I’m not going to give Beyonce too much credit here, but ever since Destiny’s Child informed the world that they were Independent Women, it’s become a rallying cry.
You go to the club and the DJ yells for all of the independent women to throw their hands up. Personally, I miss the “rub your breastsstssts” demands, but hey, times have changed. Nowadays, women make it a point to let you they own everything from the roota to the toota. And that’s all well and good, but I wonder if all of this independence hasn’t come at a cost.
The relationship paradigm has been thrown out of whack for years now. At one point, men were expected to do man sh*t: put food on the table, fix the cars, and be the main decision maker in the household. Thing is, women still expect that stuff today (to some degree) except they make sure to let you know that they don’t NEED you to do it for them because they are more than able to do it all. That last one is probably the most interesting to me.
Nearly every household that I’m aware of, the men probably make more money but I’m almost sure that the women/mothers are the ones making all of the money decisions, save the crap like riding lawn mowers and powerized blow up dolls with the kung-fu grip major appliances. I know in my household that I never asked my dad for anything because he’d only tell me to go ask my mother for money anyway. Now of course, most of these women allow their men to be men outside of the household, which only means keep up appearances of the standard patriarchal household.
But I digress.
Independent women. As the typical roles of men and women get tossed out the window like a Britney Spears newborn or a Lauren London career I have to wonder what expectations women maintain for the household nowadays? I assume that most people are probably still very traditional in their approaches but let’s be real, in a world where Black women are starting to outpace their partners in the earning potential category it’s a lot more likely today that the woman could figuratively be the “head of the household”. But does that mean that the man’s role is diminished to former women-centric roles like wearing aprons and ironing C-cups and B.A.D.s??
It used to be that one of the main goals of the woman was to be married and become a mother, probably before 30. I don’t know about your neck of the woods but it seems like more and more women are getting dusty waiting longer to have kids and focusing more on establishing careers. Now this could be because the better women can read the less men there are out there for them (as evidenced by the myriad articles about Black women foregoing the typical family structure and adopting as a single mother), or maybe all the attractive women have men already leaving nothing but busted heffas to fight for the guys who really dont’ want to settle down anyway.
I kid. I kid.
I suppose women’s goals are still the same but I’m guessing that perhaps, the expectations of the gender roles isn’t the same as it used to be. Me no know. I assume that most if not all of the VSS’s here will be the type of woman to be as successful, if not moreso than their partners and husbands. So as women become more and more independent and Black women become largely more successful than us Black men (we’re still all trying to graduate)…
….ladies, how have your expectations of the men in your changed from the prior generations, if at all? And to the brothas out there, does there seem to be a change in the expectations of women from what most of us learned early on?
Court is now in session.
-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka TANGLE JIG P aka GIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRL, HE A 3
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{ 542 comments… read them below or add one }
In the Black world, look no further than so many of the guys ending up dead or locked up before establishing their careers…plus so many sons were spoiled as opposed to taught real responsibility. Why wouldn’t our women turn right around and say they “don’t need no man?”
For all communities overall, it’s due to women picking careers that aren’t as volatile based on the economy (e.g. furloughs are less likely to occur, customer base won’t dry up as quickly, not as prone to obsolescence).
@Stuff Ghetto People Like,
plus so many sons were spoiled as opposed to taught real responsibility. Why wouldn’t our women turn right around and say they “don’t need no man?”
this is a great point. but even more so then not being taught “real responsibility” (whatever that may mean to different ppl), there are soooooo many women who let their men continue to be spoiled and don’t hold them accountable for ANYTHING. i mean, if you wanted to be treated as King of your household, you need to act accordingly. i hate to say it (ok, no i dont) but Steve Harvey made this same point in his book. and i’m sure most if not all the VSSs dont need to be told, but their are sooooo many women out there who need to know it’s ok to demand that their men NOT be lazy, no good, trifling, can’t-do-for-himself brothas.
@Gem of the Ocean, you actually read Steve Harvey’s book??
@Panama Jackson,
lol, gemmie has at least 25,000 books in her apartment. i’d be more surprised to hear about a book she hasn’t read
@The Champ,
LOL and moving those daggone books was a real PAIN. i haven’t unpacked nan one of em either. my apt is essentially bookless.
@Panama Jackson,
yes, i read it. my pnc (a VVSS–very very smart sista) wanted to know if i found the book as useless as she did. so i read it. while i didn’t learn anything my own daddy and older brothers taught me growing up, i think the book is EXTREMELY useful for not so smart sistas (NSSS if you will). i know plenty of sistas in pgh alone who are lost and confused about relationships and found this book to be very helpful and eye opening.
whether you think SH is credible enough a source or not, he def has helped put things in perspective for many women.
@Gem of the Ocean, I do have to agree that, we as women, need to hold our men accountable and “demand” that they hold up their end of the bargin in a relationship. However, I also feel that there is a such thing as being “too independent”. It is ok to admit we need men in our lives, because we do. I personally enjoy hearing about how things were in the 50′s….where women were women & men were men, and we knew the difference. I’m all for being successful, I’m a single (divorced) mother of 2 and proudly make it happen on my own. At the same time however, I would love to be able to cater to a black man & do all the girlie things (cook/clean/be a lady in the streets & freak for him at home), & I have no problem working; but it’s too hard now-a-days to find a good man who appreciates that…..and I personally blame the women’s liberation movement for part of that.
@Stuff Ghetto People Like,
Re: Spoiled as opposed to being taught responsibility…One of my BIGGEST bones of contention. I can’tliedon’twannaandain’tgonna try to raise a grown @zz man. If you’re 30 ish and can’t make a move without mama nem’s approval, you betta run a check. I always say they’ve gotta get off mama’s teat before they can latch onto mine.
Ladies, Please Stop Nursing Grown Men!!! It’s a vicious, endless cycle. Once you’re through with em, they’re gonna look for the next nanny. Trust, it won’t be me…
@bittersweet’s baby,
lmao @ I always say they’ve gotta get off mama’s teat before they can latch onto mine.
indeed!!!! i’m always one to stay “step away from the teat”
@bittersweet’s baby, RE: stop nursing grown ass mean……AMEN TO THAT! Let a man be a man & stand up on his own two feet! That will only help his ego and make him a better man!
@Stuff Ghetto People Like,
For all communities overall, it’s due to women picking careers that aren’t as volatile based on the economy (e.g. furloughs are less likely to occur, customer base won’t dry up as quickly, not as prone to obsolescence).
i’m surprised noone has said anything about this yet. i read a couple weeks ago how the recession is disproportionately affecting men because of the types of industries where you’re seeing lay-offs.
i wonder what effect that’s having on relationships.
@The Champ, trust, from what’s expected in American society, the men that ain’t bringin’ home the bacon for themselves or others are hanging their heads in shame like never before. Any man worth his salt wants to make real paper and feel capable to do big things. No one wants to be that loser.
@Everyone,
I would like to contest that this spoiling of black men by black women derives from the lingering female complex to understand and discern that her man is under attack by the very country that he inhabits. Black women do not want their men to be consumed by the very land and conditions which they inherit.
It’s the ‘baby’ complex meaning that women call their men baby because they want to nurse and nurture black men from the corrupt constraints of this world, this being black mothers and mates whom have found success( this is also why you repulse at us black men also). You already know the playing field is unfair this is why you don’t allow them to play or play with them at all. This attitude is adverse to the relationship beween black men and women. This is why the phrase ‘crib’ was so prevalent, because you’ve accepted to love and to f/ck babies your ‘babies’(black men). Babies live in cribs
@The Hallway, I take it you’ve boned up on Frances Cress-Welsing?
@Stuff Ghetto People Like, i’m such the anti-Frances Cress-Welsing scholar. i used to be a conspiracy theorist until I read her books and decided I couldn’t be that nuts and just became sexxy.
@Panama Jackson, yeah, I can’t fox with too many conspiracies (those I notice the “I don’t watch TV” crowd are ironically fascinated with)….takes away optimism to change the culture. And you’re giving your power away too when you subscribe to too much of that crap so readily.
@Stuff Ghetto People Like,
Yes this is true
I want to preface my comment with saying I saw had lunch with my mother and father yesterday so yes he is around.
My preferences haven’t changed much from past generations, however I am willing to sit down at the table, open my portfolio and show you what I have to offer. I might speak other languages, do a lil something on the piano and still be able to burn in the kitchen, but I wanna work while doing it-to have my own money.
All in all I agree with the above comment…with regards to the fact that women choose more in demand careers.
Beyond that…I would say that deep down inside we don’t really want things to change. We want to be soft and pink and feel protected, warm and loved but we also want to be respected (and that’s something that wasn’t so around 50 years ago, but that’s another topic for another day)
@Jac, “We want to be soft and pink and feel protected, warm and loved but we also want to be respected…” Say that! And we need to be able to respect a cat, otherwise he will never help us be comfortable enough to feel those things.
@bittersweet’s baby, @Jac,
Please women on behalf of this singular brotha… do not baby us men. Sure we complain about you (hopefully to our boyz who go through the same thang with their lady) but we do respect you for it.
A welcome mat is only good for walkin all over.
@Stank-0,
I’m with you. I always ask my girls that are able to succesfully run their men how they can respect him.* They can’t. And it just ain’t sexy to be anyone’s lapdog…
*Note- these types ALWAYS seems to intrigue and pull men. That’s another topic, tho…
@bittersweet’s baby,
If you do not respect him, why are you even wasting time with him? Do you hope that the respect will come later? In my view it must already be there.
Bond.
@BlkBond,
No, I won’t be anywhere that respect doesn’t also dwell. My point is that to be the woman I am within a relationship, who doesn’t wish to try to take on both gender roles… I must find a man whom I can respect and thereby have confidence in his ability to give me cover from the storms.
@bittersweet’s baby,
You don’t know this until the storm hits though.
I hear these sentiments from alot of women, but the disappointment registers once the times get tough. Usually, these are the guys that most guys already know are ‘b*tch arse men’, but because they make a decent salary, decent looking, charming, etc. women do not know or overlook these things.
Bond.
@BlkBond,
Deep, heavy sigh… Soooo shallow women are the only kind you’ve been exposed to, huh? Nothing in life is absolute and you won’t know anything for sure until you go thru. But you should’ve gathered enough intel by the time they come to know that you’ll get by together. But I’m an idealist n shii…
And I’m too tired to link this to your last comment but that’s what my reply’s about.
I think most guys fear the woman who makes more money because of the attitude that she brings to the table, thinking that making more money gives her more power…. and that a lot of women are good for attempting to play that card and/or throw Andrew Golota’s favorite punch repeatedly.
That’s not cool with most men, and never will be. The worst thing you can do to a black man next to actually emasculating him is emasculate him with your words.
Me personally, if my woman does such a thing, I’ll just put her ass on trash duty for the next six months or so. NO woman likes taking out the trash, especially when a man is around that can do it.
@thismayconcernyou,
In my experience, a real man who is secure with himself is not bothered if their woman makes more money than him. They are still the MAN in the relationship.
You’re absolutely right about women emasculating men or doing it with their words. They deserve a brash reality check (or sentenced to sleeping with their pay stubs for while).
@Monk,
In my experience, a real man who is secure with himself is not bothered if their woman makes more money than him. They are still the MAN in the relationship.
i dont know if this has to do with security though. i mean, for many of us, “manhood” is defined by power and status, and, like it or not, money is one of the main ways of figuring placement on the status hierarchy.
point being, i can see how a man could feel a certain way if his woman is “out manning” him. i guess it depends on how you define manhood
@The Champ,
See, there’s the divide. Men measure their manhood against power, status, and finances. Many women are not using that same scale. This is what causes the pre-judging. Sure, you have to provide for your family, but will you take care of her heart? That’s why a chick can be up in the law firm by day but can’t wait to get home to her man who’s a mechanic that night… As long as he’s primarily giving her what she needs emotionally, the rest is bound to fall into place.
@thismayconcernyou, Me personally, if my woman does such a thing, I’ll just put her ass on trash duty for the next six months or so. NO woman likes taking out the trash, especially when a man is around that can do it.
i’d actually like to see you try that one. lol.
@Panama Jackson,
dam *takin notes* i gotta try tha shii hell yea.
or tell a chick ta cut the grass, go under the house in tha crawlspace put fire to the pilot light
@BLUNTBLAZER,
When I lived with my mama (who is single), I cut the grass and still do it for her sometimes even though I’ve moved out. I live in a communal building so the grass is cut for me (plus!), but if I lived in a house with a man, of COURSE he would be the one doing it.
You want us let you feel like a man, well, nothing much is more manly than cutting the grass and sweating shirtless.
@Cheekie,
my dad is the breadwinner and my mom only works when she feels she needs more money to get her hair and nails done lol (like a part-time, part-time job). but she used to always cut the grass and take care of the maintenance around the house. cuz she likes to do ish like that. my dad would do it if he HAD to, but since my mom preferred those off end manual labor type things, she does it (well, DID it, she got a bad hip and back now. so she pays some one to handle those things)
I’m pretty independent and love my career but I keep work at work and make sure that I’m supportive and show my man that he’s needed and appreciated. I want a man who is respectful, has a good heart, and is honest. If he’s successful, it’s a definite plus, but I’ve had ex’s in the past who were very successful but thought spending money on me replaced being there. It’s really about balance, everyone wants to feel wanted or otherwise, they’ll stray over to someone else who makes them feel important.
@Leila,
you, girlfriend have earned the golden ticket.
i will explain in my comment.
or maybe not. its going to be a rough day on the plantation. hopefully i’ll have time
@BlackBerry Molasses, perhaps you shouldn’t go keeping people in suspense ONLY to not even be able to address it later.
*sticking tongue out*
@Panama Jackson, sticking tongues out is 55% gay.
The other 45% are Michael Jordan and Gene Simmons.
@Leila,
Correct. I honestly believe this is what most women want, but either they do not articulate it very well or the pride that comes along with money, status, etc. prevent them from saying it all together.
Bond
I don’t think my expectations have changed at all, in the sense that I can appreciate a man that can be the head of the family, take charge, etc. If anything the fact that I’m so independent has made it more appealing. I need a man that’s able to step up and be that partner, cuz doing it all by myself isn’t all that its cracked up to be. Now finding that man is a whole other issue…
@apresmoi,
Now finding that man is a whole other issue…
please expound and sh*t
@The Champ,
maybe its because of my age, (I’m 22). But I’ve just been meeting a lot of dudes that are more content to take the back seat in relationships and have me call the shots, which at times can be exhausting.
I think that we´ve stopped depending on men because many have become less dependable….
A whole RACK of black men are in jail.
I have a college degree and want a man with the same (not a requirement, but it´d be nice). Women far outnumber men in terms of college grads.
Guys my age that haven´t killed anyone (25-35) act like they live in a music video and have an std or 5 kids already or are so spoiled by their Vineyard moms and dads that I can´t even look him straight in the face.
Add to that the fact that a lot of people are still more color struck than they´d like to admit (regardless of socio-economic whatevers), and there you have it – the reason why I´d rather just get my credit score tight than try to balance lady in the streets freak in the sheets relationship dynamics.
Also, I know my worth. I. AM. BAD. ok? Like, physically and mentally (seriously I´m a slightly less hot cross between Arlenis Sosa and Claudia Lozano with a big brain and a big heart). However, for some reason, I haven´t found Mr. right yet. So, in the meantime, I´d rather focus on my career than keep searching, and in the process I might just become a better and more financially stable woman. If that means I am 35 before I find someone…so be it.
For these reasons, I refuse to settle for the first guy that offers to buy me an apple martini (and also because I don´t like bitch drinks).
Now I´m off to go murder this insect in my room all by my goddamn self.
@GabbyTime,
“Also, I know my worth. I. AM. BAD. ok? ”
Are you trying to convince us or yourself?
@Dorian G.,
mmmph…sseeeeee…i’m glad you said what i was thinking
@Dorian G.,
Um, If you´ve read this blog at all you have noticed the sardonic tone that Panama uses when he refers to his own sexiness? Yea, I was basically alluding to that. Clearly my attempt at tongue-in-cheek was lost on you and Smiley.
@GabbyTime,
So I forgot to take my sarcastic vitamin this morning? Damn my bad, carry on
@GabbyTime,
Yeah, Panama is one SEXXY 3. Whoo. *fans self*
@Cheekie, i cant tell if you’re being funny or not.
so i’ll assume you’re just aware of the truth that is my sexxiness and had to pull out the MLK funeral home fan to get some cooldown going on.
@Panama Jackson,
Um, half funny; half truthness.
@GabbyTime, i actually couldnt tell you were being sarcastic either…
then again, we all know i’m the sexxiest 3 to ever grace the earth.
wu tang is the greatest.
@Panama Jackson, wu tang is the greatest.
wu tang and their cult following, i saw a dude with a big ass wu tatoo, i mean dang!
@GabbyTime,
My bad…my bad
@GabbyTime,
“However, for some reason, I haven´t found Mr. right yet.”
hmmm, i wonder why
wait…
“Also, I know my worth. I. AM. BAD. ok? Like, physically and mentally (seriously I´m a slightly less hot cross between Arlenis Sosa and Claudia Lozano with a big brain and a big heart).”
…nevermind, lol.
@The Champ,
Oh stop it. If being conceited was the only thing that kept women from finding Mr. right, there´d be WAY MORE single women around. Hell, every bitch in New York is the shit in her own mind!
And all that aside nonsense….is a bit of sardonic hair (er, weave) flipping lost on all of you? I guess my deadpan doesn´t come through the computer well.
**correction**when I said panama I meant the champ
@GabbyTime,
“And all that aside nonsense….is a bit of sardonic hair (er, weave) flipping lost on all of you? I guess my deadpan doesn´t come through the computer well.”
lol, we jab and counter jab here, so expect any comment to get picked on and picked apart like a sales rack at tj maxx a week before school starts.
basically, its the vsb way of saying “hello” and “hello deez”
@The Champ,
*dying* @ hello deez.
@GabbyTime, seems to me like it might take you until you’re 35 b/c you assume the worst about all the prospects while assuming that you’re above the fray. basically, you have your sh*t together but the men your age don’t.
so my point here is, you may not settle now, so you’ll settle when you’re 35. it aint like the problems you assume those men have evaporate b/c they get older.
@Panama Jackson,
What I said was that I´m working on ME, and my credit score and bladiblah. It might take me some time to get MY shit together, so I´m really only above the fray in the sense that I´m very aware of my flaws and instead of wallowing about searching for Mr. Right in a sea of undesireables, I´m working 16-hour days, and traveling to do studies, and seeking a financial advisor.
That way, if and when Mr. Right does find me, my life won´t be the trainwreck that it isat the present moment. A guy that special deserves someone with their shit truly together, right?
@Panama Jackson,
I am a daily reader, but non-commenter! But Panama, this statement right here was TRUTH.COM all day! Thanks for that ah-ha moment! = )
@TheLady, you’re welcome…and welcome and sh*t.
@Panama Jackson,
SAY IT!
VSB: Where don’t nobody get away wit isht!
And I think there’s something to be said for building/growing with a partner. I suspect that folks who talk about “I need to build Rome and make a million dollars before I focus on love” are really saying “I’m so lonely and I’m losing hope. Wake me up when it’s over
”
A good man/woman will love as you work toward your goals, they’re not just sitting on the sidelines waiting for you to hit lotto before they holler. We call those types “shallow”
@Me fail english?, the runaway slave,
e-twin you’re back!!!
“And I think there’s something to be said for building/growing with a partner….A good man/woman will love as you work toward your goals, they’re not just sitting on the sidelines waiting for you to hit lotto before they holler. ”
Co-sign…But I do appreciate those who desire to fix their credit forst, or at least the bad habits that earned them poor credit ratings… I can’t be marrying a financial mismanager.
@Me fail english?, the runaway slave,
“A good man/woman will love as you work toward your goals, they’re not just sitting on the sidelines waiting for you to hit lotto before they holler. We call those types “shallow””
Ament!
@Me fail english?, the runaway slave, WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL MY LIFE?! had me starting an e-1800 the Lost hotline, lol. hayy girl! lmao @ “VSB: Where don’t nobody get away wit isht!: its the truth. you must be willing to footnote your ish upon request.
btw, co-sign on your comment.
@shri fry rye, its me overit, i forgot to switch out e-alter egos, lol.
specia pho yoo anyways!
@shri fry rye,
LOL! Hey mama. We must do drinks again! Only this time I shall join the freestyle cipher
@GabbyTime,
I have a college degree and want a man with the same (not a requirement, but it´d be nice). Women far outnumber men in terms of college grads.
There are plenty of men and women out there successful and smart who don’t have degree the first. Increasingly rare but they still exist. I think folks are really becoming snobs with the expectation of degrees when that isn’t even a guarantee of the person’s capability and merit beyond bangin’ out X amount of years at a certain school.
@Stuff Ghetto People Like,
not a requirement, would be nice.
@GabbyTime, I know, it’s noted, but my point still stands as a general statement.
@Stuff Ghetto People Like,
Ok, this is mad late and you probably won´t even get a glimpse of this but eff it.
I went through four years of college. And what I went through to march through the arch with my robes and whatever on was more than just bangin out years.
It was a test of my ability to balance finances, increase my intellect, read voraciously, get drunk yet still get to class, overcome stereotypes, protest, bullshit, go against the grain, smoke weed and still get to class, eat fried chicken and not get fat, have discreet sex with a man who is not my boyfriend, not get pregnant, not get an std, do community service, cuss people out, act, phtograph, persuade teachers, go to foam parties and have allergic reactions to said foam, and walk to class in a do rag.
I understand college educations can be things of snobbery, but if you can do all of that shit it four years (thus making yourself a fuller person) without college then you´re definitely worth my time. I´m just saying, college is what it took for me to become a little bit more badass and I think if done correctly it can achieve the same results for many a human being….not all, but many.
Plus these individual success stories of fortune sans college are nice, but they also trick mediocre muthafucks into thinking they are Kanye West (who said, and I quote: “I dont know no books.” Waaah?). Schoolin ain´t a bad thing. period.
I want a well educated man and that doesn´t make me a snob. But if one comes along with no degree but makes me heart thump and keeps my… brain.. stimulated…let´s do it!
@Stuff Ghetto People Like,
Say that again!
@Stuff Ghetto People Like,
**Diva Dust ™ for YOU**
yes, I’m aware you are a dude. I don’t care. Bask in it.
@BlackBerry Molasses,
bask in deez
@The Champ,
no thank you. Aif told me they smell like feet wrapped in leathery burnt bacon **dry heaves**
@Stuff Ghetto People Like,
I sell franchises for a living… I know a guy personally, who has a 7th grade education, who bills about $$320,000.00 a month in business….on a bad month, he probably deposits about 40k into his personal bank account…. would it matter if he had a college education? He often tells me how when he meets women, who have no clue what so ever how wealthy he is, that all he has is a middle school education… he does that to weed them out! lol!
@GabbyTime,
If you resemble either Arlenis or Claudia, you should be good.
@BlkBond,
You googled? Loves it.
@GabbyTime,
I know who Arlenis was, but I was intrigued to see who Claudia was. I am a fan of beauty: Sessillee Lopez, Jordan Richardson, Emanuella de Paula, Chanel Iman, etc.
You mentioned color/pigmentation bias, where are you located?
I am a Southern guy, and where I am from, women who are ‘light skinned’ are a dime a dozen. I can recall at least 2 ‘Beyonce’ dopplegangers growing up, thus, I don’t place a huge emphasis on skin tone.
It would be a shame if you are that bad, just sitting there solo. SMH
Bond.
>Does there seem to be a change in the expectations of women from what most of us learned early on?
Real talk, it’s so much easier to deal with a chick that makes less than you. Power comes through dependence. If the man can’t let his money do the talking, the time and effort the man puts in has to increase to maintain stability.
When she makes close to what you make, what you make, or more, the sense of entitlement grows. Because I make X, I deserve Y type thinking.
On some other board, which I won’t mention, a sista has been dating a traditional African. (prolly Naija, you know how them dudes be pulling chicks). He of course got her on that cook and clean and worship your king routine. That’s his culture, and she was with it. She was already doing more of the breadwinning, but not by leaps and bounds.
But quiet as kept, she got her a little lawyer degree, and she’s prolly going to make beau coup dollas now. And because of that fact, and despite her love for ol boy, the cash and status made her think that she should change up the dynamic she had with him. She want to put the shoe on the other foot. I have a feeling she thought there was an imbalance long ago, but even there I think it was subconsciously related to the fact that she made more $.
Now, personally, I think if you’re in a relationship you have a partner not an employee, and I wouldn’t be expecting my woman to cook and clean. (real talk, them heffas neva be happy with a man’s effort in those regards and often take it upon themselves to do a “good” job, and get mad when you making the wings YOUR way, not some wacka$$ Ina Garten way..I won’t even speak on my partners who have children and disputes arise in terms of childcare….but I digress…)
But this change in her perspective on who should do what chores in the relationship is not about just being fair, it’s about her making considerably more money.
So now ol boy gotta learn to do X,Y, and Z not because they reached a better understanding between them, but solely because she now feels entitled to tell him what to do.
It ain’t the first time i’ve seen it, and luckily i’ve never experienced a chick getting outta pocket cause her #’s done went up – but this is not a new phenomenon.
There are only 2 ways for the financially challenged man to deal with this, really 1 way
- make more money
or
- recognize what it is that she gets out of the relationship.
And I don’t mean that love, trust, honor, or all that jazz. But what are the deep psychological unconscious needs you fulfill when you deal with her.
@WestIndianArchie,
*When she makes close to what you make, what you make, or more, the sense of entitlement grows. Because I make X, I deserve Y type thinking.
*real talk, them heffas neva be happy with a man’s effort in those regards and often take it upon themselves to do a “good” job, and get mad when you making the wings YOUR way
* because she now feels entitled to tell him what to do.
There are only 2 ways for the financially challenged man to deal with this,really 1 way- make more money or recognize what it is that she gets out of the relationship.CHANGE YOUR SELECTION PROCESS
@bittersweet’s baby,
You don’t know @ the outset what your woman is gonna get outta pocket with.
Same thing on the otherside. Chick’s not gonna know what her man is going to be unreasonable about, or more importantly what good treatment is finna end when he gets comfortable.
There’s no early indicator for every kind of crazy.
@WestIndianArchie,
There’s no early indicator for every kind of crazy.
soo t-shirt worthy.
@WestIndianArchie,
You won’t know exactly what could happen…but you’ll get an inkling. If you revamp your selection process, you can weed out a lot of the inferior shii. But too many people (men and women alike) disregard what’s plain to see up front. If a chick is flip when you approach her, it’s probably already ingrained in her. If a dude is lazy when you first cross paths, he probably ain’t gonna change his modus operandi just cuz you hit him off with some @zz… Again, be more diligent during your selection process and you’ll yield better quality results.
@bittersweet’s baby,
I agree with it being a matter of selection. If my partner had a sudden boost of self-esteem/entitlement whatever I think I’d sense something was amiss way ahead of the horse&carriage. If you’re looking for indicators of crazy in the way of ppl straight up telling you, yeah, you’re in for a long ride. But I can’t think of any major personality flaws that doesn’t come with huge red flags…
…in this case, a highly accomplished woman willing to play the backseat for the sake of her rel’ship, despite not having grown up in a culture/family that prepared her for that. Yeah, there may be a little resistance at some point.
I think our views and goals have changed because now women have to focus on taking care of themselves.
There was a time when men courted a woman at a young age, married her, she had babies and he took care of them all.
Now, men are playing the field, deciding to marry a woman late in the game, having babies and leaving them to be taken care of the woman, etc… so now the woman must step up and take on more responsbility in the home.
In my own life, I want to be successful and make just as much money as my husband. I would love for him to be ABLE to (he doesn’t HAVE TO.. but I’d like the ability) pay the bills without any of my help because I don’t want us to have to worry about a thing financially.
If I happen to make more than him, that’s great too… I just want us to be able to survive individually, so we can have a surplus.
@Nicki Sunshine,
Now, men are playing the field, deciding to marry a woman late in the game, having babies and leaving them to be taken care of the woman, etc… so now the woman must step up and take on more responsbility in the home.
lol, so basically, its all our fault?
@The Champ, Nope, it’s nots yaws fault.. bc the women allow it.
@Nicki Sunshine,
Actually, you’re right. My response below was (sorta) tongue-in-cheek (I’m cheeky, I guess…), but in reality, the above is true.
@The Champ,
“lol, so basically, its all our fault?”
Yessir. That’s the default answer.
@Cheekie, LOL.. Can I borrow that? I’mma see if that works in real life!!!!!
@Nicki Sunshine,
LOL, with caution.
@Nicki Sunshine, Now, men are playing the field, deciding to marry a woman late in the game, having babies and leaving them to be taken care of the woman, etc… so now the woman must step up and take on more responsbility in the home.
i actually think that was always going on. the difference is that back in the day it was more accepted and nowadays women are more vocal about their displeasures. add the 24/7 news cycles and the changes in gender roles and it seems like men today have lost their minds when we’ve been rolling stones forever.
y’all just used to deal.
@Panama Jackson, I think you may have a point Panama.
@Nicki Sunshine, girl you know you love me.
@Panama Jackson, I do!
@Panama Jackson,
Point->Panama
@AngelicNastyness, why thank you.
@Panama Jackson,
true, and men who were players just got married early and still played the field. the best of both world and sh*t
@The Champ,
Co-sign and sh*t.
Bond.
@The Champ,
Yes I agree that (some) men have always been players. What they didn’t do was leave a woman (they’d married) high and dry to raise children alone and fend for herself.
In the days of old men and women though more about (and often married out of) obligations and duties. Sure they may have fooled around, but they were committed to taking care of home (usually.)
The stakes in a relationship are much higher today. I’ve seen women left with nothing after a divorce. They have to start all over again after more than 20 years of marriage. I think young women ARE more demanding when it comes to relationships. But I can’t really blame them. You’d have to be a fool not to try and protect yourself from a potentially negative situation should the relationship go sour.
@Ms. Hall,
“In the days of old men and women though more about (and often married out of) obligations and duties. Sure they may have fooled around, but they were committed to taking care of home (usually.)”
Exactly. I’m really at a loss as to how ppl keep saying the old roles were a myth and women are just reacting differently now. We have more unwed mothers, “illegitimate” children (hate this term) and unemployed/underemployed young men than ever before.
Things done changed [/Christopher Wallace]
I think that the bottom line is for partners to respect each other. Period. And to deal with each other with love and fairness. I’ve said on here before that I don’t particularly believe in hierarchies in relationships, because hierarchies are not about love, balance – or harmony. They are about power. And power and love don’t coexist well. There is always going to be a form of resentment or negativity in one way or another – and that seed of negativity can destroy a relationship. In the course of a relationship the balance of who makes more, or who is taking on what domestic chore may change – or may be relative to who does what better. Circumstances within families change. Mama may have to pick up a job on the side when it’s time to send the kids to school or something like that – or maybe a job loss, or whatever. I think in years past women made do with their role or the expectations of them because it’s how it was. History has proven though that there were many many women who were never fully fulfilled by being second class citizens. Hence the Women’s movement.
I think that men do choose partners that they feel superior to in a lot of cases (not all), but I think they do that because of the male ego. And history (Deepak Chopra says that history is written in our genes and that egos are where a lot of the human story translates, but I digress). I think it’s a bad idea to purposely choose a weak partner so that one feels better about themselves. When the shyt hits the fan he’ll regret it. Maybe when it’s during a time of crisis or something but eventually that weak partner will have to step up to the plate or become like dead weight that the man will start to resent.
I also think that black men and women have abandoned one another. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with interracial dating if that’s what you want to do or you have a genuine attraction to someone of another race. But it seems like Black men choose partners outside of the race because those women don’t come with the same baggage that Black women do, but Black women do it too. They get their degrees and think that they’ve arrived and turn their back on the brothas that haven’t gotten there too. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong… it just seems to be what is.
Anywho, most of the women I know just want to be respected. They aren’t necessarily out there trying to emasculate brothas – they just want their due respect. These are women who have degrees and good jobs, but also cook and clean (for the most part). Who are more than willing to let their men be men as long as those men are showing them love and respect. These are women who like to be sexy for their men, and feminine. But can be strong when necessary, and are whole people who have lives, opinions, and goals. Just like men do. I’ve also said on here before that men and women aren’t that different from one another – both want pretty similar things from each other — the hard part is finding that balance and getting thru all the bullshyt that a lot of black folks come with unfortunately.
@pgh muse, *nodding* especially that last paragraph.
@Smiley Face,
Respect is earned. Some come with too much entitlement but I digress…
@CPT Callamity, I agree. It’s definitely a struggle. But that’s where, IMO, love comes in. If u love someone and they have shown you that they love you in return then you ride with them. We are all human and make errors, and can get out of pocket at times- but commitment is a choice. You can throw a relationship away, or work on it and try to do better and be better.
@CPT Callamity, I agree…respect is to be earned, but sometimes you have to push your pride to the side to give respect; like pgh muse said, that’s where love comes in…not the hearts and candy kind of love either.
Also some folk need to let themselves be respected.
@Smiley Face,
Absolutely. Real recognizes real, and u have to give respect to get it.
@pgh muse,
I think it’s a bad idea to purposely choose a weak partner so that one feels better about themselves
you know, i actually think men and women do this equally. while some men may choose someone they can boss around and have control over, there are women who intentionally target morally-deficient men so that they’ll always feel superior spiritually and morally in their households.
i know thats besides the point, but i just had some toast and strawberry jelly so i feel a little smarter than usual
@The Champ,
Right, right…
@pgh muse, But it seems like Black men choose partners outside of the race because those women don’t come with the same baggage that Black women do, but Black women do it too.
i’ve always found this problematic. its more or less picking your poison. EVERY WOMAN comes with a set of problems. period. (and i know men do too). i’ve long heard the rumor that Black men date white women b/c of the lack of attitude, etc. and i’m just not sure how true that is. now the perception might be there that there are major differences but i think there are more man/woman differences than there are black woman/white woman differences.
@Panama Jackson,
You’re on a role today! One of the reasons the black man/white woman rel’ships never bothered me is cuz Im not under the impression that white woman are doormats. I’ve seen plenty of take-no-isht white chicks and more than my fair share of black women who are strong, independent and feisty…’til Ray-Ray or whoever comes home.
Never understood why ppl pretended they dont know any black women who put up with a ton of BS. Neck-rolling does not substitute for self-respect
@Me fail english?, the runaway slave, glad to have you back miss lady. you have been sorely missed.
VSB NYC Happy Hour!!! Coming in October…
@Panama Jackson,
I’m down!
And by then I’ll know the diff between “role” and “roll”…
@pgh muse,
Co-sign. I agree whole-heartedly with you. I do want to know how you (or other Black Women) are defining respect? You note that many want to feel loved (thus the attention, patience, understanding), but how do you not translate that love into respect already? I don’t think the love can exist without the respect, and if a man is in love with you, he more than likely already respects you. How are women not grasping this?
Bond.
@BlkBond,
I dont think there’s much issue of women feeling their man thinks that they are inferior or incapable in general. Respect, imo, becomes an issue, when I, as a grown woman, am treated like my input is on some asst coach status. I’ve earned my spot at the adult table and have had enough experience in ManWorld to be more of an asset to you than simply a sounding board. In fact, it might be some stuff that I know that you dont. And I’d love to teach you, but the fact that some men find self-assuredness and a willingness to assert myself to be a God-awful vestige of women’s lib rather than evidence of my WOMANhood smacks of the kind’ve reluctant tolerance (read: patronage/patronization??? one of them must be a word, yes?) I’ve grown to abhor.
This made sense in my head…
@Me fail english?, the runaway slave,
If you believe (or know) your advice or insight is the best for the situation, and he still does not agree, let him fail. THEN, offer your advice again. Most men are stubborn by nature, self-assured by nuture. My father always taught me to stick by my decisions (even when wrong) as a testament to character. Notice how tough we are on people who ‘flip-flop’?
If after this your man STILL won’t listen, you may have to leave that man. Men do have self-destructive tendencies. We would rather burn out, than fade away (word to the Rat Pack).
Bond.
@BlkBond,
co-sign
@BlkBond,
Yeah, I actually dont have this issue with my bf. He thinks Im smart and knows I trust him to make his own mistakes. Bigger than that, he knows I dont like “deep” talks enough that I wont offer unsolicited advice unless I’m VERY concerned for him. That said, Im guessing its easy for me now cuz we dont share assets, kids, debt, etc.
@Me fail english?, the runaway slave,
well we must share a brain cuz it made sense to me, ebff!!
@pgh muse,
“I think that the bottom line is for partners to respect each other. Period. And to deal with each other with love and fairness”
*Stands proudly* See why I love my ED
Mama’s well-educated w/ an advanced degree doing well in her professional field. Daddy’s known for doing…err, “other stuff”. But I can’t remember a time when I heard my parents talk about who runs what. I dunno what folks do about live-in arrangements and I can see where power struggles can ensue, but it’s ALL communal in a marriage. Not just for weird spiritual reasons but it’s also practical. For instance, my parents have had to hold each other down at some point in their marriage and the role of the breadwinner has switched back and forth. You could be talkin all that rah-rah “I put the bacon on the table!” BS to the dude who’s feeding you next week (see: These TET’S)
@Me fail english?, the runaway slave, BS to the dude who’s feeding you next week (see: These TET’S)
‘Zactly!
Heeeey! Good to see u over here. Missed u!
My expectations have never changed. I want my husband to be the head of the household, just like my daddy was. My fiance will definitely be the head and I will be submissive because of who he is. He respects me, he listens to me, he comes to me for advice and takes heed to it, he knows that I want the best for him and takes what I have to say seriously.
He knows that I may be better at things than he is so he defers to me in those areas but he will have the final decision because of all of these things. He doesn’t expect me to bow down, kow tow or be dumb, deaf, stupid or blind and let him run all over me…no, he expects me to still be me and knows I will say what I have to say when it needs to be said! I know that he wants whats best for us and he will never make a decision that will affect US without ME.
I am truly blessed to build a life TOGETHER with him. I think that because I had an example of a good marriage growing up and saw the man my daddy was I am able to let my fiance BE the/a man. A lot of the times I saw my dad make decisions for our family based on what my mother felt because he respected her and it was the best for us at the time; there were times that he made the final decision based on what he felt was best and my mother supported him because of the man he had shown himself to be by respecting her at all times. That doesn’t mean we were the Cleavers growing up…there were some heated arguments and nights spent on the couch because they wer ehuman.
My parents talked to us…when my older siblings were getting married they sat them down and counseled them. They’d rather you break off an engagement than to have you get a divorce.
Ok so I see I’ve written my autobiography but I said all of this to say I am self-sufficient, on par financially with my fiance and will probably make more once I finish this last degree (wwwooooosaaaahhh) but it’s not in me to not honor who he is and let him lead.
@Smiley Face,
Ok so I see I’ve written my autobiography but I said all of this to say I am self-sufficient, on par financially with my fiance and will probably make more once I finish this last degree (wwwooooosaaaahhh) but it’s not in me to not honor who he is and let him lead.
Let him lead? That’s funny.
@T. Troy Stewart,
m’kay…
@T. Troy Stewart, the truth is funny? i haven’t had my toast this morning yet but i’m not understanding the funny…you know what nevermind, lol.
@Smiley Face, you’re basically saying, I have all the power but because I don’t think my dyck doner can keep it up knowing this, I will allow him to think that he’s the kang of r&b
That’s funny.
@T. Troy Stewart,
wow um..no, you must not have had your breakfast either to not understand what I just said. where did i say i have all the power?
@T. Troy Stewart,
LOL…YA’LL ninjas are the ones asking us to “let a man be a man”, which is hilarious because I can’t LET you be a man, you have to BE one. Letting someone be a man is redundant because a real man doesn’t have to be “allowed” to be one.
@Cheekie, …he don’t hear you though, lol
@Cheekie,
you know what we mean by “letting a man be a man” We talking about all that stuff about men that grosses you out and makes you want to sucker punch LOL…
Smiley Face, are you still here, ninjaette? you have now become my arch-enema.
@T. Troy Stewart,
I know, I just think it’s an interesting choice of words…
@T. Troy Stewart, you gon walk ova but you gon limp back…shamone Cletus!
@T. Troy Stewart,
“I don’t think my dyck doner can keep it up knowing this, I will allow him to think that he’s the kang of r&b”
*DEAD*
@Smiley Face, you didn’t come right out and say it, Sassy. You’re no dummy, I can tell that.
@T. Troy Stewart,
i am not Sassy *sticking my tongue out* lol
dude..i don’t have all the power, by any means…i’ve known this man since i was 14. we were high school sweethearts and he was my first. every relationship i’ve had with other men have been held to a standard that he set as a 17 year old boy. no one has even come close to being the man that he is today.
i am back in school because he pushed me to do so because he knows i am not happy with this career and like i said when i finish i will be making more money than him so that when he goes back to school after we’re married, there will be no burden…it has nothing to do with ‘letting him think he’s in control’. it has to do with him knowing who i am…that’s respect.
we don’t live together yet so right now i have to be self-sufficient and financially secure. i have rent to pay, a car note, insurance…all that good stuff and it’s not fair of me to ask him to take care of that when he has those same bills as well but yet he takes care of me emotionally, physically, mentally and spiritually. that’s what i meant…he leads by sometimes being a follower…that amazes me.
now when we get married, we are one…there is no mine or yours, there is ours. i don’t make decisions for US without him being involved and neither does he…again, that’s respect. He wants to move to Texas…I don’t but I will because that’s where we need to be to make him happy, that’s compromise…and that’s what we’re preparing for.
now i can see where you think it’s funny but all of what i said in my original post i’m able to do/be because he lets me.
@Smiley Face,
why didn’t you just say that initially, jerkette? I swear.
@T. Troy Stewart,
me and you gon fight!! lol!
@Smiley Face, LOL at you, you frontin’ lil’ thing.
@T. Troy Stewart,
No I’m not, lol! I know what side my bread is buttered on. I just know what my situation is now vs. what it will be when we are married. We have a mission
*cracks up at the e-banter going on*
Ya’ll better just go e-makeout or something…
@Cheekie, LMAO!!
@Cheekie, you know you my e-huckleberry
@T. Troy Stewart, smiley face
get a room. preferably one with venetian blinds
@The Champ,
I ain’t studdin’ Smiley Face…even though I bet she a sloppy kisser, I like sloppy kissers. Nevermind!
@T. Troy Stewart,
“you know you my e-huckleberry”
lol, yup, yup, I know this.
@Champ,
LMAO! Yes, on those venetian blinds.
@T. Troy Stewart, *giggling*
@Champ..Cole…u stoopid
@Smiley Face,
You have figured out the code. Now flee before you are assassinated (lol).
Seriously, that is a summary of what most (Black) men want. Period.
A man will not say it outloud for fear of being perceived as sexist, neanderthal thinker, etc.
I also note how you state you were raised in a dual parent household. I was also raised in a dual parent home. Be mindful that alot of these women (20-30s) were NOT raised in a household with both parents, thus their view is skewed. Many were raised by single mothers, whom they watched make every decision, struggle, fight, etc. so they take on that personality, because it is all they know. The others often have a delusional expectation of how a dual household works because they were not raised in one. It is like someone offering insight on life in another country without living there.
It saddens me to say, but now I am really beginning to narrow the field of serious prospects to women who also have grown up in dual parent households because it is a serious culture clash. There are exceptions of course, but by and large the rules hold true.
Bond. BlkBond.
@BlkBond,
‘You have figured out the code. Now flee before you are assassinated’
*running for my life*
but all kidding aside, we need each other. learn what the other one needs and provide it unselfishly..period.
@BlkBond,
Hmmm… Your premise seems counter productive. If all the seeds of duals mate up and all the single parent seeds mate up, then by your theory they can only perpetuate that same reality. So more than half the population would be doomed to repeat it. I’m taking you literally, b/c you’re literally weeding them out with this criteria. What’s missing here is accountability. It’s quite possible to have grown up in an unhealthy or unstable environment without using it as the blueprint. Adults cannot continue blaming grown-up actions on some bs that we witnessed in our youth. Know better, do better.
@bittersweet’s baby,
You are correct that the behavior you witness in youth cannot be the sole blame for issues as an adult, but it does not mean the youthful issues hold no weight on these people as adults. I listen to people everyday from ages varying from 21-61 gripe about things that happened during their childhood and puberty.
Do not take my assessment literally. I last 3 women I have dated have all been the products of single mother homes–it was awkward and painful, and those were the good memories. I am saying that for , I have decided to give more weight to whether a woman has been raised by both parents than I have in past due to the things I have seen, heard, and experienced in the past 3 years. You are correct, there is no accountability, but this is true of an entire generation, not simply unique in dating/relationships involving children from single parent homes. The difference is for me there are enough things to consider at this stage, by narrowing my focus, this is one less thing to worry about. Wrong:maybe. Right: for me at this time.
Bond.
Since I was young, I always imagined myself being the breadwinner. My mother was the breadwinner and it was always known. My father pulled in his share too, but my mother had the big title at work and at home. I don’t really care who the breadwinner is when I get married, but I prefer that it’s my husband because men have a hard time dealing with making less than their partner. I’ve seen it first hand, it’s not pretty. It’s a passive-aggressive mess.
@Miss Patterson,
“I’ve seen it first hand, it’s not pretty. It’s a passive-aggressive mess.”
this is exactly how i felt the first time i saw cheekie naked
@The Champ,
ooooooh…..
**shots.fired.**
@The Champ,
WHAT….IN…THEE…GLORIOUS…F*CK?
Champie, go skip into the Grand Canyon.
@Miss Patterson, but I prefer that it’s my husband because men have a hard time dealing with making less than their partner.
though i recognize this as having truth, i’m starting to believe this notion is bigger in theory than it is in practice. i personally wouldn’t give two sh*ts if my girl made more money than me. it does nothing to invalidate my manhood. i’m still sexxy and i’m still me. i’m sure there are men out there who do care, but they are probably power-hungry men to begin with. maybe there are a gang of powerhungry cats out there who want to control their women etc, but i’d guess that most of us just want to watch football in peace.
@Panama Jackson,
concur.
Panama,
You don’t really expect people to be honest about this topic, do you?
Nearly every household that I’m aware of, the men probably make more money
Lets break this one down, shall we?
…I bet the odds are that in black households, the women makes more money than her man 50% of the time.
And lets say you do make more money than him…let me ask you this, could you live the lifestyle you living WITHOUT his income? Could you afford to pay for that car you’re riding in, the mortgage, the Target Trips (c), getting your hair done and kept up properly…etc…etc…etc.
9 times out of 10, no you can’t.
I don’t need to discuss this one further.
I don’t really care who the breadwinner is when I get married, but I prefer that it’s my husband because men have a hard time dealing with making less than their partner.
Now it’s not that simple. If you got girlfriends that y’all been tight with since grade school or because she first show you how duck sick or not even as deep as that and you mess around and tell them that you making more loot than your man, what’s the first thing they gonna say? Be honest.
The Black Man In America is the most talked about on the planet. It doesn’t matter how high he is on the ladder, either, look at President Obama, have you seen this many people talking down to the Leader Of The Free Motherfu*kin’ World as much as this man has been in the seven short months he’s been in the big chair? And he getting clowned, mostly, for sh*t the last mofo did. He even catching it for trying to MAKE IT LESS LIKELY YOU WILL HAVE TO SELL YOUR HOUSE BECUASE YOU WENT IN THE HOSPITAL FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS…
So if a brotha is making less money than his woman, he might as well be robbing and stealin’ because the gangbangers and dope man get more respect than a Calvin @ Mickey Dee’s a.k.a. a hard workin’ ninja bringing home a weekly paycheck and trying to do the right thing for his family and as a man.
@T. Troy Stewart,
…bruh..did somebody touch a nerve this morning?
@Smiley Face,
and here we go…
VSB followers, in my opinion, don’t seem like your average runaway so I don’t expect to see the same exact crap I see on every other black website when this topic of discussion come up.
I could have just kept my mouth shut, like the majority of brothas do when these things come up (because they know it’s a losing battle to even try to debate this without coming off as some kind of Negroanderthal and/or militant-angry.
So to answer your question, no, no one touched a nerve, I just thought that we’re among adults here, let’s stop pussayfootin’ around and have a real, adult convo.
@T. Troy Stewart,
ok…i was making a joke…but nevermind, have a good day
@Smiley Face, really, good day? what about all that you said?
@T. Troy Stewart,
i responded by asking a question
@Smiley Face, I’m talking about your initial post
@T. Troy Stewart, so am i…i asked you a question in my post..go look so we can fight, lol
@T. Troy Stewart,
My mother was the bread winner in my house hold and JUST BECAUSE YOU MAKE MORE MONEY THAN YOUR PARTNER, DOESN’T MEAN HE IS BROKE.. Before my parents got into real estate my dad made about 50k and my mom made around 80k… really tho, that is not much of a differance in lifestlye.. Now I could understand if the woman made 100k and the ninja was frying chicken making 18k.. that may cause a complex. My father was always supportive of my mother. I also wanted to mention, my parents are husband and wife, and there has never been a his or hers.. Everything was for the famly. When my mother wanted to go back to college at the age of 40, my father was very supportive.. when my father wanted to join a salsa band and play the muvafuggin bongos, my mother was very supportive. When my mother was diagnosed with stage 4 sarcoidosis in 1996. My father did everything… fed her, washed her, wiped her a$$, carried her, he nursed her back to life again. A real man ( because I have watched my father and my grandfather) is going to get the job done. Whatever that job is, regardless of stature or $ in the bank.
@Lanieanna, that’s what I’m talking about.
@Lanieanna, that’s what i’m talm ’bout too!
@Lanieanna,
how is your mom doing now?
@Lanieanna,
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I think that money (like secks) mainly comes into the marital equation, when there is not enough of it to go round. Secks and $$$ are like 90% of problems when stuff is not going right, but when all is well in that corner, maybe are like 10% of what makes the marriage happy. This is of course excluding pathologies of the female “you ain’t shyt, I make more $$ than you” and its male counterpart “shut up, and cook me some dinner and as the main earner, let the grown up make the decisions”…
@Lanieanna,
My mother has been in remission since 99
@T. Troy Stewart, I agree T. Troy.
Women want it both ways… to be able to out earn a man and are now a lot of times out earning men – but still want their men to be “providers”. That is a questionable thought process to me. Working together for what you want, whoever makes more just makes more sense to me. And sharing freely with your man, as you would expect him to do for you. If I love my job and happen to make more money, but I love my man, then why would I put this crazy expectation on him? Am I going to give up my job so that I make less? It doesn’t make sense – or will i be single for life cuz i can’t find a man who makes more?
@pgh muse,
Working together for what you want, whoever makes more just makes more sense to me. And sharing freely with your man, as you would expect him to do for you.
Thank you. Unconditionality, it’s not so hard.
@T. Troy Stewart, it seems like you are taking exception to certain points in the post which I can understand and agree with but I guess I am trying to figure out what role do you think men are expected to play in relationships ?
@shay_d_lady, oh and I meant to say how do you think women expect to have it “both ways”? forgive me its early…
@shay_d_lady, I just don’t think it’s that hard or complicated. I believe in that saying, “the heart wants what it wants”. The complications come in when we start listening to what the world expects.
If you in love with a hobo and you making 5 times as much as him, who am I to question that. If you love him and willing to accept that, that’s all that should matter. Not what I think but how you two feel for one another.
@T. Troy Stewart, thing is, my man, society’s ugly little opinion has its way of nailing itself in the brains of even the most content, teflon people. You can have a perfectly normal “method to your madness” idea that will pay off in the long run and that judgmental outside world will find a way to make you feel some kinda insecure way about it. It’s the nature of the beast.
@Stuff Ghetto People Like, that is true but that doesn’t mean you have to accept it.
@T. Troy Stewart,
Nearly every household that I’m aware of, the men probably make more money
its funny. while i personally know maybe three times as many women making an above average salary than men, in most of the couples i know the man is usually making more money.
thing is, while the easy answer to this scenario is just to say that it proves that high-earning women are doomed to be perpetually single and prospect-less, all of the attractive professional women i know have to basically beat men off with a stick.
the moral of the story: f*ck jim jones.
@The Champ,
It’s funny because I was having a similar covo with a friend a while back. Married men have more opportunities longterm for career advancement (assuming they’re not working a dead end job) and once women are married, we are more likely to hit the glass ceiling so to speak because of our expectation to put our families first, and having children. Not to say women haven’t achieved beyond that, but your average woman will experience resistance.
@T. Troy Stewart, Panama,
You don’t really expect people to be honest about this topic, do you?
i do actually. though i will say that i often think that people make comments from the perspective of their ideal self as opposed to their actual self.
i really think a lot of this comes down to the notion that somehow men aren’t pulling their weight any more though. if we were, none of this would be an issue.
ever since oprah told celie that she’d kill harpo dead if he put his hands on her again women done got out of pocket.
@Panama Jackson,
“ever since oprah told celie that she’d kill harpo dead if he put his hands on her again women done got out of pocket.”
But it was only in reaction to men getting out of pocket.
Same with the independent women parade. A lot of crazy ish we do is in reaction to ya’ll. You brought it on yourself. lol
@Cheekie, now now, Cheekie, you can’t blame every man because of the actions of Chris Brown.
@T. Troy Stewart, every time i see This Christmas, i feel compelled to yell out, “BEAT DOWN BROWN” at the tv.
“now now, Cheekie, you can’t blame every man because of the actions of Chris Brown.”
I didn’t though. I’m just saying, all this Beyonce hoopla going around that ya’ll complain about is in reaction to you mens.
The Single Ladies mantra – Ninjas don’t wanna boo us up? Fine, but don’t cry when some other dude does. And beyond the ring part, well, women are embracing being single. We figure, we might as damn well.
The Independent Women mantra – Susie Homemaker is out the door because we can’t find Peter Provider. All those “deadbeat dad” stories got folks tired and women decide to cut to the chase and just provide for themselves. It’s always been going around, but just recently we’ve been making it a trendy thing.
The Bootylicious mantra – Oh you want to roll with Becky? And I quote, “I don’t think you’re ready for this jelly”.Ok, the third one is tongue-in-cheek…I’m not entirely sure that was in response to ninjas scooping up 2520 chicks. But I know that the “something new” trend is in response to ya’ll. Badda bing.
@panama jackson
“every time i see This Christmas, i feel compelled to yell out, “BEAT DOWN BROWN” at the tv.”
you’ve watched “this christmas” multiple times?
@Champ,
“you’ve watched “this christmas” multiple times?”
LOL, good question. Panama is a masochist, I’m thinkin’…
@Cheekie,
ssseee…dats why i likes you! *dap*
@Cheekie, she shoulda got that lip in check and he wouldn’t have had to beat her. you see, this goes back to the Garden of Eden…
…y’all always getting us caught up in some sh*t and then not taking responsibility for your part.
@Panama Jackson,
“she shoulda got that lip in check and he wouldn’t have had to beat her. you see, this goes back to the Garden of Eden…
…y’all always getting us caught up in some sh*t and then not taking responsibility for your part.”
LMFAO @ “caught up”. Adam could’ve NOT eaten the apple…ya know…been a MAN and made his own choice instead of listening to Eve.
LMFAO @ “caught up”. Adam could’ve NOT eaten the apple…ya know…been a MAN and made his own choice instead of listening to Eve.
Wow…. this is actually more profound than you realize, Cheekster. Read it again.
@Cheekie,
mmmhmmm…how you s’pose to follow him following me, lol
@Cheekie, you see, he could have NOT eaten it but why would he think his woman would steer him wrong. after all, he felt he could trust his main squeeze.
see the lesson here is, don’t trust women with apples. unless they’re apple bottoms, in which case you STILL can’t trust a big butt and a smile.
women are evil.
@Panama Jackson,
No, the lesson here is: God gave Adam the directive, therefore it was on him to make sure the apple was resisted. What y’all really gotta question is why Adam was out of place. He couldn’t have been in his rightful position to protect her or else the snake never would’ve gotten that close…
For me, my independence in a relationship directly relates to how I was raised. Which was by a single woman. I saw my mother do the job of man and woman and she to this day is the strongest person I know.
Growing up in that environment led me to be the kind of chick that thought she could (and needed to) do everything for herself. I never verbalized that with any partners, I just acted that way. “Babe, you need money for x,y,z?” “Nah, I got it, I’m good.” I never accepted anything from anyone b/c all I knew was how to be independent.
It’s only in the last 2 years or so that I realized that that (subconscious) mindset was harming my relationships. I’m still in the process of learning how to let go of my independence/control and let someone help me. But it’s not b/c I feel superior cause I have degrees or make a certain amt of money, it’s because of how I was raised. I once had a reedonkulous fight with an ex b/c I wouldn’t serve him dinner. I was like serve yourself cotdamit. And he thought my behavior was abhorrent b/c he’d grown up seeing his mom serve his dad and do all the “womanly” duties. I didn’t grow up that way.
So now, I consciously tell myself…let him be a man and do his thing. And I try to let go of my childhood sh*t and be “the woman” while still staying true to who I am and what I know.
@vlogan,
Hard lesson to learn… Aint it? I’m still working on myself too sis.
@vlogan,
I once had a reedonkulous fight with an ex b/c I wouldn’t serve him dinner. I was like serve yourself cotdamit
make or actually serve?
@The Champ, I made it. Slaved away at it actually, while he sat his a*s in front of the TV. Then when it was done he moved said a*s to the table and was like…aiiight, bring forth the meal. I was HEAT. TED. lol.
@vlogan, i think this is the case for a lot of women. i’ve encountered many women who grew up with out fathers with an almost rebellious nature and clear cut control issues.
guess this one comes back to men abandoning ship. that’s why i get so excited when i meet women who know, respect, and love their daddies. its almost like i feel a need to tell everybody, “she like her daddy y’all!!!”
good comment. very honest and self aware. a lot of people could benefit from that level of instrospection.
btw, not sure if you’ve been here before, i’ve got early onset sexxiness so i forget stuff, but just in case, welcome and sh*t
@Panama Jackson,
I guess I shouldn’t say I grew up w/out my father. He was “around” sometimes but not much of a father. Which I suppose is one and the same. *sigh*
But I will pat myself on the back and say that I am (sometimes too) self-aware and often look deeper into the reasons for my behavior and get help when necessary.
And I’ve been around. I’m a serial lurker.
@vlogan,
I saw my mother do the job of man and woman
Nothing personal (so I’ll spare the more inflammatory opinions), but I never did like the implications of or mentality behind this kind of language…why can’t it ever just be looked at as doing what it takes to get business handled?
@vlogan,
I admire you for being honest and open enough to say this. I think many sistas feel this way, but do not say anything for the perception of being ‘weak’.
It shouldn’t take a one on one game in the middle of the night to make you swallow your pride. (Love & Basketball)
Bond. BlkBond.
@BlkBond,
Thanks. Took me many a failed relationship to be honest and open about my sh*t.
I mean danged if we do danged if we dont. black women have been suffering from a severe case of self hate for many years prompted by oppresive acts in the past. this is understood. we have to survive, so when we adapt to our situtations (the abandonment of the black male as a support system), we first get called “golddiggers” for looking out for self and family and support. then we get called “b*tch*s” for standing up for ourselves and doing for ourselves. hmmm if a man cant handle his woman making more than him, then i suppose he’d better start making more. Truth be told, women STILL make less then men in the workplace. I have no empathy for a man who cant step it up and meet his woman at the bar. We dont dictate our circumstance, we are just trying to survive…
@eysqueen,
hmmm if a man cant handle his woman making more than him, then i suppose he’d better start making more.
this made me chuckle.
but fa real, fa real, depending on the job, it may not be possible for a person to get enough raises to make more than their significant other. i mean lets face it — some one working at smith barney is likely always gonna make more than a grade school teacher, even if said SB employee is on mail delivery. so in actuality, pay grade isn’t a measure for how hard you work or even how much you desire to provide for your family.
@Gem of the Ocean,
i mean lets face it — some one working at smith barney is likely always gonna make more than a grade school teacher, even if said SB employee is on mail delivery. so in actuality, pay grade isn’t a measure for how hard you work or even how much you desire to provide for your family
this is where the “ambition” question gets tricky.
i mean, you hear people talk about how a profession doesn’t matter as long as a guy is ambitious and the profession is noble, but, in their eyes, i wonder how the ambitious-ass socialworker with a salary cap at 55 compares to guy who graduated last in his class at law school and walked into a 130 per year gig at a giant firm.
@The Champ,
hmmm. . .
intriguing
@The Champ,
Idealing I would rather have a guy whose ambitions include helpings others and enacting change in his community than homie who can buy Lambos wit the rims.
“They spinin, ni99a they spiniiin. . . . “
@The Champ, socialworkers always win out.
@eysqueen, hmmm if a man cant handle his woman making more than him, then i suppose he’d better start making more.
that’s why its best to only date chicks who are bartenders. what with this recession and all, folks are drinking a lot more at home…
@Panama Jackson,
LOL
@Panama Jackson,
all TAM certified and sh*t lol
The whole independent woman thing is a bunch of crock. We ALL (men and women) need each other…unless you’re gay (NTTAWWT). We all serve a purpose to each other especially in the realm of romantic relationships. Just cause you’re a man who can seperate light and dark clothes and cook up a meal like G. Garvin doesn’t mean that you don’t need a woman as the same applies to a woman who can kill a bug and take out some trash doesn’t mean that you don’t need a man.
Although there’s nothing wrong with being “independent”, many women wear it as a badge of honor when in fact, they’re independent by default. They either can’t find or can’t keep a good man, so they are forced to do shyt for themselves (and their kids). They have no choice.
I wrote a blog about the whole “independent” thing before…here’s an excerpt:
“Ladies, just remember that independent means SELF-contained, SELF-governing, SELF-sufficient, and SELF-supporting. But when taken overboard, you’ll only find yourSELF by YOURSELF.”
Check the rest here:
http://my2cents-sense.blogspot.com/2008/03/my-two-pennies-independent-from-auc.html
@Monk,
“The whole independent woman thing is a bunch of crock. We ALL (men and women) need each other.”
This is that good stuff right here.
@miss t-lee, that’s the bottom line, we all need one another but we too damn stubborn to give in because if you give in first you’re the weaker one and the whole mess starts over again.
@T. Troy Stewart,
This I know…I’m guilty as a mofo on this…lol
@miss t-lee, I live with your twin LOL
@ T. Troy Stewart ,
Say word? It takes us awhile, but we eventually come around…lol
@miss t-lee, it sure does LOL
@ T. Troy Stewart ,
Is she a cancer too?
@miss t-lee, nah, a Baptist.
miss t-lee: Is she a cancer too?
T. Troy Stewart: nah, a Baptist.
I laughed.
@miss t-lee,
iChortled at this whole exchange.
LOL…this exchange was hilarious. It was like the T Troy Stewart and miss t-lee VSB revue.
@ T. Troy Stewart ,
You silly!!!!! lol
Glad I could be part of this entertaining exchange…lol
@T. Troy Stewart, personally, i like my chicks with weak knees.
@Panama Jackson, good point
@Panama Jackson,
u sure about that? wouldn’t that make for some limited knowledge? and missing important athletic skills?
@Cheekie,
Why did I hear that music that Elvis used to come in with, when I read this?
@miss t-lee,
Because you’re genius. THAT’S what playing at ya’lls show. YES!
@ Cheekie,
I was hoping you knew what music I was talking about.
Seriously, I’m humming it right now…lol
* I just googled it, here ya go…lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBE4a4LbZuE
@Monk,
Cosignage.
@Monk, “The whole independent woman thing is a bunch of crock. We ALL (men and women) need each other.”
These are my thoughts on the issue. Thanks.
I will put it like this, I don’t care how much of a degree, how much “independance”, or how much loot she is pulling in, if a sistah is with a brotha she respects, everything else will fall into place.
There are allot of brothas out there that women just flat out don’t respect…and rightfully so. So why do brothas just up and expect a today’s sistah to just move aside and let you run things?
Today’s sistah ain’t playing that, and the SECOND a brotha starts trippin, they will BOUNCE (after letting you know the deal, of course). So if a brotha wants to be respected as “THE man” he is got a hill to climb…and rightfully so. But on the flipside, if a brotha is willing to tackle that hill and makes it to the top, a sistah will automatically recognize game and the respect will be there (after the respect, EVERYTHING else will fall into place).
@Brotha Tech,
But on the flipside, if a brotha is willing to tackle that hill and makes it to the top, a sistah will automatically recognize game and the respect will be there (after the respect, EVERYTHING else will fall into place).
say what?
@Brotha Tech,
‘I will put it like this, I don’t care how much of a degree, how much “independance”, or how much loot she is pulling in, if a sistah is with a brotha she respects, everything else will fall into place.”
You betta tell them! Amen!
@Smiley Face, you be quiet LOL, you know good and well you ain’t about to bow down to some dude all that easily, Red Sonja.
@T. Troy Stewart,
don’t be shushing me, lol, and you would be wrong…again bighead
i know how to interpret ‘the look’ from him ..the one that says ‘woman you betta gon head somewhere and sattdown’.
@Smiley Face, oh I got you figured out now…you one of them big game talkers but your man was to walk up in here, you would be all “heyyyy baby!” and running up under him, marking your territory and daring a biotch to look at him like she want him…
You’re Michelle Obama
@Smiley Face,
yessir..all day long!
@Smiley Face, you know, i think this “look” is akin to the lochness monster. the only way that sh*t really works is if you ever put your man in such a position to lose his damn mind and you don’t call the cops.
going forward you’re aware that he has his blast off point.
i also believe that most of today’s black women are up for the “challenge” of a man trying to put a woman in her “place”.
there’s a reason the statement, “i wish a ninja would…” exists…
@Panama Jackson,
LOL…no cops involved…i’m related to too many, he’d be short. lol
@Brotha Tech,
Today’s sistah ain’t playing that, and the SECOND a brotha starts trippin, they will BOUNCE (after letting you know the deal, of course)
lol, i dont know about all that. i know quite a few “professional” black chicks who give cats more chances and room to flip-flop than the minnesota vikings.
@The Champ,
LOL
“See …that’s what’s wrong with out people and sh*t. They put our women equal to men…we’re not equal…..that’s comin from me n_gga.” – Tony Starks
@Mr. Mister, people just don’t know their roles anymore and its because black women have been @ the helm so long, most don’t know how to surrender the reigns………I think most women want a man to be a man in the traditonal sense, to take the lead etc but don’t trust he is able, and esp for the long term, or maybe he himself is unsure because of xy and z……SMH…..all I know is we black women need the black man to be MEN now more than ever…you may have to demonstrate your ability and trustworthiness etc , your can do and dedication…show is prove.
@Mr. Mister, he also wears robes and bangles with true-to-scale eagles on them…
@Panama Jackson,
and (although he’s my fav rapper) he compared his rhymes to ziti, and publicly admitted to period sex.
basically, he’s not someone you wanna be taking advice from
@The Champ,
…or anyone on WorldStar/Shade 45
Them eagles is the biz tho’
@Panama Jackson, Ghostface is a man’s man. He ain’t wearin’ no skinny jeans or using Oil of Olay.
@Panama Jackson,
did some one say baaaaaangles?!?!?! always the baaaaaanlges (c) b.scott
@Gem of the Ocean, i swear for the lawd i knew cause they said bangles you would come.
always the baaaangles.
a. there has never been a such thing as a “traditional” family and “traditional” male/female roles. thats some fairy tale bull that’s been pushed down our throats. we have to reexamine all of that and let that go
b. i feel that whoever is making the most money (i.e. going out to fight the concrete jungle run the rat race etc) should be the one to come home kick back and relax to a ‘tini and dinner on the table. if im making the most moneys then i dont want to come home to a dirty house with a cold oven. if he is the one doing that then ill defer. but it wont ever be any of this slave type he run everything and make all the decisions ish. its a partnership.
@tnt, though i agree with you in principle (and maybe i’ve always dated the wrong women), but i’ve yet to come home to a woman i was making more than who would be okay with me taking the evening off while she did what needed to be done to keep our house in order. women’s lib movement definitely has all women on the equal partners kick.
i think all of my chicks read too much.
@tnt, try popping everything you just said in the Middle East.
@Stuff Ghetto People Like, we’re not in the middle east. stay focused.
@overit, if we have readers elsewhere in the Anglosphere, why can’t there be any in the Middle East?
Oh, that’s right, those dudes probably wouldn’t even let them near the internet.
Well, I’m not that dayum independant. I am sure that there are many who will differ in opinion, but I totally believe in gender roles. I wouldn’t care if I was a multi-million dolla superwoman, I’m gon still expect that ninja to take out the trash, cut the grass, wash the car, put gas in the cars, fix shyt, protect, provide, ya know the things that I think men are supposed to do. A lot of women consider themselves equal to men… but how many women want a man that can’t be a “man”? I have a very strong personality, and definitly can be agressive at times, but for me , a man dayum near has to have a Hulk attitude for me to be attracted because I need for that man to remind me that I am a woman, delicate and sensative. Me personally.. I do consider myself to be strong and independant. I can change a flat, I can patch a hole in the wall, I carry a gun…. but I don’t do those things because I’m strong and independant.. I do it because I don’t have a man to do it for me! I know that I am capable of performing any task that I put my mind to… But how would I prefer a man to see me? I definitly don’t want to be seen as the woman that “don’t need no man”.
@Lanieanna,
good point. I’m independent and do all kinds of manual labor and shyt b/c I have to, not b/c I want to. The last time I thought about changing a flat (b/c I didn’t feel like waiting for AAA), all I could think was I wish I had a man so I could call him to change the flat, or at least come wait for AAA with me.
@N.I.A. naturally, man do i hate changing flat tires.
@Panama Jackson,
me too!! LOL!
@Lanieanna,
I can appreciate your whole comment.
@miss t-lee,
Thanks n sh!t
@Lanieanna, i know that’s right!
@Lanieanna, cosigning this one
@Lanieanna,
but I don’t do those things because I’m strong and independant.. I do it because I don’t have a man to do it for me!
girrrrl you said that!!! yes indeed. are you my other e-twin?? lol
i’m cool with gender roles too. i do the “ms independent” (just barely tho) thing becuz i have to. and my daddy raised me to be responsible on my own so that i dont have to rush to get a man to do things for me.
@Gem of the Ocean,
AND
I am not ashamed to say, that in a perfect world ( I am a single mother ) I would love to live the life of an at home mother… I would make all of the field trips, all of the PTA meetings, all of the recitals and basketball games. I could go to the maket everyday and purchase fresh ingrediants for dinner that night, heck, I wish I could cook every night, I would definitly save money on a house keeper ( even illegal labor is gettin expensive these days) It almost seems as though the “independant woman” has made the home maker feel ashamed and unaccomplished. I would love to have a garden I actually had time to maintain… oops… givin yall too much of me in my fantasy land!
@Lanieanna,
“I can change a flat, I can patch a hole in the wall, I carry a gun”
***making special seating arrangements for lanieanna at the vsb bbq***
@The Champ,
“vsb bbq”….*sideye*
@The Champ,
…..as long as i dont have to take my shoes off! LOL!
@Lanieanna,
Good Post. Some of y’all ladies are on point.
Bond. BlkBond.
i don’t think ppl’s (namely WOMEN’s) values have changed. circumstances and opportunities have changed. i dont think this idea of women being breadwinners and thus being a*holes on a power trip is becuz of some magic switch — where one moment they’re happy being housewives and the next minute they’re bossing their husbands around becuz they have the bigger bank account. “back in the olden days” it wasn’t considered a power trip or controlling when men were the sole or majority providers. but when women step up to the plate, now, becuz they CAN or because they HAVE TO, they’re seen as villians who want the world. so basically when it comes to working and making good bank, women can’t win.
but anyway i say all that to say, while income and status have historically ruled relationships, it doesn’t have to. it really just goes back to basic principles and values you have for yourself and your family life. i knew plenty of families growing up where gender roles were heavy in the home, yet the wife made more money then the husband. yet you’d never know becuz their was no evident power struggle (maybe behind closed doors but still) becuz you always say the wife having dinner prepared every night, and looked after the kids, took off work if a kid was sick, etc… while the husband was the disciplinarian and made most of the financial decisions.
i guess my point is, relationships and family life is what you make it. $$$ doesn’t have to be the ruler of all.
@Gem of the Ocean, but when women step up to the plate, now, becuz they CAN or because they HAVE TO, they’re seen as villians who want the world. so basically when it comes to working and making good bank, women can’t win.
this could also be the case of some women ruining it for the whole b/c you and i both know (due to where we went to school) women who fly the “men ain’t sh*t” flag proudly. i’ve had a woman tell me that no real man would be a school teacher b/c that job doesnt make any woman and that real men step up to jobs that scream of power and status, etc.
this chick is a lawyer who has also told me that i wasn’t an intellectual b/c she wasn’t sure if could hold my own in a conversation with her. mind you, we’d never HAD a convo that required it but she saw it fit to make sure that every man was aware of her stature etc. my point here ist hat, some women do indeed suck. and not in a good way and make it a point to let a man know that he isn’t being manly enough due to his decisions, etc.
my guess is she’s gonna be lonely for a long time. the problem is she aint the only chick i know like that.
@Panama Jackson,
“my point here is that, some women do indeed suck”
lol, i wonder how the comments would have gone if this would have been your entire entry today.
@Panama Jackson,
i’ve had a woman tell me that no real man would be a school teacher b/c that job doesnt make any woman and that real men step up to jobs that scream of power and status, etc.
Who is this Succubus and why hasn’t she been vanquished yet?
What she said is probably the most VILE thing I’ve ever heard. She needs to kill herself. And I’m not joking.
@BlackBerry Molasses,
If you find her, I will prepare the potion and shet
@Panama Jackson,
yes, there are PLENTY of women who have bad attitudes about their paychecks and status. but i don’t necessarily think it’s becuz of their income — it’s mostly becuz they’re inherent a*holes. their pay stub is merely a prop.
@Gem of the Ocean,
Word.
“some women are a**holes” and “These bishes went crazy with power!!” are waaay different statements.
Agree with your whole post tho.
OK… I read the other comments and there were some valid points, but let’s keep it really real: there is no such thing as a truly independent woman (or man for that matter) and GOD intentionally made it that way! We need each other to continue our existence.
Now, I love my sisters and for various reasons throughout history, we have been in situations where we had to do it on our own. But…I think we as black women (can’t speak for the other ethnicities that I’m not part of) have to learn how to balance that Destiny’s Child Anthem with where our place truly is.
For the single women: do your thing, be “independent” but understand that you may stay single.
For the not single women: realize that the man is the head of the household. It doesn’t matter who makes more money, he sits at the head of the table. Your job is to be a supportive mate. Ain’t nobody’s business who makes more money in your house except for the people that are in it! (I gotta jump on my soap box for a quick minute. Sorry, but I gotta talk to my sisters …)
Ladies, a LOT of you have it twisted, equal rights is for the workplace NOT where you lay your head. In the home and when in public, it is our job to stand by our man NOT walk side by side with him. For those that may not get what I’m saying, let me paint a picture… Your man is in the lead, you walk a ½ step behind him with your hand in the small of his back to let him know that you are there to support him at all times. Because guess what…if you can’t trust him to lead you – then ya a$$ should stayed single. You’re the dummy if you are with a man that you can’t trust to lead you! Ladies, we gotta get it together too. It’s not just the men that need to look in the mirror and evaluate. (ok, stepping off the soap box now , or this will be a damn dissertation.)
@Bayou Classic,
hmmmmmm i can get with gender roles, but the feminist spelmanite (ADW anyone??) in me can’t get with the walking a half step behind a man. no way on this earth.
to explain… i think gender roles have their place becuz well, men and women are made differently. men are typically stronger physically than women and use that strength to do hard labor, which often times is what earns them a pay check (think “back in the olden days”). and they can aim their pee… while standing up!! women have to squat or sit to pee (otherwise it just gets messy and gross), are typically weaker than men, are more emotional, and have the sole ability to carry children in their womb — so it only makes sense that women be the nurturers and primary caretakers of their children. and since women tend to children in the home, it only seems fitting that they take care of the home, by cooking, cleaning, etc while her mate is out using his muscles to earn that paycheck. all of these things contribute to why gender roles often make sense and work.
but that has NOTHING to do with a man leading and only women being submissive. a person can still lead walking side by side with their mate. hell, a person can still guide and steer another’s direction by walking behind them. i guess my point is — i dont see anything about gender roles dictating who is the almighty powerful in a relationship. i mean, if that works for you (global sense of “you”), then great. but i dont think women MUST be submissive in order to be good wives/mothers while still letting “a man be a man”– regardless of how much she makes.
@Gem of the Ocean,
i see you, spelmanite!!
@Gem of the Ocean, hmmmmmm i can get with gender roles, but the feminist spelmanite (ADW anyone??) in me can’t get with the walking a half step behind a man. no way on this earth.
girl, you know thats where you belong.
@Panama Jackson,
ctfu.
@Gem of the Ocean,
yes ma’am!
@Gem of the Ocean, I don’t think u “hearing” what I’m “saying” – it all in how you take it. I think submissive has a negative connotation and am not suggesting that any one be submissive. You say you can’t walk 1/2 step behind & that’s on you. Me on the other hand, I can allow someone to lead because I have confidence in them and I am there to support them; not because I am submissive. But I do feel what you’re saying. Different strokes for different folks, right?
@Bayou Classic,
I understand n sh!t.
@Bayou Classic,
no i hear you loud and clear — as i’ve read many of your comments.
my thing is, must i ALWAYS be led?? and MY answer to that question is no. just cuz i trust in a man’s leadership doesn’t mean he’s ALWAYS the better leader. whichis why we need to walk side by side. cuz if you start making wrong turns or cross before looking both ways, i need to be able to be on the good foot and redirect OUR walk and lead us on the right path.
there’s nothing wrong with men AND women sharing this role. just becuz a man is expected to provide doesn’t mean he’s the better leader.
@Gem of the Ocean, to answer your question simply…yes.
Being led doesn’t mean that the two of you can’t discuss things & give your opinion. I would hope that if your plan is better and more logical then he should be “man enough” to accept that. But that discussion id between the two of you. I feel that anyone on the outside looking in should see him leading his family (even if it was the woman’s idea). I’ve seen this work for the 30 years that I watched my parents & both sets of grandparents & various other married couples that I looked up to. The women still had their say, still spoke up & all had hellified mouth pieces (LOL) but at the end of the day, when their husband said what it was gonna be- that’s what it was.
And… you are right, the role can be shared, I even feel you on the redirecting…I just feel that it is my place to share that role as being supportive behind the scenes, not standing side by side shouting to the world that I am his equal.
“ladies, how have your expectations of the men in your changed from the prior generations, if at all?”
Not really…my Dad was the main breadwinner. My Mom worked from home, but my Dad was bringing in the majority of the change.
If my man made more or less it wouldn’t be a huge issue, as long as he was working and helping to make our home a happy one.
@miss t-lee,
I forgot to add, I do fully expect him to be “Head of Household”.
Yep.
@miss t-lee,
as long as he was working and helping to make our home a happy one
i know that’s right. both of us gotta make it work.
i wasnt going to say anything, but in all honesty im going to have to agree with T. Troy Stewart for the most part. Alot of women want to have it both ways at this point. I want to make enough money to be self sufficient and be with out you, i dont need you but i want you, and i earn more than you but its ok because your my man and leader of this house. Every last one of those ideas are contridictory nonsense. Why? because of any of those ideas are in the back of your mind they are instantly invalidated. Why? because when people get in arguements and get upset, people pull cards.
When people start pulling cards and begin having a clash of wills all the ugliest parts of your relationship and your thoughts about your S.O. come out. So if those thoughts even enter your thought process as it applies to your mate and your relationship your baiting a break up and dont even know it.
In my world however who makes the most money is unimportant. In the end whoever has the best desicion making ability and money management skills is the leader as it were. Its not who has the gold that makes the rules its the one who holds the purse strings (as it were).
@ESQuared, right. I hear all this authentic frontier gibberish about “being Independent” and “A man has to be this to be with me and that to be with me” Yadda, yadda, ya-day.
Nevermind asking any woman who does this “well, what exactly do you bring to the relationship besides your vajayjay and your long list of expectations?” Even after your man pass all these tests and checklists, are you really willing to give up your “Independent” status and give up the Head Of Household to the dude? Really?
@T. Troy Stewart,
Well I’ll then ask the question:
What are your expectations of us women folk? Whatcha wont!
Yes women tend to make laundry list of the perfect guy but at the same time men’s list seem to include A$$ titties and a mean fried chicken. So if your giving of the impression that all I gotta bring to the relationship are open legs and a crock pot, well then I’m leaving the rest of my wonderfulness at home:-P
P.S. I actually agree with a lot of your sentiments, I’m just the part-time advocate of the Devil.
@AngelicNastyness, my expectations?
Love me just as much, just as hard and just as unconditionally as I love you. If we got that, there isn’t anything that we not capable of doing.
@T. Troy Stewart,
And if I just so happen to look like the love child of Olive Oil and Tyrone Hill so be it! WEs in LUUUV! lol
I think society tends to measure a man on his earning potential and a women on her looks (cooking is slowly going out the window with the prevalence of restaurants,fast food and heatemup dinners)
I actually wrote a paper on the shift of gender roles for a class. Bottom line of my paper was that although we can consciously strive for perfect balance in relationships, we’ve been indoctrinated to abide by certain gender rules and regulations. Come to think of it, that was a dam good paper. And one looong all nighter.
@AngelicNastyness, men’s list seem to include A$$ titties and a mean fried chicken
you know i was quite disappointed when i found out that all women couldn’t cook chicken. and if shes’ not well endowed, i mean, what’s she good for?
@Panama Jackson,
and I was disappointed when i found that all Black men can’t lay pipe. . .
Wait for it. . .
I mean my grandfather and father were plumbers, so when the toilet is broken, dagnabit I expect you to fix it:-P
Looowered Expectaaations. . . . .
@AngelicNastyness, LMAO. good one.
*hi-five*
@Panama Jackson,
On the black hand side of course.
@AngelicNastyness,
So if your giving of the impression that all I gotta bring to the relationship are open legs and a crock pot, well then I’m leaving the rest of my wonderfulness at home:-P
lol, this is actually a good point.
@The Champ,
Of course it is, my twin said it…and she $hits golden eggs.
@Happy Meal,
AAAHH
LOVE OF MY LIFE YOU HAVE RETURNED TO ME!!
@T. Troy Stewart, the answer is no. Not for any reason than self preservation and not being vunerable i think though. I dont think theirs any malice in women wanting to feel secure, and their are certian types of security that are only going to come with the right job and income. Men however provide a kind of security that money dosent. I wont specify what because the roles men fulfull in relationships are different for every one.
In defense of some women ill also say, this is a result of certian kinds of conditioning. The ladies that grew up with single moms, you all have the best reasons for feeling like you need to do it all and be it all for yourself. However alot of women out here dont have these extreme circumstances and get in a few bad relationships and write men off because “ninjas aint sh!t” and go off on their i am woman hear me roar type power trips.
If your so hell bent on being I.N.D.E.P.E.N.D.E.N.T. (no Webbie) then your arses are gonna be so independent your going to be with yourself seriously lacking in interpersonal relationships with men and even other JUST because you cant seem to get past your own mental blocks and BS.
as for the vajayjay and womens list of “demands” those are just the implicit cost of relationships. We all have standards, mens are usually on a shorter list and theirs only ONE list where as women often have multiple list with 4 and 5 sub sections. It sucks but its the way it is.
@ESQuared, that’s mostly because we know that demanding this, that, and the third of a woman means we’re less likely to have a woman or have any fun with her. Though we should start going for less of women’s okeedoke…
@ESQuared,
It’s not just the children of single moms that grow up with this mindset. I come from a family with pretty traditional gender roles, and if you look up “submissive” in the dictionary you will find a picture of my moms, looking all happy n shet. It was both my mother AND father, who I adore btw, that raised me to be VERY independent, and like many young ladies in my generation raised me to put education and career first, and told me the men would always be there; and as a result of them not allowing me to date while I lived in there house, reinforced the idea that learning how to relate to a man romantically just wasn’t that important.
Now of course, that wasn’t their intent (what parent doesn’t want to see their child get married): they wanted their daughter to know how to take care of herself, but their methods taught me something completely different.
Now that I’m on my own and feeling more stable than most in my age bracket because of what I learned from my folks, I have the time and maturity to focus on developing relationships but it’s not without its challenges.
What is helpful is I had the time to observe a healthy, working, and longterm loving relationship between two people. No, moms didnt always agree with pops, but he NEVER makes major decisions without first discussing them with her at length, and he certainly isn’t perfect. So without turning this into an ode to my father, or their rlationship, I will say I expect something alot like that. Why? Because it’s been working for over 30 years, and once I’m married I’m really not tryina get divorced.
@Happy Meal,
I didn’t even read the post I’m just happy to see ya:-P
Naw but that’s real talk.
@ESQuared,
“I want to make enough money to be self sufficient and be with out you, i dont need you but i want you, and i earn more than you but its ok because your my man and leader of this house.”
Needing and wanting are TWO different things. I’m not seeing how saying “I don’t need you but I want you” is contradictory.
It’s like buying an effing scented candle. In what world do you NEED a perfumy candle to live? But we womenfolk buy it because we want it and like the way it feels. Same with men*.
*Yes, I am comparing men to glittery candles and yes, I realize that it is X-percentage gay. Whatever, it’s the first thing that came to mind since I went to The Body Shop yesterday.
@Cheekie, because someone will say something to the effect of “i need my man to be (insert character traits here) when in reality thats simply what they want in a man. Its not what they “need”. So your quite correct they are two different things but often in this type of conversation the words are used interchangeably (i wish they werent because that way we could all be more clear but they are)
and its not really that gay…i keep my scented candle game on point (cranberry orange is that ish)because we all know women love the smell goods…..
@ESQuared,
“because someone will say something to the effect of “i need my man to be (insert character traits here) when in reality thats simply what they want in a man. Its not what they “need”. So your quite correct they are two different things but often in this type of conversation the words are used interchangeably (i wish they werent because that way we could all be more clear but they are)”
Gotcha. That is true in a lot of cases.
@ESQuared, Mr. Chi City…is that you?!?!
@Panama Jackson, No sir, ive rocked this name since my very first post on VSB im ESQuared just myself. lol
@Panama Jackson,
That would be hilarious if Mr Chi City started posting here.
@ESQuared,
In the end whoever has the best desicion making ability and money management skills is the leader as it were.
this is a great point. just becuz one makes more money doesn’t mean he/she is qualified at making better decisions (financial or otherwise) pertaining to the home and family.
I come from a home where my mother worked, pulled in a decent income, and my dad did the same. My dad was however the ‘head of household” and that is the same type of dynamic that I gravitated towards for myself.
For me, my man is head of household. And it’s a job that quite simply means that when it comes to the well being of our family, the buck stops with him. So, while we discuss what needs to be done together, ultimately, he gets to make the call. And I had to cede and accept that this is something that a household needs- a commander in chief. And for me to able to do this, I had to trust in his vision for what we want to be as a family. And my responsibility is to ensure that this is not a solo burden- that as a partner, I work with him in figuring out what needs to be done, he signs off and we jointly execute the plan. We are both professionals, he out earns me, yes- but that is not the source of his ‘strength’. If ultimately, I accept the fact that if he and I jointly mess up, regardless of how culpable I was in the mess up, he will be the one who is judged both by society and most importantly, he will also judge himself as having failed to do right by us. So those are the expectations on him, and they come with responsibilities from both me and him in order to make it happen.
@Wanjiru, This right here.
@Mr. Mister, @Wanjiru,
You broke it down so it will always and forever remain brokeded.
@Wanjiru,
Absolutely… I don’t really see how income factors into people’s perception of this dynamic. If I am married to him, regardless; I am not the head. I do not have that burden of carrying the family in the same sense that he does. And I don’t want it, either.
@Wanjiru,
men and their ego’s…. what we do is subconscioulsy guide them to the decisions that we want them to make, and have them think that they are actually the ones that made the decision. it is a very delicate process…. what men don’t know is when they wake up in the morning with great ideas, we have actually been whispering the sh!t in their ears all night whilst they slumber
i kid!
I agree 100%.
I guess a woman doesn’t NEED a man, as she could become a nun, but other than that, she’s lying if or is dumb if she doesn’t think a good brother in her life would increase her happiness by 1000%. Same thing goes for dudes, but you never hear us saying, “I don’t need a woman.” I need WOMEN. multiple, WOMEN.
@undressingHER,
Same thing goes for dudes, but you never hear us saying, “I don’t need a woman.” I need WOMEN. multiple, WOMEN.
LOL.
@undressingHER,
Men don’t say “I dont need a woman” explicitly, but I’ve known plenty of dudes that like to put off meaningful relationships for years and years in favor of chasing careers, hoop dreams and random poon…which kinda makes it look like yall don’t feel like yall need women (note: needing a woman and needing a vagine are not the same)
@Me fail english?, the runaway slave,
I’m soooo glad you’re back.
@miss t-lee,
I second that emotion.
My expectations haven’t changed. I am and will continue to be a traditional woman. I cook in an apron for goodness sakes! LOL I
makemade what some would say is a shyt load of money. I still always dated men who made more. But I live in DC so I realize this might not be possible for a lot of women in other areas.I don’t keep it a secret that I would rather not worry my pretty little head over office politics and BS. I don’t want to worry my little head about anything except running my house. But in the meantime, I’m making due having to worry about those things. But trust, the minute I am with a man who matches my intellect, emotional,and physical needs, can willingly take on the role of head of household, who wants to BE married to ME, game over.
I think women only continue to get more educated (beyond a BS) because the men aren’t asking them to marry. Mens pride isn’t tied to them being the head of a household and providing for their family. I don’t have one corner office having friend who would easily give that shyt up to be married with kids. Unfortunately, there aren’t THAT many Black men who believe they have the SHOULDERS to be the head of household that these women expect them to be. I guess it comes from years of brainwashing by borderline lesbian and feminazi’s.
@Ms. Smart,
Wowzer
@AngelicNastyness,
Just goes to show, different strokes for different folks:-)
@AngelicNastyness, Absolutely. But I get really pissed when women act like my mother’s CHOICE to be a stay-at-home-mother was setting women’s rights back. They don’t seem to understand that the movement was about having the choice. I don’t usually knock women who choose to ‘do it all’. That’s their choice.
@Ms. Smart,
They don’t seem to understand that the movement was about having the choice.
good point! i agree completely with this statement.
@Ms. Smart,
“They don’t seem to understand that the movement was about having the choice. ”
This is SO true.
@Ms. Smart,
I long to be a “Stay at home” mom.. only in my dreams will this actually ever really happen.
@AngelicNastyness, To which part? Or to the entire thing?
I’m interested to hear what Black men have to say about the shoulders comment. It was both a comment and challenge. Rise up Black man! Dayum. But then again, why would they have to when there are so many women willing to be the man of the house?
@Ms. Smart,
The entire thing actually. While I believe that societal influences and the household you were brought up in play a major part in how we view gender, it really is an individual, personal choice. It’s cool that you have such strong convictions about the traditional roles of men and women. I don’t share your beliefs.
Personally I have a master’s degree because I wanted to gain more knowledge and expertise in my field. Not because I’m not married yet. Engaged or not I strive to excel in anything I do. I feel that furthering my education will help me do that.
@AngelicNastyness, YES!! This is my point. It’s about choice. I got my second master’s cus my dude and I broke up. Had we not broken up, I woulda planned a wedding, married his ass and would be on my second kid by now. I had nothing better to do so I decided to take the constructive route in grieving and got another degree. But I never let people get it twisted. I tell them the truth and don’t feel bad about it. Women who make either choice shouldn’t feel bad about it nor should they attack other women for their choices.
BTW, I re-read my initial comment. I didn’t mean ALL women. But this is true for the women in my circle–cus birds of a feather flock together.
@Ms. Smart,
So what factory did you come from, and how do I place my order?
@Dorian G., My mom was a stay-at-home-mom and wife. And no she’s not from the south. She was raised in NYC. And no, we’re not from the islands. We’re just good old African American women. We’re out there. You just don’t hear from us that much cus those women who think they are men are just so damned loud. Quite unbecoming.
@Ms. Smart,
You didn’t answer my question, it was a two parter.
“You just don’t hear from us that much cus those women who think they are men are just so damned loud. ”
Shots fired
@Dorian G., You place your order by having your eyes open and paying attention to what’s really important to the women you date. If you want a career woman, make sure she really is one. If you want a housewife, make sure she really is one. A lot of us know how to pretend to be whatever the apple of our eye wants until the ink on the marriage license is dry. This is why you’ll hear men say their wives let themselves go. I tend to believe those women just stopped doing the things they knew they needed to do to get him down the aisle.
Whew. I’m chatty today.
@Ms. Smart, You just don’t hear from us that much cus those women who think they are men are just so damned loud. Quite unbecoming.
Wow.
@Ms. Smart, I think women only continue to get more educated (beyond a BS) because the men aren’t asking them to marry. Mens pride isn’t tied to them being the head of a household and providing for their family.
I have to respectfully disagree with this. I think different people just make different choices with their lives. It’s wonderful that we have options these days, right?
@pgh muse, Right. It’s about options but, as I just stated above:
BTW, I re-read my initial comment. I didn’t mean ALL women. But this is true for the women in my circle–cus birds of a feather flock together.
@Ms. Smart,
“I guess it comes from years of brainwashing by borderline lesbian and feminazi’s.”
They are reaping what they sow. They get and are getting everything they wanted as a result.
@CPT Callamity, Regretting? I don’t think so. They’re just complaining and not willing to realize how they had a hand in things getting this way.
@Ms. Smart,
I’ll have to disagree with the higher education being an option for the manless broad. I got my masters because it made sense for the career path that I wanted to take. I also have to respectfully disagree with the part that implies that a career is just mark timing until your prince comes along, or feminazi brainwashing. IMO, it’s part and parcel of the things that I wanted for my life. The whole 9- get married, have a fulfilling job, inshallah have the kids before I leave this world. Is this the best option for everybody? Not necessarily, but it is a perfectly valid and honorable option for many women out there.
@Wanjiru, As stated above:
YES!! This is my point. It’s about choice. I got my second master’s cus my dude and I broke up. Had we not broken up, I woulda planned a wedding, married his ass and would be on my second kid by now. I had nothing better to do so I decided to take the constructive route in grieving and got another degree. But I never let people get it twisted. I tell them the truth and don’t feel bad about it. Women who make either choice shouldn’t feel bad about it nor should they attack other women for their choices.
BTW, I re-read my initial comment. I didn’t mean ALL women. But this is true for the women in my circle–cus birds of a feather flock together.
@Ms. Smart,
“BTW, I re-read my initial comment. I didn’t mean ALL women. But this is true for the women in my circle–cus birds of a feather flock together.”
lol, are you gonna cut and paste this to all of your comments for the rest of the day?
@The Champ, I would if I didn’t have to go and get myself ready for an afternoon on the town as a woman of leisure.
@Wanjiru,
inshallah have the kids before I leave this world
1. i love that you use “inshaAllah”
2. i say “inshaAllah” all the time about having kids!! i will be some one’s biological mother if i am so blessed!! otherwise, me and the BMUS will have to work that out
@Gem of the Ocean, With the type of science they have now, you’ll be a bio mom even if your 50! LOL
@Ms. Smart, hey, if Nadya Suleman’s mentally fractured arse can crank ‘em out, why can’t any other woman?
@Ms. Smart,
oooooh no uh uh. i do NOT believe in bioengineering children. if the good Lord did not see it fit for my body to naturally conceive a child in my womb, then i am not going to go tampering with my machinery, ya dig??
and being a 50yo mother is not at all appealing! ewwww. besides, there are sooooo many unwanted children in this country (and yes, the USofA got em too–not just african and asian countries!! lol). i’d happily consider adoption (hopefully hubby was with it too) if my a*s turned out to be barren.
@Ms. Smart,
I have a couple of questions.
“Men’s pride isn’t tied to them being the head of a household and providing for their family.”
What makes you say this? What exactly do you think OUR pride is tied to?
And
“Unfortunately, there aren’t THAT many Black men who believe they have the SHOULDERS to be the head of household that these women expect them to be.”
Again, why do you say this? Is this from a personal perspective of the black men you’ve been around or have you personally witness this type of cowardice behavior in them?
Those are mighty broad assumptions made about a whole race of men…
When I hear some women and media outlets paint such small views of black men it often makes me laugh. Not because it’s funny, but laughter in a way that you laugh at racist people because of their ignorance (and I not calling you ignorant).
What I don’t think a lot of people realize is the psychological implications of constant belittlement. I liken it to an abusive relationship…mentally abusive. I’m no psychologist, but the notion of negative conditioning is real and there are strong minded brothas that will not let societal views dictate them and there are weak-minded brothas who will. Just like a person in an abusive relationship constantly belittles their mate…without any positive upliftment the abused partner starts to believe it…even if they don’t want to. I could go even further into how this negativity influences little black boys and the expectations they derive from such influences, but I’d be getting off track here…
@AkShone, “Men’s pride isn’t tied to them being the head of a household and providing for their family.”
The number of men who aren’t married and the number who believe in the roommate style marriages led me to this statement.
“Unfortunately, there aren’t THAT many Black men who believe they have the SHOULDERS to be the head of household that these women expect them to be.”
Notice, I didn’t say there aren’t any who believe they have the shoulders. This goes well beyond my personal experience. You actually described my rationale when you said, “I’m no psychologist, but the notion of negative conditioning is real and there are strong minded brothas that will not let societal views dictate them and there are weak-minded brothas who will.”
Fortunately, I suppose I am a psychologist–at least according to that useless piece of paper. I know all about conditioning. What you just laid out was exactly what I’m saying. The WEAK minded ones are most of the ones who don’t believe have the shoulders. There are others who have the shoulders but are taking the easy route out by clinging to the notion of the white man holding them down as an excuse as to why they can’t step up to the plate. Fortunately, these men usually end up with women who are OK with all of this. Bully for them.
As an aside, I’m working on a project right now. It should span the next few months. I’d love to pick your brain about these issues.
@Ms. Smart,
“There are others who have the shoulders but are taking the easy route out by clinging to the notion of the white man holding them down as an excuse as to why they can’t step up to the plate.”
Eh, I see what you’re saying, but I don’t think that this is the initial response to what any brotha uses as to why he can’t get ahead…there could be a myriad of reasons.
“As an aside, I’m working on a project right now. It should span the next few months. I’d love to pick your brain about these issues.”
Sure, I’m all about projects and sh*t…
time4sumakshone@gmail.com
@Ms. Smart, Unfortunately, there aren’t THAT many Black men who believe they have the SHOULDERS to be the head of household that these women expect them to be.
what you talking about willis? every black man has the shoulders for it. society just holds us back. didn’t you watch Black in America? the only successful dudes are light skint. and even then he had to get up at like 4am.
just ain’t no opportunities to be that kind of head of household.
jokes aside, i think most men would love to be able to be the sole provider of a household like that. i just dont think that its as feasbile today as it was years ago. who wouldnt want to have a family that looked towards you as their knight in shining armor.
@Panama Jackson, Snarky bastard!
I’m not just talking about money. I’m talking about being the household spokesperson. Sure we’ll make decisions together but I want the dude who is going to go out and stand at the podium. I don’t want to do that. I want to stand beside him but slightly behind his right shoulder–real close to the heart. Is that so damned wrong?
@Ms. Smart, what the hell family are you in where folks had to make speeches at the podium. lol.
so you’re less hillary and more michelle.
@Panama Jackson, Podium was an analogy. Yes, I’m more Michelle than Hilary but I absolutely adore what I have coined to be the Hilary Slouch (Blah, blah, blah, lean forward, make point, lean back real hard like WHAT!)
@Ms. Smart,
Unfortunately, there aren’t THAT many Black men who believe they have the SHOULDERS to be the head of household that these women expect them to be.
thing is, since all of your friends are making boatloads of money (which im gonna assume because of the birds of the feather thing), just from a numbers perspective there arent going to be a ton of available men (black or otherwise) who would be able to match or exceed incomes.
so, in this instance, i dont know if its about “men believing” as much as its about there just not being that many guys alive (and available, and attractive, and attracted to your friends) who can possibly meet those expectations.
i’m not suggesting that people change expectations, but i don’t know if certain relationship-wanting people realize that their expectations will basically doom them to singledom
@The Champ, Yo, I worked (cus I’m unemployed) in education. Nobody thought I made as much as I did. AND I will only say I made a boatload anonymously. My mother doesn’t even know how much I was making. Having said all that, I have NEVER had a man ask or even guess (to me) how much I made. I once brought it up to a dude I was
engaged todumb enough to consider marrying. And he took it as an insult.As stated before, I live in the DC area so I recognize that where finance is concerned we have a different set of options. Also, this isn’t just about FINANCES. As stated above, I want someone to stand at the podium. Someone who is capable and confident enough to do that. And in the times when they aren’t confident, I’ll be that woman wearing a full on cheerleader outfit and bedazzled spankies with ‘Go ‘His name here‘ across them.
@Ms. Smart,
Your honesty is refreshing and reassuring in a time when so many women in your situation pollute conversations with B.S. I respect you for this.
Men do want to be married, however, many are not where they want to be or they are not getting what they believe they deserve.
Bond.
@BlkBond, Those other women aren’t talking BS. They sincerely believe what they are saying. That’s their reality. What I have stated above is mine. *shrug*
@Ms. Smart,
Well your reality seems more realistic, lol.
Bond.
I agree there has been a shift but not necessarily in the way the post describes… women have always made the decisions on the home front and the men were primarily bread winners. That’s it as Chris Rock said .. bring home the check and get the big piece of chicken. Now men are required to do other things at home, to be an active participant in the raising and taking care of home in addition to being a bread winner however they are no longer expected to be the only or primary bread winner w hich I dont think is a bad thing its when women take it to far and men cant let go of archaic role assignment that it becomes a problem.
@shay_d_lady,
That’s it as Chris Rock said .. bring home the check and get the big piece of chicken.
lol, he also said if the kids can’t read, thats mommas fault, but if the kids cant read because theres no lights in the house, thats on the dad.
I grew up in a household where my mother made more than my father. This “independent woman” talk is always funny to me. Maybe it’s just in my circle but the dudes(most are professionals) I know don’t have a problem with a woman making more than him. It’s only a problem if the woman throws it back in his face. I think that men that have problems with independent women are men that define their manhood by their money, women they’ve bagged, and the ability to feed, cloth, put a roof over a grown woman. Maybe I’m different but I expect a woman to be independent. If you are an adult you are not doing anything special by handling your own responsibilities. You’re an adult it’s what you are supoosed to do. The problem I see is with women being independent at their own convenience. Or women expecting men to be responsible for EVERYTHING even their own well being. I don’t understand why is it so hard for men and women to be teammates. Sometimes the man is team captain sometimes it’s the woman. It all depends on the situation.
@Humble_One,
If you are a guy, I’m puttin my bid in.
I’d like to put an e-ring on it.
@AngelicNastyness,
I am a man. And the bid is in consideration.
@Humble_One,
I will up the ante on said bid by stating in addition to my progressive views on gender roles. . . I can make a meeaan mac and cheese. . . and I love football.:-P
@AngelicNastyness,
You make good mac and cheese and you like football!? And still single? I don’t find too much of that in my city.
@Humble_One
Yessir. and maybe you need to relocate. . . Although I am willing to admit my city has it’s fair share of birds and mudducks.smh
@AngelicNastyness,
I am SERIOUSLY considering relocating although I don’t want to. I stay in Detroit so I think my city has more than its fair share of birds and mudducks than yours.
@Humble_One,
Welp I hail from the home of waist length weaves/poetic justice braids so. . . yea. it’s your call.
@Humble_One, *slow clap*
that just happened…LOL
@shay_d_lady,
lmao yesssssss!!
@Humble_One,
That’s what I’m talm ’bout.
@Humble_One,
“Maybe I’m different but I expect a woman to be independent. If you are an adult you are not doing anything special by handling your own responsibilities. You’re an adult it’s what you are supoosed to do.”
I sincerely hope you’re not TOO different. If a man wants a woman who can’t otherwise take care of herself, he basically wants a child. Independent women have always been there, it’s just now becoming a “trendy fad”. And it’s a trendy fad that works because we’re constantly talking about it.
@Cheekie, i’m like Biggie, “b*tches i’m like brainless, guns i like ‘em stainless…”
okay, thats not true but i figured we haven’t had a biggie quote in a long time.
@Humble_One,
Yup! We should sign the VSB Declaration where props will no longer be given for doing stuff that we should do (take care of ourselves, as we should have been doing in the first place). I also agree with you that ‘independent’ as pertains to women has become a shorthand (and IMO), a misnomer for ballbreakers. It ain’t the same, never was.
@Wanjiru,
Yuuup (c) Trey Songz
Did I just quote trey songz?? Sheesh. Long day
@AngelicNastyness, the fact that you attribute the long form of “yes” to Trey Songz makes it along day…not the actual quoting of trey songz.
lol…smiley face.
@Panama Jackson,
Yea it was really his voice that popped into my head when I readin the post.smh
@Humble_One,
I think that men that have problems with independent women are men that define their manhood by their money, women they’ve bagged, and the ability to feed, cloth, put a roof over a grown woman
i guess the next question is: what exactly defines “manhood”? not adulthood, but what specific characteristics should be synonymous with being a man?
I’ve never dated a chick that made more than me, but in all honesty I’ll gladly accept that “burden”.
I get to stack bread while she pays for dates and outings….ssssssssssshhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiit sign me up
@Dorian G.,
lol, thing is, if she’s paying for all the dates that also means she’s probably choosing venues, and i can only take so much “experimental” and “exotic” food without pics on the menu.
@The Champ, shoot, I wish I knew the “experimental/exotic” food girl. Too many women I come across don’t wanna or have excuses not to eat anything except places they’re already up on (which makes you wonder how the hell they’ll ever expand).
Me, no pork, beef, shellfish, or catfish, and I’m with whatever.
@Stuff Ghetto People Like,
interesting, i can’t find many men who like trying new foods and new restaurants. i always get the guy who does chains or places “he knows”.
i LOVE going to new restaurants and trying new foods (altho there’s plenty of stuff i wont/dont eat, i’m still fairly open).
@Stuff Ghetto People Like,
Well damn. You just exxed out a buncha stuff and getting mad at ol girl for doing the same.
*orders extra ostrich meat for VSB BBQ*
@Me fail english?, the runaway slave, I didn’t X out whole cuisines like those aforementioned, just those particular animals for myself. If she eats beef or shellfish, that’s on her.
And I’ve had ostrich before.
@Dorian G.,
*gets west cost on y’all for a second*
You knooooooooooooooow!
most of these women allow their men to be men HUH? How does one allow a man to do that which he’s already designed to do? I mean depending on how well he was trained up in the way he should go will cause a variance in how equipped he is to actually lead. The whole disgust for ‘Independent Woman’ backlash is ridiculous. I feel very confident in speaking for the majority of the women I know when I say that most of that independence was borne out of necessity. It’s fabulous to be self sufficient but the picture painted of women with hardened shells who won’t let a man step up, is mostly a crock of bull. If fellas were falling out the sky ready, willing and able to lead women would be running around tryna catch em before they hit the ground. But that’s not what we’re dealing with here. There are lotsa men who are ill prepared and lacking the desire to be concerned about anyone or anything beyond themselves. Refer back to one of the initial comments on how they’re spoiled.
So the question becomes, why should women follow behind a man who has no vision? She shouldn’t. But for those that do have a vision even if they have nothing else, they will find a perfect complement IF they allow themselves to do so. They should stop being intimidated because of their own projections that the finances are the totality of what’s going to keep her. If you come across these chicks, it’s usually apparent, but many men overlook this b/c of her (insert superficial/physical feature of choice here). Then months/years down the road, they wanna get upset with her for being exactly who she showed herself to be early on. Here’s a hint: If you had to buy her a drink to get 5 minutes of conversation out of her, you’ll be buying her attention for the duration.
I have an antiquated expectation to wanna wear the skirt, d@mmit! Just gotta find the ride dude to wear the pants…
@bittersweet’s baby, say word.
i follow you on this. But the backlash more so isnt for the independent woman or even the woman that is self sufficient. it IS however for the woman that is conviently independent when it suits their fancy.
@ESQuared,
“it IS however for the woman that is conviently independent when it suits their fancy.”
I’m intrigued. What do mean?
Because like bittersweet’s baby said, the independence is wholly out of necessity.
@ESQuared, im gonna follow up because i realize i wasnt clear. When it comes to finances or what have you women are independent. (ive got this)
Cool im not knocking anyone for that.
But when you try to flip the script and go all feminine because theirs a mouse in the room, spider on the wall, or because the trash needs taking out, because the grass needs cutting, or you need an oil change…
is STRAIGHT bull.
@ESQuared,
“But when you try to flip the script and go all feminine because theirs a mouse in the room, spider on the wall, or because the trash needs taking out, because the grass needs cutting, or you need an oil change…
is STRAIGHT bull.”
Ah, I see ya now. I do think, though, that the “independent” label is more about finances than anything else. When women say they can “take care of themselves”, they’re usually not thinking about killing roaches, they’re thinking about paying bills.
@Cheekie,
lmao indeed.
lemme say this tho — i do NOT like bugs. they make my skin crawl just thinking of their gross weird lookin legs touching me. and when you smash them their nasty guts splatter everywhere. eecckkk!!
i mean i WILL kill a bug if i’m the only one around. but if some one else (hell, man OR woman) is there who is willing, then by all means… lol
@Gem of the Ocean,
You are ME with the above comment.
@bittersweet’s baby,
“Well, I respect your ambition, Willay, but you got to have visssshhhuuun!”
Sorry, sorry, had a Willie Dynamite moment there.
@Brandon St. Randy,
That dudes claws would give Wolverine a run for his money.
@Humble_One, Yeah, Pearl was on some other. Ima get me a red leather overcoat with the tornado mink strips for the winter though. And a Stankin’ Lincoln’ Continental with side pipes
…Don’t foget to practice Willie’s walk, or they gonna think you fakin’, lol.
@bittersweet’s baby,
So the question becomes, why should women follow behind a man who has no vision? She shouldn’t. But for those that do have a vision even if they have nothing else, they will find a perfect complement IF they allow themselves to do so. They should stop being intimidated because of their own projections that the finances are the totality of what’s going to keep her. If you come across these chicks, it’s usually apparent, but many men overlook this b/c of her (insert superficial/physical feature of choice here). Then months/years down the road, they wanna get upset with her for being exactly who she showed herself to be early on. Here’s a hint: If you had to buy her a drink to get 5 minutes of conversation out of her, you’ll be buying her attention for the duration.
I agree totally. I got a homeboy thats married and miserable. He could have been the posterboy for men with this mindset. Now he is upset because he doesn’t get any support and has to do everything. On the flip side women should question any man that has this mindset. A lot of men want to do this so he can be in control or have power over you. He takes care of you in this way so he can do whatever he wants. While he is paying all the bills he is also wilding out behind your back.
@Humble_One, I agree totally. I got a homeboy thats married and miserable. He could have been the posterboy for men with this mindset. Now he is upset because he doesn’t get any support and has to do everything. On the flip side women should question any man that has this mindset. A lot of men want to do this so he can be in control or have power over you. He takes care of you in this way so he can do whatever he wants. While he is paying all the bills he is also wilding out behind your back.
Amen to this whole comment.
@bittersweet’s baby,
If fellas were falling out the sky ready, willing and able to lead women would be running around tryna catch em before they hit the ground.
and…
If you had to buy her a drink to get 5 minutes of conversation out of her, you’ll be buying her attention for the duration.
you said that!!! omg there are so many great points being made today. yall VSBers got me AMENing all up in thru my workspace.
oh and this…
I have an antiquated expectation to wanna wear the skirt, d@mmit! Just gotta find the ride dude to wear the pants…
just becuz i wanna wear the skirt dont mean i won’t wear the pants underneath. if it has to be done, so be it.
@bittersweet’s baby,
“I know when I say that most of that independence was borne out of necessity”
some of it is, and some of it came out of the sexual revolution of the late 60′s-mid 70′s.
@The Champ,
Bring out all the statistics in the world, and it still boils down to the same thing. Women are stuck in a Catch 22. Either they’re labeled as ‘thinking they don’t need a man’ or they’re considered gold diggers if there’s any kind of financial ties. At the end of the day, we all want someone to lean into and hide away from our troubles. All these chips on shoulders just makes it more difficult than it has to be.
I’m with @humble_one. My most recent girlfriend made way more than me, and it was never a problem. Granted, I was in grad school half the time, but there was never an issue of confused gender roles. I set the tone as far as where we were gonna go, what we were gonna do, and what time I would pick her up. As far as entertainment expenses, I paid for most at first and it went to 50/50 a few months in, and then once I was in school she paid more. Worked great. I never felt like there was any competition between us to earn, probably because we didn’t live above our means. The girlfriend before her had family bank, but you never would have known it until you went to her condo overlooking the Potomac. Same story: As a man, I set the tone, and money was never an issue. She also drank cheap liquor so that made it easier. Part of the reason the gender roles and money have gotten so big among black couples is because we insist on leaving above our means. When you put two couples’ income together, a lot of times, they don’t view it as an opportunity to save or ramp up investments but as an opportunity to live this ni**er-rich lifestyle and so by putting stress on the bank accounts, you end up putting stress on the relationship.
@Brandon St. Randy,
Part of the reason the gender roles and money have gotten so big among black couples is because we insist on leaving above our means. When you put two couples’ income together, a lot of times, they don’t view it as an opportunity to save or ramp up investments but as an opportunity to live this ni**er-rich lifestyle and so by putting stress on the bank accounts, you end up putting stress on the relationship.
good points and sh*t
@Brandon St. Randy,
“Part of the reason the gender roles and money have gotten so big among black couples is because we insist on leaving above our means. When you put two couples’ income together, a lot of times, they don’t view it as an opportunity to save or ramp up investments but as an opportunity to live this ni**er-rich lifestyle and so by putting stress on the bank accounts, you end up putting stress on the relationship.”
That’s real.
@Brandon St. Randy,
“I set the tone as far as where we were gonna go, what we were gonna do, and what time I would pick her up. ”
This is another reason there’s a disconnect. not all women are fronting about not wanting to be led. Some of us have very different ideas of what it means to let a man be a man and the above quote is case in point. My man is the man in our rel’ship (lol, duh! What else would he be? The cat lady??) but if he said some isht like this we’d have a mf’in issue, as if I dont have opinions or preferences that count…. I see it works for you and your lady but this is the “respect” issue I was getting at upthread.
@Me fail english?, the runaway slave, See I don’t see how you as a man (the general you) could be in a relationship and not set the tone. Doesn’t mean I didn’t do the things she wanted to do as well, but typically if we’re just going out somewhere on a non-special night, I’ll pick the spot, I’ll come over with my car all clean, pick her up and we’ll go. That’s the way it should work. How does a first date go? Man picks the spot, picks the woman up, and pays. That’s how we roll. It sounds like what you’re talking about is trying to assert yourself in the relationship in a non-productive way, which I’m sure you didn’t mean to come out that way.
@Brandon St. Randy,
“I set the tone as far as where we were gonna go, what we were gonna do, and what time I would pick her up. ”
This is another reason there’s a disconnect. not all women are fronting about not wanting to be led. Some of us have very different ideas of what it means to let a man be a man and the above quote is case in point. My man is the man in our rel’ship (lol, duh! What else would he be? The cat lady??) but if he said some isht like this we’d have a mf’in issue, as if I dont have opinions or preferences that count…. I see it works for you and your lady but this is the “respect” issue I was getting at upthread.
Heeyyy, I didnt hit the button twice…I dont think
@Brandon St. Randy,
That’s makin a helluva lotta sense…
“Thing is, women still expect that stuff today (to some degree) except they make sure to let you know that they don’t NEED you to do it for them because they are more than able to do it all. That last one is probably the most interesting to me.”
(Disclaimer time) This is certainly not in EVERY case, but I think the above attitude is sometimes a defense mechanism. Most Black women have either experienced or witnessed a no-good brotha not owning up to their responsibilities. After being burned, of course you ain’t gonna stick your hand in the fire. It’s kinda the same theory with the “something new” thang. It’s in reaction to eligible brothas disregarding us. If a woman is tired of her man not having a job and providing for her like he said he would? Eff him, she’ll just do it by herself.
And of course with these hard economic times, ain’t nobody got TIME to wait on her knight to come Fabio-gallaping on a horse to save her. Waiting results in nothing; you have to take action.
That said, even though providing for yourself and being independent are components of being a strong woman, I think women do need to open up and not be so hardened to love and care from another person. No one truly goes at it alone, no matter how it appears.
It takes a strong woman to take care of herself, but it takes an even stronger woman to allow herself to be vulnerable.
@Cheekie,
“That said, even though providing for yourself and being independent are components of being a strong woman, I think women do need to open up and not be so hardened to love and care from another person. No one truly goes at it alone, no matter how it appears.
It takes a strong woman to take care of herself, but it takes an even stronger woman to allow herself to be vulnerable.”
I knew you was good people.
@miss t-lee,
“I knew you was good people.”
Aw, thanks, girl. I try. Ditto, by the way.
I can say that I work as hard as I do and try to be the best woman possible:
1. for myself
2. for my family
3. so that i am a viable asset to the person that chooses to marry me
far too often we take for granted that these hardworking black women do want the family, the house, the husband who is her protector. Personally, I would rather not handle some of the ‘man duties’ once I am married. I currently own my own home but I hate taking out the trash, worrying over bills, fixing stuff. I cant wait to have a husband to do all that. In return .. I will work, cook, clean, be a good friend/supporter, mother (whenever that happens)but I run shat all day in the office I just wanna go home and let my husband (whoever he may be one day) take charge and run the home. The only PROBLEM is finding a man who can actually live up to taking charge.
@jolie fatale,
The only PROBLEM is finding a man who can actually live up to taking charge.
do you think that your professional life has any positive or negative influence in this regard?
@jolie fatale,
Good Point. I’ve run into some dudes who feel the same as you. They run sh1t at work all day. When they come home they dont necessarily wanna be ship captain. They kinda just wanna be left alone…
My personal opinion
Sucessfully independent black women need to exercise their options (period) I forsee a multiracial family boom in the upcoming decades.
@Blue Skies, i agree with you. don’t think it will happen. but i agree.
@Panama Jackson,
me too and sh*t.
ok, 2 things.
1. what is wrong with an “independent woman”? why is it a bad thing to be an “independent woman”? seriously, are men checking for the daddy’s girls with princess syndrome who have never had to do anything for themselves at all? The reality is that any single woman with a job, a home, and takes care of her own finances is an independent woman because she is an adult doing what she is supposed to do as an adult, and she is not leaning on others to provide for her. So, let’s stop downing independent women. A man should not feel threatened by an adult woman exhibiting adult behavior. I agree with Humble_one that men that have problems with independent women are men that define their manhood by their money, women they’ve bagged, and the ability to feed, cloth, put a roof over a grown woman.
2. as for relationships, every single professional woman i know is ready to unload that independent status, and share her life with a man who doesn’t define his manhood by his salary. I have several friends who want to be housewives, work from home, and take care of the home while their husbands are the sole bread winners. I also know several women who have no intention of giving up their careers, but is ready to have the type of relationship Wanjiru describes where the husband and wife work as a team, and the husband is the quarterback of that team, having the main responsibiltiy of advancing the team down the field.
@N.I.A. naturally,
what is wrong with an “independent woman”? why is it a bad thing to be an “independent woman”? seriously, are men checking for the daddy’s girls with princess syndrome who have never had to do anything for themselves at all?
I was in a relationship with a daddy’s girl with princess syndrome and I promised myself I would NEVER EVER make that mistake again. These women work best with men that have issues with independent women.
@N.I.A. naturally,
Tabernacle!
@N.I.A. naturally,
@Wanjiru,
grrrr… I meant to agree wholeheardelty to where you say:
“The reality is that any single woman with a job, a home, and takes care of her own finances is an independent woman because she is an adult doing what she is supposed to do as an adult, and she is not leaning on others to provide for her. So, let’s stop downing independent women. A man should not feel threatened by an adult woman exhibiting adult behavior.”
@N.I.A. naturally,
The relationship described here is what I’m looking for, and I also agree with the rest of your post. Right now, I’d settle for a ninja that can read, though.
I kid, I kid.
*buries head in shame* Sort of.
@N.I.A. naturally,
spoken like a true Spelman woman. go ‘head sis!!
@N.I.A. naturally,
Taking this football analogy a step further I feel that the husband can be the QB while the wife is his spoiled, emotional wide receiver a la T.O, Chad “his momma named him chad I’ma call him Chad” Johnson and all other feminine tendencies having WRs in NFL.
j/k
I want me and my hubby to be like Montana and Rice:-)
@AngelicNastyness,
Dont u be talmbout sum Ocho Cinco! (pronounced OCHO SAY-nco)
@N.I.A. naturally,
How did I miss this post from one of the greats! I’m not tryna put men and women on an even keel in every aspect on some unnatural, hyper-feminist type stuff, but why does independence get such a bad rap?
When ambitious men say their “married” to their careers, cars or other inanimate, intangible stuff nobody talks about “what happend to theses new-fangled ninjas?!” despite the fact that I bet most of our grandads never said no BS like that. Everybody grew up and got more self-sufficient/self-interested, not just the fairer sex.
I laugh @ the comments about men being intimidated or upset with independent women. There isn’t anything wrong with it…just STFU. You’re an adult, be an adult. Your titles stink.
I have no problem with independent women, I just side eye those that are likened to wear drawers with dyck holes and think that it’s appealing.
The woman in the picture seems to be smelling her finger and enjoying it.
yo can we get some odiogo over here? Please Lizinator? If it ain’t too much to ask.
http://vimeo.com/2693267
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzTuOQRTE0I
@Everyone,
I would like to contest that this spoiling of black men by black women derives from the lingering female complex to understand and discern that her man is under attack by the very country that he inhabits. Black women do not want their men to be consumed by the very land and conditions which they inherit.
It’s the ‘baby’ complex meaning that women call their men baby because they want to nurse and nurture black men from the corrupt constraint of this world, this being black mothers and mates whom have found success(this is also why you repulse at us black men also). You already know the playing field is unfair this is why you don’t allow they to play or play with them at all. This attitude is adverse to the relationship beween black men and women. This is why the phrase ‘crib’ was so prevalent, because you’ve accepted to love and to fuck babies your ‘babies’(black men).
@The Hallway,
john singleton circa 2001, is that you??
@Gem of the Ocean,
Idk what that means. So Im guessin Im not.
@The Hallway,
Your post sounds like the intro to the movie “Baby Boy” (2001) directed by John Singleton
@Me fail english?, the runaway slave,
Now I got I hated Baby Boy BTW.
Yes I think he gets the intro from Frances Welsing Cress theories though
LOL. Well if it’s any consolation you sound like the more articulate paraphrasing..
You joke, but I think this is largely spot-on
“or maybe all the attractive women have men already leaving nothing but busted heffas to fight for the guys who really dont’ want to settle down anyway.”
I can’t name more than 3 fly, with-it black women whose love lives are substantially different from what they’d like them to be. The vast majority of the appealing women I know past the age of about 26 or 27 have exactly the love lives they want.
@Scipio Africanus, so you think there’s much more to it than anything. like monk said, these chicks are independent by default and not by choice?
i actually wrote a post years about this. the washington post did this thing about single black women and why they were single. my post centered around the fact that men have eyes and are largely more shallow in the attractiveness sense than women are.
and i do think a lot of that is the case.
@Scipio Africanus,
Quiet as kept…
“Your titles stink. ”
So does your underwear (pronounced: draws), but you want us to clean ‘em dontcha?
*sigh*. That (up above) was in reply to CPT.
@Cheekie, no. some of y’all can’t wash laundry worth a lick.
@T. Troy Stewart,
Bwahahahah!
When I actually see or experience a woman who would actually wash my drawers, then I would take everything back…until then…
@T. Troy Stewart,
??
Who are these women who can’t wash clothes? Because if it’s THAT hard to get a stain off some draws, well then, um, it’s time for a new pair. lol
@Cheekie,
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Cheekie, I ain’t just talking about dirty drawls…I’m talking about no separation of the clothes, mixing reds with whites and dedicates with the jeans and…yeah, let me stop before The Champ comes in with his ghey percentage counter LOL
@T. Troy Stewart,
Wow, that’s um…well…
*in Miss Millie from The Color Purple-voice* That’s a shame.
@T. Troy Stewart,
who does this, T. Troy?
@T. Troy Stewart,
yo fa real, i just had this conversation a few weeks ago with my co-workers. they were lookin at me like i had 3 breasts when i was talkin about separating my clothes!!! i was like, ppl don’t do this?? this is RARE?? wtf??
@T. Troy Stewart,
This is sad.
Chicks that don’t know how to do proper laundry? Ay dios mio.
@T. Troy Stewart,
U mean there are women walkin’ around in pink-ish white shirts…. with bleached black (now beige) trouser socks ??
TRAAAAAAAAAAAAAGEDY
Fire their mamas!
@T. Troy Stewart,
After a few hours, I’m STILL perplexed there are chicks that don’t separate their clothes.
Like, do they want to wear their clothes more than once? lol
there are some men and women out there who don’t know how to do anything domestic including laundry
@T. Troy Stewart,
co-sign. It’s like many laud themselves for being about to be independent and feminine, when do not have a grasp of either. As noted above their is a hypocrisy in the independent movement by women who want to tell you how much they make, how much they do not need you, etc.
There is also the ones who proclaim to be so ‘old-school’ but can’t cook, clean, wash, have no sense of compassion, etc.
So then the men just say “WTF?!?”, I’ll just stay single/ play the field, because they do not have it together.
Jill of all trades, master of none.
Bond. BlkBond.
@BlkBond,
lol. I’ve also noticed alot of women use “old school” as pig latin for “I dont wanna do shet with myself once Im married”
On another note, isn’t one of life’s greatest inconsistencies the fact that on the domestic front, “good wives”, are supposed to spend the rest of their lives undoing what husbands and their parents worked so hard to instill before we met them? Up to his late 20s, he was in intensive classes of having to know where his dirty socks went to, his meals came from, that windex is for windows etc. and my job as a wife, is to unlearn him of all of that.
Sort of…
Good Topic
Its complex well from my P.O.V. my parents have been married longer than ive been alive and they still are so I learned how 2 people can co-exist in the same location for decades with hot grease being thrown and fryin pans upside the head.
Sad thing is im jus like my pops (simple, traditional, manly, he does the dirty work -take out trash, whip me n my bruhs ashes etc). you neva wanted pops ta cook cause it would end up bein some shii u coulda did yaself exp. hotdogs.
Moms is strait old skoo and they dont make um like that no more- she from tha country high yella pretty girl that takes care of biz. She always hada job even when pops didnt, alwayd did laundry and cooked and cleaned untill i got tall enuf to hold a broom. She was like super woman and pops was jus like our body guard. he made sure no body fuqed with us.
Even tho my moms was the bread winner pops had the final say and if he foot was down end of story except if i begged my mom and she had special powers and somehow in the mornin pops would wake up feelin good and agree to whateva i asked.
Long story short if poth parties respect eachother its all good if ya chick is gonna kick u when you down she aint a real one. A real one would have ya back thru it all. And a real dude will do whateva it takes to keep his house safe/sane and make sure everyone is takin care of to their best abilities. All comes down to respect.
@BLUNTBLAZER, Even tho my moms was the bread winner pops had the final say and if he foot was down end of story except if i begged my mom and she had special powers and somehow in the mornin pops would wake up feelin good and agree to whateva i asked.
Hahaha! Moms DO have special powers *wink wink*. This makes me laugh cuz I respect that old school dynamic. Men like to growl, but behind closed doors, it’s a different story.
@pgh muse,
thas the secret to “stayin together”
@BLUNTBLAZER, Sad thing is im jus like my pops
Why is this a sad thing?
@pgh muse,
hard to find a chick like moms
@BLUNTBLAZER,
this is prob the first comment you’ve left that i wasn’t smh-ing and wanting to tell you to SADDOWN. good job, BB.
@Gem of the Ocean,
I was fitna say! LOL we >here<!
But yeah, Bluntblazer..why is that a sad thing?
@Gem of the Ocean,
LOL. BB done good.
@Cheekie, LMAO, i was reading it the whole time incredulous and ish, BB did good.
*waving @ BB, waddup bestcoast!
@Gem of the Ocean,
I think this is the most standard english he’s used since he been on here.
@Happy Meal,
fuq yo muthfuqin standard english shii lol
@BLUNTBLAZER,
LMAO
Lesson learned: You can take BB to the water bucket of standard English, but you can’t make him drink.
@BLUNTBLAZER, @Happy Meal, and @Cheekie,
dead. dead. and dead!!
@BLUNTBLAZER,
Well played.
@BLUNTBLAZER,
lol betcha won’t say it to my face!
@BLUNTBLAZER,
Standing. Ovation.
I use to go hard for the “Independent Woman” movement. I had the perfect role model for the IWM… my mother! She wasn’t always a single mother but after my father died she quickly transformed into the bionic woman. I swear she could do any and everything and thats no lie. I’ve watched this woman of 5’4 move huge pieces of furniture along with many other incredible feats. She never broke a sweat and never asked a man for anything!
I admired her strength but at the same time I’ve loathed her struggle. I desperately wanted a man in her life to help her with the many responsibilities she thought she was forever indebted to. Without even realizing it I found myself becoming more and more like my mother. I’ve carried groceries allll the way to my dorm once turning down offers to help from nice young men because I had that ” I got this, I don’t need no help” mentality.
Weeelll bump that! I’m independent but NOT that damn independent. Why not let a man be a man! I can still be a strong independent woman while letting my man take on some responsibilities. If you want to pay for dinner… go head boo do you! At the end of the day I know I could pay for it and then some! lol
@GEELA,
lol, i just wanna see a tiny woman move a couch without sweating
@The Champ, you just described my mama!….be up at 3 in the morning moving sh*t…you wake up and don’t know whose house you’re in because she done moved the couch into the living room! LMAO
@Smiley Face,
lmao i did this when i moved into my 3rd apt in pgh (i’m now on #4 lol). i couldn’t sleep so around 3a i got up and arranged all the furniture in the living room (couch, tv stand, heavy-for-no-reason coffee table, desk), moved the boxes to areas that weren’t in the walk ways. my roommate and friend woke up the next morning like “what the heck happened??” like some moving fairy came in with a wand lol
@GEELA,
LOL It don’t count if they wait til you bout 20 ft from the door to offer
My expectations haven’t changed. When/If I do get married, I expect my husband to be the man of the house…regardless if he makes more than me.
I actually can’t stand when DJs ask independent women; those born before 1985; those who put their deodorant on their left armpit first; those who plan on getting a Maxwell polish after the club to wave their hands in the air! Ni99a what? And risk spilling my vodka & cran/blue M.F.’er? Puh-leeze!!! Anywho, at 26, I feel a man should be able to put 2 & 2 together (which gives you “22″) and see that with me being employed full-time and living on my own…I am independent. Actions always speack louder….Ion’t have to brag about any of my accomplishments.
“GUCCI”
BTW…I do put my deodorant on my left armpit first. Or is it “under” the armpit? And I prefer White Castles chicken rings after the club. Good day!
@K to the…, is there ever a wrong time to yell out “gucci”?
methinks not.
@Panama Jackson,
There’s NEVER a wrong time to yell it. I’m gonna yell it at the end of my conference call next week at the gig.
@K to the…,
I actually can’t stand when DJs ask independent women
i cant either. namely becuz i’m not all that independent. i mean hell, i’m a student and live just below the poverty line. my parents still help may my car note and insurance.
so basically i just can’t raise my hands!
@Gem of the Ocean,
Since I only pay my most necessary bills (car note, rent, student loans) and bf pays all the rest plus the pocket money I raise a single hand at a 45 degree angle and even then the wave is lackluster. That makes me morally superior to the women who live with their grandmas but wave their hands full mast and full force.
@K to the…,
“I actually can’t stand when DJs ask independent women; those born before 1985; those who put their deodorant on their left armpit first; those who plan on getting a Maxwell polish after the club to wave their hands in the air! ”
Besides, this just perpetuates people to blow their dancing mustiness around, which is NOT cool in any form.
@Cheekie,
No, it is not!
Somebody may have said this, but:
This society calls for 2 incomes. I live in the DMV (PG county) – a decent 1-2 bedroom apartment will run you about $1400/month (yikes!) and the cost of living is growing at twice the rate of income. It takes 2 to make this thing go right. I’m proud of my accomplishments as a single person, but I’m grateful to have a man that can fill in the gaps and whose gaps I fill in. Yin and Yang.
@Lil’T,
**Diva Dust ™ all up and through this**
@Lil’T,
“This society calls for 2 incomes. ”
This calls for a “END OF DISCUSSION”. Because that above is the bottom line. Breadwinner is plural nowadays, my people.
I like the phrase, “let’s get high”
Sup good folks? Back on tha scene. Last few months have been CRAZY 4 me. Travelin alot and haven’t been able to really dedicate any time to the net. Shouts 2 everybody Champ, PJack, Gem (e-boo?), BBMO, Nicky, DorianG, Miss T-lee, SouthernGirl, Lurvie, Cheekie, Overit, pgh muse, Blkbond, bluntblazer, stuffgettho people like, and anybody else I missed that knew ya boy b4. Back semi-stable again and been lurkin lately and catchin up on old posts.
I think this link fits this topic perfectly today:
http://www.dimewars.com/Video/LOL–The-Adventures-Of-Tameka–Arrogant-African-American-Professional-Who-Can-t-Keep-A-Man.aspx?bcmediaid=965aecaa-9a3b-4ef0-9b2c-c34033041c31
Dimewars media player is extremely shady at times. If it stops on you in mid stream just hit the stop button and press play. Then click on the last place in tha stream where you left off.
@Tx10inch,
Heeeey there Tx10inch!!!!
**hugs**
Missed ya around these parts… not as much as your e-boo missed you. Better send her some e-flowers so you can get the e-goodies.
@Tx10inch,
What it do?!?!? Good to see ya back!
@blackberry molasses and miss t-lee,
Preciate tha luv. glad 2 be back.
@Tx10inch,
*folding arms and tapping foot with disapproval*
ummmm can EYE get the first shout out??
and yes, that question mark after e-boo is VERY necessary. where have you been?!?!?! i have been abandoned and lonely all up and thru VSB, with no e-boo (or e-explanation) in site. you just expected me to wait?!?!
i feel an e-break up coming on….
@Gem of the Ocean,
Damn, caught up. Knew it was coming…lol. Didn’t need to leave ya lonely, just needed some time to clear my head babygurl. I think a seperation would be in order though..we’ve grown apart. You ain’t even check on me to see if i was still kickin.. Sh*t, no email, no nutin.Wait 4 it, here it comes…..It’s not you, ya know? it’s me. I think we should go our separate e-way. We still good though right?
@Tx10inch,
wow.. . I’m witnessing my first e-break up?
@Tx10inch,
You cant fire e-BFF, she quits!
@Me fail english?, the runaway slave,
quit deez.
She still got my e-luv. We just gonna get back reacquainted. SMH. Neva been too good at breakups..
@Tx10inch,
*twists face* oh.no.he.di’nt!!!!!!!
*unsure whether to e-cry or find another e-boo*
@Tx10inch, *waving*
Hey Tx! Welcome back.
@Tx10inch,
Already! What’s good wit’ cha? Glad your back mayne. Chirp in and let’em know how it is…
Bond.
@BlkBond and pgh muse,
You know how we do…preciate tha luv folk.
@Tx10inch,
This video is hilarious in a very tongue in cheek/sarcastic way. You won’t believe the number of women I was in school with who were sleeping with attorneys/partners/judges but talking about how they were over the youth program at church (**side-eye**).
@Tx10inch,
Amongst my silly debating and whatnot, I forgot to say I missed ya, man!
*e-hug*
Welcome back! *lies out welcome mat*
Oh, and let me follow that link up by sayin…I am in NO WAY intimidated by a successful blk woman. As long as she knows who butta’s that bread when she step thru tha door we all good. I just thought that video was pure comedy…lol.
@Tx10inch,
and just to be clear, is “butta’s that bread” a euphemism for what clearly hasn’t been going on behind e-closed doors??
@Gem of the Ocean,
lmao. Champ isn’t the only one that loves toast.
j/k
@Tx10inch,
that video was mad funny
@ Stuff Ghetto People Like,
Yes this is true
I had something to contribute earlier in the day, but I’ll be d@mned if being a responsible “saver of the world from horrible diseases” didn’t get in the way of me participating today.
This post has inspired some interesting (albeit TOME- TASTIC) discussion. And brought some people out of hibernation (I see you Lil’T and Tx10inch! Aif… that u girl?)
So here it is. I make more money in my relationship. Point.Blank.Period. I probably will always make more. I USED to have a problem with this until I learned something about my own parents. It wasn’t until very recently (within the last 5 years or so) that my father made more money than my mom. My parents have been married for 30 years. When they met, she was a working professional, and he was in grad school. There were many times when my father was jobless and my mom was holding it down. Many of the big decisions in our family (emigrating from Europe to Canada and Canada to the U.S.) were based on my mother’s career.
While it wasn’t always perfect and my mom did (and from time to time still does) show her ass, she always made sure I knew the buck stopped with dad. It was never an outright statement. But whenever I thought I could get out of pocket (cuz my personality is just as strong as hers– I am her “mini me” in almost every way) the threat always was “Wait till your father gets home/finds out.” The moves we mad as a family were ultimately ok’d by dad, after he and mom discussed it and she used her “Mom Powers”
Even to this day, when am THISCLOSE out of pocket with my dad she will check me and be like ‘That is your FATHER. Watch it.”
All of that has taught me how to deal specifically with my own situation. I am with a sensitive, caring, hard working and smart man. Yes he makes less money than me. But he’s FOREVER on his grind. His methods may not match my methods or may make me uncomfortable… because we are different and were raised differently. But our VISION and GOALS for our lives are the same. I will happily be his helpmate.
Oh and ladies… let us not forget this wisdom:
“The man is the HEAD, but the woman is the NECK. And she can turn the head any way she wants.”
@BlackBerry Molasses,
i love you e-mama
@Gem of the Ocean,
I know
*e hug*
now go make up with that nice Texas boy. You know what to do. Mama taught you.
@BlackBerry Molasses,
*pouting* but i dont wanna…
@BlackBerry Molasses,
Hold My Mule 12th Street Missionary Baptist Chu’uch of the Saints! Yes Ma’am!
@BlackBerry Molasses,
“The man is the HEAD, but the woman is the NECK. And she can turn the head any way she wants.”
LOL Even when mom’s is homemaker extraordinaire, please know that if mama ain’t happy, ain’t NOBODY happy; if she don’t control nothing else, she controls the mood of her home, which everybody gotta come back to at the end of the day.
@Happy Meal,
LOL! I say this to my mother all the time, if she is unhappy–near and afar, we are ALL unhappy.
@BlkBond,
True life, that’s kinda more powerful than raking in the dough.
@BlackBerry Molasses,
“Yes he makes less money than me. But he’s FOREVER on his grind. ”
And this, THIS, is what earns a man true respect. It ain’t the dollar sign, it’s the grind. *folds arms and says “word”*
And lemme copy and paste this gem so it can said twice:
“The man is the HEAD, but the woman is the NECK. And she can turn the head any way she wants.”
Holy ghost!
I live by the wise words of my good friend Kaisey, who, come to think of it needs to start reading this blog. I’m bout to put her on. Anyway
“Always be a cheerleader for your man, but never his groupie.”
Living by this code has worked out so far.
@ Panama Jackson,
I believe like most things you have to take the most reasonable or relative and apply it in a logical manner.
I cnt agree with everything she says, but she’s not a complete loathing lunatic/theorist.
i know this is completely off-topic, but usain bolt just ran a 19.19 in the 200 meter finals at the world championships in berlin. thats unf*ckingbelievable
carry on
@The Champ,
that man is ridiculous…in a totally awsome kind of way!!!
@The Champ,
Usain Bolt is a freak of nature. Wow!!!
@The Champ,
his whole BEING is un-f*cking-believable.
I refuse to believe he is human. Yep. He’s the real life Six Million Dollar Man. I’m convinced.
@The Champ,
And I quoteth: What a man, what a man, what a man, what a mighty good man.
That mofo is a BEAST!
My own personal philosophy is : “It’s hard enough being a woman, Why would I try and be the man too?”
@Happy Meal,
I guess the question is, “What truly makes a man…a man?”. Because if it’s being a breadwinner, then um…no, I refute that. Today’s ecomony ain’t got time for gender roles. Money is money.
@Cheekie,
naw girl…money is only the result of what you do (I know very satisfied couples where it is the woman who makes the financial decisions, because as a couple they agreed SHE is better at it).
I’m talmbout who you are as a person… I think we can all agree that men and women are different. I believe you can’t be a good mate to nobody (whatever your role in the relationship ends up being) if you don’t become who YOU were designed to be, as an individual first, then in the context of your relationship. It’s hard enough getting to where I’m sposed to be, me as a growing female individual and all, to be tryina figure out what his mission is and tryina fulfill that to.
As women having the miraculous powers of persuasion that we do, we can inspire and encourage the men in our lives to grow and go further, mainly through our example and support, but that’s it. I believe you invite trouble when you try to usurp…If you must do all and be all…stay single, because that’s the time when you HAVE to be all those things.
@Happy Meal,
Understood and definitely agreed!
Real talk, don’t know if anyone touched on this but on some real ish *eyes dart shiftily*….the only time the income difference is an issue is when I think about my bf making more than me. Not for nothing, cuz I love my baby, but he aint smart enough to be making that much more money than me!
I know its not the PC thing to say so I just keep it on the low. He doesn’t suspect a thing *wink* but I be hatin like a momofugga!
@Me fail english?, the runaway slave,
LMAO. This is why VSB needs u. girl, u silly!
No, the lesson here is: God gave Adam the directive, therefore it was on him to make sure the apple was resisted. What y’all really gotta question is why Adam was out of place. He couldn’t have been in his rightful position to protect her or else the snake never would’ve gotten that close…
@bittersweet’s baby,
Oh-to-the-snap!
@bittersweet’s baby,
things that make you go:
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
**purses lips, raises one eyebrow**
@all the gyals who want grass cut, how about I just call 1-866-EASY-TURF or do like Vegas homes and replace the lawn with rocks?
@Stuff Ghetto People Like,
No.
The man should do man stuff. Take out the trash, kill the bugs, drive, provide the groceries, carry the bags, etc… The man is to assist in maintaining a lifestyle that is comfortable for both parties (read: the woman… let’s face when the woman is happy, the man is happy)
It doesn’t matter who makes more $$$. It’s what you do with it. “If you do for me, I’ll do for you.” Women are insensitive sometimes and say that they can do this or that without a man but really no woman wants that. Why spend your own money when you can have the ego boost of knowing someone else cares enough to do it just because?
Part of the problem is that most women either believe that a man should be able to give her the world (and are quickly disappointed) or they believe that they can’t depend on a man (because they’ve been let down by their fathers). Even the most realistic woman grapples with balancing their expectations with a man’s abilities. The real trick is distinguishing between the two.
@bittersweet’s baby,
Adam is at fault for not standing his ground. Even if Eve was rubbin the fruit all over her nekkid body.
Eve for not listening to what Adam told her. He aint say nothin about touchin no fruit. Not nothing.