panama and i are both aware that the url we chose, verysmartbrothas.com, is about as nuance-less as a typical tyler perry movie title. we chose it because we figured it would be easy to remember, and also because we’re, ummmm, two very smart-ass brothas. duh. thing is, despite the “brothas” part and the fact that the majority of our regulars are black, neither of us have written anything race-specific yet. sh*t, if you look at our entry topics, this site could have been created by worldlywittywhitemen.com and nothing would be any different.
this is not an accident. i don’t know about p, but for me personally, entries written from a “man who happens to be black” instead of from a “black man” allows for a bit more creative freedom and overall resonance. at the same time, i’m not so naive as to think that my experience as a black man hasn’t uniquely influenced my perception of everything i’ve seen and done, it’s just that i feel like i bring more to the proverbial table from the “man who happens to be black” angle
with that being said, i’m still not planning on writing any race-specific entries (ie “a smart brothas perspective on interracial dating“), plus, the people over at racialicious have probably covered it better than i would, but if i ever decided to put the “black mans hat” on and write a smart brothas perspective on interracial dating, i’d want to bring a couple new points to the table, points such as…
1. it seems as if black women occasionally forget one very important factor when thinking about black men: the fact that we’re, ummm, men, and, for the most part, we’re more loyal to the man part than to the black part.
***don’t believe me? okay, lets do a little exercise. imagine that there’s a gun to you head, and the only thing stopping the trigger from being pulled is a choice you’re told to make: you must either change your gender or your race. (ie, a black woman would have to choose between either becoming a white woman or a black man) without even reading the comments, i bet the majority of black women will keep their race, while most black men will choose to keep their gender. ***
this is paramount in the interracial dating discussion for one reason: men are generally less discerning when it comes to sexual partners than women are, and, since black men are men, physical attractiveness and availability typically trump racial loyalty. this is true for all men, regardless of race. i date black women exclusively because black women are the bangingest women and i’m surrounded by them, but not solely because of any perceived loyalty. sorry.
2. i’ve never bought the claim that white women are less sexually inhibited than other races of women (either i live in a vacuum, or the people who make these statements have just never met any of the women i’ve dated, lol). in my opinion, the basis of this myth all comes down to one factor: ubiquity. easily outnumbering every other demographic group in this country, caucasian women are literally everywhere. you can’t leave the house without tripping over a white woman. sh*t, i think theres one baking a cake in my kitchen right now, and this reality skewers sexual perception.
for instance, lets say theres 5000 incoming freshman at a university. of those 5000, roughly 22-2500 of them will typically be white women, as opposed to maybe 200 sistas. now, lets assume that roughly 10 percent of these incoming freshman women are super freak nasties, willing to do any and everything to any and everybody. this means that while maybe 20 to 25 of the sistas are freaking off every night, as many as 250 freshman white women are budding porn stars, a number which outnumbers the entire black female freshman population, a fact which can easily lead to all types of misconceptions. its not that all white woman are snizzles, its just that theres so many white women that the number of snizzles by themselves outnumbers pretty much everyone else
3. to all the sisters who are deeply ambivalent about stepping out and trying “something old”, its really not that serious. if you’re lucky you’ll be on earth for approximately 80 years, and I’d hate for you to spend a good portion of that time sacrificing your own happiness for some romanticized technicolor loyalty.
do. you.
and don’t worry, you can bring him to the vsb.com barbecue too. we’ll even make him a plate.
i could continue, but this “black man’s hat” is heavy as hell. no wonder i keep it in on the shelf.
—the champ
Related posts:
Tags: attraction, freak nasties, freshman, gender, interracial dating, race, snizzles, white women
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{ 46 comments… read them below or add one }
I love Black men.
I like your math analogy. I forgot to look at it form that perspective, and you just might be right.
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 9:24 am}
“I love Black men.”
we love you too
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As Is {June 24th, 2008 at 9:36 am}
“I love Black men.”
Indeed! There is something about those waves, that tight line-up, that beautiful, dark (or caramel-lol) skin under a new, white beater! Lawd!
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Teacia {June 24th, 2008 at 10:04 am}
Well!!(in my church voice)
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Vitamin Be {June 24th, 2008 at 12:40 pm}
Tabernacle!
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Luvvie {June 26th, 2008 at 1:48 pm}
You better PREACH!!
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I don’t think that white girls are freakier than us brown girls…they’re just more open with it. Take head for instance… a lot of people are under the impression that black women just started doing it. My 85 year old grandmother knocked that one out the park. “Sucking d*** ain’t nothing new, we just didn’t go telling everybody what went on in our bed.”
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don giovanni {June 24th, 2008 at 2:26 am}
while i agree with you on that, there are still some things that are more taboo in the black community than in the white community!! for instance, growing up in the midst of whites and blacks (straddled that fence with great care), i knew what the girls (black and white) were doing sexually and why they were doing it!! the white girls i knew had been told from an early age “don’t come home knocked up” so they did other things (oral, anal,etc.) in order to stay true to their upbringing and not disappoint their parents, where as we as blacks find it too taboo to discuss such things!! the black girls i knew had a problem with oral sex (i had a problem with anal sex), but had no problems with someone trying that all too perfect “pull-out” method when no condoms were available!! it seems no one knew about abstinence back then!! but it these things were nothing new, just no one ever talked about it!!
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Miss Patterson {June 24th, 2008 at 4:15 am}
you’re big on exclamation points, i forgot.
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Teacia {June 24th, 2008 at 10:10 am}
I guess my household and my friend’s would be the exception to the rule. We were virgins until well into our senior year and before I had sex I told my mother I was thinking about it and she quickly wisked me off to get on birth control.
She ALWAYS talked about sex(her nasty ass…lol), she was/is a devout Baptist and although sex was supposed to be an ambiguous topic, it was discussed with great detail in our house. Maybe that upbringing has something to do with me embracing and being SUPER comfortable with my inner/outer freak.
My friends shared the same values, we even had a club, “the V club” from the time we were in 8th grade until we all eventually gave in to peer pressure senior year.
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Monnie {June 24th, 2008 at 11:28 am}
“My 85 year old grandmother knocked that one out the park. “Sucking d*** ain’t nothing new, we just didn’t go telling everybody what went on in our bed.””
LOL!!
I have an Great Aunt (70) that refused to let this man at church kiss her on the cheek saying “ain’t no telling what he has been eating…” then proceeded to go off on a rather explicit tangent. Old people rock.
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Fly... {June 24th, 2008 at 12:01 pm}
“My 85 year old grandmother knocked that one out the park. “Sucking d*** ain’t nothing new, we just didn’t go telling everybody what went on in our bed.””
Tell your grandmother to hug herself. I have so much respect for a lady that knows how to be discreet. We need to go back to those days.
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 9:26 am}
“My 85 year old grandmother knocked that one out the park. “Sucking d*** ain’t nothing new, we just didn’t go telling everybody what went on in our bed.””
okay, ummm, when can we meet your granny?
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Vitamin Be {June 24th, 2008 at 4:49 pm}
I’m keeping my grandma far away from you, Champ.
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*tipping my “black man’s” hat to you*
First, your exercise, I believe, is very much on point. I’d much rather be a white man as oppose to a black woman. I’m going to ask people this question throughout the course of the day (minus the gun to the head part) and see if it rings true.
Secondly, I’ve never dated a white chick, but experience tells me that freaks definitely come in all shades and being less sexually inhibited is not just a “white thing”.
Thirdly,
“caucasian women are literally everywhere. you can’t leave the house without tripping over a white woman”
When reading this, I caught a visual that has me cracking the fuck up right now!!
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aja {June 24th, 2008 at 3:32 am}
“i date black women exclusively because, to me, black women are the bangingest women…”
*doin the cabbage patch @ that..lol*
I’ve dated men out of my race and ur right.. men are men. They all act basically the same except for some cultural differences. But there is something very unique about the Black man that women of any race cannot resist. (and i hope its not the wang stereotype because that aint always true… lol) You can be compatable with anyone reguardless of race. It’s a preference if you want to date within your race or not.
“Love is what u make it and with whom u make it with..it aint rocket science” … - that dood from Love Jones..
that is so true..
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 9:28 am}
“Secondly, I’ve never dated a white chick, but experience tells me that freaks definitely come in all shades and being less sexually inhibited is not just a “white thing”.”
**pews**
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Treezy F. Baby {June 24th, 2008 at 6:49 pm}
I personally would actually choose to be a white woman rather than a black man. I remember having this discussion with a friend once…I asked her if you had to be another race besides being black what would you choose? I don’t recall her response but I know mine quite well. While, I LOVE being black and I would if I had the choice choose to be born black all over again, even with all the bullsh*t it comes with. We are some friggin’ gorgeous, talented, strong, redemptive people! But if I was forced to be anything but black: Latino, Asian, or other various such nationalities, creeds, colors in this country? I’d be white anything…man or woman. I figure why CHOOSE to be dealt the raw end of the deal in life if you don’t have to. If I can’t be black f*ck it, let’s see what the other half lives like for real…although knowing my luck…I’d be that white person with two teeth, some overalls, named Bertha or Billy Joe living in a trailer park in Kentucky somewhere. Sigh.
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Wow. Very insightful. And I agree with you on all points. uh, oh….
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 12:07 pm}
“And I agree with you on all points. uh, oh….”
lol…this isn’t a good thing?
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I have an older cousin , that I grew up around who is currently dating a white woman. Hes a really cool guy, handsome, funny.He has many of the qualities black women go for he graduated college a few years back and he is doing pretty well. While I understand the figures that you(Champ) pointed out there are still at least 5 single black women in this city he could be dating. Having attended an HBCU, I cant say Im against interracial dating, but I prefer black on black dating.. When I asked him why he was dating her he said ” O, Im just havin fun” . So I guess the point I am making here is that black people especially the men dont date outside their race looking for serious relationships …They’re just “havin fun”…but Hey, what do i know ..
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Suga&Spice {June 24th, 2008 at 9:05 am}
Keep in mind that your cousin might have gotten accustomed to giving that canned ‘havin fun’ answer so he doesnt have to hear everyone’s opinion on his choices.
If I have to listen to one more person(male or female) attempt to talk me out of dating outside of my race, I might catch a charge! And since I have never been the type of chick who explains herself to folks, I have canned the response ‘Just trying it out, ya never know.’
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 9:29 am}
“While I understand the figures that you(Champ) pointed out there are still at least 5 single black women in this city he could be dating. ”
just five? thats it?
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kamakula {June 24th, 2008 at 9:45 am}
There are five black women he could be dating and 500 white ones. I’m not sure the black women win numbers wise.
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 11:29 am}
thats what your cousin told you to escape the wrath of khan. what he said to you he probably would have and could have said about any woman you had a question about. …and that’s just one black man’s opinion.
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JustasIam {June 24th, 2008 at 4:21 pm}
Being divorced myself, and back in the dating world Your doing good to find LOVE in the world no matter what color it comes from(heel its good to find like)!!!
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bella {October 2nd, 2008 at 2:15 pm}
no black men dont just date white woman for fun…
they just cant seem to leave us alone and want a good woman to come home to drama free..
this taboo subject can go on and on..nothing is ever going to change..people feel the way they feel because its their choice..we date interracially becasue it is our choice..let it go already..
there are may reasons why black woman think black men date white woman. and there are so many different reasons why white men think we like black men or that white men think black men date us to get ahead..not
people are going to think what they want..some are just not ready to handle the truth black woman and white men have so so many dam issues when it comes to nterracial dating..black woman think their men, lol, their men abandoned them, white men think we like balck man because of the size of their penis..lol.thats a joke..its a falisy no true at all;
why can it just be
i date interracially because i can..because i want to cause its my choice cause thats what i like
period
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As a female the choice for #1 I would have to say I would change my race before my gender. I just have this (idea) which could be skewed or totally wrong, that white women have it easier, and If I could be one I would do it like yesterday (for a week or something lol)
and about the whole interracial dating thing with black women, for me its not about just trying something *new* per say, I just don’t find an abundance of attractive white men around to be like oooooh yeaaaaa let me ride that horse!!! and secondly I haven’t heard to many black women say that white guy can put it DOWN!! if I could hear it or EXPERIENCE it myself hell I would be on the other side like yesterday!
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 9:32 am}
“if I could hear it or EXPERIENCE it myself hell I would be on the other side like yesterday!”
we’ll, you’d need to experience it in order for you to, ummmm, experience it.
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Mikki {June 24th, 2008 at 11:35 am}
Tell me where to sign up lol
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Suga&Spice {June 24th, 2008 at 9:58 am}
‘I haven’t heard to many black women say that white guy can put it DOWN!! if I could hear it or EXPERIENCE it myself hell I would be on the other side like yesterday!’
Mikki, girl we need to talk. It works both ways. Just like some brothas dont know how to put it down, some white boys how exactly what they are doing. Hell, I think sometimes they try harder because they have to defy that sterotype.
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Mikki {June 24th, 2008 at 11:36 am}
Again tell me where to sign up!!!
I promise I can be down if you fine a white boy thats cute with swagger, I can work with him I promise lol.
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 11:31 am}
would you change to being a white woman instead of a black man if you knew the change was permanent?
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Cyn {June 24th, 2008 at 12:10 pm}
A friend of mine just got pleasantly surprised by a pink toe with a rather large endowment.
She said and I quote “He put it down.” LOL
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 2:43 pm}
COSIGN…my non-Black experiences were definitely memorable…with the exception of one…it’s like they have something to prove…and that whole “Black men are bigger” ish…(smh) not buying it…Iprefer large men…and I have seen some pelvis thumbs hanging of brothers that claim Mandingo status…and I have been with a tripod of Caucasian decent! so d*ck is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you’re gonna get! (gump style)
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Cheryl {June 24th, 2008 at 4:28 pm}
she said pelvis thumbs.
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 2:56 pm}
pink toe’s. LOL! i thought that was germaine to the CONUS south. what part of the universe do you hail from? you ever heard keebler’s or quaker’s?
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Cyn {June 24th, 2008 at 3:09 pm}
So. Cal born and raised. I have heard of Keeblers but not Quakers. They are also called Becky’s out my way. LOL
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ok…i can totally agree with the statement that i would definitely rather be a white man than a black woman…something about still having a penis attracts me to that decision!! i don’t know what it is, but i can’t imagine living with out!!
anyway, i have to say that i have no loyalty nor do i expect loyalty to the race when it comes to finding love and compatibility!! i can’t fault a black woman for finding love in a man of another race just as i can’t fault a black man for finding love in another race!! love is love!! it transcends things that most people can’t or won’t understand until they find the one they love!! i have dated a white woman, 2 persian women, a middle eastern woman, plenty of black women, an ethiopean woman, a somolian woman, 3 belizean women, and a columbian woman and i must say that they have all been freaky in their own rights!!
but which one do i chose to be with more than the others and give my undying affection and love to?? whichever one will treat me the best!!
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 9:33 am}
“something about still having a penis attracts me to that decision!! i don’t know what it is, but i can’t imagine living with out!!”
its the penis power. like winny churchill said, “walk soft and carry a big d*ck”
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Treezy F. Baby {June 24th, 2008 at 6:53 pm}
While that quote quite overtly resonates with phallic power…he said “stick” not “d*ck”.
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 11:35 am}
rosary beads, AME, CME, COGIC, Episcopal, Presbyterian, usher board meeting, pastors anniversary, tent revival, vacation bible school…
Aaaaaaa Meeeeeeeennnn.
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Black men are lovely. Some are particularly fine and scrumptious. It ’s my birthday (the 23rd of June) and I’m allowed to say what i want. Me love chocolate and in my very biased opinion they are the epitome of sensuous, deep and fulfilling bliss. I love full lips, nappy hair, the perfect fit, chocolate pheromones, sweet sweat, thigh muscles that beat out the smooth rhythm of ecstasy and firm buttocks that render you submissive…wait, I’m saying too much. gotta go, got school to focus on and like Goodeness I gotta stop at the battery store. I know now that not all Black men are created equal, but I’m feeling a little biased thes days. Peace, I’m outtie. My birthday is always a sunny day cause I’m a Cancer woman. Incongruent statements make me sound like GK. Lol! Moral of the story is: black men-yummy. *black power fist* …not that there’s anything wrong with vanilla. if vanilla rocks your world, i expect you to flip those pancakes. Miss Patterson, 2008
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ForReal {June 24th, 2008 at 8:27 am}
Happy B Day!
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2Degreez {June 24th, 2008 at 8:48 am}
Happy birthday :o)
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Suga&Spice {June 24th, 2008 at 9:13 am}
Happy Birthday. Hope you had a good one!!
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 9:23 am}
I know I am late, but just count me early for next year… Happy “PUSH! WAAHH WAHHHH! SMACK!” PatteeCakes!
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 9:28 am}
“epitome of sensuous, deep and fulfilling bliss. I love full lips, nappy hair, the perfect fit, chocolate pheromones, sweet sweat, thigh muscles that beat out the smooth rhythm of ecstasy and firm buttocks that render you submissive…”
GIIIIIIIIRL!!!! if I didn’t already need batteries before, I DEFINITELY need them now, you trying to make me “reach out and touch someone”…I’m trying to find my birthday goggles, it doesn’t have to be MY b(earth)day for them to work, does it? I mean it can be my e-homegirl-who’s real name I don’t know-and have never laid eyes on before in life’s b-day right? right?
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Miss Patterson {June 24th, 2008 at 10:43 am}
goodeness , of course you can wear your birthday goggles on my bday. i hereby give you permission to live it up in my honor (LOL)!
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 10:49 am}
THANKS! (gasping in shock and awe) the b-day goggle Gods are smiling on me, there is a certain 3 legged favorite of mine whose born-day is TODAY (6/24)…hmmmmm…GK said “f*ck ‘em and feed’em cake”…I wonder which flavor of frosting goes best with red patent leather?
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 12:07 pm}
that’s a good theme for you today. (FAFC) BTW, any frosting goes goes with red patent leather. (dam i’m stuttering again) i have a taste for butterscotch walnut. i can already tell you’re gonna have a good day, you’ve got the right attitude. salute!
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 12:42 pm}
(curtsy) thanks luv.. butterscotch huh? gonna put that in your file…lol…I spilled red kool-aid on my white sundress, so my day ain’t the brightest, but my VeeEssBee fam always makes my good days great…
Fly... {June 24th, 2008 at 11:02 am}
lol. goodeness you’re so funny. you can’t wear birthday goggles on someone elses birthday.
*giggles* But you can wear Tuesday goggles.
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 9:35 am}
happy belated b-day ms. p. and, ummm…
“if vanilla rocks your world, i expect you to flip those pancakes”
…oh gosh
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 11:46 am}
Happy b-day dammit!
now if incongruent statements make you sound like me then what an extraordinary congruence of genius it is. this world is nothing if not paradoxical and ironic. genuflect to a living iconoclast.
joy ur birthday girl. heh, heh, heh….
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Cheryl {June 24th, 2008 at 11:58 am}
Happy Birthday
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JBoogie {June 24th, 2008 at 12:41 pm}
Happy birthday girlie!
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don giovanni {June 24th, 2008 at 1:29 pm}
happy birthday!!!!
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aja {June 24th, 2008 at 4:26 pm}
happy birthday suga!
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Miss Patterson {June 24th, 2008 at 7:29 pm}
awww…you guys are sweet!
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heh heh heh, happy birthday miss patterson! what an inspired message! i know what you mean, tho… have days like that, when i could just do backflips, from the sheer feel-good feelings that black men can inspire in me…
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I think this post was o
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I think this post was on point. I believe that black women have a certain sense of loyalty towards black men and men in general have a loyalty well to themselves so they feel when they do date outside their race there shouldn’t be an issue because women are just women. I personally do not have an issue with interacial dating as long as statements aren’t made as to why one race is better than black women etc.. Especially when those men who make those statements are black themselves and probably have black mothers,grandmothers, etc.
I enjoyed todays post..I am a lurker and a fan ..but I am glad you all make statements based on being men and not just black men.
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 9:39 am}
“I enjoyed todays post..I am a lurker and a fan ..but I am glad you all make statements based on being men and not just black men.”
thanks for stopping by. hope you decide to unlurk again in the future
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LMAO @ u using the word “bangingest”…thanks for the compliment.
I’m not sure I’d choose to be a black man over being a white woman, for one I would completely suck at being a man although here in Atlanta I’d blend in easily being a man on the outside and a woman on the inside, i guess. But black men have troubles and issues I will never understand…black women have issues too, but after 30 years of womanhood, I’d say I’m pretty well versed on the art of being a woman and would choose the same.
But, this post was very entertaining and semi-insightful. I agree that the cause of interracial dating, for the most part, is quite simple. I’d also like to enter, that as a whole, society has made it easier for men to date outside their race for the very same reason that you mentioned-they are men. Think about how many times we’ve all heard the phrase “oh chile, he’s a man” to excuse otherwise “inappropriate” (for lack of a better word) behavior. Women, on the other hand, have been held to different standards…black women especially. Think about back in our 60s or further, if a black man brought home a white girl, there might be some discomfort in the house, but folks would accept it, in fact, some folks might see it as a big “screw you I got your girl” to the white man. Now, picutre a black woman coming home with a white man…probably a little more unacceptable since she probably has a father who has been intimidated or treated poorly by some white man and a brother who has been thrown in jail for no reason by some white man….that’s a little more of a “get your white hands off our women” scenario. I’m sure that’s partly the source of black womens loyalty. Not to mention, we’ve been given evidence for decades that we aren’t attractive to other races…why would we have stepped out in droves? To be rejected by the same group of men who (historically) barely ever put us on the cover of magazines, in movies, and on billboards? In the past few years (maybe ten or more) more black women are dating white men, because now the secret is out…they think we’re the bangingest women around too! LMBO
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 9:46 am}
“But, this post was very entertaining and semi-insightful.”
lol, just “semi” insightful?
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 12:14 pm}
black folk wouldn’t be every shade in the spectrum if white men and women didn’t find us attractive. now what white folk do in the media and elsewhere is a jedi mind trick but surely we can see thru that.
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“bangingest”
LOL, I can dig it! I see a few talking about a new T-shirt idea….well, here’s one! LOL!
I say, whatever tickles your fancy, whatever floats your boat, to each is own, etc. Like the man said, “do you!” LOL!
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 9:30 am}
in all caps…on a baby tee…in rhinestones!
I know I would wear it!
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Great post. I’m one of those women that would choose my gender over my race (i love being a girl!) but it’ll be interesting to see how that one pans out.
I think a lot of the loyalty to the race behavior that black women exhibit may be more of a ’stand by your man’ mentality. I think women are socialized to support, nurture, etc. and supporting your man is no exception. I guess it all looks that same since ‘our men’ are black men, but I wonder how much of it is purely about race vs. nurturing? It may be pretty impossible to tease the reason out, but interesting to think about.
Regarding the freak-race war, i don’t belive white women are inherently more freaky, but culturally they were often not raised with the same taboos and paranoia that black women were. Black women were already hyper-sexualized, and our momma’s likley overemphasized acting ‘like a lady’
(my mom certainly did) and religion just put it over the edge…not only would our mother’s disapprove and we’d be ‘bad girls’ if we did it and, heaven forbid, liked it, but we’d be on the express bus to hell. That can be a hard one to overcome (but judging from our comments, i think most of us as VSB have successfully connected with our inner freak :-)) Now white Catholic women have some of the same religious issues (Catholic guilt is a real and tangible thing), but they don’t have that same general cultural fear of acting like the whore all of the white people say/think you are.
It’ll be interesting to see if our generation (i’m 30) raises children with the same issues; i think we’ll find Black women will be raised with less sexual taboos and shame than my generation was, for better or worse, especially given that now our 8 year old girls are sexualized in ridiculous ways, socially and physcially (growing up wanting to be strippers, getting their period and wearing B-cup bras in the 4th grade) but don’t get me started on that!
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 9:34 am}
“getting their period and wearing B-cup bras in the 4th grade”
ForReal…I think the governmental hormone experiments stared in ‘79, I am 28 and (in 4th grade) that was me…
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Suga&Spice {June 24th, 2008 at 9:50 am}
I’m 29 and it was me too. I blame the damn vaccinatiions
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 9:49 am}
“It’ll be interesting to see if our generation (i’m 30) raises children with the same issues;”
i think it might be worse. what i mean by that is that i think women might start being even harder on their daughters, especially since now, if they freak-off, it could end up on rude.com or youporn and be seen by millions
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Cheryl {June 24th, 2008 at 12:01 pm}
I’m 34 and while I’m a smidge older - I was the c-cup in the 4th grade.
My daughter is 7 (will be 8 end of september) … I’m scared to death. She already has a poke out. and long legs. effit - imma go home and lock her in her closet.
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aja {June 24th, 2008 at 4:32 pm}
o0o girl i know what u mean.. it sucked being the tallest n most “developed” in the class..lol now i have a pre-teen whos the same way..and im STILL not ready for that. U just have to talk to her about everything and anything. And stay all up in her business so she wont end up with some ass pic on facebook..lol
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Cheryl {June 25th, 2008 at 9:17 am}
that lil heffatina have an ass pic anywhere that I ever find I will break my foot off in her ass.
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ForReal {June 24th, 2008 at 3:47 pm}
Interesting point. I feel that people growing up with myspace, facebook etc. are more and more comfortable letting it all hang out all the time and just don’t give a fuck who sees what. And it makes me cringe so yeah, when I have kids I will be all over that issue!
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JBoogie {June 24th, 2008 at 12:44 pm}
Mine started growing in the 2nd grade…1983…I was flat one day and a B cup the next!
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ForReal {June 24th, 2008 at 3:45 pm}
Good Lord ladies!!! Looks like i’m the only one that was doing ‘i must, i must, i must increase my bust’ exercises until i was 12
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Miss Patterson {June 25th, 2008 at 2:30 am}
i got you beat on that one ForReal…i was doing those exercises well into adulthood. lol.
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Luvvie {June 26th, 2008 at 1:53 pm}
I’m still doing those exercises
*cues violins*
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This is so on point for me. I recently began to date outside of my race and it is amazing the amount of flak I am catching. Over the past 6 months have been seeing (non-exclusively) a white guy, and just about every black woman I know is up in arms about it. And the thing that tickles me is that about 85% of these women are single with no prospects of any kind of stable relationship on the forefront. (my mother included) And for the record the same shit that drives us crazy about black men, white me do too. Like The Champ said, they are men first.
Now, I never intended to go looking for ‘Something New’ or anything like that. We met, we talked and bam it went from there. I will say that dating him has definately opened my eyes to other possibilities. Call me crazy, but I would much rather be with a great guy who wants and desires to be with me and is excited about being in my presence versus being bitter and alone due to some unspoken racial loyalty BS.
Another thing I have noticed recently is that more and more white men have been approaching me and asking me out. They very timidly say, ‘I think you are beautiful, do you date outside of your race?’
Hmmm, makes me wonder if they arent the one’s trying something new.
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 9:51 am}
“Call me crazy, but I would much rather be with a great guy who wants and desires to be with me and is excited about being in my presence versus being bitter and alone due to some unspoken racial loyalty BS.”
you crazy!!!!
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Leila {June 24th, 2008 at 11:11 am}
It’s really hard to find a great guy and you should be happy to find one! You should ignore the other women. It’s a double-standard too. A lot of black women get flack for dating outside of their race. I remember getting flack in college for having white male friends and it came from both black and Latino men. The part that got me was getting flack from one guy who I was previously dating but decided that he would rather be a player than commit to one woman. I didn’t get it…..
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Fly... {June 24th, 2008 at 11:34 am}
Not directed at you, but as we all know, there is nothing new under the sun. White (and all other) men have been attracted to and dating/ marrying Black women since the beginning of time. It’s just very quietly kept due to the people that record and distribute history and the fact that this goes against the standard of beauty that they try to perpetuate. I wish I had the book near me so I could cite it, but “Black Beauty” by Ben Arogundade, but he discusses this (African Black women as wives and girlfriends of royalty and aristocrats). Black women have been beautiful and attractive since forever, and white men aren’t just starting to notice. It’s just been kinda taboo in America due to American history.
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Monnie {June 24th, 2008 at 11:59 am}
“They very timidly say, ‘I think you are beautiful, do you date outside of your race?’”
Wow. Go ‘head then! I remember back in undergrad there were a lot of white men that were curious but did not approach black women out of fear of rejection and fear of how other people would react would react.
I have noticed an increase of black women/white men interracial dating in my area. Honestly, I am proud to see it. Who are they to tell you where you can find your happiness and future mate?
Black men have always dated outside the race but (some) go up in arms when ever they see a us with a white man. I think that some of them feel as if we would think that a black man is not good enough for us now that we have a white man (I have actually heard this from some dude before). Don’t get me wrong because I have heard some women say that about black men dating outside the race too…
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 12:03 pm}
welcome, come on in. enjoy yourself.
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I am absolutely enamored by ur ability to apply statistics to a real worls scenario…I have been having this debate forever and when I break it down to a “numbers game” I can see the lightbulb come on over folks’ heads…so on point…I’m going to buy u lunch…shepherd’s pie and guava juice on me!
I have dated men that weren’t Black, and that whole gender loyalty shpeel has rung true er’time! a man, is a man, is a man…although, I find myself more physically drawn to men of color, I have occasionally crossed paths with some nice looking examples of the other white meat…
dope post!
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 9:52 am}
“I’m going to buy u lunch…shepherd’s pie and guava juice on me!”
with gravy too??
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 10:07 am}
(hands on knees speaking in condescending toddler voice)
yes sir! anything for my little Deming-phile…
(pinching cheeks with both hands)
and if you’re a really good boy, and make a “happy plate”… we can go for butter pecan sno-cones after!
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 12:10 pm}
“and if you’re a really good boy, and make a “happy plate”… we can go for butter pecan sno-cones after!”
this makes my heart sing
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1. I’ve had several people, usually feminazis, ask which I am first: Woman or Black. While many Black women say the two can’t be seperated, my answer has always been that I am Black FIRST simply because when my parents got pregnant, there was one thing everyone knew for sure: my mother was baking a Black baby. If the election had been between a white man and a Black woman, would your first inclination be to vote for the white man, because he’s a man or to vote for the Black woman because she’s Black?? Or would your maleness stop you from even considering, among many other reasons, leaning toward a candidate because she was Black?
2. AGREED!
3. I know a lot of Black women. Very few of them cite loyalty to Black men as the reason they don’t date outside of their race. There are two recurring reasons I’ve heard in my years. 1) They aren’t physically attracted to non-Black men. 2) Non-Black men weren’t in their picture of ‘fairy tale perfect future’ because white men just weren’t an option. They weren’t an option because many Black girls are taught that white men want the prettiest, best they can get. And that means white women. And as others have said, white men are still men. If more folks had real non-Black friends, they’d tell you that white men do some down right grimey shyt and so do asian men, short men, and ghey men.
4. Yeah I know you didn’t have #4. Can you really take the hat off?? My Black hat is a part of me. I wear it without even knowing I wear it. It doesn’t hold me back or down but it’s nothing I’m able to put on a shelf. It’s not my only defining garb. There’s my knapsack of entitlement, panties of promise, and my stillettos of stank. All things I wear without even having to think about it.
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 9:57 am}
1. i’d vote black, but i don’t think that analogy works. politicially i’m black first, but as a human being, my maleness comes first
3. “1) They aren’t physically attracted to non-Black men. 2) Non-Black men weren’t in their picture of ‘fairy tale perfect future’ because white men just weren’t an option.”
don’t these both come back to loyalty though? even subconsciously?
4. yeah, the hats always there, along with my brotha boxerbriefs.
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Miss Patterson {June 24th, 2008 at 10:36 am}
“brotha boxerbriefs”
do these really exist? are they form fitting and white? what i mean is are they imprinted with the vsb.com logo and sh*t? if not, please don’t tease us (the vsb sistas) like that. we don’t appreciate random visuals like that if they’re not true. so, just stop it!
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 12:13 pm}
“do these really exist? are they form fitting and white? what i mean is are they imprinted with the vsb.com logo and sh*t”
……
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aja {June 24th, 2008 at 4:41 pm}
lol
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Fly... {June 24th, 2008 at 10:59 am}
“3. I know a lot of Black women. Very few of them cite loyalty to Black men as the reason they don’t date outside of their race. There are two recurring reasons I’ve heard in my years. 1) They aren’t physically attracted to non-Black men.”
I agree with this as this is true for me. I would definitely date outside of my race if I came across a non-Black man that I found attractive. However, I must say that white men have their chivalry game on point, which is not something that I can say about the majority of Black men that I have come across. Chivalry is attractive.
I must admit that I’ve always avoided Black men that date white women. I feel like, if you are attracted to her, you can’t possibly be attracted to me, because I don’t feel as though we have anything in common. Likewise, I don’t feel Black men and white/Asian/etc. men have much in common. Looks are different, demeanor is different, mannerisms are different, culture is different, social outlook is different.
my opinion
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 12:16 pm}
“I must admit that I’ve always avoided Black men that date white women. I feel like, if you are attracted to her, you can’t possibly be attracted to me, because I don’t feel as though we have anything in common”
thing is, you hafta remember that men are attracted to women. i know that seems simplistic, but since men are attracted to ALL TYPES of women, just because hes not with someone who looks like you doesnt automatically meant that he wouldnt be or isnt attracted to you.
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2Degreez {June 24th, 2008 at 12:36 pm}
“I must admit that I’ve always avoided Black men that date white women. I feel like, if you are attracted to her, you can’t possibly be attracted to me, because I don’t feel as though we have anything in common.”
I think a lot of black men who date white women are doing it because of personality preference not just looks. I know black men who usually (not exclusively) date white women, but would gladly settle with a black woman if he felt they were compatible.
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JBoogie {June 24th, 2008 at 12:48 pm}
“However, I must say that white men have their chivalry game on point”
**MLK funeral parlor fan**
I will say this…the one white guy I dated in high school…was a gentleman even at 17-18. I’m not saying I haven’t had brothas be chivalrous, cause I have…but in some places, they’re like a needle in a haystack.
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 12:26 pm}
now see hostess this question of uurn: “If the election had been between a white man and a Black woman, would your first inclination be to vote for the white man, because he’s a man or to vote for the Black woman because she’s Black?? Or would your maleness stop you from even considering, among many other reasons, leaning toward a candidate because she was Black?”
does not directly affect you to the extent Champs question does.
Champs question: “***don’t believe me? okay, lets do a little exercise. imagine that there’s a gun to you head, and the only thing stopping the trigger from being pulled is a choice you’re told to make: you must either change your gender or your race. (ie, a black woman would have to choose between either becoming a white woman or a black man) without even reading the comments, i bet the majority of black women will keep their race, while most black men will choose to keep their gender. ***
but this right here, you said: “There’s my knapsack of entitlement, panties of promise, and my stillettos of stank. All things I wear without even having to think about it.”
i’m buying that. yep sir. i believes it. LOL!
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I will very much rather change my race than my gender. I am now married to my second black husband and I will declare that I do not want to be in a black man’s shoes.
On all the other stuff, I grew up in a diverse neighborhood and it seemed at the time that all the white girls were getting all the play. Our black brothas were over looking us for the “skinnier, prettier,” girls across the way. Once my youngest brother (2 years my junior) turned 14, I quickly found out that those lights were willing to do more than us darks were. Which in my opinion now was a good thing at the time.
It had much to do with the upbringing, which was honorable, outside of the fact of being made to feel that “good” girls are not suppose to want or even like sex. It was kind of confusing as a tweenager and very misleading. But we (I) soon got pass all of that and let nature do its thing and now I digress.
I was not wholly made aware of my extensive sexual capabilities until I was 25 and met my youngest son’s father who just happened to be Caucasian. My first husband was a black PK and very young when we married. At the time it was exciting but however basic.
What did I get off topic…?
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Raqi {June 24th, 2008 at 9:33 am}
I mean exciting however basic with the PK.
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 10:00 am}
“I do not want to be in a black man’s shoes. ”
not even if theyre really nice shoes?
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Raqi {June 24th, 2008 at 10:34 am}
Not even if they were some of Esquivel’s finest wing tips. I watch my husband every day and have the utmost respect for him because it’s not easy.
But I guess you know that. LOL
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 10:52 am}
I’d never ever ever choose to be a White woman! Fuck privilige, if I were a Black man, I’d 1) still get to be Black and 2) get to be the change I’d like to see in Black men. I’d be respectful and loving to my people and say all the same shit I say now, and it would mean more coming from me as a man because our sexist society deems it so. Plus, I’d have more mates to choose from. I could be a feminist Black man, but I’d never want to lose my Blackness or be a ‘Black power White girl’. And if I woke up with White girl hair, I would honestly cry. It’s pretty for them, but I love what I got.
The only downside is that I’d be a light-skinned Black man and you sisters have a mind-boggling predeliction against yellow men. More for me, I suppose!
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Raqi {June 24th, 2008 at 11:57 am}
I love being a woman. Sugar, spice and everythang nice.
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 12:31 pm}
profound
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I try to stay away from discussions with black women over attraction to non-black women. It inevitably goes along the lines of me telling them that I’m not attracted to person A necessarily because of their race, it’s just she has some combination of things that I find attractive. Then I explain that I’m just as much into black women that I’m attracted to as much as any other race.
Then we start getting into discussions of well, black women are always looking for x y men, why don’t you date those. My response, I go after the women that I’m attracted to regardless of race. If I’m not dating a black woman now, it’s because she was not interested in me.
It’s a lose-lose situation. And that’s why I try to avoid those discussions because whoever is willing to start it with me most likely does not share my perspective.
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Precious Rubenstein {June 24th, 2008 at 11:25 am}
Dangit! I had a response and it didn’t post! Hmph!
To recap:
I never assess white men my age for attractiveness and dateability because I assume they never look at me in that way. Maybe I’m just oblivious, maybe it’s a conditioned response? ‘Something New’ made for a semi-interesting movie and inspired an Oprah follow up show, but I don’t know any black women for whom that is a reality.
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kamakula {June 24th, 2008 at 11:57 am}
I’m not talking about passive disinterest here.
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 12:23 pm}
“maybe it’s a conditioned response”
nail on head. i think one of the fundamental underlying issues in this discussion is the fact that many black women feel as if no other race of males would be attracted to them, so if a black man isn’t, they’d be left with nobody. this is a really sad and fatalistic viewpoint, when you think about it. i got depressed just typing that shit
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Precious Rubenstein {June 24th, 2008 at 1:08 pm}
“sad and fatalistic”
I agree. It’s something I’d like to work on.
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tiffany {June 24th, 2008 at 2:37 pm}
“i think one of the fundamental underlying issues in this discussion is the fact that many black women feel as if no other race of males would be attracted to them, so if a black man isn’t, they’d be left with nobody. ”
but that’s not entirely pulled out of our a**es either. non-black men* aren’t exactly falling all over themselves to date us.
of course it’s entirely possible that they’re just a lot more subtle with the approach than black men tend to be and my clueless a** just never knew i was being holla’ed at.
(*counting afro-latinos as black too.)
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ForReal {June 24th, 2008 at 3:53 pm}
True that Champ. Fatalistic indeed.
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 12:35 pm}
dam what planet are you on? u never saw a black and white couple is that what ur saying?
i can see this was a response to kamakula but …for whom what is a reality?
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Precious Rubenstein {June 24th, 2008 at 1:06 pm}
Uh…
What I’m saying is, I personally don’t know many black women who are involved in relationships with white men, or men outside of their race, for that matter. I certainly see the inverse, but I don’t know of any black women in my social circles or beyond who can speak on this in any personal way. The movie was interesting, but for the black women I know, that’s kind of where it ends.
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Uhhhh, no shit you’d rather be a white man…do you know the stereotypes that come along with being a black woman…oh wait you do. Hell I’d rather be a white women if I had to make the choice. They make more money, they aren’t grouped into these agregious stereotypes and they can get away with marrying for money w/o being looked down upon.
However after saying that I could not date outside of my race, yeah it has something to do with loyalty…then again I just love me some chocolate. I’m not even a fan of the light-skinned brothers. Give me big, black and montrous…lol…oooh I love me some him.
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Leila {June 24th, 2008 at 11:16 am}
“I’d rather be a white women if I had to make the choice. They make more money”
There was a stat that came out last year that Asian women make the most money followed by black women, then white women, and last was Hispanic women.
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Fly... {June 24th, 2008 at 11:56 am}
Hmm… For some reason I don’t believe the stat that Black women make more money than white women. The only way I would believe that is if Oprah tipped the scales all by her damn self. Or maybe I would even believe it based on the number of Black working mother compared to the number of white stay at home moms/homemakers. But I feel like if jobs/positions were compared (BW executive vs WW executive, BW Burger King employee vs WW Burger King employee) that statistic wouldn’t be true.
But then again, I don’t read statistics, and I could very well be dead wrong.
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tiffany {June 24th, 2008 at 1:21 pm}
College-educated black women make more money than college-educated white women. We also work more hours, so that’s probably why.
But for really real, white men make the most on average. Every one else — black men, black women, white women, etc. — are clustered ’round the crumbs.
references:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/bythenumbers/2005-03-28-income-education_x.htm
and
http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/26/do-black-women-earn-more-than-white-women/
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Teacia {June 25th, 2008 at 12:04 pm}
college educated is a group…we were talking about a whole.
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Teacia {June 24th, 2008 at 2:52 pm}
Well she’s actually wrong, the census shows that it’s asian(+8,000 annually), then white women(+5,000 annually), black women and then latinos(-6,000 annually)…but it’s all relative.
And the only reason I know this is b/c I’ve been debating statistics on another site with a angry black man who’s a little hung up on statistics.
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 12:41 pm}
this aint got shit to do with shit per se but my instincts told me to put it out here.
“Men are generally more careful of the breed of their horses and dogs than of their children.” William Penn
“In marriage do thou be wise: prefer the person before money, virtue before beauty, the mind before the body; then thou hast a wife, a friend, a companion, a second self.” William Penn
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Fly... {June 24th, 2008 at 12:49 pm}
Kahn, I think you’re intelligent as hell.
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 3:08 pm}
thanks, that’s fly coming from you. (pun intended) thanx again luv.
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JBoogie {June 24th, 2008 at 12:51 pm}
“In marriage do thou be wise: prefer the person before money, virtue before beauty, the mind before the body; then thou hast a wife, a friend, a companion, a second self.” William Penn
I subscribe to this wholeheartedly…now if/when I find a man that does as well…good times!
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 2:51 pm}
“In marriage do thou be wise: prefer the person before money, virtue before beauty, the mind before the body; then thou hast a wife, a friend, a companion, a second self.” William Penn
I think I am smiling head to toe right now…THIS is what “should” be…but isn’t…it’s what I desire…seeking, being sought…but I am terrified of finding (or being found by) and losing (or being lost by)…DAMN!
GK…you are truly killing me softly over here…truly…
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I was wondering when this would come up. I think the loyalty thing is one of the most brilliant things I have ever read. And while I think that a White man would choose to keep his gender over his race (because they have a secret obsession with Black men and their phalluses anyway), I think a White woman would keep her race. Black women are instructed to put the needs of the race before her needs as a woman. And, when you combine that with the fact that Black people consistently deem the struggle of the Black man as THE defining Black struggle….you have a bunch of painfully loyal sisters and blatantly disloyal men.
When I was younger, I dated Black guys only because of the values of my household and my loyalty. After being pissed on by Black men and passed over for White women who look like a Kleenex after someone wiped off their makeup, I still date Black only. But only because I am absolutely positively NOT attracted to White men. Like many other sisters, as Hostess mentioned. Same for Asian men and most native Spanish speakers, with the exception of the ones who are “Black” Hispanics. I won’t settle for shitty Black man just to say I have one, nor will I step out just to have a man.
I think strong family is the key to strong nation, and that it would be in the best interest of the community as well as the country as a whole if Black people stopped interrmarrying and took care of home for a few more decades before looking elsewhere. However, I do give Black women a pass to date/marry out if they are doing it with an open heart for the right reasons. At the end of the day, there simply are not enough Black men to go around.
While I have tried to take a “mature” attitude about Black men and non-Black women, ultimately, I do not respect Black men who date women of other races exculsively or those who marry them. I think in doing so, they relinquish all right to complain about race and racism, I think they are cads, disloyal, traitors and I could care less if the Klan came and burned crosses in their lawns. Fuck, I’ll come burn one too. I am tired of Black women having to hold the race together on our own.
Sorry, haven’t had breakfast yet. Very cranky.
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 10:47 am}
Ok, I won’t burn a cross, but I will laugh at you in your face in public or walk straight in to you or your girl instead of stepping to the side and let you pass ( I did the latter once and the chick almost fell down. In my defense, she was three tons of ‘fun’ [as the White women brothers pick tend to be] and she didn’t move for me either. I was walking faster and she almost rolled her fat ass away. )
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Jess {June 24th, 2008 at 11:28 am}
“I do not respect Black men who date women of other races exculsively or those who marry them. I think in doing so, they relinquish all right to complain about race and racism, I think they are cads, disloyal, traitors and I could care less if the Klan came and burned crosses in their lawns.”
“Ok, I won’t burn a cross, but I will laugh at you in your face in public or walk straight in to you or your girl instead of stepping to the side and let you pass”
That’s… just… well, racist.
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Jess {June 24th, 2008 at 11:30 am}
Like, thats VERY racist. I cant get over that.
If a white man said that about a white woman dating a black man, that shit would be considered RACIST. There was a whole movement based on this shit. There was a war. So how is it any different if you say it about your own? Do you want equality, or supremacy? I don’t get it.
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 11:41 am}
Black people cannot be racist. Racism is a system of privilige based on race. Thus, as an oppressed minority, I cannot be a racist. I can be a cultural elitist or prejudiced, but not racist.
A White man WOULD be considered racist for saying that, becuase it has been the system of slavery, oppression and abuse that his people created that has us in the situation we are in. If he is seeking to end interracial dating, he is seeking to protect the “purity” of his race and his life of privilige. If I am seeking to end it, I am seeking to better my people and encourage Black men and women to love one another FIRST before taking on the challenege of loving other people. I think Blacks and White can intermarry someday, just not yet.
If you are White, you have completely proved my reasoning that interracial couples shouldn’t be. Cause you have no clue where I am coming from. A well informed person wouldn’t even pose that question- equalty or supremacy. LMAO. GTFOH. Why do people confuse intergration with equality and solidarity with supremacy? The equality I am most conserned with is between Black women and Black men, the latter of whom I see trying to exert supremacy over the former.
(Patiently waiting a poor reference to Bob Marley or Dr. King any minute now)
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Precious Rubenstein {June 24th, 2008 at 11:46 am}
I immediately flashed back to the loud ass argument Kevin Powell had on the street with that white girl on the first Real World. “Black people cannot be racist!!”
That was real random, sorry. Carry on.
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 12:01 pm}
I love him! Kevin Powell for Congress! Brooklyn stand up!
Jess {June 24th, 2008 at 12:01 pm}
No, I am not white.
Interesting you would jump to that conclusion, and laugh me down before even waiting to see if you were correct. But ok.
And for the record, black people are racist to me and my people all the time. Black people not being able to be racist? That’s the dumbest shit I ever heard. Everybody is capable of racism. Prejudice, bigotry, cultural elitist — fuck semantics, it’s all under the same umbrella.
A white man who was once a white boy born in NYC with ancestors who were, for example, Irish (the Irish were enslaved or “indentured” the same way the Africans were, brought here on the same ships from Europe), that white man who was ignorant to his own history, whos history actually did not actively participate in the oppression of black men and women, one day will act PURELY OUT OF IGNORANCE and say, “look. I have no problem with black people. I work with them. But if I see a white girl dating a black guy, I will not serve them food, I will walk into them in the street, and I will probably slap her when I get the chance” — That’s racism based on IGNORANCE, not ancestral roots. With that said, YES, you are just as capable as he is.
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Miss Patterson {June 24th, 2008 at 1:02 pm}
First, Jess…*slow clap*. Secondly, and listen up because this is for everyone. If you each of you researched your family tree you would soon realize that there are no pure bloods on this earth. I would venture to say that most of you are the result of 2 people consensually digging eachother who are from a different culture, race or nationality. (even if that mixing was 5 or 6 generations ago) So, to say that you don’t like interracial couples is the equivalent of looking in the mirror and saying you wish you didn’t exist. Not to mention if we didn’t have race mixing, we wouldn’t have Panama…and without Panama we wouldn’t have The Champ or gasp! VSB. the thought makes me cry…
GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 2:54 pm}
like I said…I am a product of a product of some good ole interracial relations…so I feel you!
@ Miss P…bite your tongue…no VSB.com…what kind of world would that be!!
Miss Patterson {June 24th, 2008 at 12:47 pm}
First, let me say that there are two types of racism: the first is what we term loosely in our everyday conversation that is discrimination towards ANYONE because of their skin color or race. Then there is institutional racism, which some of us learned in a college history class and can only be enforced by the race who is ‘holding the power’. But since we’re not talking to the White House or any form of the gov’t on this site…my point is WE ALL have the power to be racist.
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 10:59 am}
no…TOLDJA…how do you really feel? lol… breakfast or not, your RBG behind was on top of this…I understand your POV, and respect it…to each his own…as a product of a product of an interracial connection…I have mixed views on racial romance, but in general, I feed from the table of “make it work for yourself” and wash it down with some good ole fashioned “dew” you…(fist in the air)
sidebar-there was a brother walking with a plump pink toe? really? down here, they sleep w/ them, use ‘em up, even go as far as to knock a few up…but wouldn’t be caught in the street with one! I mean, whatchu look like with a WG that is built like a hefty cinch sack, when you KNOW you wouldn’t give a southern fried sister a second glance? doen here, the rule of thumb is, if you’re gonna get one, get a BAD one!!!
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 12:00 pm}
Girl, and they were in HARLEM! And she wasn’t plump. As a former size 18, I am sensitive to the plump girls. This bitch was fat. And she threw me shade before I had even noticed who she was with! I wouldn’t have even rolled my eyes at them because he looked like the sort of corny loser who’d be extra proud to show off his prized hog in Harlem. She shoulda moved outta my way, lol.
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Monnie {June 24th, 2008 at 12:18 pm}
Girl stop!
I’m in the South and some of the white women that I see black men with are a big and/or a hot trailer park mess.
Never the less, I agree. If you are going to step out, step up. At lest get someone that looks like they take a bath everyday and have themselves together.
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Cheryl {June 24th, 2008 at 12:38 pm}
Y’all hurting my feelings right and left here today!
I’m gonna go log off and hug my kids or some shit!
(not really but really)
(not really tho)
(but I am gonna hug my kids, I hug them all the time.)
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 12:58 pm}
@ Cheryl…my favorite un-demon, pee pee healer…how are we stepping on your toes mama? you know I love you like a play cousin…
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Cheryl {June 24th, 2008 at 1:11 pm}
oh dear @ pee pee healer.
the whole fat chick thing.
dammit im fat AND sexy. dammit!
(im still so laughing at un-demon and pee pee healer, imma put that shit on a business card)
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 2:56 pm}
girl than be your fat and fabulous self hell…you know this don’t make you no less “together”…if you don’t love it, nobody else will…you know that…lol…now gimme luve…you’re still my favorite thick, white play cousin…CTFU
JBoogie {June 24th, 2008 at 12:54 pm}
I live in Houston, and please believe me when I say brothas that go for the YT gals…usually pick the plainest, chunkiest, or trashiest looking ones. I’ve got three male relatives that mated/married one…one was fat, one was a pros, and one is bi-polar trailer trash. When I actually see a brother with a cute one, I wanna go over and high five him for real!
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 12:59 pm}
marrying a PRO? et tu brute? LAWD…didn’t somone comment about turning hoes to housewives yesterday? (smh) if you wouldn’t wife a Black ho…why wife a White one? DUDE!
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Suga&Spice {June 24th, 2008 at 11:24 am}
‘However, I do give Black women a pass to date/marry out if they are doing it with an open heart for the right reasons. At the end of the day, there simply are not enough Black men to go around.’
Black men dont get the same pass? Just curious
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 11:46 am}
Did you read what I said? LOL. The reason for the pass is because there aren’t enough Black men to go around and it isn’t fair to expect that some sisters are willing to sacrifice marriage, dating and child bearing for their loyalty. Why would I give Black men a pass when they are at a premium?
There are some, however, that sisters should consider tax write-offs….i.e. the thugs, the sell-outs, Tiger Woods, Clarence Thomas…take them PLEASE.
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kamakula {June 24th, 2008 at 12:11 pm}
The thing is. . . I’m not sure there are many black guys who *are* expecting sisters to make these sacrifices. This may be largely self imposed.
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 1:21 pm}
Black men don’t expect us to do it. Many of them could care less what we do. But by the sheer numbers of Black women who are unmarried and the smaller number of Black men we have to choose from, it is a plausable notion that Black women who desire to be married may feel they should choose something different.
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kamakula {June 24th, 2008 at 4:05 pm}
[quote]it is a plausable notion that Black women who desire to be married may feel they should choose something different.[/quote]
So what’s wrong with that?
Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 4:15 pm}
Nothing! Gee whiz. Am I not writing clearly?
kamakula {June 24th, 2008 at 11:38 am}
I’m not sure how black men dating only black women will improve the strengths of families. That implies that black women are unable to create strong families in relationships with men from other races. Or that black women are letting themselves get knocked up by men who only had a passing interest in them before moving on to someone else.
Two parents of the same race does not a strong family make.
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 11:53 am}
Well damn. Hi, my name is Sister Toldja and apparently I am the first Black Nationalist some of you all have ever encountered. Wow. Are more of you White than I knew, or just sheltered Black folks? I’m curious.
I am not so stupid as to think that simply by having Black families you have strong families. Something Min. Farahkhan said at the Million Man March (it was a large gathering of Black men in DC in ‘95. Some of you White ladies probably swung through, lol)- “you can’t have strong community without strong family and you can’t have strong nation without strong community. We must REBUILD the Black family.”
Basically, it’s about making a committment as a Black couple (M/F, M/M or F/F) to say “We are going to build a strong family unit. We are gonna raise aware Black children with knowledge of self, racial pride and personal responsibility for their brothers and sisters. We will make education a priority. We will build our community up and we will improve the circumstances for black people in this country as a result.”
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kamakula {June 24th, 2008 at 12:02 pm}
I don’t think we need to rebuild the *black* family. I think we just need to build families right (period). Education needs to be a priority for everyone. Communities need to be built for everyone. We raise children with a knowledge of self, pride, and responsibility for their fellow humans.
Do this, and we improve the circumstances for everyone in this country as a result.
Obviously, I don’t think that enforcing a black only families is a necessary step to achieving the goals you mentioned.
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 12:16 pm}
Whatever.
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Raqi {June 24th, 2008 at 12:28 pm}
kamakula, I partly agree with you. Family structure in itself needs to be dealt with no matter the color, creed or culture. Interracial marriages and unions are on the rise and we need to learn how to deal as a human race.
My personal situation makes civilized human interaction itself extremely important.
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Jess {June 24th, 2008 at 12:06 pm}
Why do you assume that everyone who debates against you must be white or sheltered?
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 12:20 pm}
Excuse me, I left Asian off the list. Your comments below have also justified my reasonings for not wanting to see a Black man with you or another Asian woman like you. Since you all feel so comfy cozy commenting on MY people and what WE should do, I will tell you that I think it is disgusting and despicable the way Asian women play Asian men to get their hands on any piece of shit White man or Black man they can get, when these losers are fetishizing the crap out of you. I understand that as “the model minority”, solidarity is not a priortity for Asians, as you have fared better in this country and successfully assimilated (not surprising, considering you didn’t have to do the whole chattle slavery thing). But I still find it peculiar to say the least.
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Jess {June 24th, 2008 at 12:26 pm}
LOL!! you are soooo racist! Where the hell did all that come from?.
Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 1:16 pm}
I apologize for being rude and crass. I am better than that.
Can you please explain to me why so many Asian women date non-Asian men?
Jess {June 24th, 2008 at 2:53 pm}
No. I don’t have to explain anything to you, you obviously know everything.
Just kidding. You don’t know anything. For the record, I see asian women dating asian men more than anything else. Interracial dating is not that common in our culture. Perhaps you only see the “phenomenon” because you pay so much attention every time it happens. I’ll let my future half black babies know that you pity them, and that they should have had a white daddy instead.
Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 12:26 pm}
My comment is showing up, fuck.
To sum it up, since you seem so comfortable giving me all this baseless “knowledge” about MY people and what WE should do, I think it’s despicable how Asian women will turn their backs on Asian men for any piece of White or Black man they can get, when these men are fetishizing you like no other. I know as the ‘model minority’ solidairty is not as pressing for, and you have done a right nice job at assimilating (makes sense as you all CHOSE to come here). But still, wtf?
I pity your future half-Black kids in advance and hope that you find a good White man to marry instead, because NO little half-Black girl or boy deserves a mother who knows so little about Black people, nor the mess of a Black man who would marry her.
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Jess {June 24th, 2008 at 4:09 pm}
Id also like to request that you look up such things as the California Constitution, which were an ignored part of the Jim Crow Laws. Laws were passed to prevent the chinese that were brought here (term: “Shanghai’d”) to work on the railroads from basic rights, all because of people like you — well, you know. People like you, with white skin.
Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 4:18 pm}
Keep going, you make me laugh. You are so fucking off, it is pathetic. You are likening a member of an oppressed minority to the people who passed Jim Crow laws. Like, I am ACTUALLY laughing out loud. You know what, I am soooo straight on what ever foolish Black man would date someone as ridiculous as you.
Suga&Spice {June 24th, 2008 at 12:20 pm}
Please dont assume that eveyone who disagrees with you is white. Being born a black woman does not predispose someone to sharing your views on this subject.
As a black woman, born and raised in West Baltimore (so rest assured I am not sheltered in the least bit) I can tell you I disagree with you on most of your points today. Not to mention your unneccasary insults and condesending tone do absolutely nothing for your arguements. It actually makes you sound just as irrational and closed minded as the folks you mentioned on those white supremecy sites.
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 1:28 pm}
I am not saying that people who disagree have to be sheltered or White. I was saying that the questions she raised led me to think this was the first time she’d heard the things I was saying. My attiude is not so uncommon, so I figured had she not known about Black nationalism, she hadn’t been exposed to it.
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kamakula {June 24th, 2008 at 11:44 am}
I just saw more of this - black women holding the race together on their lonesome? What exactly do you mean by this? What do you define as the black race? What exactly are you holding together? Why are you holding it?
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 11:57 am}
Are you White?
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kamakula {June 24th, 2008 at 12:05 pm}
Your comment about black women holding the race together suggests that this is being done to the exclusion of everyone else, black (male) or otherwise.
Given that context, I don’t think it’s an unfair question to ask, regardless of my personal background.
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 12:15 pm}
The reason I asked your race is because it’s unfair for me to log on to Very Smart Brothas.com and be expected to give a Black Studies 101 lesson to someone who doesn’t understand the need for Black solidarity. If you are Black, then I will do it because you need to hear it. Not to say all Black people woild agree with me, but there are stakes in me trying to drop some science on you. If you are White or Asian or Martian, why am I wasting my time? The fact that you are on this site probably means you are in to Black men and you are just clueless to the needs/wants and issues of Black women. Unless you are willing to stop dating Black men as a showing of sisterly solidarity….I’m good on trying to teach you the ways of Negronia.
What I WILL tell all my non-Black sisters is this…. and this is the feminsist in me speaking, not the Black militant…..word of advice- a lot of the Black men who like y’all are liking you all for the wrong reasons. And while my issues with them are seperate, as a woman, it offends me to see other women fetishized because of their race, their ‘otherness’ and because of some ignorant Black man’s self-hatred. If a Black man you date has nothing good to say about Black women, if he ONLY dates non-Black women and mentions this constantly, you might want to tell him to step off. Cause he may very well be dating your race and not you.
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Deviant {June 26th, 2008 at 12:09 am}
“Unless you are willing to stop dating Black men as a showing of sisterly solidarity….”
Who would cock-block themselves like that?
Why should any woman give up any man for the sake of making someone else feel good about themselves?
Sister Toldja {June 26th, 2008 at 12:11 am}
Who said anything about making sisters feel good? Ugh. And I wouldn’t expect any woman of another race to show more solidarity to us than our so-called brothers do. Have your white women, please.
The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 12:34 pm}
sister t, and i say this in the least condesending way possible, your age is showing.
it is possible to be pro-black without being anti-everything else, and insulting and immediately losing respect for a romantic coupling on sheer face value is extremely ignorant.
with that being said though, i do understand your frustrations, but on our very, very, very limited time here, how much sense does it make to immediately discount and dismiss someone romantic choice just because their ancestors were born a couple thousand miles away from yours?
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 12:36 pm}
actually, i guess this was somewhat condesending, but oh well. i’m sure you can handle it.
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 1:12 pm}
I dont expect all people of any race to agree with me. I know my values and thoughts are extreme and I am okay with that. At the end of the day, I know I am a lover and a figher and one who belives in and wants the best for all of humanity.
Champ, with all due respect, to say ‘why not date someone just because they have different ancestors’ (in my opinion) completely renders small the problem of race, racism, self-hatred in this country. My belief (and you can say that I am showing my age, but these are the values I was taught in a Pan-Africanist upbringing and the same values I will teach my children) is that Black people have a lot of work to do to better ourselves. And that we need to do that work FIRST before we can start spreading ourselves around. Our people are in peril and we need to come TOGETHER and address that.
Ironically, a lot of the pro-interracial dating folks start rallying for Black solidarity when their Black ass is up against the wall, or when some crime has been tresspassed against a Black person (usually a Black man) by a White person.
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 12:46 pm}
Toldya Girl, you know Frederick Douglas was married to two white women i think it is and he, in my eyes, was one of the greatest freedom fighters for black people in this country. …an escaped slave etc. BTW, if memory serves he was married to some black women too. so, do you feel that a man who marries a white woman or outside his race should not have the right to gripe about race issues that very surely affect them? …if so why?
yep the world is full of oxymorons and paradoxes.
what say ye?
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 1:05 pm}
I think Fredrick Douglass, and GOD BLESS HIM, is the classic example of the Black man who didn’t realize that loyalty to the race warrents a loyalty to Black women. I don’t understand people who devote their lives to fighting for Black rights, but cannot give the most basic of things to their own- their romantic love. Black men are often guilty of this and it is heart breaking. I think that Black men oft confuse loyalty to Black men with loyalty to Black people. I am not discrediting him as a freedom fighter, but it still sickens me a tad that in the midst of SLAVERY, he felt it was appopriate to mate with a White woman.
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don giovanni {June 24th, 2008 at 3:28 pm}
love knows no boundaries!! if a person doesn’t feel the love from someone from their own race, why cant that person find it in another?? loyalty to one’s race has nothing to do with love!! loyalty to love has everything to do with love!! i have nothing but the utmost respect for black women (i was raised by the strongest black woman on earth) and wish that i could say that i will only marry a black woman, but if i don’t get the love that i feel i deserve from a black woman, why can’t i find that love from someone else of another race who might treat me better and show me the love i deserve??
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 3:31 pm}
does loyalty trump love? doesn’t one of these come before and breed the other. tell me which?
would you love your black ideals and black nationalism more than your black husband. which one would take precedence if you had to make 1 choice. which one do/would you love more. …the ideals or the husband?
just wondering…
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 4:20 pm}
What? I don’t understand this question at all. How would my love for my ideals be challenged by my love for my husband? We would be married because we either saw eye to eye on those things, or found a way to live peacably without doing so.
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 5:07 pm}
the question is hypothetical and one that is based on priority. so hypothetically speaking, all other things being equal, what would take precedence; your black husband or your black nationalism? (if it came down to it)
love of your black husband or loyalty to black nationalism so to speak
Teacia {June 25th, 2008 at 12:15 pm}
loving her black husband IS loving her black nationalism…they are one in the same.
don giovanni {June 24th, 2008 at 4:52 pm}
@ genius ~ well put!!!
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kamakula {June 24th, 2008 at 4:16 pm}
I think this illustrates best the differences in our ways of thinking.
You see Douglass’ relationship with a white woman as being disloyal. I see it as “why should there be an issue?”. Interracial relationships should not be issues at all. If I truly believe in equality of mankind, then I should be free to pursue relationships with anyone I want without a need to hold myself back out of some obligation to my background.
Going back the to the example of Douglass, wouldn’t his marrying a white woman be a slap in the face of the racism and attitudes of his time? Wouldn’t his marriage be just as powerful a statement?
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 4:23 pm}
No, it would be a slap in the face to the Black women who were fighting beside him, who had been raped, killed and hung by his wives people. In my opinion, that is.
To me, his intermarrage is just proof of Paolo Frere’s “Pedagogy of the Oppressed” which states that the nature of the oppressed is not to end all oppression, but to imitate the oppressor and to want what he has. A lot of Black man (conciously and subconcuously) use their realtionships as a misguided way to assert their ‘manhood’, their right to what the White man has.
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 5:03 pm}
just because a particular psychosis exist doesn’t mean everyone in a particular group has it.
kamakula {June 24th, 2008 at 7:56 pm}
Hmm, so then because black people have treated me, my friends, my family, or my ancestors badly, I should avoid them from now on?
Perhaps I should start making lists of the racial backgrounds of people who wronged me or people I know so I know who to avoid?
At that rate, I’d quickly be alone by visiting the sins of someone’s father upon the children. It is one thing for me to avoid association with a particular individual who is known to manifest prejudice, it’s quite another to regard someone whose behavior and outlook is totally different with the same accord.
AroundHarlem.com {June 25th, 2008 at 12:27 am}
” “Pedagogy of the Oppressed” which states that the nature of the oppressed is not to end all oppression, but to imitate the oppressor and to want what he has.
A lot of Black man (conciously and subconcuously) use their realtionships as a misguided way to assert their ‘manhood’, their right to what the White man has. ”
Interesting. I agree with these thoughts.
I know people who feel this way.
The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 4:21 pm}
actually, freddy douglas was married to a black woman for over thirty years, and had children with her. he was widowed, and later on met and married a white woman.
context is very important.
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 5:00 pm}
well true i didn’t remember exactly how it went but he was married to both black and white. context was important. i guess it helps in this case for some to know that he was married long time and had children with a black woman and only married a white woman after he was widowed.
my point was that his being married to a white woman doesn’t make him any less black or any less a black freedom fighter or his complaints against racism any less valid as a black man married to a white woman.
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Nicely said… You made some valid points that many people over look. I trip over white women all the time..and there is one cooking in my kitchen right now..lol
@ Teacia Thanks for sending me this link. I enjoyed it.. and you’re right, He said it much better than I was able to explain it.
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Good post! As for the first part, I would much rather remain a woman whether I’m white/asian/hispanic/indian than keep my race. I love my race, but I love being a woman more.
As for dating other races, I have no problem with it. Love is love and can’t be identified by race, culture, etc. Most of the men that I’ve dated in the past were black and I love black men but I’ve also dated men who were British, Latino, and other races. I love men and will date a man who will treat me right and love me for who I am….. The only thing that I have a problem is when people date exclusively outside of their race and stereotype black women to be this, white women to be that, etc.
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 12:37 pm}
“The only thing that I have a problem is when people date exclusively outside of their race and stereotype black women to be this, white women to be that, etc.”
this is an important distinction. theres nothing wrong with dating outside of your race, but theres nothing right with exclusively doing that.
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 12:52 pm}
it may be far better in this case to be of no affiliation than to be bitter of any.
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ForReal {June 24th, 2008 at 4:16 pm}
True that. I look at anyone that dates eclsuively outside of their race askance. There is something up there when you can’t find ANYONE in your own race that you are attractd to, ever.
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I cant contribute much to the black part of interracial dating.. but yeah, i commented on their asian/interracial dating in general post. I’m too aggressive for asians. White guys never fail to bring up my asianness in bed, and as Ive mentioned, Ive had 2 white men lose erections in bed because I fought back instead of cowering in sexual submission. I give every race a chance, but its almost like they have to try harder.
And its true, men will go for sexy before they go for race. though i still wonder what everyone’s fetish for asian women are.
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 12:03 pm}
Oh, you’re Asian. Even worse. I don’t have an obligation to explain my racial loyalties to you. Something you Asian women seem to have no need for, apparently.
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Jess {June 24th, 2008 at 12:15 pm}
“Sister Toldja {June 24, 2008 at 12:03 pm}
Oh, you’re Asian. Even worse. I don’t have an obligation to explain my racial loyalties to you. Something you Asian women seem to have no need for, apparently.”
Wow. You really just said that. “Even worse,” huh?
You just discredited everything you said for yourself. I don’t see how that was necessary. Sweety… you’re a racist. lol. I can’t take seriously the woes and perils of racism coming from the mouth of a racist.
No obligation to answer me, solely because of my race. Good game. You’re the man now, dog.
Champ, I love you. But I can’t be here. I’m not going to disrespect your place by adding to this bullshit. You know where to get at me.
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 1:57 pm}
All I was trying to say is I cannot explain to you why I am loyal to my race and I shouldn’t have to.
I’m out too, cause I’m not gonna let brothers throw my Black ass under the bus in front of company. Somethings are best discussed between brothers and sisters, with no friends present.
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Liz {June 24th, 2008 at 4:52 pm}
Don’t be a stranger, and don’t take one voice as speaking for everyone.
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 12:55 pm}
Jess said: “White guys never fail to bring up my asianness in bed, and as Ive mentioned, Ive had 2 white men lose erections in bed because I fought back instead of cowering in sexual submission.”
look who likes to fight. ok miss assertive.
“i aint scared of you mf’ers.” Bernie Mac
you say: “And its true, men will go for sexy before they go for race.”
if they don’t, they probably want to.
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Also, this might be a bit of a touchy topic but, is it true that black men get most slack from black women when they date outside the race? A couple of my friends have said that whenever they happen to become attracted to someone white, its not society that gives them the bulk of the pressure, nor their own male peers. They also say that it’s the black women who are quickest to call them gay for the smallest things.
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 12:08 pm}
“A touchy topic”? LOL. Worried about boundaries now? You know, I would never THINK to log on to “IntelligentWhiteBoys.Com” or “GeniusJewGuys.Com” or “AstuteAsians.net” and start asking questions. But Black folks space is one that EVERYONE seems to have no problem stepping in to. Why is that? I know that VSB was not designed for Blacks only, but it surprises me that so many non-Black women would feel so comfortable jumping in. Must be nice to be able to do that. Not something Black folks can do often. I shouldn’t be surpised, becuase it sounds like you all are mostly Black peen chasers.
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Suga&Spice {June 24th, 2008 at 12:13 pm}
Girl have you had your coffee yet?
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Liz {June 24th, 2008 at 4:55 pm}
ROFL. Suga gets a gold star.
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kamakula {June 24th, 2008 at 12:39 pm}
I’m not sure. I certainly give no thought to logging onto blogs of feminists, female college students, artists, business consultants, etc, despite being none of those things. (I also comment on those blogs if I so desire). I guess I’ve never been one to allow my actions to be inhibited by who I am. Perhaps some of those people felt no need.
I suppose if there was a sign somewhere that said “black people only” . . . but part of being an open online forum is the expectation that you will be read and have interaction from people beyond your (intended/expected/whatever) audience.
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 1:05 pm}
yep i go where i please masssuh. don’t think twice about it. i was watching Tyra Banks (for about 30seconds) last night until they started talking about the importance of organizing your make-up. WTF! i read essence an other girly magazines to see what women are reading and thinking. i am a liberal but like to watch fox news to see what the other side is thinking. logged on to stuff white people like yesterday and read many decidedly white publications.
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 12:51 pm}
sister t, you’re getting out of pocket. seriously
people, wait, FRIENDS such as jess (who i’ve nicknamed “toke” as in “token asian visitor”) and cheryl (who’s caucasian) have been fans and regulars of panama and I for years, regardless of whatever url we happen to be writing under.
lil sis, i like having you around. although your naivety shines through, i do think you’re intelligent and insightful, albeit a bit confused and extremely angry, and you seem like a generally good person. nontheless, i cant have you throwing out baseless and racist insults like that, especially when they were unprovoked. i don’t expect things to always be all kumbaya in this bitch, but as adults i expect everyone to treat each other with respect. if thats too much too ask of you, then, well, you know what to do.
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tiffany {June 24th, 2008 at 12:59 pm}
*swooning* … champ, you just turned me on with that one.
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 2:10 pm}
I apologize for not being more graceful with my words to anyone who I may have offended. You all are of course free to date whomever you wish, as I am free to be against it. But don’t confuse my disagreeance with naivete. I am a Black militant and proud.
And when I accused Kamakula and Jess of being either sheltered Blacks, it’s because of their seeming unfamiliarity with the concept of Black Nationalism. Again, not all Blacks agree, but most have heard of it.
As a peace offering, I will totally comb any one of you ladies mixed children’s hair and make product recomendations, lol.
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Jess {June 24th, 2008 at 3:01 pm}
No, you did it because we questioned your black nationalism. The concept is very present, and it’s something we’ve both been privy to before. None of your other comments were necessary. They were downright racist, extremely condescending, and completely unfounded. Wait, I think the word I’m looking for is “wrong.”
I know I promised champ — who, might I add, I know and respect outside of this website — that I wouldnt come back and start shit, but I’m really disappointed in you. I respected you once, as a writer and philosopher, and not because I was chasing your dick. I’m good now, though.
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 3:42 pm}
Jess said: “Also, this might be a bit of a touchy topic but, is it true that black men get most slack from black women when they date outside the race? A couple of my friends have said that whenever they happen to become attracted to someone white, its not society that gives them the bulk of the pressure, nor their own male peers. They also say that it’s the black women who are quickest to call them gay for the smallest things.”
Jess are you saying that black women seem to be very judgemental about everything and everyone surrounding interracial relationships? …and carry themselves with a holier than thou attitude?
Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 3:51 pm}
How you gonna tell ME what I was doing? AS I SAID, you didn’t present your question as someone who had any base understanding of Black nationalism. And if you know what the concept is, why do you feel the need to challenge it? Who do you think you are? And then when I come back and challenge your opinions, I am a racist. Classic.
Frankly, I could give a fuck if you like or support me as a writer or thinker. But I would never, ever feel it was my place to go and challenge an Asian person’s right to have Asian pride and Asian loyalty, if they were doing that in a way that didn’t hurt or disrespect others. I made a case that Black people need to stick together and some woman of some unknown other race felt it was her place to tell me that she didn’t think the Black family needed to saved. That is damn disrespectful. We will NEVER come to any sort of understanding and agreement as human beings if we cannot respect the rights of indvidual cultures and sub cultures to self-govern and to have certain things for themselves.
I’m the one who is accused of being elitist, and yet you have put yourself on the pedestal to judge me as a “racist” and to tell me that my beliefs are unfounded and wrong. You tell me, what sort of classes have you taken, what books have you read, what people have you surrounded yourself with so you can have some sort of understanding about Black people? People of other races tend to confuse having homies or lovers of the Black race with having some deep cultural perspective or understanding of who my people are. That, my friend, is elitist and absurd and “wrong”. How dare you challenge my right as a Black woman to have an opinion about what Black people should do? Who do you think you are, really? And even if you had a PhD in Afro-Studies, you still couldn’t tell me what MY people should do, cause its not your place to do so.
Yes, I did throw it out there that I think it’s off, to say the least, that Asian women are leaving their men by the droves. I would have never offered that if you didn’t feel it was your place to tell me that I am wrong in my proposed solution for what MY people should do.
You can date who you want, you can go out in the world happy that you can go tell your Black boyfriends about all the ignorant, evil Black women who hate on you for noooo reason, and love is love and race is a social contruct and blah blah blah. But you can’t tell me that I am wrong when I am addressing some shit that has nothing to do with you. You are not my concern, beyond the feminist in me who is offended when you are fetishized by non-Asian men. Black men, women and children are my primary concern. And I will continue to live, love, write and fight in a way that I feel best serves MY people.
Jess {June 24th, 2008 at 4:17 pm}
Jess are you saying that black women seem to be very judgemental about everything and everyone surrounding interracial relationships? …and carry themselves with a holier than thou attitude?
Genius: Am I personally saying that? Nope. I’m asking if the accusations made by my friends who date in and out of their race have any basis, and if other people have encountered that same reaction from their black female peers. Obviously the black women I hang out with don’t share that mentality, because they don’t see me as a stain on their community. I ask to know.
kamakula {June 24th, 2008 at 4:43 pm}
Just because I understand a concept doesn’t mean it will live challenge free. If I think there is a faulty or outdated basis for a set of ideas, I will challenge them.
I’m not going to argue with your possession of “cultural perspective” but I don’t agree that someone not of the culture can’t have it. For that to be true, that calls into question our own abilities to gain cultural perspectives of our own culture or suggests that we are born or somehow inherit memories of a cultural perspective that persist and are manifest without someone teaching it to us.
If we all had our ways, nobody could tell us what to do with our people. Nobody would have the authority to tell us how to raise children, how to wash clothes, how to improve our communities, because there is no way “they” could know and understand our particular dilemma.
The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 4:41 pm}
sister t, i think you’re missing the point.
if even i dont agree with much of the stuff you write, i think its great that you’re so dogmatic and passionate about black nationalism, and i will respectfully listen to (most) other points of view, regardless of how liberal or conservative they might be.
my issue has to do with the condesending and somewhat nasty insults, and pointing this out is definitely not “throwing you under the bus”.
what you’re not realizing is that each baseless insult chips away a bit of your credibility, and when someone makes a complete descent from “somewhat militant yet insightful” to “asshole”, they lose it all.
for your own good, more people will listen and support your message if you change your delivery.
i mean, whats your goal here? to educate the masses and uplift the people or to piss off and degrade everyone who doesn’t share your beliefs and demographic?
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 5:01 pm}
I have been accused of making baseless insults, told I “know nothing”, called a racist and a bigot, described as immature, compared to Jim Crow-law writing White racists, someone said my words were “bullshit”…because I dare to have an opnion that is radical and makes people uncomfortable. I may have been a little extra today, but I do not think my “elitism” was in any shape, form of fashion unmatched by Jess’s or the other commentors. In fact, I feel that she was no less self-righteous or condescending than I. This is some classic American shit for that arse. A Black woman gets loud and upset and she is evil, angry, racist, bully, self-righteous. Let an woman of another race take the same tone in the same space….no beef here.
I’m not trying to educate the masses today, nor am I trying to degrade or piss of anyone. I am simply asserting my POV. And I feel that I have been disrespected numerous times today. And thats fine, I don’t need someone to santize or put on kid gloves when discussing race. I can dish it and I can take it. But I am disgusted at how my words have been twisted, annoyed at the insistence of some to act as though I am not entitled to feel that way that I do and the willingness of some of you to label me with these titles. I had some titles come in my mind today too, but I didn’t feel it was appropriate for me to use them. And while White/Asian/whatever women and men may feel free to speak on Black nationalism, I am free to say that I find their opinions to be null, void, useless, irrelevant, ignorant, laughable, disrespectful, etc. when it comes to that topic.
I didn’t make any baseless insults today, friends, but I recieved a few. Stop being so emotional and self-righteous.
This isn’t nothing new, just another day in the life of one of the world’s mules.
genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 5:11 pm}
“Sense shines with a double luster when it is set in humility. An able yet humble man is a jewel worth a kingdom.” William Penn
genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 5:16 pm}
not saying who or what is truth or who or what is not but:
“Nothing does reason more right, than the coolness of those that offer it: For Truth often suffers more by the heat of its defenders, than from the arguments of its opposers.” William Penn
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 3:00 pm}
CHAAAAAAAAAAMP….te quiero!
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Hostess {June 24th, 2008 at 5:18 pm}
Toldja, didn’t I write last week that Black women can’t be passionate lest we get labeled ‘Angry Black B*tch’ and the likes?? Didn’t I say that whenever Blacks want to speak about Black pride, upliftment and the such they are labeled racists and the likes?? I’m starting to think you don’t read me daily
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 6:19 pm}
I read it, I just didn’t heed your sagacious words. You are like the level headed angel on my shoulder, who I am too foolhardy to listen to. I think I should retire to my porch and grab some lemonade and fan myself like a proper lady should.
genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 12:58 pm}
are you saying black women are very judgemental about everything and everyone? …and carry themselves with a holier than thou attitude?
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Did you mean slack or flack?
I can imagine that it’s true that black women give black men the most grief about dating outside of their race. I think a lot of black women see that dating/mating choice as less of a random selection and more “deliberate and blatant attack on all that I am.”
As for the gay thing….I personally think homophobia is particularly fierce in the black community, so…
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 12:53 pm}
“I think a lot of black women see that dating/mating choice as less of a random selection and more “deliberate and blatant attack on all that I am.””
in your opinion, why does this happen?
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tiffany {June 24th, 2008 at 1:09 pm}
conditioning. i have heard very few black men who date outside of their race explain why they do so without slamming black women first.
in fact, i’ve only met one black dude who said “if i could meet a black girl who was into what i’m into, i’d date her in a heartbeat.” (he was into some crazy rock/afropunk type of stuff.)
the rest express some variation of the following:
* black women want thugs
* black women are too ghetto
* black women are gold diggers
* black women all have kids
* black women are fat/ugly/otherwise unattractive
* black women aren’t freaky enough
* black women are too loud and mouthy
* black women are too aggressive
* black women aren’t cultured
* black women are too demanding
* black women aren’t submissive
* there aren’t enough educated black women out there.
… and so on.
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Dorian G. {June 24th, 2008 at 1:59 pm}
But as a black man how is this any different than what y’all say about us all the time…
Black men are all locked up…
There are no good black men out there…
Black men are on the DL…
Black men all want other races/women…
Black men aren’t chivalrous…
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Precious Rubenstein {June 24th, 2008 at 2:26 pm}
I guess the difference would be that these hateful men are more likely to use those ideas as support for dating outside of their race?
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Dorian G. {June 24th, 2008 at 3:03 pm}
First off what is the % of black men who only or primarily date outside their race? Please come back with numbers cuz i’m sure its very small. Secondly black women say this shit all the time, including my own girlfriend’s friends (of course the ones who don’t have men). Of every guy I’ve ever met, in my circle and out, if they are dating a white woman or asian woman, his number one, two, three, four, and five reason is because that woman is fine! In fact if you ask me why i’m dating my very dark beautiful girlfriend, I’m not gonna lie and say its because she’s a strong black woman blah blah blah, i’m gonna keep it 100 with you and tell you its because she is fine as baby hair. Stop it black women, y’all insecurities are showing.
Precious Rubenstein {June 24th, 2008 at 3:10 pm}
I don’t really understand your point, Dorian.
Are you saying that very few black men date outside their race, and the ones who do solely do it because the woman is fine?
Maybe I do understand your point, I just don’t agree.
tiffany {June 24th, 2008 at 4:24 pm}
“The Champ broke it down for you in the post yet we’re still here talking about black men who date outside their race because of disdain for black women. I just asked for facts to back what I feel like is a baseless claim. Men are men.”
i can pull my blog comment archives if you need to see examples of this. i can even point to some articles for you. i can forward you an email i received from a dude who said just that. we didn’t pull this out of our asses man. we heard wesley.
i’ll explain it one last time, using clear language. i hope this time you will get it:
1. some black men use stereotypes to justify dating inter-racially.
2. these men tend to be a little more vocal and visible (perhaps even more prevalent) than other black men who date inter-racially.
3. when you see a black man with a non-black woman, you don’t know if he is one of those men.
4. the shade-throwing broads assume that he is and are bothered by that.
5. we’re not talking about *all* black men.
6. we *are* talking about black men who stereotype and denigrate black women.
The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 4:43 pm}
“But since you are dating women based on ‘fine’ as opposed to ’spirituality’, ‘intellect’ and ‘character’….yeah, not so sure what to say about that.”
hmmm, sister t…didn’t you mention a week or so ago that you’d date a stripper, because (paraphrasing) “fine men were hard to find”?
tiffany {June 24th, 2008 at 2:50 pm}
precious gets a gold star
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 3:34 pm}
Is it insecurity, Dorian? Or is it the pain that comes from realizing that you have been loyal to a group of men which contains a number of fellas who will go out of their way to remind you that we don’t matter to you? Or is it for us having the nerve to believe in solidarity?
Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 3:36 pm}
And while it is a small percentage of men who date put, that was the topic today so we discussed the men who fall in to that group. But since you are dating women based on ‘fine’ as opposed to ’spirituality’, ‘intellect’ and ‘character’….yeah, not so sure what to say about that.
Dorian G. {June 24th, 2008 at 3:48 pm}
Thats funny because I thought the topic of today’s post was that men are men are men the world over. The Champ broke it down for you in the post yet we’re still here talking about black men who date outside their race because of disdain for black women. I just asked for facts to back what I feel like is a baseless claim. Men are men. We are attracted to women who are fine, black/white/asian/latin/indian whatever. And yes when i first met my girlfriend and soon to be fiance I’m sorry to say I didn’t notice the big character sign flashing on her forehead, and somehow I also disregarded how big her intellect looked. I’m glad you can somehow see all these things from a distance.
Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 2:54 pm}
While we do have to stop making these generalizations, have you notuced that the women who say this will still date Black men? We get mad, but we don’t usually give up. And there ARE less of u all to go around. And any Black man who says there arent enough educated Black women is just in denial.
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Dorian G. {June 24th, 2008 at 3:07 pm}
I love this straw man argument.
Step 1. Come in with a baseless generalization (there are very few eligible black men)
Step 2. When confronted with a logical response, counter with another generalization (well black women don’t give up, while black men just all go date outside the race)
Step 3. Use another baseless fact to build upon your original baseless generalization, this gives the appeareance that your original statement is true (there are more “eligible” black women than black men, anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong)
Step 4. Profit
Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 3:32 pm}
1) Did I say few or did I say less to choose from?
2) Did I ever say that ALL Black men date non lack women?
3) More Black women attend college than Black men. That is a fact. There are more Black women than Black men. Fact. When did I use the words “eligible”, “all” or “few”? Oh wait, I didn’t. You heard what you wanted to hear.
Dorian G. {June 24th, 2008 at 3:41 pm}
Sister Toldja:
1. Less to choose from than what exactly? Please expound on this point, there are less black men to choose from than…
2. No you said “the women who say this (generalizations about black men) will still date black men. We get mad but we usually don’t give up” by saying this statement the direct implication is that black men who say the same (generalizations about black women) do give up and date primarily outside the race. Correct?
3. And what is your point? More WOMEN attend and graduate college then men PERIOD. This doesn’t seem to deter or hinder any other race of women. And the funny thing is its not like the percentages are that far off. I could see if it was like 5 women to every 1 man or something. Really my advice is stop making excuses and do better.
Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 4:10 pm}
1) More Black women than men, period.
2) That doesn’t assume that they all do or that they date ‘out’ primarily, but that more Black men use those arguements to justify why they don’t date us than Black women doing the same
3. You can’t compare us to other races of people and expect to be taken seriously. What other race in this country has had our exact experiences? NONE. Someone mentioned Irish slaves earlier. That is absurd.
Believe it or not Dorian, there ARE Black men who are fierecely loyal to Black women. Even the ones who aren’t “fine”. Sadly, that doesn’t change the facts:
Fact- there is a disproportonate number of Black men who will be/were/are incarcerated: http://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/usa/Rcedrg00-01.htm
Fact- Black women are more likely than Black men to attend and complete college (though grad rates are low for both groups):http://www.jbhe.com/features/50_blackstudent_gradrates.html
Fact-Black men are almost 3 times as likely to marry a non Black than Black women are :http://www.isteve.com/2003_census_interracial_marriage_gender_gap.htm
Fact- Black female adults outnumber Black male adults by almost two million: http://realcostofprisons.org/blog/archives/2005/05/where_have_all.html
GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 3:36 pm}
as a male advocate….it really upsets me to hear this kind of man-slamming…I have a son, and I don’t want him to be surrounded with such negative speech from people that look just like him..that’s so Black, maybe…
I try to uplift, compliment, and support men in general, Black men specifically, at any opportunity…ont is a romantic way..but in a show of support for how much unappreciation there is for the men that ARE handling their biz…(my innate conditioning to be supportive that was broguht forth in previous comments)…when I see light…I acknowledge it…regardless!
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Precious Rubenstein {June 24th, 2008 at 3:52 pm}
Interesting…I rarely see men take a stand against “women-slamming.” At least the kind we were talking about above. Makes you wonder sometimes who’s got your back.
Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 3:54 pm}
Who is slamming Black men? As an advocate of Black men, i try to help the be better, but not pretend like shit is a-ok.
GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 4:51 pm}
that last comment was pointed toward what Dorian G. was saying Black women typically say about Black me…I hear it…and I shut it down er’time…that’s all I’m saying…
Dorian G. {June 24th, 2008 at 5:02 pm}
Thank you Goodeness, because if I ever hear stuff about black women, from any man white/black or other I shut it down. FOH with that shit my momma is a black woman.
Dorian G. {June 24th, 2008 at 3:32 pm}
Thank you for being honest Precious
“I just don’t agree”
However what don’t you agree with. The part about very few black men date primarily outside their race or the part that the ones that do are pretty much because they find that partner attractive?
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Precious Rubenstein {June 24th, 2008 at 3:43 pm}
I don’t doubt that there are men who date outside of their race because they find the woman to be attractive. So perhaps we agree there.
I DO believe, however, that there are some black men who make this choice in the context of hatred. So here might be where we disagree.
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Dorian G. {June 24th, 2008 at 3:54 pm}
Oh we agree here as well. I’m sure there are some black men who primarily date out of hatred or disdain for black women. But there are also Italian men (at my job especially) who refuse to date “these lazy fake guido broads”. Also lived with a Japanese kid in college who thought that japanese women were stupid and refused to date them. And of course one of my good friends is Indian and married a black woman because “those indian girls my parents tried to put me on to were straight huff”. What I’m saying is that this goes on all around the world. Please don’t think its a “black guy” thing.
Cyn {June 24th, 2008 at 4:26 pm}
My best friend is Indian and only dates brothas. We’ve argued many times cause she would say Indian men aren’t attractive to her. I can’t fathom how anybody can think their “own” isn’t attractive.
genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 3:52 pm}
Tiff, yes both stereotypes exist: “black men aint shit” and black women aint shit” when it comes to relationships. …and these 2 stereotypes are used to describe all of the things you and Dorian G. listed individually or configured in any combination conceiveable and then some.
Q: is it true?
A: partially, in some cases, maybe even a lot, defenitely too many. and there are still plenty of cases where this does not apply.
…and still none of it justifies bigotry.
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AroundHarlem.com {June 25th, 2008 at 12:43 am}
For your punk friend —> http://afropunk.com/
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Precious Rubenstein {June 24th, 2008 at 1:22 pm}
Why do black women take interracial dating as a personal attack…lawd, that’s a really good and loaded question.
1- Sometimes, it IS a personal attack. Some black men have some straight up hostility/hatred towards black women. “They’re fat! They’re loud! They’re ghetto! They’re angry! They don’t know how to treat a man! etc”
2- I believe black women have so few places in which we are truly affirmed. I don’t think it’s a unique phenomenon to look outside yourself for validation, but the startling dearth of that kind of sentiment for black women might make us hyper aware, hyper critical, and hyper angry.
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Im the only one out of my circle of friends to never have done anything with a woman outside of my race. Like I know that white women like black men, but for some reason I always assume they’re all on some, “get away from me colored boy” stuff. The one time I couldve got on a white girl was randomly at a university. She got really drunk, and my instincts took over, and I quickly realized that being alone in a dorm room with a drunken white girl in suburban Detroit was probably not a good move. Everytime I think im past all that, something happens, like most recently the Kobe situation, and then the guard is back up.
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 4:46 pm}
“Everytime I think im past all that, something happens, like most recently the Kobe situation, and then the guard is back up.”
this makes alot of sense, actually
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Wouldn’t it be great if there was a real VSB.com BBQ?!
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Suga&Spice {June 24th, 2008 at 11:51 am}
I’d have no problem being in charge of paper plates and condiments.
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 12:54 pm}
I will bring the fishatarian/vegetarian friendly food options…and organize the soul train line!
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Miss Patterson {June 25th, 2008 at 3:22 am}
we should also push for the rhinestone baby tees (or should they be white tank tops?). anyway, i liked that idea.
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Fly... {June 24th, 2008 at 12:11 pm}
I’d attend. I’d love to see the t-shirts you guys show up in.
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 12:53 pm}
I was thinking the same thing…after reading the beef that Toldja was dishing out…I felt like I really was at a GOODEN event…
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 12:54 pm}
*pending*
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WuDaMan {June 24th, 2008 at 3:23 pm}
I think that would be a great idea. Although I am going to bring my dietician. She will be there to curse Goodness and The Champ for telling me about putting gravy on sheppards pie. I bet that is like America’s answer to Canada’s pootin. mmmm n butter pecan ice
btw Champ I think you should sell more than just the t-shirts you should get them stripper poles and black man hats and vsb boxers (something ashy larry would be proud to sport)lol
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Miss Patterson {June 25th, 2008 at 3:21 am}
i’ll make my semi-famous baked macaroni & cheese! AND banana pudding! tell me when…
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i hope no one tripped over me today.
its me in the kitchen baking the cake The Champ. It’s called Better Than Sex. *insert flirty-wink*
*goes to read the comments*
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 1:03 pm}
(GASP) giiiiiirl…whodathunkit! you a WG? for real?? daaaang homie…I would LOVE to be a fly on the wall of youe mind reading this here blog today…
“better than sex” cake? no way! I need me some of that!
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Suga&Spice {June 24th, 2008 at 1:09 pm}
Cheryl, I honestly would like to know your thoughts on today’s topic/exchange.
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Cheryl {June 24th, 2008 at 1:26 pm}
lmao yes I’m of the caucasian persuasion.
I do not get involved in racial discussions on any forum. i do read them, tho. I feel it helps me learn of issues from a perspective I will never experience. And who couldn’t use more perspective in their life?
I don’t engage in the discussions because I have learned (from other’s involvement) that who really needs an opinion on race from a white person? Generally it isn’t desired and I can understand it and respect it.
But since you asked, I’m a little floored at some things that were said here today. Not the what, but the how.
Oh, and the cake? While I don’t think its better than good sex … it certainly runs neck and neck with mediocre sex
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 2:57 pm}
Cheryl, I respect what you just said so much and I am sorry that someone with such a….I dunno…enlightened, mature, respectful approach had to be subject to me on the attack.
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Hostess {June 24th, 2008 at 4:18 pm}
I turn my back for a few hours and it all breaks loose! Dang y’all.
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 3:38 pm}
***slow clap***…CHERYL…you friggin ROCK!
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AroundHarlem.com {June 25th, 2008 at 12:52 am}
Hey Cheryl, this statement gets props from me too.
April
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“i date black women exclusively because, to me, black women are the bangingest women”
CHURCH!!!! (hmm, I think I want churches chicken for lunch now)
AMEN!!!
I love black women, stank attitudes, hot combs, bad perms, pink moisturizer, cocoa butter (or shea) & all!
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Precious Rubenstein {June 24th, 2008 at 12:03 pm}
“I love black women, stank attitudes, hot combs, bad perms, pink moisturizer, cocoa butter (or shea) & all!”
…
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Fly... {June 24th, 2008 at 12:12 pm}
omg
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 1:05 pm}
WOW! aren’t we just a sweet talking Cassanova today… geesh! lmao
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 1:10 pm}
black women are my favorite as well Tallgent but i don’t discriminate. i’m an equal oppurtunity lover.
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Now that I’m an adult, I often wonder why so many black women get bent out of shape about black men dating white women. I’m a black woman who prefers black men, so I understand that statistically, finding my ideal mate might be difficult. But if a man doesn’t want you, he doesn’t want you. It’s obviously not your fate to be with him so why stress it?
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The Champ {June 24th, 2008 at 12:57 pm}
“But if a man doesn’t want you, he doesn’t want you.”
and just because he’s not with you (and happens to be with a white woman) doesnt mean that he’s not attracted to you or other black women
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2Degreez {June 24th, 2008 at 1:09 pm}
So true. I know plenty of black men who date white women (I’m from Pittsburgh, it’s unavoidable. lol.) but they’d gladly be with me or any other attractive black woman with a friendly disposition if the timing’s right (meaning not currently in a relationship).
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 1:26 pm}
EXACTLY!! IF he wasn’t with her, doesn’t mean he would be with you…dammit! if you feel that way…you’d be forever salty at every woman that’s not you…
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Okay, my thoughts…
Once upon a time, I was a little Black girl who was attracted to white boys almost exclusively. It was probably because those were the boys I encountered most growing up, the boys who I hung out with, the ones who treated me like I was their equal (or were in awe of me LOL). Most of the black boys didn’t like me…I “talked like a white girl”, was “shaped like a white girl”, didn’t fall all over them, etc. so forth. So imagine my surprise when my first boyfriend was a gorgeous chocolate brother. After that, I wasn’t too attracted to the white boys anymore…
But now, in my early 30s, I realize that men…are just men. I no longer roll my eyes HARD when I see a brother with an other. Let an attractive, accomplished man of ANY race step to me now…he’ll a chance to show me if he’s worthy.
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As much as I love being black there is something so inherently feminine about me that I don’t think I could give up. Ain’t no use being a black man if I’m going to be a girly soft black man. While I do feel like black women carry the weight of the world on their shoulders, but at the same time it just seems so hard to be a black man. There are so many stereotypes and pressures heaped upon you from the very beginning,
I think for sure I would cave under that type of pressure. I would love to be a man to experience what he feels like when he is being pleasured but other than that, I’ll stick to being a lady.
Secondly, I only date brothas cause that is what attractive to me. There is something SO.DAMN.SEXY about a black man that is not carried over in men of other races in my opinion. On occasion I’ve seen a cute white boy or hispanic boy but none has ever made my panties wet on sight.
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 4:09 pm}
Cyn says: “On occasion I’ve seen a cute white boy or hispanic boy but none has ever made my panties wet on sight.”
Cyn this makes me very glad to be a man and particularly appreciative of being a black man in this context. just because i find women attractive in all races doesn’t mean i don’t love the blackness of your ass. (not just the ass but you feel me) stay wett!
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Cyn {June 24th, 2008 at 4:25 pm}
And that is your choice. Most of the men in my family date outside of their race. My dad’s last 2 wives have been white. It doesn’t bother me in the least. I don’t take it personally.
I do take offense to people who gave the same standard crappy reasons for why they date others, like “black women have too much attitude.” Generally if you are dumb enough to use that as a reason, I don’t want you regardless.
I say do what makes you happy. Life is too short to worry about what the next man is doing.
And my sexy chocolate man keeps very wett!
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tiffany {June 24th, 2008 at 4:54 pm}
“I do take offense to people who gave the same standard crappy reasons for why they date others, like “black women have too much attitude.” Generally if you are dumb enough to use that as a reason, I don’t want you regardless.”
bingo. and cosign.
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I love all men. I don’t discriminate. I went to a predominantly white boarding school, so I believe my entire family still expect me to marry outside my race. I can’t say with certainty that I won’t.
I think the argument about loyalty has it’s validity on some levels, yet I don’t think I would be willing to sacrifice personal happiness to prove how loyal I am to anyone. That’s no reason to marry or not marry someone you love, IMO.
I don’t know what the HELL happened today but if Jess is trying to dip out, I have to speak up. She does NOT represent all black women Jess. I love your commentary, always have. I understand you needing to take a break (brief!?) but I hope you stick around and offer your perspective, humor, and honesty. I fall a lil bit more in love with your personality every time you post *muah*
I can’t imagine not having my homie Panama in MY life, so I am glad his parents procreated, LOL. I think that Panama and Obama are reason enough to have more beige babies.
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Suga&Spice {June 24th, 2008 at 1:54 pm}
Diva, that is funny. My mother was damn near a Black Panther so the fact that I am seeing white guys now baffles everyone. But hey he is a big country white boy for Idaho so he gets the same thing sometimes. lol
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Cheryl {June 24th, 2008 at 1:54 pm}
“I can’t imagine not having my homie Panama in MY life, so I am glad his parents procreated, LOL. I think that Panama and Obama are reason enough to have more beige babies.”
awww!
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b133/vasbestbbw/MagsNEric.jpg
(my donations … my son age 9 and my daughter age 3 … when they loved each other)
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Wise Diva {June 24th, 2008 at 2:03 pm}
awww! adorable donations you got there *giggle*
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Cheryl {June 24th, 2008 at 3:05 pm}
Danke!
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Suga&Spice {June 24th, 2008 at 2:10 pm}
beautiful..however you are not allowed to post anymore pics…I may inadvertently catch baby fever and I dont have the cure for that yet
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Cheryl {June 24th, 2008 at 3:03 pm}
**keeps my babies to myself**
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Leila {June 24th, 2008 at 3:00 pm}
They’re so cute!!!
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Cheryl {June 24th, 2008 at 3:04 pm}
Thankie!
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 3:41 pm}
look at the little luvins…too precious…ADORABLE…but I have to agree w/ Suga on the whole “baby fever” thang…I have one…and I am trying to keep it that way… LOL…cute babies make cute women, want to have cute babies!
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Cheryl {June 24th, 2008 at 3:55 pm}
thanks
heres my fave pic of my son:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b133/vasbestbbw/asd020.jpg
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 4:55 pm}
what I tell you about that! I LOVE PIS OF CUT KIDS…hit me on gmail…we can have a cute-kid-athon…LOL…and Thursday, my son (4 yrs old) is doing an open mic…there will be footage on the blog fa-sho!!! he get it from his mama!!! lol
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Cheryl {June 25th, 2008 at 9:22 am}
iheartnerdstoo@gmail.com
OMG (said without the becky) your son is too adorable!
*reads blog*
Miss Patterson {June 25th, 2008 at 3:28 am}
awwwwwwww…they’re precious!!! just beautiful! Cheryl, that just warmed my heart, thanks for sharing.
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Jess {June 24th, 2008 at 3:10 pm}
I truly appreciate that. Thank you.
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 4:13 pm}
i declare june beige history month and Barak O’Panama our honorary beige people for today. salute!
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 4:56 pm}
you are too cute to me…lol.. Barack O’Panama…
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I’ve long since abandoned the whole Black Man Dates Whitey conversation. I couldn’t care less about Black men who date white women since 9 times out of 9 I know I wouldn’t be attracted to a Black man who gets down with Mr Charlie’s daughters. However this notion of loyalty really grinds my Black militant gears. We are in no position as a race to decide that we don’t owe it to ourselves to be loyal to the race. I know I sound like a member of the klan but this sense of “I don’t owe you anything” (I know that’s not what you said explicitly) is the a part of the reason Black men and women can’t seem to sustain good relationships. Bear in mind this is coming from someone with fairly traditional views on dating, marriage, and family. I say all of this while taking into consideration the inherent gender differences that affect how men and women date. I want to go on but I know this isn’t a “race” blog. There’s so much to be said about how Black men and the world in general views Black women (either in an overly sexualized context or not at all). I guess I just wish that Black men were as zealous about loving and dating and fawning over Black women as we are toward them! Also, I am aware of the sweeping generalizations being made in this comment…no need to point them out.
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Sister Toldja {June 24th, 2008 at 2:59 pm}
Amen Ms. McGee.
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Treezy F. Baby {June 24th, 2008 at 7:15 pm}
I agree…I think the PRIMARY reason why black women consider men of other races is because it seems like black men have “betrayed” us. That loyalty over love thing is a mofo but I’m with everyone else…I’m not gonna sit up waiting for my black husband to put down the crack pipe, finish his time in the pen, terminate his contract playing for the “pink” team, quit getting called up to the Maury Povich show for paternity tests, stop dating white women long enough to check for me…if the love I want from a black man can be found in a man of another race…I’m all over it. No one likes to feel like the ugly step-sister…but it is card black women have been dealt for most all of her history in this country…I’m not gonna keep crying over spilled chocolate milk for forever.
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I’m from a mixed marriage..my dad is Irish…my mother Afro-Latino (Belizean). But I do consider myself a black woman. With that said, I was never the one to buy into the whole “Black Love” notion. I can’t say that I deal in exclusivity when it comes to just dating black men. I always loved the Skittles slogan, “Taste The Rainbow”.
Now from moving from the NYC area to the DC area, I did notice that I’m approached more so by black men, which is fine with me….BUT…I can always pinpoint the white men with their fetish issues and antebellum dreams.
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1. I will most definitely stay a woman
2. “I’d hate for you to spend a good portion of that time sacrificing your own happiness for some romanticized technicolor loyalty.
do. you. ”
Indeed.
The thing about stepping out is that you have to have somewhat of an open mind and a heaping of self assurance. There are so many neg. things said about and to the people that actually date outside the race…
Then there are some cases where some people put down their own race to justify dating outside of the race. I mean everything that Tiffany listed and more. To me this is a serious sign of insecurity.
…I guess to some black women, to see a black man with a woman of another race makes her feel cheated on, not including the fact that we hear so many neg. things about us as a group. … I know that is how I felt until I realized that even if he wasn’t dating outside the race doesn’t mean that he will be with me. Why hate? It was pointless and ignorant. A lot of healing and “self reflection” had to be done in order to change that mind set.
I have no hard feelings toward any interracial couples (of any combination)… I started sympathizing when I became fully aware of the ridicule they go through. Who knows, it could be me in that position one day.
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Monnie {June 24th, 2008 at 2:57 pm}
wow. read the recent comments and it sounds like I’m biting…
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genius khan {June 24th, 2008 at 4:16 pm}
my last girlfriend was Turkish and black folks and white folks was hating ahrd as hell. i can’t begin to tell you.
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Monnie {June 24th, 2008 at 4:37 pm}
My uncle use to dating a Korean woman and when we use to go out as a family the hate was just blatant…
I try to give the “smile of encouragement” when I see happy couples of all kinds. I like to see people happy but it seems as if everybody want people to be miserable (just like they are).
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GOODENess {June 24th, 2008 at 4:57 pm}
*usher board meeting*
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I don’t know if this was brought up already, but men (of all races) are typically the one who seeks the woman not the other way around. I do recall a post on here about women being to open about going after men vs letting them come to you, So with that said do you know many white men thats going to actually be comfortable approaching a woman of color? without feeling like HE may be the one to be rejected?? ponder that??
also when I look at black men dating white women (in my community) all I see are scrubby men with no jobs and cheaters remember that song I don’t want no scrub by TLC?? It still remains today, a scrub is a scrub all hours of the day and if a scrub can get away with murder so to speak with a white women then she can have him!!
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kamakula {June 24th, 2008 at 7:10 pm}
. . . now I see. It’s not that there are no “decent black men” around, it’s just that as soon as you’re seen romantically with someone who is not black, you’re written off as a scrub.
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Mikki {June 24th, 2008 at 8:54 pm}
No I don’t write any man off as a scrub I just call em like I see them. You can peg a scrub from a mile away he doesn’t need to be anywhere around a woman for you to figure that out.
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There are too many comments for me to read. But uh, dudes keep saying how they date FINE no matter the race. But uh, what about when it comes to marriage. Do you marry for fine?? BTW, y’all know all women don’t all age the same. I’ll leave it at that so as not to offend.
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Dorian G. {June 24th, 2008 at 4:57 pm}
LOL all the women in my family on that “black don’t crack” like its a motto to live by or something.
But to answer your question, I can’ t call it because I’m not married. I can definitely see myself marrying my current SO who is black because we share the same goals, spiritual outlook, moral values, and she likes all my favorite teams and makes me pancakes. Now could I also find that in a white girl and want to marry one? I guess. However like the tootsie pop owl says “The world may never know”.
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kamakula {June 24th, 2008 at 7:03 pm}
Of course not. You make a move on the people you’re attracted to but you only stay in relationships when there is more than looks to keep you together.
Or were you being sarcastic?
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I haven’t read all the other entries but I disagree. I would pick being a female over being black. Does this mean I think like a man? LOL. js
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lol nah Elenda he just had us pegged wrong!!!!!
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eh, i have always dated based on common interest, mutual attraction, and proximity.
as it so happens, most of the time the ones who share my interests, are attracted to me, and who are kind of close by tend to also be of color, and usually black.
not to say i wouldn’t date outside of my race. but the opportunity really hasn’t presented itself since i left the northeast, and didn’t present itself too much before then.
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Love should be colorblind.
However I will say this, I have seen quite a few Black nen with White women who are not what most would consider “FINE” so it does make some sisters wonder—why are they with the woman? If she was cute or so called “fine” then we could see that…but a lot of times the white woman is fat and look okay in the face (maybe).
I’ve posed the question to a few male friends who do date white women and unfortunately they aren’t for the reasons some seem to give on the board–sadly, it’s because they feel they can control the woman and also because the woman freely gives them things (money, clothes, free room & board, etc).
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I don’t have much to add except this thread was hot fire today! Mad props to Sister T (who said a lot of what has ran thru my head at times) and the other Tiffany. Good points made by all.
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I have to say for Champ not wanting to have a whole racial discussion it sur turned out to be one. I merly wanted to comment on what Mikki said: “So with that said do you know many white men thats going to actually be comfortable approaching a woman of color? without feeling like HE may be the one to be rejected?? ponder that??”
I totally agree with you. I am one of those women who some how make men feel intimidated to apporach me. for what ever reason men of all colors are but I have found black would approach me quicker than a white man. It may all have to do with history!
Food for thought
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Hey VSB, I’m new to your site. Just wanted to say it’s very good and keep up the great writing!
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