five reasons why truly platonic friendships can never exist.
1. Unless online or in college (two paradoxical universes where the usual rules and regulations of social discourse are thrown out of the window, like mop water and caustic midgets) men and women don’t actively seek friends of the opposite sex.
2. If given the opportunity, most men who aren’t in a committed and monogamous romantic relationship will sleep with pretty much any reasonably attractive woman. Yes, any. We may not actively want to, but, in the right situation, we happily would. That pesky “would” kind of has a way of always completely contradicting the whole platonic thing.
“Well, what if the guy harbors absolutely no physical attraction at all towards the woman, and vice versa? A platonic friendship can occur then, right” I hear you asking, which leads us to…
3. No unattached man is going to willingly spend a good amount of his free time with a like-aged woman he is completely unattracted to. It will never happen, a fact which actually “fits”, especially when you consider that…
4. …A women (notice I didn’t use any qualifiers such as “most women” or “a typical woman”) would get extremely (read: EXTREMELY) frustrated and annoyed if made to interact regularly with a guy who found her completely unattractive. Don’t argue this. It’s science.
“Well…” the same imaginary anonymous questioner from before asks…
“…what if you have a man and a woman who are both already in romantic relationships? Why can’t a platonic friendship occur then?”
Since I’ve already established that we don’t actively seek opposite sex friends while we’re single, the only way two people in separate romantic relationships can become truly platonic friends would be if they happened to first meet each other after they both were already in the relationship, an impossibility due to the fact that…
5. …No man or woman is going to be okay with their significant other making new close friends of the opposite sex.
Note, I didn’t say you couldn’t have close like-aged friends of the opposite sex, but just don’t call that shit platonic. it’s not, and will never be.
Now, you may disagree with some (or all) of what I’ve said, but, to quote my favorite reptilian drug kingpin, Marlo Stanfield …. “You want it to be one way….but it’s the other way”
**the champ finishes his snicker and slowly climbs into a ford excursion driven by a very unkempt panama, who glares ominously at the imaginary anonymous questioner as they drive away**
–the champ
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{ 66 comments… read them below or add one }
You know, being a life-long (to date, anyway) believer and striver of platonic friendships bewtween men and women, I have only recently come to this same conclusion myself. It’s bullshit.
I’m now in absolute awe of the number of guys I could have but didn’t… and the number who wanted to but couldn’t… because I wouldn’t…
God, I’m my own personal killjoy! What’s that about!?
This read like an Math corollary. It reminded me of Set Theory as a matter of fact.
Anyway I agree for the most part, although you have to throw complicating factors like the Friendzone and whatever in there….
wendy: I want you to stay around today, just so that you can give your testimony again to dispute the people who will come here and defend the concept of platonic friendships
killa: see, just the fact that the phenomenon known as the “friend zone” even exists says all that’s needed to be said about the questionable validity of pf’s
I am going to disagree with you for two specific reasons 1. I have a platonic male friend my age and 2. if everyone agrees with you than really where is the fun in it, I love the banter.
To my first point. My freind lets call him Kenney, (cause that is the name his momma gave him.) So Kenney once expressed his desires to bed me and once upon a time we made out but that was just our hormones; we have come to the mutual agreement that it would be in our best interest to remain only friends. Since this understanding He and I hang out and get feedback from each other about the people we are dating, have heart to heart conversations about how men suck, hang out watch football, basketball, baseball, boxing, drink at the bar. Every once in a while we call each other to catch up and have dinner. I am even his daughter’s Godmother. When I go out on a first date I text him the name, number, lisc plate (if avail),where we are going and what time I will check in with him (usually next am by
to make sure Im ok (times are so different in the dating world today). He knows alot of my dirt and I know a lot of his, which is why I ran some interference with his baby mama at his grandmas funeral when the woman he was dating showed up. So there is my haphazard and somewhat convoluted argument that men and women CAN be platonic friends. But I must say I agree with Wendilicious that had I known in my teens and 20′s what I know now, whew honey my virtue and reputation would be, lets just say, not as virtuous or reputable.
truer words…
Ana : you had me until the “express desires to bed me” part. Really, you did
Tits: thanks, tits
See…reading Ana’s comment….I think “platonic friendships” are a figment of the female imagination that we as men deal with/tolerate to eventually break them down….or meet more of their friends….
But if we can speak candidly here, circumstance and opportunity dictate whether a man will sleep with most women….period….
I wonder how many people have ACTUALLY WATCHED When Harry Met Sally…that movie answers this question definitively….
killa: agree, 100%
and please, speak as candidly as you like
I disagree. I’m a married man who has a couple of female friends that are physically attrractive but I just see them as friends. Some man can be friends with a woman but not all men are able to do it.
Ana, you are making the mistake so many women make in thinking that a guy is thinking about things the same way they are.
My best friend is a female. We’ve been tight for 22 years (since college). We tell each other all our business. When she goes on a date she lets me know before and after just like you do with your friend. We share all our dreams and aspirations. Hell sometimes we’re on the phone for hours. Soon after we had met in college I got involved with another girl who now is my wife. So early on my friend and I ruled out sex.
Ragardless, to this day I still want to hit it. And if she gives me half a chance, I will. Yes, I’m considerate that she’s hesitant to go there because she’s afraid of complicating things and I respect and honor that. But trust me, she stars in my fantasies as I’m sure you to in your “friends’s.”
dr: if I may, where and how did you meet these “female friends”, and how long have you known them
keeping it: lol, damn. I think you and ana are at opposite ends of the spectrum
keeping it real should also refer to himself as “thorough”.
woosah.
them’s true words unless my girlfriend reads this in which case, i have no clue what he’s talking about.
of course, it begs the question, do women think like men do in regards to this? are women out there fantasizing about their platonic male friends? the assumption is that men are all fantasizing about their female “platonic friends”. sure women chose not to go there…but are they thinking about it at all??
one of my female friends once told me she had pornographic dreams about all of her male friends but she’s also a raging nymph so i wasn’t sure if she’s an exception or the rule.
Women picture banging every friend they have(even the ones they are not attracted to)…they may not act on it but they do think it…Men and women can not be platonic friends because men have wieners and ladies have snatches…and somebody always wants to do it…the end….
I tried my best to think of a loophole on this list, taking my own platonic relationships under consideration.
Can’t really think of any. But now I feel a challenge coming on. You know, now I gotta seek out a new platonic relationship somewhere. This will be hard, but I think I am up for it!
Keeping it Real: I think I confused you. He and I actually spoke about sleeping together and that we thought it would be in our best interest no to. We cleared the air, so to speak. So now we know that though at one time we would have now we wont. Because for me he is in the FRIEND zone, never to cross to the other side unless he is the last man left on earth and we have to repopulate it then I would search for another woman to help him along.
Panama: As I am sure you are well aware, women know immediately whether or not they will sleep with you. Well let me speak for myself, I know from the moment I see you or hear you speak weather or not you have a chance, but I can honestly say I have not fantasized about all of my male friends, solely the ones that I would sleep with.
p: ummm, what’s the name of that friend? You know, the “dreamer”. she’d be good for some, ummm, research
lizzzzzzzz: keep trying. it aint gonna happen
Ana: what makes you so sure that he feels the same way?
I think it might be more fair to say that there can’t be a coed platonic friendship without the question ever coming up. However, once it’s been addressed in one form or another, it’s completely possible to move on to a platonic friendship with that person.
Ana, I’m not confused. My friend put me in the “friend zone” too. She thinks that going any further will complicate our relationship. Out of respect for her and her wishes, I comply and don’t push that angle with her.
That doesn’t mean I don’t want a piece a dat ass. That doesn’t mean I don’t fantasize about her like crazy sometimes. That doesn’t mean that when I see her I don’t sometimes feel a strong urge to grab her and kiss her deeply. But I don’t.
I’m sure your friend if he’s honest, he’ll admit he can relate. As someone said earlier, platonic friendship is a figment of women’s imaginations and men just go along with it. Now you know what we’re really thinking.
you sir, can rest your case…Ladies do the same thing…Just cause people respect other’s wishes doesn’t erase the fact that , if given permission or if someone gets weak, the so called “platonic” friends are going to “do it”..cause they are!!!!
I have male friends that are just my friends…no fantasizing, no hanky panky, no friendly massages gone an inch too far…that’s the way it is.
That’s right…I said it people…I have male platonic friends.
Now do I think they would try to hit if given a wide open opportunity? I’m not sure…but it’s never come up or been hinted around. I like it that way.
Ah, the friend zone.
It is possible to think someone is attractive but not want to mess around with them. Just because you can acknowledge someone is attractive doesn’t mean you want to see them in their skivies.
Sigh! Ladies, if you’re not thinking about it that doesn’t mean he isn’t. A platonic friendship is one that is completely free of sexual desire by BOTH parties. If you admit he’d hit it if the stars aligned right then it by definition is NOT a platonic relationship. And because he isn’t making sexual advances to you that doesn’t mean he’s not fantasizing about it.
Everybody get that?
I’m a woman and I endorse this comment.
I had this same conversation with a friend of mine a few months back.
T paraphrase him: “Once we reach a certain age, men are not looking for female friends. There are girls we wanna bone that may become our friends for one reason or another. But if a dude is hanging around you, he’s trying to hit it…”
I second this…the key is that BOTH parties have to agree and honestly not have a sexual attraction…
Chocolate, thanks for…ummm…Keeping it real. Your friend is right on the money. And you my dear deserve mad props. A woman who can deal with the truth and is not intimidated by it is a gem.
keeping it real: the champ called. He’d like his comment back. He’d also like to know how you read his mind.
so essentially you are stating that because all men view all women as potential sex partners there is no such thing as a platonic relationship (between men and women) and because you said it thus it must be so?
I think that sums it up nicely…I must warn: DO not underestimate that horniness goes both ways…
Most of my male friends will fuck me. Most of them have tried. The best of my male friends are the best of my male friends because we did the mess around thing and decided to stop. The platonic friendship honestly only remains platonic because I refuse to let it cross any sexual/physical boundaries, however the tension is always there (unless, like I’ve said before, its been exhausted).
Ewww, champ, you got cocky.
ana: it can happen, but only if you happened to meet in the two universes I mentioned early in the entry.
Other than that, ummmm…*paging marlo’s quote*
jess: subtlety called. He wanted to know why you all have never met.
seriously though, the last sentence said it all….as long as any inkling of tension is still there, its not platonic
To answer your question. One I met at work. One I met through a friend (they were in the same band together). Another I met in college.
I think the only way a plutonic relationship can exist between a man and a woman would be if the man is gay. Gay men just want to be like the women so they spend as much time as they can studying them. lol Plus gay men and women basically have more in common.
*Notice i didnt say the woman cuz then the guy would still have sexual fantasies of being with both women lol*
I have a bisexual friend and we have been friends for 25 years and we have never once went “there” with each other. And its not that i am unattractive or anything..its just that we know that a romantic relationship would really mess up our friendship and we value our friendship more than that.
dr: one (the one you met in college) falls under the disclaimer from the beginning of the entry, and another one (the one you met at work), is pretty much in the same category. That leaves the one you met through another woman. how exactly did this meeting happen? I’m asking because the my general premise behind this all is the fact that men typically don’t seek out female friends of the opposite sex, and I’m curious how this actually played out
Aja: there’s a metaphor in there somewhere. I think I’ll just need a bit more time to find it
Oh yeah, him. We met. He got the wrong message and then he tried to fuck me. We haven’t spoken since.
And I was pretty much agreeing with you.
Though I will throw in.. the “platonic” state of friendship isn’t a “figment of the female imagination” as much as it is something that only the woman has a say over. Technically, whether or not the penis goes up or the fantasies exist, it’s still platonic if it never breached that physical plane. The way cheating isnt cheating unless it’s actually cheating.
But some of my best friends are white! Sorry, wrong argument. But I completely agree. And I don’t know if anyone said this, but I think part of the charm of a “platonic” relationship, part of what makes it fun is the untapped sexual energy between the two people. It might not ever be talked about, or acted upon, but deep down, at least on one side, someone thought about it at least once. And if neither of them did, then one or both of them are gay. ROFLMAO
hahahahaha…White peole are funny…I love sexual tension!
A “plutonic” relationship? Wow, that sounds dangerous. ROFLMAO
Here’s the thing as much as we (women) find comfort in the notion of a platonic friend at the same time deep inside we feel that “all men are the same” including our guy friends and therefore never really believe them to be purely platonic anyway. And a part of us, LIKES the idea of this…that our male friends the one we bitch to about our own lovers would if given the chance bed us. Because it is in those moments of feeling unappreciated by our significant others that we get mad vulnerable and our vanity gets the best of us. We are looking for evidence that we are worthy, we are special and we are damn f*ckable! And we like to know that we could with the snap of our fingers do something naughty with this very same man we were just a minute ago “just cool” with. A small (or large) part of us likes to KNOW that we could if we wanted to shag our best male friend if we so desired. It is in those moments that all of a sudden we wish we were more physically attracted to them, that we start giving them desirable traits that they don’t really even have, that we start letting our minds wander about things we have long suppressed. It is in those moments that are own assurance that things are strictly platonic becomes questionable even for a millisecond. And so I feel that even on the female’s side of things there are no such things as platonic friends…
::::Goes to watch the Shit, Damn, Motherf*cker scene of The Best Man to confirm her point::::
To add, I am jumping up and down like the little elf in the Starburst Berries and Cream commerical because you are writing again for the world, Champ.
yep, When Harry Met Sally is apparently in order for ALOT of people…who knew? I thought everyone had seen it and gotten the appropriate message from it….guess not….
There are apparently alot of 1977 Sallys reading this!
jess: “Technically, whether or not the penis goes up or the fantasies exist, it’s still platonic if it never breached that physical plane.”
i disagree. although i dont think a simple thought constitutes cheating, a simple thought or feeling does effectively end the whole platonic thing.
and ummm, i’m sorry about subtle. its actually my fault though. i told him that you were easy
x: thats exactly what i’m saying.
treezy: if verysmartbrothas.com had a refrigerator, your first comment would be posted on the freezer door, right next to all the other “A” papers and pizza hut magnets. thank you
killa: that literally made me lol
Okay I guess I missed Treezy’s post….but she wins today….get her a trophy….like for real….give her a show like that crazy Alexxxys Tyler woman….
Ms. Tyler is my hero…Damn that Penis Power…always get me in trouble hahahahha.
I’m inclined to agree. I don’t view my friendships w/ men the same way I view them with women. It’s just different. As you said, other than college, the friendships were all born of his desire to to date me and me putting him in the zone, or we dated but broke up. Notice I didn’t say anything him putting ME in the zone. I have no desire to be friends w/ a man whom I’m interested knowing he doesn’t feel the same way. I don’t know how men do that, lol.
Teezy, way to Keep It Real. We could hang
Jess, I think you’re mistaken as to what a platonic relationship is. If any person has a sexual attraction or thought about the other, then that relationship ceases to be platonic, whether or not the sexual tension is acted upon.
Put it this way. A platonic relationship is akin to the relationship you have with your opposite gender sibbling. Normal men don’t have sexual attraction to their sisters. Normal men DO have sexual attraction for their female friends.
yeah…treezy, me likey long time. very smart brothas welcome and appreciate your comment. almost as much as anything a fully nude LC from the hills would say.
well for me anyway.
I tried to come up with an argument against your fourth point, until I realized that all of my male friends think i’m pretty hot–and usually tell me so. *shrug* Before college I always felt that platonic relationships with the opposite sex existed, now, not so much.
K, I was recently put in the “friend” zone by one of my best guy friends (who I so happened to fall for, but we agreed to stay friends). Let’s just say the friendship is now null and void, and he is engaged. *Ouch*
There are no platonic relationships between men and women. Even the men I am friendly with as a married woman let it be known that they would certainly be interested if I was not happily married. You see, I once naively believed in platonic relationships, I even cried on the shoulder of a man that I saw as a friend when I was leaving my ex. This man whose shoulder I cried on just happens to be my present husband. You see ladies, while your confiding in your so-called platonic friend, he’s busy getting ready to make his move! My husband and I laugh about it now. I had no clue that he was attracted to me and I certainly was not interested in him. Little did I know that he already saw me as his life partner and the mother of his children.
One of my “platonic” male friends once told me that he categorises women thus:
1. Women he’d never shag
2. Women he has shagged but has not interst in shagging again
3. Women he has shagged and would happily shag again
4. Women he hasn’t shagged yet but would love to
3 and 4 are good to have around as friends, apparently. Turns out I was in category 4 but I “zoned” him.
I’m just happy I have both the words “slag” and “shag” somehow incorporated on the website.
its always good to have brits around.
YAY!! Thank you both for returning. I love the site already (of course)..Is it just me, or are your commenters/readers the coolest?
Cool. Heck…what’s cooler than cool?
ICE COLD.
That’s what the readers and commenters are – Ice cold.
we try our best to keep the nitwits out.
If men only look to establish shallow friendships with attractive women? Who do ugly chicks befriend? I would guess pretty women (or animals). Pretty women use ugly chicks like accessories. Nothing more than ornaments to further punctuate their beauty. Shame on you hot chicks! Shame on you.
Yay, for L’s testimonial…I’m hoping my best guy friend will break up with his girlfriend, run to my arms so we can finally be together…like already!
Wait did I just say that? Nooo, nooo…he’s like my brother! Ewww :/
I appreciate all the love I got on my essay and shit. I must say I especially loved being compared to Alexyss “Yum yum and some cum!” Tylor.
:::goes to watch Vagina Power on YouTube to laugh until my toes hurt:::
Tylor is the best…I want to meet the man that f*cked up her life…Hilarious
d: this will be somewhat addressed next friday. stay tuned and shit
treezy f: i forgot alexyss was your idol. i wonder what she’d say about this topic
I believe that there can be platonic relationships between men and women (that are educated & mature, & have common sense)
There. I said it. *hits crouching tiger pose to fight off all the hateration coming*
D: I don’t make friends based on looks. Then again, I happen to feel that I am beautiful. And I’m sure more people are attracted to my inner beauty much more than outer beauty. So shame on you! *LOL*
Seriously, the ladies that are commenting that they are in completely platonic relationships with heterosexual men are delusional. I have had women ask me “Why can’t men just be around us and enjoy our company without things getting sexual?” Simple. It’s because we’re not wired that way. We will always seek and hunt women that we want to have sex with. The females in my life that I am friends with know this, and they know two things:
- I would sleep with them, given the chance.
- Because they don’t want to sleep with me, I respect that and don’t push the matter any further.
The ladies that I have met that can sustain at least VIABLE relationships with men are the ones that understand this premise of our relationship and make it clear early on that there is no chance of anything happening on a romantic level.
Or, they’re unattractive and many of the men they know aren’t interested in sleeping with them anyway, as The Champ points out. Also a possibility…you might just be crazy. Men might start to see crazy and decide “You know what? It’s not worth it.”
In any case, give your friendships a couple of years, and the phrase “You know, we used to be really close, but then we just lost touch” appears. Then you’ll know what we mean.
educated , secure, common sense??? …hahahahahahaha what the hell is that? Wieners and snatches can not be “friends” …God told me so and I try not to argue with him…
Either they (crotches and such n’ such) touch or like TADESSE said “we just lost touch” will be the last thing you hear.
I used to think it was possible, but life experiences have destroyed that idea. The only situation where I think this can work is in a professional environment, where you can be around someone, but not have to engage them on a personal level.
I sat and I thought about it the other day, and realized that every single female friend I have, with ONE exception I have either had sex with, wanted to have sex with at one time, or wanted to have sex with me at one time or another. This cannot be coincidence.
In addition, being friends with a single woman who you would never try anything with is…well thats like hustling backwards.
You just putting yourself in a silly situation. When the day comes where you’re hard up for some juicebox, and the other individuals on your roster aren’t playing for s***. I bet you call in the reserves…
This is exactly why I have ONE real friend these days. I wont say its impossible, but it requires a certain timing and lack of chemistry. Basically she gotta be extra wrong for you, otherwise your natural inclination is to wonder, and all it takes is a single thought (and a shot of henny) to change your life forever.
“juicebox”?
Can we not trivialize the wonderment that is pussy by associating it with a childsize beverage container?
Please?!
Other than your erroneous “juicebox” reference, I agree with you.
I just want to point out with the addition of the picture….Marlo and Snoop are not platonic because Snoop is a dude….
It needed to be said….
I’m surprised nobody brought up Chris Rock in all this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxWWi8prOO4
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