*****editors note. the champ so enjoyed wearing the “black man’s hat” yesterday, that he refused to take it off. despite our pleas, he even wore it in the shower, which has now made the hat damp and ripe with mildew. the champ is obviously a strange duck. if you happen to see him today, please assist us in snatching this hat off of his head*****
its not the datable man shortage
or racism
or latent sexism
or big gay al reynolds
or daddy issues
or bust it babies
or even jim jones
no, the biggest problem facing young blacks in regards to dating today has everything to do with our ears, or, more specificially, what we chose to do with them.
we are *paging my best charles barkley impression* terrible, terrible, terrible listeners.
terrible
forget std’s, the paramount relationship health issue in the young black community is the eerily selective abundance of earwax we all seem to possess. it comes and goes, like hiccups and appalachian hookers.
how else can you explain the selective listening we do, evidenced by the fact that not only do we not listen to each other, when we actually do decide to listen, we make the genius decision to listen to the drooling n*gga in the corner wearing the giant dunce cap!!
for instance:
black guy says “i love black women, but haven’t dated one in a while because black women don’t seem to be attracted to the type of brotha i am. apparently i’m lacking in swagger or some shit” and it’s immediately discounted as bitch-n*gga bs that shouldn’t be paid any attention to.
idiot black guy says “black women are too difficult, which is why i can’t f*ck with em anymore. seriously, who wants to spend all that damn time taming a broad?” gimme a mami over a sista any day, even sundays.” and this becomes the gospel from the book of “how black men really feel”
black girl says “i mean sh*t, if our own men don’t love us, who the hell will? how is that supposed to make me feel?” and she’s dismissed while told to woman up and stop living in the 17th century
black girl lost says “these lame ass n*ggas aint doing nothing for me. i need a baller with a ’09 benz and a d*ck bigger than a toddlers arm. if you don’t fit the criteria, kill yourself” and every other black woman in the country is guilty by association.
i dont know. maybe its easier for us to collectively pay attention to bullsh*t because the important truths are too difficult to bear. maybe we’ve been so conditioned by the music we listen that we’ve become experts of language compartmentalization. maybe we just need to chew more gum. who knows.
i do know though that honestly, if listening were looks, we’d be camilla parker bowles (who should just probably have her name legally changed to “ugly-ass cpb“)…
…and not even the biggest black man’s hat can hide that.
L-boogie said it best:
“and even after all the knowledge and the theory/ i add a muthaf*cker so the ignant n*ggas hear me”
who knew she was referring to all of us.
—the champ
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{ 334 comments… read them below or add one }
bravo, bravo!! i hate to admit it, but we as a race (meaning the human race) don’t listen and are to damn closed minded for our own good!! just last night i had to ask someone if she was only hearing what i said or actually listening to the words that came from my mouth!! and then had to break it down for her to understand what i was talking about!!
many times, we, as a people (not just black, white, etc.), have a true problem when it comes to listening to what people are telling us!! that is where the misunderstandings come from within the relationships that we have with others (bf/gf, employer/employee, racially/religiously different persons, etc.)!! we tune out people when they aren’t speaking our language, our dialect, or whatever we don’t want to hear, remaining ignorant to our surroundings and situations!! when people aren’t open to the ideas and opinions of others, it creates more tensions and rifts between the people involved!! i, myself, have been found guilty of this just as most people on this earth are!! but what makes me different from the others is that i listen, although it may not change my view, and when i listen, i understand and comprehend what the other person is saying, instead of just hearing the different sounds that come out of the other person’s mouth!! and with knowing that, i had to make changes to my speech, seeing that if i tune out when someone is talking in a manner that will make me tune out, someone else will tune out if i speak in a manner that they don’t too much care for!! its a vicious cycle and the cause of many misunderstandings between the classes, sexes, races, cultures, religious beliefs, etc.!!!!
*chest bumps don* lol
You and Mr. Champ are so right on all of those points. People do not take the time to listen constructively. They listen like its a buffet table..take bits n pieces n leave the rest. Then they dont think before they speak. Just tend to say the first thing that pops out.
“An open mind leaves a chance for someone to drop a worthwhile thought in it”
People will learn so much more about things if they would just shut up n listen..lol
“*chest bumps don* lol”
no chest bump for me? i feel slighted
“and even after all the knowledge and the theory/ i add a muthaf*cker so the ignant n*ggas hear me”
@ CHAMP…someone just got himself another treat w/ that there…(true hip hop-er in the bldg!) so what will it be…Mango juice under Polaris…or a banana-granate smoothie?
“@ CHAMP…someone just got himself another treat w/ that there…(true hip hop-er in the bldg!) so what will it be…Mango juice under Polaris…or a banana-granate smoothie?”
how about just a cookies and cream shake today? gotta keep it simple, i have a game later on tonight
@ champ…man? how you gonna pick something that’s actually yummy? lol… (puts hand on your forehead) are you feeling ok? what kind of game? I know I am nosy as hell…oh well…indulge me…
“what kind of game?”
basketball. i’m hoping it doesnt rain
*butt slaps da Champ* lol
what is a bust it babies? any relation to muppet babies?
me and my girl have been trying to figure that one out since the song came out!!! but i guess you have to “listen” to the song to find out and formulate your own conclusion as to what it is!!
dag, there’s a SONG? i am so out of touch.
yeah….(deep sigh)….there is a song out there…..actually i believe there are two….original and pt.2, the remix ft ne-yo (another deep sigh)….
**not excited about the “bust it baby” songs so there will be no exclamations used.**
HATER!! now you wanna drop the exclamation points…lol. i’m not a fan of the ne-yo version but i loves me the original.
You’re joking right?!
It’s not just a song. It’s a movement. I mean, it’s “bust it babies”. Not just any ole babies. But “bust it”. And it’s not just any old rapper like Soulja Boy or Ice-T.
It’s mothertrucking Plies – like the 3rd greatest rapper of all time behind Yung Berg and South Park Mexican!
Is there a song…sheesh…
How dare you speak ill of Ice-T.
He was on Celebrity Family Feud last night. I only watched it because he was on there. He lost – but he was still very funny.
‘How dare you speak ill of Ice-T”
oh yes…how can one forget cheryl’s infamous ice-t crush?
21 years later … I still crush. And crush hard.
you laughing but young berg got game. i like last yrs. album. it’s on some big boy shit. soulja boy on some lil boy shit. i mean we all love real “booty meat” but dam, did we really need the song?
booty meat?
I hate that song with a passion.
Random dropping on SPM…PJ, you are officially my dude for life now LOL!
Ok, he is a fool…lol!
Word.Life.
SouthPark Mexican is cool as hell…HTOWN STAND UP!!!!
I’ve been subjected to that song. I hate it. I figured the term “bust it baby” was self-explanatory which is why I hate it.
I agree with every word you just wrote.
lol…honestly, i have no idea. i’ve seen people talk about it, and i heard the song for the first time last weekend.
your comment makes me ashamed to say I have it as a ringtone on my phone.
effit I’m not ashamed. its for a part in the song that makes my girl and I laugh.
yes I have ringtones (and calltones) and age 34.
(head cocked, looking at you from the corner of my eye!) Cheryl…you can have ringtones and call tones at age 34..but I do believe that the lunacy that can “appreciate” the bust-it-baby-ness has an expiration date…I think it’s only for those born AFTER cassette tape died…you know…the kids that are YOUNGER than Yo MTV Raps! come on now!
I was told after 30 you can’t have hip-hop ringtones or any calltones. But I don’t really care.
HOWEVER … the bustit baby song is just the specific ringtone for my bestest friend Angela.
my standard ringtone is Hi Hater by Maino who I am gonna meet and marry this week. Yay me!
well if it’s a joke…I will give you the play cousin discount…lol…my bff’s ringtone is “looking boy” but that is nowhere near the babies that bust it…
lol my sons ringtone (on my phone) is lookin boy.
You know, as much as I’d like to admonish the use of this song as a ringtone, it’s actually a perfect ringtone song.
It’s got a good beat, it samples Janet Jackson, and Ne-Yo’s hook is actually good. In fact, if we were able to mute Plies on the song and ship it to, say, JT Money and change the name to, say, “Suck It Baby”, it might be the 2nd best song ever in hip-hop history, behind only Puffy’s “I Need A Girl”. Part 2 of course.
yeah but see you openly like RayJ. Imma need someone else to come to my defense on this matter.
Thanks tho.
i kid!!!
Though it is true that I like Ray J’s music (some of it) this proves another point. Most of y’all ain’t listening strictly because its Ray J. Biased listening.
It hurts.
If it makes you feel any better (although the confession doesn’t make ME feel any better)
I like the song Sexy Can I and that other hit he had.
I’m also a fan of Ray J…he’s just the cutest little man out there.
Did you all know about the “Bust It Baby” reality show:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eg_l5sSmgCY&feature=related
WARNING- this clip sets Black women back 400 years. Everyone on this video down from Plies to the best boy and key grip should be taken to a vacant lot and shot.
this shit can’t be serious! dammit flav! i bet you wish Plies only dated women outside his race on this one huh Toldya? this plies fault, the people that participate, the people that consume and the money grubbing fux that profit from it. can’t front, ima be watching the shit mouf agape like watching the towers fall. can’t stand it, can’t believe it, it hurts but can’t turn away.
you now this reality b.s. is not exclusive to black folks and didn’t start with just the exploitation and self exploitation of black folks. if it didn’t get the ratings i wouldn’t stay on.
oh yeah and them mf’s in craft services responsible too.
well i have to hate the stereotypes perpetuated in this t.v. show but they seem to be only looking for gutter chics..when in reality Plies isn’t even rapping about a gutter chic. It looks like they held auditions at the local flea markets…but what’s sad about it is that there are chics like that walking around Florida everywhere you go.
Oh well I will be tuned in with my popcorn, watching these chics disrespect themselves for a moment of fame.
Yeah, I saw the preview for this…yet another reason why I hate the song. The whole song/movement is a hot azz mess.
Yes, I saw the preview as well.
Sad thing was… these women weren’t teenagers where you can say they are just young and dumb. They were grown azz women in their late 20′s and 30′s.
…wow…just…wow.
LOL. I have a long list of Black men who I would be more than glad to see with only White women. But I don’t hate White women enough to do that to them! Nobody should be fucking Plies. No one.
that video made me cry…
damn…I got nothing…I’m going to go home and hug my son…
You know I refuse to watch reality television on this principle alone, if it is going to take away brain cells or not add to my knowledge base or implant unnecessary crap I refuse to watch it, which is why I never got into Flava of Love and New York and several others. I don’t care that I am out of the loop, watching it only encourages it, like when you laugh at your 2 year old that yelled out a curse word for the first time. It’s not so cute when he does it in front of your pastor, or some folks you tryin’ not to be embarrassed in front of. The whole reality tv movement set back poor folk (black, white, yellow, and brown) hundreds of years. It’s a damn shame.
Ok so seriously I love the song…the original version that is. Plies remade it with Ne-yo to soften it up a bit but the original version is gutter and straight to the point…and I have to be honest it’s kind of how we do it down here in Flawda!
“…taste like sugar, smell like water.”
Lol…how you not love a song with that verse in it…lol. Ok so i’m making it my profile song again! Liz if you haven’t heard it, click on my name…he breaks it down in the original version.
“It looks like they held auditions at the local flea markets”
you know whats funny? in the burgh, you’ll typically find the bangingest chicks at shit like flea markets and goodwills. the more i learn, the more i realize there’s nowhere else like pittsburgh. this should be an entry topic all by itself
“you’ll typically find the bangingest chicks at shit like flea markets and goodwills.”
not just in the burg, son…the mall is for amateurs…you will find sisters with personal style that own their look from “beauty to thrift shops” because the trends don’t make theis fashion choices for them…this autonomy only adds to theis BANGINGEST-ness… (you’ve got mail about the BANGINEST beaters…please believe)
“the more i learn, the more i realize there’s nowhere else like pittsburgh.”
maybe you should start your own move to Pittsburgh campaign. then post it on youtube. lol.
busss-it behhh-beh.
heh, heh, heh….
i love the slow whisper…i’m starting to think that i’m just genuinely amused by the damn song.
if plies ain’t rapping about a gutta chick, what is he rapping about?? explain what a “bust it baby” is!!
listen to the song…it’s not what he’s rapping about.
the title is derogatory but the song is not, it’s actually what most men wish they have or do have. under his description in the original version even some wives could be classified as such.
But that show wasn’t an accident. Clearly, he has a taste for gutter women….or at least enjoys helping them exploit themselves. Fuck him and his shitty song. He won’t be around next summer.
LOL i heard it today……no comment!
yeh, you make a very strong point here Champ. I am occasionally guilty of not only ‘language compartmentalization’, but generalizing the negativity of one fool to reflect an entire group or in this case gender. I’ve learned to snap out of it quicker as I get older, but I see that the real problem with all of this bad listening is that it poisons us, taints us and literally prevents us from meeting folks out there that actually hold the same principles as we do. I don’t mean to sound all Eckhart Tolle on your a$$ but I think we attract negativity the same way we do positive energy. If you walk around this earth feeling like no one will ever love you/want you/date you etc…the chances are higher that you will give off this vibe subconciously and attract only the dudes with the dunce caps in the corner.
@ miss p……….i can’t agree with you more!!!!!!
*standing ovation*
just as intelligence attracts intelligence, ignorance attracts ignorance!! people tend to surround themselves with those who share their opinions and outlooks in life and if it is a negative outlook, that is who they identify and surround themselves with!! if it is a positive outlook, thats who they surround themselves with and identify with!! the saying is true….birds of a feather tend to flock together!! you don’t see peacocks kicking it with crows!!
I agree to an extent DG…and I usually nod emphatically at your dissertations…the birds of a feather theory is accurate for like 80% of our total interaction…how else can you account for the knuckle heads (and knuckle-head-ettes) that we (VSB fam) admit to Carl Thomas-ing? granted, the representatives mirrored our POVs but when the masks cracked all HECK-CK+LL broke loose! if you add to that, the risk involved with trying something new in your dating checklist (to broaden your net, so to speak) it indeed becomes a “box of chocolates”… so you do like attracts like, except for when it doesn’t…
“so like attracts like, except for when it doesn’t…”
G, I know exactly what you’re talking about when you refer to that 20% that caught you off guard. A part of me feels like surely we can’t be held responsible for those ‘surprises’, but on some level we can. i.e.) have you ever met someone who was too good to be true? appeared to have no pathological behavior whatsoever and the whole time you’re dating them you’re waiting for the other shoe to drop? and when it does you realize you turned a blind eye to all of their ‘issues’? i think even in the 20% who ‘when the masked cracked all heck broke loose’ we realize that we failed to listen/pay attention to all the signs that indicated that they were deep down inside a knucklehead.
Hm…so who do ignorantly educated individuals tend to attract?
I feel so all alone.
“I don’t mean to sound all Eckhart Tolle on your a$$ but I think we attract negativity the same way we do positive energy.”
i dont think i want eckhart tolle anywhere near my ass, thank you.
@ Miss P…aka PatteeCakes… (high five on the Eckhert Tolle reference)…if you don’t love you, how can someone else? I try to pay close attention to vibes, flags, and context clues to know whether or not I am wasting precious time on a knuckle dragger…but alas, I too have fallen victim to the selectivity in the afore mentioned post…(fist on chin, looking skyward…sigh)
question of the day…so how do we move towards amelioration?
Goodeness, thanks for my new nickname…i think i kinda like ‘PatteCakes’.
“we attract negativity the same way we do positive energy. If you walk around this earth feeling like no one will ever love you/want you/date you etc…the chances are higher that you will give off this vibe subconciously”
Yes!!! This is so true and I’m a big believer in the energy you give off is what you receive. It’s all about how you approach life and honestly if you feel good about yourself and have a positive approach, you will receive that. I used to be more negative but changed my vibe in the last few years and it’s really changed my whole outlook on life.
“we attract negativity the same way we do positive energy. If you walk around this earth feeling like no one will ever love you/want you/date you etc…the chances are higher that you will give off this vibe subconciously”
I agree wholeheartedly. It’s important to remain positive throughout life even when you aren’t feeling your best. Negative people aren’t fun to be around and start to get annoying pretty quickly.
Wow what the hell did I miss while on the plantation? Haha little joke. All hell broke lose in the last comments section and I missed the fight. Damn!
After reading some of the comments on this board and others and I have to say that it pains me to know that underneath all the intellectual debate, there is so much pain between Black women and Black men. But what rips at my heart strings is that Black women are the ones crying out for respect and loyalty while it appears to me that the Black men are pretty much telling us to get over it.
Now being the LA girl that I am, I’ve been around multiculturalism all my life, but back on the home front I was taught to love being Black and don’t allow society to determine my destiny when it comes to love, marriage, career, finances, etc… With that being said I haven’t beaten myself over the head when it comes to Black men dating White women or “Others” because at the end of the day why the hell would I want to invest my time or energy into someone who didn’t feel that women like me aren’t worthy of their love? The negative stereotypes of Black women are getting old as well. People are not perfect yet Black women are held to an unrealistic standard of perfection and if we do not meet that standard, we’re ghetto trash unworthy of honor, respect, or love. Yet white women and “others” can have sex tapes, act like whores, have disgusting diseases, and still be marriage material. FUCK I’m GETTING PISSED.
In the past my thoughts on interracial dating has been as follows: Folks should be allowed to do whatever they want without criticism. My only beef is with Black men or anyone else who feels the need to bash another group as justification for their choices. On a personal note, I’ve never lost out to a man of my choice over a White girl or “other.” Honestly I think my whole view towards Black men who date outside of their race is indifference. Do you! I don’t despise you but I’m probably not going to invest in you either. Perhaps the day that happens to my whole mentality will change about interracial dating. If a Black man ever turned me down because of his preference for others I might laugh then I will go about my business. I don’t need to reproduce with anyone who has self hate in their genetics.
In defense of Sista Toldja (sorry to bring you up gal but you were under fire yesterday), I may not agree with all of her philosophies but I understand that she is coming from a position of love and respect for Black people. Anyone who puts Blacks above all else is good in my book regardless of how radical their views might be. I respect and appreciate diverse Black views on how to uplift our people even if they may conflict with my own. On another note, I’m going to need all the White, Asian, Latino, and “other” women check themselves. Sucking, fucking, or befriending a Black man doesn’t give you insight to the Black experience. That’s like me claiming to be the expert on all things Asian because I watch anime and eat Sushi three times a week.
why not get over it?? why whine and carry on over someone who is not attracted to you for whatever reason it may be?? if you aren’t the ideal woman for him, whether it be on the foundations that your race, hair color, skin tone, eye color, intellectual aptitude, height, weight, religious beliefs, why can’t you be happy that he found the love he was looking for, instead of taking it as a slap to the face?? why miss out on something beautiful just because the package is something you aren’t used to?? the fact that people look at it as a direct insult to them makes me wonder about their situation!! if you see a man or woman happily in love with someone outside of their own race, why does it make a difference to you?? do you think that you would love him or her better or that they would be happier with you than the person they are with?? this is not an attack on you, but just specific questions to the general public about why do it matter??
you talk about the lack of quality people out there to fall in love with when most of the time, if they don’t fit into this cookie cutter mold (the car, the job, the salary, etc.) they are overlooked without a second glance!!! however, when someone else pays attention to them, mostly because they can look past the issues that you had with the person, and they are of another race, you get up in arms over it when, again, you didn’t want them in the first place?? just because i’m in love, very compatible and truly happy with a woman of another race doesn’t mean that i have no respect or loyalty for a woman of my own race!! but with what many of you are saying is that we have to sacrifice the happiness of self for loyalty to the race!! and if you are talking about possible resentment developing within the relationship, i can guarantee that their will be resentment throughout a relationship built on this foundation!!
now growing up in downtown, s.w. atlanta and college park, the only exposure to a culture other than the “hood” folks i grew up with were the ones i learned about in the media (actually, the one white boy (el)roy in the neighborhood was probably the blackest thing walking…found out about N.W.A. from him) and what i would hear from the ignorant people that surrounded me, yet this didn’t stop me from getting to know other cultures and races for myself!! and even if they did conform to the stereotypes, i knew that those few didn’t represent the whole race!! but if the the shoe fits, might as well make the outfit match!! and by that i am saying that not everyone is meant for my love and what i look for in a woman, my wants and needs from a woman, transcends color and complexion!! i need the support and love, the understanding and nurturing nature, wanting to be with me as much as i want to be with her and be happy about it!! if she is black, white, purple or blue doesn’t make a damn bit of difference!! i’m not going to give up my personal happiness just for appearances or to look as if i’m a real “brotha” because no one or no thing can define me except for me!!
as for me, i have a loyalty to PEOPLE who are about something rather than to a nationality, or ethnicity!! yes, i have high hopes for my race and i hate that some of the stereotypes and labels haven’t been removed, but since there are people who act in accordance to those stereotypes and labels, it would be unfair of me to walk around with blinders on saying that these are totally unfounded lies set up by the man trying to keep us down!! i know ghetto a$$ women of all color!! i know trashy sluts of all races and nationality!! and these women get the same treatment from me, no matter what!! you won’t find me getting with brittany spears or paris hilton just like you won’t find me getting with new york of flava of love fame!! i don’t want what they have to offer and color has nothing to do with it!! if we were the last 4 people on earth, you can best believe that i’m not going to pick out new york over the rest just because she is black!! i’d rather kill myself than be with any of them!!
“i have a loyalty to PEOPLE who are about something rather than to a nationality, or ethnicity!!”
Don
I started telling my oldest son about 5-6 years ago that the one thing this entire world can see is that you are a Black. Man. Now was else you got? Beyond that what else do you plan to do to be identified and recognized in this world?
My desire is to dissuade him from the “I am black man, hear me bytch and moan” much treaded way in life. Hopefully he will learn that as a man he has to be accountable for the path he chooses in life so make the best of it.
I give this knowledge to my son daily…I give him the tools to be a strong person…and trust him to build a strong man…
“I am black man, hear me bytch and moan” much treaded way in life”
I know a guy like that and that’s why we are no longer dating. I don’t like to surround myself with negative people like this.
I like what the people were saying yesterday about being attracted to people of other races. If you are attracted (physically and otherwise) to women (or men) of other races, then just say that you are attracted to them. Love, support, nurturing, or whatever else you look for you can be found in a Black woman, even if you haven’t met her yet. Any and all of the qualities that one finds in a woman (or man) of a different race can be found in a Black woman (or man). I just think it’s much easier (and more fair) to say that you are attracted to all races (or even one particular race), and therefore will date as such, rather than saying, I couldn’t find qualites A, B, and C in a Black woman, so in order to find them, I dated Other and therefore now I’ve found true love.
I don’t think anyone is saying that those qualities *can’t * be found in black women. What they are saying is that they *did not* find them in the black women that they dated. However, they found it with their current (non black) squeeze.
My view is that if I’m looking for A, B, C, and D, then I should attempt to make things work with the first person that I find with A, B, C, and D for whom I also am be embodiment of what they are looking for. If the person is not black, then it suggests that race was not among the factors I was looking for in a mate.
No matter how much it bothers us, at this point in our lives, (I’m making some assumptions about the age ranges of ppl here), I don’t think the things we look for (deal makers) are going to change too much. And certainly they’re not changing if someone’s method is to attack. If we want to influence people. . . we need to be a lot more subtle
.
“My view is that if I’m looking for A, B, C, and D, then I should attempt to make things work with the first person that I find with A, B, C, and D for whom I also am be embodiment of what they are looking for. If the person is not black, then it suggests that race was not among the factors I was looking for in a mate.”
HALLELUJAH!!!!!
preach on!!!!
Exactly…just say you happened to find LOVE with that person. Stop using “well, black women/men don’t seem to like me, so I had to go elsewhere”. Stop saying “I couldn’t find somebody that liked Star Trek that was my own race, so that’s why I’m with Becky or Mei Ling”. Excuses are like…opinions…SO NOT CUTE!
(closet trekkie) but a cute one!
Wow don giovanni. Took the words right out of my mind.
Did he really…no surprise there…he loves the whole mixed world thing…all the while he doesn’t, hasn’t and will never date outside of his race…unless of course he stands up his friend of 2 years for some German chic he met recently.
..a bit of a conundrum ey.
Muse says: “Honestly I think my whole view towards Black men who date outside of their race is indifference. Do you! I don’t despise you but I’m probably not going to invest in you either.”
why wouldn’t you invest [emotionally]in a black man that dates outside of his race?
Because investment is reciprocal. I can respect you has a human being or even a friend. But you don’t get ‘brother’ status if you don’t take that role in the community and I don’t care how active you are. When you decide that you are going to do something like that, you put yourself in a different category.
oh that’s right a black man can’t reciprocate [emotionaly] with a black woman if he has ever dated outside of his race. that’s just categorically implausibe huh? impossible huh? even Muhmmad, Jesus, Rev. Wright and Farrakhan believe in atonement. (and that’s just one avenue to take) not saying you need or have to attone
No, he can repent and atone for his sins against Black women, lol. As my friend Maya says “You can always come home. We’ll leave the light on for ya!” LOL!
And I am referring to men who are currently dating a White woman. If uou used to date one but are dating a sister now, that’s not what I meant. When you are engaged in deviant dating, you are not in my circle of trust.
And for the record, that “Maya” would be me. So, please, feel free to challenge the statement that I will not budge from – neither now nor never.
Raggedy niggas have my cultural electric bill SKY HIGH.
well that aint what you all have been saying and agreeing to. what i’ve read said that if a black man dated a non-black woman Toldya Girl, Muse and Teesh wouldn’t invest [emotionally] in him. (…and perhaps infer that other black women shouldn’t waste their time either)
Teesh said something earlier that made me think: you all have probably already or will in the future have dated, slept with or perhaps even marry a black man that has dated outside of his race. if you don’t know, you don’t know.
THANKS FOR LEAVING THE LIGHT ON! LOL!
i haven’t found any problems coming back home whether you all feel i was not worthy of investing in emotionally or not. (cause i have dated outside my race.) i guess that’s just to good for my ass.
“i make no apologies crooked policies.” Jay Z
smile:) i love yall. serious shit.
No GK, you are cool until you get with Becky, and you are cool when you come to your senses. But while you are swirling it out….you are on restricted brother status. I still love you, but I won’t fight for you or hold you down they way I would have.
In my opinion, dating someone that is not black does not make you any less black. It does not stop you from being a brother or a sister.
I also think there are different reasons for dating outside of your race. Some men do date non-black women as trophies. Clearly, they have some other issues going on. Some people though can truly see past color…I don’t think that is wrong.
Also, what about people that are mixed? I know that it’s generally accepted that a half-black and half-white person is black. But…is it fair to create this rule that they too have to date only black people?
Although I can understand the frustration of black women on many levels, I feel limiting yourself to one type of people to love and procreate with is shallow and judgemental. I am a black woman and I am generally attracted to black men. Does that mean if I found a connection with someone outside my race I wouldn’t take it…heck no. Love is blind…that’s part of what makes it so beautiful.
what does a role in the community have to do with happiness in life and finding love with someone?? also, why does being pro black mean being anti-everyone else??
Who said it makes you anti-everyone else? I have never said anything derogratory about White or Asian women in general on here. But if you are Pro-Black, then BE Pro-Black. A lot of cats don’t know what pro-Black means. You can’t be pro-Black when the police kill a Black man, Pro-Black when you feel discriminated against….but then when you choose the person with whom to share your most intimate self, “pro-Black” does not apply?
Black men are more guilty of this than Black women. That’s because a lot of brothers confuse pro-Blackness with pro-BlackMALEness. Sisters aren’t in the equation.
When I say the community, I mean the Black community. And tell me again what exactly a brother is doing for the psyches of the little Black girls around the way when he brings Becky or Sue Ling around? Reminding them how society devalues Black women. Making it ‘cool’ for the young brothers to think Black women don’t have to come first. Smacking the proverbial faces of the Black women who fed and clothed his ass, likely without a Black man’s assistance.
in my world…I COME FIRST!!! i am not about to sacrifice my happiness for some fabled thing called “black love” if it doesn’t support my vision of happiness for me!! and when i say fabled black love, i’m talking of the versions that is portrayed in the media!! it doesn’t mean that i’m not in support of black love but if i am in ten consecutive relationships with black women who treat me wrong and doesn’t accept me for who i am, and then come across someone who isn’t black, who treats me better than i have ever felt before and accepts for who i am, why would i give that up?? why would i toss that away?? would you toss that away?? would you toss away a proven love and happiness for a possibility that may or may not be there or in the next 50 people you date??? would you rather have loneliness for your son or daughter because they can’t find love within their community or race or allow them to be happy with someone of another race?? would they be considered a sell out??
the brother who brings home becky or sui ling is telling a young black girl that sometimes you find the love you need from others because you can’t find it in your own, and it is very much acceptable!! i was always taught to be happy, date who made you happy, marry someone who will make you happy, because in the end of it all, it is your life!! and i was taught this by THE STRONGEST BLACK woman in this world!! i was taught about discrimination in all of its forms, whether racial or ethnic, religious, economical, or whatever the case may be and the injustices that come about from these, no matter who it is against and i am all for my people bettering themselves and empowering themselves!! but that will not dictate who i fall in love with!! nor will my love for someone dictate the causes i champion for!!
Why should I invest in a man who dates outside of his race? Let me put on my finance hat for a second to explain why I won’t invest in someone who dates outside of his race. When a Black man decides to marry a White woman (or “other”) the wealth that family accomulates will not be ciriculated within the Black community. In fact that money will be invested in other areas. Wives often are the ones who dictate which charitable causes and community service the family participates in. Of course the man has the say so but generally speaking the WIFE is the one who plans the social calendar for the family and plays a large influence on where additional monies go. So why would a White woman, or “other” woman invest in the Black communty when that money could be used to enrich her own community?
Muse asks: “So why would a White woman, or “other” woman invest in the Black communty when that money could be used to enrich her own community?”
A: well since we’re talking marriage now, why wouldn’t she, she invested her womb, her resources etc. in her black husband. …and you’re right it is the mans responsibility to guide the entire family and make the final calls, (no pun) since you are using the charitable organization example. some causes are human causes that penetrate racial lines we can all benefit from that, imean since we are using charitable organizations as an example. right?
…and since you feel the money and such would/could not be circulated in the black community any longer if a black man married a white woman then how is that a defenite thing. what kind of logic says that if a black man marries a black woman then he won’t or can’t spend money with black businesses or causes. thats a pretty narrow presumptive view. and what of mullato children like Obama i guess his worth will never circulate back into the black communities because he is a product of mixed blood.
There is no guarantee that the money a Black couple makes will contribute to uplifting Black people. However I will venture to say that the probability that the wealth a Black couple creates will touch money Black hands than if an IR couple had it. Also keep in mind that there are PLENTY of White women who have Black children that grow up confused and no ties to their ethnicity. Unfortunately some of these kids don’t discover their other half “The Black ness” until they are grown.
and while there are plenty who don’t have ties, there are plenty who do!! i can honestly say that my charitable donations, as well as my expendable income, don’t always go to the black community, just as most people on this site!! my donations go to the causes in which i believe in!! i can’t get behind every plight that happens in the black community because not every plight in the black community affects me!! the causes that i champion for are causes that i believe in, whether it be education, cancer research (breast, ovarian, etc.) homelessness, etc., because these are the causes that tug at my heart and i feel passionate about!! that doesn’t mean that i don’t feel passionate about some of the plights of black people!! hell, i feel terrible about the starving children in africa, but i’d rather do something about the starving children in america more so than the ones in africa because the plight hits home!! i’m in america and not africa!! i think that every person in the world should have a descent education, but i’m not going to go off to south africa and do something about the state of their schools, when we have failing schools here in the u.s.!! i feel horrible about the rising rate of black teenage mothers who end up limiting their chances or making life unnecessarily harder for themselves, but that is a problem they bring upon themselves!! i can’t be responsible for them!! i feel their plight but keep your damn legs closed and you won’t have this problem!! whether my wife, white or black, stands behind me on these positions is up to her, but if i feel that i desire to give to these charities, that is my right!!
Don,
I’m the last person to tell someone how to spend their money. I was just making a general point about where the wealth ends up in an IR relationship. I contribute my time and money to Black people and other causes that I’m passionate about.
I can’t even touch on some of your other statements right now because I’m hungry and my head is about to explode.
“and what of mullato children”
and there it rares its ugly head again… “Mullato” I hate that word
Why wouldn’t they?
No seriously I’m asking why wouldn’t they.
I was talking about a different sort of investment, lol.
Speaking of mullato children, are we gonna discuss the potentially damaging implications of being raised by a person who doesn’t understand or share your cultural perspective?
We can.
If we are specifically speaking on my children, they are being raised by both parents.
If we are speaking in general there are so many factors (other than culture) in the raising of a child. Where culture fits on that list once prioritized is subjective.
I will never say there will never be any problems with the raising of mixed children or children of one race (etc) being raised by parents of a different race (etc). I do think they vary from child to child, parent to parent, experience to experience.
“If we are speaking in general there are so many factors (other than culture) in the raising of a child. Where culture fits on that list once prioritized is subjective. ”
Word.
What sort of things have you done to embrace this challenge? Like, where there strategies that you employed that you feel you may not have had to if you had White kids? What advice would you give other non-Black parents of Black kids?
“But what rips at my heart strings is that Black women are the ones crying out for respect and loyalty while it appears to me that the Black men are pretty much telling us to get over it.”
the main point behind today’s entry is that it goes both ways. both sides have legitimate concerns and issues. for every woman who feels how you feel, theres a guy who feels like this…
“you talk about the lack of quality people out there to fall in love with when most of the time, if they don’t fit into this cookie cutter mold (the car, the job, the salary, etc.) they are overlooked without a second glance!!! however, when someone else pays attention to them, mostly because they can look past the issues that you had with the person, and they are of another race, you get up in arms over it when, again, you didn’t want them in the first place??”
I see what you’re saying here, Champ.
I just wish black women’s concerns about respect were treated with a bit more seriousness and thoughtfulness. I’m deep down, soul tired of hearing from black men some version of ” get over it . men will be men. that’s just the way it is. it ain’t even all that serious.”
“I just wish black women’s concerns about respect were treated with a bit more seriousness and thoughtfulness. I’m deep down, soul tired of hearing from black men some version of ” get over it . men will be men. that’s just the way it is. it ain’t even all that serious.””
duly noted.
Girl, that’s like praying for it to rain kittens.
I have to ask this, and maybe it should have been asked yesterday, but how often does this actual conversation happen (and keep in mind, I don’t want the hyperbolic answer of “all the time”):
Black Woman: (after a long convo) I think we should hang out sometime, what do you think?
Black Man: I’m sorry, but I don’t date Black women.
***
How often does that really happen? How do so many women KNOW that these cats exclusively date “other” women? As a man, I can see how I’d know…hell, my boy would probably tell me, but he also wouldn’t put himself in a position to NOT see a woman naked by telling HER that upfront.
Hell, even if he marries a White woman, from my estimation, it isn’t like he turned his back on Black women, it’s just that he found a white woman to make a life with. I’ll use my own father as an example. He’s been married three times. He married two Black women and one white woman. He just loves women (which gets back to The Champ’s initial point).
Keep in mind, I know there are men out there that say such things. Hell, I think Wesley Snipes has said as much publicly. But if he didn’t have a microphone and a reporter in his face, would we even know that?
And I guess an additional question would be, does dating ONE white woman automatically place you in the category of not being worth investing time into?
Id like to read answers to this question as well.
I want to be flippant about this question and post a sarcastic response. . . but I will hold off for today.
P, the interracial dating conversation only rarely comes up between me and other Black men and when it does it’s because a) I know the person very well and b) we happen to be talking about their ‘dating circuit’. Three specific convos come up: 1) with my father who said that non-black women were less of a headache & less uptight [pssst...my father is "special" air quotes intended] 2) with a former friend who claimed that non-black women paid for everything and did more thangs in the bedroom [psst...we're NOT friends anymore] and 3) a guy i know in la-la-land who says non-black women are more exotic than blk women.
My point is it’s easy to make generalizations about what Black men want/feel/like when your father is among the first folks to lay claim to his ignorance and you spent a few years in college being pumped up with poor statistics about there not being any ‘quality’ Black men out there. Sometimes I have to stop and shake myself and say why do I feel this betrayal? Is it really because every Black man I’ve ever wanted to date preferred another color over me? hell no…it has more to do with key figures in my life (i.e. Papa P) having a profound influence on my judgement and skewing my reality. ya feel me?
I’m feeling like this post is just going to lead to Black men attacking the way Black women feel, in front of the ‘inquring minds’ of women of other races.
Maybe it will, and if you don’t want to answer for that reason, then so be it. But I don’t give a shit who’s watching. Dirty laundry is dirty laundry. The shit has to get washed at some point.
I think that a lot of assumptions get made, on both sides of the coin, and a lot of inflation happens, on both sides of the coin.
How Black women feel is relevant. That does not mean that it’s rooted in reality. The same goes with Black men who make the non-sensical assumptions about Black women and use them as their reasons for choosing not to date Black women.
My point with this question is one steeped in the whole idea of reality vs. perception.
For instance, there’s a crime term called “fear of crime”. Essentially people’s fear of crime is actually worse than the actual crime that occurs in their neighborhoods. But due to things like the news, media, etc., the idea of crime seems more prevalent than actually exists. Of course, this depends on where you live. If you live in the SunnySide Projects on 187 Blvd, chances are that your perception is actually your reality.
I’ll take it a step further. I went to Morehouse. I’d never seen so many well-to-do Black folks in my life. I’d never been around that many Black people looking to better themselves educationally and just in all around life. It’s a place where my reality was skewed because suddenly, my perception was that life was actually like what I observed in the AUC (Morehouse, Spelman, Clark, Morris Brown, and ITC). But once you enter the real world you see that life isn’t like that. My perception was no reality. Everybody doesn’t read and many folks don’t care to. Everybody’s not about upliftment, nor does everybody care what happens to the Black community.
Essentially, my entire point is whether or not the perception is really the reality. This is not to say that all Black women are wrong about how prevalent interracial dating is, but I’m interested in knowing how much really happens from experience.
Sadly I agree, men have been trying to justify their actions about this issue for some time. This was not an issue in the past, black men sought after white women as trophies, or as an attempt to make themselves feel better(there’s that self-loathing), but for the most part they had an allegiance to the women who slaved for them while they slaved for others.
It’s sad how blatantly it is thrown up in our face that there is no allegiance or loyalty to us. You will NEVER EVER here or see another race doing that. And you know why, because they have values that are instilled in them as babies to love their own above all else.
Somewhere along the lines we dropped the ball, and instead chose to put down and degrade one another. So you’re damn right black women are angry as hell…all those hundreds of years we stood by your side while you were raped and robbed of your manhood and this is how you fucking repay us…with this we have no allegiance or loyalty bullshit. Woooosa….*exhaling*
Seeing as how I am one of the biggest disproponents of interracial dating I will say this. I love my heritage and who I am. I identify with the past generations and what they had to endure. No I was not waterhosed down while walking to school, no one has ever denied me entrance anywhere but when people see me, no matter how bright my smile is or how long my Remi is, they see a black women. I can be as articulate as they come, but they still see a black woman.
So I say this to my men, no matter who is on your arm, or how you’ve been able to mix cultures, at the end of the day you’re still and will always be a black man. I think that the decline in two parent homes and married black couples has to do with the lack of ethic identification we now have as a race. Whites still have it, Asians still have it, and Hispanics still have it. But it seems to me that we are so hellbent on being accepted by a society that only embraces the negatives in us that we search to branch out into something that is not apart of who we are.
Now, there are men who will flatly tell you that they don’t date black women, I happen to know one(shout out to Eathan) but for the most part it won’t happen either out of shame or fear of backlash. I still believe that ANY black man who can say I love my mother but I won’t date her kind is dealing with a form of self-loathing that I have no energy or desire to invest in.
I just disagree with the whole thing…interracial dating is for losers.
“Whites still have it, Asians still have it, and Hispanics still have it.”
we don’t really KNOW that…it’s an assumption…I mean other races are marrying Black men right? IF they still have this “loyalty” that you are saying they do, they wouldn’t be available to marry Black men…just like non-Blacks can’t comment on Black communitites (or lack thereof) we (Black folks) can’t comment on their communities either…no Black…no White…it’s all a gray area…
yes they still marry black men, but they do have a loyalty where they aren’t blantantly excluding their race as so many black men do. they don’t put down the men/women of their race to marry one of a different.
black men are seen as a commodity and not just by black women, i can understand the obsession with black men, i do not fault women of other races for wanting to indulge in what we were blessed with. i fault black men for not being able to resist temptation.
well consider this from a loser, (according to your definition) i am under no illusion that i am not black in any way because i have dated a non-black woman nor do i want to be anything other than black. my having dated a non-black woman doesn’t negate my preference for black women or pride in my black heritage or my blackness in any way. i’m aware that you, Muse and Toldya Girl sorely disagree. i was in no way conciously or subconciously attempting to divest from anything black. i’m just not sure how this can apply to all black men who have dated or married outside their race. do tell? …and i’m not sure how once a black man dates outside his race devalues him to a black woman [generally but specifically you all] and lowers his stock and worth to the black community at large and a black woman in particular? do tell?
Teesh says: ” I think that the decline in two parent homes and married black couples has to do with the lack of ethic identification we now have as a race.”
i do believe that divorce rates are high across the board regardless of race. maybe a few points higher or lower if broken down to race. i wonder what’s causing the divorce rates in other races? you don’t think that the bigger influences are universal issues?
you believe specifically that black marriage divorce rates are due to lack of ethnic identity, if i read you correctly. …and you say it’s because [black men particularly] {i read this because your other comments seem to present that its the fault of black men more than blk women for interacial dating} want to be accepted by a society that only embraces the negative in them so they leave the marriage looking to branch out into something that is not a part of who we [black people] are? is this what you’re feeling? lemme know something.
hello there loser(kidding), i would like to first say that i live in jacksonville florida and i work at a university…so most of the people i interact with are white, but yet and still i seem to only date black men…and you know why…because I make a conscious decision to.
so i have no empathy or desire to invest in someone who has turned his back on me/us for his personal desires or temporary fetishes. yes, i did say selfish…and to pre-empt your question with an answer, my dating black men is a selfish desire but a cause. a cause to preserve our culture, a cause to preserve our heritage and the very essence that makes us black. yes i bare the burden of a race on my shoulders and i wear it with pride…so no i feel no empathy for your past situations b/c that was a also a conscious choice of yours…but i will gladly welcome you back with open arms.
as far as the divorce rates go, i said nothing of the sort…i said we have lower 2 parent homes and unmarried couples…meaning we aren’t even getting married anymore. the divorce rate is pretty even across the board..and i think it has a little to do with the feminist movement, which inherently has nothing to do per se wit this topic.
“Whites still have it, Asians still have it, and Hispanics still have it.”
Speaking as one Hispanic, I can most assuredly tell you that though I have been able to hold on to my language and my parents have instilled some of our culture, I am more an American than anything else and if I were to go back to my “home” country where I was born but only lived out 3 years of my life I would be able to relate like oil to water.
From viewing other Hispanics in my community I can honestly confirm that they too may have an understanding of their culture, the first generation folk probably speak Spanish, and 2nd and third generations may understand Spanish but speak Spanglish, our culture has been diluted out of a necessity to assimilate to an “American” culture, yes there are some innate things that we have managed to hold on to but even those are not as original and have been watered down.
I don’t agree with anyone assimilating…I feel that all races should hold on to their cultures. Yes you are in America so there are some things that should be done, but learning to speak the language shouldn’t come at the expense of diluting your heritage.
If I know how to speak Spanish(mi habla espanol), it doesn’t make me less black and speaking English shouldn’t make you less Hispanic. I do feel like Hispanics(who will be the largest minority populus by 2009) have it hard. You are forced by all races to assimilate because your culture is so different, but I say screw them and hold on to who you are and never let go of it.
not disagreeing with you, however holding on to a culture while being introduced to a completely different culture and trying to straddle both with out mixing is a very hard task. At some point something gives.
um, panama couple of points:
1. if he exclusively dates non-black women, i doubt he’d be trying to chat me up. that probably explains why that scenario rarely happens.
2. most black men who date inter-racially, *don’t* do so exclusively. that does not, however, mean they don’t recite stereotypes about what’s “better” or different about latin/white/asian-am. chicks when asked about their dating history.
that said, it’s usually starts as an observational thing. like “hmm, i’ve never seen my friend/cousin with a black woman. i wonder what — if anything — is up with that.”
so you ask him “do you ever?”/”have you ever?”/”would you ever?”/”why don’t you?”/”are you opposed to?” and that’s when their reasons come to the fore.
“And I guess an additional question would be, does dating ONE white woman automatically place you in the category of not being worth investing time into?”
one? no (depending on the woman). a pattern of? probably.
I dont understand where everybody got the notion that outside races are assuming they have great insight to the black experience. Asking questions about your positions and opinions is merely challenging the speaker and asking that speaker to explain their mentality. Someone couldn’t explain it, or straight up didn’t want to because “I wouldnt know.” Well duh, that’s why I ask. Some people can’t properly defend themselves without bringing in their posse of insults and accusations. But hey, like champ said. Some people will hear what they want to hear. Moving on
I agree with Jess that there’s no need for insults and accusations. You can be proud of your race/culture without insulting others. Questions are good so that it can rid of these ignorant stereotypes and educate each other. I’m from East Africa and there is a lot of diversity on the continent as there are also people from Europe, India, Asia, etc. I grew up in a multicultural area in New York and grew up people of all ethnicities and it really exposed me to a lot and I ask questions all of the time. That’s the only way to learn more about all cultures.
Jess, I don’t think anyone made the assumption that you were claiming to have insight on the Black experience (at least i didn’t)…I read every comment that was posted yesterday and my best guess is that yesterday’s post acted as a catalyst for something that happened way before VSB came along.
On the otherhand, I have had conversations with folks who made assumptions about my race, and made the most ignorant generalizations about my experience. So, I’m very sensitive to remarks that mirror those encounters. So yeah, it happens. However, I also know that not everyone feels this way towards me or my race.
Don’t say someone when you mean Sister Toldja.
I am seriously at the point of tears. I sat on this blog all day yesterday like an idiot, dodging insults and disrespect from women of other races, while Black men accused ME of being mean, eltitst, disrespectful… jumping up to defend these other women, while never even recognizing that I had been disrespected. Why? Because Black men believe just as much as anyone else this bullshit notion of Black women being these evil, angry villians and you are more than willing to constantly remind the rest of the world as such.
So I’m not willing to trivalize my experiences and my notions of Black nationalism when someone asks a question like “Why should the Black family be saved?” That question to me was so fraught with ignorance and passive disrespect. Somethings can’t be learned or taught via the comments section of a blog. If you really want to learn about some of the things I discussed (and the passive attitude I got from the very dismissive questions led me to believe you two ladies did NOT in fact want to understand anything beyond ‘how dare this girl say I shouldn’t date Black men’), then perhaps you should have asked me to point you in the direction of a book or course of study, or an offline conversation between you and I. An email, something.
I did recieve some emails yesterday from readers of this blog. One pointing out how none of the brothers seemed to notice the many times I had been blatnantly disrespected by other commenters, and one from a moderator asking ME to be more respectful.
I wasn’t going to respond or say anything else about yesterday’s subject. As I have been reminded, non-Black women have carte blanche to be snide, angry, disrespectful and elitist….but God forbid my Black ass displays anything remotely resembling indigination or frustration, cause then I am the classic evil, angry, crass, emasculating Black bitch. Luckily, the White and Asian damsels have Black Supermen to come save them from me. I wanted to play nice, but screw that. I don’t take kindly to disrespect.
I wish the Champ would take his ‘Black hat’ off.
I never once said ‘how dare this girl say I cant date black men!” as a matter of fact, I dont remember saying ANYTHING about me dating black men at all. I said that you bumping into interracial couples was racist. you attacked my entire people, and me, and said that no black man in his right mind would date me. Which, again, was a topic I didn’t touch upon. All because I questioned the reasoning behind your actions.
Read that convo over, you seemed to have structured an attack upon yourself that never happened. Or, you can cry. Whatever, doesnt matter to me anymore.
In the most respectful way posible, you don’t seem to comprehend anything I say. I don’t know if it’s ‘selective hearing’ or if I am not as skilled a writer as I once believed (will it smack of elitism if I say “doubt that”?). Let me leave you alone before one of these brothers kills me.
sister t,
***I left this as a comment for jess, but it holds relevance for you as well. I’m keeping the black hat on f0r the rest of the day, btw***
after re-reading yesterdays comments, i do see how your initial comments could have come off as condescending, and i do think that other races of people do need to be aware of how sensitive of an issue this is for black people, black women in particular.
i still do feel that sister t pushed the envelope off the table, but even if i completely disagree with the means used to address it, i do understand where her anger and frustrations stem from.
its funny, i always thought that sensitivity training was some pc bullshit, but i guess going through something like that does have some merit.
with that being said, regardless of who started it, i’m gonna ask you both to chill with the back (and front) handed insults and putdowns.
Oh…it’s so selective, b/c your initial post yesterday was eloquently written.
sister t,
i’m sorry you feel this way.
I have nothing else to say about this.
Toldya Girl Tellem: “Black men accused ME of being mean, eltitst, disrespectful… jumping up to defend these other women, while never even recognizing that I had been disrespected.”
Toldya Girl i might be stating the obvious but certainly it wasn’t me who disrespected you. maybe you feel i disrespected you by not defending you against someone else perhaps. well hell i felt a lil disrespected by being lumped in with the black men who had the psychosis you spoke of from the book. i don’t recall you acknowledging any exceptions to the rule so to speak. i began asking questions and trying to make it known that i believe myself to be a living breathing exception to the “sell outs and treasonous” to the black race men you spoke of. …besides it looks like you were doing a good job of defending your beliefs on yesterday and any other day for that matter. you didn’t seem punked or slapped around any more than you were administering it. i feel your pain but i won’t be made to feel like i allowed you to be beat up in my presence. you took off ur hoops and was handling yours regardless of who was right or wrong or who swung first. tell me what i as a black man should have said? [if i was a righteous black man, of course and not an interracial dating, disloyal wannabe] do tell?
yes Toldja came out swinging but some sort of acknowledgement to what she was saying would have been nice. i think she felt like it was her against “the others” and her brothers.
and after reading the entire comment section from yesterday i have to admit, she definitely pushed the envelope to the edge, but your lack of support sent her over.
Exactly. If I had a level headed sister like you and Muse there so I didn’t have to fight alone, it wouldn’t have been so harsh. The ‘brothers and others’ teaming up against ME, which in the case of the former is enough to make me want to cut someone, had my pressure UP.
My bad homie, I’m usually all over it. I got a little busy at work yesterday and didn’t come back and check it out.
Jess,
Yesterday you posed a question to the board asking why Black women get upset or have an attitude towards Black men who date interracially. (Forgive me if I’m paraphrasing). The question itself isn’t a bad one but in the context of what was being discussed and the plethora of opinions that were shared; I found your question to be condescending. My personal belief was that you didn’t seek a legitimate answer but the question was posed as a back handed insult towards Black woman.
The reason why I found your question to be condescending is because several Black women shared their views on IR relations. Sista Toldja expressed very eloquently (and with a little fire) why the idea of IR relationships was counter-productive to uplifting the Black community. Other women also shared their views as well. Although some of the opinions were rather radical, an intelligent person would have been able to decipher or at least come up with various reasons why some Black women feel the way they do. Anyone with critical thinking skills wouldn’t need to ask that question when a variety of positions were given to you.
Then again I could be wrong but inside you know your motive for asking that question. Personally I don’t think it was for genuine knowledge.
WELL!!! (church voice)
Did I miss the memo or is it Fuck Black Women Week in the blogsphere?
Serious question folks.
i’m curious: in the case of vsb.com, are you referring to the comments or the entries themselves? (or both)
Muse says: “Everyone wants to be one human race and are on some kumbiya mess but at the same time they are allowed to hold on to their cutural ties. Why can’t Blacks do the same thing?
who says black people can’t, i do and i’m a black man. i understand that you believe that if i have interracialy dated that i can’t have strong cultural ties. why not? that’s a self limiting belief IF you believe that?
Muse says: “My father believes that integration is the worst thing that ever Black community and now that I’m older I understand why he feels that way. Black don’t own or have anything of our own. Some view that IR relationship is a consequence of integration.”
my mother (a graduate of Alabama A&M and Tuskeegee University, bless her soul) believed the same thing about the downside of integration primarily because of the financial loses. When integration came about, black people began to be able to purchase things from white business where before integration we had to provide goods and services for our own and it birthed a merchant class and a few millionaires to boot.
some know that interracial dating was going on long before integration came about, evidenced by the many skin tones in the black race. [and all of it didn’t occur by force and rape, people were attracted/lustful to/for one another] the only way that i can see to ensure that the races never mixed [if that’s what you desire] is if were totally separated from other races.
now talk black to me.
Genius Klan,
I’ve been talking Black to you. Missed the memo? : )
Anyway my head hurts. As I stated before I’m not too invested nor am I going to beat myself up over Black men who date interracial. If you have strong cultural ties, yet you are comfortable with dating outside of your race then do you. Then again doesn’t it seem like an oxymoron for someone to say they have strong cultural/ethic ties but choose to date outside of that culture? Ding dong.
Anyway this debate is going around in circles. I have Black male friends who date outside of their race and I can still have tea with them. They are who they are and I can’t control another person’s life choices. I guess the ultimate question comes down to WHY date interracially when there are so many beautiful, fun, KIND, educated Black women running around the earth? Then again that’s just me.
Hell it makes more sense for Black women to date interracially than Black men because we are surpassing you guys economically as well as educationally so it would make sense for a woman to marry up and well the higher you reach economically, the less Black men there are to choose from…
Muse sighs: “Hell it makes more sense for Black women to date interracially than Black men because we are surpassing you guys economically as well as educationally so it would make SENSE for a woman to marry up and well the higher you reach economically, the less Black men there are to choose from…
does this not go against you and Toldya Girls’ loyalty to race in dating beliefs. (ok, i get it you’ve rationalized it in someway) so its SENSE thru probabilities over loyalties huh? isn’t love and compatibility just as rare and come at a premium just like deasant black men in this society. so wouldn’t it make SENSE for people to accept attraction, compatibility and love where they find it over loyalty? (rhetorical, of course i know you all think that doesn’t make SENSE.) so what it’s a double standard. the harder you scold black men for interracial dating the goofier this exception looks to me. i see the point but how unreal is that? (rhetorical)
Yeah, sometimes you DO get that whiff of low key hostility towards black women…
I think it is always “Fuck Black Women” week on the net, off the net, on the block, in the streets, in the news…. it’s just usually a lot more subtle.
GK- but hereeeeers the difference. When we are loyal to you all, we reduce our likelihood of getting married. It feels kinda stupid sometimes being loyal to a group that won’t recriprocate. While not ALL Black men will date interacially, stats show that you all are over 2x more likely to do it than we are. Furthermore, those of you who date us exclusively are not all that you should be in terms of how you treat us. That is a convo for another day. All this to say, while I wouldn’t date a man of another race….I understand why someone else would. Shit, my “brothers” hung me out to dry yesterday in order to defend some Asian woman who was no less bitchy than I.
Also- if we focus on dating White folks specifically….if a Black straight man dates a White, it’s a White woman. People don’t associate White women with racist opression as much as they do White men (I do! But a lot of cats don’t). Where as Black women would be sleeping with “the enemy”. “The man”. Plus, while Black men’s complicated reltaionship with white women starts with them being “forbidden fruit”, Black American women still bear in mind (at times) the rape of their ancestors by White men. Also, Black women seem to be more aware of the concept of fetishizing that Black men.
To Champ: I know you didn’t ask me specifically, so don’t cuss me out, pleaseandthanks, but if you wanted to know where on this site you might get a faint whiff of “fuck black women”, see the whole chick logic post and the comments. That might be more “fuck women” in general, but the same idea holds, at least for me. I found the post and many comments to be offensive.
*ducking for cover*
sister t,
while this…
“While not ALL Black men will date interacially, stats show that you all are over 2x more likely to do it than we are.”
…is true, that stat is extremely misleading
85 percent of married black men are married to black women, as opposed to 93 percent of married black women being married to black men. for the mouthbreathers, this means that for every 100 of us who are married, 85 of us are married to black women. (i’d link where the numbers are from, but i’m posting from my sidekick)
since theres a difference of 15 to 7 percent, technically, black men are more than 2 times more likely to marry outside of the race than black women are, but just referring to that stat only without context creates an untrue perception.
I will go on record and say that I will NOT date anyone other than a Black man. I TRY not to hold it against Black men who do, but truth be told, it does bother me – not enough to do the mean mug/eye roll. And I actually agree with some of the other commentors who say they won’t date black guys who date white girls…..I won’t do it. I don’t need to explain my rational; I just won’t. It’s one thing if the guy fucked a couple of them here and there, but if you “wifed” her, and it was a real deal relationship – no thank you. I always ask potential mates if they date white girls. If they say yes then it’s a no-go.
I live in Cincinnati, with Kentucky being an extension of Cincinnati. You would be surprised (me=disgusted), at the number of black guys who actively go across the river strictly to seek out white girls. Not beautiful white girls, but your typical PWT white girls (who are fat). It’s discouraging and gross.
While I understand others saying that love is colorblind and blah blah….it’s not for me. Everyone deserves to be happy and loved, but I truly believe that if you look for it, you can find it in your own race. Like Sister T. said, I love my Black men, despite the lack of respect and I always will.
“for the mouthbreathers”
gutty thing to say.
lmao.
15 to 7 percent? does that take Black men from 2 times more likely to 0.08 times likely to date outside their race? lol im just wonderin lol
Muse, thank you for sharing your perspective to my question in a respectful manner. No, that wasn’t the case, and that wasn’t how it was intended.
I asked why my black male friends said that their black female friends were the ones who gave them the most shit about dating outside their race. It wasn’t a personal observation, which is why I asked if it was true. On top of that, that question was posed before any sparks started flying, and before the true hardcore opinions of interracial dating came out.
I can see why it was taken offensively, but I thought I’d ask anyway. Why not roll the possibility of it around your tongue, allow it to branch off into other discussions — that maybe it’s deemed more offensive when a black man dates a non-black woman, does it carry the same amount of heat, weight, when a black woman dates outside a non-black man? why is it that the woman finds it so offensive, what are the roots behind the reason why she takes it personally, IF that statement carries truth? and who really enforces the guidelines to interracial dating’s level of betrayal, who really strikes the fear and calls taboo — white society, black society or the women inside it?
I’m still baffled as to how you guys think Toldja responded to me with “little fire.” For all this talk about history, can’t you see racism when it’s there? or is it just ignored when its directed at other cultures?
dates * a non-black man, sorry
From my perspective, Sista Toldja’s views are not racist but the result of someone who is deeply invested and passionate about uplifting Black people. Although I’m a little on the conservative side, I definably empathize where someone like ST is coming from. Unfortunately Black nationalist are accused for being racist by mainstream society because of their pro blackness. Being Pro-Black doesn’t mean that other groups have to be oppressed in the process. We have White folks for that. I do think non-Blacks are very intimated by someone who is Pro Black because there is a sense of alienation. Everyone wants to be one human race and are on some kumbiya mess but at the same time they are allowed to hold on to their cutural ties. Why can’t Blacks do the same thing? Why does every aspect of our lives have to be integrated with mainstream society? My father believes that integration is the worst thing that ever Black community and now that I’m older I understand why he feels that way. Black don’t own or have anything of our own. Some view that IR relationship is a consequence of integration. If Black people had a strong identity and foundation like other groups such as the Jews or Koreans for example then perhaps IR relationships wouldn’t be such a big deal.
“My father believes that integration is the worst thing that ever Black community and now that I’m older I understand why he feels that way. Black don’t own or have anything of our own. Some view that IR relationship is a consequence of integration. If Black people had a strong identity and foundation like other groups such as the Jews or Koreans for example then perhaps IR relationships wouldn’t be such a big deal.”
I’m actually not a fan of integration. I don’t believe in supremacy, but I don’t understand why we all HAVE to live together instead of respectfully in the midst of one another. I think integration has robbed us of our ethic identity and it saddens me greatly.
her views on interracial dating — I agree, that was understandable. Her rant on asians, however, that was racist. Please understand lol, I’m telling you that I took offense to it.
Hm. What leads you to believe that black people don’t have a strong identity or foundation? And what leads you to believe that Koreans do?
Jess because I am better at what you do I can recognize it in your doing. What you will NOT encourage me to do is belittle our people more than you have already attempted to do in your thinly veiled attempts by your distasteful questioning.
But I will say this, our foundation was much stronger 30 years ago, our ethic identity was much richer than it is now and I can only hope that with open forums of communication amongst BLACKS that we will begin to turn the tides in our favor once again.
We have to be able to talk amongst ourselves and reach one another before we can bring anyone else into a dialogue of understanding. Unfortunately for you(b/c I know you soooo want the knowledge), at this time we can’t enlighten you on our current state.
I agree with you Tecia.
Jess, how you gonna say you primarily date non-Asians and then get offended when someone comments that it looks like Asian women aren’t conscerned with solidarity because of the rate at which you date non-Asians? How you get mad about White men fetishizing you and then get mad when someone else of another race says the exact same shit in your defense? How you gonna come on here and postulate some shit about Black folks and then get offened when someone looks at YOUR people?
You don’t seem to know the first thing about Black people and that is why I said, and maintain, that I would pity a Black child who would be raised by a woman so lacking in knowledge of her child’s culture. Futhermore, I find it mindfucking that any Black man with knowledge of self would want to deal with a woman who is so lacking. But then again, any brother who would date you (not all Asian women, YOU) is probably not interested in racial solidarity, knowledge of self or any of the things I hold near and dear. So you’d probably be a damn good fit.
No person, Black or otherwise, will deny me my right to righteous indignation.
Integration= ULTIMATE FAIL
after re-reading yesterdays comments, i do see how your initial comments could have come off as condescending, and i do think that other races of people do need to be aware of how sensitive of an issue this is for black people, black women in particular.
i still do feel that sister t pushed the envelope off the table, but even if i completely disagree with the means used to address it, i do understand where her anger and frustrations stem from.
its funny, i always thought that sensitivity training was some pc bullshit, but i guess going through something like that does have some merit.
with that being said, regardless of who started it, i’m gonna ask you both to chill with the back (and front) handed insults and putdowns.
I understand her frustrations as well. I would have liked to know more about it, though. and honestly, I agreed with half the things she said, until it cancelled itself out. Our debate would have gone differently if all that “oh, well youre asian, that’s even worse” shit didn’t come into the picture. I held a lot of what I wanted to say back, but I couldn’t stop the Getthefuckouttaheah from coming out. Apologies all around, but you know how hard that was for me. My legs may have dangled into the water, but I tried very, very hard not to fall off.
I asked what I had to ask, all I want now are actual answers. Pretend champ asked them, if that helps. Ive been under familiar fire before, but since when did sensitivity stop me from probing for the truth?
“Pretend champ asked them, if that helps. Ive been under familiar fire before, but since when did sensitivity stop me from probing for the truth?”
Dude seriously, it’s not your business. That’s what you don’t seem to understand. It’s not your place to search for truth and honesty regarding something that doesn’t concern you in the least.
I’m going to break it down for you kindergarten style…you are not black. Black women are disappointed in the choices of some of our men. WE have that right, WE don’t have to break it down for anyone, because this is OUR struggle, this is OUR battle. And no matter how much truth we equip you with, YOU’RE not on our team. So why again should we feel ANY desire to help you understand something you will never be able to relate to.
I am falling to my knees and thanking de good Lawd that I went to Howard and live in a Black neighborhood and vowing on my life that my children will do the same.
THANK YOU! AMEN! TEACIA FOR VP! OBAMA/TEACIA 08!!!!!!!!!!!!
As politically ambitious as I am, VSB.com will the be reason that I will not seek a public office. I’ve been too honest on this site to be embraced by a culture who is sensitive to independent thought.
….then again I’m not running until 2012.
I had to step out of lurkerville…..
Teacia – you hit it on the nail. No explanation needed.
Stepping back into lurkerville until next time.
We really have to address the way in which Americans misuse the term “racism”. While I stop short of saying that black people can’t be racist, I do think we need to understand how a power dynamic makes it impossible for their to be true reciprocity. Meaning that if a white person doesn’t like a black person and a black person doesn’t like a white person that dislike is inherently different. Even if it manifests in a way that is identical, the root causes are as different as having melanin and not having melanin should suggest. Our contemporary understanding of racism presupposes that everything in America is all equal. This is patently false and to claim that it isn’t is self-serving to the nth degree.
My point in saying this is that it is simply not racist to make the point that most reasons for dating outside of the black race have everything to do with a system of domination that has taught black men and black women to hate themselves (or devalue themselves, or overstate how “hard” we are, or perceive other races as “easier”, etc). That is simply true. That black men don’t consciously walk around saying that they love them some white women does not mean that the choice to date a white woman isn’t a racist choice. It is. It is just an unconscious one.
We need to recognize the fact that 1) racism creates dynamics where there is no true reciprocity and 2) that the most insidious aspects of white supremacist racism functions in the most benign and unconscious ways.
The only way to make an interracial relationship truly work is to interrogate why you want to be in one. You must work actively, DAILY, to check your behavior. You have to retrain. Whether you mean to be racist or not, you’ll inevitably do somethign that reinforces the primacy of whiteness. It’s just the American way. I know it seems unfair, but white people in particular have to take responsibility for their outsized role in the world we have inherited. Racism will never go away if you don’t acknowledge your privilege and the subtle ways you reinforce it. Wanting to date black folks and having black friends in and of themselves are not anti-racist moves. They just aren’t.
If this were easy, we’d have fixed it already, folks. But there it is.
*sticking a gold star square in the middle of tyler’s forehead*
On another note, I’m going to need all the White, Asian, Latino, and “other” women check themselves. Sucking, fucking, or befriending a Black man doesn’t give you insight to the Black experience. That’s like me claiming to be the expert on all things Asian because I watch anime and eat Sushi three times a week.
Being born black doesn’t necessarily gave you insight into the “Black” experience either. Namely, because there is no such thing in reality. The only “Black” experience that exists is some idealized view of marginalization and success under fire. We pick and choose what among the gamut of experiences get to be a part of this and excoriate others at our whim when they dare to comment.
It is quite easy to exclude nearly everyone, including other black people, from the “Black” experience if one so desires.
I wholeheartedly agree with paragraph 1! But while there is no singular Black experience, there are many Black experiences, and cultural pluralism within our ranks that is unqiue to us.
kamakula,
Being Black automatically gives me insight to the Black experience because I’m living as a Black person every day. My experience may differ from other Black people who grew up in a different environments or regions but nevertheless it isn’t less or more Black than theirs. My background doesn’t give me less or more insight into being Black. My comment wasn’t meant to lump all Black people into one category. The Black experience is as unique as the individual. No one is the same. I’m just offering a different prospective.
Just out of curiousity, if you’re allowed to offer a different perspective, shouldn’t kamakula be allowed to do the same? accusation free?
Jess,
Please direct me to where I indicated that kamakula or anyone for that matter was not allowed to have his/her own prospective on being Black? I don’t recall every saying that. However I did say that non Black people do not have insight on being Black and never well regardless of how many friends, business associates, or lovers they have who happen to be Black. Their prospective will always be from an outsider’s point of view. You can quote me ont hat. Also we are all open to criticism regardless…
[quote]However I did say that non Black people do not have insight on being Black and never well regardless of how many friends, business associates, or lovers they have who happen to be Black.[/quote]
I think this will be one of those things we’ll be agreeing to disagree on. I can’t quite accept this. But perhaps that’s due to me idealizing the world somewhat in that I can imagine a “black” person growing up without experiencing any or much of the typical (whatever that means) “black” experience and so I can quite easily imagine someone else being more in tune with “black” culture and outlook than said black persons.
lawdhaveMERCY!
“After reading some of the comments on this board and others and I have to say that it pains me to know that underneath all the intellectual debate, there is so much pain between Black women and Black men. But what rips at my heart strings is that Black women are the ones crying out for respect and loyalty while it appears to me that the Black men are pretty much telling us to get over it.”
i.feel.the.exact.same.way.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for putting that out there. I said it yesterday, but it’s worth repeating: Sometimes, it really makes you wonder who’s got your back.
Urgh! The growing divide between men and women is something I’ve wondered about for a while – and not just black men and women. Yeah, the bullshit gangta rap doesn’t help, but neither do the movies, and the sitcoms, the ads… Mass media in general!
Not only do we not listen to each other, we don’t talk! I mean, really talk – not nag, or drop the lines our friends said would/should/could work, but actually listen AND talk to each other! We’re too busy listening to some idiot with too much money and a drug habit to actually pay attention to our own personal relationships and so just end up going through the motions as seen on screen – be it a music video or a bad movie (cos we always pick the bad ones to emulate).
And when it crosses our minds to actually try and do the multi-task talk&listen thing…? We get scared of what we might feel, say or do! Or of what other people (often people outside of the relationship) will think of what we feel, say or do!
*Sigh*
“Not only do we not listen to each other, we don’t talk! I mean, really talk – not nag, or drop the lines our friends said would/should/could work, but actually listen AND talk to each other!”
good point
“And when it crosses our minds to actually try and do the multi-task talk&listen thing…? We get scared of what we might feel, say or do! Or of what other people (often people outside of the relationship) will think of what we feel, say or do!”
I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. I think that in general that people and especially black people in general have a hard time expressing their feeling or talking things through. We rather generalize or discount a certain group of people thinking that they are no longer worthy and label them as dateable. If we just opened up our mouths and speak.. then sit back and listen .. (use our active listening skills.. instead of thinking of a whitty retort) we would get a lot further in our relatiohships with all people.
I hate that yesterdays post turned into bashing of people because of their race and discounting what they said because to some it is figure ed they (the people of other nationalities) cant possibly relate to anything black.
in love and relationships i think people should do what makes them happy and not focus so much on what others around them think about what they are doing. it is your life to live.. live it as you want. .
bff reports: “.. (use our active listening skills.. instead of thinking of a whitty retort)
bff, i listen to these folk and when they fininsh their shpeil i look them dead in their eyes and ask: can you listen and not just wait to talk?
Genius said:
bff, i listen to these folk and when they fininsh their shpeil i look them dead in their eyes and ask: can you listen and not just wait to talk?
Nut (rubbing her puffy afro) then doesn’t that mean that you were thinking about that witty retort the entire time? I know ya listenin but do ya hear what they are sayin?
Hey man you already said on other post that women in general talk too much. Just say your guilty of not listening, we all are. And from that comes the best caught you out there moments. When my husband stops listening I always add something that I know that he will be mad that he missed and then refuse to say it again; it works everytime. Don’t be controlled man, don’t let it happen to you. Just jokes, just jokes. It’s so stuffy in here today.
I apologize for the following rant, not pointed @ Khan, I do believe he is genius regardless of how many white girl skirts he’s lifted, just ranting
Just my two cent but wouldn’t it be easier to find solutions if we didn’t have to apologize for all hurt feeling? Just asking and yes I’m black, woman, with children married to a black man (I felt like I had to post that like the store owners during the Rodney King riot).
Look we’re talking/fighting about the same topic as yesterday even though everyone’s point was clearly made and when ya read it with no emotional ties are saying the same damn thing to each other. Can’t we just agree to disagree. Agree to respect another’s opinion. And when faced with a comment that you found offensive, don’t be controlled by the anger; instead thank sweet minty jesus that we are typing this and not yelling at each other in person because it is sooo much easier to shake it off. Not shake off the views but shake off the ill feeling of discomfort of agressive disagreement.
This forum is a blessing to us all. We get to say things we other wise would not have the courage or opportunity to say. In having that right isn’t it just the right thing to do to give it to others? Don’t attack me please, I know I’m late but I read all the comments from yesterday and most of today. I just miss my highly intellectulized, overly sexualy stimulated fam at vsb.com. If I could call ya that, I am mostly a lurker. I’m just sayin, show some love people I’ve wasted my entire work day shuckin with yall. damn.
ok yeah im waiting to talk sometimes when i should be listening. sometimes it helps to do just what i suggested though, wait till they finish, lock eye contact, pause and calmly say: can u listen, and not just wait to talk?
when you see them blink you might have their full attention.
“no, the biggest problem facing young blacks in regards to dating today has everything to do with our ears, or, more specificially, what we chose to do with them.
we are *paging my best charles barkley impression* terrible, terrible, terrible listeners.”
I would say that the biggest problem facing young blacks is the music that we listen to. Even those of us that choose not to listen to the misogynistic lyrics of most rap songs out today are still affected by them, because others listen. I’m tired of hearing songs that talk about how many women guys have had, getting and giving head, threesomes, etc. I’ve heard several songs that imply that the woman need not even have intercourse, oral sex will be sufficient, resulting in a complete loss of intimacy and feeding into the objectification of women. This music does nothing to promote positive family values and male/female relationships. Women feed into it, because it’s glamourized on tv and in the songs, and since so many women allow it, so many men perpetuate the behavior. It’s cyclical. I feel like it’s hard, because a woman with true morals and values are passed up for women who will do anything and everything, that is until the man tires of this and then is finally ready to settle down.
That’s my rant.
But in my personal life, it’s not about being a terrible listener, because nobody is really talking about anything real.
“I would say that the biggest problem facing young blacks is the music that we listen to.”
i disagree. i’ve always felt that music is more of a reflection of the current culture than the other way around. music always has an impetus, a muse, and the “why” has been and will always be more important than the “what”
I agree…music manifests as a reflection of the perception of the artist…and others piggyback/follow. Most teens actually identify with (for whatever reason) much of the crap that comes out now…and you do have to ask yourself “Why?”
Since we’re on the subject of music, I think it’s time for me to shamelessly plug a talented artist. She’s a black woman who sings country (and no she’s not having an identity crisis). Her name is Rissi Palmer. Even if you don’t like country, she’s worth listening to. rissipalmer.com
yeah, ive been on to her for a minute. she’s bad as hell too, lol
She was born in the Pittsburgh area, and she just so happens to be one of my best friends. Sorry, I had to say it! I’m proud. She’ll be performing here in late July.
“She was born in the Pittsburgh area, and she just so happens to be one of my best friends. Sorry, I had to say it! I’m proud. She’ll be performing here in late July.”
ok. so i’m formally inviting both of you to happy hour at ava that week.
Nice! I don’t know how long she’ll be in town. Alot of times she flies in and out of cities pretty quickly if she has a show. But if she’s here for a minute I know she’ll be down.
Yeah I’m with you Champ. To me blaming music is scapegoating. It’s like the assumption that Tupac made somebody kill a cop.
Generally, music just provides the soundtrack for the era we live in. And I’m not defending the music, however, I don’t think it’s fair in the slightest to blame music either.
Current music reflects, to me, that we’re an era of distraction..
“music is more of a reflection of the current culture than the other way around”
I agree!
Fly confesses: “But in my personal life, it’s not about being a terrible listener, because nobody is really talking about anything real.”
interesting and sobering. i do feel where you are coming from.
you’re right Fly, a lot of times people are attempting to have simple meaningless convo and sometimes random convo is just a start to get to whats really real. you can usually tell by the mood and non verbal communication, often within seconds.
i would hate for any of us to get in the habit of automatically scrambling your reception, assuming that most folks are not talking about shit anyway and miss some real gems. engage people sometimes and you can get more out of them than you expected to get and more than they thought themselves capable of giving.
i know it’s disappointing given the state of things but we all gotta do a better job of developing our communication skills. (transmitting and receiving) unfortunately we are going to have to pick up the slack sometimes for others who are not as developed as we are (communication wise) in an effort to understand and be understood. (i’m not talking about people in this room particularly, just in life period)
note that there are more ways to communicate than words and the emotion with which you deliver them.
do keep in mind that it aint nothing like a true understanding. (whether we agree or disagree)
here are some key if unorthodox definitions of understanding and related terminology.
Intelligence and wisdom are not the same things.
Intelligence is the ability to make finer distinctions, to know the subtle differences between things. Wisdom gives you the ability. The more you pursue wisdom, the more intelligent you become.
Wisdom is Insight. The ability to see into the underlying nature of a thing and to discern it’s true essence. To see something for what it
really is. To look past appearance into substance. To read between the lines. To know the truth of a matter.
Understanding is knowing the meaning or reason of a thing. It is about knowing why something is, and how it is so.
Prudence is foresight. The ability to see into the future of a thing and to know the possible outcomes and its effect. It enables you to make
decisions ahead of time that will lead things in the direction you want them to go.
Knowledge/Information is the substance that wisdom, intelligence, understanding and prudence operate with.
It isn’t just the amount of information you know, rather how a specific knowledge works with everything else you know determines whether it strengthens or weakens your wisdom, understanding and prudence etc.
sick dude huh?
Fly this is not personal because it’s a reply to you but it’s just my style to speak on the whole issue from the point at which i’m inspired. (instead of posting a seperate commentary) yours was the jump-off today. thanks for letting me ride.
“I feel like it’s hard, because a woman with true morals and values are passed up for women who will do anything and everything, that is until the man tires of this and then is finally ready to settle down.”
I agree with this statement, but I don’t think that music is the source of the problem (though it is the source of other issues). I bet music is leading women to think it’s part of the problem b/c we hear so much casual misogyny. The sentiment behind the lyrics is “you can’t cake these hoes.” Hell, that probably is an actual lyric to some song out there.
But men have been doing this from the beginning of time. Most men want to settle with a woman who has morals and values, but if they’re at a stage in life where they just want to act up, they won’t date a “good girl” b/c they know she’ll get fed up and leave. I think that is why so many quality women are seen as just “friends.” They’re friends, until the man is ready to get it together. It’s not fair and it ties into the whole double standard thing. Many women (certainly not all) have to deal with the fact that they’re marrying a man with a savage-like past. *sigh*
I think this also speaks to men and women’s differing view on finding a husband or wife.
Men generally are dating until we’re ready to get married. Most women seem to be looking for a husband, so they start dating.
I agree with you 100%.
P says: “Men generally are dating until we’re ready to get married. Most women seem to be looking for a husband, so they start dating.”
dam thats on point!
Yeah that statement is very true P…most women are in love with idea of being in love or they just want the title (wife, girlfriend). Sometimes i like to believe that men got it right when it comes to choosing a person to love. Call it commitment phobia, player, pimp what ever…but they don’t settle. And when they do fall in love its usually once or twice and its real. For us women, we fall in and out of fairy tales over and over again. And i know my home-girls will prolly feed me to the sharks for this but..im just sayin
r u sure you’re a woman. (rhetorical) i mean i thought you were but you are making, accepting and acknowledging observations that mostly a man would see. this is unique for a woman, (if u are, no disrespect either way. can’t recall ur posts but..) not to see but to recognize, acknowledge and seemingly try to avoid fairytail living. no chick logic in that paragraph. salute!
@ genius khan: No pun taken, im 100% Feline…and thanks for the compliment
here the problem i have with your response genius…”are you sure you’re a woman…this is unique for a woman, (if u are, no disrespect either way. can’t recall ur posts but..) not to see but to recognize, acknowledge and seemingly try to avoid fairytail living. no chick logic in that paragraph. salute!”
Most women I know share the same sentiments, we’re not idiots…sure we’re in love with the idea of love. Everything in our surroundings, advertising and engrained messages says that we are supposed to be. But we are also very insightful..we ARE capable of formulating a logical opinion which apparently has been deemed male logic.
Teesh most solemnly swares: “But we are also very insightful..we ARE capable of formulating a logical opinion which apparently has been deemed male logic.”
i know Teesh, i know but thats the whole chick logic argument that as it compares to men, emotions tend to skew and negatively influence GOOD LOGIC for women especially in areas that are inherently EMOTIONAL like love and relationships.
wasn’t trying to pluck any nerves but i was being a smart ass.
…at the same time big upping NY a woman that can admit that chick logic exists and sometimes manifests in being in love with “fairytale love” so much so, that its unrealistic and harmful to women.
you hate me most days don’t ya Teesh? it’s ok you’ll love me tomorrow perhaps.
…and today’s not a good day with the emotional mood being what it is huh?
nickels all smarmy up in this mu fu.
hug urself until i can.
…and ayo where is trick daddy? you know we love the kids. LOL!
**another standing ovation**
as for me, i’m very selective in who i choose to be my mate!! i won’t settle for less than what i think i deserve, yet i am willing to compromise certain things and qualities for others because i am looking at the overall bigger picture!! the future is the bigger picture, our happiness is the bigger picture!!
WORD…(muhfuggin) LIFE…
typically we (women) date with the “kiss a few frogs to get to a prince” theory…every man has the potential to be the “one”… (I don’t believe in the whole ONE farse, but I digress)…and if he turns out not to be…then the one is still out there…
while men (assumption only since MY “skin fulte” is more of a “whistle”) date with the mindset of “treading water until ready to take the dive” type ish…that boggles me… I know men that date around (and even have long term girls) but dump them when they decide they are ready to settle down and get a new woman to make wifey…
when really, I feel, it should be a combination of the two… “quizes that lead to the final exam”…
see, this is why I feel like an enigma sometimes. I am much closer to the male in this sense, I am dating till I feel ready to be married. This creeps dudes out, especially since I am mid-30s. I try to explain that I might be missing that whole bride/wifey/mommy gene, but I don’t think they believe me. In My head, my future includes globe trotting and building empires, and that doesn’t exactly scream bottles and wedding rings, now does it? D’ah Well! *shrugging shoulders*
“But in my personal life, it’s not about being a terrible listener, because nobody is really talking about anything real.”
@Fly—I don’t like to deal with people who rarely talk about anything of substance. It seems like you don’t either. It could be time for you to meet new people/make new friends.
*reading comments*
Ok, I must’ve missed something.
*going back to read yesterday’s comments*
People, and by people I mean pretty much all the humans in the western somewhat civilized world, for the most part (see: sweeping generality) hear what they WANT to hear – not what they SHOULD hear.
If I am in a piss poor mood (which does happen), all I’m gonna hear is negativity – even if its “GOOD MORNING MS TODD!!!” If I am in a great mood I will see (and hear) the positive in everything.
A very very sexy, rather odd man I know told me one evening as we were sitting at some national chain bar drinking margaritas and cherry bombs:
Listening
Is
Fundamental
Everyday
and while on like the 7th round of margarita/cherry bomb rotation I was wholly impressed and oohed and ahhed, the shit is true even when I am sober – just not so ooh and ahh worthy.
Great Topic Champ!! Luv ur site. I’ve been observing VSB for about a month now and finally decided to leave a comment. Talk about late in the game.
I agree that most of us hear what we want to hear at times. Its definitely mentally conditioned within our communities (through media outlets) to conduct ourselves in a manner that is perceived by our counterparts as the structure of “Our” culture. Thats when most of us choose to fall into main stream while others live outside the box.
@ The Champ- “we’ve been so conditioned by the music we listen that we’ve become experts of language compartmentalization”
This statement spits Fire!! it not only speaks for music, but through television as well. Take for example, most of us will rush home to watch the BET music awards or Flava of Love with our family, kids in tow. However, how many can honestly say they have followed the 2008 presidential candidate elections. A pivotal time in history that can change our lives and impact our children’s lives for the future. What happened to shows like “A Different World”, where there was an increase of African Americans attending college during that era. We have a new kind of conduct among our youth that states, “Its cool to be stupid, wear over-sized clothes with sagging pants showing our undies, and clearly all women are bi*ches and hoes,” ignorance is cool through main stream t.v. We’ve come a long way from A Different World, this kind of mental conditioning extremely impacts our community and paves the way for the kind of lives we tend to lead throughout adulthood. …Truth, what Are we really listening too??
Hello…we’ve moved backwards. I had such hope after Cosby and ADW…ADW made me want to go to an HBCU. But the reality when I got there…made me wish I had been old enough to go to college in ’89-’90…rather than ’95.
Ya know, I didn’t go to an HBCU b/f of ADW (I didn’t get to college til 97) but I definitely felt like I got a lot of that same sort of experience that they had on the show.
In fact, it hits home for me more now in retrospect.
ADW 4 Lyfe.
“Great Topic Champ!! Luv ur site. I’ve been observing VSB for about a month now and finally decided to leave a comment. Talk about late in the game.”
thank you, and welcome and shit.
and yeah, theres no such thing as late. you can still come to the barbeque (i cant promise that theres gonna be any food left though)
Well thanks and shit, thought i had to creep up in here on some Poetic Justice tip “Hey, its your long lost counsin lucky”…thanks for the welcome:)
I have a friend who thinks Poetic Justice is actually a good movie.
What say you, newcomer? What say you?
lol!!
Heeey i think Poetic Justice is a good movie?!
WTF is wrong with poetic justice?!?!?!
NY…you spit fire…
Flava Flav…kids in tow…a mess!
PARENTS have to handle this…period…the future is contingent upon it…
I don’t have cable at home so my son and I don’t have those options…we watched the debates and the co-parent took our son with him to vote (and caucus)…we listen to CDs in the truck and go outside alot…his fisher price mp3 player has everything from Vegetales to TCQ to Badu to Elmo and back again…I can’t control what he gets when he is not with me, but I try to make it clear what is “nourishing” and what’s “junk food”, so he will know when he has to decide for himself…I am sure I occasionally fall short…but I take my mommy-ness seriously…
we reap what we sow…and what’s being sown in the media is poison! pyschological warfare with a dope beat! EFF DAT!
@Goodness : Excellent, i don’t have kids yet, but when i do, i hope to eliminate the word McDonalds from their vocabulary. There’s something about that evil golden arch that’s not right in my mind, but that’s another topic….our progress as a people has to start in our homes with our families. When u sit back and observe different communities and cultures. It seems like the black community is at the top of chart for losing our family connection. I think that stems from the children we raise up to be thugs and video vixens. I’m not saying all house holds are this way, but its enough. i agree that exposure is a must with children. Its our responsibility as adults to teach them that the world is bigger than the corner of their blocks…
he has been exposed to McCrack…can’t lie about that…when I was in college, I took him there to let him get a Nappy Meal and play on the playland so I could finish my assignments, in the air conditioning…(shrugging) it was the best thing I could think of at the time…working full time,single mommy-ing and the demands of higher education, had me on McGyver mode…for real…
feels ya NY.
btw, i didn’t watch the BET awards yesterday. i surfed right thru it. i saw 2 guys pull up in a dodge truck on the red carpet and then i turned. …and i am keeping up with the election. i mean, i’m not a political analst or anything. gots to be more careful what thoughts we let in your subconcious. word life!
now where the f**k is P-Jack today? (that question wasn’t aimed directly at you NY)
I’m here broham. Work has been busting my arse for the past few days. But believe you me…I was more present in yesterday’s debate than you might realize.
Behind the scenes work is just as important as the stars on the stage.
there you go, thats wussup.
STAYS watching CNN, FNC, and whoever else is discussing real sh*t…and oh yeah, still on my BET boycott…I can’t deal with the f*ckery.
BET = Black Embarassment Television…
since they have been purchased by MTV/Viacom the formatting has changed, news has all but disappeard (and is weeks old) and don’t get me started on the obvious lack of Cousin Jeff in the roster…WHERE THE F*CK is Cousin Jeff? I miss him…
THEY ARE TRIPPING!
Cousin Jeff will actually be hosting Hip-Hop Against America II tonight @ 8pm. This one will focus on the very topic we speak of in today’s topic.
FYI…a good book I read called “Why Can’t You See Me? Good Men Do Exist?” has an insightful couple of chapters on Hip-Hop’s influence on male/female relationships and how it has and will contribute to family disfuction.
thanx for the heads up. i saw the promos but forgot it was today. good look.
Yeah I’m a CNN chic, my daughter loves Disney…it’s fair to say that we watch BET maybe twice a year…oh except now that Baldwin Hills is on. I’m kind of obsessed with that show.
But I fall asleep to CNN and wake up to every morning…hey I like being informed.
Yeah, people don’t listen to what other people are saying because half the time, they don’t really want to know. They just want their beliefs and ideas to be validated, and if you start talking some stuff that doesn’t validate them they shut down and stop listening.
I don’t think men and women can really start bridging the comunication divide until each side gets comfortable with the fact that they may hear some things they won’t like and they may be disagreed with, but they need to regroup and keep it moving gracefully. Just because one man/woman holds a point of view that you find disturbing doesn’t mean all of them do.
Amen and FGB Fellowship Choir on today’s post! I have long believed that one of the ways we get in our way is by NOT listening…hearing WTF we wanna hear when it’s convenient for us…and letting everything go in and out when it’s not. I mean, for every argument about black men this or black women that, you can find many an example that goes against it.
What I also notice is this…(some) black folks want sh*t easy. We don’t wanna do the necessary work on ourselves to be the best we can be. We’d rather complain and make excuses. We listen to the wrong things, and clown folks who say what needs to be said. And we wonder why OTHERS may get the idea that we’re all ghetto thugs or baby mamas.
“What I also notice is this…(some) black folks want sh*t easy”
do you think this is due to laziness, or a sense of entitlement?
I think both are valid, and depends on the person…for some, it may well be laziness…others…entitlement is definitely a factor.
We need Dave Chappelle to return and visit the issue of relationships. If anyone has the ability to point out the bullshit in our lives in such a way that we don’t get too offended, it is him.
As a backup, I’d also suggest Jon Stewart or Chris Rock.
Chris Rock has my vote!
I think folks are having a hard time listening b/c they are still holding on TIGHTLY to past hurts. A lot…a LOT of Black men and women are very bitter, angry, and aren’t really going to hear anybody else’s perspective b/c their own is so clouded.
You got men still holding on rejection from women in the past, you got women still holding on to betrayal [real and perceived] from previous dudes. It’s like this big dark cloud is floating above so many of our heads and follows us wherever we go.
It just seems like many of us aren’t dealing w/ each other on an individual level. Folks are coming to the table EXPECTING the new chick/dude to be a certain way. We stereotype each other more than white people EVER could.
We really need to just friggin relax.
**Standing up and Slow Clapping for K**. So true. I saw a shirt a couple of years ago that said ‘Relax Bitch’. Wish I had bought it…
Do you think other groups don’t have the same baggage issues? If no, why?
@hostess: i believe other groups have the same issues, but not at this magnitude. It all stems back to slavery. Willie Lynch letter, heres an example idealistically during slavery black men were taught to KEEP THE BODY, TAKE THE MIND! In other words, break the will to resist.
and here’s another (a little long, but worth reading):
she will train her offsprings in the early years to submit to labor when they become of age. Understanding is the best thing. Therefore, we shall go deeper into this area of the subject matter concerning what we have produced here in this breaking process of the female nigger. We have reversed the relationship; in her natural uncivilized state, she would have a strong dependency on the uncivilized nigger male, and she would have a limited protective tendency toward her independent male offspring and would raise male offsprings to be dependent like her. Nature had provided for this type of balance. We reversed nature by burning and pulling a civilized nigger apart and bullwhipping the other to the point of death, all in her presence. By her being left alone, unprotected, with the MALE IMAGE DESTROYED, the ordeal caused her to move from her psychologically dependent state to a frozen, independent state
What book is this from? Willie Lynch? Mis-Education of the Negro?
Nevermind…I see it.
And another one:
THE NEGRO MARRIAGE
We breed two nigger males with two nigger females. Then, we take the nigger male away from them and keep them moving and working. Say one nigger female bears a nigger female and the other bears a nigger male; both nigger females—being without influence of the nigger male image, frozen with a independent psychology—will raise their offspring into reverse positions. The one with the female offspring will teach her to be like herself, independent and negotiable (we negotiate with her, through her, by her, negotiates her at will). The one with the nigger male offspring, she being frozen subconscious fear for his life, will raise him to be mentally dependent and weak, but physically strong; in other words, body over mind. Now, in a few years when these two offsprings become fertile for early reproduction, we will mate and breed them and continue the cycle. That is good, sound and long range comprehensive planning.
Ok so what can each of us do to start to reverse the situation? Or do we accept it as it is and just roll with the punches??
The problem has to be recognized first and then you have to take the steps to alter your actions.
These two examples are elements of truth in current society, but unless one seeks this information or someone (preferably within the household) teaches, reinforces, and make efforts to right the wrongs, so to speak…this is a notion that may exist.
In fact, it makes so much sense that it’s a bit of a wake up call, but when you think about it the letters of Willie Lynch are filled with them.
@ Hostness: Whoa!! we never accept as is. Actually we’ve always held the tool to assist with this problem all along, it will take time to understand and reverse this cycle. The Answer is Education. Knowledge is key and its free. knowing your history and teaching it to the generations (your children) after you is very important. Teach them about the Great Sphinx in Egypt, the Ottaman Turkish Empire, the Paintings of Michel Angelo…etc. thats exposure. That will encourage them to want to know about other things…thats why they ask so may questions at a young age. Children look to you for guidance. See thats the difference between us and them when it comes to family. They education their children at a young age and expose them to the Trades. Its also exemplified around the household, so when the child becomes of age the business naturally goes to the heir.
See education was the one thing taken away from us at the beginning of slavery and wasn’t restored till decades after. We are playing catch up at this point in an ever changing world…
you and your education is key bit!! it doesn’t apply to everything and will get old very soon!! ha ha ha!!!
yep education and experience for the purposes of business and financial concerns is the biggest piece of the puzzle in my minds eye.
@Don Giovanni: Education never gets old in the knowledgeable sense. haven’t u heard the saying: Know a little about a lot and it takes you a long way. It applies to our everyday lives, because you would not exist without education. Everything that you perceive to be real was learned. and was educated/taught or a learned behavior. Without knowing is not to exist at all, such as in a veggie state of mind. Even the mentally ill are educated in some way through therapy…(Webster’s)Education: the activities of educating or instructing; activities that impart knowledge or skill
this is deep NY…happy you decided to start posting.
Thanks Chica!! I enjoy this site. Its very enlightening, plus with all the positive feed back, it really works wonders for my ego (writing skills). Always thought it was one of weakest skills.
Well think again mister…welcome again and shit.
@Teacia: Well think again mister…welcome again and shit.
Mame is more appropriate;)
sorry miss lady…i should have known something this insightful was coming from a chic. i wasn’t paying attention to the gender context in your other posts…man i need to put on my attention goggles.
Honestly, I can’t speak much to what other racial groups have going on in this regard. I’m just going by what I see with US.
@ kamakula: We stereotype each other more than white people EVER could.
that is soooo true..what’s the saying? ” what’s white is Right..”, some people actually really believe that
I can’t take credit for that one. That belongs to K.
No truer words have ever been spoken…
This is probably THE biggest seed of frustration that we (men & women) have within us. Not to get all Oprahish on y’all, but I remember looking at an episode when she had Bill Cosby on and he stated “hurt people…hurt people” and as simplistic in nature as that statement is, it resonated with me and explains what K just said in this post. They say the past can determine your future and it’s true on so many levels.
“It just seems like many of us aren’t dealing w/ each other on an individual level. Folks are coming to the table EXPECTING the new chick/dude to be a certain way. We stereotype each other more than white people EVER could.”
^^^^This is really true…there have been many times prejudgment may have blocked true love and/or true friendship; maybe even just nuggets of eternal wisdom that would’ve helped us in our everyday lives. I really don’t even know how you let go of past instances that may have scarred you emotionally that you may not even know exist. The breeding frustration of something you don’t understand can produce these feelings and even more frustration comes when you DO understand, but can’t seem to let your guard down to be able to allow the possibilities…even if the results end up being the same. Are you a glutton for punishment or a warrior of emotions in the pursuit of love?
@AkShone…beautiful…and well put…
I don’t think we can let go of past pains…but when you can come to terms withthem and understand them (within context) you create the power to be able to manipulate the way they effect your future…
perception is truth…if you clarify your perception of the past…it can nourish your future…
“past bullshit is fertilizer for you to grow”, and shit like that there…
Per usual, I didn’t read all the comments…
If someone said any of the things you listed above, I’d ask some probing questions. And I bet, nine times out of ten, they can’t give too many concrete, statistically significant examples of what led them to hold those opinions.
At the same time, I don’t think it’s JUST listening. It’s comprehension. It’s agreeing on a definition of an adjective. It’s communicating. Too many Blacks are socialized not to communicate. Go into many AA homes and you hear kids told to shut up at every turn. They don’t learn to verbalize, in any detail, without cursing, how they feel about much of anything. So when these kids get older and start being in relationships, in their minds, they might have a thesis worth of feelings but they lack the ability to verbalize them in a way that people can understand. And they lack the higher order thinking skills to ask “WHY” things are as they are.
BRILLIANT assessment…
“Too many Blacks are socialized not to communicate. Go into many AA homes and you hear kids told to shut up at every turn. They don’t learn to verbalize, in any detail, without cursing, how they feel about much of anything.”
This is so true… and it starts very early. My niece’s mother use to tell her to shut up when she was a baby. She was just babbling!! That’s what babies do!! Needless to say, we got custody of the child (for various reasons including the action listed above) and for a long time, she did not make any type of verbal communication like the other kids. I believe that the experience scarred her.
Now 3 yrs old, she talks up a storm. True, she can be a little too talkative at times but don’t tell her to be quite because I remember how she was treated before. I want her communication skills to be beyond average. I want her to be able to tell me if something…
I know I went off topic but your comment made me think of this incident.
Ha. I’m gonna go right off topic with you. Studies show low income Black kids hear nearly half as many words as white (across incomes) by the time they make it to school. The higher the Black income, the more words the kids hear but it still doesn’t reach the number of words white kids hear. Think about that.
further off topic…the co-parent teaches our son one multi-syllabic word per week…word/definition…and it’s HILARIOUS to see him use it in a sentence in public…this weekend we were shopping, and he was ready to go…he said really loud..
MOMMY WHEN CAN WE GO HOME…WE’VE BEEN OUT ALL DAY AND I AM EXACERBATED!!!
the looks on the faces of the people in the store…priceless…he talks alot because of who hs mommy is…(shrugging) I am a communicator fo’true…this made me think of that…carry on…
LOL! I love it!
*make plans to initiate similar teachings*
now that’s good shit, exacerbate. i mean that’s just to GOODENess for yalls ass. luuubbbsss it. you killing me how you refer to ol boy as the “co-parent” so clinical when not long ago it was so intimate obviously. LMAO!!
I call him co-parent (using the term loosely as of late) because the connotation of “baby daddy” leaves me disgusted…EVERY “baby daddy” I know is still hitting it, or could if the mood struck…and that ain’t the case w/ her royal red highness! his formal title is “ex-husband” or “artist formally known as my b*tch”…LOL…but that always opens the door to questions and since I haven’t so much as given the brother dap in almost 5 years…co-parent fits…clear…concise…and very accurate…plus his name is Clarence (like my son) and it just confuses the legacy with all those Clarii (plural of Clarence) in the mix…lol
further off topic…the co-parent teaches our son one multi-syllabic word per week…word/definition…and it’s HILARIOUS to see him use it in a sentence in public…this weekend we were shopping, and he was ready to go…he said really loud..
MOMMY WHEN CAN WE GO HOME…WE’VE BEEN OUT ALL DAY AND I AM EXACERBATED!!!
hmmm…this might be your ticket out of the corner
if you liked that…you will LOVE this…I do spoken word…my son saw me on stage for the first time last week…(read the blog) now he wants to get on stage this week…so I am going to let my son “spit” tomorrow night…I will record it and it will be on the blog by Monday!
that should keep me out of the corner at least until AFTER the holiday weekend!
BTW…I have a show tonight ya’ll…all my Dallas area folks hit me on gmail (if you think you can come) for more info…I would LOVE to meet you in person! (before the BBQ that is…
@ Good… exacerbate is one of my favorite words… I love it. g’head little one.
I also love that you refer to “the co-parent” as such.
Because your statements are so exact I’m going to have to point out that this is not true in all case.
My 5 yr old daughter can talk circles around most adults, yet alone her white counterparts. My mother made us read the encyclopedia and from the day my daughter was born she was taught how to speak and read. My bosses daughter is the same age and isn’t able to express herself nearly as clear as my daughter.
Now while I believe that this statement is true on many fronts(I do have cousins), it is definitely not exact.
My statement was aboout studies which draw conclusions based on the majority. It could be that you are part of the minority. You might be a part of the NOT-shocking results. There’s always going to be some that don’t fit into the MOST category.
there is an article called the 1500 difference (or something like that) it literally breaks down the correlation in language development to poverty (I read it 7 years ago so it isn’t that fresh in my brain)
but the basic premise is that those in poverty develop a basis of x number of words, middle class x times 300 and upper x times 900. The less money you have the less you put an effort into reading and being read to. it was very interesting
During the time that she wasn’t verbally expressing herself (and even now) we read books together (the same way that my mom read to us as children). When ever I’m home, she comes with an arm load of books and ask me to read them to her.
I’m just happy that she shows an interest in it.
“Too many Blacks are socialized not to communicate. ”
Paul Mooney said…”everybody wants to be a ni99a, but nobody wants to be a ni99a”…the negative Black persona is permeating Western culture at a frenzied pace…in time with this fact, it’s not just “us” anymore…every household (regardless of race) that (thinks) they are embracing the “hip hop” culture by mimicking what BET tells them is the Black experience, is creating this same disparity in their homes as well…
but I co-sign all day on what you are saying…all(muhfuggin)day!
Champ the last 2 posts have stimulated some very good dialogue. you did a good job of finding and describing the subtle yet profound differences between two sides of cliche beliefs. cheers to you! good feeing job b.
sometimes people dont listen because they have already made up their mind about you and it doesn’t matter what you say they are gonna perceive it the way they want to.
if i sit and talk to an older gentleman, as a cute bubbly young thing, he is gonna look at me like a baby babbling and cooing just because of my age and what he expects me to think.
when i talk to my friends, they actually listen to what i say and process it cause they understand me and they know me well.
like another commenter said earlier, we should stop judging one another and taking everything for its face value or what we “think” they mean.
on the other side, though, when you are constantly exposed to people who say one thing and do/mean another, or YOU YOURSELF say one thing and think another to mask your vulnerabilities to people, naturally you are going to put up a wall when you interpret what another person is saying.
Is the key to leave your circle? I don’t think it’s always good to sit around talking to people who are like me. I need exposure to other people because it causes me to rethink my beliefs or at least revisit how I justify my beliefs. But it takes a certain level of trust a maturity to be around people who aren’t like you and to be able to effectively and efficiently communicate.
AMEN!
you lose touch with WHYyou feel the way you feel if your tenets are never challenged…
EXCELLENT POINT!
I don’t think a lot of Black people, if given a choice, would be Black. What’s amazing to me is that it’s not the Ray-Rays who’d trade Blackness at the drop of the hat. It’s those of us who are doing ‘well’. Why is that?? Shouldn’t those who are doing ‘well’ be the most content in their brand of Blackness?? Or have the talented tenth done so well because of a subconscious need to prove to whites they are ‘worthy’ and ‘different’? Those are the questions NOBODY wants to answer. Hell they don’t want them asked. And now that I think about it, I probably should have posed these questions yesterday when there was discussion about being something other than Black.
“I don’t think a lot of Black people, if given a choice, would be Black.”
i don’t know if i agree with this.
“I don’t think a lot of Black people, if given a choice, would be Black.”
I KNOW I don’t agree with this…
I don’t agree with this. To be honest, the times I think about being black are few. It comes to mind whenever I’m filling out forms that ask about racial identification or going for a fellowship that targets minorities. It comes to mind if I’m out in the southside and thinking to myself, man, I wish there were simply more black chicks around to talk to.
If I were to compile a list of words that describe me, the ordering would likely go like this: male, robotics engineer, grad student, a few more things, african-america, a few more things.
I choose african american mainly because I’m literally an african american. But the point is, my racial makeup is not among the first things I think about when describing myself. Strangely enough (and relating to yesterday’s topic), male is the first one that pops into mind.
I DEFINITELY don’t agree with that statement. I wouldn’t want to be any other race besides Black. EVER!!! Black people are the most admired race….both from a distance and up-close. Yet, NO ONE can live in our shoes. Despite the foolery that we engage in regularly, no other race is as strong or prideful (double edged sword) as we are. They could never walk our shoes, or talk our talk. Right or wrong, I have to respect that WE are never apologetic for who we are.
Very good post! This post and yesterday’s post have brought upon many issues that are affecting the community. There is growing division between black men and women and this is having a very negative impact on our families. We need more dialogue to address these issues.
CNN’s doing a special report black men, women, and black families to address many issues in the community and misconceptions. It airs on the 23rd/24th and the link is: http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/black.in.america/
Italian Vogue is also coming up with their July issue that will exclusively feature black models. The editor made this special issue because the beauty of black women have been extremely underrepresented in the fashion industry/media. It comes out this week in Europe/next week in the US.
This division…If Black men are getting screwed over, and Black women are getting screwed over, why would one want to hitch their wagon to the other? Especially when prior hitching got us…HERE?? I feel like the reason there’s so much division is that deep down, NOBODY wants to be associated with the losing team.
This is why I surround myself with winners. Hee-hee. But if one believes that to be too Black is to invite the loss of the game of life, why would s/he bother??
Wow…that statement in itself seems a bit negative. I think the real question is why would be consider one another losers. If we’re the losers, well who in the hell are the winners..white people, asians, hispanics(well hell they have it hard), but really who are the winners? And what exactly classifies us as losers?
It should seem negative because it is. But I’ve heard it in different forms from different people when they justify their dissatisfaction with the opposite sex by saying “ALL BLACK WOMEN ARE ____” or “ALL BLACK MEN ARE___”. If the oppostie sex are looser (lazy, HIV having, DL living, baby making, loud talking, etc.) subconsciously why would you (not you per se) want to align yourself with them?? It’s like picking teams in dodgeball. If you know that all the third graders are great aimers, you’re hoping to get picked for that team. You wanna be down with that team because that team is likely to win (get ahead, have an easier life–or so you think). Nobody is begging to be picked to the second graders’ team because their aim sucks and they always lose.
Maybe that wasn’t a good example. The bottom line is that subconsciously, our inate will to survive often causes us to make subconscious moves to align ourselves with what we percieve as the winning team–if the opportunity exists.
So I guess we need to work on changing the perception then, b/c it clear if only by VSB.com that there are a pleathora of intelligent Blacks out there who don’t fit into such negative stereotypes.
I don’t think selective listening is so much a problem as condtioning. I can’t listen if I can’t hear you. Or, I should say, if I can’t understand and interpret what you are saying. But how can a young Black man understand the deep-rooted pain of a young Black girl, if he can’t understand, verbalize and address the root of his own pain?
As far as the music, which has come up so why not mention it, while we can’t make music a complete scapegoat, we have to acknowlegde that it does season the pot of Black anhilation. What sort of man will the boy who listens to “Bust It Baby” and “Yaah Bitch Yahh” become? Or, worse, the boy who’s MOTHER listens to this music? Even the “Talented Tenth” among us, who go to college and ‘become somebody’ are suceptble. How many times have I heard a college-educated man casually refer to a group of women as ‘bitches’ and ‘hoes’? Or get himself in trouble trying to have ‘hood status’ or ‘street cred’? Or heard an educated sister sound as hoodrattish as Foxy or Kim in 97 when describing what they want in a man? I don’t think people want to admit how deeply entrenched in ‘the Hip-Hop culture’ we are, and they shouldn’t want to because it is embarassing.
Yeah this is why I passed on bringing Lil Wayne into my house. I did, however, download Gavin Degraw’s In Love With A Girl. Do non-Blacks publish songs that talk negatively about their women?? I’m tryna think. But off the top of my head, I can’t think of one.
I can’t say I’ve ever heard any non-black artist be so DEGRADTORY with their lyrics. The closest might be rock musicians…but even they are more tongue in cheek with it.
“Do non-Blacks publish songs that talk negatively about their women?? I’m tryna think. But off the top of my head, I can’t think of one.”
i remember some historian on 60 minutes saying that we were the only culture in the history of world that created such aggresively negative music about ourselves.
It’s that self-hate thing…we claim that we’re taking the negativity society labels us with, and controlling it by spewing the ignorance ourselves, when really we are just perpetuating an endless cycle of self-hate.
It’s all really sad in the grand scheme of things, but we are a culture of ryhtmn and beats, so in most cases we diminish the message in admiration of the sound.
Nice points here, Teacia.
“we claim that we’re taking the negativity society labels us with, and controlling it by spewing the ignorance ourselves, when really we are just perpetuating an endless cycle of self-hate.”
TYPE THAT ISH GIRL!!!
GREAT POINTS, LUV!
“It’s all really sad in the grand scheme of things, but we are a culture of ryhtmn and beats, so in most cases we diminish the message in admiration of the sound.”
Guilty as charged.
I don’t support a lot of the negative music by purchasing it, but the radio gets me hooked with the beats and the clean version and then I’m surprised and horrified when I hear the original.
@Hostess–I bought that CD and I love it! I’ve found that when I listen to rap these days they make me question my race in ways I don’t like to address. When I listen to pop or rock I can focus on lyrics about love and making moves in life.
Umm. . . I listen to a several hispanic artists in spanish. . .so I can answer that with a yes. There are also some . . .uh. . I’m blanking out on the best word to describe the Russian type languages. . . but yeah, music by groups from that area which is not necessarily positive towards women.
Though it could be that they’re in some way mimicking what they see in American hip-hop. Despite the dislike we get around the world, our culture tends to emigrate pretty well.
“how can a young Black man understand the deep-rooted pain of a young Black girl, if he can’t understand, verbalize and address the root of his own pain?”
Sister Toldja…you’ve summed it up nicely.
I agree with Sister Toldja on this. I was trying to point out some of this yesterday, that namely a lot of black men and women are on totally different wavelengths on this issue in such a manner that what black women are going through won’t be understood because the men don’t see a reason for it.
hip-hop culture is pop culture. it has invaded the general culture at large all the good and unfortunately the bad too but hey “i just wanna do hoodrat stuff with my friends.”
But its not as damning in its effect on non-Blacks as it is on us, especially our youth.
I have many comments.
1 – Our music and culture have been commodified and branded as an export to the world. I am embarassed that 50 Cent & co. have become the representatives for Black masculinity around the world, and further, that the sisters featured in their videos are what people see when they look at me. Yes, we all have choices. Yes, those sisters auditioned (sadly) for their roles, but at what point to we change the hands of choice by demanding more for ourselves? The white man is a smart man because he has taken something of our own creation, our own identity, and our own souls and has manipulated it to serve as his main assault weapon against us.
2 – I am really tired of women of other races asking us why we’re uncomfortable with them dating out men, as if they need permission to do so. Clearly, we are not in the equation when you decide to fuck ‘em, so why do you give a shit that it doesn’t sit well with us? It’s not at though these women are in any type of solidarity with our struggle, so do what you want ’cause you’re fucking going to anyway.
2b. – I am deeply disturbed that the whoever the brothas are that have disclosed to Jess about female distaste for IR dating are really telling family business, and then making this girl feel enabled to ask questions about things that really have nothing to do with you. I feel like black people have become the such a point of inquiry for everybody else. Do we ask Asian families why their parents hate that their children date non-Asians (with the exceptions of their daughters dating white boys…which seems to say much to me about Asian American mentality)? Fuck no. Why? (A) Black people have other shit to worry about and (B) it’s none of our business. So stop asking what goes on in our homes, because you don’t give a fuck what’s going on in our communities.
3 – Integration debates kill me. Integration did nothing but further deplete the resources of the African American community, and allow others to come in and leech off it. Until black people realize the power he has as the nation’s largest consumer group, we’re fucked.
Let the church say Amen!
Aaaaaamen!
@MAYA: :::::STANDING OVATION:::::
yay, you labeled stuff
1. I agree with you on this.
2. When you get the stank eye enough, you’ll start to question. Especially if it’s from girls who are friends of the man or among a set of girl where you thought you could ask such a question and get an honest reply (VSB may no longer be such a place) that didn’t make you feel like shit.
2b. Umm. . .Perhaps you don’t, but I do. Especially if I’m looking at a LTR with one and the family is having problems with me. I’m not sure where this idea that one culture cannot question another comes from but I’m totally against that.
3. Again, I disagree. What resources? If you systematically force black people to live in the worst parts of town, pay them less for the same work, charge them more for the same services, make it much harder for them to get the same mortgages, all but make it legal to refuse to sell them property that they can buy outright, just what resources did the black community have?
Integration did for us what free market capitalism does for the entire country. It provides a medium where everyone can potentially achieve great things. It also provides a medium where the ruthless can take advantage of the inexperienced.
If the black community somehow wants to secure it’s resources, it needs to work at educating people so that they don’t get exploited.
The other day, I listened to a discussion between Senators Joe Biden and Lindsey Graham regarding opening up offshore drilling in SC. Graham made this statement – “some of my poorest constituents drive the most fuel inefficient vehicles”. Biden didn’t pick up on this, but as soon as I heard it, I wanted to shout at the man, “then tell your stupid poorest constituents to sell off their inefficient vehicles and buy fuel efficient ones. In our market, the most fuel efficient vehicles tend to be the cheapest ones”.
I don’t feel sorry for people who KNOWINGLY make stupid decisions. When you go and buy an Escalade and trick out the wheels and have seat monitors and tvs that are always on even though you’re the only person ever in the car and you pay hundreds of dollars a month for gas because you only get 10mpg and you’re about to have you house (and car) repossessed because you are barely making the monthly payments, instead of buying a vehicle you can afford, you just made a stupid decision. You just allowed someone else to take advantage of you. Some guy somewhere is laughing, raking in the dough because somehow people can’t get it through their skulls that you should live within your means.
When Graham said “poorest constituents driving the most fuel inefficient vehicles”, I immediately got an image of exactly who he was talking about. Yeah, some of them are white but a lot are not.
If people were doing things right (financially) and still getting screwed over, I might feel differently. However, the amount that blacks as a people get screwed over financially due to race is just icing on the cake. The rest of the cake is stuff that we do to ourselves.
kamakula spews: “If people were doing things right (financially) and still getting screwed over, I might feel differently. However, the amount that blacks as a people get screwed over financially due to race is just icing on the cake. The rest of the cake is stuff that we do to ourselves.”
right. you’re right. but just like smoking you do it or bred to do it long enough and it’s hard to break the cycle. you can see it would be better for you and you’re armed with all the facts and you still make the wrong decisions. this is not happening by happenstance. millions of man hours and money have been spent to train monkeys to act like this and even more to maintain this poor judgement and still the primary responsibility to break these yokes are OURS!
our new mayor speaks about this all the time. i’m in a primarily black city. he starts out by saying: (apologetically speaking tone) “if i say something today that upsets you i just want you to know, i dont give a ****. LOL! i love this dude.
anyways:
“He who is taught to live upon little owes more to his father’s wisdom than he who has a great deal left him does to his father’s care.” William Penn
[quote]but just like smoking you do it or bred to do it long enough and it’s hard to break the cycle. you can see it would be better for you and you’re armed with all the facts and you still make the wrong decisions. this is not happening by happenstance. millions of man hours and money have been spent to train monkeys to act like this and even more to maintain this poor judgment and still the primary responsibility to break these yokes are OURS![/quote]
Preceding the convo about people and bad decisions was one about Dodge. Namely if we could figure out how exactly Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge was financing their ridiculous $3gas for 3 years deal.
My guess – a partnership between the automakers, oil companies, and possibly banks who were conned into loaning money for such an ill conceived deal. Costs of fossil fuels are never going down. Oil companies can afford to do this because in 3 years you’d still be driving a gas guzzling vehicle. And in 3 years, suddenly you’d be paying twice the cost of gas. And you won’t have a choice because you’d still be stuck making the payments on the car. I’d said something like, the oil companies have a vested interest in keeping us addicted and my buddy was like “you think?”. We also ended up talking about tobacco companies too – but my takeaway in all this was that if we wanted to break into the business, we have to simultaneously educate the consumers at the same time that we’re delivering innovation. Otherwise, the entrenched interests will just wash us away.
well put!! well put!!
don’t congratulate her b/c she doesn’t know that the fuck she’s talking about.
@ kamakula
I am not saying that cultures can’t question each other in the least bit; having gone to a Quaker school, I believe very much in the principle of dialogue and debate. HOWEVER – “What can Brown do for you?” I’m not going to ask white folk, or Asians or whoever else about how they date, how they feel about dating, etc. because I feel like it’s a group-inclusive thing. I say that to say, why does someone who is not a Black woman or man need to know how sisters feel about that? I just don’t understand its utility in terms of improving race relations in this country.
Further, though the resources were limited, and in that sense I agree with your point, however, the United States education system neglects to enlighten people that today’s black middle class was built in the depths of segregation. Because we as a people did not have access to the same resources as whites – banks, hospitals, etc. – black people MADE THEIR OWN! Trace the history of the black elite in any major city – Chicago, NY, Philadelphia (big ups!) – and you will see that communities were building and thriving in the very spirit of market capitlism you reference. It forced us to operate within the community. Not EVERY black person was impoverished, and I believe that integration has made our community far less entrepreneurial and independently minded.
[quote]why does someone who is not a Black woman or man need to know how sisters feel about that?[/quote]
A non-black person who wants to/plans on/is dating a black person is likely one who is interested in that information.
Then again, they could be like me and are interested in knowing things for the sake of knowing things and not necessarily about how it may impact their lives.
Wanting to know for the sake of knowing equates to noseyness, and I can assure you that any non-black woman who is dating a black man will get a full explanation as to why no one approves during the tenure of their relationship.
you know i hate BLATANT stupidity, regular stupidity i can deal with…but blantant ignorance unnerves me.
1. we’re obviously all on the same page.
2. you know why you’re getting the stank eye, no need to question it. my brother and cousins know that if/when ever they bring an “other” around me that i’m not going to embrace it with open arms…sorry chic…and NO i don’t have to explain that shit to you b/c you ALREADY know what the deal is. VSB is going to give it to you raw, so if you got a weak stomach i suggest you not ask to be fed.
3. i too was privy to this conversation on CNN(shout out to Joe Biden) and when that statement was mentioned it’s amazing how i didn’t get the same image. and you know why, b/c i actually know a little something about reality, i’ve been to South Carolina and the constituents he was referring to were WHITE people(gtfoh, white people…wow) and low income blacks who didn’t indulge in such fuckery. they have older cars, cadillacs, chevy trucks and they live in rural areas(since the S.C. has like only 2 cities), hence having to drive 30+ miles to work. IF you knew ANYTHING about black people you would know that we aren’t driving that far to any man’s workplace…we will not take a job unless it’s in a 10 mile radius. you would know that if you didn’t choose blatant ignorance as your friend. Joe Biden didn’t respond to that statement b/c it was irrelevant to conserving fuel and finding other alternatives to fuel dependency…which by the way was what the conversation was actually about.
it’s amazing the stereotype you already have etched in your brain and you wonder why we look at your ignant ass sideways…is it because you THINK you know us, when you don’t know a damn thing about us…other than what society has programmed you to believe about the black community. and frankly we’d rather let you revel in your ignorance than to entertain the notion that may actually be able to comprehend this shit…so no you don’t have to right to question us about our shit, go get your own.
2. You know you’re getting the stank eye because x girl doesn’t like that you’re not the same race as the guy you’re dating. However, that does not answer why? The people who ask why are those that care about the ones they are dating and want to make an attempt to fit in with the person’s friends and family. Things like that are kinda important for forging successful relationships.
3. Perhaps the people who jumped to my mind don’t live in SC since I’ve not lived there. However, it’s not too hard for me to think of people who fit what I thought in a city I grew up in – Washington DC.
The statement was not irrelevant. Graham was attempting to make the best argument for switching from his 2005 position on the issue – that his constituents are suffering. My response is your constituents have made bad decisions in certain aspects of their lives. If they fixed that, they’d also simultaneously fix some of their energy dependency problems which removes the wind out of the sails of “my poor constituency”.
I suppose as a Senator, you can’t win points for criticizing people, so perhaps the politic thing to do would be to ignore that statement. Me not being a Senator, I have no such limitations.
Still this is something that is more common among those of our generation, and not necessarily the older set. So, perhaps I should have qualified my statement. I drive about 10 miles round trip to school. That’s roughly 240 miles a month. If we add in going shopping, visiting friends, and other things that happen each month, that totals to about 350 miles a month – about a full tank for me at about 25mpg. A full tank (14gal * $4.00) costs $56. Someone whose vehicle gets less than half my fuel economy but drives the same amount will pay at least $100 a month for gas. You can do the math yourself, my numbers aren’t that far off and they certainly don’t require you to live that far from anything. Perhaps hundreds is an exaggeration, but still, $100/mo adds up.
I’m not sure how I don’t have a right to question people. Perhaps my example is an extreme case but I think most of them will be the same way. The vast majority of people in this country are in the middle, struggling roughly the same. Its those at the outer extremes who are hemorrhaging resources. Or rather, when you’re hemorrhaging resources, you either end up at one of the extremes or you started at the other end. Either way, if we’re going to talk about securing resources, those are the people that we must focus on because they’re the ones with the most to lose (in two senses of the word).
Maybe this is just me, and my personality…but I have never tried to fit in where I’m not wanted. For instance, if I tried (for whatever reason) to date a white boy, and his momma didn’t like me and gave me hassle cause I’m black. I’d step. Similarly, if I dated a Negro whose momma didn’t like me and gave me hassle (which has happened) I’d step. Why? Because I’m not going to sit and slice and dice the many multitudes of reasons why she didn’t like my ass. She just doesn’t. That’s like being in high school and trying to make someone your friend. Why do people do this? And here again is another reason why I align myself with Bro. Malcolm.
I am a field Negro.
I see.
But, why do people do this? Hmm. I’m interested in a person, we chat, they’re interested too, we hang out, turns out we like each other, I meet their friends. . .and they don’t want me around.
Your response is to walk away. My response is to find out what it is that they don’t like. Perhaps I can change that.
If its not that important to me, then yeah, I may walk away from a situation. However, sometimes, that is not the case.
I don’t necessarily see anything wrong with either viewpoint. I have a preference for one, but I don’t think the other is wrong.
So, if one of my friends suddenly has a new person hanging around and for whatever reason I (and the others in our social group) don’t like them, I can understand if they make an attempt to find out why. This situation comes up a lot, perhaps not in the quite one race vs another, but a new person at work attempting to befriend an existing group, in school, etc.
There are some people from HS who when we first started would have nothing to do with me. They didn’t know me or understand who I was and where I was coming from. However, that changed. My memories of HS would definitely be quite different if I decided to never again attempt to associate with people who rebuffed me the first few times around.
“I see.”
so i guess this is just a prediposed response.
i’m going to continue to keep it simple for you. it may not be that we don’t like you, it’s what you stand for. it’s the symbol of what dating you means…which is somewhere along the way we failed with him. you may actually be a great person but WE have no interest in finding out under the circumstances because we’d rather you not be there in the first place. there is nothing you can do, there is nothing to understand. it’s pretty cut and dry.
you can call it racism, i call it self-preservation.
I guess I gotta give it to you kindergarten style as well…we don’t want for you to forge a successful relationship…we don’t want you with him, so ask away, but you will be met with opposition at every turn. we give you the side-eye for a very simple reason…because you’re not one of us. it’s as simple as that sweetie…but go ahead forge away.
and as far as the domestic drilling goes, it’s a gimmick…his “constituents” won’t see an ounce of relief for nearly 7 years…not the mention the harm to the environment…yeah yeah they say it will send a signal to speculators and the prices will drop but it won’t happen…gas isn’t getting any cheaper. we need alternative to fuel, we need to be come independent of fuel…Senator Biden didn’t adress his comments because he’s heard the rhethoric for the past month. It hasn’t changed, McCain, Bush and my ignant governor Charlie Christ have all been singing the same song.
I would hate for you to believe that low income blacks are the only ones suffering or those who chose to live outside of their means…when clearly blacks weren’t the ones buying million dollar homes in Florida, California and NY…nope those were white people. The middle class whites are the ones losing their homes, and cars, not having money for food…
*sigh*…why am i even entertaining this…nuff said.
[quote]I would hate for you to believe that low income blacks are the only ones suffering or those who chose to live outside of their means…[/quote]
You must have missed part of my post where I mentioned that it’s not just black people making these bad decisions. However, it seems that you are taking umbrage with my focus on black people. Perhaps you didn’t realize that I was responding to a previous comment where Maya said:
[quote]
3 – Integration debates kill me. Integration did nothing but further deplete the resources of the African American community, and allow others to come in and leech off it. Until black people realize the power he has as the nation’s largest consumer group, we’re fucked.[/quote]
i completely understood the context of your response but i chose to focus on what you chose to focus on, i.e. your tricked out Expedition rant, since you chose to highlight it the most.
I see.
I actually chose the Escalade because at the time I started college, it was the vehicle of choice to bankrupt a lot of my peers.
I suppose Expeditions or just about any SUV suffers from that problem though.
and why don’t you want her with him if he doesn’t want to be with you?? why can’t she want to understand someone’s culture when it is different from hers??
she can WANT to understand it all she wants, i think that the more we know about each others cultures the more we can respect one another and co-exist peacefully. but what she should not do is question why we don’t want her around, especially when it’s not clear cut.
and the question in my opinion is why doesn’t he want me/us in the first place.
kas i’m very surprised with your responses to this post, are you a closet interracial dater…because last i remember you were actually against it.
@ Teacia
for the record, never have i been against it!! to each there own!! when it comes to love, i will never stand in the way of it no matter what!! i can’t fault someone for finding love in someone outside of their own race when they get hurt time and time again by someone who is supposed to be their “brotha” or “sista” and down for the so-called “cause”!! aren’t u the one who saw some type of interest in a former house mate of yours that was a little more pale than myself?? as for my german friends, my white friends, my persian friends, my italian friends, my columbian friends, that is all we are!! friends!! but if the day comes where we find ourselves attracted to each other as more than friends and want to explore that, why would i deny myself the pleasure or happiness that could be, just to prove to another black chick walking by who doesn’t even know me nor would she give me the time of day if asked, that i am pro-black enough to stand by a black woman who doesn’t give a shit about me rather than enjoy the happiness and what have you from the one who is really into me?? truthfully, i can ignore the stares which brings me back to my original question, which the champ reposted, that has never been answered:
“we talk about the lack of quality people (male or female) out there to fall in love with when most of the time, if they don’t fit into this cookie cutter mold (the car, the job, the salary, the height, the shoe/dress size, etc.) they are overlooked without a second glance!!! however, when someone else (of a different race, nationality, etc.) pays attention to them, mostly because they can look past the issues that you had with the person, you get up in arms over it when, again, you didn’t want them in the first place??”
the reason that he may not want you is something i can’t say!! again, to each his own!! i can say that not everyone is meant for everyone…someone’s dime might be someone else’s penny, while someone’s nickel may be someone’s dollar!! my reasons for not liking someone are my reasons and mine alone, but my cons might be “mike’s” pros and vice versa!! its all in doing you and making you happy, while i have to do me and make me happy!! if somewhere down the line our paths cross and we can do us, then that is even better!! but i won’t knock you for finding what you so desperately need because it comes in a package that is totally different than me!!! and i won’t live my life trying to please everyone else except for myself when it comes to my private and personal life!! i can ignore the looks because that is all that they are!! the chicks who didn’t want me then because i wasn’t on “their level” only want me now because i’m happy and unattainable, while they are still alone and looking for the brotha who is supposed to be on their level!! and if you didn’t want to be with me then and seemed very sincere in not trying to make me think i was gaining any progress in our initial meeting, why would i think you were sincere when you tell me that i shouldn’t be with that white devil because only a sista like yourself knows how to treat me like the king i am?? within the past 3 months, i didn’t grow an extra 6 inches, i didn’t upgrade my accord to a benz, and i didn’t start making an extra $100k a year!! so what gives now?? just because i’m with someone who doesn’t look like you??
Looking forward to the new post!! Leaving this one alone!!! good night!! gotta go get my drink on!!
That’s right Maya, make it rain on dem hoes.
I have nothing else to add LOL.
You know reading these entries the last two days, I really feel sad for a lot of Black people. I say Black meaning people of the African diaspora everywhere. I know the Champ and Panama try to keep it light in here, but this has been revealing.
why do u feel sad Dorian??
I concur…
This is the guts.
Skimming over some of the responses was even guttier.
I personally have found when I talk to alot of people who say shit like this. Dumb or Smart and “white breed” as alot of niggas like to say lol.
Usually the problem is that person in particular. Not the rest of the opposite sex and their race in particular lol. Some people dont like confrontational ass people who will give you even a little bit of attitude.
Im not saying all Black girls (or men, because ive heard black girls say the same shit) have attitudes AND are confrontational. Im just saying it takes a special person to put up with a muthafucka being stank to you for an extended period of time. And when your experiences have shown you this common factor that you really dwell on and cant deal with. Shit can be more than what it seem like it should be to that person in particular, is all im saying ( watch somebody still get that shit wrong ).
Niggas might appreciate the “attitude” factor about a Black woman, but none of us like going through the shit when we going through it. It fucking sucks.
i only use this ONE PIECE of a very big (waste of time ) argument because thats what I hear the most. its not really my opinion.
anyway…. i said all that to say… people who say shit like that about their own race, have probably had some kind of super bad experience that has lead them to say that shit. regardless if it was their fault or not.
@ O(dot)…
all this is true…and I fell compelled to throw in that CONFRONTATION is NOT a bad thing…it just gets a bad wrap (like strippers)…the connotation of CONFRONTATION is negative, but if done with tact, grace, and a positive attitude…CONFRONTATION can cut through alot of shullbit and f*ckery!
could it be [and we have all touched on it yesterday and today] that MORE BLACK MEN are less sensitive to interracial dating than BLACK WOMEN because of the circumstances that surround dating. (the stats, more women to men ratio etc.) …and if this is so G Dam, it’s the ONE fucking thing that’s skewed in a BLACK MANS favor IF you can call it that. go figure.
nope, we’re sensitive because you’re not. your insensitivity fuels our insecurities…thus leading to our sensivity…and the cycle continues, that is until it ends…god i pray that it ends.
feel ya pain. more black women have many areas where things are skewed their way vs. black men but i wasn’t speaking so much to why black women are sensitive to interracial dating (i’ve read that for 2 days and lived it in my adult life) but more to why black men may be more oblivious/insensitive to interracial dating.
possible answer YES: because it’s the ONE area that is skewed in a black mans favor. (the dating pool)
ok i got the sensitives and the insensitives twisted.
i think my theory is:
black men are more accepting, tolerant and oblivious to interracial dating versus black women because it is the ONE area that is skewed in favor of the black male. [the dating pool]
genius khan has left the building…
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not that really i watch BET, but did anyone watch Hip-Hop vs. America II/Where did the love go?? did anyone have any thoughts on that??
yeah Champ that video on Single Black Male has been around for quite a few years but it is not only well done but really slaps the stankin ass shit out of an accepted stereotype. heh, heh, heh.
dam those sisters look good in the “film short” though. errr one of them.
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