I think I’m a hater.
download mary poppins movie And I’m not a hater because I think Alicia Keys is overrated. Hell, she is.
No, I think I’m a hater because I’ve come to the conclusion that I hate overly educated pretentious Black folks. And my hate goes even further because these are the people that white America deems to be our next leaders. In fact, let’s pause here for a second and think about something. Many Black folks think that we do not have any Black leaders right now. However, I think the white upper echelon of politics and academia thinks we do. Do you know why they think we do??? Because they proclaimed some of these people as our leaders.
The Bill Cosbys, Steve Harvey, the Cornel Wests, the Michael Eric Dysons, Diddy, etc. It’s essentially the people that they look to as shining examples of leadership and thought in the Black community. And you know what, outside of Colin and Condi…A LOT of Black folks don’t even know who those people are. Which means that we don’t even pick our leaders anymore. Long gone are the days where the leaders actually connected with the people they were allegedly leading. And you know what the big difference is nowadays???
Black folks could actually UNDERSTAND the leaders of old. Which brings me to why I’m a hater of overly educated Black folks. Now this might sound like one of the most ignant things I’ve ever said but maybe if I explain what I’m talking about, it won’t sound so ignant. And keep in mind, I’m a hater, mmkay??
So I’ve been reading a book by Michael Eric Dyson on Marvin Gaye. It’s called Mercy, Mercy Me: The Art, Love, and Demons of Marvin Gaye. Honestly, don’t buy this book. I promise you that you’re life will be better for it. You know how when you read a book about somebody’s life you tend to gain some insight?? Nope, not with Dyson books. In fact, I’ve read three of his books. This current book, Holler If You Hear Me, which was about Tupac, and I May Not Get There With You about Dr. Martin Luther tha King, Jr. It’s the same thing with all of his books. I walk away with nothing, save a few tidbits of knowledge that I’d heard before but never seen in print format.
You might say, well, Panama, why do you continue to read his books??? And I’d say, well, because for some reason, I keep hearing how his books are so great and that Dyson is this thinker who is providing insight into the Black community. Frankly, I’m starting to get pissed. And I’m not pissed that his books suck, I’m pissed that he is taking Black mythic personas, over intellectualizing them, and turning them into these stories for white people to tell at their swanky dinner affairs when the subject of Black people comes up.
Now why do these books suck though?? Well, have you ever TRIED to read one of these books by these overly educated Black people?? Look, I’m not Einstein, but I learned how to read good a long time ago. I’ve got degrees.
So why is it that I cannot understand for the life of me what the hell these bastards are talking about half of the time? Reading should not be a labor. Why the f*ck won’t you write in a way that average people who could probably benefit the most from your insight (a**uming you actually have any, I couldn’t tell since it took me forever to actually get through your damn book) could understand.
And this is the same problem that many of our overly educated Black folks have. This desire and need to appease white people, because honestly, that’s who is reading these books, and convince them that they are educated. And once again we come upon the problem of looking to white people for validation. I guess in this sense I understand since those are the folks who are going to deem you the next Black leaders anyway, because surely Black folks aren’t. Black folks want leaders that understand them and can relate. We don’t even know who some of our “leaders” are.
Then again, like guns, books don’t lead people, people kill books.
Or something like that.
I guess the larger point is this: how can you lead if nobody even understands how to follow you?
Maybe I’m blowing smoke. Maybe I’m smoking blow.
Either way, the fact remains, there seems to be a disconnect between Black leaders and the community.
Or is there?
Good people of VSB that don’t want to think this hard on a Friday, does the Black community have any leaders right now?
Better yet, do we even need any?
Learn me.
-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka TANGLE JIG P aka GIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRL, HE A 3
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- Taking The Lead
- Get Like We: The Biggest And Most Popular Trends in the Black Community in the last 20 years.
- the bad rap: 4 unnecessary and undeserving villains of the black community
- Voice of Black America: 5 Things I’d Just Like To Put Out There…For Putting It Out There’s Sake.
{ 369 comments… read them below or add one }
tired of overly educated blacks, says the black man with a master’s degree…
so are you saying we need dumber negroes to lead us to the promised land?
@Liz,
“tired of overly educated blacks, says the black man with a master’s degree…”
This is part of the problem right here. Master’s degrees , Phd’s, etc. doesn’t necessarily mean you are educated. Not to say that Panama isn’t. He seems like a pretty smart dude. I see too many people give free passes to idiots with degrees.
@Humble_One, This is part of the problem right here. Master’s degrees , Phd’s, etc. doesn’t necessarily mean you are educated. Not to say that Panama isn’t. He seems like a pretty smart dude. I see too many people give free passes to idiots with degrees.
exactly.. look at DAvid Otunga…better known as Punk from I luv New York 2 and most recently knocking up Jennifer hudsonand becoming a wrestler….
he as a Harvard Law degree…
for real for real
plus the girl that was in my leadership training, that spelled angry….aungry…and then erased it and re spelled it aungre????? (for which I almost lost my job for not being able to hold my inappropriately loud azz laughter.).. she had an MBA .. she is organized and and very efficient. but she aint that bright.
@shay_d_lady,
Punk’s behavior was a disgrace. His lack of backbone made watching “I Love New York” unbearable. J-Hud could have done so much better than Senor Softserve.
@Legendary Dash,
i have the bigggest crush on j-hud untill he knocked her up but ima take her on maury tho cause i think its mines
@BLUNTBLAZER,
lmao!!
@Humble_One,
Not to split hairs, but I think a Master’s does mean you’re educated. You may not be particularly bright or insightful. You may be completely incapable of applying common sense. But “educated”, you are.
@Liz,
Also, the opposite of overly verbose, convoluted equivocators is “dumber negroes”. How about negroes who have something interesting to say and state it succinctly in plain English?
@Me fail english?, Not to split hairs, but I think a Master’s does mean you’re educated. You may not be particularly bright or insightful. You may be completely incapable of applying common sense. But “educated”, you are.
I know PLENTY of folks with a masters that basically paid their money and the school gave them a piece of paper. That doesn’t mean they’re educated, it means they had the patience to sit through the classes. Some of these “educated” cats just got by. He11, I work with someone that has a masters and he cant make educated guesses…
@CoCoPuffs, lol i agree with you re: what educated means. that’s at least one definition of it. not sure how that can be missed lol.
@Me fail english?,
i agree…most people with degrees are educated. the problem is that they use those degrees as proof that they are more educated/smarter than the average black person. Most of my college classmates are just as educated as some of these so called leaders, and in most instances, my classmates and others are smarter and more connected to the black community b/c we live it every day. we just aren’t pimping the community to advance our own self-interest.
@N.I.A. LivingLifeOffTheWall….,
Well. . . the day I get my PhD. . .I will be more educated than the average black person. . . or average white person. . . or average person in general.
In fact, that is partly the point. My degree tends to mean that if you have 100 average people and me talking about the design of cooperation strategies for groups of autonomous agents, and the 100 people all say one thing, and I say the opposite, you will be best served by listening solely to me.
If I go to apply for a job, I will use my degree as a rationale for why I should be hired over those 100 other people.
@kamakula,
good point…
a Ph.D./J.D/M.D. definitely makes you more educated…and that degree will definitely help you get that job. but it won’t necessarily make you good at your job…
@N.I.A. LivingLifeOffTheWall….,
Not being good at a job that your PhD/JD/MD uniquely qualifies you to do just means you don’t have experience. It doesn’t take away from that fact that someone else without those qualifications doesn’t hold a candle to you in that regard.
@ kamakula,
agreed. but back to the MED, and others, some feel that they lack the community experience to really be the voice that speaks for the black community. Now, when these men are in front of white journalists or other pundits, they definitely drop some knowledge regarding history. but guess what, a person who can read and understand could drop that same knowledge. my father did not finish college, and he is more knowledgeble than any of those guys when it comes to black history, African history in particular. he is well read, and highly intelligent w/o a Ph.D. so yes, my JD and your eventual Ph.D. definitely gives us more credibility, and i am more qualified to practice law than my father, but i will listen to his lectures on the Diaspora before i listen to MED or any others. b/c my father actually knows what the struggle is all about, and he can’t hide behind his degrees….
none of this means that education isn’t important, and it doesn’t take anything away from formal education, and our degrees will still garner more respect than the well read father of 5….
@N.I.A. LivingLifeOffTheWall….,
I don’t feel there is significantly that much difference between you, I, and someone who would make a good (elected or otherwise) leader other than our own personal desire to commit our lives to that endeavor rather than whatever it is we currently do.
So, some people are in leadership roles by virtue of being the ones who are out there doing it. Part of getting an advanced degree is removing that “hiding behind” factor. A person with a PhD in engineering or science for example has had to carry out literary research, design, conduct and analyze experiments, etc. So, when you see that PhD, it means there is something to back it up beyond reading a book and successfully answering the problems in the back.
Your dad (and mine
) would probably in our opinions make much better leaders than a lot that are out there. However, that’s part of what makes those people leaders – not anything remarkably special or innate in them, but that they are in the “public” sphere.
What is the difference between Albert Einstein and Johnathan Pickleberry – being in the right place at the right time. Sometimes, it really is just that.
*BTW, I made up Johnathan Pickleberry.
@kamakula,
lol @ Johnathan Pickleberry.
So, some people are in leadership roles by virtue of being the ones who are out there doing it. Part of getting an advanced degree is removing that “hiding behind” factor. A person with a PhD in engineering or science for example has had to carry out literary research, design, conduct and analyze experiments, etc. So, when you see that PhD, it means there is something to back it up beyond reading a book and successfully answering the problems in the back.
Your dad (and mine
) would probably in our opinions make much better leaders than a lot that are out there. However, that’s part of what makes those people leaders – not anything remarkably special or innate in them, but that they are in the “public” sphere.
What is the difference between Albert Einstein and Johnathan Pickleberry – being in the right place at the right time. Sometimes, it really is just that.
we are in agreement, kamakula.
@Liz, i know. i hate myself at least 47 times a week.
and no i dont think we need dumber ninjas to lead us to the promised land. i’m not even sure we need leaders to tell the truth.
i guess my larger point is, who are these cats even talking to? if i’m one of the reading Black talented 10 style ninjas, and i cant understand you…who is your real audience?
why for come you talking all high falutin? what purpose does it serve if nobody can understand the message they’re supposed to be getting.
@Panama Jackson,
i say if you can walk thru the neighborhood you grew up in (hoping you came from a ruff place) then you true peice of paper or not.
@Liz, if there was a “like” button for your comment, i would press it
First of all, I SEE you Panama: http://www.nuphipsi.org/reading_is_fundamental.JPG
And its not that I don’t want to think too hard on a Friday, just not when it just turned Friday.
I will say quickly, I always felt our “leaders” were picked for us, no doubt Malcolm and Martin both led, but white folks aint got no love for the tit for tat negro. Everyone that mainstream society holds up has been vetted by them, doesn’t make their words more or less worthy, but its the case.
I’m not too impressed with Dyson, I have my theories on why people like him, but I shall digress, for now.
g’night midnight crew:)
@overit
Quit hatin on Panama’s widow’s peak & afro puff combo. That was hot back in the day.
@An Island, lucky for everybody, i finally got my hair permed.
@Panama Jackson,
Word to Sharpton.
@overit,
I wish I knew how to quit you.
stands and gives panama the slow clap……..
@shay_d_lady, LOLOL.
@shay_d_lady, man i hope the slow clap isn’t a new improved form of the “clap”.
lol
@Panama Jackson,
lol!!
@Panama Jackson,
Maybe it’s the booty clap in slow motion? Ya’ll said everything was better in slow motion.
but to comment, I cant stand it, with its unnecessarily verbose language that is used to cover up the fact that they aint talking about shyt.
Thats part of the reason I loved Obama.. i mean his book, though sometimes a little stilted was written in a way that people could read, relate and understand.. overcompensating never proves a point it only serves to underscore the fact that you are overcompensating for something…..
as far as speaking for the black community, these people have lost touch and gotten so caught up in thier own hype that they dont even truly speak for themselves, so how the hell are they going to speak for the community….
and also, can we talk about the mofos that have managed to be the music industry experts?.. Toure, Michaela chick George whateva….. all them folks that be on the bet countdowns .. who the h.ell decided they were experts on music and black culture?
@shay_d_lady, Don’t even get me started on Toure. I had to unfollow him on Twitter he was o hypocrtical. He goes on rants all about BET and how it sucks…and next thing *I* know, I see him hosting BET Black Carpet or some mess. whatever dude.
By the way I think a lot of those types are catching major checks due to MJ dying and probably due to Obama being in office. I just wish they didn’t use the same pool of about 10 negroes to do it.
@Liz, So glad you mentioned checks being cashed off MJ & Obama. Some of the jokers caught a good life line from those cats and it’s disgusting, but I’m never surprised. More cash for perms and mistresses i guess. =/
@shay_d_lady, i agree that m.e.d. is unnecessarily verbose; i think he hides behind his big words and curly hair, and this is based on both his books (which are many in number, as he said, ” i write books like ninjas write hooks”) and hearing him speak live on two occasions. i do, however, have the utmost respect and admiration for cornel west. i think he is genuinely intelligent and can’t help but talk about pragmatism, nihilism, and all other sorts of isms, without sounding like his IQ is on a hundred-thousdand-trillian. but when cornel speaks live, at least what i’ve heard, he attempts to adjust his rhetoric for his audience, save a few profound, very large words that seem to slip in every now and then.
as far as them being our appointed leaders…i dunno. and i think the masses of white people that read such black intellectuals are probably more limited than you (Panama) think, but i haven’t had time to conduct a census on this matter, just my opinion.
and how you do all (VSBers) propose that we should pick our black leaders? shall we vote on them? have a lottery and let the lucky negro lead us to the promised land? spades tournament perhaps??
oh and F!ck Bill Cosby…
yeah I said it
but i still luvvvvvs Cliff Huxtable
that is all
@shay_d_lady,
I feel you. I f*cks with the Huxtables, but Bill can st*ck it. His life makes my forehead hurt.
@shay_d_lady, Bill Cosby is a classic sellout. You ever hear about Bill’s contributions to the Civil Rights movement? Hell naw, there’s a reason why Bill was the first black star of a non variety TV series. Because he’s the classic, Good Negro (c), docile and hambone-y with the 2520s, always making Mr. Man smile. Other black entertainers of that era have their stories about the struggle, Mr. Bill was becoming the original TV Sidekick Negro.
That old fool trying to check negroes in the hood while his bippity bippity doo ass running out on Camille and having random 30 year olds asking if he they daddy….then he talking smack about how the kids dress today while he was pulling in Fubu loot for his Fat Albert gear…
Bill can suck my pudd’n pop.
@T. Troy Stewart,
Thank you!!!!
He makes me wanna punch him in the face.
@T. Troy Stewart,
That old fool trying to check negroes in the hood while his bippity bippity doo ass running out on Camille and having random 30 year olds asking if he they daddy .
This gets me everytime.
@T. Troy Stewart,
“then he talking smack about how the kids dress today while he was pulling in Fubu loot for his Fat Albert gear…”
Very true.
@Monk, once again, playing devil’s advocate…i don’t think he was saying anything’s wrong with the brand of clothes kids are wearing, but the way they are wearing them. i should not have to see the boo-boo stains on your boxers. pull your d@mn pants up son!! (sorry, i was just subjected to such horror in the grocery store last night)
@A Plus,
him and Sindknee Portier used ta hella dum out in those 70 blaxploitation movies he a hypocrite to the highest degree
@T. Troy Stewart,
** starts slow clap **
thank you for saying this. my dad has always said this about Bill. when i was younger, he never really watched the Cosby show, and this is why. he does not respect Bill Cosby at all….
@T. Troy Stewart, just playing devil’s advocate, but….was bill obligated to be a contributor to the civil rights movement? what if he just wanted to be an actor/comedian, so was doing what needed to be do at the time to make his dream a reality.
i def think he’s a hypocrite, but i also think a lot of the stuff he’s saying needs to be said.
@A Plus, no he wasn’t but he sure reaped the benefits of the Civil Rights Movement. He didn’t have anything to say when Jim Crow had turned parts of the USA into Aparthied America.
but now he comes in swinging on his own kind, you can’t hold him back.
he was the same dude who made those hood flicks with Sidney Poitier in the 70s after the coast was clear and blaxploitation was getting fools paid…some argue that it was the Blaxploitation films that set the stage for the bling bling, gangsta, video ho exploitation error era we’re currently experiencing in various sectors of our culture/community.
Bill talks out the side of his neck a great deal but he refuses to acknowledge his faults and contributions to the jankyness.
@T. Troy Stewart,
“Bill can suck my pudd’n pop.”
*giggle*
Once again, T. Troy, hun, you have confirmed while I e-love ya. We are >>here<< with the above.
And yes, he is hypocrite incarnate. But, those high falutin’ that preach down to folks usually are. It’s like a pattern for them ninjas. Kinda like the State Street Old Navy preacher that chastizes folks for smoking and says they’re going to hell yet he smokes himself (and rebuking HISSELF while takin’ a puff). Hilarity, thy name is Chi-town.
@T. Troy Stewart, i prefer bippity boppity boo myself, but anyways….
i was just wondering….if these are our leaders, where are they leading us to? a better black tomorrow with no saggy jeans?
i think in order to be a leader you need to have some sort of defined cause, or at least a d*mn mission statement so i can kno where the ‘ell we’re goin.
….i guess i lean towards the side of us not even needing leaders.
@Chas, have we not forgotten how Jesse showed his hateraid for Obama during the election? Went on Fox News and said he wanted to cut dude’s nutz off?
Its leaders like Jesse that had us backsliding for years after MLK passed away…it’s time for them to go now.
@T. Troy Stewart, i agree with you.
lol “while his bippity bippity doo..”
versus my “bibbity boppity boo” was what i was referring to.
an op and a boo
@shay_d_lady,
oh and F!ck Bill Cosby…
yeah I said it
but i still luvvvvvs Cliff Huxtable
Chuuch! I remember a speech he gave a few years back when he was trying to talk about the black community…basically talking about “latchkey” kids and how they grow up to be no good…I guess me graduating from h.s., getting a B.S. (no shullbit), and M.S. doesn’t mean sh!t, eh?
Single degree holder piping up from Lurk-ville…I called bullsh!t on MED long ago. He likes words, all of them, and has no concern for their logical placement in relation to each other. Perhaps he has noble intentions but since he gets on my nerves so much I really can’t get to that point with him.
re: leaders and their necessity in 2009…being smart and being educated are not always the same thing. We need smart people, organized people, savvy people and (dare i say it) articulate people who can create an agenda and then get folks working on said agenda. So yes we need leaders, no we don’t need Diddy or MED posing as such
@ebonyI, Single degree holder piping up from Lurk-ville…I called bullsh!t on MED long ago. He likes words, all of them, and has no concern for their logical placement in relation to each other
you are my new e friend! LMAO
co sign this part in particular but your whole post as well
@shay_d_lady,
Thanks girl, glad to have a new efriend. And I agree w/you on Bro. West…he just gets a pass from me, what’s 80 jillion words among fam?
@ebonyI,
“He likes words, all of them, and has no concern for their logical placement in relation to each other. ”
LMAO! He sounds like that prisoner character from “In Living Color” – just big words and not making a lick of sense!
@ebonyI, He likes words, all of them, and has no concern for their logical placement in relation to each other.
that might be the best description i’ve ever read of Michael Eric Dyson.
its funny…because its true.
A very valid point is made when you mention the Harveys, Dysons and please toss in Sharpton & Jackson. I spare Cosby because he’s a well documented philanthropist. My questions is who is following them, what have these talking heads done to earn the leadership title, when is a change gon’ come under their leadership, where are they leading folks and why on earth should I “follow” them?
Many times the aforementioned title holders are spotlight mongers hocking books (Harvey), Freestyling & sweating (Dyson), while hollering and being ambulance chasing despair groupies (Sharpton & Jesse). These main stream characters are self indulgent Brand Managers before anything else and they have a product to PUSH. Their followers merely get in where they fit in (or pay in).
So, do we need really need leaders White America dubs as “ours” or should we praise the quiet riot leaders that make an impact on the grassroots level when CNN & FOX isn’t rolling tape for their 6o’clock news slot? I’m going with the latter. The former can simply holla back me when they come off tour. 1 time. PaZ
@Frederico Savage, Philanthropist dont mean shyt..
they all give and fund raise…
that doesnt give bill the right to speak for all black people.. he is a f!ck in comedian
tell a joke and shut the hell up with his overly prusumtious out of touch azz…..
@shay_d_lady, I tried to give Cliff, pardon me, Bill the Huxtable pass but Phuk it. Point taken. Proceed.
@Frederico Savage,
My main issue with the intellectual elite that go on cable news to debate issues of race, is that for the most part none of them have been truly in the trenches. Studying Black people and Black issues in colleges where the minorities are few and far between is not the same as getting your hands dirty by organizing and working your way up for the grassroots level.
I pulled an eye muscle from excessively rolling my eyes the last time I endured listening to MED speak. I was cock-eyed for a week and had special shades prescribed to me to maintain my fresh.
Note: A lot of the ambulance chasing done by Jesse and Al is at the request of local leaders. They know that Al and Jesse can bring the cameras and can lead to their cause getting the amount of publicity and donations to succeed.
@Legendary Dash, Studying Black people and Black issues in colleges where the minorities are few and far between is not the same as getting your hands dirty by organizing and working your way up for the grassroots level.
this has long been a criticism of a lot of the Black intellectual crowd. at morehouse, one of my professors went on a 20 minute tirade against this in my “social problems” class.
you know what, i actually had a class called “social problems” lol
that’s funny to me.
@Panama Jackson,
Another problem with the MEDs of the world is that it always seems to be theater with them. It makes them come off as untrustworthy.
@Legendary Dash,
My main issue with the intellectual elite that go on cable news to debate issues of race, is that for the most part none of them have been truly in the trenches. Studying Black people and Black issues in colleges where the minorities are few and far between is not the same as getting your hands dirty by organizing and working your way up for the grassroots level.
Just to make sure I have the correct understanding of the sentence above: Does it mean a well-off black person has no rights to talk about racial issues?
I am not sure I follow.
@Sula,
No I am not saying that. In no other profession would a person be deemed an expert who has spent most of his adult life away from his subjects. The mantle of leader is earned, and one has to do more than write a thesis or two, and appear on Real Time with Bill Maher to get it. One of the reasons I respect cats like Dick Greggory is that he put in the work and earned his stripes.
@Sula,
Being a leader in the Black community is not class specific. A lot of key members in Civil Rights Movement were fairly well off. Only in punditry can a person be given the title of expert without having to go out and earn anything.
@Frederico Savage, I agree!!
We are getting mad because these are the people that are SUPPOSEDLY representing us. We are “SITTING” at home on our butts watching TV & waiting to be led. Get up, get out & do something. Become the leader that you are waiting for.
@Yaa,
Agreed.
@Frederico Savage, Freestyling & sweating (Dyson)
soooo true. he sweats profusely. make his curl look extra juicy.
i hate diddy..
@mo, can somebody let him know he is not and never will be Frank Sinatra or James Bond?
He has identity issues.
@Liz,
And that may be the case, but the marketing works because I want to try this Ciroc and Lemonade now lol.
@Ashley Neicole, LOL mamama nooooo! don’t fall for it!
@Ashley Neicole, you might not like puffy, but that ciroc and lemonade is on point..
however.. my fave is ciroc and dole pineapple juice..
mmmhmmm
@shay_d_lady, Ciroc…
is the best Vodka ever. Diddy is wack but that dang Ciroc sure ain’t. lol
@shay_d_lady,
Really?
I think ciroc tastes like turpentine.
@miss t-lee,
i thought i was the only one
ciroq=drain cleaner
@ blackberry molasses,
“ciroq=drain cleaner”
Good call.
@pgh muse, not sure that ciroc is the best vodka ever, but taste is subjective. as long as i’m not drinking Reyka…i’m good.
i almost heaved a midget last time i took some shots of Reyka.
rail liquor will kill you.
@shay_d_lady,
i have to agree with the majority here…Ciroc doesn’t really do it for me…to each her own, I guess.
and yes PJ, rail liquor will kill you…kill you dead!!
@shay_d_lady,
I LOATHE Diddy for that “Ceroc Obama” line in Day 26′s “Imma Put It On Her”. He just thought that was TOO raw. Sit the eff down, Diddles, and stay there.
@Cheekie,
I’m ashamed, but Ciroc Obama made me chuckle. I also enjoy when DJ Drama calls himself Barack O’Drama.
LMAO, I laughed just writing it.
Please don’t judge me.
@shay_d_lady,
naw gimme some vsop and a mgd and im strait
@8th Wonder,
“I’m ashamed, but Ciroc Obama made me chuckle. I also enjoy when DJ Drama calls himself Barack O’Drama.”
Ya know, honestly, I would’ve found it funnier if someone else had said it. lol I’m all for making things rhyme with Senor Obama’s moniker and playing around with it…I’m sure he is lighthearted about it himself. (Like, how I can’t stop cracking up when the news named their dog, Bo…Bobama). It’s all in the delivery with Diddles. Sometimes he does say some — I have to admit — hilarious things, but there’s such a self-imporant aura about everything he says. That’s when folks lose me.
@shay_d_lady, ciroc is a great vodka.. as compared to many other vodka’s ….vodka has a unique tast anyway and ciroq is really good, its smooth, doesnt hit your stomach and make it knot up and its great with pineapple juice…
I love it.. ciroc, svedka, grey goose….
@miss t-lee,
I am not a big fan of Ciroc either…
@Ashley Neicole,
Ciroc tastes like cough medicine, but Diddy is great though. If only for that Proactive commercial. “It moisturizes my situation, and preserves my sexy.”
@shay_d_lady,
svedka = the devil
@Ashley Neicole, it is a tasty summer drink
@mo, I like Diddy, I dont think that he needs to be speaking for anybody but himself but as a self made man, I respect his hustle and business sense. NOw him and them baby momma’s? thats a whole different thang all together
@mo,
The matter of fact, no nonsense manner in which this was posted is HIGH LARRY US to me.
@mo,
Let’s not front here people…Puffy (I refuse to call him the other name) has provided entertainment for ALL of us in one way or another and guess what, THAT’S his fuggin’ job. I don’t look at him as a leader and I think one should evaluate their life if they do. Just take him as an entertainer (and a business mogul who has constantly persevered and manuevered his way through the industry…if you wish) and leave it at that.
@Monk,
Yep.
@Monk, I agree w/ you that he’s an entertainer – but he and other celebrities’ are put on pedestals as if they are what we should aspire to be. He’s definitely an adept business man and he’s really rich. This IS what people want in life. So they’re gonna look to him and those like him as an example.
@pgh muse,
he got rich off of broke ninjas backs cough cough big, lox, shyne etc his solo cds never do #’s
@mo,
I love you for hating Diddy. Let’s all sing Kumbaya and celebrate the hate.
Why the f*ck won’t you write in a way that average people who could probably benefit the most from your insight (a**uming you actually have any, I couldn’t tell since it took me forever to actually get through your damn book) could understand.
simple. he doesn’t have any f*cking insight. just a lot of information that he’s trying to thread together like the next incarnation of String Theory. They always say the EXACT same thing, just wrap it in different packaging (i.e Marvin Gaye vs. “love of black women”). Nothing more. Nothing new. Talk to me when you have a fool proof way for me to off Bill O’Reilly* and not go to jail.
*Speaking of this splotchy bully, I found it very telling (and sickening) that this idjit feels like he has the right to make pronouncements on what “blackness” is. This is nothing new out of him, or his ilk, but when he basically said that MJ is not Black because he has ‘white’ children… I wanted to kick his teeth in. But this example lends credence to the fact that people who want to be seen as ‘leaders’ for the Black Community seek their validation by ‘white’ standards, thus letting fools like Billy Boy feel like they can talk out the side of their neck about what’s “best” for us.
@blackberry molasses, Speaking of this splotchy bully, I found it very telling (and sickening) that this idjit feels like he has the right to make pronouncements on what “blackness” is. This is nothing new out of him, or his ilk, but when he basically said that MJ is not Black because he has ‘white’ children…
so having white kids makes you oless black, but having black kids doesnt make you less white.. Madonna, Angelina???
F!ck Bill O reilly and his bullshyt azz rheteroic.. he and Nancy Grace need to be tied to that thing Lafayette was chained to in True Blood and forced to listen to hours and hours of each others show
until their ears bleed….
@shay_d_lady,
Girrrrrrl Nancy Grace can catch not one but two to the gut!
@Ashley Neicole,
…and I’d be first to hold her down while you slug ‘er!
Why is it that “journalism” and “reporting the news” has turned into such a cutthroat race to get the first scoop, without anyone mindful of people’s thoughts, feelings, or anything?? Makes me kinda sad for the kids I’ll have around my 43rd birthday in 2029–ish…
@shay_d_lady,
OT, but I luvs me some Lafeyette… his cousin, on the other hand, was really killing me with her self-loathing in season 1. Jason Stackhouse was not checking for her, whatsoever.
@Honey Bee, Girl I do luv Lafayette.. I was so happy when he wasnt dead….
@shay_d_lady, billy boy prolly got a few minority children all over the globe. with his hatin @ss..ugh
@shay_d_lady,
It kills me how they say “yall love MJ but yall wudnt let ya kids stay at his house” shiiiii I wouldnt let my kid stay at no celeb house not bush, chaney, o’rielly, not beyonce(well maybe if i can too), larry king etc. sooo why they trippin on mike?
@blackberry molasses, Everytime I see your screen name i start singing in my head
** (cue Mista) Blackberry molasses and all the things that never chaaaange … u gotta keep holding on! It doesn’t rain all the time, there’s gonna be some heartache and paaaaiinn…**
mmmkay. enough of that.
@blackberry molasses, i’d pay good money to go on the Bill O’Reilly show and argue with him about everything.
if Cam’ron can make it to O’Reilly, i’m sure i can.
@Panama Jackson,
All you gotta do is make a career out of nonsensical rhymes. I’ll start you off..
I be oohey gooey
In my custom louie
Girls be actin newey
I’m like, “Scooby Doobey!”
Now, finish it.
@8th Wonder,
then she blew me
in her two peice
lol lemme stop
@8th Wonder, I be oohey gooey
In my custom louie
Girls be actin newey
I’m like, “Scooby Doobey!”
LMAO
@blackberry molasses,
Although I dislike Bill O’Reilly, every now and then something that he says will have some validity in it which is why I never completely tune him out. However, the ignorance spewed when talking about MJ not being “Black” will forever go down in history as the stupidest shyt I’ve ever heard…in life. And I’ve heard some stupid shyt before.
IN THE DEFENCE OF BILL O’REILLY, I think he had a point with the MJ stuff.
Angelina & Madonna cannot be compared. They both have white children and more importantly have not tried to pass on their adoptive kids as their own biological children like Michael did. Michael rather randomly had white children.
Whilst he was a black icon, he did a lot in his life to make him (& his immediate family) look less white. There was never any reason for Sharpton & co. to go on stage and start yapping this & that.
Panama, you been cribbing Elon James White’s columns? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elon-james-white/thats-whats-wrong-with-bl_b_214527.html
EJW, basically takes issue with all the same folks you name checked, plus Tavis Smiley. And if you’ve never read the Rolling Stone story with Cornel West (all 80 jillion words of it), you can’t begin to grasp the 2520′s obsession with the other Mr. West. Incidentally, I’d rather Kanye speak on behalf of “all blacks everywhere” just because at least he admits he’s a hypocritical bastard. (And I’d want to see what Amber Rose wears to his speeches.)
So yeah, there’s a disconnect between the leaders that give good soundbites (and get checks to show up for black causes, ahem, Rev. Al) and the people that actually affect the black community. But that’s because the job isn’t organizing next week’s bus boycott. Things are a little more complicated now.
@Sheffield Swats,
I read that post and couldn’t believe what that fool said. I didn’t even know that ppl were really out here doggin Obaman like that. I mean he did JUST get in office and came through like a tornado. We do have to give the man some time to let his influence show.
@Sheffield Swats,
I’ve recently gotten hooked to EJW myself, following him on Twitter and ish to get the latest scoop, or at least his take on it… This Week in Blackness it the troof!
@Sheffield Swats, Panama, you been cribbing Elon James White’s columns? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elon-james-white/thats-whats-wrong-with-bl_b_214527.html
sad to say, i don’t even know who that is. i’ll go read now though. lol.
reading…is fundamental.
im not sure i’d want kanye speaking for me. though i love his artistry, i’m not sure that i think he’s the most articulate cat out there on the spot.
plus all he might come up with is variations of : X…does not care about Black people.
poignant the first time. retarded when he makes it to the Pope.
@Panama Jackson, the Kanye thing was (sort of) a joke–well, not the Amber Rose part.
But between Elon James White and Ta-Nehisi Coates at the Atlantic, that’s how I get my “what we blacks should be thinking” fix. Maybe they’re not TV-friendly or something but I’d much rather read them than listen to the intellectual shuck-n-jive Cornel and MED spew.
@Beez, didn’t know EJW had a twitter feed….following now.
@Sheffield Swats,
Cornel West is an idiot for that comment. And Obama has been in office for 6 months and change…why does everyone expect him to change ish right away? I just don’t understand it.
@Sheffield Swats, “Dr. West is a part of a group of Black intelligentsia that sees it as their job to step up and police President Obama on his dealings on Blackness. West, Tavis Smiley, Michael Eric Dyson and others see themselves as the voice of the Black plight and will not allow Obama to ignore the very people that got him into office!” – ELW
my only issue/question with this statement/line of thinking is, did west, dyson, and others actually SAY this, that this is their job? or do others put that upon them because they are a part of this “black intelligentsia”? i haven’t finished reading the article yet so maybe my question is answered, but i doubt it.
@Sheffield Swats,
Kanye speakin on Bush and Katrina classic and priceless I member Mike Myers face like oh shiii lol
e. badu may have said it best “what good do your words do if they can’t understand you?”
p.s. i’ve been to a couple of well read intellectual white people’s houses and i have NEVER seen a dyson book on their bookshelf. dyson, west, cosby, etc. are over intellectualizing for the coloreds. folks my parents age love these guys and feel like by reading their work they are staying in touch with my generation AND supporting the dubois (es) of our time.
@moks,
really???….i should have been quicker on the submit button!! LOL!! Great minds think alike…and listen to E. Badu.
@moks, i actually think i was duped into Dyson b/c a few of my boys kept telling me i needed to check him out. i read one book and was like…ouch, that sucked. but i assumed it was just a bad book.
then another. then another.
at this point, if i read another dyson book, it’s my own fault. but i even hate hearing him talk. i basically hate all of these motherf*ckers that over intellectualize stuff, seemingly just for hte hell of it. i’m happy you read hte dictionary front to back 12 times, but you dont hav eto try to use every word in every book.
@Panama Jackson,
“i basically hate all of these motherf*ckers that over intellectualize stuff, seemingly just for hte hell of it. i’m happy you read hte dictionary front to back 12 times, but you dont hav eto try to use every word in every book.”
Eggs-act-lee!!
@Panama Jackson,
“i basically hate all of these motherf*ckers that over intellectualize stuff, seemingly just for hte hell of it. i’m happy you read hte dictionary front to back 12 times, but you dont hav eto try to use every word in every book.”
Yeah, it’s more about appearing smarter than the average Joe than actually getting their message out. You can tell with certain folks. It reeks of superiority. And superiority smells like new car smell.
@Panama Jackson, once again, just playing devil’s advocate here, but…
i agree, med hides behind big words. but when i was younger, my parents MADE me read the dictionary and thesaurus. they wanted to cultivate my vocabulary and ensure that i could speak with words containing more than one syllable, lol. but seriously, it almost seems as though you’re saying that using big words is a bad thing. i think if you have honest command of an expanded vocabulary, by all means use it. i’m not gonna go around dumbing down my sentences b/c some people may not understand what i’m saying. i’m also not gonna go around using big words obnoxiously when it doesn’t make any sense.
i had a point there somewhere…
@A Plus, big words aren’t a bad thing. its how you use them thats the problem. same thing with pr0n.
and if in your use of said big words, you basically confused the f*ck out people who can read, how much command do you really have of them.
i think MED obnoxiously uses big words. effective communication is the key to everything in life, right?
if the smartest people can’t understand what you’re saying than you are not effectively communicating. thats my point.
i love big words. hell, i’m a lugubriously loquacious cat.
@Panama Jackson,
My fav writes Stokely, Greenlee, Ice berg Slim
@moks, p.s. i’ve been to a couple of well read intellectual white people’s houses and i have NEVER seen a dyson book on their bookshelf.
ditto
I think Erykah Badu said it best,
“What good do your words do, if they can’t understand you?”
I think some overly educated black folk like to write things that your average reader can’t understand…they enjoy it. And then turn around and wonder why “black folk don’t read”. Seriously? If they don’t understand, why would they? On the other hand, some folk don’t read…well because they can’t *enter Trey Songz at the BET Awards*…WHAM!!
People like Dyson write these overly verbose, 200 pages full of not a damn thing for the same reason professors write Finance books…simply to attempt to impress other muh suckas who write overly verbose shizz!!
I’ll pass….tell me some shizz I don’t know…and speak English!!
@This Just In…, On the other hand, some folk don’t read…well because they can’t *enter Trey Songz at the BET Awards*…
I thought it was just me that noticed that! Somebody, ANYBODY, get that man hooked on phonics STAT!
@CoCoPuffs, i get the feeling that quite a few artists can’t actually read. hell, r. kelly is basically functionally literate. not that he signs his name “X” or anything but i get the impression that if he and fantasia were to ever do a book reading…
there’d be lots of starting and stopping.
“what does this word say? can you help me?”
“um, it says Fantasia.”
“that’s how you spell my name? cool!”
@Panama Jackson,
see, why you had to bring Fantasia in to this…LMAO!!!
@Panama Jackson,
WRONG on so many levels. But, I’m sure you don’t wanna be right. Which is why you da best Panda Manda.
@CoCoPuffs,
Nah, that makes 3 of us. He needs the “Zoolander Center for kids who don’t read good but want to learn to do other things good too”.
He still fine tho
@Me fail english?,
“Nah, that makes 3 of us. He needs the “Zoolander Center for kids who don’t read good but want to learn to do other things good too”.”
HAHAHA! Perfect.
@This Just In…, maybe their books aren’t for the average reader. who is the average reader anyway? i would guess that med and cornel west aren’t writing for the average reader, but rather people that are at or near their intellectual level. i’ll prolly get shot down for this, but if you have a college education, you should be able to understand what they write; may not like it, and may recognize that most of it is babble, but you should be able to understand.
note: i see both sides of this argument. i’ve said repeatedly that med hides behind big words, but people are acting like it’s bad to use/know such “big words”. should we be teaching our children that they should have an elaborate vocabulary? are big words just for white people?
@A Plus, i meant: should we be teaching our children that they SHOULDN’T have an elaborate vocabulary?
@A Plus,
maybe their books aren’t for the average reader.
I was about to say that. Not everything is meant for everybody. If they keep writing, that means there is somebody who gets it… and that somebody was the intended audience.
For the record, I’ve never read any of these folks’ literature… but the term “Target Audience” does exist for some reason.
Like I know for sure, I am not the target audience of Zane, so I am not going to be upset when she writes like a 5th grader.
however I do like Cornel West.. I dont know why.. I think he is just old and has decided he gone say whatever the hell he wants to now.. and tries to intentionally confuse people and watch their reactions…
@shay_d_lady,
“and tries to intentionally confuse people and watch their reactions”
LOL! He usually doesn’t confuse me, but sometimes I get the sense he’s trying to and gets pleasure out of it. Ever seen him make a point and then hop back into his B-boy stance?! Loves it.
my whole thing is, the higher the degree the less connected we seem to be to the rest of our community. esp phd black folks who have been in research with no human touch for about a decade doing their studies. there is no way they can be the voice of the people when they dont know nor can relate to the people. and i dont think its just an issue amongst those that have higher degrees (coming from someone with a masters)..its a issue amongst those so unsafe and uncomfortable with who they are that they feel the way to secure themselves is by speaking the loudest and shaking the ground more than others; meanwhile the ones walking soft and listening versus talking all the damn time are the ones making the most impact…
p.s. panama..love the site!!
@E Marshall,
Hmm. INteresting point. Since I don’t have an advanced degree I cant say I disagree. Only that I’d be inclined to believe that people (of any race) who endure the voluntary isolation that is advanced studies were already somewhat disconnected from “the masses”. Doctorates are more for the patrician class than the proletariat, maybe?
@E Marshall, awww…sup homey.
the site loves you back.
that is a good poitn about disconnect too. a lot of academics write books basedon other people’s studies in the midst of their research.
thats why i used to go to the strip club all the time. if i’m gonna write about hofessionalism, i’m gonna make sure i do all the necessary and pertinent reserach.
@Panama Jackson, what a trooper! right there down in the trenches of the skrip club….
don’t eat the buffet there, however, i hear it sucks (not as much as Tangy Hoa, The Hawaiian Stripper but you know what I mean)
@E Marshall, it’s settled then:
people, stop getting these advanced degrees!! shoulda never given you ninjas intellectual curiosity!!!
@A Plus,
I am relieved I am not the only one getting this vibe from the comments today. It felt a bit twilight zon-ish…
@A Plus, I’ve often said that the Internet hasn’t been the same since Rent-A-Center started selling computers
@E Marshall,
So what’s the solution? People stopping to have phD’s in the name of “staying connected”?
I am not quite sure I understand today’s topic at all. (I am slow like that)
@Sula,
“So what’s the solution? People stopping to have phD’s in the name of “staying connected”?”
most likely not…
but setting some kind of time aside to volunteer within the community we love so much, so that we stay connected and continue to understand our people without undue judgment and cynicism…
maybe so
…at least that’s what i’m getting from the tone of the post and comments so far
@peachi,
* nods head *
that’s exactly it. i’m not sure where people are getting some of this stuff today….
I have never heard of these people being cast as Black Folks new leaders by White America. And I have not been under a rock.
These people write their opinions to be heard (and perhaps paid like everyone else)…they’re like azzholes, every has one.
I view them like they are on the Bill Maher show…everyone can and should be challenged until they have proven themselves.
Agree to disagree. Taking it personal isn’t going to solve anything, action will.
1,
LC
@Lady Chi, perhaps those specific people i mentioned (bill cosby though is considered a black leader) dont ring bells as leaders all the time, but lets not pretend that when an opinion is requested on Black America, the usual suspets come into play, and folks tend to look toward academia for that purpose. nowadays anyway.
hell there’s a reason it was a big deal when harvards black studies staff was defecting ot princeton b/c it signaled the black braintrusts move elsewhere.
@Lady Chi, wowsers. i couldn’t agree with you more.
we are –>.<– on this
@Lady Chi,
Pretty much.
One more thing….
“….I hate overly educated Black folks…” Interesting…if this was, “I hate under educated Black folks” all hell would break lose.
There is no winning for losing on either end….there is already a state of regression and discension concerning the Black race.
Careful Brotha…..you would be no better.
1,
LC
@Lady Chi, hate overly educated Black folks…” Interesting…if this was, “I hate under educated Black folks” all hell would break lose.
I know speaking for me personally, I am not saying Ihate people who pursue degrees.. I am saying who for whatever reason think that their pursuit of degrees makes them an expert on black people and black america… that use those degrees to stand above and removed from black america and pass around condemnation and theory but offer no real insight or answers and whose only real agenda is to use the problems and ills of regular black folk to their own advantage…
this is not a condemnation of the pursuit of higher education….
@shay_d_lady,
Yeah I think that’s what Pan Pan meant. Hence use of the term “overly”. I think we’d all agree there’s no such thing as learning too much.
Also, I’m not sure “I hate undereducated black folks” would cause such a stir. I was raised by and around them and I wish them ninjas would crack a book my damn self.
@Lady Chi, i’m not sure folks would take issue with that statement either. not here anyway. though, i guess it depends on who’s saying it and i suppose the delivery.
and even now, when i say overly, i assume most peope understand what im talking about b/c of the examples i gave.
context is everything.
@Panama Jackson,
Exactly.
It goes both ways doesn’t it?
I agree with you. As unfortunate as it is, the “other” people have been the ones to choose who our leaders are. For instance, whoever gave Jesse Jackson the “black leader” stamp of approval should be b*tch slapped…hard. It’s like there is such a depressed state among our kind that we don’t even care anymore about looking to our own people for leadership and insight. It’s easier to let someone else define those people for us.
Example: I live in Michigan. Most of us on VSB have heard about the shenanigans going on in politics in the not-so-great city of Detroit. In the past 4 years, we’ve had more scandals than Maury Povich during a 30 minute show (even though he’s running a close second). Our city “leaders” are out here skimming money from the school budget, taking bribes, buying navigators with city taxes, and having phone sex through city-paid phones. They are taking bribes to give one company a higher bid over another over picking up our trash. It’s simply RIDICULOUS. And in the mean time, the city is losing revenue and residents. We had so many school closings last year that kids are dropping out involuntarily. There’s just nowhere to go! And this is supposed to be an up and coming metropolitan area. A few years back, Detroit was on the right track. We hosted the Superbowl, had the Country H03 Down and had several other events that brought masses of people to the city. But now, all people want to do is run away. And that’s because our “leaders” are mis-managing the city. So, why look for black leaders when we don’t really have much to choose from?
As far as having any black leaders, I will venture to say Obama is one on my list. I don’t know much about the life and times of Martin Luther tha Kang, but I do know that Obama is aspiring for something not much unlike that of King, Jr. Obama wants change, but wanting it is not what puts him on my list. He is making changes, he is striving for change and he is working towards change. Even if all the hype from his election to office had died down, I think he ignited a fire in the black community.
@Ashley Neicole, whoever gave Jesse Jackson the “black leader” stamp of approval should be b*tch slapped…
now Jesse has fallen off.. but he did at one time rightfully earn the “black leader” title in my opinion.. now he is out of touch and irrelevent and his anger and disappointment at himself, his career etc has led him to try and remain relevent in any and everyway possible which has in turn made him the very sad, has been that we see now.. but Jesse at one time was in the trenches…..smh
@shay_d_lady, possibly. jesse has always seemed like hte biggest opportunist ever to me.
he’s like the longest running unemployed unpoor person in history. and he always seems to be at the scene of the crime.
jesse is smokey the bear.
@Panama Jackson,
betta watch it he likes ta cut ninja balls off in shii lol
@Ashley Neicole,
“Martin Luther tha Kang”
It’s pronounced “Loofah”, dear.
Martin Loofah da Kang, Jr.
That makes me so sad for Detroit. Are these carpetbaggers destroyinh the city? If it’s natives, that makes it all the more tragic.
@Me fail english?,
These are native Detroiters destroying the city. They all come from the same pseudo-elitist crowd.
@Me fail english?,
“Martin Loofah da Kang, Jr.”
I desperate want to see an informercial selling a loofah with MLK’s head as the brush now.
Wait, that would be wrong. Nevermind.It would crack my soul up.@Me fail english?,
The economy aint helpin places like mich who make cars an shi
@Ashley Neicole,
I am from and I live in Detroit. The choice of leaders we have here are pathetic. Another problem is that the people that won’t let these people get away with what they do have left the city. It doesnt help that most of the population here are poor to working class factory workers. You have a large voting block that is not educated and the @ssholes take advantage of it. It hurts me to see Detroit fall off the way it has. It pisses me off even more because these government officials do all this wrong knowing how dire the situation is in the city.
There are so few “black leaders” because no one worth a damn wants the title. The people qualified to be leaders want to be leaders, not marginalized to speaking for the race. Obama, Deval Patrick, Corey Booker, etc. want the whole pie, not just the black slice. And why wouldn’t they? All “black leaders” do is play the villain on Fox News, show up at Jena 6 events to rail against racism, and basically play media whores. To actually do some leadership which gets results would require taking the black community to task for their failings in a way that doesn’t alienate the community or excuse repression and racism. That’s too fine a line to walk with too little reward. If you’re mayor, governor, or president, you get to build tremendous wealth building opportunities once you’re out of office. But the black community isn’t going to really contribute anything to your future no matter how hard you get out in the streets and work for it. No real estate joint ventures, no book deals, no cushy job on the board of directors at a bond-trading firm. I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for someone actually qualified to take that job to take it.
@Brandon St. Randy,
“All “black leaders” do is play the villain on Fox News, show up at Jena 6 events to rail against racism, and basically play media whores.”
Amen, Dapz, and a Co-sign on that statement! Also, “its all about money, aint a damn thing funny..” Some say crazy shii to apease the Man… hopefully sell to books and make a profit from their lectures and whatnot.
@aja, hopefully sell to books and make a profit from their lectures and whatnot.
agreed. but that’s what these “black intellectuals” are supposed to do. it’s their job. seriously. most of them (well med and west) are tenured professors, which means they gotta write books/publish stuff, speak, etc. that’s their hustle. and i respect that. i don’t think they’ve proclaimed to be anything other than that, but rather, the media/society has turned to them to be things other than that. i mean, bill maher or bill oreilly ain’t bout to ask tyrone from round the way about the state of black america. so who do they turn to? that princeton professor that has a lot of books on the shelves at barnes and noble, that’s who.
@A Plus,
word up
@Brandon St. Randy,
. To actually do some leadership which gets results would require taking the black community to task for their failings in a way that doesn’t alienate the community or excuse repression and racism. That’s too fine a line to walk with too little reward .
Exactly!!! Being a leader in the black community is a HARD job. Like you said you have to be able to point our failures while at the same time gaining acceptance.
To be honest, it was easier to be a leader and inspire back in the day, when the fight was mainly against the “white man”. We are now dealing with the long-term effects of slavery, racisim and discrimination. The division of our own communities. It’s a hard battle to fight.
@Brandon St. Randy, yeah, i think you’re pretty much right, thru and thru.
@Brandon St. Randy,
I concur. Plus leaders get shot at.
@Monk,
Why did this make me think of Chris Rock in “Head of State?”
@Brandon St. Randy, Obama, Deval Patrick, Corey Booker, etc. want the whole pie, not just the black slice. And why wouldn’t they?
so true. so very, very true, and i couldn’t agree with you more, and i don’t blame them one bit
if obama wanted to be a “black leader”, he would not be at 1600 pennsylvania ave right now.
@Brandon St. Randy,
To actually do some leadership which gets results would require taking the black community to task for their failings in a way that doesn’t alienate the community or excuse repression and racism.
Agreed.
**checking calendar to confirm its Friday**
hmm this is kind of heavy for a Friday convo… going to bed be back in the morning
@Intellectual Hedonist, what? us VSBs cant actually earn our title from time to time on a Friday?
@Intellectual Hedonist,
It’s somethin’ about today. I saw this super long line at Dunkin’ Donuts today. Usually that long of a line is reserved for Mondays. AND it’s supposed to thunderstorm today. What a heavy day.
@Cheekie,
its in the 80′s in cali lol
@BLUNTBLAZER,
*throat crane kick*
It’s in the 80s here too nicca (or it will be)…it just cancels itself out because it’s gonna be a thunderstorm. I HATE when it rains while it’s hot. Then that stank ho humidity breezes on through.
@BLUNTBLAZER,
*throat punch*
It was 106 yesterday here in my neck ‘o the woods…I thought I saw Satan himself chillin’ drinking a glass of lemonade on my balcony.
@miss t-lee,
I swear I don’t even bother opening my blinders anymore. It stays 90 degrees all the way up to friggin’ 10pm.
*smh*
@ Sula,
You’re the only who feels my pain chickie.
I’ve abandonded my evening walks since it’s still 98 at 9pm.
1. “And I’m not a hater because I think Alicia Keys is overrated. H*ll, she is.” Precisely.
2. I’m offended at the very idea of the black community needing a “leader.” WTF!? Are we a herd of sheep now? Because I didn’t know we were a herd of sheep right now. What other race of people is deemed to need a “leader”? And I don’t mean that in disrespect of any Black public figure who has made a difference in the world.
But Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, for example, was not a “black leader.” He was someone who, along with countless others, changed American history and made the world take notice. Malcolm X wasn’t a “black leader,” he was a nonconformist and revolutionary. President Obama is not a “black leader,” either, because he’s the leader of the Free World. And as to the Bill Cosby’s and Eric Michael Dyson’s of the world, they are what they are: entertainers and writers/theorists (whatever) with something to say. I don’t see white people looking to Jerry Seinfeld to provide them with a way out of the darkness. I think the idea of us needing a “leader” is an antiquated, Jim Crow a**ed, covert a**ed, yt power a**ed device that needs to go to h*ll.
3. “So why is it that I cannot understand for the life of me what the hell these bastards are talking about half of the time? Reading should not be a labor. ” Exactly.
@charli skipper,
I’m offended at the very idea of the black community needing a “leader.” WTF!? Are we a herd of sheep now?
TOTALLY agree with this….no one expects any one person or group of persons to speak for the whole white community (or any other community) …even the idea of that is pure lunacy
@klysha, its too many of them. they like roaches.
jokes.
at times i think we do need leaders but its b/c we’re a marginalized group, which means the vast majority of us aren’t being heard under any circumstances. sometimes you do need somebody (even if it has to be Al or Jesse) with a platform that can reach the masses. even if they’re not saying what you want, at least somebody is listening to what they are saying.
then again, if everybody ALSO tunes those people out b/c they cry wolf in a crowded theater…lol…then i guess it doesn’t matter.
@charli skipper,
Preach, Jesse (Charli)!
@charli skipper, 2. I’m offended at the very idea of the black community needing a “leader.” WTF!? Are we a herd of sheep now? Because I didn’t know we were a herd of sheep right now. What other race of people is deemed to need a “leader”? And I don’t mean that in disrespect of any Black public figure who has made a difference in the world.
But Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, for example, was not a “black leader.” He was someone who, along with countless others, changed American history and made the world take notice. Malcolm X wasn’t a “black leader,” he was a nonconformist and revolutionary. President Obama is not a “black leader,” either, because he’s the leader of the Free World. And as to the Bill Cosby’s and Eric Michael Dyson’s of the world, they are what they are: entertainers and writers/theorists (whatever) with something to say. I don’t see white people looking to Jerry Seinfeld to provide them with a way out of the darkness. I think the idea of us needing a “leader” is an antiquated, Jim Crow a**ed, covert a**ed, yt power a**ed device that needs to go to h*ll.
*slow clap*
this comment should be required reading for everyone.
@A Plus,
its not that we need a leader. People become leader or get that title because people believe in the same things and support the man/leader they fallow he becomes a leader.
um. WHERE is my comment? I guess that it’s going to post like 47 times when it’s out of moderation, as that’s how many times I pressed the “submit” button…….my sincerest apologies–in advance. lol
@charli skipper, the champ ate it. i had to Heimlich maneuver it out of him. sorry for the inconvenience!
Good post P! I swear the VSBs just get better and better wit’ it
Ummmm. I don’t look at any of these pundits, commentators, “activists”, reverends, intellectuals, or any of them as leaders. Jesse may have used to be one – but he fell OFF in the 80′s and has only been leading himself to the money. I do have some respect for Bill Cosby – i don’t like some of the things he says, but I think some of the things he says are valid. I think MED writes books for people like himself -he’s an academic writitng books for other academics…they may say they are for the general public – but 90% of the population will put that shyt down after the second page. I tried to read I May Not Get There With You too and found it to be a difficult read… and came to a similar conclusion.
Ne who, these folks may have used to be on the grind for everyday people – but seem to have just lost the way. They got the good plate of food from massa’s table and kept eating – leaving the rest of us behind. Idk. It’s a funny thing about leadership though – I like what Mahatma Gandhi said. He said “Be the Change you want to see.” We can all be leaders, imho. We don’t need one person to shout it down from the pulpit and then be crowned a “leader.” Barack Obama is a leader – but I think it’s his office that gives him that authority. I think he’s a brilliant man who was bent on sharing his gifts with the world. Like he’s humble and would just as easily sit and have dinner with a bus driver and think nothing of it. We all have that capacity.
@pgh muse,
“I think MED writes books for people like himself -he’s an academic writitng books for other academics…”
You’re giving him too much credit ED! I dont wanna sound like a Dyson hater. I really dont have much of an opinion on him either way. But he had to know when he showed up for a panel with Nelly, TI and Melyssa Ford that his audience changed a little. He was still talking that ish and had the nerve to throw in a few bars of (not so) hot fiyah. It’s possible he was tryna make a point to the black community about how educated he was and how worthy he was of our support. I think its more likely he’s just not a great communicator that happens to know a lot of big words. Sometimes the way he stutters makes me believe he’s speaking faster than he can think.
End result= “Da hell r u talmbout, Eric?”
@Me fail english?, lmao @ MED stuttering his way thru a panel discussion w/ Nelly and TI at the other end of the table.
Thanks for the reality check, ED.
End result= “Da hell r u talmbout, Eric?”— Point taken.
@pgh muse, i think the gandhi quote sums it all up for me…
i often view being a leaders as just being a positive reflection on my community on a daily basis. in fact, its why i stopped shooting people. it left a contradictory message.
now i only shoot squirrels.
@Panama Jackson,
lol @ u pulling drive-bys on alvin and the chipmunks… u wear dickies, locs, and a red or blue rag when ur out creepin’ on the rodents?
@Panama Jackson, ohhhhh. peta gonna get you
1. Barack Obama: He’s educated but yet down to earth. And Jeezy made a song about him (joking about that last part)
2. Russell Simmons: He and his lisp are doing pretty good. Have you seen the Rev Run show? He cusses like a muh and talks like your gangsta uncle, but he’s still respected by the 2520s…. and philanthropic.
@Nicki Sunshine, its hard for me to take Russell Simmons seriously about anything.
i blame the Rush Card.
@Panama Jackson, LMAO. That card is (*yikes*) bad form. I have to agree with u about that. Will the waiter take you seriously in a swanky restaurant if you slap down a BabyPhat adorned “credit” card?
@Nicki Sunshine,
Hahaha! For real. I love how he’s all, “In today’s world you need plastic”. Okay, so why you tryin’ to bamboozle folks with your fake version of plastic?!
@Cheekie, Exactly! More like get us embarassed. He know he is not using it!
@Nicki Sunshine, wait a minute. so the rush card is for real? legit? like, i can apply for one? i may have to do so for kicks and giggles.
@A Plus, I promise I saw it advertised on none other than BET. Lol.
@Panama Jackson,
“its hard for me to take Russell Simmons seriously about anything.”
Maybe it’s because he dresses like an overgrown toddler.
That’s my reason.
*can’t knock his hustle though.
@miss t-lee,
And because his face looks like it’s saying, “I’m mellllting, mellllting, oh what a world, what a world!!”
@Cheekie,
This is so wrong. Funny, yet so wrong.
@Cheekie,
lol. he does have a runny face….
@Cheekie, EWWWW. Like the Scream! mask???
@Nicki Sunshine,
“EWWWW. Like the Scream! mask???”
HAHA! Yes.
@Nicki Sunshine,
russ is the ultimate hustla dude makes bills and always bags the baddest bishes and makes um overnight celebs
@BLUNTBLAZER, I definitely respect his gangsta…. plus he’s got his hand in all kinds of charity.
I see exactly where you’re going. When I meet someone who used 17 syllables to say something they could say in one, I raise a brow. These people are typically trying to subconsciously prove their educational worth. I have also found that they usually don’t have a degree–at least in this area. As for Black leader, I don’t think Bill fits that. He doesn’t use big words. As a matter of fact, he only says louder what we’ve said on blogs and in drunken conversations many, many times. Who are our Black leaders? All us of. Every single person who isn’t playing to stereotypes. Every single person who is a touchable example for others.
@Hostess, Who are our Black leaders? All us of. Every single person who isn’t playing to stereotypes. Every single person who is a touchable example for others.
and the VSB Inspirational Award of the Day goes to…HOSTESS!!!!
@Panama Jackson, I’m inspirational and shyt! Go me!!!
@Hostess,
“Who are our Black leaders? All us of. Every single person who isn’t playing to stereotypes. Every single person who is a touchable example for others.”
I agree with this wholeheartedly. The people we see on a day-to-day basis are more affected by us than the actions of any distant leader/role-model/icon/figure-head. It’s just a matter of us recognizing that…
Black America is still the only group of people who have “representation”. You don’t see a Sun Yung Sharpton, Jose Jackson, Chaing Shi A Cos A Bee….when you say something stupid about any other group of people, they don’t run out some questionable mofo who only show up when it’s LIGHTS CAMERA ACTION time.
But we still holding on to these fools like we owe them something. No, we don’t. When has a Jackson/Sharpton assist wielded any positive results. MLK killed Jim Crow, Jesse busted nuts. Al Shaprton been on Law & Order and in the movie Mr. Deeds, you never saw MLK on BEWITCHED (Mrs. Kravitz, there’s witchery afoot!) or Malcolm X on WAGON TRAIN.
Negroes getting beat up and mistreated all over America and the only time you see Jesse and Al is when it goes national and/or they can work a backroom deal that will line their pockets. Mother Teresa lived in the slums of India her whole life, these two fools living in the suburbs and never had a job between them…Mother Teresa up in Heaven, mad.
@T. Troy Stewart, Yuuup. I was just about to mention: Why does no one ever ask where the Asian leaders are or where the Hispanic leaders are. Like you niggers STILL need an overseer!
@Brandon St. Randy,
“Like you n*ggers STILL need an overseer!”
Apparently.
This statement is what many foreigners and people of other races I’ve spoken with thinks about us.
@T. Troy Stewart,
“You don’t see a Sun Yung Sharpton, Jose Jackson, Chaing Shi A Cos A Bee”
*Giggling* OK, ya got me there
@T. Troy Stewart, i feel you but i do think that other cultures do have “leaders” they may just not be as prominent on the mass stage as some of ours. i think we’re just a loud people in general.
@Panama Jackson, I agree with you. We have plenty of leaders that keep it on the down low, too. (wait, I didn’t mean it that way…) Jesse and Al just make it so extra.
@T. Troy Stewart,
Negroes getting beat up and mistreated all over America and the only time you see Jesse and Al is when it goes national and/or they can work a backroom deal that will line their pockets.
i love you for this. they only time these fools show up is when they can be on television and the national spotlight. that’s why they were all over the Jackson family after MJ’s death. my sister asked me last night how did Rev. Al know MJ?
and i quit Rev. Al when he went down to florida to protest the unfair treatment of the Dunbar Village rape/torture defendants. i am officially through with him, and all of the rest of them who only speak out when the cameras are on….
@N.I.A. LivingLifeOffTheWall…., my sister asked me last night how did Rev. Al know MJ?
al used to be james brown’s tourn manager or something like that. james was mj’s idol (well, one of them). so their paths crossed quite frequently actually. and when james brown died, mj was extremely distraught, and al arranged for mj to spend a great deal of time with james before the funeral and all that. so in this situation, i don’t think al was being opportunistic at all. he and mj were actually closer than we thought/knew. i mean, we don’t know everything that goes on in the private lives of these folks, ya dig.
@A Plus,
well thanks for that little history lesson regarding Rev. Al and MJ. and you are right, we don’t know anything about their private lives…we only get to see the mess they put on display in public. at least this time, it was legitimate. i’m curious, where did you get that little piece of info?
@N.I.A. LivingLifeOffTheWall….,
4 real was up wit jesse jackson hangin around tha jacksons is he they cousin or sumthin? Did yall see him checkin out Janet ? or was i tha only one?
@N.I.A. LivingLifeOffTheWall…., i remember reading about it after james brown’s death, and they told the story again on cnn a few days ago, i think. or maybe they were talkin to al about it and he was talkin bout it…
@N.I.A. LivingLifeOffTheWall…., I was really done with Al when he was down in Puerto Rico getting arrested over bombing one one of the islands there. I didn’t know that there were “hoods” down that way. It was just so out of character for Al. My conclusion was that dude either getting paid or had him a PR hot thang he was trying to impress.
And remember that lady that had been on life support for years and her family didn’t want her taken off the respirators? Jessay was there and I was like “really, Jessay? really?” or when he showed up at THE SOURCE AWARDS lol….come on now.
@T. Troy Stewart,
“Black America is still the only group of people who have “representation”. You don’t see a Sun Yung Sharpton, Jose Jackson, Chaing Shi A Cos A Bee….when you say something stupid about any other group of people, they don’t run out some questionable mofo who only show up when it’s LIGHTS CAMERA ACTION time. ”
Great point. It’s funny how when ninjas do negative things, we always cry about how it “represents all of us”, but not so much when a ninja speaks for us positively…because even though it’s positive, they’re not necessarily speaking for all Black folk. It may not be so bad as the former since it’s a positive light, but I think having one person represent an entire array of sub-cultures just because the color of their skin is similar isn’t too wise or productive. Though it’s great we can all relate to each other and join together due to a single event, being Black isn’t necessarily a universal experience.
@T. Troy Stewart,
I will confess to not being that well informed about leadership in the hispanic community besides one big name, Bill Richardson, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist or there aren’t people who talk to them, about them, etc. I think this is just a case of minority communities being relatively isolated from each other.
So, yes, there is a Jose Sharpton or Sun Yung Jackson out there.
@kamakula, my point is that we no longer need these carpetbaggers/trusty types like Jesse and Al. They are opportunists and a mockery on those who have the best interest of their communities.
I saw someone comment on how big corporations will call either one of these donkeys in to alleviate a situation and I agree with that. Everyone will relax and unclench when Jesse and/or Al arrive, they will find the nearest cameras, speak their typical “we are going to get to the bottom of this matter” and then head upstairs to “take it to the man”.
Ask yourself this, when was the last time you ever seen Jesse or Al negotiate a thing out in public in front of everyone? The next time will be the first time for me.
It’s like when these two go backroom, they yuk it up, have a few drinks, negotiate a deal, play some checkers to kill time and then come out and say “everything is alright” and they are off to the next high profile situation and you’re wondering WTF just happened because the s*it is barely any better than it was before they got there….
@T. Troy Stewart,
I’m not sure what you mean by “in public”. If you mean outside with cameras watching – nobody does that. The civil rights act was drafted with people working inside a room away from cameras and everything else. It is public because we have a record of what was produced, people talked about the agreements and disagreements they had. If we use that standard, then yes, things that Jesse has done are public.
Your labeling of them as opportunists is hollow unless you have specific evidence to back up that charge. If Geico calls Jesse to come mediate when something goes down and he responds, that does not make him an opportunist. If a Geico van hits a black kid out in the woods and nobody is around to see it, and Jesse somehow finds out and goes to Geico and the media and makes a huge fuss that only he can make go away, then he’d be an opportunist.
From the point of a Jesse, I’m not sure what is worse, that the community has fractured to the point where huge amounts of people feel he can no longer represent them, or having to decide whether to tell people outside the community who call him to mediate that the community is too fractured for any one person to facilitate healing.
@kamakula, you compare the “backroom” dealings of the Civil Rights Movements to what Jesse and Al do today?
The March On Washington
The Marches From Selma To Montgomery
A Letter From Birmingham Jail
The Lunchcounter protests….etc….etc…etc….
The results from the Civil Rights Movement we reap every single day. I am very happy that “Jim Crow” is just a historical term and not the way things are. Their “backroom” deals made our lives better/possible. Jesse and Al? Not so much.
As for the “labeling of them as opportunists”, I bet you I can make an better argument for them being opportunists than the civil rights leaders that some make them out to be.
@T. Troy Stewart,
Part of the problem now is while we may be able to agree on a few issues that uniformly plague the black community, the solutions to these problems largely do not require large national demonstrations.
If we all march on Washington tomorrow, how would that fix the ghetto in Alabama? These were huge demonstrations that focused national attention on an issue that was common throughout America.
We don’t discount the work done by people during that time within their cities and communities just because it did not get to the national stage and spotlight. Just because Jesse’s mission does not encompass all the problems in the black community does not make him any less of a leader.
Also, leader or not, we have become a people of “that’s not my problem” or “well, somebody else is going to do it”. Makes it hard for any one person to garner that kind of support it takes to launch a national campaign to change something such as police brutality.
In fact, in such a situation, we need a patchwork of leaders, something that can be hard to accomplish when we are deciding that because nobody is “big” enough, we won’t recognize anyone.
@kamakula, I want the Sun Yung Jackson of North Korea to come help us out because they trippin’ over there…
@T. Troy Stewart, only show up when it’s LIGHTS CAMERA ACTION time.
you know, i’ve wondered about this. like, did al run down to jena, thinking “oh, i’ma go down there so i can get some prime time shine, *after* i get my edges touched up, of course”, or did the people in jena call al down there cuz he knew that he would gain national attention for the issue??
@A Plus, I have a Jesse “Jackal” story….
1995 Phoenix, the NBA All-Star Game. I was, along with the six other black folks that were living in Phoenix at that time, were out front of America West Arena, protesting against the Phoenix PD, over one of their goons choking a young brother to death. That was bad, the brotha didn’t have any legs, having lost them in an accident a few years before…that was worse. Dude Radio Raheem’d a brotha with no legs. Why? Where was he gonna run? He wasn’t going to kick your ass…
Anyway….
We were out there protesting this bulls*it when none other than “Jessay” shows up. He shook some hands, commandeered the local TV cameras and made his usual “I will be here to get to the bottom of this” spiel and hung out….until right before “tip-off” time.
Jessay Jackal had tickets to the game and he had to go. Power to the people! Keep hope alive! Did I miss the slam dunk contest?
He was gone and nobody never heard from him again. Fool should have toughed it out. The family wound up winning a nice amount of money in a court settlement, maybe they would have broke him off something…
@T. Troy Stewart,
wow…i’m not surprised, though. smh
@T. Troy Stewart,
Not that it has anything to do with anything, but I just need to say I saw “Blazin Saddles” on AMC last night: HILARIOUS!
*now that I think of it, it’s kind of appropriate for today’s topic. Afterall, Bart was a black leader
*
@Sula, LOL the first five minutes of Blazing Saddles is classic, right up there with the Rick James Charlie Murphy True Hollywood Stories LOL
yeah, Bart was a reluctant leader LOL
I don’t know. I watched and bought Tavis’ STAND documentary. Maybe the inner Black Panther in me got it, but something about that documentary and the insight just helped me understand the Triad (Dyson, Tavis, and West.) Leaders, I’d say they are. There is always going to be some way to take issue with what they are/aren’t doing, h3ll, folks said MLK was too lenient and X too militant.
I will agree, that Dyson sometimes comes off like a stuffier KRS-One, but there are times where he hits the J, and stands there with his hand still in the air (shout out to White Men Can’t Jump).
Now, the more I read/hear about Dr. Melissa Harris-Lacewell, the more impressed I am. I’m going to leave that alone now, my mind started to go somewhere rac(ier).
Do we WANT a leader? I think that’s the bigger question. From what I’ve noticed, I think we’ve become far to opinionated and individualistic to want a leader. I’m not saying that to be negative, I’m saying that to be real. Maybe the changes that the CRM (Civil Rights Movement) helped to usher in gave us the freedom to stop giving a collective darn and enabled us to start being free and content…in some kind of -I can drink from any water fountain now, so I now dehydration is an option, not a result of location-type of thinking.
I don’t know, don’t mind me.
@Saule Wright, i’ve read very interesting takes on the Civil Rights Movement and what impact it really had on Black America. there’s some good lit out there that says it actually caused as many problems as it solved.
and everybody knows what happened when integration hit.
@Panama Jackson,
and everybody knows what happened when integration hit.
yes we do…or atleast we should.
@Panama Jackson, and everybody knows what happened when integration hit.
and yall might not like him, but I heard Rev Al talk about this on that HBO special and he said.. integration does not and has not meant equal rights….
@Panama Jackson, De-Segregation threw the black community into a caste system of the haves/have nots.
I think that MLK saw this coming and was starting to take on the economic racism in the country next when he was assassinated. It’s been all up hill ever since.
@T. Troy Stewart,
“blacks integrating with whites is like integrating into a burning house”
Nice work Panama.
It’s unfair to blame someone’s incomprehensible writing style/speech on education. I’d blame it on a need to prove to the world how smart you are (born out of insecurity.) It is easy to say, “Just be happy with yourself. Stop trying so hard.” However there is always someone out there that is actually testing you or who doesn’t believe that you’ve achieved the level of education you say you did.
Most black folks I know do not consider any of the above mentioned people a “leader.” Sure they are of the black intelligensia but the only people they seem to be able to corral (expect Sharpton) are other members of the black intelligensia. Not the masses.
I would argue that today’s leaders aren’t recognized nationally but are still going about the business of setting the example for our people. Personally I call myself a leader. When I was younger no one (in my ‘hood) was interested in traveling abroad. But through my actions I’ve shown them that the planes usually return at some point. Because of this more parents are allowing their children to travel, no longer letting fear of the unknown dictate their lives. My actions brought about SOME kind of change. Therefore I am a black leader.
So to return to Panama’s question yes there is a gap between those perceived as leaders of the black community and the community itself. But that often happens when you put more effort in to being SEEN by the media than being HEARD by the people.
**completely related to this topic — I love Marion Barry**
@Ms. Hall, Personally I call myself a leader. When I was younger no one (in my ‘hood) was interested in traveling abroad. But through my actions I’ve shown them that the planes usually return at some point. Because of this more parents are allowing their children to travel, no longer letting fear of the unknown dictate their lives. My actions brought about SOME kind of change. Therefore I am a black leader.
Amen Ms. Hall!!!!
@Ms. Hall, But through my actions I’ve shown them that the planes usually return at some point.
that cracked me up something awful.
after reading your post, the only thing i heard was, Lil Trey from Boyz In Tha Hood saying “I’m a LEADER!” when fishburne asked him if he was a leader or a follower.
Has anyone read “Enough” by Juan Williams?
Now that’s a book I can recommend.
Black leaders? Um…I don’t think we have any. Then again, I’m only on the first cup of coffee for today…lol
@miss t-lee,
I’m racist against Juan Williams! Haha…but I’m willing to give it a go.
@Me fail english?,
hahah!!! The book had some good points, like how Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are sometimes paid to show up for their “protests” by some of the big Fortune 500 companies.
In certain parts of the book Juan is a little too cozy on Cosby’s junksack, but otherwise, and interesting read.
@miss t-lee,
i’m sure it’s a good book…
but i’m still mad a Juan for referring to the FLOTUS as Stokely Carmichael in a dress…as if that’s a bad thing… lol. and there are other things he has said that has gone right along with the FOX news racists mentality, they get him to say things, and then say, “well it can’t be racists b/c a black man said it.” i have to give a resounding “BOOOO” to Juan.
@N.I.A. LivingLifeOffTheWall….,
“Stokely Carmichael in a dress”
Oh wow.
I totally missed that.
I don’t totally agree with everything that dude says or writes, but I can extract some of things that actually sense.
I don’t have cable so I only see him on Sundays when they do the Fox News Sunday show, but being as it’s a Fox News show I watch most of it with a permanent side eye until Meet the Press comes on…lol
I used to like Tavis Smiley until he started blowing so much smoke up my arse that I was getting rectum cancer with his constantly hawking his appearances and books every other word out of his mouth and then turning that yearly discussion about Black America on C-SPAN into a 4 hour promo for him and his friends to pimp themselves and whatever else they were hawking AND for his getting salty with President Obama because he wouldn’t appear on the panel of that crap.
Now I see Roland Martin morphing into that same thing that you see the in the likes of Michael Eric Dyson. Not a good look, bruh.
@T. Troy Stewart,
Roland is definitely starting to get on my nerves. and now that they have given him a t.v. show on TVOne, it’s only going to get worse.
@N.I.A. LivingLifeOffTheWall…., I used to follow Roland on Facebook until last week.
the name dropping at the Essensce Music Festival and the self congratulatory back patting on getting the gig on TVONE is one thing but I couldn’t take it anymore after the following….
The fool was on vacation posting/complaining about the response time of President Obama’s commenting about the Death Of Michael Jackson. It wasn’t fast enough or, when he did, personal enough. Then he compared an celebrity condolance that George Dubya Bush had done “better”, to justify his stance.
Dealbreaker. GTFO, Roland.
@T. Troy Stewart,
i know. i follow him on twitter, and he was listed Dubya and another president who came out immediately to comment on some celebs death. GTFOOHWTBS!
he is starting to feel himself much too much….
@T. Troy Stewart,
“Then he compared an celebrity condolance that George Dubya Bush had done “better”, to justify his stance. ”
Wait…WHAAA?
I used to love me some Roland during the Obama campaign with his racial commentary smackdowns and he has the nerve to say the above? *virtual throat punch to Roland*
@T. Troy Stewart, with you all the way.
It’s been forever and a day since I’ve commented on a blog but Panama, boo, you got me quite excited
(innuendo intended) with this one! As a young beautiful black woman finishing her Masters in Education I must agree with Panama! I LOVE Dyson! I’ve seen him speak in person and read a couple of his books but when I have to stop every 5 lines to look up a word that was probably on the GRE list I become very frustrated! Jesus was a man of the people because he was with them and spoke as they spoke!Ghandi spoke so his people knew what the hell he was talking about. West and Dyson burn me up when I get lost in their fast paced east cost (West coast love!)pretentious jargon! My students love when they understand Dysons connections to hip-hop but that can’t be the only way we follow him! I need the other leaders (didn’t ya’ll know I’m a black leader?) to get in the streets (literally and figuratively) and communicate with the people in the language of the people! Thank Panama for allowing me to vent 
@RunBabyRun,
Yes, ma’am! There’s a huge, wide open, middle ground between Ebonics and whatever overly complex argot Dyson speaks. And frankly, I thought he sounded kinda dumb during his talking head stints on BET and CNN.
Full disclosure: I never sat in the class he taught at my school. So maybe he sounds different off-camera.
@Me fail english?, IMO, the black community took a turn for the bad when we started treating rappers/entertainers as leaders in the community instead of what they really are…rappers and entertainers.
@T. Troy Stewart,
like the old skoo Barkley Nike commercial “I am not a role model”……………”I like gettin head and sayin tuuuuuurible”
@Me fail english?
“Argot” . . . hmmmmm, give me a second [running to Merriam Webster . . . http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/argot
Ahhhhhh, ok, true, word, word.
@RunBabyRun, your welcome. your venting and innuendo were much appreciated. lol.
btw, i HATE that Dyson comments on hip-hop so much. however, i ALSO hate the over-intellecutalization of hiphop. im not even really sure why though i think its b/c i feel the authors often miss the mark and go on some retarded tangent that has nothing to do with hiphop.
@Panama Jackson,
I think this shows why the authors “miss the mark”. No offense intended, but I do not accept any one person as being the authority on forms of art. Art is subjective. I’m sure there are people who will find Dysons writing on hip-hop quite refreshing. You just happen to not be one of them. He cannot help but disappoint you in this regard.
In my 33 seconds of editing, I will say this: Nobody can be said to “own” hip-hop, not even those who can claim to have “invented” it.
@kamakula,
Art is subjective
I think this is quite lost on quite a lot of people. Dismissing a certain type of art form as not “up to par” with what you know and love does not make you an expert. It makes a condescending arsehole with no real understanding of what Art truly is: something constantly in motion.
@RunBabyRun, but when I have to stop every 5 lines to look up a word that was probably on the GRE list I become very frustrated!
i dunno, maybe it’s just the nerd in me, but i like it when i come across a new word. most of the time, from the context of the sentence, i have an idea what it means, but i find it refreshing if i have to look a word up. sure, dyson prolly coulda just said used another word that meant the same thing, but now i have a new word in my lexicon. this actually helped me out a lot on the SAT, GRE, and GMAT.
@A Plus,
maybe it’s just the nerd in me
Nerds UNITE!!!
I love the Mother Teresa reference!!! She was definitely a leader of the people! She was there! Yes, we need leaders. These men are leaders but we need a variety of leaders at various levels! We need the leaders that white folks love and we need the ones who know every dude on the block and we need the ones who don’t need a bit of recognition. Oh, we definitely need leaders but they don’t always need to be world renowned…they just need to help our people make moves…however they do it.
great, great topic panama. you’ve had a good week! and i actually agree with you this time…
MED, Cornel, Tavis, Bill, Julianne, etc. have all declared themselves de facto leaders in tbe black community, and b/c the mainstream assumes they are speaking for all of us
and b/c white people think we all walk, talk, think the same and have the exact same experiences, and puts them on a pedestal, giving them an outlet to educate the masses on out plight, or in Bill’s case, put a black face to everything white people believe about us, all while ignoring present and historical road blocks in our community.The only problem is, these people are not speaking for the majority of us. And now that we have a black POTUS, all of these so called leaders are gaining in popularity with the MSM as the voice of black America. About a month ago, MED complained that the POTUS is not doing enough for the black community, and specifically not doing enough for MED himself (http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2009/05/michael-eric-dyson-vs-barack-obama/). then Cornell states in a Rolling Stones article that he wouldn’t accept a role in Obama’s administration(as if the POTUS would want him), and he states that “I’ll go into the crack house before I ever go that far inside.”(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elon-james-white/thats-whats-wrong-with-bl_b_214527.html). Then, you have Tavis, who is still mad at the POTUS for not attending his negro superbowl, and now he is pimping that situation and black folks who don’t know any better by writing a book about holding the POTUS accountable…which is interesting since Wells Fargo is the main sponsor of his negro superbowl. i wonder if he has written a book about holding Wells Fargo accountable for racist home lending practices. smh…
I say all that just to point out that these people and others are using the black community for their own personal agendas and to advance their own celebrity. They are not leading anyone, but they are making money by writing books, talking loud, and pretending to be experts in all things black, while the MSM looks to them to inform mainstream america(2520s) how black people are feeling and what black people are thinking, not just about the POTUS, but about life in general.
@N.I.A. LivingLifeOffTheWall…., i do somewhat take issue with so many Black leaders facing off against Obama…so soon.
i usually think its b/c he leapfrogged all of their asses in relevance. especially Tavis. so he aint do your joint. get over it. i think Tavis is like, Obama thinks he’s too important for us.
i think Tavis needs a hug.
@Panama Jackson,
Tavis needs a
swift kick in the buttreality check….@N.I.A. LivingLifeOffTheWall….,
“MED, Cornel, Tavis, Bill, Julianne, etc. have all declared themselves de facto leaders in tbe black community, and b/c the mainstream assumes they are speaking for all of us and b/c white people think we all walk, talk, think the same and have the exact same experiences, and puts them on a pedestal, giving them an outlet to educate the masses on out plight, or in Bill’s case, put a black face to everything white people believe about us, all while ignoring present and historical road blocks in our community.”
*stomps and claps church-style* YES!
I love you, girl!
@Cheekie,
thanks Cheekie!! * e-hug *
@Cheekie,
Well, by definition, a leader is a single person who speaks for his entire community. At some level, there has to be an agreement that when you have dialog with the leader, you are in fact speaking to everyone. With that comes an indirect treatment of the group as uniform, or at least to the degree to which that the leader represents their issues.
@kamakula,
But, in order to speak for everyone, each individual in the collective group (i.e. everyone) has to agree that the alleged “leader”, is in fact, the leader. It can’t be self-appointed. I think that’s the argument that Panama was making, that these alleged leaders come off as speaking on behalf of the Black community, when in reality, a lot of Black folks don’t know what the eff they’re talking about and/or they don’t agree with their principles.
I mean, granted, it’s impossible to speak for every single person in a group, but there are too many Black folks out there who speak ill-will of the above-mentioned folks for me to truly consider them leaders of the Black community. I don’t know, like mentioned above, there’s something different about them than the leaders of yesteryear such as MLK, Malcolm, Angela Davis, and the like.
@Cheekie,
While it may be taboo to speak ill of the King Jr, I think Malcolm is an easy example of one person whom depending on what group you spoke to “many black folk out there” were speaking ill of him.
I’m not saying that I necessarily agree that they are leaders of the black community in the sense that MLK has come to represent leadership of the black community, instead I think such a designation is one that requires historical perspective in all but a few special cases.
Examples of special cases: Ghandi, MLK, Mandela. These men muddy the waters of what it means to be a “leader” of a community because now it appears people expect some sort of equivalent . . . performance/actions/work/motivations/trans-location/generational appeal. I mean, if Einstein became the standard of what it means to be a physicist, everyone else should just give up now.
@kamakula,
“While it may be taboo to speak ill of the King Jr, I think Malcolm is an easy example of one person whom depending on what group you spoke to “many black folk out there” were speaking ill of him.”
Yeah, granted Malcolm wasn’t as “safe” as MLK. Actually in a lot of cases it was either or. Still, both seemed to have the a nice bulk of followers. MLK just happened to have more followers of other races (which isn’t necessarily the point since we’re talking about the Black community period)
I gotcha, though.
@N.I.A. LivingLifeOffTheWall….,
Also, everyone gets used for everyone’s personal agenda. Be not deceived. Even Jesus had a personal agenda.
@kamakula,
“Even Jesus had a personal agenda”
Oooh, I’m intrigued.
Wasn’t his personal agenda still a reflection of OUR well-being? Was there something else he intended to do with his actions that didn’t have anything to do with us?
@Cheekie,
He was out teaching fishermen to fish when he could have been telling that final parable that would have saved my soul. Now, I’m screwed.
Oh man! I totally agree. Having an Ivy League degree doesn’t mean that much in terms of intelligence (except you paid alot for a paper). Sure, most people who get degrees from such institutions are indeed intelligent (IQ-wise), however, what many people don’t take into account is that there are so many categories of intelligence. I’ve read increasing studies, books, mag articles, and more that say high EQ (Emotional Intelligence) is just as important and even more important than IQ. This means that most successful people in all areas of life know how to read people, relate to them very well, and have a very effective influence on them.
@Blue Skyez, i.e. Barack obama.
@Blue Skyez,
There is a difference between intelligence and education and situations where one trumps the other.
got dayum yall…it’s friday……cool this sh!t o.u.t
education don’t equal knowledge no how
and who really cares what white folks think….
i for one don’t
@KingPineNut
On a related unrelated note, Mama’s Gun was made for Fridays. I’m up to track 11 and couldn’t be more relaxed. Is it time for lunch yet?
@An Island,
You want lobster or crabs???
I’m out this joint at 1:00
@KingPineNut
I’m a simple man . . . I’ll take the lobster.
@An Island,
done!
@An Island,
“I’m a simple man . . . I’ll take the lobster.”
Besides, no one wants crabs.
@Cheekie
Except maybe Lil Wayne on his “every girl” bullshyt.
@KingPineNut,
you got some crab cakes. King? so jealous that you are done at 1…
@N.I.A. LivingLifeOffTheWall….,
We can hook you up NIA….lol
Summer in Maine…..can’t beat it – come on up and join the parrrrtay!
I’d say somethin more relevant to the topic, but….hell…i ain’t lookin to be led nowhere.
A wise poet once said:
“And y’all buy the shit, caught up in the hype
Cause the n*gga wear a coofie, it don’t mean that he bright
Cause you don’t understand him, it don’t mean that he nice
It just means you don’t understand all the bullsh*t that he write”
Jay-Z – “Blueprint 2″
I couldn’t agree more and such is the case with many so-called “educated” Blacks. A huge problem I have with some is the elitest attitude they possess and the fact that they wear their degrees safety-pinned to their shirts like a badge of honor.
What a way to distance yourself from others!
When some of these individuals who are regarded by some as our leaders gain notoriety because of whatever accomplishments and accolades, they tend to become disconnected with the common man/woman. That’s not their peers any more and the immediate needs and concerns of the people don’t necessarily ressonate with them any more. You can tell in their speech – they tend to talk AT or TO people instead of with them.
Anyway, in regards to leaders, I think there’s a number of individuals with great leadership qualities, but one doesn’t stand out as a definitive leader in my opinion.
@Monk,
There are two ways in which you can teach someone (at least in my experience). The first involves that sense of talking “with” them that you mentioned. That is fine when you’re working one-on-one with someone, talking them through their problem. In that case, things work better when you present things from their point of view. When you are educating an entire class, it is likely not everyone has the same issues or gaps in understanding. Then, you have to talk “to” them. Sometimes as if you’re talking to kids. At that point, you have to present things as an outsider. As one who knows the absolute right way. When you address a large group, you want to challenge. When you work with a small group, you want to guide.
Both of these are necessary for proper teaching. Perhaps sometimes, we just see the public challenge that someone offers and not the private work they are doing to back it up.
Interesting. I agree that Dyson overwrites, but sorry brother his books on Martin, Malcolm, Marvin and Tupac are flat out brilliant.
@Tyler,
What did you think of his book Why I Love Black Women.
Just wondering, I haven’t read it…lol
@Tyler, gonna have to agree to disagree. in fact, i think that he said absolutely nothing of any relevance in the Tupac OR Marvin book.
i may be biased, but i did read them with the intent on gaining something. and i didn’t. at all.
@Panama Jackson,
Perhaps Panama, you already knew everything that was to be gained from the book.
These things can be a matter of perspective. If I pick up a textbook on Boundary value problems, I will invariably learn a lot. If I pick up any math textbook from high school or earlier, I will likely learn nothing I didn’t already know. That doesn’t make the HS texts bad books or that people should stop writing them, just means I’m beyond the info they provide.
@kamakula, though i see your point, i disagree. what i stand to gain from somebody’s who placing an opinion into the atmosphere is an alternative perspective. that’s what Dyson presents. except he does so terribly. i’ve ready your comments about appreciating his ability to flex with words. and one man’s trash is another man’s treasure, surely.
for me, if i can’t understand you, then your message is lost and is a fail. period. im one of those think like a wise man but speak in the voice of the people.
now that’s not to say use one syllable words, necessarily (that’s 5), but make sure that if you do use big words, people can actually understand your message.
@Panama Jackson,
I understand what you are saying, I just got the impression that you were writing him off entirely.
@Tyler,
Glad to know that some BLACK readers actually understand what he has to say. From the looks of the comments, you would have thought the man wrote in Mandarin or something.
I don’t want to knock these guys totally. MED, Cornel West, and Tavis Smiley do have valid points at times. My problem especially with MED is that this dude comes off as a pimp. Why do you have to talk so fast and use big words to make your point? I don’t see these guys in the community. The only time I see them is when they have a forum to show how intellectual they are. I could be wrong. I don’t see them involved at a grass roots level. Malcolm, MLK, Angela Davis, etc. were part of movements. I don’t see a movement behind these guys. All I see is them talking smart and going back to business as usual.
@Humble_One,
I don’t see them involved at a grass roots level. Malcolm, MLK, Angela Davis, etc. were part of movements. I don’t see a movement behind these guys. All I see is them talking smart and going back to business as usual.
exactly
@Humble_One,
“I don’t see them involved at a grass roots level. Malcolm, MLK, Angela Davis, etc. were part of movements. I don’t see a movement behind these guys. All I see is them talking smart and going back to business as usual.”
Well said!
@Humble_One,
I don’t see them involved at a grass roots level. Malcolm, MLK, Angela Davis, etc. were part of movements. .
Exactly!! I will not act these brothers don’t have valid points (Cosby included), I just need to see more action and less speaking.
@Humble_One, are you at every grass roots level activity that goes on. i can say that i don’t see them doing anything at the grass roots level, but then again i don’t see myself there either, so who am i to say anything. and i’m sure if we did see or hear of them at the grass roots level, we’d just say that they’re there for opportunistic reasons anyway, so they really can’t win.
just being the advocate of the devil once again…
@Humble_One,
Why do you have to talk so fast and use big words to make your point?
Ok, I’ll take issue with this. Why don’t he have to? Why are we assuming that he is putting up a front? Why can’t he just be the way he talks???
Sometimes, very smart brothas and sistas baffle me, on one end they’ll deplore the “coonery” of Soulja Boy, then on the other cry foul because someone uses “big” words to express themselves. Why can’t we just let people be who they are? And learn to do the same in the process?
Well, Panama I’m glad you made Bill Cosby the pictoral representative of the overly educated Black folk because he truly does get on my nerves with is rants about them youngins. Don’t get me wrong, I love me some Cosby of yore, he of the lip-synching to Ray Charles Night and Day and the love of hoagies and orange pop (so much that he gave birth to each).
However, he epitomizes the old and bitter holier-than-thou ninja standing atop a pedestal and pointing his mighty index finger at the youth of today. Now, granted, there IS something “off” about our youth. However, ranting and raving about silly ish like baggy jeans and backwards-turned hats ain’t gonna solve a thing. I’m sorry, but baggy clothes do not an ignant ninja make. Just because he dresses “urban” doesn’t mean he hasn’t picked up a book lately. And from the first moment I saw Cosby preaching about it, I rolled my eyes like it was the Circle of Life. And he just keeps going on and on about it without delving into the causes of state of our youth. I hate folks that only focus on the effects and not the causes. What an arse-backwards way to solve a problem.
That said, when he tap-dances in the infamous “Chalaaaange” scene is one of the best and funniest clips in TV history. And for that, I’d probably dap him before I chastize him for belittling young folks insteadd of raising them higher.
ETA: Also, I love Cornel West not only for his mind, but his ability to make the dopest hand-gestures to emphasize his points. His hand-gestures alone intrigue me.
@Cheekie,
“That said, when he tap-dances in the infamous “Chalaaaange” scene is one of the best and funniest clips in TV history.”
This is my all-time favorite Cosby Show moment.
@miss t-lee,
mines was the talk with theo about moving out with play money. “ill eat bead and water” lol
@BLUNTBLAZER,
Yeah, that moment (esp when he takes all the rest of the money when Theo says he’d have a girlfriend) along with the “chug-a-lug” game they played with Vanessa when she was caught drunk to teach her a lesson are some of my faves. Classic!
@Cheekie,
“Well, Panama I’m glad you made Bill Cosby the pictoral representative of the overly educated Black folk because he truly does get on my nerves with is rants about them youngins.”
What kills me about them criticizing the youth is that they don’t see their failures in the things they b***h about that the youth do.
So we have identified the problem. What is the solution and how do we use or varying strengths to implement it?
>What is the solution and how do we use or varying strengths to implement it?
The solution to bad black leaders is to marginalize them and appoint new ones.
But change of leadership does nothing, because the problems of the black community (many of which are subsets of the nation’s problems), can’t be solved by the perfect combination of Malcolm, Martin, Mandela, and Marcus.
We’re seeing this now with Obama. Leadership counts but accomplishing broad social goals requires much more than a charismatic leader.
@WestIndianArchie,
“We’re seeing this now with Obama. Leadership counts but accomplishing broad social goals requires much more than a charismatic leader.”
Yup. The followers have to be proactive as well. A leader shouldn’t teach a follower how to be dependent on them, they should teach them to lead as well.
@Double J, the best thing that probably can be done is to push more actual civic leaders who are black to the spotlight locally and nationally. Deval Patrick and Coery Booker are a good start, if Dave Bing can make anything out of the smoldering ashes that we call Detroit (no offense) then he will be another. However we would need positive black media to do this and that’s another problem…
The current cadre of “black leaders” get to be useless because they aren’t actually responsible for anything unlike a mayor, or city councilman whose achievements can be seen and who if they become a problem they can be replaced.
@Double J,
I love it!!!
Identifying problems is the easy part, now get to finding the solutions.
when Dyson tried to compare the Late great Marvin Gaye with R Kelly pedaphile bama azz, thats when the phcuk he lost me forever…….there is no comparison between Marvin and anyone….. musically artistically and morally that had to have been some kind of joke!!!
Education does not equal intelligence!!!
It is a means but not the only one.
EXCELLENT Panama!! This is a conversation that I have with people quite often. I grew up with a family of community leaders & saw the impact that they made in our community. Although they weren’t NATIONAL leaders I saw them working & relating & actually making a difference.
Something has gotten lost with this generation. I think with the opportunities to be educated & more exposure to things that we once werent afforded we’ve disconnected from our history and what it means to be Black in America. For some people they think that there isn’t much to fight for & that the struggle was a thing of the past. For others, (I am guilty at times) they’ve turned into these sort of self righteous freedom fighters whose hunger to get out of the ghetto (so to speak) has left us unable to relate.
As far as WHO IS CHOSEN AS OUR LEADERS we sort of let that happen. We fall into the media hype of a person. We need to recognize and involve ourselves with those people working on a grassroots level. Those are actually the people that make the difference. Don’t get me wrong, I respect those that are out there making their voices heard but what about the people that are rolling up their sleeves and actually doing the work. These are the people that we need to validate & recognize and speak of even if it is among ourselves. Also, instead of WAITING for our next leader we should each be working to become that person whether you are heard, seen or not.
Got a busy morning ahead of me, but I wanted to weigh in real quick.
First, I’ve always found this whole “Black leaders” thing an irksome crutch. The civil rights era was canonized by a lot of people in a way that people want to see the next Martin and Malcolm like looking for the next Jordan in the NBA. As such so many future Black people of some kind of status or talent get held to the unfair King/Malcolm/Jordan standard (not a standard based on level, but on mold), not allowed to blaze their own trails.
And it’s a crutch because why are Black American people sold so hard on this need of “Black leaders?” What, we can’t lead ourselves, get educated, make paper, build infrastructure, raise our babies, fight for what’s right on our own? We have to get carpet burns praying for some messianic Black leader to be the face of an entire race and to take us to the promised land? It’s bad enough white people look at us as some monolith that has a go-to Black face. Similar to how one bad rapper is an example of all rappers.
One more quick sidebar is that appeasing whites or basing what we do on whites is one of the worst forms of self-hate. Even when correctly and rightfully having a problem with coonery for example, there’s a thin line between genuinely not wanting to set an egregious example for one another and worrying what policy the white folks will take with us as a result, as if we answer to them.
Anyways, Black leaders. I don’t see where Dyson, Cosby, et al are Black leaders….even calling them that cheapens what they do. They’re simply intellectuals. They’ve been around the block, they have opinions and a forum and they use it. I’m sure they’re aware that many Black Americans, educated and otherwise, don’t care for them being on television or speaking at some college or whatever. But I look at it like this, the more Black voices, the better. Why not let it be known we’re out there, we see shet, and we put it in a certain perspective that one doesn’t have to like, mo matter if they’re white or Black? Whether it’s Cosby, Dyson, Sharpton, VSB, myself, or some rapper, we are adding on to society and the future will be better for it.
Come to think of it, that sounds like Black leading to me.
@Stuff Ghetto People Like,
Agree with the whole post.
And this –>They’re simply intellectuals. They’ve been around the block, they have opinions and a forum and they use it. <– is really too often lost on folks.
I’ve seen a few people saw that a masters degree or a phd doesn’t make you educated….YES IT DOES. I understand the point your trying to get at but the fact remains you have a education, you educated. Being able to spell or use words properly is not a very accurate measure of a person’s education. What Panama is getting as is these people like Michael Eric Dyson and Cornell West don’t have adaqute communication skills. A leader should be able to hold an intellgent conversation witht the most educated people AND be able to kick it to the dudes on the corner. Granted, this may seem like “dumbing down” but there is a fine line between dumbing down and what Panama is referring too. A leader as to be able to speak to his people, all of his people. If you can’t speak to us how can you speak for us? Forgive any spelling errors that I may have made. It in no way reflects my level of education, I just can’t spell for sh*t.
@Tha King,
See my reply about Dyson’s communication skills. He has them in abundance. Perhaps not in print – I’ve not read his books, but every time I’ve heard him speak or read an op-ed he’s written, I’ve been struck by his clarity of thought and his thoroughness. He does have a characteristic verbosity to him, but that just makes it even more entertaining when he’s tearing apart some idiots commentary and the words flowing from his mouth are like left and right hooks of fact and truth.
@kamakula,
I’ve only heard him speak a few times and from what I can recollect he did was slightly impressed with the way he spoke. I was only speaking about in print. I know that people tend to get a little wordy when writing. I wouldn’t call him and excellent public speaker but I do give him his props. C. West on the other hand? I have to restrain myself from throwing the remote at his image on the TV. Bill Cosby, well he’s just old.
@kamakula,
Perhaps not in print – I’ve not read his books, but every time I’ve heard him speak or read an op-ed he’s written, I’ve been struck by his clarity of thought and his thoroughness.
And I agree. I have not read any of his books, but he has a radio show that I have caught a few times, and he makes sense to me…
I’m going to go through and read more comments, but there is a point I want to make that I suspect has not yet been done.
1. Leadership in the black community is not an elected position. As such, nobody picks who the leaders are. The leaders choose themselves. How? They do so by organizing people around them. By being a voice that expresses the wants and needs of the community, that chastens and extols the community. They become leaders by being agents of change, bringing with them others who support their cause, so much so that those outside the community look to them as the one with whom to negotiate and dialog because they “represent” the community.
2. Why are we so clueless about who our leaders are? Why are there so many? Why is it that people outside the community are the ones naming our leaders? Well, if the federal government decided that they wanted to negotiate reparations with the black community, and they came and talked to ME, I just became the defacto leader of the black community – whether you like it or not. Some of those names that were listed are people who I notice giving opinions in the news all the time. They are brought in (partly) to express the “black” viewpoint. It makes perfect sense then that they will be looked on as leaders.
3. Dyson, for those who have never heard him speak, is a man of. . .boombastic vocabulary. So, Panama’s description of his books makes perfect sense to me. That’s how the man talks, I’m not surprised that’s how the man writes. He probably just speaks and has a speech to text program write the books for him. Anyway, despite his books, he is a very well informed guy and one that has the ability to get his points across on TV. Perhaps in print, he doesn’t come across well, but if you ever watch a segment where he’s opposite Pat Buchanan or someone else who invariably is going to make some stupid statement, Dyson will take them apart. Point by point. I’ve actually blogged about one of these exchanges before. So, I like him because he brings much needed sanity, actual knowledge, and reasoned analysis to political discourse. And not only is he one of the few voices that actually accomplish this feat, he is also black.
@kamakula,
” Leadership in the black community is not an elected position. As such, nobody picks who the leaders are. The leaders choose themselves. How? They do so by organizing people around them. ”
But still, in order for one to be a leader, they have to have folks following them. So, even though they deemed themselves a leader in theory, their potential followers have to co-sign in order for them to truly be a leader.
@Cheekie,
Well, I co-sign that Dyson is a leader. He is out there expressing things I think and feel (minus the self-righteous anger and readiness to completely and utterly decimate any self-worth some pundits may have) in the public sphere.
There are many things I am passionate about politically but even more so in the domain of engineering. So for me, people like him have leadership roles because they represent a part of me that for whatever reason, I’m unable or unwilling to do myself.
@kamakula,
“So for me, people like him have leadership roles because they represent a part of me that for whatever reason, I’m unable or unwilling to do myself.”
Yup. To me, this is the core of what makes a leader a leader.
I guess the main problem with Dyson et. al is not that they are deemed a leader of individual Black folks, but as the Black community as a whole, which they can’t truly be because the entire community is not a single entity other than the fact that our race/ethnicity is the same. Beyond that, though? We all have different values, principles and opinions so I guess Black folks that don’t see the above as their leader are a bit irked that they were deemed the leader of the Black community.
COME ON! W/ THE COME ON! SH*T KICKER UPPER! I like what you got to say homie. Here’s what I got to say
Say it on me
BLEEM
I think that black people have been chasing them 2520s for far too long. I mean yes it was inevitable since they had a head start on balling in this new land (you know so to speak new)different let’s just say different land. It’s a bad so to speak. I mean yes it’s wisdom to learn from someone else’s mistakes but to take on their shortcomings (pump the breaks my people). Or to take on their envious disdain for us and our success’. I’d give that the nay no. Now as far as Mr Dyson and his literature. hm. Let the 25 20′s get a chili dog session and a suzie q. Cuz I don’t give a … I am what I am & if they want to know they could ask.
You see late 90′s Americans took this I am attitude and were on some ‘all by my self’ either ‘don’t want to be byyyyy myyyselllf … or what’s happnin what’s up got that purp fired up… Remember when we the youmerican people became the people of the year? That was this movement’s crescendo. So that is what is driving people to not look outside of their own homes and families or circles for anything other than a job. Because that meaaaaan meann$ is king. I think that this is why you have a penchant to take a flame thrower full of biodiesel off product (napalm or something) to the ‘leaders’ because maybe just maybe folks have gotten neck and neck and now the real leader is in the white house. Plus you don’t like people who are unaware of their surroundings.
Gotta co-sign this message Panama.
I you write something to help folks, and most folks can’t understand what you’re writing, then what the hell is your purpose?
Pops always taught me that you have to be versatile. Gotta be able to make yourself felt by all kinds of people. Sadly, the way these intellectuals interpet that message means we get a couple of rap lyrics tossed on top of a steaming pile of confusing crap.
I actually really enjoyed “Mercy, Mercy Me”. It’s one of my favorite books. (Does that make me pretentious?) I actually like several of his books, but I can’t stand to hear him speak. He takes the “hip hop intellectual” persona way too literally, and he really needs to stop with the unnecessary rhyming and alliteration. Only Johnny Cochran could get away with that and not look a complete fool.
I agree they pushed the whole “get an education finish college you’ll be ok” plug down our throats but I have friends with degrees workin at ups b/c due to their skin and lack of employment. SOme people make it and love to throw it in our faces like why didnt you make it. Times have changed that BA they got in the 70′s aint the same as a BA in 09′ and they dont understand.
I have 11 clases left before I get my BA i grad HS in 99′ Went to HU for 2 got kicked out had to start all over no loans all out of my own pocket. Hada kid now i gotta work/daddy time so school is on the back burner But ima finish. But nothings gonna change there is no guarantee Ill get a better job I have a very good job im blessed. So i feel weird about school.
My Hero’s
Stokely Charmichael- man his books are amazing I really respect this man and all he has did throught his life sorry if i mispelled his name.
Ice Cube- He showed me that you can be true and not go to jail and can be gangsta but political and you dont have to sell out to make it. Even my moma likes Ice Cube and my son watches his kiddy movies its all good.
das all i can think of
seriously, why are “we” constantly looking for leadership? what happened to independent thought and responsible action? smh
@namelessMBAJD,
Ya know, I understand in theory why we would gravitate toward leaders, we being an oppressed people and all. But I wholeheartedly agree that we need to be more leaders, than followers. We can latch onto these “self-appointed leaders” all we want, but ultimately, we can’t use them as a crutch. We have to make decisions for ourselves. Seeking guidance from these leaders in order to lead your own path is okay. Being totally dependant on these leaders? Not so much.
There are no white leaders that you can pick out and assume they lead the entire white community so why assume there are black leaders that do the same. Blacks have always had a multitude of people getting things done and a few prominent faces singled out by the media, so the problem is not that they’ve “picked” Michael Dyson as a leader, the problem is you believe it to be true. I’m not waiting to be led by anyone and I could care less what white people believe anyway.
The biggest obstacle before the Civil Rights Movement was the lack of the ability for black men to receive higher education. Most couldn’t even walk across the campuses of prominent white universities without getting arrested, much less enroll. Now we’re at the point where there’s a 50/50 chance as to whether black people will even graduate from high school and you’re complaining because Michael Dyson’s vocabulary is too large??
How about raising the level of your understanding instead of dumbing down the message! If anything, he talks to fast and is a poor communicator, there’s a big difference! We don’t walk into museums and ask them to change exhibits because they’re too complicated, we don’t hand back our text books to our professors and say try again. There are black intellectuals out there who can connect with what Cornel West, Michael Dyson and many others have to say. They have the ability to follow them closely and when appropriate correct them.
It’s a matter of attitude, some people go to school with an, “I just want to pass with a C” attitude and are satisfied. Others go to school to dominate and won’t settle for anything less but the best grades. Unfortunately both get the same degree, but don’t think for a second everyone with the same degree has the same level of understanding!
Professors don’t have enough time to cover all the material in a subject and that’s why they’re always skipping over chapters. Everyone gets the abbreviated version of whatever subject you’re studying, but if you want to learn something well, only your initiative to step up do more reading outside the curriculum will help.
This conversation sounds like how silly people who never went to college sound when they’re standing around talking about how much better off they are compared to people who went to school. First it was talking proper = being too white and now being too educated = being too white because those are the one’s white people will deal with. Please!
@Mike, Now we’re at the point where there’s a 50/50 chance as to whether black people will even graduate from high school and you’re complaining because Michael Dyson’s vocabulary is too large??
How about raising the level of your understanding instead of dumbing down the message!
EXACTLY!!
@A Plus,
thing is, i don’t see anyone wanting to dumb down the message. Obama didn’t dumb down the message, yet the country, from the most intellectual to “rednecks for Obama” was able to understand him. he spoke to the people, and not at them. he communicated effectively.
@N.I.A. LivingLifeOffTheWall…., yeah he did, cuz he’s a different person with a different style and he was trying to get elected pres of the us. cornel west is not.
apples and oranges
@N.I.A. LivingLifeOffTheWall….,
yeah this a writen document you can research this all you want and everything.
@Mike,
How about raising the level of your understanding instead of dumbing down the message! If anything, he talks to fast and is a poor communicator, there’s a big difference! We don’t walk into museums and ask them to change exhibits because they’re too complicated, we don’t hand back our text books to our professors and say try again. There are black intellectuals out there who can connect with what Cornel West, Michael Dyson and many others have to say. They have the ability to follow them closely and when appropriate correct them
My sentiments exactly.
And if that makes me pretentious, then I’ll be that. I’ve been called worse.
Can’t reply from a real comp (only from my phone). All I wanted to say is I’d love to hear Obama say “Blackity, black, black. Let’s take care of some black isht y’all!” Because that would be hilarious!
A lot of black leadership died (or was comprimised) in the 70′s because that’s when all of the movements died. There aren’t really anymore popular movements like there was back then which makes most of these guys as irrelevant as the XFL. Ironically they are to black leadership what MC Hammer was to Hip Hop; at a point you were popular but later generations will wonder who in the hell actually listened to you.
**patiently waits for ‘Black in America 2′ to tell me who I really am**
(In the first one I learned I might be a salty negro…)
@Omar, LOL. In the first one I learned that I will never get a black husband, if i try to date white, half my family will disown me, and if i try to stay single and date I’m gonna catch AIDS. There’s no winning with CNN.
@Liz,
yep, i leaned the exact same thing…what else is there?
@Liz,
Yep…just fling yourself off a bridge.
RIGHT NOW.’
*giggling*
@Omar,
” XFL”
Hahah!!! I totally forgot about that ish until right now!
@Panama, whats’ up brother. Didn’t know you went to Morehouse until I noticed the mention in an earlier post. This topic has forced me to finally comment.
Each of these individuals mentioned are not real leaders.
Cornel West
Tavis Smiley
Jesse Jackson
Al Sharpton
Michael E. Dyson
Each are capitalist driven fake revolutionaries. There job is to cultivate the minds and attention of our people who are satisfied with prima facie. Those who have not seriously studied enough about themselves or the situation our people are satisfied with these phonies. Consequently, none will ever drive home the need for real solutions. You will often hear excellent diagnoses of problems expressed with soul and eloquence. But no discussion on solving the problems.
I have found that the most educated individuals are often committed to self study. These people are not bound by what institution/organization deems as required/necessary knowledge. The degrees ultimately don’t mean shit. Generally, the powers that be welcome the so-called educated negro. Why, because they realize that then the negro has been thoroughly brainwashed with “Western Thought”.
How can a true leader be born but from the backing of the common people. The power to galvanize people comes from an expression of true action towards justice, or maybe i should say action that is backed by universal truth. Examine the movements of our past, and this truth becomes evident. How can a true leader be financed by the very “Corporations/Organizations” that are actively involved against us?
I need no one to lead me. I am a black leader in my home, neighborhood, city, and beyond. A thorough knowledge of self has granted me this. We must all realize that we are the catalyst for the change that we all need. We are the leaders that we have been waiting for. Peace
@Panama or anyone else
If you would like a book to read that upon completion leaves you full of thoughts for contemplation try “The Destruction of Black Civilization” by Chancellor Williams. Chancellor Williams was a true educated revolutionary.
Also if you want to see how Cornel West stacks up with a true Black Scholar/Revolutionary check the youtube series “John Henrick Clarke/Cornell West Debate on Afrikan Nationalism”.
On the topic of Malcolm, Martin and Angela.
I think if you do some research on each of their lives you will see that during the apex of the their popularity, all three of them were condemned by large sections of the black community. Hell, I would argue that Angela was NEVER a true “leader” in that she lacked power within her own small black subset, namely the Black Panthers. She has written that she was constantly figthing for respect within that group because of rampant chauvinism. She only gained serious notoriety after joining academia. Ironic.
As for Martin and Malcolm, both men had their leadership questioned by those outside of their movements and by those within. Martin was regularly attacked by younger civil rights workers for his unwillingness to take certain risks and his inability to manage money. Many times he was following the lead of others on key civil rights issues. However, because of his name recognition, he got a lot more of the press and coverage than they did. Kind of like Al and Jesse.
It’s well known that NOI was not that active within the larger black community, particularly not outside of the North. Malcolm often chafed at how little work the group actually did, and how unwilling Elijah Muhammed was to take a stand on certain civil rights issues.
I guess what I’m saying is that perspective if everything. From one perspective these three might be seen as paragons of leaderships. From another, they are just as flawed as the people we rail against today.
@Big Man,
I think the big difference is that they were criticized for how they did what they did which is different from being criticized for not doing much at all or not being who you portray yourself to be.
Ask yourself what exactly is let’s say Michael Eric Dyson’s mission??
I don’t know either, that answer could be easily found for the people you mentioned.
@Big Man,
I agree. We often forget that our “leaders” were often decried during their own time. Regular folk said they were “too big for they britches”. Honestly, I get tired of the idea that in order to be accepted by my folk I have to change the way I communicate. Too often we want black leadership to come in some cute wrapper (ooh homonym) rather than being willing to be challenged. We should be willing to be humble enough to be a follower when the time is right and confident enough to be a leader when the time is right. Usually the minute we hear something we don’t like, especially if it highlights our flaws or insecurities, we’re ready to skewer the speaker and throw the race traitor card out.
I think this is exactly what happened with many of the more unsung activists during the Civil Rights Era and the Black Power Movement such as James Baldwin and Harry Belafonte. Baldwin was ridiculed and abandoned for his language, his mannerisms, his homosexuality, despite his working with both Martin AND Malcolm.
And to froth a little more at the mouth, under most circumstances Barack Obama would be one of those unnecessarily intelligent black people, talking over people’s heads and whatnot.
I actually went to the Morehouse graduation where Bill Cosby went into his anti poor people tirade. I get what he meant to say in terms of our communities upgrading themselves, but if I were a working class black person, I would think the whole thing was insulting, patronizing, and unfair. How you gonna call people out for naming their kids Mohammed? Last I heard, that was one of the most common names on Earth. It was the worst kind of class warfare, the one in which you point fingers instead of extend a helping hand.
On a lighter note, folks are getting buck about dating and money over at brandonsaintrandy.wordpress.com
#blogwh*ring
Maybe the real problem is we shouldn’t look for leaders. Maybe the answer is to strive to be a leader yourself.
Well all know Al Jackson Sharpton Jessie (they’re one person to me) ain’t what’s happening. But instead of complain about them let’s be better than them.
And being a leader isn’t necessarily reaching the pinnacle of what Barrack Obama has done. Leadership is simply being a good example to the people around you.
Little kids emulate the people they are around. I saw a little boy yesterday sagging and carrying a fake gun in his waist. Why? Because the guy that was with him, which I’m assuming is his daddy (BTW big assumption because the mom looked like she had a three baby daddy minimum on her) looked the same way.
So that’s how you become a leader. Do what you are suppose to do and let people see that light. And let Dyson be who he is. Let him write for the high brow whites and blacks. But just don’t let him speak for you. You speak for you community and drown out these sorry ninjas like Jessie Sharpton Jackson Al.
I think part of what is getting my goat is seeing Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and others get clowned for what seems to be trivial reasons. Yes, they may not go after all the causes that I personally want but to be honest, there are very few things that they have done (gosh, I can anticipate some responses to this now. . .) that if I had infinite time, I would still have said “no”.
They serve some part of our community. They bring healing to some part of our community. They are advocates of parts of our community. And they’ve done it consistently enough and well enough that it makes them leaders (for better or for worse).
I don’t think taking personal initiative needs to be a matter of drowning them out. Instead, we should look at is as a matter of filling the gaps in coverage. They are human beings who choose projects where they feel they can make the biggest difference and they feel advances their agenda (just like MLKs personal agenda was equality for us all). It really is too much to expect them to be able to do everything. Even MLK did not do everything, he was one of the prominent faces of work done by a vast amount of our leaders. A focusing point of a lot of individual and group efforts.
We are not going to have another MLK until a lot more of us get out there and do our individual parts too.
@kamakula,
In the words of Eddie of “The Barbershop”…
F*ck Jessie Jackson.
Them dudes get paid and they are media whores. Period. I’ll give them their just dues on at least getting out there. But it’s all about their motives and I don’t think their motives are good.
@kamakula,
i don’t think they are getting clowned for the trivial (at least not by me). there are thing that they have done and issues they have ignored in our community. i mentioned somewhere above about Rev. Al and the Dunbar Village situation. granted, that situation was ignored by pretty much everybody, so i guess i can’t be too upset at them for that.
of course, those of us who are involved in our communities should take an even greater role, and not worry about what Rev. Al, Rev. Jesse, and the rest of the crew are doing (or not doing).
completely agree about MLK. honestly, he was just the face of the movement. much of what happened behind the scenes was not his doing…he just supported the initiatives.
I’d take a person whose knowledgeable over a person who’s educated any day becauseI can’t be too sure of what that person got their education in. However, someone that’s knowledgeable will be a vessel of information on all things. I think that’s what our community looks for in a leader. And as for whites picking our “leaders”, I don’t necessarily think of them as that- more like the spokespeople for the black community as appointed by whites. And black people just don’t care enough to try and correct them in public, but trust, they ain’t leading *insert expletive here*.
@The Lioness,
Part of my initial ranting earlier was over the implied difference between a person with knowledge and an educated person. I think in the context of appraising someone I don’t have any person interaction or first hand experience for a leadership role, my instinct is to look for bona fides when it comes to evaluating why I should listen to person A over person B.
Unless said “knowledgeable” person comes with a resume of experience that demonstrates this knowledge, I have no objective means beyond education. Then, in the context of education, certain accomplishments necessarily mean the person possesses more than book smarts. The process of getting a PhD or MD is not one that you can just make it through. There are certain competencies that have to be demonstrated and they require considerable dedication and sacrifice on the part of that individual.
So, when someone brandishes those credentials, there is more than paper there. Something similar (in my field) is being a licensed professional engineer. So, I must object to what appears to be a cavalier dismissal of education. Furthermore, your comment seems to imply that there is something untrustworthy about education which understandably rubs me the wrong way. (Not only your comment, you just happen to be the one that got this reply).
@kamakula, “my instinct is to look for bona fides when it comes to evaluating why I should listen to person A over person B”
While I can understand your instinct, it’s just not the one I choose to apply in my decision making process. Perhaps if I was looking for a CEO of a company, then yes. But when we are looking for a person to motivate and inspire the black community, education (in terms of advanced degrees) is not my main criteria. Our “educated” people have a tendency to alienate those who haven’t achieved the same level of academic success. They often come off as fake and insincere and our people have an uncanny ability to read people very well. If you go into most black communities today, you will see that often the people that they most admire and look up to the most are right there and the knowledge that they possess isn’t the kind earned by popping no-doze and cramming as many definitions as they can into their heads just so they can forget the next day after their exams are finished.
And when someone brandishes those “credentials” to some extent it is just paper- a declaration that they know or have memorized theories and concepts that they may not be able to apply- a declaration of the capacity to learn, but not necessarily the ability to lead.
If it came off as a “cavalier dismissal of education” then I apologize. I have my MBA so I am fully aware of the sacrifices that were made. However, to some extent, yes I do feel education is untrustworthy. Not in the form of the concept itself, but the sense of entitlement that it gives others.
@ Panama
I understand your point, but I don’t think white people think the Michael Eric Dysons and Cornel Wests are our leaders. They’re just the ‘go-to’ black academic for the LAZY media when they want the black perspective(s) on an issue. However, I do agree Dyson is obnoxious and pretentious for no reason, but West does connect to people and is all around awesome. But, that’s just me.
As for who our leaders are? Do we need leaders, as a community? This thinking forces ourselves and others to think of Black people as some homogenous monolithic group when that is far from the case (Personally, I think this is the kind of thinkin that gets white people thinkin we are all uber-organized and conspiring to take over, which is just ridiculous). As a people, we have multiple causes, and issues and there are leaders of color in all those fields, whether or not they are recognized as such is another issue altogether.
As for elected officials, there is a new generation of Black politicians a la Barack Obama like Cory Booker the mayor of Newark, NJ, Adrian Fenty, the mayor of Wash D.C., and Deval Patrick – the gov of Masschusetts that are being ushered in on the sly. And, Al Sharpton, Jesse James and the Old Guard need to step aside and retire in Florida or something. If you see the documentary, Street Fight, it illustrates the differences between the Old Guard and the new generation really well.
Cheers.
Can People wiyh Master’s and PHD’s get some credit? It takes a lot of hard work to obtain those degrees. Don’t condescend their work ethic.
I think you are right Panama. There is diffinitely a disconnect between the alledged leaders of the black community and the black community. although I am old enough and educated enough to know who these people are alot of others do not know them. Or even understand what they are preaching about. Gone are the leader’s that actually lived or even visit/participate in our community. They just attach themselves to whatever cause is most popular at the moment i.e. Sean Bell or Jena 6
@Panama
I’m feeling you on the perception of black leaders both in and outside the black community. Just this morning I came across an article which read that former Prez Bill Clinton was inducted into Phi Beta Kappa. Reading that disturbed me because as a lot of you recall from the 90′s there were people who actually had the gall to say Clinton was the first black president. I always questioned that sentiment because I wondered what was it he did that granted him such a large pass. He liked jazz music? So what, my Japanese friends in Japan love jazz music. He liked fried chicken? Popeyes Chicken is a booming industry in South Korea. He had sex with a chubby white woman? Well….
And there was the ever-insulting Larry Hargrove song, “Leave Bill Clinton Alone” which upon hearing caused me to cry. Taking all of this into consideration I had to ask myself, “Are there even any black leaders anymore?” My answer was “On a national level, no.” I’m not sure if any other readers feel this way or not, but I do. And I do find it rather absurdly interesting that there are (whites) who have “designated our leaders for us”. Some of the gentlemen you spoke of I’ve read their books and listened to their radio programs, but when I do I’m reminded of that old term “Race Man” (which in my humble opinion can be also equate to Token) Only now the game isn’t uplifting the people, but rather playing on white guilt.
I do see your point. I think that there is a disconnect between SOME black leaders and the general black community, but I think that our most recent election of Obama shows a man who is super educated but also managed to revive grassroots politics and connect not only with the black community, but a large portion of American communities at large.
I have to say though, that most of these ‘over educated black folks turned our white people appointed leaders’ fall into the category of the token black person. And there is something about the very nature of being the token black person that sets one a part from the general black community. Whatever qualities made you a token – made you acceptable and stellar in white america’s eyes – are probably the very things that separate you from the people you supposedly come from/represent/lead. So it comes as no surprise that it is often difficult for these chosen ones to lead in a manner that the people they represent can relate to.
As for Mr. Dyson – you can’t take him as a case study and generalize for all of our well-educated supposed leaders. Each one is different, and in terms of your argument I’ve just come to the conclusion that despite his many degrees, professorship, prolific-ness, and public persona, the man just doesn’t know how to write. It is fitting that I came across the account of your experiences with his writing, because just today I was reading his newest work “April 4, 1968.” Now while he does make some interesting points and a plausible thesis I closed the book in pure annoyance halfway thru chapter two because his writing spoke so authoritatively and generally about Dr. King with NO evidence, footnotes/endnotes to back it up. You can’t theorize about an historical event (in this case the death of Dr. King) with out the hard evidence to back it up. That’s high school history 101.
Which brings me to my last point, which is, over educated does not mean well educated. And I think that’s the misconception that keeps people like me and you attempting to read his books. Moreover, don’t think the well educated white folks don’t also see that when they read his books… Which just means that if white folks are proclaiming these over educated tokens to be our leaders, then white folks also know that they are just talking shit that no one understands which will lead black folks no where.