For many of us, the concept of chivalry died years ago, neglected so long that it ended up gaunt, emaciated, and barely recognizable, starving to death outside of a KFC because no one could spare him the big piece of chicken.
Well, the champ is here to say that we’re wrong. Chivalry isn’t dead or even dying…just in need of a bit of a makeover. An update. A reboot. A few minor tweaks and adjustments to help it combat the depraved mindsets attempting to eradicate it.
Without further ado, here’s a partial version of the champs simple guide to 21st century chivalry…what it entails and encompasses and how to make sure it always gets that elusive big piece.
1. If a woman is within 15-20 feet and approaching a door at the same time a man is, the man must always attempt to open it and let her walk through first, even if he’s coming from an awkward angle. If the women is within 20-40 feet and walking at a pace which insures that she’ll be at the same door he’s about to enter within 7-10 seconds, he can walk through the door first, but he must hold the door for her.
This is pretty non-negotiable. Plus, as an added bonus, there’s no better way of getting a really, really good clear booty peek…women always seem to switch and jiggle the hips a little extra whenever a door’s being held open for them. I think it’s some form of a primitive mating mechanism actually, with an evolutionary correlation between held doors, jiggled hips, and ovaries, but I really have no idea.
***Also, even though the man isn’t holding the door just so the woman can say “thanks” , the man does reserve the right to mutter “bitch” “witch” under his breath if the act isn’t acknowledged at all.***
2. A man can never use too many “pleases”….except in the bedroom, where it should be given the condiment treatment: only used with light sprinkles
The bedroom in itself is a paradox where the common rules of chivalry don’t exist. For instance, saying “please” during a sexual act is a bit tricky because “please” accompanies a request. Depending on his disposition, body language, and penis size, “please” could be interpreted as “a playful request lightening the mood”, “a considerate lover”, or “an annoyingly desperate dude who should just stfu and be happy that his cornball ass is getting some .
There’s basically no in-between, no gray area with this, exactly why he needs to be absolutely sure about the nature of their sexual relationship before he continues with the “pleases”. Usually in these situations, a slight nudge or forceful grab of the neck eye contact is all that’s needed to get his point across, whatever it happens to be.
3. Men should always pay for the first three dates
It doesn’t matter if the guy’s a grad student working at Starbucks dating a newly hired cpa making 80k a year, if they’re dating, the man should always cover at least the first three dates. This is a universal rule that actually benefits both parties. If she’s really into him, she won’t mind the fact that the first couple of dates have been at Borders, the cheese dog stand at the arts festival, and the sample soup counter at giant eagle. If she’s feeling him, but does mind the limited spending dates, then thats all the proof he needs that she’s an evil, money grubbing hobbyhorse not the chick for him. Its that simple. If things are going well, by number four she should offer to pay or at least provide the setting and the man should accept her offer.
lastly…
4. Don’t bullsh-t the chivalry Gods.
men, don’t break your neck to open doors for every Esther Baxter or Zoe Saldana you see but refuse to give up your seat for the slightly homely chick with the eclectic teeth on the train carrying 90 textbooks
on the same token, women should always acknowledge a chivarious act. It could be a smile or a “thank you” or a slight head nod or head an “accidental” cleavage peak…anything as long as it lets the guy know that his efforts haven’t been in vain. If you see a guy doing the doorstop thing for you, the very least you can do is make an effort to sped up your walk so it doesn’t seem like he’s standing there waiting for the seasons to change in the time it takes your inconsiderate ass to get to the door.
there you go, young grasshoppers. go on now and make the champ proud
—the champ
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{ 26 comments… read them below or add one }
LOL. THANK YOU FOR THIS POST. These are your basic chivalrous acts that need to be applied by all men. I also like men to carry my heavy bags or unload my car, but I guess this day and age that’s icing on the cake, eh?
While I may disagree with the first three dates (I’d say all dates, but that doesn’t mean I won’t offer), at least 3 is a good rule of thumb. By then I will have figured out if I like you or not to keep going on dates with you.
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The Champ {April 28th, 2008 at 7:57 am}
“I’d say all dates”
all dates?? damn, lol
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Deviant {April 28th, 2008 at 10:01 am}
Right…………
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Liz {April 28th, 2008 at 10:09 am}
*sigh* nobody asked the peanut gallery!!
YES, ALL DATES. And don’t look at me funny if I happen to like the expensive dish either. Not sayin I go for it all the time, or even most times, but I shouldn’t sense a grimace from you based upon what I order.
Don’t blame me, blame my Dad. This was how I was raised.
Honestly, if you can’t afford to pay for us both, then you have no business asking me out to go anywhere with you. Likewise, if you don’t dress the part (nicely), and act the part (chivalrous), then don’t expect me to be very interested in you, romantically. We’re just buddies, at that point. Should I grip you up at the end of the date?
No, I am not a gold digger, but presentation and execution are important.
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Deviant {April 28th, 2008 at 10:22 am}
Stop trying to put that off on your Daddy.
You’re a grown-a** woman and I’m sure you do plenty of things that Daddy DID NOT teach you! LMAO…
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Liz {April 28th, 2008 at 10:29 am}
Uhh, I believe the whole point of this post is how people were raised and how traditions of social interaction have been passed down between generations. But yes, clearly some have missed the memo about what chivalry is, and when and how to use it.
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Deviant {April 28th, 2008 at 10:33 am}
And clearly some have missed the humor.
The Champ {April 28th, 2008 at 10:42 am}
***getting popcorn***
Deviant {April 28th, 2008 at 10:53 am}
Are you secretly wishing for little t-shirts and rain too?
The Champ {April 28th, 2008 at 10:59 am}
that would be nice, as well as a slight breeze, a camcorder, and a giant watermelon (don’t ask)
The Champ {April 28th, 2008 at 10:49 am}
thing is, lizzzzzz, after a certain point i think there has to be some type of concrete reciprocation…a home-cooked meal, something that lets the guy know that he’s not a walking, talking dollar sign in her eyes.
i do agree that men should spring for the majority of the outings, but i think you should throw us a bone every now and then too (pun and double entendre intended)
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ladyb {May 2nd, 2008 at 9:53 am}
liz, i agree. he should expect to pay for all the dates. eventually, i’ll start offering to pay and cooking. those are the rules.
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(*smiles*)
I always try to pay on the thirdish date, but he should still attempt.
lol @ eclectic teeth.
I think I do add a hip wiggle when people hold doors open for me. Huh… never thought about that. Please be sure to erase the “I can’t wait till you pass me by” look from your eyes, and you might want to refrain from running your tongue across your teeth as I pass you. then you’ll get nothing but a tight smile and a tighter walk away. When I gather from body language that he’s opening the door for me just because it’s in him to do so, I might even turn my body towards him as I pass. Keep that in mind, fellas.
And Liz, I’m from NY LOL. I am letting NOBODY near my bags or my car. But I guess anywhere outside of here, it’s okay… I’m just jaded
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Liz {April 28th, 2008 at 12:55 am}
Haha, makes sense about the bags. I don’t let every guy do it, but if I’m hanging out with a guy (maybe not technically a date?) I think it’s nice when they offer to carry my bags or something.
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Deviant {April 28th, 2008 at 9:37 am}
BX in the house!
I agree Liz. I think guys would get a lot further if they “at least offer” to do a lot of the things mentioned. It just shows how considerate you are.
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I agree with all three as well. What about giving up your seat on the train or bus? Seems like not many men will get up even when they see an elderly lady getting on a crowded bus.
Now something like that would make me give a brotha a second look if he did that.
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The Champ {April 28th, 2008 at 8:08 am}
seat etiquette is covered in the extended version, which i didn’t initially include (as well as a few others) because we try to keep our entries here under a certain word count.
but yeah, on a crowded bus, a man should give his seat up to…
the elderly or physically infirmed
any woman who looks to be over 18. (sorry, but a teenager can freakin stand. she hasnt earned the right to sit down yet)
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Suga&Spice {April 28th, 2008 at 8:48 am}
Dont leave pregnant women off of that list. I have seen dudes in my doctors office sit while pregnant women stand. It blew my mind that I had to give this chick my seat before one of them got up offered me theirs
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aja {April 28th, 2008 at 7:23 pm}
Oh yeah! When I was pregnant, I saw a man all sprawled out in the chair with his legs extended..and when this pregnant lady tried to get by him..he looked all annoyed like she was bothering him? Lawds…what is this world coming to??
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The Champ {April 28th, 2008 at 9:10 pm}
we blame this on jim jones. we blame everything on jim jones
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yay for chilvalry! and i would add…
…open my car door
…allow me to always order first at a restaurant
…walk on the side closest to the street
…offer to help when you see a woman struggling with something–like on a plane with putting her bag overhead.
…offering a seat–mostly for older women. but i hate when it’s crowded and the men just stay seated and ignore granny.
that’s all i can think of at the moment
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Suga&Spice {April 28th, 2008 at 8:45 am}
totally agree with all the additions. I once dated a guy whose dad had taught him chilvalry from birth. I loved it. In 2 years 1. not once was I allowed to pay for a date, 2. not only did i always order first but he would never eat until my food came and I was satisfied with it. 3. I wasnt allowed to cook for him and when I asked him why he said ‘you are not my wife, we are dating you have no business cooking for me. I am courting you.’
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Deviant {April 28th, 2008 at 9:34 am}
Wow.
Yeah, no. I doubt that you are gonna run into many guys like the one you just described. Especially that last part about not being “allowed” cooking for him.
I can’t see anyone turning down a home-cooked meal unless your skills in the kitchen were questionable (which I’m not suggesting was the case here) but it just seems really odd.
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Suga&Spice {April 28th, 2008 at 9:54 am}
yeah i used to get real offended because he just used to find reasons for us to go out and or order in and then when I snapped on him that is when he explained it to me. Said that is just how his father raised him. Heck when he spent the night he wouldnt even fall asleep before me.
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Deviant {April 28th, 2008 at 9:58 am}
You didn’t snap on him did you? Lol.
“Heck when he spent the night he wouldnt even fall asleep before me.”
Now that’s new.
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Jess {April 28th, 2008 at 6:55 pm}
THAT shit is sweet. I really have to say. 2 snorers did that for me because I’m really mean when I don’t get my sleep.
Ana B {April 28th, 2008 at 10:12 am}
one of my girls has 13 and 9 year old boys, she and her husband have been training them in the art of chivalry for as long as I can remember. We recently hung out and I witnessed first hand how these young men opened doors, carried packages, paid appropriate compliments ( you get teh picture), not only to me and some of their older “aunties” they haven’t seen in a couple of years, but some of girls their own age. I was quite impressed to say the least. It was very refreshing
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The Champ {April 28th, 2008 at 10:52 am}
“In 2 years 1. not once was I allowed to pay for a date, 2. not only did i always order first but he would never eat until my food came and I was satisfied with it. 3. I wasnt allowed to cook for him and when I asked him why he said ‘you are not my wife, we are dating you have no business cooking for me. I am courting you”
so what happened, if you don’t mind me asking?
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Suga&Spice {April 28th, 2008 at 12:05 pm}
During those 2 years we dated(never officially committed to a relationship) I was young and still had an intense fear of committment.So when I felt we were reaching the dating threshold, I pushed for the commitment, knowing he would pull back (because I knew certain things he felt a man should take the lead and this was one of them) So ultimately I found a way to get out of it without being the bad guy. It was self-sabotage, but I was young and dumb.
We are still cool now and I finally confessed to him why I did what I did, he called me a nutcase, said ’see that is waht happens when you try to be the man and the woamn in a relationsip’ and we laughed about it.
Plus the sex became a little boring, repetative and mundane.
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The Champ {April 28th, 2008 at 1:20 pm}
after seeing that you “dated” for two years (wow), along with the other things you mentioned, are you sure ole boy wasn’t obsessive complusive instead of just stringently chivalrous?
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Suga&Spice {April 28th, 2008 at 1:42 pm}
Lol. it might have been a weird combination of the two. But he doesnt see those things as stringently chilvalrous. It is just who he is. He had an ole school dad who showed him early on what he thought it meant to be a gentleman, and he never swayed from that.
And he had this things though, the boy can cuss up a strom!
Deviant {April 28th, 2008 at 9:35 am}
“…walk on the side closest to the street”
Now that’s old school. I love it. My dad always does that.
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Jess {April 28th, 2008 at 12:09 pm}
Bah, sometimes that bothers me. Ever walk a zigzag path to a destination because buildings were in the way? It’s like swing dancing.
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Liz {April 28th, 2008 at 10:11 am}
Yup yup. All the things my dad does for me and for every woman. I wouldn’t expect anything less. I don’t understand why men don’t get it. It’s not that hard to be a gentleman, geez.
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D*stroy {April 28th, 2008 at 11:33 am}
Did you just say “yup, yup” on some New Jack Swing sh*t?! LOL I haven’t hear (seen) that in ages.
I was picturing Teddy Riley at his computer.
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Deviant {April 28th, 2008 at 1:53 pm}
Check baby, check baby, 1-2-3!…
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Panamanian Devil {April 28th, 2008 at 1:54 pm}
Ya know…it’s not hard to be a gentlemen until everybody’s baggage gets thrown into the picture. I’ve dated breezy’s that expected me to do fluff their pillow to show that I cared. I’ve also dated briscoes who were on some, I can do it myself non-sense b/c they weren’t finna owe no man.
I blame Jim Jones for the death of chivalrous behavior. Him and Adebisi from Oz.
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Ana B {April 28th, 2008 at 8:35 pm}
Adebisi form Oz what did he do?
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The Champ {April 28th, 2008 at 9:11 pm}
raped bodie
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I’m all for chivalry, especially as you said, Champ, when it’s acknowledged and appreciated. I can’t stand when I open the car door for a female and she doesn’t give the appropriate reach-over to open my door for me as well.
I can also agree with the paying for the first three dates thing, but yeah, all of those dates are NOT gonna be at the most exquisite steakhouse in the city. Plus, there’s nothing wrong if one of those dates consist of her cooking for me or us cooking together. That can actually be very fun (if you can trust that the person isn’t a psychopathic stalker).
Also, I don’t mind treating on a date at all, but I do find it attractive when a lady offers to cover the gratuity. I usually decline, but the offer goes a long way to me.
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Sister Toldja {April 28th, 2008 at 9:50 am}
Um, I don’t think we are cooking together in the first three dates. I’m not coming over/inviting you over until AFTER three dates. If I come over or bring you over before that point, chances are I have decided we don’t have a future and/or I just want to smash, just be your friend, watch your cable, drink your liquor and/or smoke your herb.
Yes, girls do it too.
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Liz {April 28th, 2008 at 10:22 am}
I agree. Seeing the inside of my home and getting cooked for is jumping the gun within the first three dates.
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The Champ {April 28th, 2008 at 10:54 am}
i said “after” the first three dates, not during
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Sister Toldja {April 28th, 2008 at 11:48 am}
I know, but Monk said otherwise! *Snaps fingers* Keep up buddy, keep up!
I will co-sign that the three dates can be low-budge….within reason. If the grad student takes me to Starbucks, then the free concert at the park, then finally to another coffee shop for date three…great! If the guy making 80K takes me to those things, I might get a little concerned. Is he a cheapskate? Am I the chick he doesn’t deem worthy of a nice restaraunt? Or is he really giving ME, earth angel that I am, the gold-digger test? Or, worse, is he one of those guys who is soooo obsessed with chicks who are digging for gold that he treats all women like golddiggers until proven otherwise?
I would want for the guy who made a little more to, at the very least, be more creative in his cheap dates as to distract me from the fact that he wants to make sure I am not a “greedy hobbyhorse”. He’s gotta find some cool cheap/low budget cultural events or something. Take me to the bookstore or something. Just don’t be wack!
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The Champ {April 28th, 2008 at 1:21 pm}
i’m just happy i got someone else to use “hobbyhorse” in a sentence
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Panamanian Devil {April 28th, 2008 at 1:57 pm}
“Am I the chick he doesn’t deem worthy of a nice restaraunt? Or is he really giving ME, earth angel that I am, the gold-digger test? Or, worse, is he one of those guys who is soooo obsessed with chicks who are digging for gold that he treats all women like golddiggers until proven otherwise?”
See, all of that thinking right there is why chivalry got murdered in Hyattsville, MD. Just cuz he makes 80K doesnt mean he wants to go blow 200 bucks on dinner. Truly, I don’t even see a reason to do so. Maybe I’m a cheap bastard but y’all know when you go to fancy restaurants you get small ass portoins for a 35 dollar plate. It actually pisses me off. Fuck the presentation if it takes me 2 bites to eat my entree. We can just go to Five Guys and get a bag of small fries and eat for the next two months.
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Sister Toldja {April 28th, 2008 at 2:11 pm}
200 dollars? Sheeeit, two people at the Olive Garden is like $50 bones, and I would be happy as a clam and be like “gurl, he spent $50 on me! He nice!”
Seriosuly, when I say nice restauaunt, I am thinking $15 a plate or so. Actually, I wasn’t even thinking of a specific price point. Even if it is cheap spot, just the act of taking me somewhere nice for a nice meal.
$200??? I am blown! And obviously dating the wrong men!
I was referring to the dude who will do the coffee shop or “let’s go have a drink” move.
The Champ {April 28th, 2008 at 9:14 pm}
when you factor in the meal, plus the tip, plus gas money (or cab fare), plus a drink or two afterwards, the total bill from the night can easily exceed 100 bucks. i think women underestimate how much money is spent by us
Great list. Three dates is a good starting point. I’d say that after about 3-4 dates (assuming these have taken place over the span of 2-3 weeks) if she hasn’t invited you over for dinner she probably isn’t feeling you like that. Or maybe that’s just me, lol.
I’ll never forget the time I went to the movies w/ someone & he actually opened the door at the foyer, walked inside, and let the door hit his back. I stood outside for a second in shock and he didn’t even look behind until he went through the second set of doors to even notice that I was standing outside. He was 26 yrs old and grew up w/ both parents in the home so there’s really no excuse for that.
A lot of dudes don’t think that stuff is a big deal - but it is. I wouldn’t feel safe with a man who would walk into a building w/ me and not even think to make sure I got in there safely.
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Deviant {April 28th, 2008 at 10:01 am}
“I’ll never forget the time I went to the movies w/ someone & he actually opened the door at the foyer, walked inside, and let the door hit his back. I stood outside for a second in shock and he didn’t even look behind until he went through the second set of doors to even notice that I was standing outside.”
See something like that screams “selfishness” to me. He sounds like he’d be a bad lay.
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The Champ {April 28th, 2008 at 1:23 pm}
you know whats funny…i’ve heard women say the exact opposite. that overly chivalrous guys have to be in order to overcompensate for something else.
moral of the story: never listen to pittsburgh women
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Jess {April 28th, 2008 at 6:57 pm}
again. There is no standard dick theory. let it go, it will always be a mystery. Some men with huge dongs will mistreat a girl because he just doesn’t care; some men with tiny dings will mistreat a girl because he hates that he pees on his balls.
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itnoshorts {April 29th, 2008 at 12:28 pm}
pees on his balls….lmao
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Panama, did you get sick of people inquiring as to if you were a member of the DeBarge family (re: removing the Eazy E picture, which made it look like you had long, lustrious locks)?
I love this list! I am also a fan of gentlement who immediately go to help me with large, cumbersome items. I may not always need/want the help, but I verily appreciate the offer. Also, if I drive home alone from a date, you should text or call to make sure I made it in safe. That’s always nice.
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panama {April 28th, 2008 at 10:05 am}
LMAO.
Nobody ever asked me if I was a member of the Debarge family though I’ve had a few folks inquire as to whether or not that was really me.
I just changed it b/c I’m still gainfully employed and there’s no need to tempt the employment gods and get fired for blogging.
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Liz {April 28th, 2008 at 10:24 am}
Now that she brings it up, you were lookin kinda El DeBarge in that last pic, homie. I didn’t wanna be the one to tell you because what are best friends for? LOLOL.
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Panamanian Devil {April 28th, 2008 at 2:00 pm}
I’m mad I looked like El Debarge when I was intentionally trying to be Eazy E.
It hurts when they boo.
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Sister Toldja {April 28th, 2008 at 10:28 am}
Are you saying the Champ aint got no job?
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The Champ {April 28th, 2008 at 10:56 am}
lol…sister toldja has jokes, i see.
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Sister Toldja {April 28th, 2008 at 1:02 pm}
I do, I do.
That was definitely the Tommy from Martin response though….
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BlackL7 {April 28th, 2008 at 7:21 pm}
Ha. I actually thought he looked like a cute Polynesian Black Panther, because it looked like he had on a beret. lol
I love the list, Champ. There should be more dudes like you. Don’t get a big head, though lol.
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The Champ {April 28th, 2008 at 9:24 pm}
“Don’t get a big head”
its a bit late for that. i weigh 210 pounds, and my head is probably 173 of that, lol. i cant help it. its genetics and shit
thanks though
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I’m liking what I’m hearing so far except that first comment about the man paying for every date. That’s just not realistic.
I think the three-date rule is a keeper. Even though I
am not much of a daterdon’t date.I think it’s even more attractive when a man is chivalrous to a women he doesn’t know in the presence of the lady he’s with (provided said woman is not with a man herself).
ie. holding the door after he’s held it for his “date”, offer to help elderly/pregnant women who are obviously struggling with their bags and such.
And as some of you mentioned before, able-bodied men who won’t offer to give up their seats in/on a crowded room, bus or train should be looked at sideways.
But most importantly, women should acknowledge these acts of kindness with a “Thank you” AND a smile (provided your mouth is not full of food, which would just be bad manners). Recognize that “he didn’t have to” and show him that you appreciate it.
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The Champ {April 28th, 2008 at 1:25 pm}
“I’m liking what I’m hearing so far except that first comment about the man paying for every date. That’s just not realistic.”
***hoping lizzzzzzzzzz is taking notes***
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I dunno about paying for the first 3 dates. 2 definitely. But I think there’s something slightly shady about a person (even on a friendship/person-to-person level) who lets someone pay for them twice and not even think to return the favor by the 3rd time. Never know when you’ll just be taken for a ride, pay for three dates, and then nothing comes of it. And besides, if she likes your company that much, on some level she should understand nothing is free. Maybe that’s just me.
And for my NYCer’s, don’t forget to let the lady go through the turnstyle first. Just in case she needs to refill her Metrocard, you won’t be on the other side while she has to take her money out in a train station, especially at night.
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The Champ {April 28th, 2008 at 1:29 pm}
you know, after reading yours, as well as other comments made by people living in the general nyc metropolitan area, i’m beginning to think that you all need to have your own separate list, ie “for the first three months, men should always be the ones to kill the rat”, or “men should always let women in cabs first, unless her name is wendy williams, in which case men are obligated to shove her in front of the cab”, etc, etc
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The Queen {April 28th, 2008 at 2:21 pm}
Add to that list -
When dating in NYC, the man should hail the cab on dates, unless he is Black(because the cab won’t stop)
In that case, woman is required to show a bit of leg. Then and only then will the cab stop in 3.3 seconds.
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Jess {April 28th, 2008 at 5:53 pm}
This has happened. I cosign.
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Sister Toldja {April 28th, 2008 at 5:34 pm}
NY is red hot, bitches.
Actually, not so much. Folks act like NYC residency gives them licence to be an ass! Especially the menfolk.
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Jess {April 28th, 2008 at 5:55 pm}
It does, we have to be assholes, you can’t trust anybody in big cities
One day on vacation outside of NYC, I suddenly found myself turned off by every male I encountered. Something was missing, and I honestly think it could have been that asshole I look for in every man I date. It was nowhere to be found. I don’t like being the bigger asshole in the relationship.
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Chivarly isn’t dead in the south–thank goodness. Most men I encounter are doing 1 thru 3.
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Panamanian Devil {April 28th, 2008 at 2:04 pm}
Poppin’ Southern Collar.
Westside of the A.
However, I will say that some cats down South are chivalrous in nature, but we tend to be on some outwardly offended, smack-a-hoe stuff when chicks act up.
I aint the only cat who went to Club 559 in Atlanta before it burned down (RIP) and saw a dude open the door for a chick, then kick her UP the stairs when looked like he should have opened the door and didn’t say thanks.
I miss Club 559.
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Suga&Spice {April 28th, 2008 at 3:05 pm}
Ahhhhh I still remember my first experience at the 559. This dude was so drunk while grinding with my homegirl that he pulled it out on the sly and let one go on the back of her pants. LOLOL!
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Jess {April 28th, 2008 at 5:56 pm}
This happened to my friend on the train
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D*stroy {April 29th, 2008 at 8:49 am}
WHAT!! How!?!?
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Jess {April 29th, 2008 at 3:47 pm}
He was standing behind her while she was standing on the train dozing off.. she felt some movement but didnt think much of it… when she got off the train someone tapped her on the shoulder and told her that she might want to wash off her sweater. We stil can’t figure out how he did it during rush hour; our theories are 1) it was so crowded that nobody really knew (he was pressed up against the door and she was standing in front of him) and 2) people did see, but didnt say anything, because we’re assholes. We were amazed. She threw out the sweater, but we wanted to hang it up in a frame
tits mcgee {April 28th, 2008 at 2:51 pm}
having lived in the dirty for two years now I can co-sign on this one. men down here do appear to be a bit more intrisically chilvarous. you still have a handful of men who love to slap a hoe every now and then but generally speaking men here are extremely courteous.
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Panama, don’t let these guys get you down b/c…
“I know a place where we can dance the whole night away
underneath the electric stars
Just come with me and we can shake your blues right away
You’ll be doin fine once the music starts…Ohhh!
To the beat of the rhythm of the night”
Anyway, here are some of my thoughts on chivalry. I have broken them into two categories bad chivalry and good chivalry. (because I couldn’t think of a smart way to designate them).
Bad chivalry
I really hate the “open-the-car-door” rule. I think it is ok to open the car door for the first couple of dates but after that…just get in the g*dd*amned car wit’ your lazy @ss! I may be driving, but you’re not Miss Daisy.
Oh, here’s another one I hate… a woman who walks up to a door, stops and waits for me to open it for her (irrespective of my distance from her and the door). Who the f*** do you think you are?!
This may be a rule that is only applicable to New York transit system…If you’re an able bodied lady over the age of 12 and under the age of 50…don’t expect to get my seat, sucka. That’s just how we play it in NY.
Here’s a rule of chivalry that has to go…Guys, if you are in the club, never ask a woman “may I have this dance?” (or any other revised version). It’s a lose/lose situation. Here’s why: you look lame if she accepts and you look even more lame if she declines. Just gently slide up to her, feel out the situation—if she’s feeling you then take charge. NOTE: A rear approach may end far more disastrously than a frontal approach)
Good Chivalry
Here’s a keeper…A man should always offer his coat/jacket/sweater when a woman is cold. A woman’s comfort should always come first.
If you are a student, you should carry a female classmate’s books (assuming you’re trying to get at her).
*If a man is dialoguing with a lady in a club, lounge or bar setting he should offer to buy a drink for her. *(if she’s worth it)
I have always wanted to see a man (not me though) throw his jacket over a puddle and allow a lady to walk on it. Just saying.
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Anechoic {April 28th, 2008 at 11:31 am}
“I really hate the “open-the-car-door” rule.”
When it’s my car, I *always* open the car door for the female… not so much out of chivalry, but because I don’t want the woman slamming the door against the wall/adjacent car when opening it, or slamming it when closing it. What can I say, I love my car.
Rental car or some one else’s car? Fuck it.
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D*stroy {April 28th, 2008 at 11:37 am}
LMAO! That is hilarious! There is nothing like having your car door slammed by someone you can’t chop in the neck.
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Sister Toldja {April 28th, 2008 at 1:09 pm}
I can co-sign on the car door. You don’t have to open it for me, I won’t really trip on that because it seems like a waste of time for me to wait for you to do that. However, I do have a 55-year old daddy who still does and I appreciate it every time.
The not letting women sit down on the bus/train shit is wack! I live in NYC too and while I don’t trip much if a young man won’t let me sit, a 25 year old man should let a 40 year old woman sit….even if he doesn’t want to fuck her. This, my friend, is bitchassedness (no Diddy) disguised as NYC culture. Livining in the Apple is not an excuse to be an ass and I am tired of people using it as such.
As far as the dance in the club thing, while “may I have this dance” may sound corny, I would reccomend finding a cool way to make the request? There is nothing I hate more than getting grinded on by a man I don’t want to dance with any having to find a nice way to hop off.
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D*stroy {April 28th, 2008 at 1:31 pm}
I kinda feel you on the NY train thing. But essentially what you area suggesting, is that no young able-bodied man should sit on the train during peak hours. The reality is that everyone is tired and nobody wants to stand. So with that said, 40 is just too young to receive old lady treatment.
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The Champ {April 28th, 2008 at 1:31 pm}
“If you are a student, you should carry a female classmate’s books (assuming you’re trying to get at her).”
really?
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D*stroy {April 28th, 2008 at 1:57 pm}
Yeah. I guess my list of chivalrous behavior acts more as a “How to impress” guide, not a list of genuine behavior that should be shown to all women. When I was in college my girlfriend (now wife) always loved when I carried her books while walking her to class. To me this seemed super-old school but it brought us back to a time when courting was far more innocent.
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Panamanian Devil {April 28th, 2008 at 2:05 pm}
Shit, in todays day and age of 50 pound books, she’s on her own Jack.
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Deviant {April 28th, 2008 at 2:17 pm}
Now you know the women who actually carry their books around do not get play on the college campus like that…
Backpacks do not set off the ‘fit!
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2Degreez {April 28th, 2008 at 3:42 pm}
I know this is random, but when I was in college, girls wore bookbags no matter what outfit they had on. Have you ever seen someone in a tube dress, heels, with a Jansport on her back? Funny stuff.
Deviant {April 28th, 2008 at 3:51 pm}
“Have you ever seen someone in a tube dress, heels, with a Jansport on her back?”
Nope. But I’m getting a clear visual of that tube dress riding up and I do not like it all…
Thanks a lot 2D. Thanks a lot.
Ana B {April 28th, 2008 at 8:46 pm}
I see young women in all kinds of hot outfits with hot shoes on and “jansports” on their back or a cute tote with 30lbs of books on their shoulder and no chivalry to be seen. though I must say I have had several male students ask to carry my bag walking back from class when they are to meet with me in my office.
The Queen {April 28th, 2008 at 2:22 pm}
*sigh* What happened to courting? Now, men act offended if you even hint at wanting to be courted.
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Deviant {April 28th, 2008 at 3:52 pm}
Courting?
I can hear some young’n asking now “Is that some thing you do in front of a judge?”
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D*stroy {April 28th, 2008 at 1:59 pm}
yikes…that sounded a lot worse than it was supposed to.
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“men, don’t break your neck to open doors for every Esther Baxter or Zoe Saldana you see but refuse to give up your seat for the slightly homely chick with the eclectic teeth on the train carrying 90 textbooks”
Fellas, *all* women are beautiful.
.
.
.
.
(even the ugly ones)
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I’m sure I’m the only woman who will say “I don’t care about chivalry.”
I mean, it’s nice and all, but things like compatibility and what I’ll call “Pragmatic Politeness” are more important to me. Chivalry seems to be about the show. <womensstudies>Historically-speaking, it’s also tied to notions about the woman as the weaker sex that needs to be tended to by a Big Strong Man</womensstudies>.
“Pragmatic Politeness” on the other hand involves simple courtesies and basic fairness.
For example, my bus/train rule is if you have more gray than not, a cane, crutches, only one good leg, a pregnancy, are under age 6, or totin’ a baby, you get seating priority. Under 18, you should give up your seat to anyone who looks like s/he could be your mama or daddy (or me, because I am old enough but look about 19). Otherwise, get in where you fit in. Maybe that dude in a suit has a bad knee.
On opening/holding doors: I invoke the two-step Door Rule. If person B is more than two steps behind person A, person A is not obligated to open / hold the door. Less than two steps, and you’re setting up the person behind you to get smacked in the face with the door. More than two steps and you’re wasting your own time and/or forcing the person behind you to speed walk.
On paying for dates: S/He who asks pays. Exception: if Person A suggests a spot with $25 entrees knowing that Person B thinks Applebee’s is a Big Night Out, Person A should cover the check regardless of who asked. Don’t get me wrong, I prefer using OPM (other people’s money), but if I asked, it was with the understanding that I’d pay.
Or maybe I was just scarred by dates with Southern Gentlemen who were still Chivalrous A**holes … LOL.
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D*stroy {April 28th, 2008 at 11:48 am}
“Historically-speaking, it’s also tied to notions about the woman as the weaker sex..”
From now on I refuse to open doors, pay for dates and all that other oppressive chivalrous behavior. I prefer to respect a woman as an equal not further subjugate her by opening a car door!
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tiffany {April 28th, 2008 at 12:07 pm}
See, and that’s why you can’t tell some folks nothing.
I don’t mean you shouldn’t do it *at all.* I just mean that this stuff shouldn’t What Men Must Do For Women.
It’s about making life a little bit easier for someone else without being a paternalist jacka**.
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Treezy F. Baby {April 28th, 2008 at 12:25 pm}
I do get the underlying sarcasm but D*stroy don’t shoot your own game in the foot because of one woman’s opinion about chivalry…you’re playing yourself.
The reason why chivalry is NOT dead is because true pros in the game KNOW that it’s people who are running the nuts of the feminist movement, sticking womens’ noses in the poo of a former generation who said they wanted women’s equality and ish that are the suckas. Those cats KNOW that women still watch romantic comedies and still fantasize about getting treated with those good old fashioned courtship puddle in the rain rah-rah. And if they throw us any kinda bone from that way of doing things, it sets them up above the rest of ya’ll fools.
I will give many men a half a pass and just blame it on you weren’t taught any better. And so many women haven’t experienced real chivalry anyway they don’t know what they’re missing but I’m with Suga&Spice…I know what it look like and I want it again!!!
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D*stroy {April 28th, 2008 at 12:51 pm}
Treezy F Baby, Please say the baby! (Not sure what that means but couldn’t resist.) Much of what you wrote went over my head but I will say that I do not have a problem with chivalry nor the feminist movement, however they do in many ways fundamentally oppose one another. You can’t expect to be considered equal while asking for preferential treatment. I appreciate chivalry b/c I am somewhat of a hopeless romantic, who likes to see women treated exceptionally well– however exceptional treatment should not be defined by cliche behavior that is more theatrical than substantial.
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Ana B {April 28th, 2008 at 8:48 pm}
“You can’t expect to be considered equal while asking for preferential treatment.” which is my problem precisely with handicap parking… I know its way off topic but I have always felt that way about handicap parking. There I’ve said it.
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D*stroy {April 29th, 2008 at 8:47 am}
damn…shame on you. lol!
I was thinking about affirmative action in the same way…although I’m all for that.
Suga&Spice {April 28th, 2008 at 12:10 pm}
She is woman hear her roar! LOL. I totally disagree with you, but I hear where you are coming from
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Suga&Spice {April 28th, 2008 at 12:25 pm}
Oh and I might be one of the few moman who think most ‘Women’s Studies’ courses offered at college’s are a bunch of bullsh*t.
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I don’t totally disagree with you Tiffany…I think you make some great points.
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I don’t think it’s about womans studies or feminism, i think it’s more about not waiting for him to put on “the show” before deciding he is or is not the right person because he did or did not do all those things.
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Suga&Spice {April 28th, 2008 at 12:43 pm}
Those things should never be the deciding factor. But they should be the minimum. Yes, you should pay for our first date. Yes, you should open the door for me. Yes, you should call to see if I made it home safely. Yes, you should offer to carry a heavy bag for me. If we are riding in the same car, yes you should be the one pumping the gas. Just like there are certain things I should do that are the minimum. Yes, I should thank you for holding the door and carrying the bag. Yes, I should tell you how much I enjoyed and appreciated dinner. Yes I should offer to run into the store to pay for the gas or grab you a soda or something.
These are the basics signs of chilvary and appreciation you should show to people in general, but especially the opposite sex. Because as much as we like to scream we are equal, we are the same, yada, yada, yada. The reality is there are certain ways to care for a man and certain ways to treat a woman. Not everybody likes it but damnit, it is true.
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Jess {April 28th, 2008 at 6:03 pm}
It sounds frustrating for the male to have that list be so crucial on a first date, but you have to understand… the ultimate goal of dating is to find a mate we can settle down with… dating is the speed display, and we have to use this time to gauge what is natural in you versus what only comes out with the potential for pussy…
a woman can only be truly happy settling down with a man who will take her into consideration (but not let her walk all over him) years and years down the line, because its natural within him. Anything less will get too taxing on her once the child comes into the picture, because while the mother is giving all she has to support the baby mentally and physically, the man must be there to support her, and help her up when she falls from the weight. feminist or not, that’s the bottom line.
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tiffany {May 1st, 2008 at 5:58 pm}
suga&spice: all i’m saying is that chivalry is nice, but i’m more concerned with whether he understands me, accepts me, respects me, and makes me smile more often than not. i could really give a damn about whether he’s the door opening type if he meets those other criteria.
“dating is the speed display, and we have to use this time to gauge what is natural in you versus what only comes out with the potential for pussy”
see, and that’s something you can’t determine from a dude opening car doors. you can’t even determine it by dating, IMO, because dating is all about putting your best foot forward and trying to impress. you can only know whether a dude is life mate material by spending some serious upright time and seeing how he treats both you *AND* the folks he _ain’t_ f*ckin.
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I’m back to being a grad student so the dates I go on will be skewed towards the less expensive. . . though I don’t like the traditional view of dating being take someone out to a restaurant and have awkward conversation for a couple hours. I’d prefer to go out to do/see something that I was interested in doing.
Even when I was making the big bucks, going out to a “nice” restaurant was only something I did with friends mostly if there was something to trigger it (someone was visiting from out of town, we’d won a soccer/volleyball game, it had been a month since we all last chilled out together).
So, if I’m dating someone, she should expect that our dates will mirror my normal life. If I only go out to the really nice places once a month, then I’m not going to think of those too often if it’s up to me to determine what/where we’re doing/going next.
I’m not saying I’m adverse to going more often, but just giving you the idea of the priorities in my head.
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I know a guy who walks on the side the wind is blowing in order to shield the woman he’s with. I find that impressive.
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D*stroy {April 28th, 2008 at 1:06 pm}
2DEGREEZ– With all due respect, I really find stuff like that utterly ridiculous. In my opinion this is the type of sh*t that leads men to shield women from difficult decisions because of the burden attributed with making decisions. I was raised by a single mother who endured more hardship, success and failure than any man that I’ve met. Her example has made me realize that women are not delicate infants but powerful people who deserve the same respect that I would give a man. I think that Tiffany made a very good point earlier about the link between chivalry and female weakness. If I were a woman I would not want to be treated as though I have any less ability than a man. Chivalry in many ways underscores society’s vision of man’s strength and woman’s delicate nature.
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Suga&Spice {April 28th, 2008 at 1:17 pm}
Since when does me being with a gentleman mutally exclude me from being strong and independant? One does not negate the other.
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The Champ {April 28th, 2008 at 1:38 pm}
the concept of chivalry DOES somewhat contradict the concept of “independant women, hear me roar!!!”, which is why this is so tricky nowadays. basically, although i disagree, i can understand someone saying “since you all claim to be equal, why the hell should i be opening doors for your behind?” now, obviously this person wasn’t raised right, but he would bring up a valid point.
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D*stroy {April 28th, 2008 at 1:49 pm}
First it should be noted that a gentleman is not defined by ostentatious gestures. Furthermore, I did not say that you “being with a gentleman” had any impact on your independence and strength. I am saying that certain chivalrous acts, by their nature, do not show respect to a woman’s strength and independence.
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Deviant {April 28th, 2008 at 2:13 pm}
I didn’t realize they were supposed to?
Here I thought chivalry was about showing a woman that you are aware of (and appreciate) her femininity and not necessarily her weakness as a woman.
ie. I carry the heavy bags because I am better physically equipped to do so.
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D*stroy {April 28th, 2008 at 2:36 pm}
D, I completely agree with you. Chivalry SHOULD be about appreciating femininity but it seems to me that there is a fine line between appreciating a woman’s feminity and assuming that a woman is weak.
Deviant {April 28th, 2008 at 3:12 pm}
And you know what the problem is….
Women draw that line. .
Tread carefully men. It’s squiggly..
Sister Toldja {April 28th, 2008 at 2:02 pm}
This is actually done to shield a lady from getting wet by a car driving through a puddle and so the lady is securely under the awnings in case of rain. It’s a small gesture, but it makes me feel nice and lets a sister know he is thinking about being a gentleman.
I also feel you on the feminine weakness tip. I had a hard time reonciling my feminism and my ‘okayness’ with chivalry. But I have come to accept that men and women can do loads of things for each other to make the other feel special, without implying that one group is weaker. You hold the umbrella, I’ll make you an omelette! You grab the check, I will drop it like it’s hot. *I kid, I kid, but you know what I mean*
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Panamanian Devil {April 28th, 2008 at 2:09 pm}
Bump that…if I’m rocking Ferragamo’s (sp?) then the sidewalk is fair game. Shucks, I’m supposed to mess up MY nice apparrel b/c you’re prettier than me?
Malcolm X. Malcolm X.
I leave random comments.
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2Degreez {April 28th, 2008 at 3:09 pm}
Why are you wearing things you can’t spell? j/k
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D*stroy {April 28th, 2008 at 2:13 pm}
I guess my real feeling about chivalry boils down to…what does my woman like me to do? If she likes the door to be opened for her. fine. If she doesn’t like the car door to be opened. fine. She likes her books carried. no problem. I will even happily carry her big heavy-@ss, purse for her. I wouldn’t do any of these things because I believe that they are intrinsically good or ideal. I would do them because they make her feel good.
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Deviant {April 28th, 2008 at 2:15 pm}
We likey.
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The Queen {April 28th, 2008 at 2:25 pm}
WOW…gold star for D*stroy.
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Ana B {April 28th, 2008 at 9:03 pm}
gold star * and a thumbs up~carry my books, hold my purse, remove/put on my coat, pull out my chair, hold the door, walk on the outside of me at all time, open my car door. I love it all.
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Xquizzyt1 {April 30th, 2008 at 4:54 pm}
Nice. I don’t need some of the traditional stuff, door opening when we’re walking into or out of an establishment? Check. Carrying shit for me? Check. But I think some things depend on where you are. I mean it’s one thing if you’re going to a function or a restaurant like Le Cirque or Aquavit or something… but I’d feel like an ass sitting there and waiting for you to walk around the car and open my door in front of damn Olive Garden. I would clearly just get out the damn car and go get my salad and breadsticks. LOL
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2Degreez {April 28th, 2008 at 2:15 pm}
I definitely hear what you’re saying, but I don’t think it’s that serious. I just saw it as a nice gesture. I was raised by a strong, single mother as well. In addition, I personally have overcome more obstacles and hardships than most men. I was raised to be self-reliant so I am in no way a pampered princess. I just think that when a man goes out of his way to do something courteous, he should be regognized for it.
It’s possible that the guy I was with went out of his way to shield me from the wind because he knew I’d be appreciative of such thoughtfulness.
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2Degreez {April 28th, 2008 at 2:17 pm}
*recognized
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eclectic teeth??? I almost spit out my chicken salad!!! LMAO
I don’t get real extra when it comes to chivalry. This list completely meets my chivalry criteria. I do abhor men who don’t hold doors though.
One chivalrous act that I hate is having a man open the car door for me once we’ve arrived at our destination. It’s such a long wait for him to get out the car, adjust his penis, and then come open my door. I’d rather get out on my own! On the other hand I do not mind him opening the door when we get in the car to leave (and in true Bronx Tale fashion I do lean over to unlock his door…or just use the power lock if necessary).
Walking on the side closest to the street is a good look too.
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The Champ {April 28th, 2008 at 1:38 pm}
thanks for stopping by, tits
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Suga&Spice {April 28th, 2008 at 1:45 pm}
LOLOL @ The Champ just trying to use Tits as someones name
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tits mcgee {April 28th, 2008 at 2:34 pm}
Thanks for having me.
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Ana B {April 28th, 2008 at 9:05 pm}
you just enjoy saying tits
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Point of clarification regarding my comments…I was not born during the women’s rights movement I am merely an innocent byproduct of what women in my mama’s generation said they wanted. I personally think they took it too far and now we get stuck with all the unsavory elements of their so-called independence movement. Do I want equality when it comes to fair wages yes, do I want men to throw it in my face that women’s equality says I should open my own door and carry my own bags? Hells nah.
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Wise Diva {April 28th, 2008 at 3:48 pm}
I see your point, I just don’t think women in your mama’s generation should be broad stroked and lumped together. So many messages have been misconstrued, misread, distorted and diluted, that people forget that feminism is not all things to all people.
Being an asshole is not part of the male essence, and females, (whether they cling to a feminist title or not) don’t like when people act like assholes towards them because of their gender
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Chilvary is either in a man or isn’t. It’s not something he just turns on or off. When it comes to opening doors and being courteous to others, it’s automatic and he doesn’t care if the woman is a little old lady or someone he considers the finest thing he’s ever seen–he does it just because. He accepts the thank you and goes on about his business.
(I meant to add this earlier to my original comment, but I got busy.)
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Treezy F. Baby {April 28th, 2008 at 7:22 pm}
Is chivalry then about intent or result? Is someone chivalrous or does (s)he do a chivalrous act? Can women be chivalrous or do a chivalrous act for a man? Is chivalry all about doing something for the opposite sex? I just went Professor F. Baby on ya’ll what can I say I’m in practice…Hands? You there in the back…
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LUVITMANE! my biggest weakness when it comes to men, is CHIVALRY…A GENTLEMAN make me smile! that’s this superwoman’s kryptonite…because it allows me to take off my “the workd has made me the man of my dreams” hat and be a WOMAN for a change…but Champ…”eclectic teeth”? really? damn!
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The Champ {April 28th, 2008 at 9:31 pm}
“because it allows me to take off my “the workd has made me the man of my dreams” hat and be a WOMAN for a change”
this is really deep, and another potential topic
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I am the Killa Cal and I approve this message and/or weblog posting!
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I was laughing to myself today about how funny “eclectic teeth” was.
I just wanted to say that if someone ever told me that I have “eclectic teeth”…I’d throw myself into a vat of battery acid…then climb out and punch myself in the nuts (with both fists…simultaneously).
..that’s how devastated I would be.
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Ana B {April 29th, 2008 at 9:26 pm}
Battery Acid? wow isnt that a bit extreme?.. nevermind the follow up fists to the nads.
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D*stroy {April 30th, 2008 at 12:02 pm}
LOL! I love that word “nads”…I haven’t heard that in a minute! LMAO!
And yes, it is extreme… but extreme misery calls for extreme measures.
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Nope. I’m officially “noping” The Champ. He did not say, “imagined you eating salty cucumbers while sitting bucket-naked on a furry stool” I cannot and will not. LOL I’m soooo mad at that!!!
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…too funny.
I had too much to think last night.
we only know bits and pieces of pieces and bits.
kibbles and bits, I’m gonna get me…
unfortunate that most women seem to have a sense of entitlement as it relates to men.
a successful relationship can often hinge on living in mutual denial of infidelity.
a family can be just as dysfunctional where the husband and wife are present as where they are not.
where one mans chivalry ends another womans neglect begins
Paradox-a seemingly contradictory statement that may nonetheless be true.
until destinies collide,
Felonius Trump
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I’m loving this post. These days, guys don’t know what chilvary means! I’m posting this somewhere…maybe my own blog? Hmmm..
Thanks, I love your blog!
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