but I’m sure it sped up the process. With my wife, sure, there were things I learned that I turned a side eye too…but the commitment made me work things out with a diligence I hadn’t before.
So I guess, for me, the reason that I ain’t with shacking is because the same commitment to each other isn’t inherent. I had days with my ex that we would argue about “me and my” type stuff and I’ve never had that same type of argument with my wife. Commitment to each other, it has always been OUR.
Largely, due what works for you. For my wife and I, we talked about the two rents and shacking, and for us shacking was not something we wanted to consider.
@SauleWright,
This was some real talk.
Appreciate it.
@miss t-lee,
Thank you ma’am.
@SauleWright,
I think you make a great point about the level of commitment being different when you are shaking vs. being husband and wife.
@Suga&Spice,
When we did our premarital counseling, we talked extensively about the Covenant of Marriage and how truly important that commitment is. It was really eye opening and honestly, changed the way I saw marriage.
@SauleWright,
So I guess, for me, the reason that I ain’t with shacking is because the same commitment to each other isn’t inherent. I had days with my ex that we would argue about “me and my” type stuff and I’ve never had that same type of argument with my wife. Commitment to each other, it has always been OUR.
thats really my only issue with shacking up, the “me and mine” argument and how that affects day-to-day living and finances
@The Champ,
It truly was damn near a daily discussion when it came to everything, bills, checks, tv, dvd’s, music, etc.
@ Th… err…SauleWright,
Real, real talk.
@Sula for the kids…, heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey Sula
Ok
So its my first comment and i get to be in the top 25?
or maybe 50 by the time I finish but. . .nonetheless
Score!
Now I’m a youngin’ on the love scene and have little to NO experience in this specific situation, but I studied intimate and family relations in undergrad (for a semester ha! *said with British accent, “I should know, I’m an expert. can’t you tell by my accent?”)
ALL the research says this is no go. Based on divorce rates, marriage satisfaction survey’s, case studies you name it. Naturally, at my HBCU it was such a hot topic to the point that we had at least 2 in class debates on it.
None of this swayed me either way because as a result of my somewhat old school nature (shouts out to Nana!) I had already put a “naw, i’m cool” on the whole idea.
I will mention that a lot of the getting to know you stuff, seeing if love is real, testing the waters sh*t , one point in time was supposed to be done during the engagement period. In some cultures its customary for folks to get engaged or betrothed, move in, live together for a year or more and see if they can actually Tim Gunn it (make it work!)
When I reach this point in a relationship I’ll more than likely take this route. IMO if my man comes at me with the, baby i care deeply for you. . . cough*and-my-401K-is-in-the -dumps-. . lets move in together I’m calling flag on the play.
love is losing game:-(
Who knows though, maybe it will go upstairs for review.
@AngelicNastyness,
welcome and shyt! the welcoming committee should be along shortly with your glitter and your omlette :0)
@shatani,
Welcome wagon has omelletes now? I see I need to get back in the jackin’ game…
@Lil’T,
don’t make me send the drop squad after you. *side eye* i’m guessing these omlettes are coming from the champ because they are not Sparkly Sista approved. anywho…
@AngelicNastyness
welcome!!! *shooting gold stars*
and
*Diva Dust v. 2.0 ™ * on behalf of bbmo who is on vacay.
make yourself at home. comment early and often.
@SouthernGirl,
i’m guessing these omlettes are coming from the champ because they are not Sparkly Sista approved. anywho…
i actually stopped with the omelettes sometime in the fall. dealing with all of those chickens just got too time consuming
@The Champ,
lol
@The Champ
Replace chickens with chickenheads and I will believe you.
@shatani,
these omelets don’t have mayo do they? You know how I feel about mayo…matter of fact, I don’t like eggs either, so she can have mine too.
@AngelicNastyness,
good job for a first comment (even if your screen name makes you sound like a stripper). welcome and sh*t
I think old people take such issue with shacking because they think our marriage rates are so low… I think they believe that a man will never marry you as long as he’s “getting the milk for free.”
I haven’t shacked and I am pretty sure I wouldn’t. Sure, it’s a good idea for saving money and for testing out a marriage, but I need my space. Plus I kinda subscribe to the old folk’s theory too.
I got shacked up before as well. I don’t suggest it at all unless you have a strong tolerance for the flood of new stuff that they were hiding from you in the beginning. lol
Why is it? If more people would just be upfront about the annoying habits and neurotic impulses then we could discern whether or not we could see ourselves moving in with them. This would at least give us time to acclimate to the them and build up a resistance or let it break us. hmmmm….
I have come across beautiful women who are not worth the trouble because behind closed doors they are certifiable nuts. But this might just be my luck of the draw.
@Double J,
welcome!!! (i think)
*shooting gold stars*
and
*Diva Dust v.2.0 ™ * all for you!
@Double J,
If more people would just be upfront about the annoying habits and neurotic impulses then we could discern whether or not we could see ourselves moving in with them.
thing is, to them, those habits and impluses might n0t be that odd, so their not hiding stuff as much as just not revealing it because they dont think its important.
welcome and sh*t, btw
@The Champ,
Iono Champ. What would you say to someone that said…”Hi, My name is _______ and my habits are biting my toenails in bed, leaving dirty q-tips around, washing dishes quarterly at best, unplugging the cable box but leaving the TV on, using a different fork for everything on my plate, brushing my teeth in the kitchen sink…and ONLY in the kitchen sink, and sitting on the couch with no draws on. OH, and I snore. How are you, what’s your name?”
GONE. That’s my name.
@SauleWright,
GONE. That’s my name.
Lol! “Anonymous” is also a suitable subsitute. Thank you Bobby V.
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!
@SauleWright,
WTH? I once broke up a dude for hacking phlegm into my toilet. The water pressure was low in my building so even after he flushed I could still see it. I learned that like a week in though. How could you be with someone long enough to move in but not long enough to see them eat their toes?? That is absolutely devious on her part
@Me fail english?,
Now now now, this ain’t about ME, these is hypotheticals. I’m sayin. If I had witnessed her eating her toes, then that means she is rather flexible so the toe thing would be excusable by me…but I’m a slore so don’t mind me.
@SauleWright,
lol. Ok. For a second there I thought you were dating the Xanax chimp. Like, brushing your teeth in the kitchen sink? REALLY?
On another note I heard Jayson Williams’ wife is divorcing him because among other things…wait for it…he likes to pee in the sink!
@Me fail english?,
That’s the least of her problems. Her husband also killed his limo driver and tried to cover it up, so I’m thinking peeing in the sink is small potatoes.
@Me fail english?,
that’s unpossible!
okay… i’m a Simpsons fan. i couldn’t resist that one.
@The Champ,
People are full well they have aggravating habits. (Well if they have true friends that’ll tell them about themselves they do. lol) I know I can be annoying at times. I tell people you can take me as I am or shoot the deuces.
Btw not revealing is the same as hiding. It means you have full cognizance that you do something that can be viewed in that manner and……you choose to hide it until its too late. ex lease signings , etc….. Also if its apart of who you are it is no less important the whole. Like I say you can lie to yourself just not to me.
side note this blog is the truth. (enough of that)
If more people would just be upfront about the annoying habits and neurotic impulses then we could discern whether or not we could see ourselves moving in with them.
i feel you on this. i think ppl spend too much of the courting period hiding parts of them becuz they dont want o seem “undesirable” to their mates. but if marriage is the ulimate goal–they gon find out eventually.
i don’t think it’s necessary to move in with some one to see how they really live. any guy that has ever spent any considerable amount of time in my place, spent the night, or at the very least used my bathroom, knows my “house rules” and how OCD i am about things. i will freak out if his shoes touch my bathroom floor or he tries to wear his “outside” clothes in my bed. if he doesn’t like it he can leave. but 10 times outta 10 he’s back again the next day and deals with it to spend time with me.
I don’t even know anymore. I thought my parents had a big issue with it for real. But then my sister’s boyfriend moved into the family house and it seemed like that was ok. It blew the hell outta me. I mean, my sister, her boyfriend and my brother… living in the house. Yet just the year before, when it was me, my sister and her boyfriend sharing an apartment it was all “don’t tell daddy” and now the fool living in Daddy’s house!!!
To be honest, I don’t even think my parents care anymore. I think they’d be so happy to marry one of us off that it wouldn’t even phase them to be honest. I think my parents are taking the stand that you should only be single but so long…. and apparently 2 out of 3 of us are reaching our expiration date with them. It’s ridiculous.
@Ro,
ummm….i need more details. are they all living together with your parents?!?!?
@SouthernGirl,
lol…me too. i need to know and sh*t
The one and only time that I did it my mother quoted to me “married is honorable…” and my dad referred to me as a “silly woman”. Both quotes straight from the bible. I take it their weren’t too happy with the idea. But as you stated they may not have wanted to admit it but they knew we were getting our swerve on anyway. Heck I was 25. The fact that he was good to me and the son from my late husband didn’t matter to them.
But you know what parting ways is harder after cohabitation than if you were married. At least when getting divorced you have the judge decided who gets what. But after having just shacked you endure the what’s mine and what’s I might let you have battle to the end. I made it easy for the guy I parted from. I moved while he was at work, took what I wanted and left his crap broken up over in the corner. I was young.
I vowed to never shack again.
Now the positives of living together first is it is a true saying that you don’t really know a person until you live with them. You learn a lot and you get to decide “is this person and their quirks something I can live with for the rest of my life?”
We tend to be our true self when housed in own private environment.
@Raqi,
I moved while he was at work, took what I wanted and left his crap broken up over in the corner. I was young.
*reminding self to never break up with raqi*
@Raqi,
I have a friend now who is shacking up with his BM. He has been kicked out at least 3 times, and is now living in the “big closet” (his words not mine) of one of his friends. I was like don’t you get tired of “taking a break” and living with your mama and friends. Either you’re in or you’re out.
Not only that, but if you do have to get another place, there goes another security deposit you’ll have to pay. And what about the furniture you may have bought together? Does she keep the couch and you keep the big screen?
@V Renee,
And what about the furniture you may have bought together? Does she keep the couch and you keep the big screen?
I think this is the part that scares me the most. Not having legal rescourse to get what’s mine in case it all goes belly up….My financial sanity being a priority of utmost importance, it just gives me shivers thinking about trying to sort through (and recover from) that mess…
” Is it okay or should everybody have a place of their own no matter how much time you may spend together? If so, why?”
I don’t agree with shacking up. Everyone should have their own spot. I’ve never lived with anyone and I don’t plan to until I get married.
Call me old-fashioned. I don’t really care.
@miss t-lee,
If you want us to call you Old Fashion you’ll have to change your handle, lol.
@Lil’T,
“How you like me now?, gold teeth when I smile.” Hoody hoo!!!”
@miss t-lee is old-fashioned…,
Oh God..the mental image….gold teeth….hoody hoo…
Jesus be a respirator and a new job!
@Lil’T,
hahhahah.
I was listening to TRU yesterday…
I know…I know…lol
@miss t-lee,
TRU? o god..I thought all those cd’s were burned
@Deviant,
No sir…lmao
Aaaand – why is “How You Like Me Now” playing on my pandora innanet radio?!? Cool Moe T…
@Lil’T,
Heehee, I had on some big ass hater-blocker shades this morning was singing “The Wild, Wild West” in my head just this morning
@Lil’T,
is that a take on your name? cause i’m sure you mean kool moe dee, right?
@SouthernGirl,
Actually, it’s a take on Miss T-Lee’s name. She was quotin’ Cool Moe upthread. But I’ve referred to myself as Cool Moe T before (cuz I’m corny like dat!)
@Lil’T, awwww! I’m on pandora too!
Ha, we talked about this on my blog a few months back. Always a good topic. I personally don’t think people should shack up unless they been in a relationship for a minimum of 2 years. By that the time they’ve got to know each other’s real personality and habits. I also don’t think a couple should shack up unless they realllllly are gettin’ along great on a consistent basis. Financial reasons are not good enough for moving in with a chick. What good is the financial aspect if my sanity ends up going out the window?
@Slim Jackson,
I personally don’t think people should shack up unless they been in a relationship for a minimum of 2 years. By that the time they’ve got to know each other’s real personality and habits. I also don’t think a couple should shack up unless they realllllly are gettin’ along great on a consistent basis
lol…at that point, though, why not just get married and sh*t?
@The Champ,
Marriage after 2 years? I mean…idk man.lol. If I’ve known her for 6 years and we been in a deep relationship for 2 years, then it’s a possibility. I really don’t wanna marry an axe murderer.
@Slim Jackson,
As Common once said: it doesn’t take the whole day to recognize sunshine!
@YGB,
Thank you.
@YGB,
The Oscar for dopest placement of a Common quote goes to YGB. That was fantastic and on point. Bravo my good friend, bravo.
@SauleWright,
*Coyly* – Thank you kind sir!
@Slim Jackson,
lol, 2 years is a long-ass time relationship wise. i cant even say its like dog years, more like spider years
@The Champ,
Yo the stats say that that second year if you get engaged in that time frame you have better odds of getting side by side burrial plots.
@Slim Jackson,
Yeah, I’m just gonna assume that you’re dating young ladies, or ladies with no biological clock – because the 30 and over sisters are not havin’ it. If you don’t love her by now (2 yrs in) you will never, never, never love her….woooooo….
@Lil’T,
Let the church say Amen.
I’m 35, and if I were to live with a man right this minute, my mother would be BESIDE HERSELF WITH JOY.
Because there is a man in the house to protect lil ole me.
*rolls eyes*
As my mother ages, she gets more and more strange.
I have shacked up, I will shack up again at some point I am sure.
@Cheryl,
I’m 35, and if I were to live with a man right this minute, my mother would be BESIDE HERSELF WITH JOY.
lol, whats interesting is the fact that the only person so far who’s said that their people would be ok with them shacking up just happens to be white. maybe it really is cultural thing
I think this may be an age issue. Not the age of the granfolks, but our age. Ro mentioned earlier that her folks got a lot more lax with the rules once they start pushing for her and her sibs to “settle down”. Same here.
My parents were very strict, especially when it came to boys when I was younger. But I’m gettin’ ready to turn 30. I have a totally different relationship with my mom now that I’m officially welcomed at the “grown-up” table. Her only concern with me shacking up is my financial health because she trusts my judgement on men (and she knows how I feel about my “space” – I don’t like to share it!) At this point, I am the “settled” one and mom is flighty and unwilling to commit to one person (1 steady SO and 2 waiting in the wings at 61, my mom is a p.i.m.p!)
I went about the whole process backwards – needed a roommie ($) and ended up in a relationship. Totally against how either of us would have done it (I would never advise this!), but it’s worked out beautifully. Funny, but being that both of us are nerdy homebodies we probably wouldn’t have met any other way.
@Lil’T,
I went about the whole process backwards – needed a roommie ($) and ended up in a relationship
i guess thats better than wanting a relationship and ending up with just a roommie, lol
@The Champ, lol!
@The Champ,
You ain’t neva lied.
@The Champ,
Truer words were never spoken.
@Lil’T, “she knows how I feel about my “space” – I don’t like to share it!”
I”m the same way. I don’t know why, but I just like to have my own space. I love it when family and friends come to visit, but I get happy when they leave and I get my place to myself again.
@Leila,
Hmph. I’m down right antsy after company has been at my place for more than 2.5 hours….I start yawning and sh*t, throwin’ hints. Stay too long at my place and I’ll get real Martin-y on yo azz!
@Lil’T,
Your mom is my (s)hero! Let me be 61 and single,p.i.m.p’ing won’t even begin to describe it.
And I find the way you guys met to be very cute and romantic. I can appreciate the nerdiness of it all.
@Sula for the kids…,
I call my mom, her steady and their friends the New Xtreme Teens – cuz they ACT just like teenagers (drunken hot tub party, anyone? what’s that smell coming from the campsite? That’s not cigarette smoke!) but they have more MONEY to play around with and a higher drinking tolerance. Which, in my opinion, makes them 3x as dangerous!
@Lil’T,
Awww, peep that lifestyle! I love it.
Jesus be a retirement in Club Med, amen!
“Now maybe it was mentioned as a joke, but you begin to mull it over. I mean, in today’s society who CAN’T afford to try to save money? With the economy in the outhouse crapper the way it is, every little penny counts. You can consolidate bills and best of all – you get to live with the one you love; you get to wake up in the bask of their glow and their scent.”
This is where i gotta call bullshyt on the love!!! btw..im on the fence with shacking up. But with that said, the above is a situation of “convience”. Not because you love me, but rather so you can save 2500k on your living expenses?
If a man approached me with THIS reason..”cause its cheap” (aka i can get regular a!ss on demand AND I’m saving a grip or two…thats where he would have to go fyck himself, literally and figuratively. I’m sorry.
The savings issue is not even compelling..when i peel deeper its rather disrespectful. Just on the surface, your suggesting to a man that he no longer really has to pull weight, when life gets hard, he can come live with you. T
his presupposition IS NOT what quality male prospective partners do. If he can’t make HIS life work in a recession and needs a “convenient woman bailout” with no other promise for the future other than “we’ll just test see how it goes”…well now you got a roomate.
i have no problem with roommates. but just call it what it is and don’t try and go and put love in it.
***note this reply may have been nicer if I had had some coffee by 9:01 am, I can’t be sure, which is why i should go to starbucks rhat now***
@Princess Duvet aka “The Princess Has Spoken”,
his presupposition IS NOT what quality male prospective partners do. If he can’t make HIS life work in a recession and needs a “convenient woman bailout” with no other promise for the future other than “we’ll just test see how it goes”…well now you got a roomate.
(i think) p’s suggesting that it goes both ways though, that both parties benefit financially
@The Champ,
“(i think) p’s suggesting that it goes both ways though, that both parties benefit financially”
i gotta disagree..i think what a man gains financially is what a woman loses emotionally in this setup (their resources aren’t even REALLY pooled. Its still his and hers). Im sorry i cant put any potential financial savings win/win on the fact that a man proposes “co-shackage” out of convenience. Thats money at that point that doesn’t even matter. I still gotta feel good about it…and if i dont, any potential “gain”..isn’t really worth it long run. At least not to me.
times get hard..i can get a room mate. I doubt I’d be entertaining “let’s move in” from my man first.
@Princess Duvet aka “The Princess Has Spoken”,
their resources aren’t even REALLY pooled. Its still his and hers
yea they are. you can split that comcast bill and sh*t, enabling you to get every channel
@The Champ, not if her channels are basic and yours are premium she may not see the need to spilt a $150 bill but hey $85 now thats where she was cool with but yall had to move in!!!
i feel you completely on the “cohabitation of convenience” AND starbucks tips. thank heavens SB is only a block away!! (since i’ve given up coffee, apple chai is my new fave drink)
@Gem-nastics,
“thank heavens SB is only a block away!! ”
thats where im headed right now. Im waiting to oneday see a Starbucks ad on here!!!
First, I think the problem a lot of older black people have with shaking up is the overt appearance of fornication, pre-marital sex. Even if they know you’re not a virgin, nothing says ” Yes mama, I am a fornicating heffa” like shacking up. And, you won’t find anything inthe Bible about shacking up specifically, or uses the term sahcking up, but as several ladies have mentioned, you will find plenty on fornication….My parents, especially my mom, are completely against shacking for those reasons, and many more. But it might change as I get older…idk
For me, I don’t see myself living with my boyfriend or fiance before marriage. I just don’t see the purpose of it. My parents, my brother, my grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins all got married w/o living together first. And they are all committed to their marriages.
And if a man really wants to live with his future wife, then marry her and live with your wife. Por ejemplo, my friend’s best friend was engaged to be married, and she and her fiance were having a house built. The house was finished about 6 months b4 the wedding, and guess what they did…they got married. They took their happy azzes to the justice of the peace, and got married so they could live in their new home as a married couple.
If you are already committed to your relationship, and you know you want to marry her, living with her and seeing her quirky living habits should not change your commitment to the relationship. In terms of personality characteristics, I think these are things you should know already, especially if you are engaged or seriously considering marriage. I wouldn’t move in with a man to get to know him better, or to see if I want to marry him or if I could live with him. As for the economy, saving money is not a good enough reason for me to live with someone that is not husband. I’d rather cut coupons….
Lastly, I like my space. I like having my own spot to relax and chill and be quiet and enjoy the things in my life that have nothing to do with anyone else, but me and my pleasure and enjoyment. And my husband is the only person for whom I would compromise my personal space….
@N.I.A. fabuloussince1982….,
“First, I think the problem a lot of older black people have with shaking up is the overt appearance of fornication, pre-marital sex. ”
you say older are you talking 55+ parents? or are we saying a granparent closer to 80 and up?
I think our parent’s generation KNOW their kids are having sex..most of them came of age in the sexual revolution..and they did it too and lots of it.
I think some of the “old school” issue is just age old wisdom-with a modern twist-its less about the se!x and more about..”is he actually gonna marry that girl now that she done made it super easy for him NOT to?”
@Princess Duvet aka “The Princess Has Spoken”,
I can agree with that…with my grandparents (when they were still here) and my parents, it was the “he is not gonna marry that child now” issue. I remember my grandmother saying that about one of my cousins who moved in with his gf. Every other day, she said that he would never marry that girl now that she is letting him play house.
@N.I.A. fabuloussince1982….,
“If you are already committed to your relationship, and you know you want to marry her, living with her and seeing her quirky living habits should not change your commitment ”
Agreed. But this just reminded me of during a summer college when I moved in with my sis. Mind you my sister and I grew up in the same house, same mom and dad, 6 year age diff. We spoke everyday, really close. But that was a summer in hell. Sleeping over and having the option to leave when I wanted to go back home made it difficult for me to remember what a tyrant she could be. But it was all on full blast when I had no exit. I’m not sure what changes the dynamic so drastically but some people are like Jekyll and Hyde. She’s the closest person to me in the world but I will fight Kimbo himself to keep myself from living under her roof again.
@Me fail english?,
Hahahaha!!!
I love my sister to death but after sharing a bedroom for 14 years, we’re nearly at each other’s throats after 2 days…lol
We could not live together again.
@miss t-lee, AMEN.CHURCH.PREACH.TABERNACLE.MOSQUE!!!
@Me fail english?,
LOL… my sister is over a decade older than me and by the time i was old enough to talk and walk, she was out of the house. so we never really lived together. but i’ll be damned to hades if i ever lived with that chick. i spent 3 nites with her one summer when i was in college and after she locked me in her back room so she could get high with her homeboy in the front room, i was DONE.
but truth of the matter is, i knew that chick was looney from the get go. staying with her was no different than our phone convos–just outta order all the way around.
@Gem-nastics
Why did she lock you in the back room? Did she think you were going to steal the weed?
basically what e-twin said. at first she tried to act like her and dude needed to talk without me being around. but i wasn’t bout to walk out into the mean streets of DC by myself. so i kept askin why i had to go hide in the back room where there was NO tv. she finally admitted she wanted to get her smoke on without me knowing she was a weedhead. and she knows i hate smoke and don’t wanna be around it. *shrugs*
@Gem-nastics, she locked me in her back room so she could get high with her homeboy in the front room, i was DONE.
aww that’s kinda cute, she didn’t wanna expose gemmy to weed…lmao, let me stop. that aint right.
@Me fail english?,
Lol! The same thing happened to me. Except it was my sister who moved in with me, 8 years difference. We’ve lived under the same roof all our lives, but it was definitely an adjustment. First, we hadn’t really been living together for the past 10 years, so we had to get reacquainted to our adult selves (me @27 her at 19)… It took some getting used to (she’ll probably tell you I’m a tyrant… but I swear I’m not
)… The thing is this actually reaffirms the whole committment process. There was no other option in my head and hers (and our parents of course), there was no way my younger sister will be living in the same town as me going to college full time and me letting her fend for herself paying a whole rent and everything. It was just never an option in my head…. or hers. So we made our differences work and now after 2 years and a half, I think living with my sister is the best thing since almond butter!
When there is a committment from the get-go, people make the necessary arrangements to make it all work.
At least, in my humble opinion.
@Sula for the kids…,”When there is a committment from the get-go, people make the necessary arrangements to make it all work”….
I definitely agree…and I live with my sister now, and we don’t have any major issues or problems. Probably b/c our living habits are so much alike and we are committed to supporting each other….
@N.I.A. fabuloussince1982….,
In a nutshell and sh*t.
I dont have much to say about the topic, but am I wrong or was there a Blank Man reference in there somewhere?
@osyeP,
If so, I missed it.
I love that movie too…lol
@miss t-lee is old fashioned…,
There was… “slap me around and call me susan!” My favorite part of the movie!!!
@Ro,
That’s it…lol
When I was in HS we used to quote that ish all the time. Especially that little song he would sing when he was running “I’m almost there now, da da da da …”or something like that. Ha-haaaa
Oooh. This is an easy one.
I am from old Black folks. Of all the times I have been with a guy and his relatives, I have never slept in the same bedroom with a dude in his family’s home. Nor have I ever even tried to sleep in the bed with a man in my parents’ house.
If a man can’t afford to live alone and has to shack, he probably can’t financially afford to be the head of the household so why would a woman want to hitch her wagon to this man? A man who wants 24 hour access because it’s financially beneficial NOT because he wants to build a life with her?? Path of least commitment (Nikilovely, 2005).
I would NEVER tell my parents I was living with someone. I have semi-lived with someone before. Semi because I still paid rent at another place. One day his mom called at like 7:15 in the morning and asked to speak to me. I was SOOOO embarrassed. Cus this meant she knew I was staying there. And if she knew, his dad, aunts, uncles, and half near dead granny knew and probably thought I was a whore and that they’d raised a weak man who took the path of least commitment. Because if he, as a man, really wanted to be with me, he would legally make me his next of kin. BTW, he came from a long line of married people. I think that helps in determining what the family thinks of the man who is shaking up.
Why do old Blacks feel this way? Shacking up often is a pre-step to unwed pregnancy. Children made and born out of wedlock are still a huge deal to old Blacks (and people raised by old Blacks). Not saying that unwed pregnancy doesn’t happen when ppl have separate addressed. BUT living together says to old folks, “Fuggit. We’re gonna purposely let you know we’re screwing, on the regulah. We’re not even going to half-way pretend. And you better come to our baby shower, buy gifts and ignore that we’re contributing to the 70% statistic.”
@Hostess,
“I am from old Black folks. Of all the times I have been with a guy and his relatives, I have never slept in the same bedroom with a dude in his family’s home. ”
totally agree here. its a respect thing. but on the side of the parent, its rather delusional if they don think they’re 28 year old son is having se!x with the girl sleeping in the guest bedroom …or better yet, the hotel LOL.
re: semi living together..i think thats kinda what most people do, long term. And if you can’t figure out the basic quirks there…giving you enough “heads up” on who they in fact are and their personal habits, then you DON’T really know your S.O. period.
@Princess Duvet aka “The Princess Has Spoken”, It’s about discretion. They know we’re screwing. But they also believe that you treat and behave a certain way when you’re around your elders. They also assume all young people should and will respect their elders.
Our generation has no class and knows nothing about discretion. I’m still not trying to embarrass my family nor do I deal with men who are willing to bring shame to either family. Nerp. Nope. And, naw.
@Hostess,
“It’s about discretion. They know we’re screwing. But they also believe that you treat and behave a certain way when you’re around your elders. They also assume all young people should and will respect their elders.
”
I agree..this maybe 2520 cultural spillage where some of them wanted to be “friends” with their kids. There still should be some kind of respectual distinction even as a grown as!s kid, even as you stay yo a!ss in a hotel when they come to visit you and your bf or vice versa.
@Hostess,
exactly!! my mom (who is not religious in the least) has no desire to know my intimate business, tho i’m sure she suspects i’m sexually active. but she told me if i ever brought a man home that wasn’t my husband, we’d have to sleep in separate rooms. becuz for her (and my dad) it’s about respect and decency. in their house, under their roof, no unsanctioned bed-sharing situations will be going on. and i respect their rules.
@Gem-nastics,
my parents are the same way, and have old me the same thing. When my brother bought home his future wife, he slept in his room, and she lept in the guest room downstairs, and my brother didn’t dare walk down those stairs and down the hall for a little late nookie. It’s all about respecting your parents home and the rules they have set.
even if i was married, it seems so odd to me to get it on in my parents house–esp since my room shares a wall with theirs (and my bathroom shares a wall with theirs)!!! me and my hubby would have to either get our john legend “we just don’t care” on in public or get a hotel room.
@Gem-nastics,
i opt for “just don’t care”..
the whole world does not need to know any one of your 10 inches, e-boo.
@Gem-nastics,
I would definitely have to get a hotel room. My dad wakes up periodically to walk arond the house, go int the kitchen, etc, and I do not want him hearing the sounds of love making coming from room, which also happens to be right next to his room.
@Hostess,
I am in awe of this post. Bravo! **Applause**
@Hostess,
i can get with this whole thread but ummmm…..would you mind sharing what his mama said when she wanted to talk to you? lol. if not, it’s cool. i was just wondering because i just cannot imagine…
@SouthernGirl, She was cool. She wanted me to go dress shopping with her. When we went shopping, she did mention that I need to be ‘careful of where I sleep’. She only called his house because she’d called mine right before and I didn’t answer.
@Hostess,
ahhhhh….okay. i thought she might be calling to say she was on her way to come cut you or something. lol. glad that worked out.
@Hostess,
Of all the times I have been with a guy and his relatives, I have never slept in the same bedroom with a dude in his family’s home. Nor have I ever even tried to sleep in the bed with a man in my parents’ house.
Yes ma’am! I remember once we all went to the country for one of great-aunts funeral. My oldest cousin who was 33 at the time AND engaged had to sleep in a different room than her fiance. It was like “yes we know y’all fool around and sh!t, but just don’t throw it in our faces”…
Yeah I come from oooooold school black folks as well.
My parents didn’t care about me moving in with my girl . . . they were just happy I was moving out of their house!
@eff yo couch,
my aunt & uncle were the same way about my cousin….
eh-i dunno. my mother it totally against shacking up…her words are, “you’ll be walking around here barefoot and pregnant in no time!” i guess since she’s a single parent, she’s looking out for my best interest, but dang….can a sista get a little credit?? i’m 27, made through undergrad and i’m about to be done with grad school this year…and guess what…i still don’t have any kids!! but she’s so sure i’d morph into fertile myrtle as soon as we signed the lease. wth?
i think the old generations have good intentions with their warnings of moving in together, but at the same time they still end up taking us as dumb dumb dummies when it comes to the basic ish. with that being said, i most certainly think marriage should be in the near future when making the decision to move in with your SO. if not, then what you’re really asking for is a roommate…..and i personally hate roommates.
pow ta dow watch out now…it’s the little one and it’s not bow wow!
)
I just died @ “fertile myrtle”
Well Susan,
I’m not against living with a man before marriage. And I literally mean BEFORE marriage. I wouldn’t be interested in living with a man without a ring and plans being made and carried out for our wedding. I just cannot go into marriage blind. I am terribly, TERRIBLY afraid of divorce, and in my mind, I feel that if we live together first (Because you reeeeeeally don’t know someone until you live with them), I will know whether you’re the right man to continue on with, or whether I need to pack my ish and go.
@8th Wonder,
“Well Susan,”
*sniggling*
Why shack up before you jump the broom? Me….I loved my freedom.
A friend just broke up w/ a guy who insisted they move in together before they got married.
They ain’t livin together now…and probably won’t be gettin married.
no comment on white folks……
@KingPine,
why did they break up?
@The Champ,
the dude was un-grown….and she got tired of puttin up with it.
if you clean, cook, wash, etc….before y’all shack up….ain’t no reason to stop doin it once you shack up….
@KingPine,
*stealing term ‘un-grown’ for my vocab*
@SouthernGirl,
lolol
somehow…i know it *will* come back and bite me
I think this has a lot to do with the black church encouraging marriage and parents fears that shacking up doesn’t lead to marriage. Also considering that there are far fewer successful marriages in the black community in comparison with other groups, I think black elders are weary of anything that is perceived to inhibit marriage. Although, I don’t think that shacking up has anything to do with the statistics.
@Erika,
I think this has a lot to do with the black church encouraging marriage and parents fears that shacking up doesn’t lead to marriage.
**nodding head**
Seriously, are Black folk REALLY that afraid of shacking? Really?
Don’t we have a high rate of people who are not married?
Aren’t close to 70% of Black children born to single moms? Not that all of these moms are living with their BD’s, but surely some of them are. And many black couples who have been together for years, live together and have kids did not marry due to financial reasons.
Case in point: I am a “first time” homebuyer, and my SO currently owns an investment home out of state. If we get married and try to buy a home we lose alot of the down payment and closing cost assistance available to me as a first time buyer. Thus, “shacking up” and marrying later is the better option financially. I think this goes beyond convenience and into the area of long term planning.
@Lil’T,
Don’t we have a high rate of people who are not married?
to many people, this is one of the negative by-products of shacking up
@Lil’T,
And many black couples who have been together for years, live together and have kids did not marry due to financial reasons.
Am a bit confused: are you saying these couples married for reasons other than finances? Or are you saying the reason they did not get married was the financial situation?
@YGB,
I’m saying that the reason they did not get married was for financial reasons. The woman and the kids qualify for more assistance if there is no man in the house, even if said man doesn’t make much money.
@Lil’T,
Oh okay. That’s screwed up though coz they had kids they could not afford and thus could not get married coz of the very same kids! On the other hand though each situation is different so I can understand.
I think that its a cultural thing somewhat. I was having a related convo with a friend the other day about why in our culture we are so quick to move out of our parents spots. I mean for me personally, I would have struggled less if I would have stayed until I was ready to get married or buy my first home. There was something about the freedom and wanting to BE GROWN.
Anyway…the shacking thing is such a personal choice. I guess it would have to depend on the situation and each persons background. I mean if you’ve been married and things didnt work out favorably with that marriage, you MAAAAY want to try living together first. While for some people would rather build that living together relationship after marriage.
I do agree (and speaking from experience) that you do not FULLY know someone until you live with them *smh*. Even spending a lot of time in his or her spot isnt the same as actually living together.
BTW, I have been married & have kids and I think my mama-n-nem would loose their minds if I just moved in with somebody. I mean they would get over it and just think it was Yaa being Yaa AGAIN. They do feel like if a guy wanted to be with me and have the benefits of being with me then he should marry me. But at this point in my life I would live with someone and not marry him.
@Yaa,
I was having a related convo with a friend the other day about why in our culture we are so quick to move out of our parents spots.
this is true. white people (white women especially) seem to be more likely to live with the parents until they’re actually ready to buy a house or get married.
@Yaa,
I think you might be onto something here. I have been puzzled by the need/want of my American friends to get out of the house, or even the fact that their parents want them out of the house (I would have been delighted if my parents wanted me out of the house at 18!Lol!)
In my culture, it’s actually quite the opposite. My cousin moved back home a couple of years ago and is financially independent and all that jazz… but guess what? Her parents called an “emergency” family reunion when she wanted to live on her own (gasp!)
… The parents just couldn’t fathom the reason why she wanted to!
Back home, it’s very, very common place for unmarried women to stay with her parents for as long as she is single. Literally, moving out of your father’s house into your husband’s house. A lot of it is cultural spill over from past customs.
Like everything in life, it has its good points and its drawbacks.
@Sula for the kids…, My mom told me when I was 18 I was grown! I was like WHAT THE HELL!! But yeah most of my friends that aren’t from the states pretty much live at home with their peeps until they either get married, move out of the area (has to be job related though), or buy their own place. It seems to give them an advantage financially. I was stressed out with bills and things by the time I was 20! My daughter is 20 now and the thought of her living off her college campus had me in tears LOL! I really want to change this way of thinking within my family and give my kids the jump start they need to be successful and if that means them staying until they are financially or emotionally ready..then so be it. But this is my thinking LOL they probably want to get away from my smothering behind.
as one who has recently ended a shackin’ situation…i’m on the fence about it…on the one hand…i say, “Never a-freakin’-gain”…but on the other hand…i say, “It’s easier (and cheaper) to put out a cheatin’ live-in than it is to divorce a cheatin’ husband.” (Got rid of the cheater in 16.8 hours flat. My divorce took eight months.)
that being said…the biggest issue that i have with shackin’ more than anything is not the “should we? or shouldn’t we? and who should we tell or not tell”…it’s more to the point of “why do you want to?”
if you want us to move in together because you enjoy my company just that much and you want to spend just that much time with me and you want to experience my morning dragon on a daily basis…(an aside, SmartMouth Mouthwash really does work on that morning dragon thing…) and because you want to have philosophical discussions about the position of the toilet seat or who should do the dishes or why we should take turns getting up and getting that after sex wipe off towel…and because you really do want to do a ‘test marriage’…then by all means…load up your stereo, your xbox, all your other worldly possessions (including those 13 single unmatched socks with the wholes in ‘em) and let’s get to shackin’…
however…if you really need me to move in with you so that you can afford your rent because ya’ boy Effron just moved out or because you lost that money-under-the-table side job that you had or because you finally decided to stop sellin’ weed…basically, if you trying to improve your economic situation with my contribution to your household…i’m gone stay over here where i am…cause i’m handling mine with NO problem….
@SexyCool,
so you’ve had to break up with two straight cheaters?
@The Champ,
not two straight, as in one right after the other…there were eleven years, two other serious relationships, a few short lived escapades, an FWB episode or two and a one night stand or three in between…
and the ex-hubby…he didn’t get caught cheating…he gallantly came home and informed me that ‘it was him and not me’ that made him not want to be married anymore…(i found out after the fact that he actually left me to move in with a stripper that he’d met a month before at a night club)…
the ex-shackee was caught out at the mcdonald’s on old nat’l and godby road with some old chick (and no, I wasn’t stalking him, it was serendipity…god really does have a sense of humor…lol)
@SexyCool,
lol…you sure you’re not really winter santiago, or one of the protagonists in an e.lynn harris book?
@The Champ,
bwahahaha
@SexyCool,
“the ex-shackee was caught out at the mcdonald’s on old nat’l and godby road with some old chick (and no, I wasn’t stalking him, it was serendipity…god really does have a sense of humor…lol)”
OH Sh!t!
@Dom,
tell me about it…and sh!t…
@Champ,
i couldn’t make this up if i tried…and sh!t…lmAo…
I live with my girl now. I told my parents I was considering it before I did it and they were both cool with it. My grandparents didn’t trip either. Outside of those folks I could care less about anyone not liking it. But for the most part I haven’t received any negative feedback from my family.
@Deviant, So if they would have said NO you wouldnt have moved in with her?
@Yaa,
I was gonna do what I wanted to do It’s just nice to know they cool with it. I think they knew I was gonna proceed with it anyway. They just wanted to meet her. They did and they were happy.
@Deviant,
Does her family feel the same way?
@YGB,
That’s the real question.
@YGB,
A few voiced their initial concerns but I’ve met all of the movers and shakers and none of them stabbed me or poisoned my food so Its cool now. Not speaking for her but I don’t think any opposition on their part would have slowed down our progression. We both over 30 doesn’t really matter what they think (She said something to that effect before). I was concerned initially because I don’t seek to disrespect any elders beliefs but it isn’t a problem now anyway. Her fam enjoys Deviance in their lives.
neither one of us is religous or has old fashioned views so anyone using that as a rationale for anything would have been wasting their breath. What works for one couple aint gonna work for them all. Some people cant live together before marriage and some work better cause they did just that. Their is no surefire solution or method. You do what feels right for you.
@Deviant,
You do what feels right for you
And that’s the word. There ain’t nothing else to it.
@YGB,
My folks weren’t exactly excited. I’d co-habbed before and it ended badly.
I don’t think I’ve ever gotten any real moral badgering from my fam. They’re pretty much “Do you, just be smart about it” when it comes major life decisions. I do have a few who will try to “thump” me over the head but I’m an adult and at some point they have to let me act as such.
As far as I shacking goes, marriage (or the promise thereof) has nothing to do with the success rate and vice versa.
One of my mom’s best friends from high school has been shacking for at least 30 years with her “baby daddy” and they’re still together, never married.
Both my aunt and a good friend of mine, waited until they were married to move in with their husbands AND give up the goods. And they both have what I would view as successful marriages.
On the flip side, I know plenty of folks that endured all kinds of bullschitt for the sake of staying married. I’m talking beatdowns, cheating, second families, ignoring child abuse. I know people married right now cause they felt obligated to “do right” and “take it to the next level”, instead of shacking up.
I’ll take a love shack over a broken down palace any day. Real talk.
Everything ain’t for everybody. It’s about the level of commitment you’re willing to achieve and how much effort you’re willing to put forth. But ultimately, it’s about what makes YOU happy.
Be yourself and fuqq the haters.
I’d rather take the next step by moving in together than take the next step by getting married. You never know a person till you live with them and once marriage hits, it’s too late.
@J. McFly, I think that it depends on the relationship too. I am torn with this topic. I would move in with somebody but there would still be the potential of a break up whether married or not. I would still have invested my time. Cracking up over you saying ITS TOO LATE. Like marriage is a death sentence LMAO!
My friend (soon to be ex-friend) told me last night that I was putting too much pressure on him and that he feels like I am trying to enslave him.WTF!!! Your comment reminded me of this LOL!
This just in from my very elderly nana who has outlived three husbands (paraphrased):
If you want 24 access to your SO, why come you can’t just head over to the JOP, them move in?? FYI–it costs less than a nice pair of shoes to get hitched. So all this living together first is a hustle and women are falling for it. Shack and give him the opportunity to find a TANGIBLE reason to not marry your ass cus he already has some feeling where he doesn’t WANT to marry you–otherwise, he’d respectfully ask you to marry him instead of shack.
You girls wouldn’t accept a job where they only paid you 1/3 of your pay. But you’ll turn around and let a man give you 1/3 of what’s right! real men don’t try to get away with giving 1/3 just cus someone is dumb enough to accept it.
Nana has spoken. She also added a brief personal lecture just for her eldest grandbaby. *sigh* Now I bet she’s on the phone telling my brother to come down here and make sure I haven’t bumped my head.
@Hostess,
Blessins be on Nana
plus mama told me she’d whoop my ass if I even thought about shackin up
@Hostess,
Why does your Nana sound just like my “Dear Dear”? *loving it mayne!*
Them ol’ women got wisdom.
@miss t-lee, This is why I keeps my nana in my Five. Humh. I should probably call her back and get clarification on what the other 2/3 are.
@Hostess,
please do. lol.
@Hostess,
Nana is right. I know too many men and women who served as bridesmaids and groomsmen in their parents wedding because Daddy finally married Mommy. I even have a friend whose parents just aren’t getting married. They have 10+ children together and some kids have the dad’s last name and others have the mom’s.
@Voiceofreason,
*”Replace too many women” with “too many people.” Though the idea of women serving as groomsmen is a bit funny.
@Voiceofreason,
*deep echo kinda singing voice*
“In the year 2000…….”
Women will be groomsmen. Sometimes the groom’s “best man” is a lady.
@Lil’T, I don’t think any of my male ‘friends’ have women who’d think it was cute or cool for me to be standing up there, in the front of the church, on the dude’s side of the alter. More importantly, what does a female attendant on the groom’s side wear? Some type of Gawd awful not-tux? I’ll pass.
@Hostess,
Umm, sorry but this IS the new millenium. I can respect an old-fashioned wedding, but I’ve been to weddings where the groom’s best “man” is a woman because: his best friend is a woman or his sister (cousin, whatever).
Now, some couples are cool with putting any close female relations on the bride’s side just cuz, but some couples do it a little differently. I’ve seen the “Best Woman” in a pretty, demure dress that matched the color scheme of the groom’s party.
A couple’s wedding is an expression of their lives and their styles….no need for you to do it, but it is an option.
@Lil’T, I’m old fashion so I have never been to one of these weddings. And since birds of a feather tend to flock together, I doubt any of my friends would have one of these new millennium weddings.
@Lil’T,
I love that Conan bit too!
@Hostess,
“why come…”
Haha, love it.
@Hostess,
Your nana sounds just like my mémé… Lol!
@Hostess,
Stats say that the pre-marrital-co-habitators, have an increased risk of divorce…
@WuDaMan,
Stats say whatever the statman (or his sponsor) wants them to say. I wouldn’t use them to make any life decisions.
@Deviant,
Yeah, cuz the stats said I shouldn’t be alive or out of jail or college educated right now. I also got a lil ocd so w/ #s being big in my life… uh Jesus be a hobby. Now U N I both know how data is generated and processed. & I can definately speak for me knowing that scientists trying to hone in on and understand biological processes (these are unfinished homework, incorrect unfinished homework, complicated homework, homework where the variables of the variables vary & some of them we can’t even see or measure). I hear you. But wish I could see you.
@WuDaMan,
How were these stats derived?
Assuming they asked a bunch of divorced people if they lived together prior to getting married, did they consider other factors (age, length of marriage, cultural background, parental status,etc.)?
You can always contour the numbers to your perspective. I do it for a living. I should know.
@DeviantGirl,
Yeah it’s a part of my job too. I totally know how statistics can get all twisted. These stats were generated by psychologists and census data. I actually heard it from a psychologist. I don’t know how I feel about you two pulling the split n shyt. I loved the mystery behind who could I be talking to… N E way. Always great to hear from you 2.
I’m comment 401 WHAT!
I dunno, maybe its just me but i think the whole issue of shacking up being an issue has less to do with the shackers and more to do with the people judging the situation. its just like the post on sex on the first night: if you kno who you are and you kno what your intentions are, what does it matter what other people think about what you’re gonna do?
everybody’s saying my mom, my grandma, my family would feel this or that way about it, but the main person that matters is you b/c its your situation (or maybe thats just my standpoint; i havent had the cohesive family unit so maybe i just don’t care about what my family thinks).
As someone who was shooting for the stars and still got shot down for one reason or another by her supposed family unit i have learned that people are gonna judge your situation regardless, you’re never gonna have had spent enough time getting to know someone you married, their job is never going to be good enough, they’re never gonna be smart enough, in other words i have realized people will judge you no matter how shiny your situation is (as per my personal experience anyway) so who gives a crap about how they feel about my shacking up? not me.
as someone who made the decision to live with my boyfriend as a matter of a financial decision with the full on intent (and discussion) of us getting married with complete disregard to whomever thought what i just feel like its kind of nonsense to say well i am keeping from making this decision because of values that are not even mine.
JMO
@shay,
“As someone who was shooting for the stars and still got shot down for one reason or another by her supposed family unit i have learned that people are gonna judge your situation regardless, you’re never gonna have had spent enough time getting to know someone you married, their job is never going to be good enough, they’re never gonna be smart enough, in other words i have realized people will judge you no matter how shiny your situation is…”
I totally agree!!! Parents are especially like that….never good enough…
@shay,
I feel you on this. I care what Mama n nem think, but who do you think instilled a rebellious spirit in me in the first place? That’s right – mama n nem!
@shay
“its just like the post on sex on the first night: if you kno who you are and you kno what your intentions are, what does it matter what other people think about what you’re gonna do?”
I am SOO with you on this. I don’t want to shack up because I DON’T want to shack up. My mother once hinted that me and the beau should think about combing rent. I looked at her crazy and was like “No thank you. I like having my own space.”
She even asked me why he didn’t have a key once when I rushed to meet him at my house. Once again I had to give Mommy Dearest the side eye.
Bless her heart. She just wants some grandkids.
Personally, I’ve had a roommate every where I’ve lived and this is my first time living completely and totally on my own and I love it! I can’t see why anyone would want to give that up! For me it’s the best of both worlds. Stay when i want you to stay, leave cuz you don’t live here and no, you’re not invited to do so either.
I used to think that shacking up would be a way to tell if I wanted to do the “happily ever after” thing. I never understood why the “boo at the time” was against giving up that freedom and willing to pay two rents instead of one, but now… I do. To a point. I can’t see myself paying two rents, but i can certainly understand not wanting to give up that luxury.
I love my space. I’ve cherished my independence since age 2 and living on my own just rekindled my love of that.
@Ro, “For me it’s the best of both worlds. Stay when i want you to stay, leave cuz you don’t live here and no, you’re not invited to do so either.”
I agree.
@Ro,
lol…since 2?
@The Champ,
Oh yeah… when I was 2 I read the children’s book “I Can Do It Myself” been saying it ever since.
The one thing I learned about shacking up, is that I need to put a sleeper sofa in my office.
@WestIndianArchie,
what happened?
@The Champ,
Every man needs some space of his own.
IMO great relationships (married or shacked up) fall apart cause folks don’t really have enough space.
@WestIndianArchie,
Truth!
I am a woman who needs her own space sometimes. One of my exes is an ex for this particular reason – like damn why you all up under me? I can’t get with the doing everything together all the time business!
@WestIndianArchie,
i mean what happened to the rest of your comment? you usually leave nothing less than 400 words
@The Champ,
LMAO! STOP!
shacking up is not something i ever wanted to do. i guess that’s the old fashioned part of me and hearing all the drama it caused when i was growing up and other folks in the family did it. however, i did fall into living with my SO (at the time) a few years ago. blame it on katrina.
he brought up the topic once when we were back home (pre-katrina) and i said no. besides the fact that i didn’t want to, he was younger than me and i felt like there were some things he needed to experience on his own first and living alone was one of them. anywho…katrina hits and the plan fell to pieces. i had already been accepted for grad school so i was leaving in sept anyway. plan was for him to follow in jan (and follow with his own school/living plan in order).
but they lost everything. i came up to chicago from dallas. he was stuck in a family friend’s house with about 10 people for 2 months. there was nothing to go back to so he just came up. my mama wasn’t really happy about it (as i could tell from the stony silence i received when i told her he was coming) but she said her piece and kept it moving. again, it was supposed to be temporary which i think satisfied her (and me) at the time.
but you know it didn’t turn out that way. on top of starting grad school i was dealing with medical issues, katrina issues and the emotional fallout from that and trying to not collapse from the stress of it all and i got used to having him there. and for a while things were okay. but then things fell apart because he wasn’t holding up his end of things in the home or the relationship. in the end, i think he’s not a bad person, he just wasn’t ready, which is why i wanted him to do/experience things a bit more on his own in the first place.
all that to say, it’s not my cup of tea and the next man i live with will be the one i am planning to marry, but i think it all depends on what you and your SO are looking for. and i think a lot of people hop into living together without stopping to discuss what it means or what the other’s expectations are. for us, we started the convo (of how it was temp) but it fell by the wayside because of everything that was going on. when the train started going off the track, the convo reignited because i truly felt we had to get out of our comfort zone after dealing with this crisis and get back to the plan.
one of my friends is resisting her SO’s talk of moving in together because to her it will mean they would be leaning toward marriage and she doesn’t think that’s how he sees it. it is not a way to push a man to marry you if that’s not even on his radar. but if y’all are both of the mindset that this is just for saving money or let’s test it out and see if we can stand each others lifespace or maybe y’all wanna do a kurt and goldie. i dont’ think it matters as long as you are both on the same page. at least be in the same d@mn book.
sorry that was long.
@SouthernGirl,
how are things for you now? (regarding the medical issues and the katrina effect?)
@The Champ,
things are going okay. medically, things are finally on a better track. as for post-katrina, most of my family is settled now, or as settled as they can be. some things are still unanswered as my family is from the 9th ward so we still don’t know what’s going on with some property down there but most have settled in houston and everytime i go home it breaks my heart a little because things will never be the same. but the good news is we didn’t lose anyone and we’re all just trying to move forward.
thanks for asking. you must have had really good toast this morning.
@SouthernGirl,
no problem. and no, i didnt have toast, but i did eat maybe 10 mini-donuts.
As you will see, I was keenly interested in your post, as I have just released the first serious and non-judgmental book to help cohabiting couples. “Happily Un-Married: Living Together & Loving It” and you can learn more at http://www.wecohabitate.com.
I would like to offer the following as one way to show the many facets of this new American institution.
Cohabiting: (4) Perspectives?
Years of condemnation appear to be backfiring as many cohabitating couples reject the guilt-laden attempts to discourage their living arrangement. Instead, most cohabiters fear a failed marriage even more than the criticism, so opt to live together despite the odds.
Now the average age of a cohabiter has risen to 35. Over 60% of all couples who marry will cohabite first and rates of cohabitation will skyrocket since 75% of high school students believe living together is worthwhile and harmless. Cohabitation is much more diverse than once imagined and the following perspectives provide a small sampling of the many facets of living together outside of marriage.
1) Happily Un-Married: Living Together & Loving It!
Much like in Western Europe, many contemporary couples report high levels of satisfaction with their cohabitation arrangements. They’re buying homes together, sharing investments, raising children from previous relationships and, purposely, having more children together. They believe in long-term, monogamous and committed relationships but do not feel that marriage is necessary or even desired.
2) From Rebellion to Fear: Why Cohabitation Isn’t What It Use to Be!
Our motives for cohabitation have been transformed. Baby boomers, who are now quick to condemn cohabitation, started shacking up to rebel against marriage and as part of the sexual revolution. Now, due to all the Boomers who shacked up in the 60s, got married in the 70s, divorced in the 80s, and who raised the first full generation of children from broken homes, cohabitation is occurring out of fear of failure and not as an act of rebellion.
3) Cohabitation: Here Today & Gone Tomorrow?
The “jury is still out” on the future of cohabitation. It could be a long-term trend or a short-lived cycle that ends in failure. One could assume that with the growth of cohabitation, marriage is an endangered institution. However, it’s too early to say this move away from legally binding relationships is ongoing or that we’re merely seeing the bottom of a cycle and that marriage is on the upswing. Today’s youth are experimenting with new forms of commitment and relationships, just like their Baby Boomer parents.
4) Stealth Cohabitation: Shacking Up While Moving Up the Corporate Ladder!
There’s still a “don’t ask, don’t tell” mentality but it’s not in the military – it’s in corporate America. It’s not about sexual orientation – its about live-in relationships. It’s true that the social stigma of cohabitation has been transformed from a time when it was shameful, to a time when Brad and Angelina have become the new American family role model. But the stigma in business is still strong, especially for women, and the bottom line is shacking up may hurt your chances of moving up.
Thanks for your insight and perspective.
Best,
John Curtis
@John Curtis,
welcome and sh*t, and thanks for the link
@John Curtis,
“4) Stealth Cohabitation: Shacking Up While Moving Up the Corporate Ladder!
There’s still a “don’t ask, don’t tell” mentality but it’s not in the military –
”
I totally agree with this…with the whole race thing aside..with associated stigma and shame within the Black Community..comes a lot of people doing it/and have done it, but ain’t really saying much about it.
The only problem with stigma and shame (of which i am a huge proponent) comes people not really having honest discussions about it.
I find it curious that I have 2 friends who are currently co-habitating. Im not saying my circle represents anything scientific..but the numbers aint really working out on here..where everybody is disagreeing with the co-shackage.
A whole lot of somebody(s) are/is shackin and aint tellin right on here. right NOW.
come out wherever you are…
@John Curtis,
very interesting.
welcome!!!
*shooting gold stars*
and
*Diva Dust v.2.0 ™ *
@John Curtis,
I personally think that being happy is far more important than a ring, and a ceremony. I think that marriage as a concept is beautiful… but the application of that concept is where we all fall short. Things change. People change. I don’t think that marriage is the ultimate in life. And I don’t think as a woman that my ultimate validation is to be a wife… so. I think that cohabitating is fine until people are ready, really ready cuz some of us will never be ready, to make that step.
I definitely condone the idea of shacking up before getting married. I mean that is the main difference between simply being boo-ed up and being ring-ed up. It’s a trial basis type deal. Shack up with the boo for 30 days and if you don’t like it, you can send them back and you don’t have to pay shipping and handling on your heart. THEE best way to truly know someone is to live with them. No frontin’ goin’ on…you get to see the real them.
Now, I do wonder though, how the moms would handle it when I propose this idea to her. I’d like to think of her as liberal and open-minded (read: fast), but maybe her conservativeness will come out when she realizes some dude will be all up in her daughter’s house…in more ways than one.
@Cheekie,
I mean that is the main difference between simply being boo-ed up and being ring-ed up.
please expound. i’m not clear on what you’re trying to say
@The Champ,
Oh, my bad. I was saying, in general, the main different between just having a boyfriend and being married is actually living together. Yeah, there are exceptions, but as far as marriage goes, the living together goes without saying…hopefully.
Anyhow, I said that because that’s the major change you go through when you get married: living together. (assuming you weren’t before).
@Cheekie,
thanks. now that i understand what you’re trying to convey, i can express my complete disagreement.
@The Champ
LMAO
@The Champ, haha
@The Champ,
LOL.
What is the main difference, then?
@The Champ,
Yeah, why do you disagree?
If there’s that much difference between a boyfriend and a husband, he may have been a schitty boyfriend.
My stepsis lives with her boyfriend and it isn’t frowned upon. As a matter of fact, it’s cool because they split rent and they are good friends, so it works. My folks, before getting married, bought a house together and it was about 5 years before they actually married. I’m a stingy bastard and therefore want my own space. Other dudes might not admit it, but I don’t want my very manly and raw bachelor pad to suddenly become garnished with floral prints, Ralph Lauren red paint (WTF do all the chicks I meet paint their walls red?) and African masks purchased from Eastern Market.
I agree with knowing a person and living together before marriage, however I’d have to have a stringent screening process that allows me to see her financial management, housekeeping habits and annoyability factor. In jest I’ve had one person say she wanted to move in. I said “hell naw.” Never heard that conversation again.
@CPT Callamity,
lol at the thought of the chick asking that question, cpt saying “hell naw” and the chick saying “ok” and continuing with the dishes
@The Champ,
You laugh, but that scenario proly happens all the time. Women just settlin and sh*t. Waitin for their dudes to be “ready”. What in the heezy? I just don’t get it.
@The Champ,
She said it in jest but I had that feeling, like when you look over the side of a tall building…*shivers*
I like my own space too much right now. I wish someone would come over and do the dishes though.
@CPT Callamity,
I doubt she meant it “in jest”. She was tryin to see what your reaction was gon be. And when she saw you wasn’t wit it, she played the “i was just playin!” role. I promise you, if you hadda been like…”You know, I’ve been thinkin about that for a long time. Let’s do it!” She’d have a moving van backin up to yo crib the next day.
@nia,
I was LMAO’ing @ the “in jest” part too. Much as women tend to overthink, you think she was just amkin funnies? lol.
I’m completely up in the air on this one… I agree with the wisdom of old folks a lot… and I also think it’s wise to live with someone before you become permanently attached, by law and before god… even though if your signing contracts together and what not, ur getting there. So Idk…
I think shacking is looked down upon in some Black families because it makes it obvious you’re having sex before marriage, which is as looked at as immoral. I believe a lot of Black families still try to appear like they abide by biblical laws. Even though most couples haves sex before they’re married parent’s don’t ever really KNOW… I mean, unless a kid comes out it. I hope that make sense.
@browngirlsrus.,
lol@”Black families still try to appear like they abide by biblical laws.”
there’s a difference for the ‘rents/family between knowing and KNOWING i think when it comes to their children doing the do.
welcome!!!
*shooting gold stars*
and
*Diva Dust v.2.0 ™ *
where does 2520 come from btw…?
@browngirlsrus.,
25th letter of alphabet: Y
20th letter of alphabet: T
Put ‘em together.
The reason people are against shacking up is s3x. Pure and simple. You parents want to continue pretending you’re a 27yo virgin. You want your grandma to keep sending you that $100 check every birthday for being a “virtuous woman”. You goto church and don’t want Sis. Graham who is the head of the usher board to know that you even know what s3x is.
Essentially, you have people in your life that you have a vested interest in keeping unaware that you’re getting broken off on the regular.
All other reasons are secondary and minor. When you live with someone, whether they be male or female, sharing your bed or not, you will learn a lot more about them and their habits. You both save money, and if one of you is female, you almost invariably have arguments and will at some point goto bed mad. Heck, even children run away from home sometimes. No relationship is 100% safe from shacking up.
@kamakula,
The reason people are against shacking up is s3x.
you could also argue that the main selling point for shacking up is sex. there arent too many arguments you can’t make for sex.
btw, this…
“there arent too many arguments you can’t make for sex.”
…was probably the most awkwardly worded sentence i ever typed. i think i even use a triple negative
I don’t know. The running theme from the ladies that are opposed to “shacking up” is the notion that you’re giving away the cow and the milk and thus leave a man no reason to marry you. I don’t know how I feel about that. But then again, in truth, i don’t know how I feel about marriage … but that’s another conversation. How do you know, really KNOW if you want to marry him if you’ve never lived with him?
@pgh muse,
Well, ppl knew they knew they wanted to marry someone without shacking up with them decades ago.
We’re just less conservative nowadays, and don’t always feel the need to follow the old rules. I don’t think shacking up is required to determine whether your love is deep enough and you are compatible enough for marriage.
@Lili,
I don’t know about that Lili. It seems to me that people made do with their situations decades ago. A lot of women stayed married and suffered through horrible situations due to stigmas, and doctrines. They stayed married because there was so much shame not too, not because they were so in love. My grandma and a lot of aunt’s included made the ultimate sacrifice for their husbands – they sacrificed themselves. I’m not willing to do that, flat out. So this is why I say how do you really know you want to marry someone you’ve never lived with.
@pgh muse, remember a lot of men had to marry those women..her pops-fact all the men folk in the fam were put on high alert to remind that “fool” that the women in “their family” are to be respected so that man had to marry that women-esp if she was pregnant-thus forcing him to take “any job”. It wasnt just women that got railroaded by those old doctrines. Know that.
@pgh muse,
i haven’t really heard a good argument as WHY to “shack up” before marriage. so, you and your boo are in love and want to take your relationship to the next level by moving in. now, you know how many times he sh*ts in a given day, whether he squeezes the toothpaste from the middle or the end (assuming he even uses toothpaste), and whether or not he’s prone to leave dirty dishes or clothes around willy nilly. how do these things really change how you feel about him?? if your man is a slob, but you love him and he makes you feel like the most important person in the world (next to his mama and granny), does that mean he’s not worth marrying?? so the real question becomes “are living habits deal breakers”?? and judging from all the many deal breakers we’ve talked about on VSB in the past, living habits weren’t on anyone’s list.
as i see it, you can get to REALLY know somebody without actually living with them and splitting bills. becuz all you’re really learning while shacking up is how some one “lives”, and their habits don’t necessarily translate to other areas of life or their personality traits. habits can be broken and reformed, especially when having to adapt to a new environment (i.e. living with another person). a person’s aura, persona, values and attitudes towards life, on the other hand, are more rigid and less subject to change, regardless of the living situation. so you won’t learn those things simply by living with some one.
in general, i think you can learn all you NEED to know about somebody in the time you spend together and the time you spend apart. and for me, a pre-marital living situation is likely not going to make or break my desire to merge my life with some one else in holy matrimony.
@Gem-nastics, Hey Gemmie. Ummmm, I don’t disagree. As long as you date for a long time, and spend A LOT of time with them … so that all that person’s personalities surface.
@Gem-nastics, in general, i think you can learn all you NEED to know about somebody in the time you spend together and the time you spend apart. and for me, a pre-marital living situation is likely not going to make or break my desire to merge my life with some one else in holy matrimony.
I agree 1881% lol!!
@pgh muse,
The running theme from the ladies that are opposed to “shacking up” is the notion that you’re giving away the cow and the milk
My personal reasons are not really along those lines. I just don’t understand what the rush is. If we get married (eventually), we’ll be living together for the rest of our lives (eventually) anyways. So why rush the process? I think it’s N.I.A that said it best, I value my alone time too much and I’m only willing to sacrifice it for a person who has the same level of commitment as me.
I am not against shacking up, I don’t think it’s the best solution for me. My younger sister lives with her boyfriend (although my father, bless his heart, doesn’t know that). I told her my opinion but she’s a cost-efficient person and it just made sense for them.
And besides, I don’t believe this whole “you only truly know somebody by living with them” bit. I mean, is it that people are really not perceptive or what? I don’t know what life altering things (that will cause you to reconsider a committment) you’ll discover by shacking up.
Like Gem asked a bit up, are different domestic styles a deal breaker now? No, let me tell you what is a deal breaker, two people not willing to make concessions… And you don’t have to shack up to know you’re dealing with a selfish person, IMHO.
@Sula for the kids…, “And you don’t have to shack up to know you’re dealing with a selfish person, IMHO” I agree and heres why
I just stop dating a woman that at 18 interned for Essence-traveled the world, made good money sans degree. A true diva; looked good-great personality, knew the ppl to see and the places to be, and the drinks come free! But then she got convenient. 30+ with no liscense I realized she moved to the pad she’s at now cuz her Ex had a whip. Claiming “to never get pregnant to at least an engagemtn ring is on” she gave up her fab life to have his baby in a 4 story walk up.
He proceeded to cheat on her while pregnant.
She has called him a bitch and said she now sees his “confidence was just selfishness”. I say her “confidence” boderline cockiness (this is my boo and I am moving in with him no matter how “off” it appears) was really seflishness. I am a native NY’er but even I have a license-she just assumed her man (and all the men she was dating) would love driving her all over NYC(-she doesnt like to ride the subway late).
In our two months w/each other she always made a point about what the neigborhood lacks. So again why’d she move from a much trendier locale?
Upon the break up he stored all of her mags -she cant get them, he doesnt pay child support-and now lives in Texas. Shes stuck with no degree-no savings-35+ with a PT gig. All cuz she couldnt admit all she really wanted was 24/hr dick with the OPTION to marry. And I guess she thought having the baby would mean something too. In the end of the shacking situations I know of mostly all of then have ended like this, in this case this chick was the worst I ever seen at being prepared for the downfall.
@pgh muse,
Actually I hear that it’s hard to really know someone. I have heard people who have been married for decades state that they are still learning their S.O.
This is a great topic! I did a paper on the same subject my senior year of college, and I cited a ton of studies and womens mag articles. Most of the stats say that most people who live together dont wind up married. Actually, many of them end up breaking up and, depending on how ugly things got, hating each other. I wish I still had that paper.
Anyway, my mom is all for the idea, citing the same reasons you posted. I guess Im old school, I’d rather wait until Im married or at LEAST have a ring on my finger before I moved in with the bf. I just need to know we’re working towards a larger future together. If you can combine finances/lifestyles/and be swapping fluids on a reg, why not just add a marriage certificate? Doesnt make sense to me.
@Dom,
“Anyway, my mom is all for the idea.”
i guess she figures that it would keep you away from f*cking all the crackheads.
@The Champ
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Sorry Dom, but that sh*t was funny!
@V Renee,
: ) Yall two can kiss my grits! I done said he wasnt a crackhead when I was with him. He started dabbling in that sh!t when we broke up!
This is why I dont share nothing with yall! Supposed to be family and ish and this how yall do me?
@Dom,
Speaking of not knowing someone. How in the hell did his mama mistake his future crack-smoking self for a potential pastor??? I mean my mama dont know everything about me but I dont think she’d ever make that gross of a miscalculation
@Me fail english?,
I think she was in denial. Or probably just tryna be funny and salt me since she had just seen all my goodies. Who knows? Im just glad I got the hell away from him AND his Mamma.
@Dom,
i wish you still had the paper too!! i wanna read it lol
thanks!
this post it really on point.
i would like to thank you for the enlightenment, because i didn’t realize this was a universal issue across black culture… i thought it was just my parents.
i am dealing with this right now; my boyfriend and i have been together for quite some time (off and on for seven years.. we have been on for a while) and we want to live together. he has a fly apartment in the village and it would be super convenient for me! in the summer time, i can walk to and from work, and when if i opt to take the train, it is only 3 stops! my morning commute from my parents house right now takes me an hour.
my problem is, i love my parents. (i know, such a good kid) my other friends have just told me “who cares? move out”… but now that i look at it, that has come from my latino and white friends…
hrmmm…
i am the youngest of 3 girls and i have witnessed both of my older sisters move out with their boyfriends (only to move back home later on) and the whole time they were out, my dad didn’t talk to them! (it’s that serious people, my oldest sister didn’t talk to my dad for six months…) so, it is pretty easy to understand why i would like to avoid that. my parents are cool people, and i would like to have them be an active part of my life.
i don’t know what to do.
@laylah,
I think that if you’re still living with mom and dad that you should listen to them (and this is coming from the “bad” kid). If and when you move out make it your own space, you’ll need it. But while you live with your folks they can’t ever see you as a fully actualized adult and will second guess your every decision, especially if it goes against already established rules. The only way to show them that you’re really “all grown up” is to SHOW them, by creating your own space and caring for it.
Than you can sneak that boy in like everyone else on this blog, lol!
@Lil’T,
so, you are you saying get my own place? girl, i can’t afford that! i am 23, living in nyc, paying back loans from my disgustingly expensive college education!
(ok, im done complaining. i just had to vent… i just finished paying $500 to acs…)
@laylah, i agree with T..STAY HOME..again if staying over his house on thurs or fri is an option and still makes you feel good about things, why not that.
Aside from that..work on building a life FOR YOU. I stayed at home until I was 25. Good stuff. True dat I still couldn’t do exactly what i wanted to do. But when I moved out I was ready and it wasnt with a dude.
@laylah,
Awww, poor baby! Wait, if I think long enough I get a vague recollection of what it was like to be 23 and fresh outta school….
Girl, get a deferment if you can. If not a deferment a forebearance. No need to break yourself paying back student loans just yet – they know you’re still broke. The cost of supporting yourself has got to be the biggest case of sticker shock ever – stay home as long as you can!
At 23, if I had the opportunity (if I was living in the same city as my folks) I would have stayed home. Yes, it’s annoying having to deal with their rules and what not, but at that age I would rather accomodate the parental unit than a boyfriend. This is the time you are supposed to be discovering yourself, use it to build your own nest egg(i.e financials), have loads of fun with your girlfriends, travel, discover and enjoy life without being too burdened by responsibilities. And a cohabitating relationship is a responsibility.
I’ll do like Princess Duvet advised, stay at home and stay some days at the bf’s place. If you could afford to live alone and really wanted to shack up, I would have said to try it out, but if you have to go back to your parents’ house in case it didn’t work (knock on wood), it’s just not worth it.
@laylah,
“he has a fly apartment in the village and it would be super convenient for me! in the summer time, i can walk to and from work, and when if i opt to take the train, it is only 3 stops! my morning commute from my parents house right now takes me an hour.
”
what if his apt sucked..and it was an hour and 12 stops away? The summer is pretty far off..but what if you stayed there on thurs and fris? and you maintained your own seperate residences. That way he’s still not getting the whole cow, and he still has some milk for the very expensive lattes, which isn’t free. btw.
@Princess Duvet aka “The Princess Has Spoken”,
wait i re-read you still live at home? Is starting off with your own place first an option? how old are you?
@Princess Duvet aka “The Princess Has Spoken”,
23…
i would like to live by myself, but there is no way i can afford nyc rent by myself (at least for a place in a decent neighborhood)
my girlfriends that do live in the city either already have roommates or live with their parents also (the affordable housing market here is ridiculous)
@laylah,
“i would like to live by myself, but there is no way i can afford nyc rent by myself (at least for a place in a decent neighborhood)”
You have options. Why does it have to be NYC tho, what about a nice boro? what about a nice NJ metro area? what about finding other roomates (who currently live at home too-whereby you experience independence with people in similiar situations.)
if boyfriend really cares about you, he’s going to want you to do what’s right given your circumstances (that is the ultimate “is he worthy test”). hopefully he’s not pressuring you either way.
@laylah, my reply to you went to mod!!
@Princess Duvet aka “The Princess Has Spoken”,
“what if his apt sucked..and it was an hour and 12 stops away?”
i am thinking. very good point.
@laylah,
please think. it sounds as if you would be doing it only for the convenience it would offer and not because you really want to. also, i think everyone needs to experience living on their own before they take to living with someone else.
also, it worries me a little bit that ya’ll have been off and on so frequently. how long has this latest ‘on’ sitch been? what if ya’ll are ‘off’ next month? if an established plan of togetherness and committment to really making things work has not been established or ya’ll haven’t worked on and overcome the issues that have made ya’ll be ‘off’ in the past i would say definitely not.
just my thoughts.
@SouthernGirl,
we have been on for about 2 years. but you all made very good points.
i think it would be a better idea for me to live on my own for a while before settling in with him.
what really made me think differently was being asked if i would still want to live with him right now if his lving situation wasn’t as attractive as it is. and the answer is no. i’d rather live at home for the time being.
thank you ladies
@laylah,
Singing my life with your words. I live in the ‘burbs of NYC, I’m 24 and plain dont wanna live with my girlfriends. I had a boyfriend that lived right on the Lex Ave. lines and I work on the eastside (sweet commute!). What I lost in the commute, I more than made up for in being annoyed with his no dishwashing ass. I mean I knew he could be annoying but there’s nothing like being the first person he sees after a hard day’s work. Let’s just say I was thankful I had a no fuss exit strategy
Also, you may be interested to know that “in these tough economic times” (the requisite overused phrase du jour) landlords in NYC are giving 1-3 months free, no fee deals, etc.
You may wanna wait it out til our economy hits bottom then get your own ish for cheap.
@laylah, read what I wrote up thread…the train stops being three blocks away well is that really a reason to move in? And even yall do at some point yall will move so you cant move in on that reason-if you were looking for you own pad sure. But as I said up thread, most of all the shacking situations I know of, ALL of the women have kids, babby father long gone and marriage was a word in the dictionay after maybe and might. Take a sheet of paper put the yr 2013 on it and project where you will be, have ur BF do likewise-alone. Then talk on how yall will acheive these goals and dont get ALL pc with it keep it ruff, rugged and raw. That should give perspective.
There are 2 things that I will not do – Shack up or be a baby mama.
That is all.
@V Renee
**thinking to myself “Please don’t let this come back to bite me in the azz and I do either of the above”
**Myself replying to myself – “Don’t worry it won’t”
@V Renee,
*sings Baby Mama Dramaaaaaaaa, enough to make ya wanna scream and Holla aaaaaah”
@V Renee,
There are 2 things that I will not do
….thats not what i heard
I think the flaw in everything I’m reading is that everyone views marriage as the “end goal”. And I mean marriage in the religious sense. Because I’m not really a religious person I think I view it a little differently.
If I was ever to shack up it would purely be as a logical next step in the relationship for financial reasons. If me and shorty were spending a combined 4 or 5 nights at each other’s crib and each paying two seperate rents won’t it make sense to just pay one rent and live in the same crib?
@Dorian G.,
even if you ain’t ready to get married….
don’t do it for the money…..cause you *will* be broke
if marriage isn’t YOUR end goal or HER end goal, than moving in together makes sense.
@Gem-nastics,
Most definitely. If y’all are both on the same page as far as that, then by all means shack up.
@Dorian G.,
“If me and shorty were spending a combined 4 or 5 nights at each other’s crib and each paying two seperate rents won’t it make sense to just pay one rent and live in the same crib?”
Aww, bless your heart sweetie. If only it were that simple…
@nia,
I don’t know I think people make it more difficult than it really is. Like the girl laylah above I mean I guess she has parental issues, but seriously thats the beauty of 2009 is that the worst that happens is a bad story and a life lesson. The best that happens is pure bliss, convenience and overall joy.
Seems like a decent gamble to me.
@nia,
“Aww, bless your heart sweetie. If only it were that simple…”
I was gonna say the same thing..
@ DG
I dont think “combining” lives outside of matrimony aside from my yogurt in HIS refridgerater is a “gamble” im willing to take.
In regards to Laylah above she doesn’t JUST have parental issues..she also has a situation whereby i posed a longer commute in shabby diggs and she’s gotta ponder. If she was totally convinced would it even matter? Besides Southern Girl also posed something just as interesting about them being on and off…you don’t go into co-habitation on a gamble.
sometimes there’s a higher emotional and financial cost if things DONT work out. And judging from the people on this board who have been there done that (for convenience)..the odds aren’t really in your favor.
well P-Mc-Tangle-Jig/Daddyasaurous
I understand the quams w/ the cohabitation. The people who don’t dig it are on a tip like this; 1. Marriage is for whole people. People who got they own *singing Momma may have and Poppa may have but Goooooooood bless the child that’s got his own.* 2. You got to show that you can be that ‘whole’ person. Responsible and able to stand on your own 2 feet. Take it for what it is or what you want it to be. After all these are the people on the outside looking in. Time for some music. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBPGm4Fbo0Q
oh and some sagetesticle advice from old school. Don’tchu EVUH EVER EVER EVER EVER move into her spot. She can kick you out, call the cops on you got yo shyt right there to Jasmine Sullivan it. Unh unh reconcider read some litterature(mostly law books) on the subject.
Oh yeah The Bible didn’t say nothing about polygamy either @ least I don’t think so. So from what I hear I got to make the first one count.
@WuDaMan, Marriage is for whole people.
This is the gospel truth.
@pgh muse,
I think we need that on a shirt.
@miss t-lee, lol! Agreed!
@pgh muse,
How about ‘if you start out right you’ll end up right’
@WuDaMan, To that I will say Hopefully, prayerfully and very faithfully. But yeah. That can go on a tshirt too.
Interesting topic.
I personally don’t dig it. If our end goal is to be married and stay together forever bla bla bla, then let’s do that. Maybe I like to think I’m very perceptive, but I wonder what mind-b;lowing, life-alternating, deep-dark secret I will discover by living fulltime with an SO that I can’t figure out while we are in a long-term committed relationship.
If someone wants to withhold information from you, what makes you think that paying one rent instead of two will make them say it? I don’t know, the (main)argument for shacking up seems to be a bit fragile in my opinion.
I do understand the financial reasons… However, I do value my financial sanity and freedom. There are other ways for us to “save money”. I don’t know that argument is not compelling enough to lure me in. I mean is a relationship now the equivalent of a Roth IRA (pre-recession)?
Personally I would rather get a roommate than have my SO move over… It all goes back to me only willing to compromise for a person who is as dedicated to compromising as I am i.e a husband.
Plus, my father will probably have a heart attack…. well, actually maybe not now. But back then,most certainly.
I don’t know… My lifespace is important to me and I believe I can know all that I need to know about a guy by actually being in a relationship with him.
So no shacking up for me…. although I can see how it can work for other folks.
@Sula for the kids…
well, that says it all.
@SauleWright,
sure does..
Sula, well said.
@Sula for the kids…, I don’ t disagree with anything you said here, e-twin. I’m not making an argument for or against shacking up. Differenet circumstances throughout the course of life bring out different behaviors and tendencies. We are all selfish in ways, some with time… some with money… what have you. Nobody is perfect. Meeting that person that is perfect for you is someting different, and maintaining those feelings forever takes a lot of work.
as i’ve read the majority of the comments, i’ve come the conclusion that a large part of why folks don’t agree with the idea of shacking up is all image and perception. which is a big issue in the Black community (Image Awards, anyone?).
we don’t like things to LOOK bad. nobody cares what you’re doing as long as it doesnt make you look bad. hell, half of the folks that don’t want to shack up do want to be having monkeysechs in the middle of a tornado after the hurricane with only some chaps and pack of lifesavers. yet shacking up is taboo. even if you essentially live with your S.O. 7 days a week and have drawers and drawz at his or her spot, as long as you have your own place to pay rent it’s okay. i find that very interesting…
as far as sampling the “milk” and all that jazz…just b/c you aren’t shacking up doesn’t mean you aren’t doing all the same sh*t anyway. you just dont share an address. and that’s just so it doesn’t LOOK like impropriety.
i’d say that 99 percent of the people on this blog probably had premarital sechs. which is “wrong”. but as long as folks can pretend that you aren’t doing that then there’s no real worries. shacking up just lends validation to your fears of what your kids are doing or what anybody’s doing and we don’t want that image.
maybe that’s why white folks don’t care, image to them isn’t as important.
and i also think that the image we’re trying to uphold is to other black folks that we either 1) were raised right; or 2) that as parents, we raised our kids right.
in conclusion: hello.
@Panama Jackson,
this whole response feels “hot” to me…why you mad son?
@Princess Duvet aka “The Princess Has Spoken”, i was afraid it was gonna come off that way. i’m not actually hot about this topic.
i do get bothered by our (and by our, I mean Black folks) constant pandering to image over anything else, but that’s a whole different talk show.
truthfully, though i wrote the post from a certain perspective, i actually don’t have a real opinion on shacking up myself. if it suits you, then great, if not, then don’t.
everything always looks pionted when you use the pronoun “you” in a forum where there’s a lot of direct discussion.
hopefully nobody takes it personal or anything. like i said, no heat from this end.
just sexxiness.
@Panama Jackson,
“i do get bothered by our (and by our, I mean Black folks) constant pandering to image over anything else, but that’s a whole different talk show.”
its ok..as you have noticed here as well, i have my hot buttons too.
as for the “image” thing..i think society as a whole “likes to keep up appearances”. Conforming to a certain degree does est. some sort of order. Whats more telling is that some of us are “more uptight” than our parents were at our age and younger (if you’ve overheard the stories) again who came of age when there was a little “free love” and less disease. Some of this has to do with generational shifts as well.
@Panama Jackson,
Can someone T-shirt this up for P-Mo-Nimblie
‘just sexxiness’
LMAO
but on a real note premarital cohabitators have a higher stats of divorce. But stats say a lot of us should be dead by 25 so what’s that got to do w/ the price of rubber duckies in Mosambique.
@Princess Duvet aka “The Princess Has Spoken”,
“this whole response feels “hot” to me…why you mad son?”
Me 2. But that’s okay.
You still my dawg.
@Panama Jackson,
I don’t think Panny J sounds “hot”. I think he sounds realistic. Unless this is a blog full v-card holders (yeah, right), most of us don’t want to move in because of what someone else may think (no shame on the family, no shame!). To be fair, some of us don’t want to shack up because we don’t want to share – totally reasonable. But if you’re engaged with 2 kids and STILL gotta act like you’re not living with your SO there is something….well…..immature about it to me. Or maybe delusional.
I just think that if you and the SO are handling business and paying your bills, why seek the approval of the folks to the point you begin lying, then gotta lie 1000 more times to cover up for the first lie? Just be honest, if they get mad they’ll get over it. Especially if you don’t “need” them for financial support.
Bottom line: no matter how old you are, your parents won’t see you as an adult until you act like one. That includes making grown decisions (even if they don’t agree) and owning up to them, not hiding.
P.S. – if you do all this under the guise of “feelin’ grown” and end up needing them more than ever, be prepared to plummet about 10 years in your parents estimation. Now you just a big mouth kid, lol!
@Lil’T, This is a great answer.
@Panama Jackson,
it’s not the white folks don’t care….they can fvck up and catch a break….restorative justice as an example
us darker folks ain’t so lucky….
@KingPine,
Ain’t that the truth!
“what’s the big deal about shacking up? Is it okay or should everybody have a place of their own no matter how much time you may spend together? If so, why?”
for me, shacking up with a SO = a heavy emotional investment that i’m not willing to take…at least, that’s my opinion at the moment
if the relationship ends (edit: and we’re living together), i feel there would be too many pieces we’d be left trying to put back together (emotional, financial, etc.)… i know that the same could be said for marriage, but at least (in that case) vows were taken to stick things through ’til the end. if i wanted someone to share my monthly expenses with, i’d look for a roommate. i just know that my heart would get too tied up in the situation, so i’d rather wait for the vows
Unless y’all shacking up and not sexing, then the Bible pretty much says shacking up ain’t cool. It’s under the fornication rule.
But, I think black women who hate shacking figure that if you let a man get ALL the milk for free, he will never buy the cow. And if you let him see where the milk comes from everyday, well things are even worse.
And………I’m back! But lets focus on the issue at hand……..
I am currently shacking and I believe it is the right thing to do before possibly jumping the broom. I know the religious part of it all but the way I see it we would be sex’n anyway so what difference does the address make to God?
Now in my situation, shackin has allowed me to see the woman I once was in love with for the horrible bi#$h that she truly is. (<—bitterness! LOL!) I am glad of that because now that I know the deal I can move on and I don’t even need a lawyer.
So it works either way. Either you discover that you really have found the “one”, or you discover that you need not waste anymore time with that person.
I mean dang! The witch hates my dog! What kind of ish is that?<—more bitterness! LOL!
@BigBuck,
So you didn’t realize she was a “witch” before you moved in together? I find that a little hard to believe. If she had serious character flaws you probably picked up on them before you shacked up…Maybe you ignored the signs, but they had to be there.
@Lili,
“If she had serious character flaws you probably picked up on them before you shacked up…Maybe you ignored the signs, but they had to be there.”
Maybe… but trust that you cannot ignore things when they’re in your face (and your space) everyday all day
@DeviantGirl, I agree as I said about the chick I dated-dick-and a car on call is why she gave up her fab-single (member ladies she interened for Essence in NYC at 1 friggin 8-during the Biggie Pac era). She is stuck with the baby even runnin to the corner store is a task-who is watchin the baby? Her BD was a fool she just chose to ignore it cuz she was getting what she wanted. Good D and a bf with a fly whip.Point blakn perioid. She said how her fam-his fam and all changed after the baby-lemme say this about pregnant women the only ones who change are the pregnanat women. She eevn admitted he was a “player” back in the day so she knew full well. She knew what she was getting into full well just mad she and bitter she got burnt.
@temps, Ok……I’ma read that again and see if it gets clearer.
@temps,
hm why buy the pig when you can get the sausage for free. That should be more women’s motto??
Maybe aqualung has a point. (An overstated point, maybe?)
It’s one thing to shack up.
It’s quite another thing to include a minor child in such an unstable, experimental, transitory household.
But aqualung may just have some grudge against P.
I don’t know. ~shrug~
@buh_buh_hotep,
well said.
@aqualung, grow up. and kill yourself.
@aqualung, Really man? You bringing the mans seed into this? Did Panama get you pregnant and leave you at the altar or something? I’m going to have to agree with Liz and say kill yourself.
@aqualung,
Damn, I wasn’t gonna reply to this cuz it seemed all types of extra, but do you have some sort of personal beef with this man?
Anyhow, I think your theory is part of the reason why divorce rates are so high and also part of the reason the women’s movement was fought.
The reason for having babies (prophylactic failure) and the reason for marriage (love and commitment) are two different things. Marrying a woman that you love but aren’t sure you’re ready to commit to sounds like a recipe for disaster. And then you’d probably fault him for divorcing the mother if it turns out, (surprise!) they weren’t meant to be married.
My parents were married for years before I was conceived and that ring/license didn’t do me a bit more good than if they didn’t exist. On the other hand, having both my mama and daddy living in the same crib with me was very helpful.
If you pulled nothing else from all the comments it should be that marriage, cohabbing and other such arrangements deemed necessary by larger society are only what you make it. Stop imposing this one size fits all model on everybody when it clearly doesn’t work for everybody.
@Me fail english?, co-sign, amen, hare krishna.