Honestly, I’m not even completely sure how to approach this topic but it’s been on my mind for a solid two (almost) two weeks now. Hopefully, by now everybody knows the story.
Stop me if you’ve heard this one before.
As is par the course for such situations, the police apprehended and proceeded to arrest four of the guilty gentlemen and were attempting to find the fifth. These cats are sexual predators and deserve to be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extend of the law.
Except they didn’t commit a crime. The girl lied. She didn’t want to look like a slore to her boyfriend. And unlike Mystikal, taping the encounter saved their asses. And let’s be real, without it, they’d probably go to jail for a very long time (though apparently several inconsistencies were popping up in her story).
Sexual abuse is a real problem. I believe that if you rape a woman, you should be put under the jail and they should lose the key to your cell. Hell, if you rape anybody for that matter. Forcing that trauma on an unsuspecting undeserving person who typically did nothing more than befriend (most sexual abuse happens at the hands of an acquaintance of the victim) you is cowardly and something that you ought to be sent straight to hell for.
But what happens if you didn’t do it? It’s so easy to accuse somebody of rape and the burden falls on the person to prove that they didn’t rape you. And as jacked up as that sounds to me, it doesn’t make more sense to shift the burden of proof to the victim. They’re already hurt enough, to treat them like it didn’t actually happen doesn’t help further the cause of the thousands of women who are afraid to come forward. But still…what happens when you didn’t actually do it? You have to figure out your next move from jail where you’re placed in a position of presumed guilt. Where public opinion, the state, and police are viewing you as a despicable denizen of society. You are less than dirt. You are a rapist.
The four guys they did apprehend were freed after spending some days in jail. They were happy as hell to get out of jail but really, where’s their retribution? They get to be free, but what of their name. They weren’t convicted of anything but the world knows they ran on train on some random girl. Now that was their decision and they should have to live with that, but it isn’t so far fetched for people to start thinking, “well if they could do that, its possible that they COULD have raped that girl.” Hell, the word “rape” is so powerful that even if not convicted, it wouldn’t surprise me if those boys weren’t forever, even just in their own personal everyday lives, haunted by that word and what it could have meant for them.
I feel like if you falsely accuse somebody of rape, you should be prosecuted just as harshly. You’re toying with somebody’s life. You’re placing them into the category of sexual predators and there’s no coming back from that. But likely, the chick will walk and probably transfer schools because not only is she a liar, she’s also now just a chick who let 5 guys run up in her at once.
And thank god for video tape. It takes a certain kind of perversion to tape yourself and 4 other people gangbanging some chick in a dorm bathroom. But I presume that every so often it just might save you from the big house.
I know a chick who lied about being raped in high school. Luckily she just said amongst our peers (and was later proven a lie) and didn’t go to the police like this chick did. She said it for the same reason as this chick, she cheated on her boyfriend and didn’t want to get in trouble. Just how motherf*cking selfish can you be to be willing to throw somebody else’s life away like that?
Like I said, I really don’t know how to approach this but its been on my mind. I’m glad that those brothers got the ability to get out of jail and hopefully move on with their lives. I just wish it didn’t have to come amidst what is really a huge problem in America, especially on college campuses.
I don’t know. All you people are smart and I’m sure most of you have heard about this case. What are your thoughts?
Do tell.
-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka TANGLE JIG P aka GIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRL, HE A 3
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{ 281 comments… read them below or add one }
Sorry, I’m not feeling any remorse for a bunch of dudes running trains. Don’t feel sorry for her either.
@Liz,
I agree with you. I cannot find it within me to feel sorry for those boys. What they did was just as despicable as if they would have assaulted the girl. They probably thought it cool, funny or whatever doing what they did but now it is staring them back in the face. Only not how that probably would have liked.
If they had not been there doing something they should not have been doing they would not be in the position they are in.
And the girl is no better. To demean herself and engage in such an act, and then falsely accuse somebody, she deserves to be made a shame.
@Raqi,
Damn. Tough crowd. The difference between an “assault” and what they did in the bathroom is that regardless how gross we think trains are, there is no victim in a train. Only willing participants.
I feel terrible for those boys. Esp. considering that (judging from the news footage) they dont seem to be grasping how damaging this can and most likely will be for them.
@Me fail english?, i’m with you. and it is a tough crowd. methinks folks somehow think that if you run a train on a chick you deserve what you get.
me also thinks that folks opinion on sexual deviancy is a bit skewed. i wonder if people think that running a train is as bad as sleeping with 100 people individually?
how does one decide which one is despicable?
@Panama Jackson, both get the side eye. and let me reiterate. i am NOT saying that any of those boys deserved what they got. NOT AT ALL. what i am saying is that certain behaviors put you at risk. just like if there had been no s3x but ol’ girl ratted them out on some ‘i know some people who had a keg party’ ish they’d have consequences to face due to their actions. any person who violates any university policy gets punished. what i’m trying to say, and again this is not to overshadow the real issue which is LYING, is that there are risks associated with every choice we make. and some more than others which is admittedly UNFAIR. i.e.) driving drunk while black in the hood.
@Miss Paterson,
running trains is against university policy?
@Deviant,
Yes. It’s right there in the manual after blowing goats but before p-popping on a handstand.
It’s a very thorough manual.
@Miss Patterson,
Certain behaviors put you at risk? Like having sex with a woman you met because she may decide to accuse you of rape later?
Riding in a stolen car with 5 gang members all carrying guns with a kilo of coke past a police station is a behavior that puts you at risk for jail time.
Having sex (assuming it was consentual) should only put you at risk for STDs and pregnancy.
@Me fail english?,
Agreed. Moreso, I feel terrible for all the real victims of rape. Because of cases like this one, everybody’s story becomes suspicious.
We might find what those guys did disguting, but that’s not the trial here. They will be linked to a “rape” case in some shape or form. And that’s terrible.
I agree with P. False victims should be prosecuted to some extent… if only so that it validates the real victims when they do come forward.
@Sula,
Girrrrl. Dont even bring up employers googling candidates for hire. Now when these boys’ names pop up the boss may see the whole story… or he may see only the first half of it… or he may see all of it and come to the conclusion she was coerced into recanting… or he may just ask a neighbor “what do you think of Rafael?”. And you know how ppl love to eff up facts and details or just plain lie to make the story more sensational. Sheesh!
@Sula
@Me Fail
What if she was coerced? I know she recanted, and I know there was a video. But how reliable is a video in terms of proving guilt or innocence? R. Kelly is still making music instead of being under the jail. Has anyone seen the video? Just curious
@Sula,
The video wasnt the sole reason that the case was dropped. It didnt prove innocence or guilt, however, it did show the holes in her story. It was the nail in the coffin. she had tons of holes in her story and the video was the last straw.
On another note, what counts as coercion?
@Sula,
Ok, I can accept that answer for the most part. She had holes in her story and it all just sounded like a lie and turned out to be a lie based on her recanting of hte story.
Not sure about coercion, but she could have said she was under duress b/c of a threat of violence, and did what she had to do to prevent a violent attack against her by these 4 men. That situation would look consensual
@Sula,
She should have said that if that was the case
@N.I.A.,
I didnt see the video. In addition to what Peyso said about there already being a bunch of holes/inconsistencies in the story and the video highlighting some of them I think she’s a liar because of all the stuff we KNOW she lied about. For instance, she said all 5 of the dudes raped her, when the people who’ve seen the video seem to think from start to finish, not all of the boys even had sex with her. She also said she was tied up but the people who saw the video said she made that up to and there was no rope. Video tape or not, none of us know what happened in the bathroom but this girl’s account reeks of lies. And not just the kinds of lies you tell to make a true story more sympathetic or believable. These are malicious lies. Why accuse two guys who were just watching it go down, of anything? Yes they were creeps, but rapists?
@Sula,
I agree with you. I guess I’m having a slight problem just brushing this aside as some lying-h@ who ruined these boys lives. I’m having a problem with the whole taking of the cell phone angle, and going into a bathroom to do their business. I know women who participated in trains, and it always happened at an actual residence, not a dorm bathroom. Something about that doesn’t sit right with me. Unless, it was a part of the game she was playing with these boys. Who knows? It just seems iffy. But, since she recanted, and everyone thinks she is a lying slut puppy, I should probably not even worry about it.
@Me Fail English?
I hear you, and I’ve heard the stories about all of the inconsistencies in her story. I agree that her blaming everyone there, when she only had s3x with a few is definitely wrong. The lying period is wrong. And unfortunately, all involved are bearing a burden for her lies.
@N.I.A.,
I’m with you there. Video tape dont mean ish to me. I personally know a woman who denied she was raped cuz she didn’t fight. Nevermind that she was scared dude would beat her within an inch of her life if she did resist. Now if they were on tape, nobody would think that was rape either. What about drunk ppl. They can be running off doing crazy things on tape, but be too impaired to consent. That wouldn’t look like a rape tape either.
Also, being young, sometimes you dont know what constitutes rape. (Hell, Im grown and I still dont know!) So alot of girls know they got violated, but feel they won’t have a case unless they embellish, which could explain why she lied.
All types of isht was running through my head. Because in my mind recanting and admission of lying are WAY different. That is…until you start accusin other dudes in the room. I’ll never know what happened but that’s what made me lose sympathy…and R. Kelly is going to hell.
@Me Fail,
Exactly!!
We are in agreement, Sister MeFail. I think I’ve lost sympathy, though. I just think I’m incredibly disappointed, and wished she would just been honest up front….Now, if something did happen that was a litle fishy, who would believer her azz now? smh.
I don’t know what was on the tape and certainly something that *looks* consensual on tape may not actual be in reality.
However, if the tape has her telling them that they’re hitting the spot and her boyfriend’s c*ck is so much smaller than theirs and she giggles for them to stop videoing it, I’d have a hard time believing that all that transpired because she was scared she’d be beat in addition to being raped.
@Raqi,
“What they did was just as despicable as if they would have assaulted the girl. ”
While I personally wouldn’t participate in a train, I can’t agree that it is just as despicable. The one major difference is that in one case the girl consents, and in another, she doesn’t. That is a significant difference because in the former, she is not a victim but a willing participant …something she is woman enough to decide on her own. Sure alcohol raises another issue, but still…she made a decision.
@Cheekie,
Yeah, about the “just as despicable as assault” thing…. Im sure actual rape victims would have much preferred to be given a choice to have a train run on them or be coerced/violently attacked.
@Me fail english?,
Exactly.
@Liz,
Would you feel any remorse if one of those dudes were your brother, son, nephew, cousin, uncle or friend?
@Monk, i’d like to know this too.
@Liz, while I can understand you think trains are nasty, I dont think these kids deserved what happened (not saying you think they do).
Having group s.e.x is something a lot of people are into, im not but I dont think you should be legally penalized for you consensual s.e.xual choices..now if they got an STD? okay but jail and their reputation ruined? Hell to the naw.
I mean I just cant get behind the sentiment that they dont deserve sympathy because they choose to have consensual s.e.x with a chick they didnt know.
I mean really if we all had to deal with legal repercussions for one night stands how many of us would have a clean record? LOL
@shay_d_lady, @Liz, while I can understand you think trains are nasty, I dont think these kids deserved what happened (not saying you think they do).
i’m not sure if she does either, but i actually think thats the implication. if you chose to participate in something deemed so disgusting, you get what you deserve. that’s how i read that.
challonj.
@Liz,
Really?
You don’t feel bad that they got sent to jail because a chick likes multipe yike? True, I find trains disgusting, but that doesn’t mean I don’t feel bad that these cats got hit with a rape charge by a chick who wanted to avoid public shaming.
I missed the memo that explained that poor sexual decisions preclude you from empathy. Maybe I should join Facebook or something. It seems to me that these guys made a bad sexual decision and because of their choice that means that they deserve whatever comes to them in your opinion.
That doesn’t work for me.
@Liz,
Cold-blooded. If them boys engaged in consensual chex, they don’t deserve to be put in jail. Period.
@Luvvie,
Kinda like a black high school boy athleate having chex with his fellow high school cheerleading 2520… Not against the law… Just a reallllllllllllly bad choice!
@Lanieanna,
Ask ol’ boy….Genarlow Wilson.
She wasn’t a cheerleader, but…you’ve heard the story before…lol
@miss t-lee,
That was effing tragic. I think she recanted at some point and he still got locked up for statutory rape, right?
@Me fail english?,
Sure did.
I’ve thought about this as well, and I honestly don’t know how a situation like that should be handled. on one hand, these boys are going to be forever branded as rapists, even though she recanted, and that’s f*cked up.
on the other hand, prosecuting women who’ve proven to be liars will probably dissuade more women who’ve actually been raped to come forward, simply because the majority of rapes come down to “he said, she said”.
honestly, I think the best way to handle it might be complete anonimity for all involved, unless there’s a guilty verdict.
@The Champ, i agree with anonymity. those men’s lives are ruined because of a lie. a reputation is ruined after that. in fact, i think panama is correct, that someone should pay for character assasination. the only people that recover from accusations like that are celebrities. but regular folk should be protected as well.
@Miss Patterson,
Her a$$ needs to be dragged through the mud, talked bad about, legally prosecuted…all that ish! When shyt like this happens, what I think about is all the blk men locked up, behind broads just like her who didnt have the decency or respect to recant to protect their reputation. I think if she deserves anything, it is credit for doing that, but she would have not got a thank you from me for that. SHE LIED! If they prosecute her a$$ it will send a message alright… DONT LIE ABOUT GETTING RAPED!!
There are levels of severity that determines punishment for rape, just as there is for murder. You got 1st degree, 2nd degree, manslaughter/ crime against nature, karnal knowledge of a juvie, forceable rape, sexual assult…so on and so forth. All rape crimes are not the same. I do believe rape is wrong… it is a huge violation, and men should not minimize this, because they too can get raped (and yes,im talking about that precious tender a$$hole)….. but do i think that the punishment of a man jumpin out of a van, snatching a lady, beating her, raping and sodomizing her, leaving her for dead, should fit the same punishment of intoxicated parties getting frisky, one thing leading to another, and with 1 moment of clarity be told no, and now a ninja got a rape charge?
“Anonymity” how the heck is that fair for the innocent party? Rape is the worst crime next to taking a persons life. To have a Rape accusition is horrible. I sell franchises for a living. when i get ready for a closing, I have to run a criminal background check on everyone who purchases a franchise from my company. That shyt shows up. Everything a person is charged with is going to show up on a criminal background check. It may not show up as a conviction, but it shows up as a charge. You dont think the people that see that don’t give the side eye and say “hmmmmmmmm?”.
i know my post is all over the place… but this whole story…. aaagh!
@Lanieanna,
“Her a$$ needs to be dragged through the mud, talked bad about, legally prosecuted…all that ish! When shyt like this happens, what I think about is all the blk men locked up, behind broads just like her who didnt have the decency or respect to recant to protect their reputation. I think if she deserves anything, it is credit for doing that, but she would have not got a thank you from me for that. SHE LIED! If they prosecute her a$$ it will send a message alright… DONT LIE ABOUT GETTING RAPED!!”
I’m in complete agreeance.
@The Champ,
can’t they sue her for slander or libel or something? I mean if nothing else they should be able to do that right??
@Ro, It’s hard to bring suit against another private actor….and furthermore what would be their compensation? I guess she could be forced to walk around with a shirt saying “im a lying a$$ smitch” but it just probably better to let it go….smh
@Blacklaw, i’m pretty sure she already is rocking that shirt…at least that’s what everybody is reading on her shirt, even if it has invisible ink.
@Ro,
“can’t they sue her for slander or libel or something? I mean if nothing else they should be able to do that right??”
i mean, they could, but i really don’t see the point in suing a broke-ass college freshman. what do you gain from that?
@The Champ,
Anonymity is a probably the best option/solution I’ve heard; sealed case pending a guilty verdict.
Bond.
@The Champ,
Thank you. I feel like this is the only sound solution. I hate when the media tries to stick that freedom of press BS in this argument. This is not a robbery! We all know there’s a different stigma attached to people accused of sex crimes, plus in the event the victim is being truthful, releasing the names of accusers makes it THAT much easier to identify alleged victims. I dont see why members of the press arent being called to answer for this unethical ish.
@The Champ,
Anonimity is the best solution I’ve heard, but if there’s a not guilty verdict in a case in which the accuser recants, I think the accuser should still prosecuted and face public humiliation after it’s all said and done. In addition to court costs, the individual(s) who was falsely accused deserve some type of justice or compensation for having to deal with it in the first place.
@Monk,
I thought about this as well.
But in this case, authorities decided not to prosecute the accuser after she recanted beccause they believed if they charged her it would prevent other women who lie about sexual assault from coming out and telling the truth.
At least she was kicked out of school.
@The Champ,
“honestly, I think the best way to handle it might be complete anonimity for all involved, unless there’s a guilty verdict.”
Definitely!
@The Champ,
Personally, I’d keep a copy of the video on me at all times…
Any time, someone called me a rapist…I’d hit play
end of discussion
@The Champ,
Agreed.
also, and I know we’ve joked about this before here, but sh*t like this and the gray consent zone is the main reason why you probably shouldn’t have sex while intoxicated or with intoxicated people
well, this and whisky wang.
@The Champ,
grey consent zone is bad. that’s why if a dude is doing anything that resembles g@ng banging or drunk s3x he should just say ‘no’.
i know there are some folks who want to have their freaky college conquests, but no one ever stops to think that even if it was consensual and no one ‘cried rape’ that they would still be ashamed to have that information publicized in any regard. so, why are men and women engaging in these demoralizing acts to begin with? that’s what i want to know.
@Miss Patterson, i think you’re getting into murky waters with that one. though most of us can say running a train isn’t the best use of one’s time, some people might think that doggystyle is just disgusting and that if it aint missionary, then you’re partaking in demoralizing acts. i mean, who sets the bar on that. people have fetishes of all kinds, not just sexual. (despite the judgement post yesterday) i can’t really go calling what other folks do behind closed doors ugly (unless it comes to light – cleveland mayor, i’m looking at you).
its easy to say if you’d be ashamed if your mama knew, you shouldn’ t do it. but hell, i dont want my mama knowing 90 percent of the stuff i do. i want her on that eulogy plan – everything about me is great.
@Panama Jackson,
” can’t really go calling what other folks do behind closed doors ugly (unless it comes to light – cleveland mayor, i’m looking at you).”
*snickering*
I JUST saw that…lol
@miss t-lee,
LOL…yeah, those Cleveland mayor pics were um…something.
@Cheekie,
Yeah “something” is the way to put it…lol
@Panama Jackson,
lol@ the eulogy plan.
Who wants their mama to know ANY of that stuff? And to be frank, I dont wanna know any of that stuff about my mama. Luckily that wont happen as my mama is pure as the driven snow. HALLELUJAH!
@The Champ,
co-sign the non-drunk chex. I’ve never been into the drunk romp. One, because I have an ego (laughs): I wouldn’t be at peace with a woman being drunk to be with me. Two, for reasons of consent. It sounds crazy, but since I was young when I hear ‘no’ I shut it down, no matter how far it has gone at that point.
Unfortunately there are too many games being played during the dating process and I am not willing to risk my liberty or life simply to play.
Bond. BlkBond.
@BlkBond,
“It sounds crazy, but since I was young when I hear ‘no’ I shut it down, no matter how far it has gone at that point.”
That doesn’t sound crazy. It sounds like decency.
@Sunny,
Yeah, co-sign. The opposite sounds crazy, actually.
@Sunny,
No, it is not decency or crazy. It is pure self protection. That is my motto as well.
However, unlike The Champ, I don’t have to hear that word every 5 minutes.
@The Champ,
“sh*t like this and the gray consent zone is the main reason why you probably shouldn’t have sex while intoxicated or with intoxicated people”
I think you should clarify: you should not
a) have sex while intoxicated with someone who is not your partner or
b) have sex with an intoxicated person who is not your partner.
Drunken monkey love with your boo every now and then is perfectly fine and encouraged on birthdays and rainy Friday’s in spring.
@V.E.G., Drunken monkey love with your boo every now and then is perfectly fine and encouraged on birthdays and rainy Friday’s in spring.
LMAO!!! EXACTLY…My birthday is Oct 15 and I plan on having lots and lots of drunken monkey love…
@V.E.G.,
“Drunken monkey love with your boo every now and then is perfectly fine and encouraged on birthdays and rainy Friday’s in spring.”
LMAO u stoopid
@V.E.G.,
I think you should clarify: you should not
a) have sex while intoxicated with someone who is not your partner or
b) have sex with an intoxicated person who is not your partner.
Drunken monkey love with your boo every now and then is perfectly fine and encouraged on birthdays and rainy Friday’s in spring.
lol, this is all very true.
@The Champ, the thing about this story is that she was not drunk. If she was drunk, under NYS statutes (at least my understanding of it, correct me if I’m wrong) this would still qualify as rape because a person cannot give consent to sex under the influence.
@Peysonic Temple,
Yeah I didn’t hear anything about the girl being drunk either. But wouldnt you have to be drunk to a certain level like with DUI vs. DWI.
@Me fail english?, naw its not
Me fail english?, naw its not because the crime is usually reported after the fact and their is no way to get an accurate BAC. Furthermore, the statute of limitations is 7 years on these crimes
@The Champ,
What the fudge is whisky wang?
@WuDaMan,
when intoxication has an effect on your, ummm, sexual performance
@The Champ,
and whisky wang.
It’s not whiskey wang, it’s her funky *ss liquor breath turning me off….
@Stuff Ghetto People Like,
lol. Sounds like you’ve had this fight before.
@Me fail english?,
Sounds like you’ve had this fight before.
Sounds like he’s had all kinds of fight before.
I luh ya SGPL *grins –>
*
These all are basically kids that do not have the maturity to make intelligent decisions as of yet. Wanting to have fun and create a memory to laugh and joke about for years to come almost cost them their freedom.
This girl also pisses me off for not initially being truthful and essentially holding the fate of these dudes’ future in her hands.
Additionally, I am always afraid of the presumption of guilt when anything involving men, women and sex (i.e. rape, harassment). I feel you on not placing the burden of proof on the “victim”. But without this tape, these dudes would have been up the creek and somethings just doesn’t sit well with me about that.
@Men’s Playbook,
Yeah, that presumption of guillt stigma is a bytch. Even if no crime was committed, the “accused rapist” title remains forever.
@Monk, its like “grammy nominated” only the exact opposite.
@Men’s Playbook
“These all are basically kids that do not have the maturity to make intelligent decisions as of yet. ”
I just want to say that the decisions that these students made are defined by their age or their being undergraduates. Grown folks make these same decisions all the time (especially on weekends and during homecomings).
And again, some people view sex as an ends to a means or a form of entertainment. If it’s fun why not? Of course their are consequences to these kinds of actions, but for certain kinds of folks, that’s their twist.
@Mini, i was thinkin the same thing. can’t blame this on their age. you know by the age of bout 5 the difference between a good choice and a bad one.
even still, they didn’t commit a crime, and the chick shouldn’t have lied.
@Men’s Playbook,
welcome and sh*t
@The Champ, Thanks!
what she did is despicable, but it does add fuel to my “h* sh*t is not inherent is us” womens campaign.
@overit,
“Ho-Sh*t aint the Riht sh*t” campaign? Yall got tshirts?
@Luvvie,
no.
i’m with Liz on this one. i can’t stand a liar. nor any nastiness that involves a train.
this same EXACT scenario went down at morehouse while i was at cau in 1996/1997. the woman, a spelman student, had a train ran on her and the next day reported the crime as rape. her roommate’s parent sat on some board at spelman and got Dr. Cole involved and all hell broke loose. next thing you know 4 students ranging in age from 18-20 were all accused of rape. not only that, their full names, PICTURES, hometowns, and sports affiliations were printed in, get this…the Atlanta Journal-Constitution!! Luckily for me, (i’m being facetious here) I was the only woman in my English class at Morehouse. It was not pretty. One day, Dr. Rahming, our professor, stopped class and allowed us to have an open round table about the event. the overwhelming opinion was that she was a liar. some agreed that the dudes were in the wrong either way, even it was consensual. the majority voiced opinions that echoed a ‘she got what she deserved’ sort of sentiment. still no one wanted to say that anything was wrong with trains. in the end, i think i got one word in edgewise, but it was a very tense moment. everyone was against the female accuser. a friend of mine who was in the class made a good point that day. he said that ‘yes we all know some dudes who have run trains and personally that sh*t ain’t cool, but these guys are like the sacrificial lambs of the act itself. and this going to be one huge PR nightmare for morehouse. i felt like as a woman i needed to defend her regardless of whether or not she was down or not. the tension and overall climate of the AUC that semester was man vs. woman. and everyone was acting like trains were as common as church on a sunday.
in the end, all four men were suspended from morehouse. their academic and basketball careers ruined and the woman finally confessed to it being consensual. she was also transferred to another school. d@mn. i can’t stand when people cry wolf about rape, because when it happens to REAL VICTIMS, they are treated unfairly and with little respect as if it’s their fault. will all of these stories i feel like all of us, men and women should learn a lesson.
@Miss Patterson,
“i can’t stand when people cry wolf about rape, because when it happens to REAL VICTIMS, they are treated unfairly and with little respect as if it’s their fault”
Absolutely! I think the problem is that some people just don’t understand how serious rape is. They don’t understand what it does to the victim, or that we, as a society have a duty to treat rape as strongly as possible. That’s the only explanation that I can think of for such a heinous abuse of societal trust.
@Miss Patterson,
This was before we got there; I remember hearing about this from the older brother of a girl I was dating. From what I understand, the roommate was the one who ‘initiated’ the accusation.
Trains may be common in some places (shrugs). I can recall several girls in H.S. who the football team would run through. I remember going on my first trip to D.C. and a girl offering to get the train started w/ me and the other attractive guy; she didn’t offer this to anybody else.
Be mindful that you do NOT know what is said or done behind closed doors.
My reply in it’s entirety is on my blog under ‘Defenseless’.
Bond. BlkBond.
@BlkBond, i just read it. interesting argument…the feminist movement angle, that is. my eyes are jittery now. more later. i’m not sure if it’s because i’m not wearing my glasses or because of that white print on black background. my eyes feel weak.
@BlkBond, Good blog post.
@Miss Patterson,
“i felt like as a woman i needed to defend her regardless of whether or not she was down or not”
Why? I feel like in the interest of assuring sexual crimes are taken more seriously we have to make sure we do NOT defend women who falsely claim rape (I really hate the term “cry rape”). I’m not sure if some women are just naturally freaky, or they were abused as children, or have self-destructive tendencies, but for whatever reason, some women are ok with it (multiple partners in a single session).
I love that in a room full of men you were down to stand up for another sister and let “our” side of the story be heard…but I’m not sure there’s any argument to be made for her sexual preferences. I guess Im trying to say, I’m not sure why everybody’s focusing on the train aspect as opposed to the sexual violence/false accusation part of the story. What position she was in when/how many partners seems inconsequential.
@Me fail english?, I love that in a room full of men you were down to stand up for another sister and let “our” side of the story be heard…but I’m not sure there’s any argument to be made for her sexual preferences. I guess Im trying to say, I’m not sure why everybody’s focusing on the train aspect as opposed to the sexual violence/false accusation part of the story. What position she was in when/how many partners seems inconsequential.
Exactly. I feel that trains are ho shyt behavior and no shyt I am down for. Thats my opinion. However, as long as its consensual? you can do what you like
(unless you like gangbanging).. I dont get all the “they got what they deserve” sentiments because they ran a train. Just like if the chick participated in a train and then got rape I wouldnt feel she deserved it because she previously consented. NO means NO and yes means yes.
@shay_d_lady,
Yup. I wonder what alot of our grandmothers would think if they knew some of the stuff we’ve done out of wedlock. I’m hoping not “Me fail deserves to be humiliated! Runnin ’round doin missionary wit her nasty ass”
@Me fail english?,
“Me fail deserves to be humiliated! Runnin ’round doin missionary wit her nasty ass”
LMAO!
@Me fail english?, clearly, i’m with you 100 percent today.
i think the fact that it was a train, and the subsequent focus on such totally obscures the point that this woman played with these guys freedom on such a whim. she didnt want to get in trouble or look like a ho-bag so she was like…rape it is.
i dont care if it was a train or the damn cavalry. or just one tiny midget with a heart of gold.
@Panama Jackson, not a tiny midget with a heart of gold! what did i tell you about making me laugh in the office. d@mn you!
@Panama Jackson,
or just one tiny midget with a heart of gold
LOL
@Me fail english?,
I feel like in the interest of assuring sexual crimes are taken more seriously we have to make sure we do NOT defend women who falsely claim rape (I really hate the term “cry rape”).
Agree with that wholeheartedly. Where I’m from, the burden is placed on the victim to prove that she has been raped, and finding yourself in the same room as a member of the opposite s!ex is enough proof for the law to find you guilty. Therefore, I hate with a passion all those liers who make the job or real victims so much harder… You had a minute of bad judgement, it happens to the best of us on the best of days. To transform that into a story about being raped, as if it was just a simple fact is ultimate foul.
She deserves NO sympathy…. and I am a proud feminist/womanist.
A friend of mine got accused of rape in high school by a girl who liked him. He was in jail for 4 and a half months before it was proven that he was in another city when the “rape” took place. He missed two halves of semesters of high school, moving back and forth from Public School to CYA, back to public school. Basically failed the 11th grade. If he ever gets accused of rape again (even if it’s 40 years from now), prosecutors will say “This isn’t the first time he’s been accused of rape. It’s a pattern of behavior.”
He was on track to go to college. Instead, got his GED. Last I heard, he was working as an asst. manager at a CVS. Nothing wrong with that, but not what he had planned for his life. He said just the allegation changed his whole life.
She went on as if nothing ever happened. Went to Grambling, probably doesn’t even remember what she did when she was 15. Men are victims of rape accusations too often. I’m glad that I’m not the only one who sees this problem. I like The Champ’s idea of anonymity until the guilty verdict. I wish I knew how else to stop this without holding rape survivors to too high a standard of proof…
@CleverScreenName, i’m so sorry for your friend. that’s terrible.
@CleverScreenName,
That is a horrible and unfortunate story. This is a problem that needs to be seriously addressed. Most people believe that once the lie is discovered, it’s over, when it is not. Often times these guys suffer judgment that can hamper their employment, future relationships, friendships, etc.
Bond.
@CleverScreenName,
That is the problem. There is no mechanism for punishing a false accusation. Once we get a viable solution, I won’t get nearly as heated when reading about this type of BS.
I look at it like this, this could happen to any man. That thought alone has me in a rage I don’t usually get in.
I had a friend get accused of sexual assault in HS. He was suspended for quite some time behind it. I knew he didn’t do it. The girl in question wasn’t even someone he flirted with. I think he said something slick to her and she dropped an accusation.
@CleverScreenName, A friend of mine got accused of rape in high school by a girl who liked him. He was in jail for 4 and a half months before it was proven that he was in another city when the “rape” took place.
that’s the part that truly truly bothers me. how the f*ck can it take that long to determine dude couldn’t even possibly have done it? i was just arguing with a friend of mine about my distrust in the justice system’s ability to accurately dole out justice. we have too many examples of people wrongly accused of crimes that are now being released 20 some odd years after being convicted.
but i’m also torn b/c without due diligence, you dont get proper criminals of the sexual variety off the street.
the line between freedom and life in prison is just far too thin. one word can put you away for years.
@Panama Jackson,
“the line between freedom and life in prison is just far too thin. one word can put you away for years.”
Word. Realest shyt ever.
@CleverScreenName,
I want to break her face…. And I hate men who hit women.
It’s crazy when people tell lies that have real legal consequences. It’s like when chicks call the popo on a man and claim he hit them, when he brushed against them on his way out the door.
Don’t y’all realize that once the police get involved, everything is beyond your control?
Black should no better than to have the police resolving our conflicts. That is some stupid ish.
@CleverScreenName,
He was in jail for 4 and a half months before it was proven that he was in another city when the “rape” took place
sh*t like this scares the hell out of me. i can’t imagine having to sit in a jail cell for even a day until i was exonerated, but sh*t that happens all the time. all you need is to be accused of some sh*t
@The Champ,
“sh*t that happens all the time. all you need is to be accused of some sh*t”
Right!! This why I feel the system is greatly flawed. Once you spend a minute in a cell for a crime you did not commit, the arms of justice has already been broken. You can never get that time back and whatever else that transpires as a result makes it a wash.
First of all, women – stop letting men do this. There’s nothing sexy about being passed around like a plate of leftover cookies. A few folks on Twitter were trying to act like trains were an expression of a woman’s sexual freedom. STOP. THE. MADNESS.
Secondly, men – stop doing this. You passed around one cookie and licked it after one, two, three other folks did. Ewww and ugh! I can’t say anymore about trains without feeling a little nauseous. The entire situation was nasty all the way around. From the train to the lies to the videotaping to the aftermath.
I do feel, however, that there has to be SOME repercussion for telling a lie that gets people hauled off in handcuffs, reputations irreparably damaged. The same way no one deserves to be raped, no one deserves to be falsely accused of it. Crime is serious sh!t. For all the jokes about catching cases and busting caps, NO one wants the drama, hassle, humiliation and heartbreak that criminal culpability brings with it. I don’t want real rape victims to feel skittish about coming forward and I don’t want men filming all of their consensual sex acts to avoid being accused.
There’s got to be a better way.
@OneChele, yeah trains are some nasty sh*t. i don’t care how you look at it. whether you’re first or last -you shared. psychologically, something has to be wrong a person that engages in this act- both giver and receiver. it almost makes me wonder if people that engage in this act aren’t victims of some sort of sexual abuse themselves as children or adolescents.
@Miss Patterson,
You know, some people (men and women) enjoy group sex. It’s a fact of life for some people. When a man says that he wants two women at once, we don’t assume that he’s being disrespected by the women or that he’s been sexually abused. Why the other way around? I just went to Craigslist Casual Encounters section in 10 different random cities and all of them had multiple listings under W4MM (women, looking to have sex with multiple men). I say if it’s consensual, and they’re all adults, then fine. The problem comes when one of the people involved gets remorseful the next day.
@CleverScreenName,
“I say if it’s consensual, and they’re all adults, then fine. The problem comes when one of the people involved gets remorseful the next day.”
Major co-sign. I don’t think we should get caught up judging other people’s sex lives. Trouble pops up when someone is not adult enough to deal with what they chose to do.
@CleverScreenName,
Well said and complete cosign.
@CleverScreenName,
Yeah, when it comes to stuff of a sexual nature, I say to each his/her own…whatever floats your boat. I do think that running a train is a bi-sexual act even if you’re just touching the woman though and I want no parts of that. NTTAWWT.
@OneChele,
Yeah I feel like we’re letting a criminal walk free by not charging the girl. But that’s only because in this specific case I think this particular girl was lying.
What of other cases? What about times when a victim, sensing that there’s no escape “goes along with it” and consents under coercion? Even on a video tape you wouldnt be able to tell there was a rape. If you’ve ever been close to a victim you know what a nightmare it can be proving that sex was not consensual. There’s TONS of room for reasonable doubt (which is, I believe, all you need to be acquitted of rape).
On the one hand I wonder if the threat of prosecution would give real victims a reason not to recant (as sometimes happens) once they accuse. But on the other hand it would probably make victims reluctant to accuse in the first place. Also, false accusers would NEVER admit to lying if they thought there was a chance they could outwit the courts. So I guess in the end, I dont really want the liar punished.
@Me fail english?,
Yeah, Nathan McCall talked about some coercion situations in his book. I feel horrible about what some cats do with chicks.
It’s a complicated situation and Champ’s suggestion would help, but part of me really likes what Panama suggested. A part of me wants people to pay when they do me dirty. I want some vengance dammit.
@OneChele,
There’s nothing sexy about being passed around like a plate of leftover cookies.
leftover sugar cookies are sexy though, especially if theyre still soft
@The Champ, —–>corner.
This is definitely a toughie. I look at this from different perspectives and still end up at confusion
As a non-reporter…no need to repeat reasons listed above
As the mother of a son…should poor judgment (the train and/or allegation of such) alter his entire future?
As the mother of daughters…I wouldn’t want them to feel like they have to be non-reporters
I think it is really unfair to say that because someone engaged in activity that we find objectionable but is legal (consensual running of the train/group sex, drinking to excess, abortion, pick a hot button issue) then that person is not worthy of having the same opportunities in life as the rest of us. Maybe I’m oversimplifying?
The idea of anonymity until the conclusion of a case is compelling but in the age of 24 hour news, the professional attention seeker & Twitter, how realistic is it?
I do think that laws against filing false police reports should be enforced and that civil action should be pursued against the liar/accuser.
@EbonyI,
Cosign infinitely.
Bond. BlkBond.
@EbonyI, I do think that laws against filing false police reports should be enforced and that civil action should be pursued against the liar/accuser.
i wonder what the laws are in each of our 50 states regarding penalties for false police reports? if i have a son, we will have a long talk the day he reaches adolescence.
@Miss Patterson,
I agree but I think the talk needs to start way before that, imo. There are little folk in kindergarten talking about sex (or what they think is sex). In this world where information is readily available we need to arm our children beyond what we think is best. Children see far more than what we think they do.
@Smiley Face,
Word. There is no “talk” anymore. Its a lifelong, ongoing discussion. Depending on the age you temper what details/language/examples you share. I got two neices and I take any opportunity I damn well please to have “the talk”. I could tell they were embarrassed at first but they’re comfortable now and trust my info. Better than their dumb ass friends teachin em. (I’ve gone off on a tangent).
@Me fail english?, (I’ve gone off on a tangent).
No you haven’t…it needs to be said until we (humans) get it!
@EbonyI,
“24 hour news, the professional attention seeker & Twitter, how realistic is it?”
It is actually quite realistic and possible. The Central Park Jogger’s identity was protected for FOURTEEN years, until she went public. The media usually respects the privacy of assault victims and won’t reveal their identity unless the victim chooses to speak. Obviously, there are times when the media overstep their bounds but laws could put a stop to that.
In terms of folks on FB, Twitter, etc. spreading unconfirmed rumors (i.e Rihanna gave Chris Brown herpes that is why he beat her…fools and the internet; I tell ya), there isn’t much you can do about that cuz those spaces aren’t yet regulated. But the main stream media can be stopped.
@EbonyI,
It seems lots of folks – men and women alike – are SUPER liberal in their harsh snap judgments once they factor in a choice they deem as undersirable/bad/lacking in morals. Actually, I’ve heard mind boggling commentary and gross generalizations in random exchanges regarding those who were molested, raped, etc that it I shouldn’t surprised because to an extent were desensitzed. The deal with it and get over it mentality is strong, so perhaps this contributes to people’s abilities to nonchalantly throw a false accusation out there — believing society will want to deal with the transgression swiftly, so everyone just can move past it…
Foolishness like this will only make it more difficult for those who have endured sexually based offenses to choose to come forward. And of course, as the number of non-reporters grows, it will make those who do report even more highly scrutinized.
@EbonyI,
“The idea of anonymity until the conclusion of a case is compelling but in the age of 24 hour news, the professional attention seeker & Twitter, how realistic is it?”
while the rumor mill is always going to exist, keeping names out of actual news sources goes a long way. despite twitter’s popularity, people still go to google or a cnn or a local news affilate to verify the truth of what they’ve heard on twitter
My answer is on my blog. Link below:
http://blkbond.blogspot.com/2009/09/defenseless.html
Bond. BlkBond.
@BlkBond,
I read your blog. you made some interesting points. I’ll comment on your blog later.
@N.I.A. is 2 sexxy for her shirt….,
More people @ today’s monicre
@WuDaMan,
yeah, I kept forgetting to change it to something more suitable for today’s post. So, I just decided to keep it….
And, I don’t need more people, Mr. Wu.
Champ’s suggestion about anonymity for all parties until conclusive evidence is gathered is on point.
Oh, uh, it wasn’t a video “tape” that exonerated them; it was the ubiquitous mobile phone digital video recorder. Score one for technocrap.
I damn sure ain’t a prude, however running trains is still grimy as sh*t.
@Srgt. Vernon Waters,
Oh, uh, it wasn’t a video “tape” that exonerated them; it was the ubiquitous mobile phone digital video recorder.
they should just be happy that it wasn’t a t-mobile phone. sh*t would have looked like the blair witch project
@The Champ, well there goes the sponsorship deal i’ve been working on for 4 months now.
good job Champ.
I know a lot of people have an issue with the ‘train’ – the women who let men run one on them and the men who participate. At the end of the day, what does a person’s sexual activities, or preferences, have to do with rape? For the record I have never participated in group sex nor have I had the desire to do so. I just personally believe that person can freak the entire south side of Chicago if you want to, three people at a time, if that floats their boat…but ‘no’ is ‘no’ and a lie is a lie.
The chick who lied should be prosecuted. State funds were wasted looking into this matter. She should have to perform community service and pay restitution. And I agree with Champ: when it comes to sexual assault cases, the case should be sealed until there is a guilty verdict.
Back to the train issue. The reality is this: a woman can be raped on what is perceived to be a romantic date: dinner at a nice restaurant, etc. And a woman can set up a guy who behaves like a perfect gentleman.
So, while I understand why folks are grossed out about the nature of the act these kids participated in, remember this: it’s legal and consensual. So I wouldn’t harp on that point too much.
I don’t think this has anything to do with poor decision making or even overly promiscuous behavior. Rather, it’s about one person not being mature enough to own up to their actions, realizing they made a personal mistake and dealing with it like an adult.
@V.E.G., you might have a point here. it does seem that we have convoluted the issue. But then again…there is something very disturbing about the act itself. I think adults should be able to engage in any of the consensual sexual behaviors they want…but just be willing to assume the risks that are associated with said behavior (e.g. STDs, Preggers, false accusations etc…)
@V.E.G.,
I think this is what’s pissing me off about the discourse. WHO GIVES AN EFF ABOUT THE TRAIN?!
Like one guy raping a woman on a satin bed covered in rose petals deserves the same treatment as another guy who gangbanged a consenting adult woman with his friends.
Um, hello! One of these guys will might just ask you to do some gross shet but another one will violently force you to do some traumatizing shet. How can the punishment for obnoxious behavior and straight predatory, violent behavior be the same.
I feel like this is the Victorian age or smthg.
@Me fail english?,
“I think this is what’s pissing me off about the discourse. WHO GIVES AN EFF ABOUT THE TRAIN?!”
That’s what I’m saying! I don’t give a good gotdayum what you (consent t) do, but own up to it, be responsible about it. Don’t go “oh hell what have I done?” the next day and point fingers! This is what this is (should be) about. Don’t lie and accuse people of foul mess when you know good and hell well that you were a willing party to it.
There are too many people out here that go without retribution for you to sit there and lie. I don’t care what you do with your yoni or your poni but don’t ruin someone’s life because you had regrets. Learn from it, live with it.
@Smiley Face,
Yes ma’am. ITA.
But seriously, I want this on a t-shirt.
“I don’t care what you do with your yoni or your poni “
@miss t-lee,
ggiirrrll! lol
@V.E.G., So, while I understand why folks are grossed out about the nature of the act these kids participated in, remember this: it’s legal and consensual. So I wouldn’t harp on that point too much.
that part has been driving me crazy too. who gives a f*ck about that part. why does that all of a sudden make it less bad that this chick lied?
@V.E.G.,
THIS… is truth
Well I hadn’t heard about this story, but now that I have and you asked for my opinion I have a few things:
#1: I know women and MEN who’ve been sexually assaulted and/or raped. Anyone who knows somebody who’s been a victim of an assault understands how difficult of a situation he said/she said can be because unfortunately most rapes/assaults become he said/she said. They also know how traumatic it can be to make the accusation as well as how traumatizing it can be to be accused. I think that’s why it is important to be clear as day as often as possible about your intentions with someone. I hate people who lead people on – male or female. Is a free drink really worth being put in an uncomfortable potentially dangerous situation an hour later? No.
#2: I would also like to say I personally think trains are the nastiest, dirtiest, foulest, most disgusting thing ever. (For example, I was dating this dude for a month when we played the “what’s the craziest thing you’ve done sexually” game. He told me during his early college days he’d run a train with some buddies. I was so disgusted I think I stopped seeing him within the next two days.) I don’t understand (nor do I want to) why a dude would participate in one.
#3: I hate attention seeking people. Step your self-esteem game up and stop looking for people to satisfy whatever ego-stroke you supposedly “need” (sympathy/empathy/concern/encouragement/attractiveness/intelligence, etc.)
NOW, all that being said I think we’re missing something here – this chick is may be troubled mentally. And its always unfortunate when you are accused of something by a mentally challenged/troubled person because they may not completely grasp A.) the act they participated in or B.) the damage they can cause by their accusation. Mentally challenged and depressed people are highly more likely to engage in risky sexually behavior.
“Just how motherf*cking selfish can you be to be willing to throw somebody else’s life away like that?”
I totally understand the sentiment of that statement. Especially in the context of the story you’d just told. However, as it pertains to this case this chick may be clinically narcissistic, paranoid schizophrenic, dissociative, or borderline metally retarded. I liken the Hofsta story to the McCain supporter last year who said she’d been attacked by a Obama supporter and they’d carved a “B” in her face – remember? http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/24/mccain.sticker/
She lied because she wanted some attention and she thought she’d be helping McCain – no one in their right mind would think that’s a logic course of action to help a presidential candidate or an appropriate way to get some one to care for/about you.
Look, its not my intent to give a pass to rapists or to say that nothing should happen to people who knowingly, purposely and maliciously lie or accuse someone of sexual assault out of spite, anger or for self-preservation. But when you’re dealing with mental illness all those deep dark punishments (ie – release her name! plaster her face on the news! give her the same amount of time they’d've gotten!) may not be the best remedy to the situation.
Here’s a little life advice from MZ – try your darndest to know who it is you are sleeping with before you sleep with them. As exciting and entertaining as a one night stand or random hook-up can be you are leaving yourself wide open to all types of potentially bad scenarios – shout out to Kobe Bryant. That’s what I’ve got.
@Madame Zenobia,
“However, as it pertains to this case this chick may be clinically narcissistic, paranoid schizophrenic, dissociative, or borderline metally retarded. ”
She may very well be emotionally disturbed ( i think she probably is too) but mildly retarded??? I’m sure other Hoftsra matriculants would take exception to that.
Also, I’d hate to be insensitive to issues I dont understand well (mental disease) but I just dont think that’s material to any of this. John Wayne Gacy was a textbook psychopath. His victims are no less dead. The four young men (and maybe the fifth for those who figured out his identity) are no less accused rapists (read: lifelong pariahs).
@Madame Zenobia, though i agree with you in principle, barring any info stating as such, i’m not gonna give her a pass (i know you’re not trying to) by saying she had issues so she did this.
she has issues but her issues could very well be that she realized how much a ho she was after the fact and realized her man was going to find out.
@Madame Zenobia,
#2
Never play this game. Somebody is pretty much guaranteed to learn something they didn’t want to know. It’s inevitable. I’ve learned my lesson about this game. Trying to reconcile your special feelings for a woman with the fact that she used to be known as the “Get it Low Hoe” is tough.
@Madame Zenobia,
I liken the Hofsta story to the McCain supporter last year who said she’d been attacked by a Obama supporter and they’d carved a “B” in her face – remember? http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/24/mccain.sticker/
lol, this sh*t happened three blocks away from where i live, and, if i recall, i think i fit the description of the guy she said did this to her.
Thank you for being of one of the few bloggers to discuss this story.
No one likes to talk about these issues because they stir up a lot of emotions, so thank you for stepping up to the mic to initiate some important dialogue about this terrible injustice.
I am the victim of a rape by a stranger. “VSB P aka…” is right, rape by a stranger is the less common situation. A majority of these offenses are typically acquaintance rapes. I’ve been to therapy. I’ve read books, and I’ve had a few (albeit mediocre) relationships since then. In other words, I SURVIVED. In spite of this, I’d like to know why the hell would anyone want to be a ‘fake rape victim’?
Is this woman insane? Seriously, do you know how insulting that is? The fact that she think it’s cool or safe to step into my shoes just to protect her ho’ azz from being labeled a whore is appalling.
A rape victim is marked (to some degree) for years. Don’t get me wrong, there is a great deal of empathy extended to a rape victim, at first. And then, come the questions: What were you wearing? Isn’t it a little late for you to be walking around at night? Why didn’t you scream louder? Why don’t you carry mace/know martial arts/fight like a ninja? Just like these men who are falsely accused of rape, we have to justify EVERY SINGLE ACTION as if we somehow willed this violation upon ourselves. The line of questioning gets really personal. Very personal. It’s like a second violation in front a room full of strangers. And then we have to recount the tale countless times to every police officer on the scene, family member, best friend, potential lover/husband (and risk alienation/abandonment), and one day maybe even our children.
Sure, rape victims are capable of moving on, smiling to strangers, forming lasting personal relationships and living productive and meaningful lives. We are by no means damaged goods. But then a situation like this happens and it reawakens everything to the CORE. And I’ll tell you why: each time an accuser is able to identify a predator, it is a small victory for rape victims everywhere and then…BAM! I learn it’s a all a joke. What the hell? The whole situation makes a mockery of a very personal and painful experience for all victims and it makes me sick.
I think that this woman should pay a hefty fine, do some time, and spend a day with me so that I can recount for her the kind of trauma a real victim deals with immediately after a violation of that magnitude. Shame on her.
P.S.- So that it’s clear, I don’t support these men’s choice of adult play either. I happen to think that train running is about as close to s*xual deviance as you can get without committing a crime, at least in some states. At the same it does not warrant being accused of a crime that literally will mark you for the rest of your life.
@Jane Doe, I agree whole heartedly with your post and Im sorry to hear about what has happened to you. Whenever I see the stats on abuse of women in the U.S. and world wide, sexual or otherwise I get fearful for the women and young girls in my family and circle. Thanks for giving voice to victims
Side note: “fight like a ninja” made me chuckle
@Jane Doe,
Thank you for sharing your story.
@Jane Doe,
ITA and thank you for sharing your story!
@Jane Doe,
welcome and sh*t, and thanks for sharing
I feel that if you accuse a man of rape and it comes out later it was a lie, the female should serve the amount of time the man would have for the alleged rape. It disgusts me when a woman cries wolf on rape. It makes it harder for real victims of the crime to get convictions.
side note: I also feel if you wanna have chex with someone that your not in a relationship with you should have them sign the Love Contract from the Chapelle Show. It could save your life
@ChaRX,
lol, welcome and sh*t, but i do think 20-40 years is a bit too long to serve in prison for a lie.
@The Champ,
Thanks for the welcome, but I’m all about sending a message lol
Some chicas are just the debil…This girl is a liar AND a cheat (and a super slore). And her man should not want her ,want her, want her no more!
@Da Iceman,
you’re a smart guy/thanks for the reply
I think you’ve said everything… it’s effed up what the accuser did… A chick I went to high school with accused these two seniors of raping her (we were freshmen). I don’t think any authorities were called but it was a big mess at school- they were supposed to be on gag order about it (but she ran her mouth) and they had meetings about it.
But I’m not so sure she was telling the truth, because she was back kickin it with them not too much longer after it allegedly occured.
*****I wonder if she knew she was being taped.*****
Yes, I think everything has been said. I’m siding with complete anonymity for everyone involved. I also think if a female lies about being raped she should be prosecuted for defamation of name or character (whatever the law is) or slander or liable…..I don’t know which one is appropriate (if either) because I’m not a lawyer. I just think something should happen to a person who tries to ruin a mans life.
@RunBabyRun, Don’t think the law will be terribly helpful but aint nothin wrong with calling ur sister up and having her beat that ho up….wait….that’s not right….my bad…..that chick should just apologizd to the boys and the boys should apologize to the women in their respective families
Done and Done
I just hate that fact that chicks wanna lie about being raped while they know good and well that they were down for getting down. *Full side eye*
It just makes it that much harder for someone who was actually raped to get their case heard.
Them kats better be glad they had video, it looks like they woulda been straight railroaded.
@miss t-lee, true she prolly woulda let them sit there in jail for a couple yrs at least….
@Blacklaw, And you know where you get raped for real? In Jail!
It’s obvious that everyone involved made decisions either without fully considering the potential consequences or taking the possibilities into consideration and deciding that whatever the experience would yield held enough value to proceed. That’s what humans do. And they all need to own that.
Ultimately, I still point to the underlying desensitization of us all to explain involvement in this kind of situation. The accusers’ ability bring these allegations – Thought process must be: It’s not a big deal to lie about something of this magnitude to them. Most already know they’re protected and embellish to the maximum to cement their underserved creditbility. The other sexually consenting adult(s) ability to put themselves in a predicament: My actions are in the here and now, consequences be damned. I’m gonna go with the flow and not consider how well I know this person that I’m bout to do the dam thing with, right quick…
The authorities need to do their due dilligence prior to publicizing or confirming any details. It would benefit everyone, all around.
@bittersweet’s baby,
Ultimately, I still point to the underlying desensitization of us all to explain involvement in this kind of situation
good point and sh*t. sh*t like this doesn;t happen if your shame meter is intact
There should be a national registry for women who falsely accused men of rape just like the one they have for sex offenders. If you falsely accuse someone of something like that, you should have your anonymity taken away.
@They call me mellow yellow…,
Hmm. Wow, I wonder if anyone has ever seriously considered this and how it would affect society.
Sidenote: Your moniker reminds me of that GAP commercial I used to love.
@Cheekie,
LOL. I started singing Donovan before I read this comment.
@They call me mellow yellow…,
I like your idea in theory, but in reality how do we classify “false” rape claims?
If the man is aquitted does that mean you get branded a liar and added to the registry? If the prosecutors decide not to move forward with the case what happens?
I like the idea of punishing people who like, but the pre-supposes that we will always be able to tell who is lying and who isn’t.
@Big Man,
Yeah. I could see a fake victims NEVER recanting if they know jail time is ahead. And in this case, the boys would never be vindicated.
“thank god for videotape.”
T-shirt? I’d rock it.
Anyway, I think this case speaks to another large problem – the system. We aren’t truly “innocent until proven guilty” at all. If we were, these young dudes would have never been arrested and branded with the inhumane title of rapist in the first place. I agree with The Champ’s position of anonymity, but there’s something severely flawed in the system if all someone has to do is LIE on you to get you arrested, serving an unknown amount of days, weeks, or months in the clink before you get your day in court. That’s f*cked up. When one is in a position like that, they’re at risk of losing not only their name and reputation but their job, their marriage (or relationship), their home, their car (if they can’t make mortgage or car payments cause they’re incarcerated).. everything.
Whether one admits it or not, certain laws like this are set up completely in the female’s favor. Granted most rape cases that are reported involve a female “victim” and a male “suspect”, but as with domestic violence, a male who is the alledged the victim is never taken as serious as a female. Although it is lees likely for a dude to come out and say that he was raped by a woman, it would be interesting to see if that woman is arrested based solely on an accusation and if so, what would be the differences in how she’s treated in the system.
@Monk,
“Whether one admits it or not, certain laws like this are set up completely in the female’s favor. ”
Not sure how you came to this conclusion. What “certain laws” are you referring to? No matter what the crime, the accused party is usually arrested. Also, as far as “the system” is concerned and who it “takes more seriously”, if you’ve ever known a vitcim of domestic violence, sexual assault, etc. you know the how difficult it can be for suspects to be convicted. I wouldnt say asking a rape victim “Well ho much were you drinking? What were you wearing? Didn’t you kiss him and call him handsome?” is “taking her more seriously”.
@Me fail english?,
SAY THAT! “What were you wearing?” Burns me up the most! I hate that question, I’ve seen what it can do. If she’s wearing sweatpants then it’s inferred that she should’ve worn something that wasn’t so easily taken off, if she’s wearing a skirt..end of story. She smiles, she’s leading him on…bullsh*t!
@Smiley Face,
Ugh. Years ago in Italy the courts threw out a woman’s rape case cause she was wearing jeans. Yep, the judge decided there was no realistic scenario in which a woman could ever be forced to take off her jeans.
Oh snap! I almost forgot. what about the PR Day Parade like 10 years where girls got groped, assaulted and forcefully penetrated with everything from fingers to water bottles and fools were actually asking well why were they wearing those sundresses. It’s 90 degrees out a*hole!!!
@Me fail english?,
ggrrrrrrr!!
@Me fail english?,
Oh that was just flippin’ ridiculous.
@Me fail english?,
I just think it’s interesting because I’ve NEVER heard of a female being arrested behind a false rape accusation from a guy. I’m a firm believer that society would look at that situation a lot differently. Re: the system, I just think it’s too easy to have someone arrested and their life turned upside down based on a lie. I recall a story from a few years back when a white woman killed her three children and simply said a black man (or hispanic…I can’t remember) did it and the law took her word off the jump and had the person arrested and they had no involvement whatsoever. Regardless of gender, there’s something inherently wrong with that.
@Monk,
I agree. But like Panama said upthread. The alternative would be criminals walking the streets longer.
Last year a girl my sister went to school with was killed by her children’s father. She had an order of protection and a long record of domestic abuse calls against this man. Don’t ask me why but for some reason they could never arrest dude (even though he was actually putting hands on her, her cousin AND her mom!). They’d just always make him leave or lock him up and send him home the next day. By the way, this happened in the very same county as the Hofstra case. In fact, in the same county a few years prior, another girl my sis went to school with was shot and killed by her ex. She had a panic button that alerted police to when he came thru and everything.
That’s why I can’t agree with the notion that females are so well protected at the expense of men. If they were, ol’ girl would probably still be alive.
@Me fail english?,
Someone having a history of domestic calls against them and someone who has violated the law numerous times to the point where old girl had the alert button for the cops are not the cases I’m talking about. In a case such as the Hofstra, I don’t believe these dudes had any records of rape or sexual abuse (as far as I know) so to be locked up on a whim is not justice. It’s kinda like a female can just tell a lie on a dude for whatever reason and have him arrested and although that’s an extremely evil act, there are some females who do and have done this. It’s just seem too easy to me.
@Monk,
But in making general statements like “Certain laws are completely set up in the female’s favor” you’re making a judgment about the law as it affects not only the Hofstra case, but any case wherein women are typically victims and men are typically aggressors.
My point in bringing up those examples is that in the very same county within 3 years of each other at most, those very same laws most def did NOT work in the woman’s favor. Its not about the laws so much as its about individuals who enforce or interpret the law and how they choose to react.
@Me fail english?,
I’ve seen countless times how things like this play out in the females favor with no type of justice for the males who were falsely accused of such acts. Maybe it’s not the law (itself), but it is it’s interpretation, the police, and the courts, AND EVEN SOCIETY who show more sympathy towards the female in situations like this. Even in this post, these dudes have been demonized basically just because they participated in a consensual sex act. It’s like society WANTS to place blame on the male to alleviate some of the blame that may lay on the female. And if the shoes were on the other foot, people and some law enforcers would look at it as a joke if a dude went to the police talking about a woman raped him. The societal double standard that does exist is what I’m referring to.
@Monk, Although it is lees likely for a dude to come out and say that he was raped by a woman, it would be interesting to see if that woman is arrested based solely on an accusation and if so, what would be the differences in how she’s treated in the system.
Males are the normal perpetrators of violent crimes against everybody. If you want more justice for the male outliers that are victimized by females, maybe you should rally your brothers to stop being rapists, wife beaters, and murderers – then maybe the criminal justice system can free up some man power to more swiftly address that 2.5% of males that go to the police when they are victimized at the hands of women.
@pgh muse,
Word. I’d be more curious to see how male rape victims are treated when they accuse other males. I’d bet they go through a whole ‘nother type of hell.
@pgh muse,
And females are the normal perpetrators of calling the authorities and falsely accusing males, but that’s not the point. My point is I’m sure both cases will be looked at differently if it was a male who cried wolf.
1. If a girl wants a train ran, so what. There always have been nasty girls, always will be.
2. Dudes know that with train running, they are dealing with an unstable h*es with low self esteem and rape acusations comes with the territory. (that’s prob why they taped it)
3.Is it messed up they went to jail? NO you live triflin you gonna go through triflin thangs
4.I was thinking that stiffer penalties from liars would prevent future false acusations, but proving that the woman was purposely lying could be hard.
5Real rape victims wouldn’t step up, if they are scared that they might do time.
Ex: if I go on a date and drink heavily and then I tell my date no and he does it anyway
Would I go to the police the next day, if there were a small chance that I might get locked up because a man might feel he didn’t rape?
@flamboyantchiq,
“Dudes know that with train running, they are dealing with an unstable h*es with low self esteem and rape acusations comes with the territory.”
I’m not sure this is true. These dudes were undergrad-aged (like 20 and younger). I know they probably watch Maury and Dr. Phil but to know they’re dealing with low self-esteem and rape accusations seems like alot to ask of a teenaged boy. And as a full grown woman Im not so sure of that myself. “Demeaning” is in the eye of the beholder. I’ve seen women on tv who seems to have plenty of respect for themselves who say that they’re swingers cause they like it. What about powerful men that like to be bound, gagged and spanked? Do they have underlying problems? Maybe. But to automatically assume they were molested or crazy cuz they do things sexually that I think is nasty is a major stretch
@Me fail english?,
Me and you are >here< today! I TA!
@Me fail english?,
Yes, ma’am!
All I can say is, I hope something unfortunate happens to her later in life, short of death.
@Stank-0, honey never wish bad things on folk because people reap what they sow as the day is long..thats a promise and universal truth.
@OrangeStar616,
I agree. The above statement alleges you believe in karma, Stank-O…well, karma is equal opportunity. Wishing someone else ill will is no different than any other negative karma.
@Stank-0,
All I can say is, I hope something unfortunate happens to her later in life, short of death.
lol, she’s already been branded as a liar and a ho, and was kicked out of school. i think thats enough.
@The Champ,
Yeah. I’m not sure I even believe in karma (which is to say I definitely don’t. haha) but this girl dug her own grave. I wouldn’t be surprised if she was on suicide watch at this point.
One of the most widely circulated, dailies in her (and my own) hometown has had her name, picture and neighborhood published at least once. Not to mention her name is pretty unique. She’s not getting away with ANYTHING.
I agree with Champ anonymity is the best policy for the accuser and accused.
My cousin was assualted by an ex. (right around the time of the Mike Tyson fiasco). She reported it. They investigated her past and turned her into the victim. Her first time on the stand they brought up the fact that she lost her virginity at a young age, the number of s.exual partners she’d had and how she was overall a woman of “questionable” morals.
It was a horrible situation, and she ended up moving out of town to get away from it all. She never even returned to court to find out the verdict.
After witnessing that, I was sexually assualted and I did not choose to come forward because It was a person I considered a friend and I was intoxicated and I worked at a strip club. I figured I would go through the same thing and it wasnt worth it, I would deal with it myself.
I say all of that because while I think this situation is terrible and lil momma should be punished, in the end the real victim of this crime will be future rape victims, especially any victim that reports a rape within the next couple of months/years.
@shay_d_lady, I meant to say “turned her into the defendant”
@shay_d_lady,
Ugh. Sorry to hear that.
These kinds of stories is what makes me not want to punish the girl. Real victims recant all the time for some of the reasons you listed above. I’d hate to think anger at this girl is going to cause us to further alienate somebody in need of help.
I still think the press should face some sort of sanctions for making all this public. Unconscionable.
@shay_d_lady,
I too was assaulted by someone I had known for 10years, someone who I trusted and thought was a friend…. that totally changed my movements with dudes forever.
@shay_d_lady, the thing is about this is what do you expect the defense to do in defense of their client? How do you prevent the defense attorney from going for the low blow?
@Me Fail English?
I couldn’t directly respond to your comment because the reply links don’t work on my phone. But anywho, I felt the need to “defend” the female in that situation because a) we didn’t know YET that woman was lying 2) because they were saying things “these b*tches do trains and they like it and 3) the energy was so anti-female in the
classroom that felt that I was being verbally attacked just because I didn’t think trains were all that cool. I agree the focus if this discourse should not be what s3xual act the boys engaged in nor should we lose sight of the fact women who are raped lose credibility when women like this make false accusations. What hurt me the most that day aside from learning that trains were ‘all the rage’ in college (and I have my own reasons for this) was the anger in the room directed towards women. It’s a fine line. A very fine line. One minute we’re talking about a woman vs. a man’s story and the next minute it’s “that b*tch is a whore/ b*tches lie about this sh*t all the time.” And mind you this was BEFORE the truth came out that she was lying.
With regards to trains, I’m reminded of the Champ’s post about being stopped by the police. If you think even for a second that your drunk, group s3x might result in being accused of anything wouldn’t you try to refrain from this type of activity given all these stories that are nearly identical. Wouldn’t you chill on that behavior when 9 times out of 10 you’re dealing with underage drinkers on university property that prohibits coed sleepovers of any kind. Shhhiiiiit, I almost got banned from Morehouse and given a violation just for visiting my bf after curfew. (Luckily, I gave the dumb a$$ guard a fake student id#) We all take a risk with any consensual behavior under
university policies.
@Miss Patterson,
That makes sense. I was replying to the part where you said you felt a need to “defend her regardless of whether or not she was down“. Which doesn’t make sense to me…
Anyhow, I agree. A lot of these discussions turn misogynistic fast. Where we disagree is on your second paragraph. Consensual sex, group or otherwise mostly goes on without police intervention so why would the boys find this to be risky behavior. Secondly, I didnt hear about the girl or the boys being drunk and I know for a fact that Hofstra does NOT have a rule prohibiting coed sleepovers (at least not in any of the dorms my friends lived in; the student accused was an upper classmen so I doubt his hall would have such a rule). Bringing up “well why were you running trains?” is akin to asking a victim “well who told you to wore a mini dress?”. Completely immaterial to the matter at hand.
Lying about rape and/or sexual abuse is despicable, how low can you go? my feelings about trains and said participants (very suspect behavior on the males) aside.
This is how i feel.
People are caught up in the PERCIEVED nastyness or depravity of the event.
Secondly, folks are saying that these young dudes werent capible of thinking this through to some kind of conclusion.
Thirdly The Burden of proof being on the victim.
First up, consensual chex between 3 through 3 trillion people is all the same because its all group sex. I know alot of people in the world that would love to have a threesome (all be it MMF FFM MMM or FFF). The scale for evaluating the event is effed up cause lets be real, who of us hasnt ever thought of having a hot 3way? lets just be honest…..
Second, These dudes didnt think of the potential consequences? Word? Look, its easy for us to say “they didnt think it through” but really whats to think through? You want some chex, and chick is offering. Thats true if its just her and you, or you and 30 other dudes. Its also true that you can be acused of rape if its just you and her or you two and 30 other dudes.
THE POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCES OF HAVING SEX WITH SOMEONE NEW FOR THE FIRST TIME (group or not) IS. ALWAYS .THE .SAME.
Lastly, im going to have to disagree with the burden of proof being on the victim. The only reason being that usually if the rape is reported within 48 hours (if you arent found beaten someplace or go to the hospital first) the FIRST thing that happens is they take your statement and the VERY NEXT thing they do is take you to the hospital to get you a “rape kit”. “Rape Kits” (for those that dont know) are esentially medical work ups to check for all the typical signs of rape and to collect any D.N.A. evidence that could still be there. These jokers are taken from the TOP DOWN, they look for bruises, cuts, take mouth, vaginal, and sometimes anal dna samples, pubic hair samples, and check for the tell tale skin samples from under the fingernails.
Proving you didnt do it EVEN IF theirs NO DNA evidence to prove that you did it is on the accused.
Im with Champ on this one though, we should seal these kinds of cases until theirs a verdict (the same way we can and do seal adoption records) because the fall out and colatteral damage is severe. (alot of people talked about the damages to the fellas involved, but no one really thought about the hell the immediate famly is going to have to go though) {ex, the harrasing phone calls from evey news outlet under the sun…How does it feel to have fathered a RAPIST?}
@ESQuared,
Here’s the problems with the rape kit:
1) All the bruises/cuts/scrapes/etc. can be chalked up to “rough sex”
2)A lot of the evidence is dependent on damage done to the walls of the vagina. Depending on how wet or flexible the walls were, their may not be any damage at all, which the defense can use as proof that a victim was “turned on” and consented. What sucks is that most jurors aren’t medical professionals and dont understand is that a lot of times women can experience the biological changes assoc’d w/ being sexual stimulation because they are excited (non-sexually), scared, or simply anticipating penetration consensual or otherwise.
3) DNA means nothing since DNA can be swapped in consensual encounters too.
********************
I agree on the rest. Given all of these comments, what do people think is inherently misogynistic or violent about trains? Can’t the same arguments be made for fellatio? Pornography?
I certainly have my suspicions that a woman being boned multiple times in a toilet by 5 guys she doesn’t know from Adam has serious issues with sex and her self-worth. But what does that have to do with her lying or the boys being victims? Talk show pseudo-psych does not make these boys Dr. Phil. There’s the undertone of sexual righteousness that’s taking far, far away from the main issue which is sexual violence and the people who lie about it.
@Me fail english?,
You know you my favorite poster right?
@Dorian G., quiet as kept, she mine too. lol.
today anyway since i dont even have to comment since she’s saying literally everything i want to say.
@Panama Jackson,
I’m joining the “I *heart* me fail english club” as well.
@Panama Jackson,
Awww. Group hug!
I’m joining the “I *heart* me fail english club” as well.
get a room
@Champ,
“get a room”
Go lie in a bed of tacks.
@Dorian G.,
Lol. Thanks for excusing the poor grammar and TERRIBLE syntax in that post.
@Me fail english?,
Gurl we family, leave all that proper english for the 2520s
@Me fail english?, i will conceed to the point that rape kits are in no way full proof but a rape kit is evidence and only evidence its still up to the prosecutor to make the case.
The point about most jurors being medical experts is also valid, no question about that either but yet and still on has to acknowledge that it is again up to the prosecutor to select jurors and educate them about rape kits and such in making their case.
*****************************************************
and co-sign, i dont that that the matter of how many people ran up in her has anything to do with the statutes and laws regaurding what establishes a rape case. she consented, and continued to consent guy after guy after guy. had she said no and tried to stop it or something the ok, clear case of rape. but if not? no dice.
this whole affair just reminds me of the Duke Lacrosse rape case……..
Her boyfriend got the biggest L of all tho. First you wifed a ho, secondly your girl got amtrak’d, third everybody know your business now.
@Dorian G.,
iHate you and iLove you for this comment all at the same time. lol.
The situation could’ve been avoided had these students made better choices. Maybe I’m wrong, but I think participating in a train is just plain stupid (among other things). I went to Hofstra for law school and EVERYBODY has been talking about this. I don’t think anyone’s identity should be exposed in these situations unless one of the parties is deemed a public threat. I understand why people feel the chick’s identity should be exposed, but the problem with that is it could make women who are actual victims of rape fearful of coming forward. Not to mention, if the law made an exception for her, it would set precedent and potentially lead to the exposure of true victims. When it comes to the law you have to look at the big picture.
I find it interesting that men are so up in arms about this incident. Life is full of double standards, and men never seem to care until they no longer benefit from them. What happened to these guys may not be fair, but when it comes to double standards, it is what it is.
@Voiceovereason, its like you’re saying a man shouldnt be up in arms because life is a double standard but women can be up in arms about the double standard they face. Am i extrapolating correctly?
Or are you saying if men are going to be up in arms about this then they should be up in arms about other double standards?
@Peysonic Temple,
Either way its an idiotic sentiment, and comment.
This isn’t some ideological debate, its the lives of 4 young men.
@Dorian G., #truestory
@Peysonic Temple,
Um… So her sentiment (“it is what it is”) was idiotic, but you saying “Of course defense attorneys go for the low blow” and “what do you expect them to do?” with regard to them drilling Shay’s cousin on her personal history is…what exactly?
By the way, I dont think your statement was “idiotic”. Maybe callous and detatched, but not “idiotic”.
@Peysonic Temple, im saying #truestory to the part about this not being ideological but about the lives of 5 young men.
Furthermore, i followed up my comment about Shay’s comment by asking how do we prevent defense lawyers from “going for the low blow”
@Me fail english?,
The statement was callous and detached I agree, but I can’t help but be callous and detached when I think about how so many men don’t care about how double standards impact women. And for the record, it’s not that I don’t care about what happens to men when they’re wrongly accused of rape. I’m close to a man who was accused of rape who was 100% innocent but had to pay for a woman’s lie and the thought of him being seen as a rapist makes me angry to this day.
@Voice,
Yeah, that was for Peyso. I thought he was asking leading, rhetorical questions (in the Shay post) when he was really asking open-ended questions. My apologies to Peyso.
@Dorian G.,
If your going to direct a statement at me, then address ME. Just b/c I’m looking at things from another point of view that you don’t agree with does not make my comment idiotic. Check dictionary.com before you start throwing around adjectives.
All parties involved (including the woman) made a trife decision and I feel nothing for any of them.
@Voiceovereason,
I don’t think the sentiment is idiotic because you think you are “looking at it from another POV”. I think the sentiment is idiotic because even under your own pretenses it doesn’t make sense. “[B]All parties involved[B] (including the woman) made a trife decision and I feel nothing for any of them.” <— This statement is essentially lumping the actions of the accused and accuser together which is idiotic (thats not even debatable). Since you're on here riding hard for/against (I'm not even sure) double standards, how would you feel if she had indeed been raped, and as the victim someone said that she was "trife" for wearing a shirt with no bra, or a miniskirt, or a 6 inch heels???
Don't bring your morality and sexual conservatism into a debate about the lives of 4 human beings. Blame the victim ni99as I swear.
@Voiceovereason,
Where’s my comment Panama?
@Peysonic Temple,
“Or are you saying if men are going to be up in arms about this then they should be up in arms about other double standards?”
Sorry if I was unclear. I think all double standards are wrong and if men get upset about double standards that impact them, they should be sympathetic to the ones that don’t. Wrong is wrong.
@Voiceovereason,
I agree. The men on this board are rightly upset about the damage done to people falsely accused (by and large male) but have very little to say (or seem completely unaware) of the burden of proof that rests with rape victims (primarily female).
@Me fail english?,
If the story was about a woman raped, who needed to provide proof, then I would comment appropriately.
The story is about 4 young men who were falsely accused by a young woman of rape, nearly costing them their lives. Thus I’m responding appropriately.
@Dorian G.,
What’s an appropriate response? If my comment wasn’t addressing you (which it’s not) then why are we discussing how you responded?
Regardless of how Panama starts a topic it says alot if the thread contains ppl up in arms about one unfair trend in rape allegations, but disavow knowledge of what the other side may experience (ie. burden of proof, ostracizing and interrogating victims). We can talk about trains, sexual deviance and gap commercials but not what happens when a woman is actually raped?
No.
@Me fail english?,
Who disavowed anything? If someone did I can’t clap to that obviously. However the central issue that got me upset was VoiceofReason equating ni99as being falsely accused of rape to “the double standards women face everyday (PP)”
@Dorian G.,
Ok I hear you. Upthread one of the posts suggested that legally, the deck is stacked against men. I took that as a failure to acknowledge just how hard real victims have it.
@Voiceovereason, I think this is a great point.
@Voiceovereason,
Unfortunately, the victim’s name and photo is already ALL OVER the press (thanks to the usual newsdmedia suspects) and has been ever since she recanted. Being that the court of public opinion can be way harsher than the actual legal system (esp. if the girl is emotionally disturbed) I kinda cringed seeing her face splattered no papers for all to judge. The part of me that was once an 18-year-old girl that did selfish, inconsiderate things just feels like that second wrong did NOT make it right.
Folks who abuse such a serious allegation such as rape pisses me off for two reasons. For one, it only heightens the “don’t believe the rape victim by default” sh*t that runs rampant among society and lessens the severity of the crime because one could just toss it around like a dayun hacky sack. And two, it can severely eff up people’s (primarily the accused, but also those close to them) lives. That mess is nada to play with.
“I feel like if you falsely accuse somebody of rape, you should be prosecuted just as harshly.”
I think it’s in the same vein as making a false 911 call. Or it should be. Making a false 911 call is deemed illegal and in some states, you could actually get jail time. And I think the punishment should be measured upon the level of crime you (knowingly) falsely accuse someone of.
Sure, everyone thinks the female should not remain anonymous, and I get that because ‘she lied.’
My English lit teacher once told me that everything in life comes own to sex and/or money.
The girl cried rape because women are not sexually liberated. The fact that the female let 4/5 girl have sex wit her is not anyones problem.
While for men its often an asset to be seen as a sexual predator… like the way men can have 9 wives etc in some cultures, while each woman is only permitted one husband…The female might have felt that the whole train thing made her look like a hoe, but the guys clearly didn’t, since they were all doing it together.
But I agree with Panama when you said – ‘Except they didn’t commit a crime.’ But the guys are only victims indirectly… and this makes me wonder how many people are locked up and innocent.
Maybe she ‘cried rape’ because she felt violated even after consenting?
I was tempted to do a similar thing at one point…
I meant the female let 4/5 guys, not girls.
@Ramona,
“I was tempted to do a similar thing at one point…”
You really could have left this out
@Dorian G.,
noooooo, i don’t mean that I got raped. I mean that… after having sex with a guy.. and you know… he moved on to other girls, that kinda thing is a violation.. and so I wanted to say he raped me.. but obviously I consented.. so that’s why I said ‘tempted to do a similar thing’. But yeah.. I should have left it out, but I don’t know how to delete it…
@Ramona,
I know what you meant, and now that you have expounded, I should reply to this comment as well.
You really could have left this out.
@Dorian G.,
lets get back to the maaain issue….?
@Dorian G., DITTO.
@Dorian G.,
“I know what you meant, and now that you have expounded, I should reply to this comment as well.
You really could have left this out.”
ramona’s statement (and the hofstra rape case) are both connected to the line of thinking that makes women joke about not “counting” certain guys they’ve been with.
me thinks that sh*t like this is another sign that women aren’t built (physically or emotionally) to have sex like men
@The Champ,
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Ramona’s response to her perceived violation is in no way average, normal or nearly as common as women not counting all their partners. I understand there’s a hypersensitivity to feeling violated (in connection with sex) among women that does not occur in most if any men. But I’d be surprised to learn that even 25% of women have ever contemplated falsely accusing a dude of a felony just cause he was an a*hole. And trust me, I’ve done some vindictive stuff in my younger, selfish years.
@Ramona,
lol. Yeah, I think we all knew what you meant. But given the ill feelings here toward the girl you probably shouldnt have jumped in like “I was bout to do dat same isht!”
Too soon!
@Me fail english?,
ok, ok.
@Ramona,
“I was tempted to do a similar thing at one point…”
?
@miss t-lee,
I just meant that I understand her position a bit.
@Ramona,
I just read your explanation, but I can’t say that I agree with your stance.
@Ramona,
o_O
@Ramona,
“Maybe she ‘cried rape’ because she felt violated even after consenting?”
This is interesting. With so much nuance wrapped up in sexual rel’ships, respect, etc. its hard to know how she felt. Maybe she only wanted a train but didn’t want to be taped. Maybe she only consented to 2 and then a third jumped on her. Maybe she changed her mind halfway through. Being that she accused all 5 guys of forceful assault with bondage and all (clearly a lie) I just didnt think she deserved to be given the benefit of any doubt. That might be my knee jerk anger though.
@Me fail english?,
“Maybe she only wanted a train but didn’t want to be taped.” – This would constitute a rape under the statute.
“Maybe she only consented to 2 and then a third jumped on her.” – This would constitute a rape under the statute.
“Maybe she changed her mind halfway through.” – This would constitute a rape under the statute.
Being that she accused all 5 guys of forceful assault with bondage and all (clearly a lie) I just didnt think she deserved to be given the benefit of any doubt. – I agree with this. She literally made some sh!t up.
@Peysonic Temple,
I wonder if she would have said that she changed her mind halfway through, and if that was the truth, how many people would have believed her? Not saying that this is what happened, but it’s interesting. Also, I have an issue with him taking the cell phone, and then a train commencing. Was this something they had talked about previously, or did he call all his boys once he got her in the bathroom. Was she free to leave, or was she forced to remain in the bathroom with them? Did he set her up when he took the cell, or was all of that a part of the game of the train? It is unfortunate that she recanted, but was it all a lie or just partially a lie? This whole thing makes me upset, and it just makes it even harder on rape victims to report these crimes to the police. SMH….
@N.I.A. is 2 sexxy for her shirt….,
The thing is that since she had already came forward and an investigation was begun she could have told the police and because all of the aforementioned still constitute rape none of the charges would have been dropped
@N.I.A. is 2 sexxy for her shirt….,
I have an issue with him taking the cell phone, and then a train commencing. Was this something they had talked about previously, or did he call all his boys once he got her in the bathroom. Was she free to leave, or was she forced to remain in the bathroom with them? Did he set her up when he took the cell, or was all of that a part of the game of the train?
I love this analysis.
@Peyso
I know. I was speaking more about the court of public opinion. And honestly, I think the police and the prosecution would give her a o_O for changing her story. The media would have a field day with it, and it would probably never get to trial b/c she would probably recant the entire thing for fear of being seen as a liar. This is all conjecture, of course….
@N.I.A. is 2 sexxy for her shirt….,
I agree. Also, we can’t really separate the court system from the court of public opinion cuz unless there’s some serious sequestering going on (which there prob wouldn’t have been in this case given how fast it went public) the jury prob wouldn’t buy it either.
@Peysonic Temple,
“Maybe she only wanted a train but didn’t want to be taped.” – This would constitute a rape under the statute.
Taping someone having consensual sex without them agreeing to be taped is charged as “rape”?! You sure about that?
@Me fail english?,
Yep. There is regular rape. The rape that you think of when we say the word rape. Forceful and inhumane.
Then there is rape that is consider rape under certain statutes. Most people only think of sex w/ a minor (and thus its known as statutory rape). However, there are a bunch of other sexual situations covered under that statute. Like: Unwillful recording, sex w/ a mentally disabled person, sex with someone you supervise in a work environment,
@Ramona,
“My English lit teacher once told me that everything in life comes [down] to sex and/or money.”
Your English Lit class was clearly more interesting than mine!
As a victim of a violent sexual assault in college I cold not pass on speaking on this topic. I think you are mistaken about the ease of getting charges pressed againt rapists. In my situation and many other women I had to basically fight to even get the police to take me seriously… and in the end, even with witnesses and a positive rape kit there were no charges filed.
Don’t get me wrong, it is terrible for the falsely accused, but what about women like me whose rapists get away with it, which I am sure far outweighs the former. It’s just effed up all around.
@Naturally Alise, i’m sorry about what happened to you. But do you think that this situation trivalizes the pain and suffering that you actually went through?
@Peysonic Temple,
This situation does anger me, it makes things so much harder for people who face similar situations.
@Naturally Alise,
I think you would agree that women liked her helped to create (or at the very least gave a very limited amount of validity) to the situation that made it difficult and ultimately impossible to prosecute and convict the person that assaulted you. Do think that she deserves no punishment?
@Peysonic Temple,
Nah, can’t really ride with this concept.
It’s like white cats who say that the reason why white people say “nigger” is because black folks say it all the time. Which is a damn lie.
The blame the victim attitude is not because of liars. If folks were being logical, they would admit that the vast majority of women who claim to have been raped, actually were raped. Therefore, the reaction is not based on a rational reaction to liars, but some other irrational urge.
Sometimes it’s because cats don’t like or trust women. Sometimes it’s because cats believe that the whole you can say no at anytime movement is wack. Sometimes it’s out of fear of liars, and sometimes it’s because we have a vested interest in the accused.
Liars didn’t make people adopt the blame the victim attitude. Men adopted it because it’s a great defense even if you are guilty as hell. That’s why people do it in every situation.
@Peysonic Temple,
I think u missed the part in parentheses that addresses the point that you make.
@Big Man,
Well said. I dont even buy the argument that liars help “reinforce” the notion that a victim may be lying so much as they give irrational arse people one more piece of ammunition to shirk accountability here.
If another woman at Hofstra made the same claim about another 5 men tomorrow and this case makes you think anything other than “I have no idea what’s going on? Let’s wait for an investigation” then you were probably biased some way to begin with.
@Peysonic Temple,
Nah, I felt it didn’t.
The central argument was that people lying makes it easier to blame the victim and thus harder for real victims. I wanted to deal with that.
People blame the victim because it reduces their guilt.
“She made me slap her.”
“He made me stab him.”
Blaming the victim is a natural reaction that has nothing to do with the previous actions of the victim, and everything to do with people trying to reduce their own blame.
Most cats I know, myself included, typically distrust rape accusations from the jump. We are just skeptical. Now I can understand your argument that this is because too many chicks have lied, but in reality very few chicks have lied. So that means it comes from something else.
I’m not sure exactly what it’s tied to, maybe the feeling that there is no real defense against someone saying you raped them, but I think the idea that the lies of a small percentage of chicks are what drives the current attitudes towards rape victims is erroneous.
I think we’d like believe that because it absolves us of blame, but it just ain’t the case.
@Peysonic Temple,
I think ur totally off of what I’m saying because it has nothing to do with the actual perpetrator. It has to do with the way society views victims of rape and potential victims of rape. I think it would be naive to think that all of this came out of no where for every single person. To say that a women lying on a dude has no effect on any men viewing this is foolish IMHO. I think this case and the uproar around disproves the notion of general distrust of women that you speak. We (I included) prosecuted these boys in our minds before anything have it. Perhaps society is skeptical b/c we know that we’re going to bury this man under the cell when he eventually gets convicted.
Why do you think its erroneous? Based or what?
@Peysonic Temple,
Logically, it makes no sense to believe that because some chicks lie on dudes, your first reaction to a rape accusation should be to suspect the victim and blame her for what happened.
We know that the number of chicks who lie is low. We know that many chicks get raped by shady dudes all the time, particularly chicks who have “loose” backgrounds.
So, if we know all these things and still decided to blame the victim, can we really say that it’s because so many chicks lie?
In my opinion, that’s a smokescreen. It’s like the cops saying they racially profile because black people commit crimes. On the surface it makes sense, until you look at the fact that most black people DO NOT commit crimes, and far MORE white people break the law regularly.
We’re justifying questionable behavior by jumping on a flimsy explanation.
There are a host of reasons why cops racially profile and the black crime rate is not the main one.
There are a whole host of reasons why dude’s distrust rape accusations, and the lying of chicks is not the main one. It can’t be logically. I made my original response to you because I felt that your main point was that these lying chicks are just causing all these problems, and I think that’s not the case.
I don’t know what the true, deeper reason is for the initial reaction, but I know a deeper reason exists. At least in my opinion. But, if we disagree, that’s cool too.
This is tough post to comment on. I agree with most of the comments above.
No, I don’t feel sorry for the 4 guys. You ran a train on a chick, and you run the risk of being accused of rape, assuming the chick lied.
I think the scary statistic that 1 in 4 women is raped by an acquaintance or that every 30 seconds a woman is a victim of domestic violence speaks volumes of the dangers facing women in our interactions with men. Any way you slice it, the woman will look like a “ho” for “allowing” 4 guys to have sex with her, assuming that’s what she did. There is delicate line between consensual sex and rape (i.e. think Higher Learning where they were in the middle of act, and the guy refused to stop — That’s still rape).
I find it problematic that men seem to think that “the woman always wants it.” Case in point, when we walk down the street, a woman should never feel intimidated or subjected to sexual harassment or like she is forced to talk to a man so he won’t attack her. Yet, we do, b/c if we don’t we get called “bitches” or followed by guys we don’t know, or worse attacked.
It doesn’t help that society does not take violence against women seriously, because men still receive lighter jail sentences for killing women as opposed to a woman killing a man.
@Cherry_Darling,
because men still receive lighter jail sentences for killing women as opposed to a woman killing a man
i didnt know this. welcome and sh*t, btw
@The Champ,
Thanks for the welcome, love your posts.
Been a lurker for sometime.
@Cherry_Darling,
“It doesn’t help that society does not take violence against women seriously, because men still receive lighter jail sentences for killing women as opposed to a woman killing a man.”
Wow, for serious?
This brings up an interesting level in terms of how society treats domestic abuse for a man against a woman versus a woman against a man. You’d think since society is harsher on male violence against women, the laws would reflect such for murder.
@Cheekie,
Yeah, I had a professor who was raped, and she did a lot of studies on this.
She found that a man is likely to get sentenced less time for murdering a woman, while a woman is likely to get 25 yrs or more.
Okkk sooo much to comment on…
1. Co sign on a lot of whats been said thus far. I don’t think Alcohol was a factor. Also I think it was completely ok’d by the girl. not just part of it. She didn’t even bulk on her story till they asked her if there was a video would she still hold to her story. Apparently viewing the video it is easy to see it was completely ok’d by her. But this is coming from someone who didnt (and has no desire to) see it.
2. I am not even addressing the Train issue because I don’t think it has any relevance as far as the actual issue presented for the topic. What people do in they bedroom is not my business.
3. As a Mental Health professional there is a difference between being emotionally disturbed and mentally disturbed. She is a liar.. point blank. She can’t claim temporary insanity. She isn’t mentally ill. She is CLEARLY disturbed emotionally but that doesn’t mean its ok for her to not be prosecuted. Hell they put someone in jail the other day for kidnapping, raping and subsequently killing a woman even though the prosecution had (in my opinion) clear case of mental instability brought on by traumatice brain trama when he was a boy.
4. With that being said. She needs to be prosecuted. I think the last I saw on the news they weren’t seeking to reprimand her. I agree that there should at least be SOME attempt to do everything anonymously until a verdict is reached. But since there isn’t yet she needs to pay some kind of price. I don’t know if its jail time per se. But i’m not completely against it. Not years maybe some months.. probation.. DEFINITELY some community service preferably in a facility that houses females who have been sexually assualted so she knows what a REAL victim looks like and the point is rammed home that sexual assault is NOT a thing to be played with…
And lastly kudos on this post…
@Somethin’ Special,
Not years maybe some months.. probation.. DEFINITELY some community service preferably in a facility that houses females who have been sexually assualted so she knows what a REAL victim looks like and the point is rammed home that sexual assault is NOT a thing to be played with…
i can agree with this. welcome and sh8t, btw
@Somethin’ Special,
“Not years maybe some months.. probation.. DEFINITELY some community service preferably in a facility that houses females who have been sexually assualted so she knows what a REAL victim looks like and the point is rammed home that sexual assault is NOT a thing to be played with…”
I’m especially down with the community service in the facility housing the sexually abused/assaulted. I think in general, folks need to seriously consider the old adage, “walk a mile in one’s shoes”.
@Cheekie,
I’d be down for this. Or at least sentence her to some mandatory counseling. Anger management style.
Have y’all ever done a post about the worst accusations a woman can make towards a man, and vice versa? You know, like “You’re gay” or “You nana stinks.” That kind of thing.
that would be an interesting topic.
Trains / group sex / orgies can be fun!
Some women ENJOY getting filled out like an application.
I don’t know any of them personally, but there are urban legends…
Well I know firsthand of this and this blog really hit home. 6 years ago (a few weeks after the Kobe stuff hit the fan) this happened to me and my friends. This was the worst/best thing that has ever happened to me. I had a party at my house and during the time that the “train” took place I was on the couch sleep. And I never had sex with the girl in question. Since it was my house, my party and the girl was my friend she said I raped her. The police believed everything this girl said or lied about when it was obvious that her story never added up. (side note – small town girl’s family was friends with lead detective)
My name was plastered all over the news (locally and state wide), the front page of the newspaper and gossip throughout everyone’s mouth. I lost my GOOD paying job that I had just started. I Spent 28 days in jail and went through a deep stage of depression. I had to pack my bags and move back home with my parents because I had to leave town to save my face and I had no money to pay rent or bills because I had no job and could not get a job in this town of 20,000.
Long story short I spent (parents spent) over $20,000 in attorney’s fees for this lie that a female told on me. Even six years later when I google my name it is still the top article that pops up when my name is goggled. There are no articles written that say that this case was dismissed because it was proven that this girl was lying or to the fact that she never showed up to court. None of those stories can be found on the web.
Over the years it has been hard to date because of goggle and trying to explain that this is not true. It was hard to get a job at first because no one wanted to hire me. But I have moved on; this was a wakeup call for me and my life only changed for the better after this situation happened. It is still hard for me to talk about what happened 6 years ago but I am grateful to God for the blessing that he has brought me during this time. I did learn throughout this story that though they say “Innocent until proven guilty” I was GUILTY until proven innocent”
@HurriKane,
wow.
all i can say is, i’m in awe of the fact that you still seem to have a pretty positive outlook on things. that’s truly inspiring.
thanks for sharing, and welcome.
@HurriKane,
Thanks for sharing your story. Even though it was a series of unfortunate events, I am glad to know you came through it and remain positive.
Any ya’ll hear about his dude down in Texas who shot the guy who was breaking his wife’s back because they got caught and she claimed rape?
http://tinyurl.com/4z59ue
She caught a 20-year manslaughter bid.
Just stumbled into the VSB Blog, scanned a few posts and… I LOVE IT! Saved it as a favorite and looking forward to more!
Until Next Time,
~C~