Relationship Downfall Week: Say Heffa Say What?
One of my favorite saying is this: Show me a beautiful woman, and I’ll show you a man who’s tired of f*cking her.
That statement alludes to myriad things and quite possibly unlocks the keys to the male/female universe, similar to how Kurt Cobain’s lyrics were the key to everlasting life, which is why James Earl Ray was re-hired to force him to commit suicide in 1994.
It alludes to a woman’s ability to maintain herself, usually to keep her man happy, which means that the woman is sacrificing her time and energy remaining who the man wants her to be. And as most will tell you, women are nurturers and sacrificers for the greater good of a relationship—or at least definitely moreso than men. On the other half of comma, it alludes to man’s roaming nature and inability to recognize and hold on to a good thing while he has it.
Face it, she won’t be beautiful for long. If anything, he’s tired of smurfing her way to soon. He should at least wait to be tired of smurfing her when she looks like the veggie section of the grocery store.
Men are impatient and prone to cheating. Men are unable to recognize a good thing while we have it. We don’t recognize the hard-work and sacrifice of women. Men basically suck.
And for this reason men are usually at fault when relationships go bad. If he just tried harder to do what he said he’d do or gave her a little more time and treated her like the queen that she is, she wouldn’t be the bitter bitch beauty queen that she is today.
It’s thinking like this that is just downright screwing up relationships left and right with the speed of a 2-second man. As a man growing up with three sisters, I’ve heard how much men suck and how all of their problems are rooted in some man’s inability to “just damn act right.” That’s all it takes. Just act right and all will be well.
Fiddlesticks and bullocks. Fact is that men suck. I know. I am man. Grr.
But I have to wonder why women never really take any credit for tanking the very relationships that they claim would be just fine if the man did what?
Class???
Act right.
If you let the magazines tell it, all women walk into relationships baggage-free and ready to tackle the world anew and be every woman like Chaka Khan. Truth is, many women are more like Whitney. So how come when (if) things go South it’s always the man driving the car? I actually want to know why women don’t claim ownership of any bad relationship they’ve ever been apart of.
Admittedly, men aren’t perfect and a lot of us have a lot to learn. It’s true. But how is it that women are all perfect until a man comes into the picture and kicks dirt in your sandbox. Let’s take it one step further. I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. Women are crazy. Some men just tend to expose your craziness more than others-but the crazy is there.
Yet, somehow, you only keyed his car because he didn’t act right. How in the hell does him not doing what he said he’d do justify taking out a windshield?
I’ve had a chick tell me she couldn’t get into Heaven without me by her side.
That is insane. So how come I think there’s a chick out there who would think that was sweet and that I should appreciate having that woman by my side?
Because a chick DID tell me that.
Why come she doesn’t realize that’s a reason to run?
And how come when she tells her friends that we broke up, it’s my fault that relationship tanked?
I believe it was the great philosopher Jadakiss who said it best…
…why?
-PANAMA
112 comments
These things are complicated. A lot of us are still going through periods of self discovery and realization. We are learning things about ourselves that we didn’t think was important before, we are realizing that certain behaviors and activities just don’t work well.
My last LTR started when we were roughly 19 and ended about 3.5 years later. We definitely changed a lot during that time but the impending graduation and us realizing that what we individually wanted for our lives at the time was not compatible ultimately led to the end of the relationship.
Certainly, there was some BS from both of us. I’m sure if we wanted, we could easily cast blame on each other and point to certain issues being why the relationship ended. But I know otherwise and hope she does too.
When you let yourself dwell on excuses like that, and not the truth - that ones values, outlook, plans, religion, desires, just didn’t match up, then you can become bitter about potential future relationships and it’s easy to lump all men or women into some category.
That being said, I’m sure there are crazy people out there on both sides so what I’ve said here may not apply to all situations. (this is a full 2 cents Champ).
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It takes two people to have a relationship but only one person to f*** it up–whether it be the man or the woman.
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“Men are impatient and prone to cheating. Men are unable to recognize a good thing while we have it. We don’t recognize the hard-work and sacrifice of women. Men basically suck.”
I think its funny that when we men admit out faults, women are quick to co-sign and even commend said men for adimitting to the faults. But the second we point out women’s faults, we get hit with the same line “You can’t generalize all women that way.”
Interesting.
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Panama {May 6th, 2008 at 10:11 am}
Tell it.
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“I actually want to know why women don’t claim ownership of any bad relationship they’ve ever been apart of.”
ummm…yeah. me too. i think we’ll be waiting forever for this answer though
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Ms. Freckles {May 6th, 2008 at 8:57 am}
@ The Champ - The women you are speaking of when you say they “don’t claim ownership of any bad relationship they’ve ever been apart of” are more than likely filled with an ego that will not allow them to show their faults to others which is why they don’t take ownership of their part. It’s a sign of vulnerability and they more than likely don’t want to portray anything outside of being “a great woman” when it comes to others. To avoid judgement SOME women will make it as though they were the victim and the man was the rat-bastard that betrayed and hurt them.
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Wise Diva {May 6th, 2008 at 9:03 am}
Yep, Ms. Freckles beat me to it. I was going to say ego, for sure. To add another angle to the ego being a reason, we don’t like to think that we chose wrong, overlooked red flags, or wasted time, so it’s much easier to play the martyr, the victim, the delicate flower who was just ripped from a field of daisies by some brute *eyeroll*. We definitely play our roles in the demise of a relationship, whether we want to woman up or admit it or not.
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Panama {May 6th, 2008 at 9:52 am}
As happy as I am that you all are wise enough to know that women’s ego plays a large part in it…how come that sentiment won’t play outside of this forum?
Very rarely, and I mean RARELY, have I come across women who actually say, “you know what? that was on me…” or “you know, I just didn’t work hard enough”
And I’ve spoken to leagues of women at length about that. 9 times out of 10, when this convo comes up, it always ends up with what a man isn’t doing to keep his relationship and that we’ll realize it when we lost our good woman.
This makes no sense to me.
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Wise Diva {May 6th, 2008 at 11:04 am}
so you are saying that women should shout that I effed that up, as much as, if not more than, when we declare men ain’t shit?
so, our dating fuckups need better PR?
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Panama {May 6th, 2008 at 11:08 am}
No. Though that it is funny. I think that in any conversation with women about their prior relationships, its always the assumption that if not for the man, you all would be in wedded bliss and we all know that shit ain’t true.
You know, this brings up another point. Basically, if not for men and their fuck-ups, you all would be married to the first man you entered into a relationship with, right?
I do think that women need to take more ownership for the demise of a relationship that didn’t directly involve cheating and outright disrespect.
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Teacia {May 6th, 2008 at 11:34 am}
Well to answer your question probably so…and here’s why. Women are more tolerable than men are. We love every ounce of you, even the part of you that ain’t shit. Men on the other hand don’t want to be bothered with something or someone who annoys them.
If men did understand our plight and how we think and how to relate to us and respect us appropriately, I do think more women would be married…maybe not this woman but definitely more women.
I do agree though that women are just as trifling if not more trifling than some men and it is not always the fault of men.
And I strongly believe that the women race as a whole could put this shit on lock if we just tightened up. But those days are long behind us, with the fierce competition in dating, women are doing just about anything to get and keep a man these days. Which is in turn ruining it for the rest of you who hold our men to traditionally higher standards.
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GOODENess {May 6th, 2008 at 12:05 pm}
WHOA NELLY! hold your nuptial horses! as a happily divorced individual…I will be the first to admit that marriage isn’t for everyone! now in my case…I played my part in the demise of a marriage that should have never come to fruition to begin with…real talk, what GOD put together, let no man put asunder…but what MAN put together? BURN BABY BURN! I hate when I hear a woman romanticize a less that savory connection and pretend like she wasn’t following him from work in her homegirl’s car, with a hoodie and shades on in the middle of the night! Most of the time the relationship lacked healthy trust, communication, and balance, so it was gonna die eventually anyway…be honest!
“That relationship died, for you to be born, you worth more…Than anything you could cop in a store…For you to grow he had to go so what you stoppin him for?” (Common)
I am a male advocate…and while I agree that boys with men tendencies tend to sour the feminine genus on the shullbit and shenanigans of the former…I am a firm believer in the idea that good brothers with this mystical power of “act right” exist…
My biggest dilemma is…WTF is “act right”? I mean it’s different things for different people…knee grows watch too much BET! We all want a healthy, balanced, loving, respectful relationship…something SUCCESSFUL! The deal is folks, “success” for one, may not equate “success” for the other…like the potential baby daddy list at Maury Povich…every single person is different…
I am a sister with “act right” when I am in a ree…relay…relayshun…ah hell I can’t even type it…LOL, but you know what I mean…it would be a tragic notion believe that those of us that have learned some genuine life lessons (the hard way) are out here alone treading water in the sea of Joey Greco’s claim to fame! (BTW cheating is NOT the ONLY reason to leave a relationship, but I digress) I know there are men that have been through something real…and when you try and fail and learn from it…
“THE BULLSHIT YOU’VE BEEN THROUGH BECOMES FERTILIZER FOR YOU TO GROW!” (OMG)
My theory is that GROWNUPS learn from their romantic (and platonic) triumphs and tribulations and apply them to the next song on life’s soundtrack! hence…”act right” GOOD, ACTING RIGHT brothers and sisters exist…I mean I ain’t never seen a million dollars, but I know that ish is real…right?
I won’t go as far to paint all men with the same “act right” deficient brush, because I don’t want that brush on me…but I feel you…newsflash, a lot of us women ain’t shit either…(chew on that!) I prefer a man that has a few miles on him and some life experience under his belt…I take comfort in it!
**this concludes my dissertation…you may now return to your regularly scheduled program, already in progress!
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Deviant {May 6th, 2008 at 12:17 pm}
“mystical powers of ‘act right’”
-gotta love it
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Treezy F. Baby {May 6th, 2008 at 1:05 pm}
“Very rarely, and I mean RARELY, have I come across women who actually say, “you know what? that was on me…” or “you know, I just didn’t work hard enough””
I realize that this may be applicable to some relationships and not others, but this is one scenario of why women don’t and should take the blame. So going back to your whole first admission that women are nurturers claim…
Women only go crazy when they’ve overextended their womanly nurturing tendencies to men who never deserved it in the first place and what a woman should own up to is that she shouldn’t have given so much of herself to anyone so quickly when she didn’t really know their intentions. So when said woman feels she’s given of herself…its true, she can never feel that she didn’t “work hard enough”…I’d say she worked TOO hard in fact trying to nurture a relationship that is not really for her to nurture.
Women need to accept the blame that they USE their nurturing/womanly wiles to try to MANIPULATE a man into loving them. Sometimes, we need to kick back do the man thing, not pay any attention to him, shit, play some video games and really see if this relationship and this person is for us and if he really wants us and loves us like that. Minus all this mama-replacement ish we do. Because women will spend so much time doing busy work trying to manipulate, nurture, cook him breakfast, wash his clothes, co-sign for his car to MAKE a wedding happen that we don’t even spend enough time contemplating if this person is truly worth all that. This is where we go wrong! Sometimes, our gut tells us and we are dumb enough to not listen. Take the blame there too. The fact is most women know when for whatever the reason, incompatibility, different values, wrong timing, long before it happens that the relationship would end. She should blame herself for not protecting her heart.
And for the record, I’m speaking in my abstract universal woman voice, cause I have myself never felt compelled to act crazy on any man (keyed car, etc.) And I personally think that the end of a relationship means that it “just wasn’t meant to be.” Also I try to put a limit on my nurturing men who aren’t my best friends or relatives or soon-to-be relatives (husband). But seeing how it is such a frequent occurrence for women to trip out, I’m not above assuming that one day I maybe perhaps snowballs-chance-in-hell will act in a crazy manner over some dude.
NAAAAAAAAAAAH!
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Teacia {May 6th, 2008 at 11:13 am}
Well, I’ll be the first to let everyone know that I’m a self sabotager and it has nothing to do with ego.
I have serious abandonment issues a.k.a. “daddy issues”. My mother and father were married as I was growing up and still are for that matter, but my dad has lived a seperate life from his family.
So when things start getting a little rocky and I see the nearest exit sign, I dip out. I either do something heinous or crazy to make them want to bounce or I just say fuck it and move on.
I don’t know, I guess I don’t ever want to be left so I leave first. I have been engaged 6 times, well 7 but I only got 6 rings and yes they were all different men. But I found a reason to not settle, and I still to this day look for the nearest exit sign when things are going as I would like for them to.
Honestly, in some instances…maybe in most, it is the fault of the man because I play no games. I’m real and I tell you what I’m thinking ALWAYS. I don’t hint, I don’t do embarrassed and I’m a freak( quietly) so I have no problem in the dating scene. But I’m a keep it moving kind of chic these days…not to say that’s a good thing but it is what it is and I have no quams about that.
My family thinks I have committment issues..DUH…but so what. I am sure that one day I will meet a man who gives me a sense of security and interests me spritually, mentally, PHYSICALLY and emotionally. But I’m not holding my breath, nor am I pouting about it.
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Panama {May 6th, 2008 at 11:24 am}
Ya know, I have a theory on chicks with commitment issues.
A woman can only have commitment issues if she has the potential for options.
Namely, ugly heffas shouldn’t have commitment issues.
Doesn’t really relate to your comment, but I just thought I’d share my theory.
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Teacia {May 6th, 2008 at 11:28 am}
Well considering I’m absolutely gorgeous you’re theory just may be on point.
But who knows…
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GOODENess {May 6th, 2008 at 12:07 pm}
I’ve heard that too…it also ties into that famous Southern saying…
“if you want to be happy in your life…
never make a prtty woman your wife…
if you want joy your whole life through…
find an ugly woman to take care of you!”
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Treezy F. Baby {May 6th, 2008 at 1:14 pm}
That’s why that fool went back to Alabama! LOL. See whatta dummy I would be for blaming myself for that relationship’s demise! LOL.
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The Champ {May 6th, 2008 at 2:07 pm}
“hold your nuptial horses!!!”
…another t-shirt
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Ana B {May 6th, 2008 at 9:01 pm}
comedy…but I would buy it
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tiffany {May 6th, 2008 at 9:06 pm}
who said we don’t?
pointing out an ex’s faults doesn’t mean we don’t understand our part in it. it just means that we’re mad at him for not acting in accordance with our version of “right.”
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The only reason most men think that women are crazy is because men do not understand the woman’s thought process. It’s easier to say “she is crazy” rather than trying to figure out where she is coming from and what HE did to provoke the “craziness”.
Bottomline is that both men and women have things that the opposite sex will never understand no matter how much they think they know.
I may even go as far as to say men may be even more “crazy” for lack of a better term than women are. They simply don’t vocalize it as much as women do. Women in general are much better communicators….men on the other hand will not tell you that instead of coming to get his clothes out your house that he’s going to slice your neck instead. Women will let you know they will “mess you up” prior to doing it…but it’s up to the man to listen.
Just my $0.01
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Panama {May 6th, 2008 at 9:59 am}
Ms. Freckles - thank you for this comment. I have so many qualms with what you said I’m going to outline them:
1) It’s easier to say “she is crazy” rather than trying to figure out where she is coming from and what HE did to provoke the “craziness”.
Hmm…this was my point exactly. Somehow, her acting like a damn fool is completely in response to whatever a man did. Is it possible that maybe this particlar woman isn’t emotionally stable or her baggage has fucked her up in a way that she overreacts or jumps to conclusions unnecessarily? We all know women (and men) as well who do that. Though with men we expect it, but women are only reacting to what a man makes her do.
Men are clearly God.
2) I may even go as far as to say men may be even more “crazy” for lack of a better term than women are. They simply don’t vocalize it as much as women do.
Hmm…are you really saying that men hold our crazy in? We are in so much control of our instabilities that we can just hold onto our nutcasedness so that women look bad and we look in control? Yeah, methinksnot. Crazy doesn’t get contained. It erupts.
3) Women in general are much better communicators….men on the other hand will not tell you that instead of coming to get his clothes out your house that he’s going to slice your neck instead.
Ya know, I actually don’t think that women are better communicators, en mass. I think women want to talk more about feelings but it doesn’t mean that actual communication of usable information occurs. Opening up your mouth and speaking doesn’t mean communicating. It just means youre talking. I think women are just as confused as men about their feelings and their thoughts but men just don’t speak on it unless we know what we want to say. Women will speak on it with no clue what they want to say.
For the record, some women are great communicators, I know.
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Teacia {May 6th, 2008 at 11:27 am}
Yeah I have to agree, although provoked in some cases, I don’t think it’s fair for us to say it’s his fault we’re acting a fool.
In my much younger college days, I have stood outside a guys door yelling, screaming and cursing, but there is no way that at almost 30 you will ever find me degrading myself in such a manner.
I think mental stability comes with maturity, experience and a sense of self respect that was instilled in you as a child. I never dated in high school, well not really, so when I got to college I had to learn the process of how to react to certain situations.
I like to believe that I’m polished now when dealing with confrontation. I think we as women have to start demanding a certain level of respect from men if we ever want to get this thing under control. But there’s always one willing to degrade herself for a few moments of his time…and then turns on the crazy when he has better things to do with his time…and of course that’s his fault…riiiight.
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GOODENess {May 6th, 2008 at 12:09 pm}
“Opening up your mouth and speaking doesn’t mean communicating.”
this is GOLDEN!…PLATINUM, even!
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tiffany {May 6th, 2008 at 9:37 pm}
okay, slashing somebody’s tires is crazy all day. no excuse for that.
BUT i think we all have a responsibility not do stuff that you know could make somebody want to slash your tires.
example: if you “broke up” with a (wo)man, but you’re still sleeping with him/her, and dating other people, you can’t really be surprised when (s)he calls you up to cuss you out. and if you know (s)he has crazy inclinations, you shouldn’t be surprised to find a brick through your windshield.
i actually had to have this conversation with a dude i was dating. this dumb em effer “broke up” with his ex shortly before we started dating. then he starts telling me about how crazy she is:
me: crazy like how?
him: she called me cursing me out the other night. she pages me all the time…
me: well are you doing to make her crazy?
him: nah, not really.
me: are you still sleeping with her?
him: um… yeah.
me: and her friend saw us out at the mall holding hands.
him: um…yeah.
me: well there’s your answer right there… stop sleeping with her.
and yes, i stopped dating him after that conversation.
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But how is it that women are all perfect until a man comes into the picture and kicks dirt in your sandbox
It usually is the first relationship that a woman has that challenges her, exposes her vulnerabilities, insecurities, unhappiness, fears, the first time someone reaches to the depths of her heart, soul, body, and mind. Many times a woman is not prepared for that intensity. So it could appear (to her) that this is directly related to the love she feels for her man. I mean if she was chillin’, happy as a lark before the dude, and dude enters her life and the male-female dynamics come into play, it CAN convince her that it’s BECAUSE of him. The reality is, though, she is learning who she is within a relationship, and sometimes it can surprise even her.
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The Champ {May 6th, 2008 at 9:14 am}
“It usually is the first relationship that a woman has that challenges her, exposes her vulnerabilities, insecurities, unhappiness, fears, the first time someone reaches to the depths of her heart, soul, body, and mind”
this is all well and good, but you could say the exact same thing about a guy in his first real relationship as well. this still doesnt explain why we always get the brunt of the blame, especially since we get hurt just as much as ya’ll do.
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Ahem.
My name is Sister Toldja, and I have messed up a good thing (or two) in my day.
I think I am the opposite of a lot of women, whereas where they can usually find a way to blame a man for the demise of a relationship, if I am sad that it ended I will more than likely blame myself.
That said, I think that the things the Champ listed do apply to the demise of most relationships. I haven’t been in an LTR, but I have had a few “woulda beens” that ended because a guy wasn’t treating me well. And a lot of my girlfriends have exited relationships because of cheating and poor treatment.
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The Champ {May 6th, 2008 at 9:11 am}
“That said, I think that the things the Champ listed do….”
not to be nit-picky (even though i am), but p wrote this entry, not me.
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Sister Toldja {May 6th, 2008 at 9:32 am}
Oh, yes, um, I knew that. I just decided to take your crown away and make him the new Champ. You can be the Challenger.
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The Champ {May 6th, 2008 at 10:00 am}
i dont wear a crown. i just have a bevy of bejeweled belts with “the champ” embroidered on the buckle.
i really dont, but, i guess i just like alliteration.
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I have to go ahead and ask this…
Do women actually think that men ruin them? That you all are fine until a man comes in and fucks up your heads?
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Cheryl {May 6th, 2008 at 10:35 am}
Men don’t ruin women. They ruin themselves. No one can make you become crazy, you are either nuts or have the propensity for nuttiness, or you’re normal.
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Teacia {May 6th, 2008 at 11:40 am}
No one is born crazy, and men don’t fuck up our heads our parents do.
What we spend most of our life trying to overcome is our childhood. There aren’t enough healthy working relationship on display these days. Do you know that back in the late 60’s 3 in 4 homes had a mother and father present, working together and creating a loving and stable family environment.
That statistic is now 1 out of 3 homes…66% of our country’s children don’t have 2 parents to show them how to become productive and loving society members. And while we were growing up the number was 2 out of 4, so we were screwed regardless.
A working model is a very important thing, a lot of people diminish the importance of having a male and female guide your path. If you’ve never seen a healthy relationship at work, then how in the hell do you know how to be in one…happenstance.
Yes men do come along, as do women and fuck up the already tarnished model we have, and letting go isn’t an easy thing. We’re all made up emotion, everything that drives up is altered by emotion. There’s no running and hiding from it, so until women and men learn to face and deal with their demons, this healthy relationship thing is lost for generations to come.
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Deviant {May 6th, 2008 at 12:03 pm}
Yes.
And in some cases they do. (The opposite is also true.)
But it’s not the man’s fault if she stays fucked up.
Think of the woman as the city of Pompeii and the man fucking her up as “liquid hot mag-ma” *channeling Dr. Evil*
She may be in ruins after he’s done but it’s on her to rebuild herself to her former glory and splendor.
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GOODENess {May 6th, 2008 at 12:12 pm}
I don’t think that…I know we let our men come in and remix us…we allow the insecurities to arise adn allow “baggage” to accumulate…not the man’s fault…we do it to ourselves…
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The Queen {May 6th, 2008 at 12:28 pm}
I think sometimes men do ruin women, at least temporarily. Keeping it real, women do this to men just as often. I know some good men that dealt with a shady, manipulative broad and ta da…temporarily he is a biotch. A bad relationship can influence people to change their habits and hide the best parts of themselves. The hope is that they can get past it.
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D*stroy {May 6th, 2008 at 3:21 pm}
Queen I agree. I would compare it to men who make women insecure. The woman wasn’t insecure prior to being with the dude but once he started doing shady sh*t she became that way.
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I think dealing with heartbreak from love, or coping with the pain of an unhealthy relationship can take it’s toll. I don’t think there is much good in placing blame on a man for it, but a woman may feel that she has to regain power she feels she lost from a relationship sometimes.
so a man CAN eff her head up and it CAN feel as if it/he was not worth it when you are knee deep in the emotions, but saying she is “fine” is all relative.
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Cheryl {May 6th, 2008 at 10:38 am}
I agree. I also don’t think that women allow themselves to fully heal (after said heartbreak) before moving on to the next encounter or relationship.
They go into a new relationship with wounds still seeping from the last relationship. That serves no good for her (and most definitely not for the man).
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Folks ask me why my kids father and I are no longer together after spending 10 years trying to make it work.
The answer is very simple. We shouldn’t have been together from the start. He didn’t fuck up a good thing; I didn’t fuck up a good thing. Hell we didn’t HAVE a good thing. We had a mediocre thing.
I could have saved myself those 10 years had I admitted in the beginning that he and I just weren’t cut out to be together. Thing is, we never fought or argued, no cars were keyed or property harmed or destroyed. We were like good friends that accidentally had a baby together. Then 6 years later accidentally had another baby together.
I think women get the “crazy” label because they are so pressed about getting played. They don’t want to look “stupid” because they liked a guy that was only interested in getting the goodgush. So they just get extra with shit, so they don’t look bad to whomever actually may be paying attention and caring.
Oh, and about men and cheating - I think women cheat just as much as men do. I don’t think one sex can be labeled the cheater over the other.
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AkShone {May 6th, 2008 at 11:12 am}
“I think women get the “crazy” label because they are so pressed about getting played. They don’t want to look “stupid” because they liked a guy that was only interested in getting the goodgush. So they just get extra with shit, so they don’t look bad to whomever actually may be paying attention and caring.”
This is soooo true, as I’ve been finding out in my misadventures in dating (which is probably insight as to why I don’t like dating). It’s that brick wall and all the other defense mechanisms used in the initial interaction with a new woman. I understand it, but I don’t…sort of like people’s fascination with Soljah Boi (smdh).
…Now adding Goodgush to my “Great Colloquialism Terms for the Love Below”
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BigBuck {May 6th, 2008 at 11:18 am}
I think women cheat more than we do. We just get caught more. I don’t think anyone will deny that women are better at deception than Men. But the real reason I think men get caught more is because of the other woman. She gets mad or gets jealous and the shit hits the fan. Most guys that are the side guy are content in that station and won’t do anything to expose what’s going on. Even if they get mad at you for some reason, the side guy is more likely to just cut you off and find another than to react like a woman and bring attention to the cheating. Once again I am going off into another issue, so I will save the rest for whatever day we are actually talking about that.
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AkShone {May 6th, 2008 at 11:54 am}
And that ^^^^^ is why it is SO much easier for women to cheat…
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Cheryl {May 6th, 2008 at 12:16 pm}
Do you think that when women cheat it is mostly due to necessity* and than when men cheat it is mostly due to wanting newgush as opposed to the same old gush they have at home?
Or do you think its opposite or just random?
*necessity in this context meaning the needs aren’t being met or fulfilled.
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AkShone {May 6th, 2008 at 2:00 pm}
Probably most of the time it is necessity for women. I would probably go by the 80/20 rule when it comes to this as a whole.
That’s not to say that this doesn’t happen with men though.
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The Champ {May 6th, 2008 at 2:10 pm}
“I think women cheat more than we do”
i dont agree with this. i think its equal. both sexes do an equal amount of dirt
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D*stroy {May 6th, 2008 at 3:06 pm}
I think men cheat more frequently then women do. Statistically men have more sexual partners than women do. Not to mention that anatomically men are better equipped for the psychological aspect of sex. (Instead of being entered we do the entering.) women are also far more susceptible to STDs for this reason).
I do think that women “emotionally cheat” more. When women aren’t happy at home they establish new meaningful relationships (not necessarily physical) to fill the void.
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The Champ {May 6th, 2008 at 3:19 pm}
“Statistically men have more sexual partners than women do”
according to what stats? you hafta remember that sexual studies determining numbers are always effed up because we (men) tend to embellish our stats while women tend to, ummmm, “unembellish”.
i agree with everything else you said though
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D*stroy {May 6th, 2008 at 3:35 pm}
That is very true. (Oh..and that statistical refence was based on an article I read in some men’s mag which was probably conducted by the University of Phoenix. But, you didn’t have to call me out though. Haa! You gotta love it when somebody points out your bullsh*t.
Nonetheless I can only venture to believe that as a whole men have more partners than women–(but I don’t have any evidence to support that.)
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Ana B {May 6th, 2008 at 9:11 pm}
even the emotional cheaing that you said didnt exist severla blogs ago?
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Ana B {May 6th, 2008 at 9:12 pm}
that last post was for the champ
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Cheryl {May 6th, 2008 at 3:37 pm}
Nah statistically women lie more about the number of men they have backed it up on.
All these men that high numbers across the board (not this board but the board of umm life) are NOT fornicating with the same handful of ladyfolk.
Women get it on, they just don’t want you to know and think poorly of them.
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AkShone {May 6th, 2008 at 4:10 pm}
You really think it’s equal, Champ? I mean, hey I’ll be the first to admit that I know of women who did or have done dirt…hell, I may have done it with them, but equal is a large number. Are we speaking in relative terms when we say “cheating”?
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The Champ {May 6th, 2008 at 6:42 pm}
i’m speaking in sexual terms. coitus. penetration. i dont think we (men) cheat as frequently as general perception would lead you to believe, its just that the ones who do cheat do it so frequently and indiscriminately that it creates the perception that “everyone” does it.
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Ana B {May 6th, 2008 at 9:16 pm}
I think I have to agree with the champ on this one.. I know of several women friends that have stepped out of their marriage vows to romp with a man, and only know of one man (though he romped quite agressively and often). and to someone elses point the women were more successful in their deceat than the men, becuase the women’s partner kept the drama to a minimum
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Treezy F. Baby {May 6th, 2008 at 1:25 pm}
I think that’s it right there! I hear this so much from couples who have been in it for the long-haul…it was like they never took the time to make some tough hard decisions about the strength, plausibility and happiness of their relationship until the years just flew by. So sad. This is why I believe in learning from the mistakes of others. Sadly this makes me anal about making ANY mistakes at all in a relationship…I’m easing into the deep end of the pool as I grow though…reluctantly. I’m the kinda person I get a little wet with some drama and I hops out the water with a quickness!
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In my experience, men are not as vocal about relationship problems as women are. I find that a woman is going to tell her man (and possibly the whole world) what the hell is wrong & why she isn’t happy in the relationship during and after the break-up. So when the relationship is over, the woman doesn’t really walk away w/ an understanding of what problems her guy may have had with her and/or why he may not have been happy in the relationship. With that, how can a woman really know what part she played in the downfall of the relationship?
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Wise Diva {May 6th, 2008 at 11:08 am}
she can always start with, my dumb ass let that muthafu*ka into my life/world LOL.
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Panama {May 6th, 2008 at 11:18 am}
This once again presumes that unless the man tells her what’s wrong, then the onus falls solely on his shoulders. What I’m getting at is the fact that introspectively, we all know or can at least gain some perspective of what we might have done to tank a relationship. I don’t think women take anytime doing this. It’s easier to say, he stopped loving me or he wasn’t acting right.
And on a more overt level…there is stuff that people do that they know good and damn well if somebody were to do it to them they’d stay pissed. Yet, we still do it. Like call people 45 times a day. Or keep calling b/c the person didnt call back. Somehow, in relationships, we think its okay to do this.
Interestingly, if you all (women) only respond to the dumb shit that men do which justifies some behavior that could be deemed crazy…is it possible that the men not acting right is a direct function of something you all are doing?
Basically, is it a chicken and the egg thing?
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K. {May 6th, 2008 at 11:31 am}
The onus doesn’t fall solely on anyone’s shoulders. However, I’d much rather hear from the horse’s mouth what the problem is rather than speculate. It may be obvious to you and I that calling 45x/day is coo coo. But a crazy mofo? Not so much.
Moving away from the more overt things such as cheating, acting crazy, etc. What about the more complex things that lead to a relationship’s demise? Incompatibility, opposing life goals, selfishness, etc? I don’t think that men are as vocal about those types of issues in a relationship.
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panama {May 6th, 2008 at 11:36 am}
Men probably aren’t as vocal about those things b/c we don’t always see those things as clearly as you all do.
Men are simple in a lot of regards. We want you to be the way you are when we enter those relationships and stay that way. Things like opposing life goals, selfishness, and incompatibility are things that I think women will forego in the beginning b/c they like a dude. A dude usually won’t. Of course we all make bad decisions but I think women are way more likely to look past a red-flag than a man is.
So we’re probably not as vocal b/c we don’t know they exist until you decide they’re problems. If you decide to date a janitor b/c you really like how he makes you feel but down the line assume he should want to be more and he really likes his job…how’s that his fault or something he even needs to vocalize?
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K. {May 6th, 2008 at 12:05 pm}
It’s not that cut and dry. Men very well do look past red flags - but that’s beside the point.
Regardless of the reason, SOMETHING caused ya’ll to break-up. Instead of doing the passive-agressive thing (i.e. acting out when they are no longer content w/ a relationship & waiting for her to end the relationship b/c you’re too scared to pull the plug), men need to be straightforward and tell the woman what the deal is.
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The Champ {May 6th, 2008 at 2:14 pm}
“We want you to be the way you are when we enter those relationships and stay that way”
even though it really isn’t that simple, it really is. seriously.
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Deviant {May 6th, 2008 at 2:40 pm}
True.
But that leaves no room for growth…
Which may be why men settle down later in life than women.
I just had an “aha”. You’ll have to excuse me as I wrap my mind around my own insight.
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Ana B {May 6th, 2008 at 9:23 pm}
Panama, I have to agree with you “I think women are way more likely to look past a red-flag than a man is.” I believe it is due in part to the fact that we truly believe in the potential, the what could be, as someone wrote in another post “the possibility” and on our part we may do a lot of talking but not alot of listening…i.e that janitor being happy with his job, we may hear him say he’s happy but in our mind that is his way of not complaining and we will make him a doctor before this is over if it kills us, when all he really wants is to be a happy janitor.
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The Queen {May 6th, 2008 at 12:35 pm}
Yes, there are things women do to tank relationships and they know exactly what they are. There are also times when a woman has no clue what she has done wrong. If a man doesn’t vocalize his issues with his girl, she just might leave the relationship thinking it is all his fault.
8 out of 10 times (I made that number up), women tell men what their beef is. We’ll say you aren’t spending enough time with me, supporting my dreams, giving me attention, doing the things you used to do etc. Sometimes, men just don’t listen or dismiss their woman’s concerns as silly.
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Now that I think of it, I’ve never met a guy admit fault for his previous break-ups. It’s always “she was crazy” or “she didn’t trust me” or “we grew apart.”
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I type faster than I think sometimes, sheesh!
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BigBuck {May 6th, 2008 at 11:09 am}
I wish I had that problem! I have the opposite. I think so fast that by the time it comes through my fingers, it reads like I have A.D.D.!
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The sad part about this is that society is so used to painting the “Bad Man” picture that even when a guy truly is innocent in a breakup, no one will believe him. Personally I don’t care what story an ex tells, because most of the time anyone who was around us enough to care about what happened, already knew the problems. So telling your best friend that you left because I treated you bad, when she has seen how I treat you for real is stupid. Even more sad is that women will happily cast aside the things they know to be fact in order to side with their friend. Loyalty is admirable but only a true friend will call you on your bullshit and say “You know you fucked up right?” Word to Bill Duke!
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“I’ve had a chick tell me she couldn’t get into Heaven without me by her side.”
Wow, that was just scary…
The last question that I remembered reading was why? I have another question, who really likes to admit that they were wrong? (That is if they realize their role in the situation.)
Some people don’t realize their mistakes or might not acknowledge then until they take to time to evaluate themselves (as part of the healing process, but as someone above stated many people do not allow themselves time to heal so they end up skipping the reflection process…)
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Panama {May 6th, 2008 at 11:20 am}
Nobody likes to admit they were wrong, but how can you grow if you can’t even acknowledge that. I’m not even saying get a full page ad in the New York Times. I’m saying 10 years from now when you’re talking about relationships with some group of folks, cop to the fact that maybe you all could have worked harder.
And sure it goes both ways. Men do like to throw the we broke up cuz she was crazy line out there…
Everybody needs hugs.
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Monnie {May 6th, 2008 at 11:39 am}
I agree, which is why more people need to check themselves before trying to move on to the next person ( i.e. the self evaluation time.)
It takes a mature person to acknowledge the fact that they were wrong (admitting it to yourself is one of the hardest things to do)… I noticed at a young age that a lot of people to not mature, they just get old.
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SOB {May 6th, 2008 at 1:36 pm}
It’s folks pride and ego that makes them not want to acknowledge their wrongs in a relationship. Who wants to admit that they dropped the ball.
I have matured in the 10 years since me and mr. sob seperated and I will openly admit I screwed up! I was not ready for marriage, the child, the bills, the hard work. Unfortunately the women of my family always want to pin the blame on the man because a woman can never be at fault in a break-up. I tell them quickly not to talk sh!t about him because it was me who screwed it up. But you know how womenfolk are they’re like a bunch of crabs.
I to suffer from commitment/rejection-phobia. You can never pin me down, not for a date, not for a relationship…hell I won’t commit to returning a phone call.
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Monnie {May 6th, 2008 at 7:41 pm}
Why is that? I know that people have their different reasons why they are afraid to commit, but I bet that there are a lot of similarities within the sexes…
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“Fact is that men suck. I know. I am man.”
1) This statement alone plays a big role in why women take no fault in bad relationships. It’s like when you blame being late to work on the rain, you do it because it is an accepted excuse. No one will really question you.
2) Another thing is that she might blame you out loud but women are notorious for blaming themselves when things go wrong in their lives, even things they have no control over.
3) Women have delusional self images. Most guys who are assholes, know they are assholes but I’ve yet to hear a woman admit she’s a bitch and mean it seriously. So of course she was the “perfect” girlfriend and you just didn’t act right. That fits in with the relationship resume she’s created for herself.
4) How the relationship ends has a big deal with who takes the blame. Besides the two obvious ones: infidelity and domestic violence. The subtle nuances that lead to a break-up are usually the fault of both parties equally. But usually the woman has made the more visible attempt to salvage the relationship so to her, she’s exhausted her responsibility and therefore the fault lies with the man.
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The Queen {May 6th, 2008 at 12:23 pm}
You read my mind with #4. Infidelity breaks up a lot of relationships and whoever is caught being unfaithful, usually takes the blame for tanking the relationship. It’s more often guys that are caught (in my experience.)
Even if a woman takes a man back after being unfaithful, she often blames him for tanking the relationship if it ever ends. Often a woman takes a man back but hasn’t forgiven him. Then she feels justified in acting like a biotch because of her partner’s infidelity.
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Treezy F. Baby {May 6th, 2008 at 1:29 pm}
Stronge, sashe shante! Fierce! And any other phrases that Tyra and her queen cronies come up with!
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Ana B {May 6th, 2008 at 9:33 pm}
This right here “she’s exhausted her responsibility and therefore the fault lies with the man.” is what it boils down to. Because ultimately its not about who’s the biggest asshole or did the most damage, but who did the most to try to repair the damage that was done, and most often than not it is the woman because it is our nature. There are some men that will give their all or 150% to do damage control to lead the repair of the relationship but those men are like the lochness monster, or a unicorn, or black thick nose Michael Jackson (mystical creatures) that you only hear about and have never seen for yourself so you wonder if they truly exist.
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I think this entire discussion ties directly into my mantra for why so many relationships so awry so quickly.
Men are assholes and women are stupid.
And not stupid in the sense that ya’ll don’t know anything. Stupid in the sense that all the evidence about a man is right in front of your face, yet you ignore it thinking that there is some deeper reason. You go through all these complex thought processes, reading books/magazines, getting friends’ advice trying to figure out the intricacies of this man.
There are none. There NEVER are.
We are simple, simple assholes. Assholes in the sense that we are only going to do what you all allow us to get away with. Assholes in the sense that you should NEVER believe what comes out of a man’s mouth. Only trust his actions. Assholes in the sense that we know ya’ll don’t take into account our actions as much as you should, so we let our words cover up our actions. Fundamental (and highly effective) way of manipulation. Women then let the depth of his words, mixed with the assholishness of his actions, lead them to believe that there is something deeper to this man.
No. He’s just an asshole.
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D*stroy {May 6th, 2008 at 2:47 pm}
Jarod,
This sh*t is the Gospel for real! I seriously can’t believe more women don’t get this! Thanks for setting the record straight.
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Jarrrod Halsey {May 6th, 2008 at 2:50 pm}
My pleasure. What makes it even funnier is that I’ve said this numerous times, knowing that the women won’t pay attention to it. And then feel justified in the end when EVERY male/female situation fits right into what I’ve just said.
I guess I’m just an asshole.
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D*stroy {May 6th, 2008 at 3:18 pm}
LOL! I can’t tell you the number of times I have tried to tell women this. It just seems so obvious though.
And to add to your point about women not putting enough weight on men’s actions…why is it that when women have a man who is willing to give them the shirt off his back they still can’t figure out that the guy is worth keeping? He can do everything right and they still don’t show him the love that he deserves.
I have a friend who had a good man. He was loving, thoughtful and successful. They were together for three years and never were intimate. This dude was feenin’ but still stayed loyal (as far as I know) because he was sure that she was his soulemate. Would you believe that this chick dumped his @ss and got with some other n*gga (who talked a good game) and he (the new cat) ended up cheating on her with multiple women in the first few months of their relationship. AND to add insult to injury she is still with him– trying to make sh*t work. dummy.
This is obviously an extreme example but not that extreme b/c women do this stupid sh*t all the time.
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Jarrod Halsey {May 6th, 2008 at 3:33 pm}
Two reasons.
The first is that women think a man like that is too good to be true, so they hold out on him waiting for a sign that he is legit. 3 years later, they are STILL waiting for a sign because they are too blind to see what is directly in front of them. They get bored then cheat.
Sigh…
Second reason, if she believed he was true, she thought he was a punk. Some women (see: MOST women) see a man that is willing to give her everything she wants as a man who has no spine. A man who can be walked over and told what to do. Regardless of how strong his personality may be otherwise. So, she gets bored, and 3 years later they get bored and then cheat.
Do we see a pattern here?
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D*stroy {May 6th, 2008 at 3:42 pm}
This goes back to the other day’s discussion. In general, nice guys finish last.
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K. {May 6th, 2008 at 3:35 pm}
Hilarious. The guy who gets played by some silly broad = “good guy who didn’t get the love that he deserved.” The woman who gets played by some azzhole = “stupid.”
Riiigggghhhttt.
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D*stroy {May 6th, 2008 at 3:51 pm}
LMAO! I can see how one might take issue with that.
But you have to look at the example more carefully. The woman was stupid because she left a good guy for a hood n*gga with game. And ultimately, she was stung by universal justice. Moral of the story: the grass is always greener on the other side. OR, if you have the good fortune of finding a good motherf’in man…keep his @ss, don’t mistreat his @ss!
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Deviant {May 6th, 2008 at 4:48 pm}
Define “a good man”.
Just cause a dude isn’t cracking a chick over the head or cheating on her, does not a good man make. I take issue with people throwing that phrase around like it means something.
Every man thinks he’s “a good man” even the ones who know they aren’t…
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D*stroy {May 6th, 2008 at 5:06 pm}
Deviant,
Again, I completely agree with you about the cavalier use of the phrase “good man.”
I would define a good man as: honest, loving, loyal, thoughtful, progressive, selfless and humble. This is my quick list but you get the point.
I think any man that exhibits the majority of these qualities should be treated accordingly. (this assumes that his shortcomings do not grossly overshadow his strengths).
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K. {May 6th, 2008 at 3:59 pm}
If one takes that same story and switches the genders, there would be no “oh she was a good woman he should’ve held on” or “nice girls finish last” - yall would’ve written her off as stupid, period.
It’s like you’re presuming that the chick in your story is inherently a good woman. Please. A cheating, lying, manipulative woman ain’t a good woman and is probably better suited for the trash she seems to be so attracted to.
Perhaps you should be preaching to men about actions vs. words in a relationship as much as you do women.
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Jarrod Halsey {May 6th, 2008 at 4:09 pm}
“If one takes that same story and switches the genders, there would be no “oh she was a good woman he should’ve held on” or “nice girls finish last” - yall would’ve written her off as stupid, period.”
That’s your assumption. That nigga is DEFINITELY stupid. So is anyone else who stays in a relationship for 3 years, wants to have sex and doesn’t get it. We’re meaning “good” as “loyal” But you can be loyal AND stupid.
Just look at dogs.
“Perhaps you should be preaching to men about actions vs. words in a relationship as much as you do women.”
Why the HELL would I want to create more competition?
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D*stroy {May 6th, 2008 at 4:30 pm}
1ST–It is no presumption. It is my example based on my longstanding friend’s experience. I’ve known her for a while (making me the best person to assess her inherent goodness) and based on the information she gave me she didn’t lie or cheat. She simply left the relationship for someone else.
2nd–I hardly consider a sidebar between two men to be “preaching” to women.
3rd–regarding this statement: ‘there would be no “oh she was a good woman he should’ve held on” or “nice girls finish last” - yall would’ve written her off as stupid, period’
That is a very far-fetched, unfounded and poor ASSUMPTION. (Pretty ironic considering the fact that you just called me presumptuos.) In any case, my comment was in response to Jarrod’s point regarding WOMEN listening to words over actions…hence the example of a WOMAN who listened to words over actions. In reality if the roles were reversed I would have equal sympathy for her as I did for the good guy. I think that anyone who cares deeply for their partner and is trying to make them happy deserves reciprocity.
Since you offered me a closing pearl of wisdom, I’ll do the same…
Perhaps you should read more carefully, next time. Or simply don’t allow your emotions, surrounding an issue, to cloud your reading comprehension.
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K. {May 6th, 2008 at 4:33 pm}
You danced around the point. Like I said, you wouldn’t (and didn’t) call him stupid for getting played, you called him out for not getting any azz. It’s amazing to me that women are always called out for making poor choices in men while men REFUSE to take responsibility for their poor choices in women. Too many of yall would rather hide behind that tired azz cliched “nice guys finish last” vs. examining the women you choose to be “nice” to from go. You know, actions vs. words.
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K. {May 6th, 2008 at 4:38 pm}
My previous comment was for Jarrod.
@ D*stroy - miss me with the weak personal attacks. You stated “nice guys finish” last and that’s partly where my comment came from so it was very much relevant.
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D*stroy {May 6th, 2008 at 4:56 pm}
K. You aren’t making any sense and your still not reading carefully. I did not say that your point wasn’t relevant. I did say that it was a poor and unfounded assumption because in actuality I would consider a woman in the same predicament to be deserving of sympathy or the cliche that “nice girls finish last.”
But let’s not focus on this one aspect of your 3 part comment…the entire thing off. (please see my previous comment for further explanation)
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K. {May 6th, 2008 at 5:58 pm}
Go back and reread the entire exchange b/c clearly *you’re* the only one who is confused.
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Deviant {May 6th, 2008 at 4:37 pm}
“He can do everything right and they still don’t show him the love that he deserves.”
-He obviously wasn’t doing everything right.
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D*stroy {May 6th, 2008 at 4:59 pm}
This is what I consider a logical response.
And yes, he obviously wasn’t doing everything right. I just wonder if his shortcomings were so severe that they called for dismissal after 3 years of loyal service.
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Deviant {May 6th, 2008 at 5:17 pm}
“I just wonder if his shortcomings were so severe that they called for dismissal after 3 years of loyal service”
D*
You make it sound like he got fired from a job.
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D*stroy {May 6th, 2008 at 5:20 pm}
Yeah. He may as well have. He was putting in overtime to win her hand in marriage (house, ring, flowers, etc). Poor bastard got a pink-slip instead.
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Jarrod Halsey {May 6th, 2008 at 6:23 pm}
D&D, what’s you guys info? I wanna get at ya’ll behind the scenes.
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Deviant {May 6th, 2008 at 11:08 pm}
mindofadeviant@gmail.com
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Ana B {May 6th, 2008 at 9:44 pm}
Jarrod this is the 2nd time I hear this, “you should NEVER believe what comes out of a man’s mouth. Only trust his actions” from a man. Im paying closer attention
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Relationships exist around mutual respect. I don’t want to hear any bullshit about men being prone to cheat and women not calling themselves out on their own baggage. Give respect, get respect, and the relationship will have a chance of being healthy.
Its almost like by saying men are assholes and shit of the sorts that it gives an excuse to cut up. No you cannot stereotype all men and no you cannot stereotype all women. Being an adult is all about knowing what your weaknesses are and growing from them…because you are working towards CHANGE….and for the better. If you are prone to cheat or act a fool in general, then maybe you need to invest that time back into yourself opposed to coupling up with another human being.
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K. {May 6th, 2008 at 1:11 pm}
Word.
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The Champ {May 6th, 2008 at 2:16 pm}
dont encourage her
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Panama, you lie! No woman said that to you. I refuse to believe it. Any woman who has seen 30% of any given Lifetime movie knows saying shyt like that will make the object of affection start investigating how easy it is to get an order of protection. I feel like her allegedly saying that, meant she was planning to pull a murder suicide on that ass.
Oh and men are idiots and women are crazy. Game over.
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panamanian devil {May 6th, 2008 at 1:53 pm}
Hostess - I’m creative, but I’m not that creative.
That actually happened.
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wow you need to run from both the chic who said she cant get into heaven with out you and the one who said it was sweet… thats far beyond beserk. Thats some of that shit that will make you erick sermon and jump out a window
I tend to agree with your observation that women do not take responsibility for their faults in a relationship, its usually because they love being right. Most men have grown up being told they are wrond all the time so we just accept it even if we think we are right, where as most women will just keep insisting they are right even when they don’t believe they are.
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