return of the black man’s hat
*****editors note. the champ so enjoyed wearing the “black man’s hat” yesterday, that he refused to take it off. despite our pleas, he even wore it in the shower, which has now made the hat damp and ripe with mildew. the champ is obviously a strange duck. if you happen to see him today, please assist us in snatching this hat off of his head*****
its not the datable man shortage
or racism
or latent sexism
or big gay al reynolds
or daddy issues
or bust it babies
or even jim jones
no, the biggest problem facing young blacks in regards to dating today has everything to do with our ears, or, more specificially, what we chose to do with them.
we are *paging my best charles barkley impression* terrible, terrible, terrible listeners.
terrible
forget std’s, the paramount relationship health issue in the young black community is the eerily selective abundance of earwax we all seem to possess. it comes and goes, like hiccups and appalachian hookers.
how else can you explain the selective listening we do, evidenced by the fact that not only do we not listen to each other, when we actually do decide to listen, we make the genius decision to listen to the drooling n*gga in the corner wearing the giant dunce cap!!
for instance:
black guy says “i love black women, but haven’t dated one in a while because black women don’t seem to be attracted to the type of brotha i am. apparently i’m lacking in swagger or some shit” and it’s immediately discounted as bitch-n*gga bs that shouldn’t be paid any attention to.
idiot black guy says “black women are too difficult, which is why i can’t f*ck with em anymore. seriously, who wants to spend all that damn time taming a broad?” gimme a mami over a sista any day, even sundays.” and this becomes the gospel from the book of “how black men really feel”
black girl says “i mean sh*t, if our own men don’t love us, who the hell will? how is that supposed to make me feel?” and she’s dismissed while told to woman up and stop living in the 17th century
black girl lost says “these lame ass n*ggas aint doing nothing for me. i need a baller with a ‘09 benz and a d*ck bigger than a toddlers arm. if you don’t fit the criteria, kill yourself” and every other black woman in the country is guilty by association.
i dont know. maybe its easier for us to collectively pay attention to bullsh*t because the important truths are too difficult to bear. maybe we’ve been so conditioned by the music we listen that we’ve become experts of language compartmentalization. maybe we just need to chew more gum. who knows.
i do know though that honestly, if listening were looks, we’d be camilla parker bowles (who should just probably have her name legally changed to “ugly-ass cpb“)…
…and not even the biggest black man’s hat can hide that.
L-boogie said it best:
“and even after all the knowledge and the theory/ i add a muthaf*cker so the ignant n*ggas hear me”
who knew she was referring to all of us.
—the champ
336 comments
bravo, bravo!! i hate to admit it, but we as a race (meaning the human race) don’t listen and are to damn closed minded for our own good!! just last night i had to ask someone if she was only hearing what i said or actually listening to the words that came from my mouth!! and then had to break it down for her to understand what i was talking about!!
many times, we, as a people (not just black, white, etc.), have a true problem when it comes to listening to what people are telling us!! that is where the misunderstandings come from within the relationships that we have with others (bf/gf, employer/employee, racially/religiously different persons, etc.)!! we tune out people when they aren’t speaking our language, our dialect, or whatever we don’t want to hear, remaining ignorant to our surroundings and situations!! when people aren’t open to the ideas and opinions of others, it creates more tensions and rifts between the people involved!! i, myself, have been found guilty of this just as most people on this earth are!! but what makes me different from the others is that i listen, although it may not change my view, and when i listen, i understand and comprehend what the other person is saying, instead of just hearing the different sounds that come out of the other person’s mouth!! and with knowing that, i had to make changes to my speech, seeing that if i tune out when someone is talking in a manner that will make me tune out, someone else will tune out if i speak in a manner that they don’t too much care for!! its a vicious cycle and the cause of many misunderstandings between the classes, sexes, races, cultures, religious beliefs, etc.!!!!
[Reply]
aja {June 25th, 2008 at 2:24 am}
*chest bumps don* lol
You and Mr. Champ are so right on all of those points. People do not take the time to listen constructively. They listen like its a buffet table..take bits n pieces n leave the rest. Then they dont think before they speak. Just tend to say the first thing that pops out.
“An open mind leaves a chance for someone to drop a worthwhile thought in it”
People will learn so much more about things if they would just shut up n listen..lol
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The Champ {June 25th, 2008 at 9:38 am}
“*chest bumps don* lol”
no chest bump for me? i feel slighted
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GOODENess {June 25th, 2008 at 9:54 am}
“and even after all the knowledge and the theory/ i add a muthaf*cker so the ignant n*ggas hear me”
@ CHAMP…someone just got himself another treat w/ that there…(true hip hop-er in the bldg!) so what will it be…Mango juice under Polaris…or a banana-granate smoothie?
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The Champ {June 25th, 2008 at 11:35 am}
“@ CHAMP…someone just got himself another treat w/ that there…(true hip hop-er in the bldg!) so what will it be…Mango juice under Polaris…or a banana-granate smoothie?”
how about just a cookies and cream shake today? gotta keep it simple, i have a game later on tonight
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GOODENess {June 25th, 2008 at 11:50 am}
@ champ…man? how you gonna pick something that’s actually yummy? lol… (puts hand on your forehead) are you feeling ok? what kind of game? I know I am nosy as hell…oh well…indulge me…
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The Champ {June 25th, 2008 at 3:05 pm}
“what kind of game?”
basketball. i’m hoping it doesnt rain
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aliaye {June 26th, 2008 at 4:18 am}
*butt slaps da Champ* lol
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what is a bust it babies? any relation to muppet babies?
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don giovanni {June 25th, 2008 at 1:48 am}
me and my girl have been trying to figure that one out since the song came out!!! but i guess you have to “listen” to the song to find out and formulate your own conclusion as to what it is!!
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Liz {June 25th, 2008 at 2:03 am}
dag, there’s a SONG? i am so out of touch.
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don giovanni {June 25th, 2008 at 2:55 am}
yeah….(deep sigh)….there is a song out there…..actually i believe there are two….original and pt.2, the remix ft ne-yo (another deep sigh)….
**not excited about the “bust it baby” songs so there will be no exclamations used.**
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Teacia {June 25th, 2008 at 11:23 am}
HATER!! now you wanna drop the exclamation points…lol. i’m not a fan of the ne-yo version but i loves me the original.
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Panama Jackson {June 25th, 2008 at 10:16 am}
You’re joking right?!
It’s not just a song. It’s a movement. I mean, it’s “bust it babies”. Not just any ole babies. But “bust it”. And it’s not just any old rapper like Soulja Boy or Ice-T.
It’s mothertrucking Plies - like the 3rd greatest rapper of all time behind Yung Berg and South Park Mexican!
Is there a song…sheesh…
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Cheryl {June 25th, 2008 at 10:53 am}
How dare you speak ill of Ice-T.
He was on Celebrity Family Feud last night. I only watched it because he was on there. He lost - but he was still very funny.
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The Champ {June 25th, 2008 at 11:36 am}
‘How dare you speak ill of Ice-T”
oh yes…how can one forget cheryl’s infamous ice-t crush?
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Cheryl {June 25th, 2008 at 11:38 am}
21 years later … I still crush. And crush hard.
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genius khan {June 25th, 2008 at 11:11 am}
you laughing but young berg got game. i like last yrs. album. it’s on some big boy shit. soulja boy on some lil boy shit. i mean we all love real “booty meat” but dam, did we really need the song?
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Tay {June 25th, 2008 at 11:46 am}
booty meat?
I hate that song with a passion.
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JBoogie {June 25th, 2008 at 11:20 am}
Random dropping on SPM…PJ, you are officially my dude for life now LOL!
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Teacia {June 25th, 2008 at 11:22 am}
Ok, he is a fool…lol!
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Panama Jackson {June 25th, 2008 at 11:27 am}
Word.Life.
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GOODENess {June 25th, 2008 at 1:25 pm}
SouthPark Mexican is cool as hell…HTOWN STAND UP!!!!
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2Degreez {June 25th, 2008 at 9:43 am}
I’ve been subjected to that song. I hate it. I figured the term “bust it baby” was self-explanatory which is why I hate it.
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The Queen {June 25th, 2008 at 11:39 am}
I agree with every word you just wrote.
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The Champ {June 25th, 2008 at 9:39 am}
lol…honestly, i have no idea. i’ve seen people talk about it, and i heard the song for the first time last weekend.
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Cheryl {June 25th, 2008 at 9:53 am}
your comment makes me ashamed to say I have it as a ringtone on my phone.
effit I’m not ashamed. its for a part in the song that makes my girl and I laugh.
yes I have ringtones (and calltones) and age 34.
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GOODENess {June 25th, 2008 at 9:58 am}
(head cocked, looking at you from the corner of my eye!) Cheryl…you can have ringtones and call tones at age 34..but I do believe that the lunacy that can “appreciate” the bust-it-baby-ness has an expiration date…I think it’s only for those born AFTER cassette tape died…you know…the kids that are YOUNGER than Yo MTV Raps! come on now!
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Cheryl {June 25th, 2008 at 10:07 am}
I was told after 30 you can’t have hip-hop ringtones or any calltones. But I don’t really care.
HOWEVER … the bustit baby song is just the specific ringtone for my bestest friend Angela.
my standard ringtone is Hi Hater by Maino who I am gonna meet and marry this week. Yay me!
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GOODENess {June 25th, 2008 at 10:26 am}
well if it’s a joke…I will give you the play cousin discount…lol…my bff’s ringtone is “looking boy” but that is nowhere near the babies that bust it…
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Cheryl {June 25th, 2008 at 10:51 am}
lol my sons ringtone (on my phone) is lookin boy.
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Panama Jackson {June 25th, 2008 at 10:18 am}
You know, as much as I’d like to admonish the use of this song as a ringtone, it’s actually a perfect ringtone song.
It’s got a good beat, it samples Janet Jackson, and Ne-Yo’s hook is actually good. In fact, if we were able to mute Plies on the song and ship it to, say, JT Money and change the name to, say, “Suck It Baby”, it might be the 2nd best song ever in hip-hop history, behind only Puffy’s “I Need A Girl”. Part 2 of course.
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Cheryl {June 25th, 2008 at 10:57 am}
yeah but see you openly like RayJ. Imma need someone else to come to my defense on this matter.
Thanks tho.
i kid!!!
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Panama Jackson {June 25th, 2008 at 11:04 am}
Though it is true that I like Ray J’s music (some of it) this proves another point. Most of y’all ain’t listening strictly because its Ray J. Biased listening.
It hurts.
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Cheryl {June 25th, 2008 at 11:07 am}
If it makes you feel any better (although the confession doesn’t make ME feel any better)
I like the song Sexy Can I and that other hit he had.
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Teacia {June 25th, 2008 at 11:25 am}
I’m also a fan of Ray J…he’s just the cutest little man out there.
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Sister Toldja {June 25th, 2008 at 11:19 am}
Did you all know about the “Bust It Baby” reality show:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eg_l5sSmgCY&feature=related
WARNING- this clip sets Black women back 400 years. Everyone on this video down from Plies to the best boy and key grip should be taken to a vacant lot and shot.
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genius khan {June 25th, 2008 at 11:27 am}
this shit can’t be serious! dammit flav! i bet you wish Plies only dated women outside his race on this one huh Toldya? this plies fault, the people that participate, the people that consume and the money grubbing fux that profit from it. can’t front, ima be watching the shit mouf agape like watching the towers fall. can’t stand it, can’t believe it, it hurts but can’t turn away.
you now this reality b.s. is not exclusive to black folks and didn’t start with just the exploitation and self exploitation of black folks. if it didn’t get the ratings i wouldn’t stay on.
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genius khan {June 25th, 2008 at 11:34 am}
oh yeah and them mf’s in craft services responsible too.
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Teacia {June 25th, 2008 at 11:34 am}
well i have to hate the stereotypes perpetuated in this t.v. show but they seem to be only looking for gutter chics..when in reality Plies isn’t even rapping about a gutter chic. It looks like they held auditions at the local flea markets…but what’s sad about it is that there are chics like that walking around Florida everywhere you go.
Oh well I will be tuned in with my popcorn, watching these chics disrespect themselves for a moment of fame.
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The Queen {June 25th, 2008 at 11:42 am}
Yeah, I saw the preview for this…yet another reason why I hate the song. The whole song/movement is a hot azz mess.
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Tay {June 25th, 2008 at 11:49 am}
Yes, I saw the preview as well.
Sad thing was… these women weren’t teenagers where you can say they are just young and dumb. They were grown azz women in their late 20’s and 30’s.
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AkShone {June 25th, 2008 at 12:01 pm}
…wow…just…wow.
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Sister Toldja {June 25th, 2008 at 12:20 pm}
LOL. I have a long list of Black men who I would be more than glad to see with only White women. But I don’t hate White women enough to do that to them! Nobody should be fucking Plies. No one.
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Miss Patterson {June 25th, 2008 at 12:24 pm}
that video made me cry…
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GOODENess {June 25th, 2008 at 1:27 pm}
damn…I got nothing…I’m going to go home and hug my son…
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Intelectual Hedonist {June 25th, 2008 at 2:03 pm}
You know I refuse to watch reality television on this principle alone, if it is going to take away brain cells or not add to my knowledge base or implant unnecessary crap I refuse to watch it, which is why I never got into Flava of Love and New York and several others. I don’t care that I am out of the loop, watching it only encourages it, like when you laugh at your 2 year old that yelled out a curse word for the first time. It’s not so cute when he does it in front of your pastor, or some folks you tryin’ not to be embarrassed in front of. The whole reality tv movement set back poor folk (black, white, yellow, and brown) hundreds of years. It’s a damn shame.
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Teacia {June 25th, 2008 at 11:21 am}
Ok so seriously I love the song…the original version that is. Plies remade it with Ne-yo to soften it up a bit but the original version is gutter and straight to the point…and I have to be honest it’s kind of how we do it down here in Flawda!
“…taste like sugar, smell like water.”
Lol…how you not love a song with that verse in it…lol. Ok so i’m making it my profile song again! Liz if you haven’t heard it, click on my name…he breaks it down in the original version.
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The Champ {June 25th, 2008 at 11:41 am}
“It looks like they held auditions at the local flea markets”
you know whats funny? in the burgh, you’ll typically find the bangingest chicks at shit like flea markets and goodwills. the more i learn, the more i realize there’s nowhere else like pittsburgh. this should be an entry topic all by itself
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GOODENess {June 25th, 2008 at 11:56 am}
“you’ll typically find the bangingest chicks at shit like flea markets and goodwills.”
not just in the burg, son…the mall is for amateurs…you will find sisters with personal style that own their look from “beauty to thrift shops” because the trends don’t make theis fashion choices for them…this autonomy only adds to theis BANGINGEST-ness… (you’ve got mail about the BANGINEST beaters…please believe)
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Miss Patterson {June 25th, 2008 at 2:17 pm}
“the more i learn, the more i realize there’s nowhere else like pittsburgh.”
maybe you should start your own move to Pittsburgh campaign. then post it on youtube. lol.
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genius khan {June 25th, 2008 at 11:57 am}
busss-it behhh-beh.
heh, heh, heh….
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Teacia {June 25th, 2008 at 12:19 pm}
i love the slow whisper…i’m starting to think that i’m just genuinely amused by the damn song.
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don giovanni {June 25th, 2008 at 1:32 pm}
if plies ain’t rapping about a gutta chick, what is he rapping about?? explain what a “bust it baby” is!!
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Teacia {June 25th, 2008 at 2:22 pm}
listen to the song…it’s not what he’s rapping about.
the title is derogatory but the song is not, it’s actually what most men wish they have or do have. under his description in the original version even some wives could be classified as such.
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Sister Toldja {June 26th, 2008 at 12:13 am}
But that show wasn’t an accident. Clearly, he has a taste for gutter women….or at least enjoys helping them exploit themselves. Fuck him and his shitty song. He won’t be around next summer.
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Liz {June 25th, 2008 at 4:31 pm}
LOL i heard it today……no comment!
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yeh, you make a very strong point here Champ. I am occasionally guilty of not only ‘language compartmentalization’, but generalizing the negativity of one fool to reflect an entire group or in this case gender. I’ve learned to snap out of it quicker as I get older, but I see that the real problem with all of this bad listening is that it poisons us, taints us and literally prevents us from meeting folks out there that actually hold the same principles as we do. I don’t mean to sound all Eckhart Tolle on your a$$ but I think we attract negativity the same way we do positive energy. If you walk around this earth feeling like no one will ever love you/want you/date you etc…the chances are higher that you will give off this vibe subconciously and attract only the dudes with the dunce caps in the corner.
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don giovanni {June 25th, 2008 at 2:50 am}
@ miss p……….i can’t agree with you more!!!!!!
*standing ovation*
just as intelligence attracts intelligence, ignorance attracts ignorance!! people tend to surround themselves with those who share their opinions and outlooks in life and if it is a negative outlook, that is who they identify and surround themselves with!! if it is a positive outlook, thats who they surround themselves with and identify with!! the saying is true….birds of a feather tend to flock together!! you don’t see peacocks kicking it with crows!!
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GOODENess {June 25th, 2008 at 10:03 am}
I agree to an extent DG…and I usually nod emphatically at your dissertations…the birds of a feather theory is accurate for like 80% of our total interaction…how else can you account for the knuckle heads (and knuckle-head-ettes) that we (VSB fam) admit to Carl Thomas-ing? granted, the representatives mirrored our POVs but when the masks cracked all HECK-CK+LL broke loose! if you add to that, the risk involved with trying something new in your dating checklist (to broaden your net, so to speak) it indeed becomes a “box of chocolates”… so you do like attracts like, except for when it doesn’t…
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Miss Patterson {June 25th, 2008 at 10:41 am}
“so like attracts like, except for when it doesn’t…”
G, I know exactly what you’re talking about when you refer to that 20% that caught you off guard. A part of me feels like surely we can’t be held responsible for those ’surprises’, but on some level we can. i.e.) have you ever met someone who was too good to be true? appeared to have no pathological behavior whatsoever and the whole time you’re dating them you’re waiting for the other shoe to drop? and when it does you realize you turned a blind eye to all of their ‘issues’? i think even in the 20% who ‘when the masked cracked all heck broke loose’ we realize that we failed to listen/pay attention to all the signs that indicated that they were deep down inside a knucklehead.
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Panama Jackson {June 25th, 2008 at 10:21 am}
Hm…so who do ignorantly educated individuals tend to attract?
I feel so all alone.
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The Champ {June 25th, 2008 at 9:44 am}
“I don’t mean to sound all Eckhart Tolle on your a$$ but I think we attract negativity the same way we do positive energy.”
i dont think i want eckhart tolle anywhere near my ass, thank you.
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GOODENess {June 25th, 2008 at 9:44 am}
@ Miss P…aka PatteeCakes… (high five on the Eckhert Tolle reference)…if you don’t love you, how can someone else? I try to pay close attention to vibes, flags, and context clues to know whether or not I am wasting precious time on a knuckle dragger…but alas, I too have fallen victim to the selectivity in the afore mentioned post…(fist on chin, looking skyward…sigh)
question of the day…so how do we move towards amelioration?
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Miss Patterson {June 25th, 2008 at 10:44 am}
Goodeness, thanks for my new nickname…i think i kinda like ‘PatteCakes’.
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Leila {June 25th, 2008 at 10:55 am}
“we attract negativity the same way we do positive energy. If you walk around this earth feeling like no one will ever love you/want you/date you etc…the chances are higher that you will give off this vibe subconciously”
Yes!!! This is so true and I’m a big believer in the energy you give off is what you receive. It’s all about how you approach life and honestly if you feel good about yourself and have a positive approach, you will receive that. I used to be more negative but changed my vibe in the last few years and it’s really changed my whole outlook on life.
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Tay {June 25th, 2008 at 11:56 am}
“we attract negativity the same way we do positive energy. If you walk around this earth feeling like no one will ever love you/want you/date you etc…the chances are higher that you will give off this vibe subconciously”
I agree wholeheartedly. It’s important to remain positive throughout life even when you aren’t feeling your best. Negative people aren’t fun to be around and start to get annoying pretty quickly.
[Reply]
Wow what the hell did I miss while on the plantation? Haha little joke. All hell broke lose in the last comments section and I missed the fight. Damn!
After reading some of the comments on this board and others and I have to say that it pains me to know that underneath all the intellectual debate, there is so much pain between Black women and Black men. But what rips at my heart strings is that Black women are the ones crying out for respect and loyalty while it appears to me that the Black men are pretty much telling us to get over it.
Now being the LA girl that I am, I’ve been around multiculturalism all my life, but back on the home front I was taught to love being Black and don’t allow society to determine my destiny when it comes to love, marriage, career, finances, etc… With that being said I haven’t beaten myself over the head when it comes to Black men dating White women or “Others” because at the end of the day why the hell would I want to invest my time or energy into someone who didn’t feel that women like me aren’t worthy of their love? The negative stereotypes of Black women are getting old as well. People are not perfect yet Black women are held to an unrealistic standard of perfection and if we do not meet that standard, we’re ghetto trash unworthy of honor, respect, or love. Yet white women and “others” can have sex tapes, act like whores, have disgusting diseases, and still be marriage material. FUCK I’m GETTING PISSED.
In the past my thoughts on interracial dating has been as follows: Folks should be allowed to do whatever they want without criticism. My only beef is with Black men or anyone else who feels the need to bash another group as justification for their choices. On a personal note, I’ve never lost out to a man of my choice over a White girl or “other.” Honestly I think my whole view towards Black men who date outside of their race is indifference. Do you! I don’t despise you but I’m probably not going to invest in you either. Perhaps the day that happens to my whole mentality will change about interracial dating. If a Black man ever turned me down because of his preference for others I might laugh then I will go about my business. I don’t need to reproduce with anyone who has self hate in their genetics.
In defense of Sista Toldja (sorry to bring you up gal but you were under fire yesterday), I may not agree with all of her philosophies but I understand that she is coming from a position of love and respect for Black people. Anyone who puts Blacks above all else is good in my book regardless of how radical their views might be. I respect and appreciate diverse Black views on how to uplift our people even if they may conflict with my own. On another note, I’m going to need all the White, Asian, Latino, and “other” women check themselves. Sucking, fucking, or befriending a Black man doesn’t give you insight to the Black experience. That’s like me claiming to be the expert on all things Asian because I watch anime and eat Sushi three times a week.
[Reply]
don giovanni {June 25th, 2008 at 4:57 am}
why not get over it?? why whine and carry on over someone who is not attracted to you for whatever reason it may be?? if you aren’t the ideal woman for him, whether it be on the foundations that your race, hair color, skin tone, eye color, intellectual aptitude, height, weight, religious beliefs, why can’t you be happy that he found the love he was looking for, instead of taking it as a slap to the face?? why miss out on something beautiful just because the package is something you aren’t used to?? the fact that people look at it as a direct insult to them makes me wonder about their situation!! if you see a man or woman happily in love with someone outside of their own race, why does it make a difference to you?? do you think that you would love him or her better or that they would be happier with you than the person they are with?? this is not an attack on you, but just specific questions to the general public about why do it matter??
you talk about the lack of quality people out there to fall in love with when most of the time, if they don’t fit into this cookie cutter mold (the car, the job, the salary, etc.) they are overlooked without a second glance!!! however, when someone else pays attention to them, mostly because they can look past the issues that you had with the person, and they are of another race, you get up in arms over it when, again, you didn’t want them in the first place?? just because i’m in love, very compatible and truly happy with a woman of another race doesn’t mean that i have no respect or loyalty for a woman of my own race!! but with what many of you are saying is that we have to sacrifice the happiness of self for loyalty to the race!! and if you are talking about possible resentment developing within the relationship, i can guarantee that their will be resentment throughout a relationship built on this foundation!!
now growing up in downtown, s.w. atlanta and college park, the only exposure to a culture other than the “hood” folks i grew up with were the ones i learned about in the media (actually, the one white boy (el)roy in the neighborhood was probably the blackest thing walking…found out about N.W.A. from him) and what i would hear from the ignorant people that surrounded me, yet this didn’t stop me from getting to know other cultures and races for myself!! and even if they did conform to the stereotypes, i knew that those few didn’t represent the whole race!! but if the the shoe fits, might as well make the outfit match!! and by that i am saying that not everyone is meant for my love and what i look for in a woman, my wants and needs from a woman, transcends color and complexion!! i need the support and love, the understanding and nurturing nature, wanting to be with me as much as i want to be with her and be happy about it!! if she is black, white, purple or blue doesn’t make a damn bit of difference!! i’m not going to give up my personal happiness just for appearances or to look as if i’m a real “brotha” because no one or no thing can define me except for me!!
as for me, i have a loyalty to PEOPLE who are about something rather than to a nationality, or ethnicity!! yes, i have high hopes for my race and i hate that some of the stereotypes and labels haven’t been removed, but since there are people who act in accordance to those stereotypes and labels, it would be unfair of me to walk around with blinders on saying that these are totally unfounded lies set up by the man trying to keep us down!! i know ghetto a$$ women of all color!! i know trashy sluts of all races and nationality!! and these women get the same treatment from me, no matter what!! you won’t find me getting with brittany spears or paris hilton just like you won’t find me getting with new york of flava of love fame!! i don’t want what they have to offer and color has nothing to do with it!! if we were the last 4 people on earth, you can best believe that i’m not going to pick out new york over the rest just because she is black!! i’d rather kill myself than be with any of them!!
[Reply]
Raqi {June 25th, 2008 at 8:13 am}
“i have a loyalty to PEOPLE who are about something rather than to a nationality, or ethnicity!!”
Don
I started telling my oldest son about 5-6 years ago that the one thing this entire world can see is that you are a Black. Man. Now was else you got? Beyond that what else do you plan to do to be identified and recognized in this world?
My desire is to dissuade him from the “I am black man, hear me bytch and moan” much treaded way in life. Hopefully he will learn that as a man he has to be accountable for the path he chooses in life so make the best of it.
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GOODENess {June 25th, 2008 at 10:05 am}
I give this knowledge to my son daily…I give him the tools to be a strong person…and trust him to build a strong man…
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Tay {June 25th, 2008 at 12:05 pm}
“I am black man, hear me bytch and moan” much treaded way in life”
I know a guy like that and that’s why we are no longer dating. I don’t like to surround myself with negative people like this.
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Fly... {June 25th, 2008 at 9:02 am}
I like what the people were saying yesterday about being attracted to people of other races. If you are attracted (physically and otherwise) to women (or men) of other races, then just say that you are attracted to them. Love, support, nurturing, or whatever else you look for you can be found in a Black woman, even if you haven’t met her yet. Any and all of the qualities that one finds in a woman (or man) of a different race can be found in a Black woman (or man). I just think it’s much easier (and more fair) to say that you are attracted to all races (or even one particular race), and therefore will date as such, rather than saying, I couldn’t find qualites A, B, and C in a Black woman, so in order to find them, I dated Other and therefore now I’ve found true love.
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kamakula {June 25th, 2008 at 10:05 am}
I don’t think anyone is saying that those qualities *can’t * be found in black women. What they are saying is that they *did not* find them in the black women that they dated. However, they found it with their current (non black) squeeze.
My view is that if I’m looking for A, B, C, and D, then I should attempt to make things work with the first person that I find with A, B, C, and D for whom I also am be embodiment of what they are looking for. If the person is not black, then it suggests that race was not among the factors I was looking for in a mate.
No matter how much it bothers us, at this point in our lives, (I’m making some assumptions about the age ranges of ppl here), I don’t think the things we look for (deal makers) are going to change too much. And certainly they’re not changing if someone’s method is to attack. If we want to influence people. . . we need to be a lot more subtle
.
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GOODENess {June 25th, 2008 at 10:07 am}
“My view is that if I’m looking for A, B, C, and D, then I should attempt to make things work with the first person that I find with A, B, C, and D for whom I also am be embodiment of what they are looking for. If the person is not black, then it suggests that race was not among the factors I was looking for in a mate.”
HALLELUJAH!!!!!
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don giovanni {June 25th, 2008 at 1:54 pm}
preach on!!!!
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JBoogie {June 25th, 2008 at 10:24 am}
Exactly…just say you happened to find LOVE with that person. Stop using “well, black women/men don’t seem to like me, so I had to go elsewhere”. Stop saying “I couldn’t find somebody that liked Star Trek that was my own race, so that’s why I’m with Becky or Mei Ling”. Excuses are like…opinions…SO NOT CUTE!
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GOODENess {June 25th, 2008 at 1:30 pm}
(closet trekkie) but a cute one!
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kamakula {June 25th, 2008 at 9:58 am}
Wow don giovanni. Took the words right out of my mind.
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Teacia {June 25th, 2008 at 12:22 pm}
Did he really…no surprise there…he loves the whole mixed world thing…all the while he doesn’t, hasn’t and will never date outside of his race…unless of course he stands up his friend of 2 years for some German chic he met recently.
..a bit of a conundrum ey.
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genius khan {June 25th, 2008 at 9:37 am}
Muse says: “Honestly I think my whole view towards Black men who date outside of their race is indifference. Do you! I don’t despise you but I’m probably not going to invest in you either.”
why wouldn’t you invest [emotionally]in a black man that dates outside of his race?
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Sister Toldja {June 25th, 2008 at 11:22 am}
Because investment is reciprocal. I can respect you has a human being or even a friend. But you don’t get ‘brother’ status if you don’t take that role in the community and I don’t care how active you are. When you decide that you are going to do something like that, you put yourself in a different category.
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genius khan {June 25th, 2008 at 12:04 pm}
oh that’s right a black man can’t reciprocate [emotionaly] with a black woman if he has ever dated outside of his race. that’s just categorically implausibe huh? impossible huh? even Muhmmad, Jesus, Rev. Wright and Farrakhan believe in atonement. (and that’s just one avenue to take) not saying you need or have to attone
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Sister Toldja {June 25th, 2008 at 3:30 pm}
No, he can repent and atone for his sins against Black women, lol. As my friend Maya says “You can always come home. We’ll leave the light on for ya!” LOL!
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Sister Toldja {June 25th, 2008 at 3:31 pm}
And I am referring to men who are currently dating a White woman. If uou used to date one but are dating a sister now, that’s not what I meant. When you are engaged in deviant dating, you are not in my circle of trust.
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maya {June 25th, 2008 at 3:33 pm}
And for the record, that “Maya” would be me. So, please, feel free to challenge the statement that I will not budge from - neither now nor never.
Raggedy niggas have my cultural electric bill SKY HIGH.
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genius khan {June 25th, 2008 at 3:56 pm}
well that aint what you all have been saying and agreeing to. what i’ve read said that if a black man dated a non-black woman Toldya Girl, Muse and Teesh wouldn’t invest [emotionally] in him. (…and perhaps infer that other black women shouldn’t waste their time either)
Teesh said something earlier that made me think: you all have probably already or will in the future have dated, slept with or perhaps even marry a black man that has dated outside of his race. if you don’t know, you don’t know.
THANKS FOR LEAVING THE LIGHT ON! LOL!
i haven’t found any problems coming back home whether you all feel i was not worthy of investing in emotionally or not. (cause i have dated outside my race.) i guess that’s just to good for my ass.
“i make no apologies crooked policies.” Jay Z
smile:) i love yall. serious shit.
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Sister Toldja {June 25th, 2008 at 4:11 pm}
No GK, you are cool until you get with Becky, and you are cool when you come to your senses. But while you are swirling it out….you are on restricted brother status. I still love you, but I won’t fight for you or hold you down they way I would have.
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The Queen {June 25th, 2008 at 12:40 pm}
In my opinion, dating someone that is not black does not make you any less black. It does not stop you from being a brother or a sister.
I also think there are different reasons for dating outside of your race. Some men do date non-black women as trophies. Clearly, they have some other issues going on. Some people though can truly see past color…I don’t think that is wrong.
Also, what about people that are mixed? I know that it’s generally accepted that a half-black and half-white person is black. But…is it fair to create this rule that they too have to date only black people?
Although I can understand the frustration of black women on many levels, I feel limiting yourself to one type of people to love and procreate with is shallow and judgemental. I am a black woman and I am generally attracted to black men. Does that mean if I found a connection with someone outside my race I wouldn’t take it…heck no. Love is blind…that’s part of what makes it so beautiful.
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don giovanni {June 25th, 2008 at 2:00 pm}
what does a role in the community have to do with happiness in life and finding love with someone?? also, why does being pro black mean being anti-everyone else??
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Sister Toldja {June 25th, 2008 at 3:44 pm}
Who said it makes you anti-everyone else? I have never said anything derogratory about White or Asian women in general on here. But if you are Pro-Black, then BE Pro-Black. A lot of cats don’t know what pro-Black means. You can’t be pro-Black when the police kill a Black man, Pro-Black when you feel discriminated against….but then when you choose the person with whom to share your most intimate self, “pro-Black” does not apply?
Black men are more guilty of this than Black women. That’s because a lot of brothers confuse pro-Blackness with pro-BlackMALEness. Sisters aren’t in the equation.
When I say the community, I mean the Black community. And tell me again what exactly a brother is doing for the psyches of the little Black girls around the way when he brings Becky or Sue Ling around? Reminding them how society devalues Black women. Making it ‘cool’ for the young brothers to think Black women don’t have to come first. Smacking the proverbial faces of the Black women who fed and clothed his ass, likely without a Black man’s assistance.
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don giovanni {June 25th, 2008 at 6:05 pm}
in my world…I COME FIRST!!! i am not about to sacrifice my happiness for some fabled thing called “black love” if it doesn’t support my vision of happiness for me!! and when i say fabled black love, i’m talking of the versions that is portrayed in the media!! it doesn’t mean that i’m not in support of black love but if i am in ten consecutive relationships with black women who treat me wrong and doesn’t accept me for who i am, and then come across someone who isn’t black, who treats me better than i have ever felt before and accepts for who i am, why would i give that up?? why would i toss that away?? would you toss that away?? would you toss away a proven love and happiness for a possibility that may or may not be there or in the next 50 people you date??? would you rather have loneliness for your son or daughter because they can’t find love within their community or race or allow them to be happy with someone of another race?? would they be considered a sell out??
the brother who brings home becky or sui ling is telling a young black girl that sometimes you find the love you need from others because you can’t find it in your own, and it is very much acceptable!! i was always taught to be happy, date who made you happy, marry someone who will make you happy, because in the end of it all, it is your life!! and i was taught this by THE STRONGEST BLACK woman in this world!! i was taught about discrimination in all of its forms, whether racial or ethnic, religious, economical, or whatever the case may be and the injustices that come about from these, no matter who it is against and i am all for my people bettering themselves and empowering themselves!! but that will not dictate who i fall in love with!! nor will my love for someone dictate the causes i champion for!!
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Muse {June 25th, 2008 at 11:41 am}
Why should I invest in a man who dates outside of his race? Let me put on my finance hat for a second to explain why I won’t invest in someone who dates outside of his race. When a Black man decides to marry a White woman (or “other”) the wealth that family accomulates will not be ciriculated within the Black community. In fact that money will be invested in other areas. Wives often are the ones who dictate which charitable causes and community service the family participates in. Of course the man has the say so but generally speaking the WIFE is the one who plans the social calendar for the family and plays a large influence on where additional monies go. So why would a White woman, or “other” woman invest in the Black communty when that money could be used to enrich her own community?
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genius khan {June 25th, 2008 at 12:16 pm}
Muse asks: “So why would a White woman, or “other” woman invest in the Black communty when that money could be used to enrich her own community?”
A: well since we’re talking marriage now, why wouldn’t she, she invested her womb, her resources etc. in her black husband. …and you’re right it is the mans responsibility to guide the entire family and make the final calls, (no pun) since you are using the charitable organization example. some causes are human causes that penetrate racial lines we can all benefit from that, imean since we are using charitable organizations as an example. right?
…and since you feel the money and such would/could not be circulated in the black community any longer if a black man married a white woman then how is that a defenite thing. what kind of logic says that if a black man marries a black woman then he won’t or can’t spend money with black businesses or causes. thats a pretty narrow presumptive view. and what of mullato children like Obama i guess his worth will never circulate back into the black communities because he is a product of mixed blood.
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Muse {June 25th, 2008 at 12:39 pm}
There is no guarantee that the money a Black couple makes will contribute to uplifting Black people. However I will venture to say that the probability that the wealth a Black couple creates will touch money Black hands than if an IR couple had it. Also keep in mind that there are PLENTY of White women who have Black children that grow up confused and no ties to their ethnicity. Unfortunately some of these kids don’t discover their other half “The Black ness” until they are grown.
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don giovanni {June 25th, 2008 at 2:37 pm}
and while there are plenty who don’t have ties, there are plenty who do!! i can honestly say that my charitable donations, as well as my expendable income, don’t always go to the black community, just as most people on this site!! my donations go to the causes in which i believe in!! i can’t get behind every plight that happens in the black community because not every plight in the black community affects me!! the causes that i champion for are causes that i believe in, whether it be education, cancer research (breast, ovarian, etc.) homelessness, etc., because these are the causes that tug at my heart and i feel passionate about!! that doesn’t mean that i don’t feel passionate about some of the plights of black people!! hell, i feel terrible about the starving children in africa, but i’d rather do something about the starving children in america more so than the ones in africa because the plight hits home!! i’m in america and not africa!! i think that every person in the world should have a descent education, but i’m not going to go off to south africa and do something about the state of their schools, when we have failing schools here in the u.s.!! i feel horrible about the rising rate of black teenage mothers who end up limiting their chances or making life unnecessarily harder for themselves, but that is a problem they bring upon themselves!! i can’t be responsible for them!! i feel their plight but keep your damn legs closed and you won’t have this problem!! whether my wife, white or black, stands behind me on these positions is up to her, but if i feel that i desire to give to these charities, that is my right!!
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Muse {June 25th, 2008 at 2:40 pm}
Don,
I’m the last person to tell someone how to spend their money. I was just making a general point about where the wealth ends up in an IR relationship. I contribute my time and money to Black people and other causes that I’m passionate about.
I can’t even touch on some of your other statements right now because I’m hungry and my head is about to explode.
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Intelectual Hedonist {June 25th, 2008 at 2:17 pm}
“and what of mullato children”
and there it rares its ugly head again… “Mullato” I hate that word
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Cheryl {June 25th, 2008 at 2:43 pm}
Why wouldn’t they?
No seriously I’m asking why wouldn’t they.
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Sister Toldja {June 25th, 2008 at 3:49 pm}
I was talking about a different sort of investment, lol.
Speaking of mullato children, are we gonna discuss the potentially damaging implications of being raised by a person who doesn’t understand or share your cultural perspective?
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Cheryl {June 25th, 2008 at 4:23 pm}
We can.
If we are specifically speaking on my children, they are being raised by both parents.
If we are speaking in general there are so many factors (other than culture) in the raising of a child. Where culture fits on that list once prioritized is subjective.
I will never say there will never be any problems with the raising of mixed children or children of one race (etc) being raised by parents of a different race (etc). I do think they vary from child to child, parent to parent, experience to experience.
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Sister Toldja {June 26th, 2008 at 12:16 am}
“If we are speaking in general there are so many factors (other than culture) in the raising of a child. Where culture fits on that list once prioritized is subjective. ”
Word.
What sort of things have you done to embrace this challenge? Like, where there strategies that you employed that you feel you may not have had to if you had White kids? What advice would you give other non-Black parents of Black kids?
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The Champ {June 25th, 2008 at 9:54 am}
“But what rips at my heart strings is that Black women are the ones crying out for respect and loyalty while it appears to me that the Black men are pretty much telling us to get over it.”
the main point behind today’s entry is that it goes both ways. both sides have legitimate concerns and issues. for every woman who feels how you feel, theres a guy who feels like this…
“you talk about the lack of quality people out there to fall in love with when most of the time, if they don’t fit into this cookie cutter mold (the car, the job, the salary, etc.) they are overlooked without a second glance!!! however, when someone else pays attention to them, mostly because they can look past the issues that you had with the person, and they are of another race, you get up in arms over it when, again, you didn’t want them in the first place??”
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Precious Rubenstein {June 25th, 2008 at 11:15 am}
I see what you’re saying here, Champ.
I just wish black women’s concerns about respect were treated with a bit more seriousness and thoughtfulness. I’m deep down, soul tired of hearing from black men some version of ” get over it . men will be men. that’s just the way it is. it ain’t even all that serious.”
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The Champ {June 25th, 2008 at 11:48 am}
“I just wish black women’s concerns about respect were treated with a bit more seriousness and thoughtfulness. I’m deep down, soul tired of hearing from black men some version of ” get over it . men will be men. that’s just the way it is. it ain’t even all that serious.””
duly noted.
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Sister Toldja {June 25th, 2008 at 12:21 pm}
Girl, that’s like praying for it to rain kittens.
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Panama Jackson {June 25th, 2008 at 10:38 am}
I have to ask this, and maybe it should have been asked yesterday, but how often does this actual conversation happen (and keep in mind, I don’t want the hyperbolic answer of “all the time”):
Black Woman: (after a long convo) I think we should hang out sometime, what do you think?
Black Man: I’m sorry, but I don’t date Black women.
***
How often does that really happen? How do so many women KNOW that these cats exclusively date “other” women? As a man, I can see how I’d know…hell, my boy would probably tell me, but he also wouldn’t put himself in a position to NOT see a woman naked by telling HER that upfront.
Hell, even if he marries a White woman, from my estimation, it isn’t like he turned his back on Black women, it’s just that he found a white woman to make a life with. I’ll use my own father as an example. He’s been married three times. He married two Black women and one white woman. He just loves women (which gets back to The Champ’s initial point).
Keep in mind, I know there are men out there that say such things. Hell, I think Wesley Snipes has said as much publicly. But if he didn’t have a microphone and a reporter in his face, would we even know that?
And I guess an additional question would be, does dating ONE white woman automatically place you in the category of not being worth investing time into?
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Jess {June 25th, 2008 at 10:47 am}
Id like to read answers to this question as well.
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kamakula {June 25th, 2008 at 10:57 am}
I want to be flippant about this question and post a sarcastic response. . . but I will hold off for today.
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Miss Patterson {June 25th, 2008 at 11:10 am}
P, the interracial dating conversation only rarely comes up between me and other Black men and when it does it’s because a) I know the person very well and b) we happen to be talking about their ‘dating circuit’. Three specific convos come up: 1) with my father who said that non-black women were less of a headache & less uptight [pssst...my father is "special" air quotes intended] 2) with a former friend who claimed that non-black women paid for everything and did more thangs in the bedroom [psst...we're NOT friends anymore] and 3) a guy i know in la-la-land who says non-black women are more exotic than blk women.
My point is it’s easy to make generalizations about what Black men want/feel/like when your father is among the first folks to lay claim to his ignorance and you spent a few years in college being pumped up with poor statistics about there not being any ‘quality’ Black men out there. Sometimes I have to stop and shake myself and say why do I feel this betrayal? Is it really because every Black man I’ve ever wanted to date preferred another color over me? hell no…it has more to do with key figures in my life (i.e. Papa P) having a profound influence on my judgement and skewing my reality. ya feel me?
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Sister Toldja {June 25th, 2008 at 11:25 am}
I’m feeling like this post is just going to lead to Black men attacking the way Black women feel, in front of the ‘inquring minds’ of women of other races.
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Panama Jackson {June 25th, 2008 at 11:48 am}
Maybe it will, and if you don’t want to answer for that reason, then so be it. But I don’t give a shit who’s watching. Dirty laundry is dirty laundry. The shit has to get washed at some point.
I think that a lot of assumptions get made, on both sides of the coin, and a lot of inflation happens, on both sides of the coin.
How Black women feel is relevant. That does not mean that it’s rooted in reality. The same goes with Black men who make the non-sensical assumptions about Black women and use them as their reasons for choosing not to date Black women.
My point with this question is one steeped in the whole idea of reality vs. perception.
For instance, there’s a crime term called “fear of crime”. Essentially people’s fear of crime is actually worse than the actual crime that occurs in their neighborhoods. But due to things like the news, media, etc., the idea of crime seems more prevalent than actually exists. Of course, this depends on where you live. If you live in the SunnySide Projects on 187 Blvd, chances are that your perception is actually your reality.
I’ll take it a step further. I went to Morehouse. I’d never seen so many well-to-do Black folks in my life. I’d never been around that many Black people looking to better themselves educationally and just in all around life. It’s a place where my reality was skewed because suddenly, my perception was that life was actually like what I observed in the AUC (Morehouse, Spelman, Clark, Morris Brown, and ITC). But once you enter the real world you see that life isn’t like that. My perception was no reality. Everybody doesn’t read and many folks don’t care to. Everybody’s not about upliftment, nor does everybody care what happens to the Black community.
Essentially, my entire point is whether or not the perception is really the reality. This is not to say that all Black women are wrong about how prevalent interracial dating is, but I’m interested in knowing how much really happens from experience.
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Teacia {June 25th, 2008 at 11:54 am}
Sadly I agree, men have been trying to justify their actions about this issue for some time. This was not an issue in the past, black men sought after white women as trophies, or as an attempt to make themselves feel better(there’s that self-loathing), but for the most part they had an allegiance to the women who slaved for them while they slaved for others.
It’s sad how blatantly it is thrown up in our face that there is no allegiance or loyalty to us. You will NEVER EVER here or see another race doing that. And you know why, because they have values that are instilled in them as babies to love their own above all else.
Somewhere along the lines we dropped the ball, and instead chose to put down and degrade one another. So you’re damn right black women are angry as hell…all those hundreds of years we stood by your side while you were raped and robbed of your manhood and this is how you fucking repay us…with this we have no allegiance or loyalty bullshit. Woooosa….*exhaling*
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Teacia {June 25th, 2008 at 11:47 am}
Seeing as how I am one of the biggest disproponents of interracial dating I will say this. I love my heritage and who I am. I identify with the past generations and what they had to endure. No I was not waterhosed down while walking to school, no one has ever denied me entrance anywhere but when people see me, no matter how bright my smile is or how long my Remi is, they see a black women. I can be as articulate as they come, but they still see a black woman.
So I say this to my men, no matter who is on your arm, or how you’ve been able to mix cultures, at the end of the day you’re still and will always be a black man. I think that the decline in two parent homes and married black couples has to do with the lack of ethic identification we now have as a race. Whites still have it, Asians still have it, and Hispanics still have it. But it seems to me that we are so hellbent on being accepted by a society that only embraces the negatives in us that we search to branch out into something that is not apart of who we are.
Now, there are men who will flatly tell you that they don’t date black women, I happen to know one(shout out to Eathan) but for the most part it won’t happen either out of shame or fear of backlash. I still believe that ANY black man who can say I love my mother but I won’t date her kind is dealing with a form of self-loathing that I have no energy or desire to invest in.
I just disagree with the whole thing…interracial dating is for losers.
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GOODENess {June 25th, 2008 at 12:03 pm}
“Whites still have it, Asians still have it, and Hispanics still have it.”
we don’t really KNOW that…it’s an assumption…I mean other races are marrying Black men right? IF they still have this “loyalty” that you are saying they do, they wouldn’t be available to marry Black men…just like non-Blacks can’t comment on Black communitites (or lack thereof) we (Black folks) can’t comment on their communities either…no Black…no White…it’s all a gray area…
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Teacia {June 25th, 2008 at 12:27 pm}
yes they still marry black men, but they do have a loyalty where they aren’t blantantly excluding their race as so many black men do. they don’t put down the men/women of their race to marry one of a different.
black men are seen as a commodity and not just by black women, i can understand the obsession with black men, i do not fault women of other races for wanting to indulge in what we were blessed with. i fault black men for not being able to resist temptation.
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genius khan {June 25th, 2008 at 2:09 pm}
well consider this from a loser, (according to your definition) i am under no illusion that i am not black in any way because i have dated a non-black woman nor do i want to be anything other than black. my having dated a non-black woman doesn’t negate my preference for black women or pride in my black heritage or my blackness in any way. i’m aware that you, Muse and Toldya Girl sorely disagree. i was in no way conciously or subconciously attempting to divest from anything black. i’m just not sure how this can apply to all black men who have dated or married outside their race. do tell? …and i’m not sure how once a black man dates outside his race devalues him to a black woman [generally but specifically you all] and lowers his stock and worth to the black community at large and a black woman in particular? do tell?
Teesh says: ” I think that the decline in two parent homes and married black couples has to do with the lack of ethic identification we now have as a race.”
i do believe that divorce rates are high across the board regardless of race. maybe a few points higher or lower if broken down to race. i wonder what’s causing the divorce rates in other races? you don’t think that the bigger influences are universal issues?
you believe specifically that black marriage divorce rates are due to lack of ethnic identity, if i read you correctly. …and you say it’s because [black men particularly] {i read this because your other comments seem to present that its the fault of black men more than blk women for interacial dating} want to be accepted by a society that only embraces the negative in them so they leave the marriage looking to branch out into something that is not a part of who we [black people] are? is this what you’re feeling? lemme know something.
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Teacia {June 25th, 2008 at 3:56 pm}
hello there loser(kidding), i would like to first say that i live in jacksonville florida and i work at a university…so most of the people i interact with are white, but yet and still i seem to only date black men…and you know why…because I make a conscious decision to.
so i have no empathy or desire to invest in someone who has turned his back on me/us for his personal desires or temporary fetishes. yes, i did say selfish…and to pre-empt your question with an answer, my dating black men is a selfish desire but a cause. a cause to preserve our culture, a cause to preserve our heritage and the very essence that makes us black. yes i bare the burden of a race on my shoulders and i wear it with pride…so no i feel no empathy for your past situations b/c that was a also a conscious choice of yours…but i will gladly welcome you back with open arms.
as far as the divorce rates go, i said nothing of the sort…i said we have lower 2 parent homes and unmarried couples…meaning we aren’t even getting married anymore. the divorce rate is pretty even across the board..and i think it has a little to do with the feminist movement, which inherently has nothing to do per se wit this topic.
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Intelectual Hedonist {June 25th, 2008 at 2:28 pm}
“Whites still have it, Asians still have it, and Hispanics still have it.”
Speaking as one Hispanic, I can most assuredly tell you that though I have been able to hold on to my language and my parents have instilled some of our culture, I am more an American than anything else and if I were to go back to my “home” country where I was born but only lived out 3 years of my life I would be able to relate like oil to water.
From viewing other Hispanics in my community I can honestly confirm that they too may have an understanding of their culture, the first generation folk probably speak Spanish, and 2nd and third generations may understand Spanish but speak Spanglish, our culture has been diluted out of a necessity to assimilate to an “American” culture, yes there are some innate things that we have managed to hold on to but even those are not as original and have been watered down.
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Teacia {June 25th, 2008 at 4:08 pm}
I don’t agree with anyone assimilating…I feel that all races should hold on to their cultures. Yes you are in America so there are some things that should be done, but learning to speak the language shouldn’t come at the expense of diluting your heritage.
If I know how to speak Spanish(mi habla espanol), it doesn’t make me less black and speaking English shouldn’t make you less Hispanic. I do feel like Hispanics(who will be the largest minority populus by 2009) have it hard. You are forced by all races to assimilate because your culture is so different, but I say screw them and hold on to who you are and never let go of it.
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Intelectual Hedonist {June 25th, 2008 at 4:24 pm}
not disagreeing with you, however holding on to a culture while being introduced to a completely different culture and trying to straddle both with out mixing is a very hard task. At some point something gives.
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tiffany {June 25th, 2008 at 1:44 pm}
um, panama couple of points:
1. if he exclusively dates non-black women, i doubt he’d be trying to chat me up. that probably explains why that scenario rarely happens.
2. most black men who date inter-racially, *don’t* do so exclusively. that does not, however, mean they don’t recite stereotypes about what’s “better” or different about latin/white/asian-am. chicks when asked about their dating history.
that said, it’s usually starts as an observational thing. like “hmm, i’ve never seen my friend/cousin with a black woman. i wonder what — if anything — is up with that.”
so you ask him “do you ever?”/”have you ever?”/”would you ever?”/”why don’t you?”/”are you opposed to?” and that’s when their reasons come to the fore.
“And I guess an additional question would be, does dating ONE white woman automatically place you in the category of not being worth investing time into?”
one? no (depending on the woman). a pattern of? probably.
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Jess {June 25th, 2008 at 10:43 am}
I dont understand where everybody got the notion that outside races are assuming they have great insight to the black experience. Asking questions about your positions and opinions is merely challenging the speaker and asking that speaker to explain their mentality. Someone couldn’t explain it, or straight up didn’t want to because “I wouldnt know.” Well duh, that’s why I ask. Some people can’t properly defend themselves without bringing in their posse of insults and accusations. But hey, like champ said. Some people will hear what they want to hear. Moving on
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Leila {June 25th, 2008 at 11:06 am}
I agree with Jess that there’s no need for insults and accusations. You can be proud of your race/culture without insulting others. Questions are good so that it can rid of these ignorant stereotypes and educate each other. I’m from East Africa and there is a lot of diversity on the continent as there are also people from Europe, India, Asia, etc. I grew up in a multicultural area in New York and grew up people of all ethnicities and it really exposed me to a lot and I ask questions all of the time. That’s the only way to learn more about all cultures.
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Miss Patterson {June 25th, 2008 at 11:27 am}
Jess, I don’t think anyone made the assumption that you were claiming to have insight on the Black experience (at least i didn’t)…I read every comment that was posted yesterday and my best guess is that yesterday’s post acted as a catalyst for something that happened way before VSB came along.
On the otherhand, I have had conversations with folks who made assumptions about my race, and made the most ignorant generalizations about my experience. So, I’m very sensitive to remarks that mirror those encounters. So yeah, it happens. However, I also know that not everyone feels this way towards me or my race.
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Sister Toldja {June 25th, 2008 at 11:39 am}
Don’t say someone when you mean Sister Toldja.
I am seriously at the point of tears. I sat on this blog all day yesterday like an idiot, dodging insults and disrespect from women of other races, while Black men accused ME of being mean, eltitst, disrespectful… jumping up to defend these other women, while never even recognizing that I had been disrespected. Why? Because Black men believe just as much as anyone else this bullshit notion of Black women being these evil, angry villians and you are more than willing to constantly remind the rest of the world as such.
So I’m not willing to trivalize my experiences and my notions of Black nationalism when someone asks a question like “Why should the Black family be saved?” That question to me was so fraught with ignorance and passive disrespect. Somethings can’t be learned or taught via the comments section of a blog. If you really want to learn about some of the things I discussed (and the passive attitude I got from the very dismissive questions led me to believe you two ladies did NOT in fact want to understand anything beyond ‘how dare this girl say I shouldn’t date Black men’), then perhaps you should have asked me to point you in the direction of a book or course of study, or an offline conversation between you and I. An email, something.
I did recieve some emails yesterday from readers of this blog. One pointing out how none of the brothers seemed to notice the many times I had been blatnantly disrespected by other commenters, and one from a moderator asking ME to be more respectful.
I wasn’t going to respond or say anything else about yesterday’s subject. As I have been reminded, non-Black women have carte blanche to be snide, angry, disrespectful and elitist….but God forbid my Black ass displays anything remotely resembling indigination or frustration, cause then I am the classic evil, angry, crass, emasculating Black bitch. Luckily, the White and Asian damsels have Black Supermen to come save them from me. I wanted to play nice, but screw that. I don’t take kindly to disrespect.
I wish the Champ would take his ‘Black hat’ off.
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Jess {June 25th, 2008 at 11:45 am}
I never once said ‘how dare this girl say I cant date black men!” as a matter of fact, I dont remember saying ANYTHING about me dating black men at all. I said that you bumping into interracial couples was racist. you attacked my entire people, and me, and said that no black man in his right mind would date me. Which, again, was a topic I didn’t touch upon. All because I questioned the reasoning behind your actions.
Read that convo over, you seemed to have structured an attack upon yourself that never happened. Or, you can cry. Whatever, doesnt matter to me anymore.
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Sister Toldja {June 25th, 2008 at 12:28 pm}
In the most respectful way posible, you don’t seem to comprehend anything I say. I don’t know if it’s ’selective hearing’ or if I am not as skilled a writer as I once believed (will it smack of elitism if I say “doubt that”?). Let me leave you alone before one of these brothers kills me.
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The Champ {June 25th, 2008 at 12:55 pm}
sister t,
***I left this as a comment for jess, but it holds relevance for you as well. I’m keeping the black hat on f0r the rest of the day, btw***
after re-reading yesterdays comments, i do see how your initial comments could have come off as condescending, and i do think that other races of people do need to be aware of how sensitive of an issue this is for black people, black women in particular.
i still do feel that sister t pushed the envelope off the table, but even if i completely disagree with the means used to address it, i do understand where her anger and frustrations stem from.
its funny, i always thought that sensitivity training was some pc bullshit, but i guess going through something like that does have some merit.
with that being said, regardless of who started it, i’m gonna ask you both to chill with the back (and front) handed insults and putdowns.
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Teacia {June 25th, 2008 at 12:59 pm}
Oh…it’s so selective, b/c your initial post yesterday was eloquently written.
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The Champ {June 25th, 2008 at 12:29 pm}
sister t,
i’m sorry you feel this way.
I have nothing else to say about this.
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genius khan {June 25th, 2008 at 2:27 pm}
Toldya Girl Tellem: “Black men accused ME of being mean, eltitst, disrespectful… jumping up to defend these other women, while never even recognizing that I had been disrespected.”
Toldya Girl i might be stating the obvious but certainly it wasn’t me who disrespected you. maybe you feel i disrespected you by not defending you against someone else perhaps. well hell i felt a lil disrespected by being lumped in with the black men who had the psychosis you spoke of from the book. i don’t recall you acknowledging any exceptions to the rule so to speak. i began asking questions and trying to make it known that i believe myself to be a living breathing exception to the “sell outs and treasonous” to the black race men you spoke of. …besides it looks like you were doing a good job of defending your beliefs on yesterday and any other day for that matter. you didn’t seem punked or slapped around any more than you were administering it. i feel your pain but i won’t be made to feel like i allowed you to be beat up in my presence. you took off ur hoops and was handling yours regardless of who was right or wrong or who swung first. tell me what i as a black man should have said? [if i was a righteous black man, of course and not an interracial dating, disloyal wannabe] do tell?
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Teacia {June 25th, 2008 at 3:40 pm}
yes Toldja came out swinging but some sort of acknowledgement to what she was saying would have been nice. i think she felt like it was her against “the others” and her brothers.
and after reading the entire comment section from yesterday i have to admit, she definitely pushed the envelope to the edge, but your lack of support sent her over.
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Sister Toldja {June 25th, 2008 at 4:18 pm}
Exactly. If I had a level headed sister like you and Muse there so I didn’t have to fight alone, it wouldn’t have been so harsh. The ‘brothers and others’ teaming up against ME, which in the case of the former is enough to make me want to cut someone, had my pressure UP.
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Teacia {June 25th, 2008 at 5:12 pm}
My bad homie, I’m usually all over it. I got a little busy at work yesterday and didn’t come back and check it out.
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Muse {June 25th, 2008 at 12:10 pm}
Jess,
Yesterday you posed a question to the board asking why Black women get upset or have an attitude towards Black men who date interracially. (Forgive me if I’m paraphrasing). The question itself isn’t a bad one but in the context of what was being discussed and the plethora of opinions that were shared; I found your question to be condescending. My personal belief was that you didn’t seek a legitimate answer but the question was posed as a back handed insult towards Black woman.
The reason why I found your question to be condescending is because several Black women shared their views on IR relations. Sista Toldja expressed very eloquently (and with a little fire) why the idea of IR relationships was counter-productive to uplifting the Black community. Other women also shared their views as well. Although some of the opinions were rather radical, an intelligent person would have been able to decipher or at least come up with various reasons why some Black women feel the way they do. Anyone with critical thinking skills wouldn’t need to ask that question when a variety of positions were given to you.
Then again I could be wrong but inside you know your motive for asking that question. Personally I don’t think it was for genuine knowledge.
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Teacia {June 25th, 2008 at 12:29 pm}
WELL!!! (church voice)
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Muse {June 25th, 2008 at 2:20 pm}
Did I miss the memo or is it Fuck Black Women Week in the blogsphere?
Serious question folks.
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The Champ {June 25th, 2008 at 2:28 pm}
i’m curious: in the case of vsb.com, are you referring to the comments or the entries themselves? (or both)
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genius khan {June 25th, 2008 at 2:47 pm}
Muse says: “Everyone wants to be one human race and are on some kumbiya mess but at the same time they are allowed to hold on to their cutural ties. Why can’t Blacks do the same thing?
who says black people can’t, i do and i’m a black man. i understand that you believe that if i have interracialy dated that i can’t have strong cultural ties. why not? that’s a self limiting belief IF you believe that?
Muse says: “My father believes that integration is the worst thing that ever Black community and now that I’m older I understand why he feels that way. Black don’t own or have anything of our own. Some view that IR relationship is a consequence of integration.”
my mother (a graduate of Alabama A&M and Tuskeegee University, bless her soul) believed the same thing about the downside of integration primarily because of the financial loses. When integration came about, black people began to be able to purchase things from white business where before integration we had to provide goods and services for our own and it birthed a merchant class and a few millionaires to boot.
some know that interracial dating was going on long before integration came about, evidenced by the many skin tones in the black race. [and all of it didn’t occur by force and rape, people were attracted/lustful to/for one another] the only way that i can see to ensure that the races never mixed [if that’s what you desire] is if were totally separated from other races.
now talk black to me.
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Muse {June 25th, 2008 at 3:00 pm}
Genius Klan,
I’ve been talking Black to you. Missed the memo? : )
Anyway my head hurts. As I stated before I’m not too invested nor am I going to beat myself up over Black men who date interracial. If you have strong cultural ties, yet you are comfortable with dating outside of your race then do you. Then again doesn’t it seem like an oxymoron for someone to say they have strong cultural/ethic ties but choose to date outside of that culture? Ding dong.
Anyway this debate is going around in circles. I have Black male friends who date outside of their race and I can still have tea with them. They are who they are and I can’t control another person’s life choices. I guess the ultimate question comes down to WHY date interracially when there are so many beautiful, fun, KIND, educated Black women running around the earth? Then again that’s just me.
Hell it makes more sense for Black women to date interracially than Black men because we are surpassing you guys economically as well as educationally so it would make sense for a woman to marry up and well the higher you reach economically, the less Black men there are to choose from…
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genius khan {June 25th, 2008 at 3:37 pm}
Muse sighs: “Hell it makes more sense for Black women to date interracially than Black men because we are surpassing you guys economically as well as educationally so it would make SENSE for a woman to marry up and well the higher you reach economically, the less Black men there are to choose from…
does this not go against you and Toldya Girls’ loyalty to race in dating beliefs. (ok, i get it you’ve rationalized it in someway) so its SENSE thru probabilities over loyalties huh? isn’t love and compatibility just as rare and come at a premium just like deasant black men in this society. so wouldn’t it make SENSE for people to accept attraction, compatibility and love where they find it over loyalty? (rhetorical, of course i know you all think that doesn’t make SENSE.) so what it’s a double standard. the harder you scold black men for interracial dating the goofier this exception looks to me. i see the point but how unreal is that? (rhetorical)
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Precious Rubenstein {June 25th, 2008 at 3:58 pm}
Yeah, sometimes you DO get that whiff of low key hostility towards black women…
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Sister Toldja {June 25th, 2008 at 4:20 pm}
I think it is always “Fuck Black Women” week on the net, off the net, on the block, in the streets, in the news…. it’s just usually a lot more subtle.
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Sister Toldja {June 25th, 2008 at 4:32 pm}
GK- but hereeeeers the difference. When we are loyal to you all, we reduce our likelihood of getting married. It feels kinda stupid sometimes being loyal to a group that won’t recriprocate. While not ALL Black men will date interacially, stats show that you all are over 2x more likely to do it than we are. Furthermore, those of you who date us exclusively are not all that you should be in terms of how you treat us. That is a convo for another day. All this to say, while I wouldn’t date a man of another race….I understand why someone else would. Shit, my “brothers” hung me out to dry yesterday in order to defend some Asian woman who was no less bitchy than I.
Also- if we focus on dating White folks specifically….if a Black straight man dates a White, it’s a White woman. People don’t associate White women with racist opression as much as they do White men (I do! But a lot of cats don’t). Where as Black women would be sleeping with “the enemy”. “The man”. Plus, while Black men’s complicated reltaionship with white women starts with them being “forbidden fruit”, Black American women still bear in mind (at times) the rape of their ancestors by White men. Also, Black women seem to be more aware of the concept of fetishizing that Black men.
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Precious Rubenstein {June 25th, 2008 at 5:26 pm}
To Champ: I know you didn’t ask me specifically, so don’t cuss me out, pleaseandthanks, but if you wanted to know where on this site you might get a faint whiff of “fuck black women”, see the whole chick logic post and the comments. That might be more “fuck women” in general, but the same idea holds, at least for me. I found the post and many comments to be offensive.
*ducking for cover*
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The Champ {June 25th, 2008 at 4:46 pm}
sister t,
while this…
“While not ALL Black men will date interacially, stats show that you all are over 2x more likely to do it than we are.”
…is true, that stat is extremely misleading
85 percent of married black men are married to black women, as opposed to 93 percent of married black women being married to black men. for the mouthbreathers, this means that for every 100 of us who are married, 85 of us are married to black women. (i’d link where the numbers are from, but i’m posting from my sidekick)
since theres a difference of 15 to 7 percent, technically, black men are more than 2 times more likely to marry outside of the race than black women are, but jus