If you frequent this site you know I went to Morehouse and love my alma mater dearly.
However, this is some bullsh*t.
(By the way, I really didn’t mean to do two HBCU posts in a row. I know how some of you folks feel about the HBCUs around here.)
Apparently, the higher ups and our new President, Dr. Howard Franklin, feel the need to ensure that the image of the Morehouse Man and the reality of the Morehouse Man are one and the same. To wit:
“Appropriate Attire Policy”. Based on Dr. Franklin’s conceptualization on the Renaissance Man, specifically his expectation of the “well-dressed” man of Morehouse, the policy will set a campus-wide standard for student’s attire.
The policy outlines 11 expectations pertaining to what students should not wear while on campus. Instead of requiring certain articles of clothing, as a typical dress code would, the policy details those articles of clothing deemed unacceptable for students. Some of the expectations discussed in the policy include to prohibit wearing “sagging” pants, women’s clothing, and headwear.
Now slap me silly and call me Susan J. Elmo, but I’m really curious about this need to outlaw women’s clothing. Granted its been years since I was at the ‘House but I do not remember anybody actually walking around looking like Lady Gaga or anything. But hey, you never know with these kids nowadays.
Anyway, I have a beef with this new policy on a principle level. For one, college is a time for self-expression and self-discovery. Attempting to limit the scope of one’s dress seems kind of counterproductive to what college is all about. For b, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig. We’ll get back to that one in a minute though.
Forget about the fact that it’s Morehouse for a second. The fact that any school college or university would take it upon itself to limit the clothing choices of its student body is kind of troubling to me. To me, it assumes that they have no concept of what is appropriate or that a bunch of 18 to 22 year olds who are learning about life should be forced to view themselves through only one lens. While I can understand the disdain for sagging pants, I think that its a fad and trend of the culture right now. Fads end and when folks get older and start looking for jobs, they come to their senses and pull their pants up. It happens to most of us reading Black men. We all eventually learn to know better.
But I also have an issue with this whole “image” thing that we in the Black community are so obsessed with. The reason you incorporate a dress code is so that these men can uphold one particular image of what a Morehouse Man should be. The great thing about Morehouse and one reason it’s so successful and well-known is because of the variety of individuals who’ve come out of Morehouse. And all that starts with things as insignificant as establishing your own identity through dress early on in life. Catering to this “image” is putting the school above the individual when its the accomplishments of the individuals that have placed Morehouse at the pinnacle of the Black community in the first place.
Plus, these are grown ass men that you’re telling how to dress. On just a surface level, what does that say about the quality of the individuals you’re bringing in that you feel a need to explicitly tell them what they cannot wear on campus? Not really giving them much credit, are they?
But it all comes back to image. To the old vanguard, there is this pristine image of a Morehouse Man and the new administration wants to make sure that the current crop looks the part at all times, which is great, but once again, you can put a thug in a suit, but then all you have is a thug in a suit. Morehouse is a school, much like other HBCUs that builds character and we all grow by being at those schools. Attempting to limit something like clothing and individual style (face it, that’s what dress codes do, they limit styles for certain people) does nothing but stifle growth.
Anyway, I’ve said my peace and I’m a grown ass man who doesn’t go there anymore. But my free-dressing compadres of the VSB, what are your thoughts on this, on a larger scale? Does it seem necessary to have to provide a dress code to grown men? Is it reasonable? Or is this just more Black pandering to an “image” as opposed to the reality?
Say you, say me.
What say you?
-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka TANGLE JIG P aka GIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRL, HE A 3
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{ 314 comments… read them below or add one }
I don’t see what the big deal is. It’s a private college. Therefore, they can make rules as they see fit. If the dudes don’t like it, they can go elsewhere. But I bet Morehouse won’t suffer a lower enrollment. Offices have dress codes because, contrary to popular belief, a lot of people DO NOT know how to dress in a professional setting.
My sources–people currently enrolled in Morehouse and Spelman–tell me that the one rule about clothes for women is in response to a trend that I first saw (close up) on Real Housewives of Atl. (Oh and don’t act like you’ve never watched.) I can’t think of the dude’s name but he’s known for showing shoulder, stuffing his stubby legs into girl’s skinny jeans and pumps. And you know how conservative we Black folks are.
@Ms. Smart,
Wow.
I’ve never seen an episode of Real Housewives of Anything. My basic
bootlegcable doesn’t go to that channel. This sounds like something I’m probably glad to have missed, though.@Maximillian, I can’t find a picture of him and his name escapes me right now. But I hear that it’s becoming quite a trend down there.
@Ms. Smart, Yes! his name is Derek J and unfortunately the women’s clothing is necessary lol. During my time at CAU I saw a few dudes at both institutions sashaying around campus with designer handbags, pumps, weaves (yes like B.SCOTT if anyone knows who that is) and things of that nature. It gets a lil ridiculous on the promenade when dudes can walk better in their stilettos than us girls!!
@GEELA,
Oh wow.
I’ve seen that Derek J dude ’round the blogsphere, I didn’t realize this was a rampant trend down in the ATL.
Ouch.
It’s not. I don’t recall ever seeing dudes walking around here in heels, but then again I don’t run in circles where that would be tolerated.
@AkShone, I don’t think the kids I know who are down there ‘run’ in those circles either. However, they have observed the very behaviors that probably prompted the administration to take drastic measures.
@AkShone,
Thank you for clearing that up.
@AkShone, yeah, i’m with you. i know some pretty gay people in Atlanta (and DC for that matter and its still rarely i see dudes walking around in women’s clothing…well, blatant women’s clothing like fishnets, heels, and them potato sack dresses), and they dress pretty much like rappers do nowadays – tight clothes that are really colorful.
@Ms. Smart, ****handclaps**** I know exactly who you are talking about.
@Ms. Smart, It’s a private college. Therefore, they can make rules as they see fit.
while i see what you mean, i think its a bit shortsighted. folks pay their good money for all of those individuals to have jobs there. and to me its a two way street, the school is great b/c of the students, and the students are great b/c of the school. to be like, them ninjas can just go elsewhere is to deprive itself of some of the very reasons that morehouse is even worth mentioning. just go make Hampton great…they even got white girls as queens.
and i’ve only seen one episode of RHOA. and for the longest time, i had been trying to figure out just why in the f*ck folks kept saying, “who gon’ check me boo?” i was so confused until my girl enlightened me that it came from that show.
so yeah. i don’t really watch. when folks said that AJ died, i thought they were talking about Predator AJ from 106 & Park.
@Ms. Smart,
And you know how conservative we Black folks are.
Oh yeah, as conservative as they come (even politically) and will never admit it.
Women’s clothing? I would have had major issues if this was my school and they enforced a dress code. Everyone has their own style and should be allowed to express it. Every Morehouse student I’ve ever met is well-dressed so I really wonder if it’s needed. Wonder what happens if it isn’t followed?
@Leila, i really wonder who the hell is running around school in a dress? i aint saying it aint possible. but when i was there, while folks got pretty liberal with their clothing, nobody was ever running around in drag.
@Panama Jackson,
Yeah, they’re not tryna save the “decorum” by stopping people from actually dressing like women with beards. They’re trying to dictate taste which is an obscene waste of time and effort.
No purses? You know how many straight, prof’l, non-black men in NY walk around with “murses”? Prof’l attire deez.
@Me fail english?,
‘No purses? You know how many straight, prof’l, non-black men in NY walk around with “murses”? Prof’l attire deez.’
lol this reminds my of Eben Gregory aka “The Jewelry Man”. He always making fun of celebrities for carrying man bags. he has a whole series of disses based on it. Man guys need to carry man bags this days so much technical crap to carry around, smart phones, mini laptops, digital cams, and foundation. what people expect them to do?
@Me fail english
“They’re trying to dictate taste which is an obscene waste of time and effort.”
this sums up my sentiments perfectly, before I could even fully articulate them. i don’t know the stats, but how many black men graduate from high school and matriculate to college? in Atlanta? New Orleans? DC? Any fuggin where for that matter. and this is what the new leadership chooses to focus on?
I understand “upholding an ideal,” but it’s misguided in my opinion. I would equate it to perpetuating standing traditions in a historic black church. while folx are busy putting on a production and “having church,” the very model of the Church that Christ gave THROUGH his ministry TOWARDS THE UNCHURCHED is being ignored so people can feel good about hearing the choir ‘sang’ and gettin a ‘good word,’ that’s forgotten as soon as the mimosas start flowin at brunch.
the depth and evolution of learning that should characterize the institution of education is being replaced by the surface level concern of image.
fugg what they wearin. what they learnin????? and how are they contribute to society once they leave??
@Panama Jackson, Its not rly dress per se, its high heels, low cut shirts as if they have cleavage, purses and hair scarves
But P., wait!
“you can put a thug in a suit, but then all you have is…”
A) a thug in a suit.
B) a defendant.
C) a CEO.
D) all of the above.
I think we could use more CEOs. Maybe. Okay, maybe that’s bad logic. But a dress code? Can we save Morris Brown first? Okay, that may be illogical too.
There are so many questions though. Is there an ‘acceptable sag line,’ or does everyone have to do an Urkel? No headwear? some Muslims, Sunnis, Rastas and Braves fans may be offended. This sounds like a can of worms to me.
@Maximillian, Is the opposite of sagging an Urkel?????
No, it’s not..What’s wrong with wearing your pants on the natural waistline?
@Nicki Sunshine,
What’s wrong with getting an education regardless of how you wear your pants?
@Monk,
…word.
@Monk, It’s not the education they are emphasizing here, they want people to LOOK professional.
@Nicki Sunshine, Not only that, but when I was *cough* younger *cough*, I observed that when I went to parties where people had to dress up, they were less likely to ‘cut a fool’. Not only that, but dressing like an upstanding gentleman is HAWT. But I wonder some of the backlash is a result of the people not wanting these boys, many of which have been accused of ‘acting white’ because they were smart, to also ‘dress white’. They don’t get to express themselves through their clothing. Translation: They don’t get to keep it real. Translation: They don’t get to dress Black…and we all know Black means ghetto/hood.
@Ms. Smart,
You’re reaching here. I went to school with plenty of white boys who sagged their pants, wore flip flops, put their feet up in class and had pornographic images on their t-shirts. I would oppose a dress code for them, the same as I would at Morehouse.
@Me fail english?, And those white boys are sagging why? Where’d they learn it from? Hip-hop=Black.
@Ms. Smart,
Not really. Some of those dudes just looked like sloppy grunge or surfer boy types. Some of em just didnt have belts. And what of the flip flops. And why would I defend a white man’s desire to “dress black” as you put it? Further, you can replace sagging jeans with purple hair, mohawks, rundown sneakers or whatever else. My point was I oppose college campus dress codes in gen’l. Not because I think Nashawn is gonna come back Braxton P. Hartnebrig.
You think college aged white men walk around campus looking like they’re applying for jobs? What does any of this have to do with the price of tea in China?
@Nicki Sunshine,
They want people to LOOK professional but at the cost of discriminating against them because of how they dress. Everybody doesn’t desire to go into a profession where they have to dress up everyday. Besides, we’re just talking about going to class, eating in the cafe, etc., NOT actually working a job. Big difference. Just because one chooses to dress a certain way does not imply that they don’t know how to dress appropriately for certain circumstances. Campus, a place where a lot of students live, shouldn’t be held to the same standard as say a formal ceremony.
@Ms. Smart: That is exactly what they told us at my school and at my former job!
@Monk:
You don’t have to wear dress pants in order to not dress up.
You can still wear jeans, just dont’ sag them.
@Monk,
You can’t tell me that dressing the part of success does not enhance your overall outlook on the day and your environment. It is a proven study. The way you dress determines your days outlook and productivity. When did it become unfashionable to pull your effen pants up?
@Ms. Johnson,
Well I’ll tell you that all day in addition to calling BS on the study.
I used to work for THREE companies where we wore jeans everyday. Flip flops, Uggs if you’d like. They were some of the most dynamic, creative and successful brands in their fields. If you need to wear a suit to get ideas or be motivated to do your job, so be it. No reason to instate rules to the rest of us.
@Ms. Johnson, i think what folks are missing is that the dress code doesn’t tell folks what to wear, it’s telling people what NOT to wear. its not saying wear a suit, its saying do not wear this other stuff. i’d have less of an issue if they came up with some uniform standard, i dont care if you paint all day or are in business, this is what you rock then basically singling out certain behaviors from certain students they didnt like and decide to remove them.
@Panama Jackson,
Good point. They dont want folks to look prof’l. If that was the case they would’ve banned any graphic tees, sweats, etc. They just dont want you to wear tunics and sunglasses to graduation. Huh?
@Ms. Johnson,
I know people that dress in suits and “professional” attire and play around on facebook and verysmartbrothas.com ALL day. That doesn’t exactly speaks of productivity if you ask me.
No offense to this insightful website of course
@Nicki Sunshine,
I can’t wear my pants on my natural waist line because my aunt has a very large arse, and it was hereditarily passed unto myself, and not my sister. Go fig. Therefore I run into the problem of having a large posterior and thighs and a smaller waist. Either I buy small and look like Kanye, or I buy large and run the risk of extra folds between belt loops when I have to buckle my belt tight…
So My pants never come above the suprailliac crest. Sue me. I HAVE a good fookin job. Tailored suits are what I wear to bidniss meetings, and I get my khakis cut right as well. But when I’m just chillin, my jeans are what they are…
But I have never sagged my pants down to my fooking knees. I’ve never seen why you’d want to do that and have to walk like a duck. It’s very disturbing…
@Dante_Alexander, But you don’t chill in class.
@Nicki Sunshine,
I do. I did. whatever.
I HATE dressing up, and it makes me very uncomfortable. I do it at my job because I have to, not because it makes me do my job any better, despite what pundits may think.
I’ll be DAMNED if I’mma be uncomfortable in class. Not. Gonna. Happen.
Call it what you want, but the fact that I could rock sweats and a hoodie to class at 8 AM was dope.
@Nicki Sunshine,
Actually, we had a very relaxed style of learning at my school. Especially in the smaller classes. Real roundtable discussions with people eating, drinking, walking around the room and all. As long as we didnt stray far from the topic of discussion my profs encouraged it.
@Nicki Sunshine, b/c if ninjas actually did that, with how strange these jeans are cut nowadays, nobody’d be having babies.
@Panama Jackson, LMAO.
@Maximillian,
“This sounds like a can of worms to me.”
Exactly. I think this is the part that’s going over heads like airplanes.
Seems like the same rationale that some firms give for not allowing black women to wear “ethnic” hair (naturals, locks, twists etc.) no matter how neat. Yeah, they can go work elsewhere, but why are you surprised that at some point somebody’s gonna stand up and say “eff this”?
This sounds like Morehouse is fighting back against certain “types” of young Black men. Perhaps the ones who wear sagging pants…..and womens clothing. If you know what I mean.
@Liz, That’s what it looks like.
@Liz, I was told on another site by either a current student or alum that my hbcu is not like there’s and they have a “brand” to uphold. I thought well damn, LOL. if thats what it is, do what you do.
@Reecie, that’s that good ole Morehouse mystique.
by the way, my freshman year i had to sign an actual paper saying that my actions, de-mystified the morehouse mystique. i still get a kick out of that to this day.
(had chicks in the room past curfew – my RA ACTUALLY called campus police on me and my roommate instead of just telling us to put them out and handling it in house…the ACTUAL CAMPUS POLICE..over women. the cops were like, “i cant believe he called us for this sh*t. “)
@Liz,
indeed, sounds like tongue-in-cheek homophobia.
Sometimes it’s necessary to have a dress code. I feel there is a time and place for everything. A lot of people don’t understand that so there has to be certain standards put in place. Besides white people are looking at us.
@Jeff, Besides white people are looking at us.
you’re absolutely right. they’re looking at us try to make them happy 24/7.
welcome and sh*t, btw.
@Jeff,
Was that white people are looking at us line serious?…Please tell me that was sarcasm?
@Jeff, Besides white people are looking at us
You watched that Wanda Sykes comedy thing on HBO didn’t you….LMAO
Did you go to Morehosue or Morehouse? And did either College teach spelling?
Inquiring minds wanna know. Hee, hee.
@Miss Patterson,
LOL! Before (like 2 weeks) I turn in my thesis proposal, I’m sending it to you!
@Miss Patterson, funny.
whether i went to morehouse or morehosue, you’ll still end up working for me one day so it doesn’t really matter.
shots.fired.
@Panama Jackson, naw i’ll pass. cuz you’ll probably make the check out to Miss Peterson, anyway.
@Miss Patterson, arsonist in training,
LMAO!
@Miss Patterson, arsonist in training,
LMFAO. It’s like Panama’s shots curved around Miss Patterson Angelina Jolie- style.
*daps Miss Patterson*
@Panama Jackson,
Wait…no “spell deez”?
@Cheekie, well i contemplated that, but i felt like spitting some of that good ole morehouse stereotypical assholishness.
I was just about to ask if this was “HBCUs Gone Wild” week.
Sounds like the president of Morehouse has been chatting with the president of my Alma Mater Hampton. Lol We have had a dress code forever. Actually the funny thing is that this year they changed the rules and became less strict. I mean I feel where you are coming from, but at the same time, we are dealing with a new breed. Its sad, but I am sure that they powers that be thought long and hard and realized that this new breed of Morehouse men need some
forcedcontrolguidance. I love well dressed men… yum!It wont destroy the school… You guys will be fine
hmmm, I feel like we need a little more time to edit our comments…
::walks away with head down and kicks rocks::
@Buxxy, you know, i almost entitled yesterday’s post about Hampton “HBCU’s Gone Wild”
and i know it won’t destroy the school. but i’m guessing every few years you can say you’re dealing with a new breed. do you constantly modify to ensure that the attire you dont want to see is removed?
part of my problem is this: there are clearly certain folks that they’re not targetting, be they gay, overly urban, whatever…they’re fine with that so there’s really no issue with how they’re dressing, but to exclude certain behaviors so that folks look like the image you want them have bothers me. morehouse will be there tomorrow, and i dont go there now so it really doesn’t matter. but in principle, i take issue with folks dictating on a whim what isnt acceptable…to whom?
@Panama Jackson,
Don’t worry, I will cover these issues in my dissertation lol. This week has given me at least 3 chapters. lol I am about to raise all types of hell in the HBCU circuit.
I see how this could really upset current students and stifle their creative attire, but nothing is sexier than a well-dressed, clean cut, slightly prep, Black man. Look how our youth dressed before the early 70′s. Check out how sharp the men were when they were doing sit-ins at the lunch counter and marching for civil rights- they were fresh. I assure you this will only add to the allure of an MC man within the AUC community. Nothing against my CAU brothas, of course.
@Miss Patterson,
I completely agree with your statement. I was just talking to my grandmother today, and told her I was slightly jealous of how they dressed in her day. They were ALWAYS on point!
@Ms. Johnson, well break out the tweed! lol.
you know, when you see those pics in black and white, everybody looks really well kept. check out them technicolor yearbooks. there was a lot of HAMness going on.
@Miss Patterson, Exactly!
@Miss Patterson, but nothing is sexier than a well-dressed, clean cut, slightly prep, Black man. Look how our youth dressed before the early 70’s.
to you.
everybody doesnt love that. some folks think its lame. whoopty do.
and let’s be real, excluding certain clothing choices isn’t going to increase the allure of a morehouse cat in the AUC. if dr. franklin’s plan works, nobody will notice any real difference b/w most morehouse men.
@Miss Patterson,
I see how this could really upset current students and stifle their creative attire, but nothing is sexier than a well-dressed, clean cut, slightly prep, Black man.
I agree wholeheartedly. But that doesn’t give an institution the right to force its students to dress a certain way. I prefer to see men w/out sagging jeans
and heels* but college isn’t the place where one must conform. Academic achievement is what is of importance.*They can go ahead and ban women’s clothing though; that is a bit much…
It’s a plot to make everyone conform.
Fight the power!!!
Let me stop…Really though, this is completely unnecessary. Your college years are a time for self expression. As long as those gentlemen are successfully pursuing degrees…whatever.
I have a feeling this is more about the young men whose style reflects hip-hop culture than it is about the guys wearing women’s clothes (although I’m sure there are enough there that caused them to be pointed out).
I can understand wanting the student body to reflect positively on the college, but that isn’t their job. Ppl are there to learn. Sagging jeans and stilettos don’t stop that (although I cannot say I’d appreciate seeing a man in heels).
Lord – I really enjoyed my lurking status, but I had a debate about this with one of myp eeps from a traditionally white institution.
Like Buxxy said – Hampton has had a dress code forever. Hell, in the ’70s the women set the admin building on fire so that the school could expand the dress code to allow them to wear pants. Bennett Belles (my aunt was one) had to wear hats and gloves when they went off campus. Howard – well, anything goes!
No, seriously, they’ve always been more liberal.
The reason why I understand (different from agree with) the dress code is two-fold: (1) As a former teacher, students now days truly don’t know what is appropriate and what is not.
(2) As much as I hate to say this, the Morehouse man is sometimes the only representation of a group of educated Black men that many of the corporations, etc. that recruit see. I see the dress code as furthering a positive image of the well-groomed student that contradicts stereotypes and prejudices.
I think that it’s inherent in HBCU culture to dress
. I’m headed back to Lurkville. . .
like you have some damn sense and home trainingnicely. When I went tohelllaw school right after graduating, I couldn’t believe what those people wore to class in a professional school because you never knew who was lurking in the hallways. Many firms would interview you right on the spot for positions (that’s how I got my first one) – and I think that’s what Morehouse is trying to get through the students’ heads. Presentation is everything. Sorry so long@AdrianainDC, Very good points. and co-sign!
@AdrianainDC,
LOL…I was getting ready to say the same thing! This is nothing new to Hamptonians . Shoot we couldn’t even go into the big caf if shorts were too short or if you had spaghetti stings tank tops on..no sir, you had to leave that loooonnggg line and troop yourself back up to S hall (Virginia Cleveland) and all those dang on steps and change. My roommate was FOREVER trying to buck the rules, lol..she learned by the 3rd time she had to do this.
But like someone else said, it’s a private institution with an awesome history. The students on campus are like advertising to parents who want to send the children to a “decent” college. You know how parents are, if they’re going to shell out the big bucks, they want the school to be what they want it to be. Administrators aren’t stupid…money and image are the bottom line, without endorsements and private grants there is no money, without money there is no image for a lot of HBCUs.
On the funny side though, they probably got freaked at seeing skinny jeans on young men, lol.
@Smiley Face,
“Administrators aren’t stupid…money and image”
Let’s keep it one hunnid. Morehouse’s rep speaks for itself. They have incredible success with their alumni in pretty much EVERY field I can think of. Nobody interested in the college or aware of their history was gonna see a drag queen on campus and say “Eff the powerful network and legacy! That boy gots on skinny jeans!”
It never stopped ppl from attending Princeton. It won’t stop folks from getting to Morehouse. Our people, though largely conservative
are not as conservative as the parents of prospective Princeton Douchy Tigersdeserve more credit than that.@Me fail english?,
Never said it would stop people from going. I said it’s about advertising. Half the people going to HBCUs (hell any prominent school) go because of a name, they don’t know jack shiggity about it’s history (or could care less, until they get there and still not even then) but they got the name proudly displayed on a bumper for all to see, that’s image. …they care about the pretty package.
@Smiley Face,
But who cares about the “pretty package” if it has no bearing on your enrollment? Why take strong action to change the advertising if it doesn’t change your results? That is stupid on the admins part in that it’s a waste of time and resources.
@Smiley Face,
Oh and if they’re so concerned with image they need to focus on the surrounding community. I was last on Morehouse’s campus in ’05 and if ever there was a reason to second guess sending my future son there, it had nothing to do with the Ru Paul doppleganger classmate and everything to do with whoever that was selling gold teefs by the gas station.
@Me fail english?,
Right! It’s a news story right now here in Atlanta about a Morehouse student who was recently shot. Not to mention the CAU student who was shot and the Spelmanite who was killed recently. I never felt in danger while I was at CAU and I’m still in the area and feel no threat (I’m from Detroit!!), but I do feel that safety for the students should be a bigger concern than making sure they leave their do-rag in the dorm room.
@Monk,
That is the thing, if you have a whole campus of thug wannabe’s then it breeds thug activity. If you tighten up the reigns and show these kids how to dress, some manners, and some morale then the whole of that class changes. Since it is obviously being missed in elementary, jr. high, and high school hek someone has to step up to the plate.
@Ms. Johnson,
Who’s a thug wannabe? People who wear baggy/skinny jeans ? What do my manners have to do with how my jeans fit? I dont think there’s a correlation between the two.
@Me fail english?,
I think that in theory it’s appropriate to say “This is some bull!” but in practice – the “dress yourself” theme is not working out. From the ‘House alum that I know, they support this move b/c they are sick of the
foolishnessthat they see as decreasing the reputation of their institution.People can say what they want – but let’s be real. It does look bad and unprofessional. I would be more than happy to debate the merits of free speech etc. with anyone all day since that is the field of law in which I practice. I do have a double-standard for that because unfortunately, society has a double-standard for Black men. And that is the very essence of the way we are taught at the Black Ivies, at least. We always have to be better than AND we are not going to give ANY other reason to be looked over. One can destroy the image of all.
@AdrianainDC,
What exactly is the black man getting looked over for when he wears his skinny jeans to the library? His gold teeth to the football game, etc.? And what white employers are scouting these dudes in the cafeteria expecting them to look like anything other than casual college students?
It’s absurd to draw the conclusion that “if he wears gold teeth to class, he’ll probably wear ‘em to a job interview.” I used to wear sweat pants to class at a real Ivy. My classmates wore pajamas. It didnt promote a “sleepy” culture and we all got jobs when we graduated.
@Smiley Face,
That was such a Hampton point of view!
My roomie/big sis was turned away from the caf because she’d just worked out and had a sports bra on under her tank! And she didn’t even want to eat in the caf! Dang!
Yoda (God rest her soul)The older ladies did not play. And that’s just how HU is. If you have a class in the business school on Wednesdays – had to wear a suit. Ogden attire anyone?I guess imho, this is really not a bad thing if it’s teaching students to be more presentable and it’s perpetuating a positive image. Honestly, the baggy pants and women’s clothing – not one’s sexuality – is an overt problem. And people can lie all they want to, but it is not a good look. At.all.
Dislaimer: I wore a uniform up until my freshman year at Hampton. Then I wore the “Hampton Uniform” (skinny jeans, leather jacket, boots
. Dress code = not that crucial. Go to another college if you don’t like it.
@AdrianainDC,
I wonder if corner dealers started wearing collared-shirts, slacks, and ties would the perception of “professional attire” change? and if corporate pale faces started to wear saggin’ jeans and ‘forces, what then?
“appropriate dress” has zero to do with appropriateness itself and everything to do with power distributions.
@Harold M. Clemens,
Um, I’m not sure if I follow your logic here – but I get the gist.
It is what it is. Now, if you’d asked me about this policy a few years ago when I was in my early 20s? I’d say it was messed up. But now that I’ve lived here – and in Europe – and I understand the dynamics and powerful stereotypes that exist about Blacks, I get what they are doing. My mom always said, college is about getting what you need to get a job. The other things are ancillary.
The admin at Morehouse already has the power, so that is not their motivation. One honest with one’s self and the ways of the world can disagree with their new policy, but will acknowledge that the logic behind it holds a lot of merit.
@AdrianainDC,
I HONESTLY dont think the policy makes sense on the following grounds:
-You have no idea where these kids are trying to go. So tryna get them in tip top shape for conservative, corporate culture is a waste of time. Esp since a lot of the movers and shakers in your Fortune 100 list are getting MORE casual.
-What these kids wear around the dorms has nothing to do with what they wear to job interviews. It was either you or someone else up top that said you wore skinny jeans, a leather jacket and heels to school. LOL. Where is that considered prof’l?
This seems to come from the Cos school of conforming to what we believe to be white stds so we can fit in with the man. Change your hair, change your jewelry, change your name so that the white man dont hold it against you. Ummm, on the low though the two (arguably) most powerful/influential people in the world are named Barack Hussein and Oprah. Oh yeah, and they’re black.
Wompington!
@Me fail english?, “wompington” Seriously? Because of different opinions? Hmmm. . .interesting.
I said that I wore those things – and absolutely would never wear them in a professional setting b/c they were inappropriate – and I knew that. BUT, it was neat and presentable and didn’t look sloppy. In fact, I dressed up more than wore jeans, so, that was my only point that quite frankly was directed in jest in response to my fellow Hamptonian who I am sure “got it”.
As far as your “real” Ivy, I went to a “real” one for law school and another “real” one for my masters and saw/hung out with the undergrads. The way they dressed would not have been predominant on my campus, not because of a dress code, but because that was the culture of the campus. I also saw the endless seminars on professional dress at those, like any other, schools. I will say again, HBCUs have differing cultures and this program does not fall out of line with it.
Again, I understand both sides of the argument – do you? As I stated before, if you’d asked me a few years ago, my response would be different. I base my opinion on my experiences. It’s not about making someone “white” no more than allowing the type of dress makes someone “black”. It’s just an image that they would like to keep in response to what has become obvious to them as shortcomings in appearance.
As for me, I’m a natural hair-wearing attorney at one of the biggest firms in the world. I do know that in the professional culture that I am in, there is an unspoken dress and appearance code and my friends questioned my ability to advance. I disagree with them, but I understand that I can’t roll in here with my afro, so I wear it in a bun. That’s not fair at all – but it is what it is, and I will play the damn game until I get what I want.
Again, try to see both sides. That is all.
@Adriana,
You make it sound like I personally attacked you. You presupposed that one who didnt see it your way isn’t being honest with oneself and the ways of the world and I am having trouble seeing both sides of the issue.
I pointed out the real Ivy (no need for quotes) distinction was in response to your “we at the black ivies” comment. I find it funny that you equate places that do this with the Ivies when we’ve never instituted any BS of this sort. At your Ivy everyone dressed biz-cas. Great! They still had a choice, not a code to follow.
Interesting how you got your draws in a knot because you felt attacked by “wompington” but (at least to this point) haven’t addressed the comment above.
@Me fail english?, “draws in a knot”
Wrong on so many levels. This is a blog on an interesting topic which is why I commented. There is nothing personal because I don’t know you – and you don’t know me. I actually understand exactly where you’re coming from, and actually can appreciate your comments and your point of view, though I disagree with them.
But as far as your snarky tone in this last response, you miss me with that. I said it was interesting because in debates, I’m not used to comments like that.
One thing about blogs is that you can never tell the tone of a post. I don’t know you and you definitely don’t know me enough to talk about my “draws”
Have a good one!
@AdrianainDC,
How about you “miss me” with the patronizing BS and insincere smileys.
(no smiley face)
@Me fail english?,
That was out of line and extremely uncalled for. Honestly, I’m not being patronizing nor am I being insincere. I truly do understand your p.o.v. and my comment about the “draws” was made in an attempt to let you know how light the situation was to me. I was trying to joke about the comments with you because it’s not that serious- but I got ya.
@AdrianainDC,
lol@ out of line/extremely uncalled for. I honestly didnt think it was so far from what you said to me (“Miss” me with that snarky tone or smthg) but I can be abrasive.
My fault. I apologize.
@Me fail english?,
No prob – disagreements make for interesting debates.
**clinks wine glass with yours** Now I’m going back to Lurkville. . .
@Harold M. Clemens,
“I wonder if corner dealers started wearing collared-shirts, slacks, and ties would the perception of “professional attire” change? and if corporate pale faces started to wear saggin’ jeans and ‘forces, what then?
“appropriate dress” has zero to do with appropriateness itself and everything to do with power distributions.”
This is a great point. What’s considered “proper attire” changes by the generation. I mean, Katherine Hepburn changed the game on what women “should” wear by rockin’ her pants but did she become less sophisticated or womanly because of her pants? Hells naw…she became famous for it. Did her acting ability suddenly disappear because she put on a pair of slacks? Despite the saying, in reality, the clothes do not make the man. They’re for show. Period.
@Cheekie,
Katherine Hepburn shoulda put on a skirt or changed her field (and never made progress).
Just like Michael Jordan shoulda wore coochie cutters to his job or quit (and never made progress).
Just like Martin and Medgar shoulda got up from the lunch counter or ate at home (and made no progress).
We here at VSB never challenge the status quo. *rolls eyes*
@Me fail english?,
*dying* @ the image of Air Jordan wearing coochie cutters.
@AdrianainDC, 2) As much as I hate to say this, the Morehouse man is sometimes the only representation of a group of educated Black men that many of the corporations, etc. that recruit see. I see the dress code as furthering a positive image of the well-groomed student that contradicts stereotypes and prejudices.
i’d agree with this if i really felt it was more of an, be the change you want to see type approach. i think its more of a be the change we want you to be so that we can claim morehouse looks like this.
@Panama Jackson,
I definitely see your side of the argument, but as I said before, there is a double standard. I think Morehouse is concerned with their students being “lumped in” and they are being preemptive in their approach to what is (in my opinion) a viable concern.
Can I go back to lurkdom now?
Hell, I gotta brief to file. . .
@AdrianainDC,
i’m just a tidbit confused. they are not saying “u must dress like this for an interview or in a professional environment” but they’re saying “u must NOT dress like this whilst living your life on campus”. not even class, but just on campus. campus (in my allen iverson ‘practice’ voice)? if people choose to limit their opportunities by dressing however they dress to class and not getting that on the spot interview, i think that’s on them.
i also hate the idea of having a select few people having to be the representation of a race….and it being based on appearance no less. can their actions not speak for them and not their murses?
@Chasdizz,
Dangit! Didn’t I say I was going back to lurking?!!! Geesh!
“i also hate the idea of having a select few people having to be the representation of a race” — Me too! You’re not going to get any disagreement from me on that statement. In our “post-racial” society, I would love nothing more than for others to look past the appearance/behavior of some and not to label all. But, it’s not happening and I doubt that it ever would.
We all know that it’s a double standard as to how Black men are perceived. And I think Morehouse is trying, in their own special way, to institute some reforms as a learning measure for students who really may not know. And there are students who really do not know protocol. The alums are the face of the school in the working world; but the school want companies and organizations to continue to be attracted to their campus and their students. They have sensed a culture change that is contrary to this particular mission and are trying to rectify it. Campus is a student’s “workplace”. I was always told that my job was school. . .The House is just acting on that mantra.
Now, can I ban you because of your “murses” comment?
The people at the plantation just peeked into my office because I laughed so loud and hard that I damn near fell out of my chair! Hi.lar.i.ous.
@AdrianainDC,
lol. u have to master the art of cough laughing. a laugh that becomes a “oh i’m just choking on something, don’t mind me.”
@Chasdizz,
I had it down but I was laughing so hard that I had to put my head on the desk. Whew. That really was a good one. Kudos – it made my day!
IMO, I think it has to deal with this skinny jeans fad ( I really hope it is) that these Black kids are running with. Also, the women’s clothing is a direct reference to the gay men that are at Morehouse, which is gonna cause them to enter a whole new realm of drama. Friends from that school have been commenting on how the school has changed and one of the main issue is how the image of the Morehouse Man has been changing.
So, do these schools hire fashion police to walk around campus telling people to change their clothing?
@aceklub, Right! Who’s doing the policing?? They probably do as we did when I was a teacher. Students who weren’t dressed according to the policy we sent to the principal’s office. In this case, I guess they’re sent to…uh…the administration building. Or not.
@Ms. Smart,
Well I for one would love to have this job. Walk around all day writing citations for highwaters and isht. I could see it now…
*cue dream sequence of Me Fail as ol’ Otis*
@aceklub, but has it changed? do folks view Morehouse Men differently now?
if they are i haven’t noticed. people still either love or hate Morehouse…
…and think that 95 percent of us are gay.
and we still get jobs.
@Panama Jackson,
Not only that, but most people’s impressions of Morehouse are NOT from what they see on your campus. In fact, most of us have never even been to yalls campus. We judge you guys (and every other school on Earth) by the skill/talent/status of your faculty & alumni. How this relates to men in tunics and du-rags is beyond me.
**gasp**Oh no (clutches pearls)! No women’s clothing?? Well, I guess the exodus to Spelman will begin tomorrow. Ooow.
@CAUtoDC, LMAO
@CAUtoDC, welcome and sh*t
i know…how bogus is that. if a dude wanna wear fishnets…
…well, he probably goes to Howard anyway.
@Panama Jackson, Hahahahahaha
only because you didn’t use FAMU as the example for this
@Panama Jackson, Easy easy fella. I’m a Howard representative through and through. Pin that on the Institute by the Sea (Hampton). lol.
Heh, everyone’s a unique little snowflake…
I personally support the dress code and believe it should have been instituted a long time ago.
Private schools FTW.
I’m torn on this one. On one hand college is a place for self-discovery and self expression, but on the other hand it’s a training ground for the real world (read: corporate america). Whether we like it or not, image is everything in this society, and those kids would do well learning this early on. I think Morehouse recognizes this, and saw the students lacking. Trust me a dress code will not keep them from discovering who they are as a person. If that is the case, all of us with jobs are screwed.
@Naturalbarbie,
“Trust me a dress code will not keep them from discovering who they are as a person. If that is the case, all of us with jobs are screwed.”
Good point. I can concede that. But on the other hand if they’re going to be who they’re going to be regardless maybe the dress code is, as PJ put it, merely lipstick on a pig and won’t change these dudes’ professionalism, manners, behavior etc.
@Naturalbarbie,
“On one hand college is a place for self-discovery and self expression, but on the other hand it’s a training ground for the real world (read: corporate america). ”
True enough, but is college really a 24/7 interview? Or only a study course for it? Because if it’s the latter…it shouldn’t matter what they are wearing.
By the same vein that ninjas shouldn’t define their identity by what they wear, the institution shouldn’t define their education by what they wear.
@Cheekie,
Yeah I don’t see the point of dressing “prof’l” when these kids aint getting paid for this ish and are therefore not professionals. There’s a time and place for everything? I agree. And the time place for prof’l clothing is in a boardroom, not the damn financial aid office.
@Me fail english?,
I’m sorry, but did I miss something? Morehouse is not telling the students what to wear, they are telling them what not to wear (no pun intended).
@Naturalbarbie,
Yeah, but so does corporate America. They tell us what not to wear too. Bottom line, “what to wear” and “what not to wear” ain’t that much different. Both are a part of dress code. And that’s what Morehouse is establishing.
@Naturalbarbie,
You may have missed a large part of the thread where people in support of the dress code cited a desire to achieve a prof’l look as one of the reasons the code was a good idea.
Prof’l attire=”what to wear”
@Me fail english?,
“Yeah I don’t see the point of dressing “prof’l” when these kids aint getting paid for this ish and are therefore not professionals.”
This is exactly what I was thinking. The main difference between the two settings is in one of them, you are getting PAID for your work.
@Naturalbarbie, but on the other hand it’s a training ground for the real world (read: corporate america).
i actually disagree with this. everybody isn’t trying to go into corporate america. ill say its a training ground, but in the sense that i think its so that you can start to learn who you are and determine your path in life.
now are morehouse we do place a large premium on going corporate thru our business department, but thats cuz so many of young black men are all about getting that paper.
Lol @ CAUtoDC
@Naturalbarbie, welcome and sh*t
@Panama Jackson,
Thanks and sh*t
Good Evening,
I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts and normally agree or find them quite amusing, however, tonight I simply think you are misguided. I am a proud graduate of Florida Agricultural & Mechanical University. As the proud Rattler that I am, and HBCU grad, I believe it is time to take a dose of reality. I commend your institution for taking its stance on the dress code, and further applaud them for having the backbone to say “Enough is Enough.” I would wholeheartedly support my institution if they voted to have such a dress code. Before you throw me under the bus, let me explain why:
1) Look at the history of your institution, or HBCU’s for that matter. They were implemented to breed excellence among our race, in the era of disenfranchisement. Just because we are no longer “disenfranchised” (and I use that term very loosely) does not mean that they do not continue to breed excellence. For instance, I am a graduated of the School of Business and Industry, for those who know my school SBI. We were accustomed to wearing suits everyday to class, forum, networking socials, and school events. This was mandatory! Why? Because it taught us how to maintain a certain standard and know when to be appropriate. Although I may have been the first to complain about wearing hot suits in 100 degree weather, I appreciate it all the more now, for the way I professionally developed.
2) You mentioned college is a time to express your personal clothing tastes. NO IT’S NOT! College is a time to go to a higher educational institution, hit the books, master a profession, network, and learn life long lessons that will secure your success in the future. There is a time and place for everything. Class and formal school functions is not a time to decide to wear your rainbow brite tshirt, stilletos, and LV book bag.
3) Your institution alone has been responsible for breeding some of the best and brightest men in our lifetime. Why would you oppose to them pushing your fellow colleagues to be better than what the world expects of them. The dress code named specific places where the attire was to be worn. What you do off campus, and at campus social events was not included.
4) It bothers me that you only posted that one rule from the dress code. As it relates to the dresses, I am all for your personal lifestyle choices, but once again there is a time and place for everything. Men in female wear or vice versa is NOT class or professionally appropriate.
I believe our society has become entirely to relaxed in our standards and expectations. Also on a side note…sagging pants has been around since the early 90′s, I believe we are all waiting for that “fad” to disappear. I though when Jay Z told me 30′s the new 20, I would never have to see his drawers again, however, sadly I was mistaken. At some point and time we need to be the men and women that we were destined to be.
@Ms. Johnson,
PREACH!
@Ms. Johnson,
Well said!!
@Ms. Johnson, I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts and normally agree or find them quite amusing, however, tonight I simply think you are misguided. I am a proud graduate of Florida Agricultural & Mechanical University. As the proud Rattler that I am, and HBCU grad, I believe it is time to take a dose of reality. I commend your institution for taking its stance on the dress code, and further applaud them for having the backbone to say “Enough is Enough.”
okay. was FAMU the school that took issue with women wearing natural hair does in their business school? if so, do you think that’s right?
and if it wasn’t…would you be okay with a school dictating the types of hairstyles that the student body was allowed to wear?
I couldn’t agree more with you P. I’m am not american,so alot of the history of certain things goes way over my head,but I am black and I find that it doesn’t matter what kind of black you are,there’s just this irritating thing about loooking,acting or talking a certain way…
I just think if you start putting restrictions on people,you open the door for more. Its kinda like reverse slavery if you ask me…Everyone has a right in this day and age to dress however they please. You may not like it,but that’s life…how many times have you seen people wearing things that make you go ‘she left teh hous lookng like that?’ and then get on with your day?
Does it have a bearing on our personal lives if a guy wears stilettos? Shouldnt we be just happy that they’re getting an education? And society has a way of putting people in categories adn labels and we complain alot about generalisations,but if you want to break free,how can you when stuff coming out of our own community is creating the same labels we despise?
I’m sorry,but I think it’s a whole bunch of sh*t and I can’t believe they’re serious as academics about this rule…let the students do them,and academics worry about providing the necessary information to equip them for life in the real world,instead of wasting time on this…
@Santi, thanks for your agreeance! lol.
welcome (i think)
I agree with your whole post Panama. Some of the most successful people ever don’t fit into a cookie cutter mold. If this is an attempt to make the students fall in, I actually think it’s a little sad. Especially given that these kids are paying for this educational experience, and are legally adults. I think it’s a little ridiculous.
Anybody/anything/any dress code that can get these young dudes to stop wearing the waistband of their pants at thigh level and damn near to their knees is A-Number-One-Okay in my book.
I cannot STAND this duck waddle/walk these dudes got going on. It is just crazy. However, I will say this as to the walk, back when I was a child, I can remember that folks hated to see young black men walk with a pimp stride. Today, I welcome a slight dip to the left and a cockiness to your step. I call it swagger. *I know – hated word.*
Oh… and we are visual creatures. We judge/form opinions first by what we see. It is an unobtainable ideal to think that we would not be measured by standards of appearance deemed fitting by current society. To sit here and debate it would be pointless pontification simply for the sake of exhausting brain cells and burning calories.
It’s like Sprite said – Thirst is nothing. IMAGE is everything.
@SexyCool,
“It’s like Sprite said – Thirst is nothing. IMAGE is everything.”
I think I remember this commerical going slightly different, but then again, I could be crazy.
@miss t-lee,
LMAO! It was the exact opposite! I see that Sprite comm’ls have left a lasting impression on SexyCool.
@Me fail english?, right…i was like…ain’t it the other way around?
@Panama Jackson,
LOL @ miss t-lee pointing it out. You KNEW what she meant! Pointing out flaws in what was otherwise a strong finish.
Ol’ Me fail english lookin asz…
@Me fail english?,
LMAO!
Hilarity. I stand by my *cough* strong finish *cough*.
@SexyCool,
No.
*sniggling*
@SexyCool, It is an unobtainable ideal to think that we would not be measured by standards of appearance deemed fitting by current society.
yeah, okay. and that would make sense if they’re like, “this is your life dress code”
it’s not. this is their “campus” dress code.
Lol@this silly ass policy. Another overpaid admin getting checks for doing nothing at all. Any rationale that can be given for why the dress code works can be summarily shot down when you look at the success of alumni from schools with no dress code. I wonder if he plans to address the dismally low 4-year graduation rate…or make a rule banning cheetos. You know…for the brothas that don’t eat good.
Womp, womp Mr. President
@Me fail english?,
“Any rationale that can be given for why the dress code works can be summarily shot down when you look at the success of alumni from schools with no dress code. ”
Word. It’s a bullish mandate designed by those that just wanna make a rule about anything to seem important. Instead of — I don’t know — actually doing something IMPORTANT.
@Cheekie,
…like pumping up the endowment. I dont understand how Morehouse finds the time to dictate personal taste when they spent years with poor infrastructure, declining enrollment, etc. If the school had all its ducks in a row I wouldnt be so critical. But they seem to harp on the pettiest of stuff. We just had a recession. My own school is hurt so I KNOW Morehouse got bigger things on their minds than men in tunics (at least they should) and hats in the cafeteria.
@Me fail english?, i feel like i should be defending morehouse here…lol. or throwing something at you…something…
@Panama Jackson,
Don’t defend them ninjas! Morehouse as an institution and Morehouse as a student/alumni body is two different thangs! I really dont know how they keep attracting and RETAINING the level of talent that they get there. Ol’ BET, “we the only game in town” arse ninjas.
In conversations that I’ve had, it seems like most people who are for the dress code just really have a strong disdain for the type of attire Morehouse is prohibiting. It’s not their personal preference so they think it’s a good thing. Just from some of the comments on here, one can see that women who prefer the dapper man are going to ride for the dress code.
My thing is this. After all that we (Blacks) have gone through to fight for the right to be educated, are you REALLY going to deny a man the right to learn just because of how he is dressed? That’s discrimination..and isn’t discrimination one of the key factors in why HBCU’s were established in the first place? Whether a dude wants to dress like Lil’ Wayne or Prince, it should have no baring on his right to receive an education. Shouldn’t the administration be more concerned about the knowledge being fed to the students as oppose to them wearing a do-rag?
In the spirits of former students of HBCU’s, I wish they would boycott this policy and stand up for their right to dress as they please.
@Monk,
Basically. There’s also a recurring theme in these posts that seems to assume all these kids are going to work for conservative, old guard, white collar firms. I had no idea Morehouse was the most specialized school in the whole country. Not only do you choose a field of study but a future corporate culture as well. Like you can’t study business and become the CEO of Timberland or head the legal dept at MTV (both wear jeans to work by the way). I’ve seen entrepreneurs come to work in whatever the eff they felt like. But I guess yalls new prez isn’t interested in fostering the spirit of intrepid individuality that makes folks exceptional enough to get to these places. Ol’ aim low, self-stifling, middle mgmt arse ninja.
@Me fail english?,
I totally agree. It’s like they want everyone to fall into the robot syndrome. I expect a lot more than that from Morehouse. Next thing you know, they’ll want to ban dreads and Spelmanites will be forced to relax their hair for the sake of it being moreso acceptable in corporate America. GTFOH!!
@Monk,
Exactly. More than anything I think this country suffers from a dearth of creative, independent thought. Shame on Morehouse’s myopic attempt to thwart self-expression.
P.S. Maybe folks didn’t read the original document but the reason this is unlike any other dress code is that these ninjas are paying to live here and the policy isnt just for class. It’s for the WHOLE DAMN CAMPUS and campus sponsored events. You can’t sag to the tailgate? No eating at the cafe (a meal plan you already paid for, by the way, unless your attire meets their criteria? GTFOH! That’s not just setting standards for dress. That’s a change to a man’s entire lifestyle for four years.
@Me fail english?, i actually don’t think most folks read any of it. folks think they’re gonna make ninjas wear suits. they’re not.
they’re going to outlaw certain other stuff. big difference.
@Panama Jackson,
Just to be fair I did read the document and it completely went over my head that the policy looks NOTHING like a professional dress code that makes most rules in the affirmative (eg. you must wear a jacket)…until you pointed that out.
@Me fail english?,
word life!
@Me fail english?,
Right!!…The two highest paid members of my circle of friends haven’t worn anything business or professional in years…one sits on a set all day in jeans and that woman barely combs her hair and the other sits in her pajamas all day in front of her computer.
@Me fail english?,
Thank you for being one of the voices of reason in this otherwise disappointing thread. As a black girl who went to a PWI, I am quite thankful I was allowed the freedom to rock a hoodie and pajama bottoms when I was running late for a PoliSci test.
Though I’ve always respected HBCUs, the myopia of certain institutions has left me baffled. I’m not a fan of hella saggy jeans and gold fronts, but I’m pretty sure that the kids running around in them today won’t be doing it five to 10 years from now. But hey, it’s all about make ourselves palatable to the mainstream–the same mainstream that was rocking Coed Naked tees and sk8er shorts when I was in college 10 years ago.
@Monk,
Thank you so much for this comment!
@Naturally Alise,
My pleasure.
@Monk,
“My thing is this. After all that we (Blacks) have gone through to fight for the right to be educated, are you REALLY going to deny a man the right to learn just because of how he is dressed? That’s discrimination..and isn’t discrimination one of the key factors in why HBCU’s were established in the first place?”
*dap*
@Monk, In conversations that I’ve had, it seems like most people who are for the dress code just really have a strong disdain for the type of attire Morehouse is prohibiting.
basically, its easy as hell to agree with something that doesn’t negatively impact you.
@Monk,
Dear Monk, you rock my entire collection of socks for this. Thank you & yo mama.
Sinsurrly,
Luvvie
I’ve had a dress code in high school, in the workplace, etc- everywhere you go, you are expected to dress a certain way,and now Morehouse has a preference.
The dress code is not even cutting out that much, it’s even more lax than some clubs (ETC.: no tennis shoes, must wear a jacket ).
They want their students to look professional- completely understandable.
Men can wear their saggy pants and women’s clothes on the weekends.
@Nicki Sunshine,
Exactly.
@Nicki Sunshine,
“Men can wear their saggy pants and women’s clothes on the weekends.”
No. They can’t. Not if they plan on being on campus, where I’m sure some portion of the students live.
And that’s the difference between your high school, workplace and tennis club. You didn’t spend the better part of a year eating, learning, living there for the vast majority of your waking hours. Further, when you sign up for tennis club, choose to go to a upscale restaurant etc. those are very short term commitments wherein you usually know of the dress code PRIOR to handing over your bread. These kids already invested time and money into a place that changed the game on ‘em for the next year or three. And let’s not front like tranferring credits is such a cake walk that they can then just say “fine, bounce”.
@Me fail english?, It’s not a cake walk, but it can be done.
If one’s school is implementing a policy that is KILLING them to follow and taking their individuality away like some people are acting like this one is, just go somewhere else.
I just tried to find specifics that said the students had to walk around like this and found:
“Students who choose not to abide by this policy will be denied admission into class and various functions and services of the College if their manner of attire is inappropriate. Examples of inappropriate attire and/or appearance include but are not limited to:”
That doesn’t say to me, that they have to adhere 24/7, though…But I could be wrong.
@Nicki Sunshine,
Okay. Maybe that just refers to the women’s clothing section I was looking at this part:
No wearing of clothing associated with women’s garb (dresses, tops, tunics, purses, pumps, etc.) on the Morehouse campus or at College-sponsored events.
Tunics aren’t necessarily women’s clothing which makes me think it’s not flamboyantly drag-type clothes so much as it’s anything subtly feminine but whatev.
And though not impossible, it is a MAJOR inconvenience to transfer credits and schools. I tried to transfer Chem and Calc credits from Carnegie Mellon (a premier institution, highly lauded for sci/math/eng depts) to an Ivy that was probably less acclaimed in those areas and had to threaten babies to get my credit. So while they dont have guns to their heads forcing them to attend, they’re being inconvenienced for nothing.
That’s like saying well if you dont like the neighborhood assoc’s rule about not having flowers in your yard, just move. Easier said than done and very insensitive to suggest.
@Me fail english?, Nope, transferring is not easy.. I’ve transferred colleges at least three times and have tons of credits that cannot be used and I would have graduated if I hadn’t.
but I wasn’t happy- so I left.
Women’s clothing?! Is this what’s hot on the yard?
LMAO!!!!!
*You already know how I feel about you Morehouse kats anyway…lol
Seriously, though–I think they are on that bullisht. As much as I hate baggy pants and do-rags, I don’t agree with them laying out a dress code. No self-expression for you!!!!
@miss t-lee,
*You already know how I feel about you Morehouse kats anyway…lol .
Tell us how you feel! LOL
@V Renee,
My immediate ex was a Morehouse man, so I see them in a less than favorable light.
But that’s…okay…(word to Stuart Smalley)
*whispering* the passwords are B.A.N and Diva Dude.
Plus I just like to give PJ a rough time…lol I’m sure they aren’t all that way…
I think.
@miss t-lee,
*whispering* the passwords are B.A.N and Diva Dude. .
LMAO!!!!!!!!
@miss t-lee,
LMAO! They’re not all like that. In fact I think they’re mostly not like that. But I’d be lying if I said it didn’t seem to be a higher prevalence…
hahaaha!
@Me fail english?,
I know, I know.
You feel me on both counts.
Don’t conform live life as you like it!! If yo mama let you be a cross dresser, who is the university to stop you? Educate the kids that’s your only business. University not Uniformity…
a fellow spelman sister and i were just talkin about this over lunch the other day. i graduated way back in 03 but she came out in 07 and she was tellin me that things have gotten out of control at morehouse wit mugs walkin round like derek j and the like.
we both think that this new dress code is an outgrowth of a more covert move at morehouse to ensure that the current student body reflects the traditional images of morehouse men i.e. professional, classic, heterosexual ,(or at least outwardly so), confident, etc. and that is the deeper issue and one which is unique to morehouse because of the history of homophobia among black males. you’d prolly never see a dress code banning mens clothes at spelman.
that being said, i like the dress code just on gp. i believe in things being decent and in order in educational and professional settings. it’s about appropriate attire for school. you can do all the expressing you want in the streets of atl. but when you come on campus that needs to be toned down. same goes for jobs and such. i don’t need to see your shoulder hanging out in class. no matter if its a wife beater or an off the shoulder shirt a la derek j.
@mint julep,
heterosexual ,(or at least outwardly so), .
::snickering::
@mint julep,
“i believe in things being decent and in order in educational and professional settings.”
It’s comments like this that have me really hoping that locks, braids, goatees, large jewelry (including the chunky ethnic kind) and anything else deemed “indecent” gets outlawed on those campuses next.
I hate that everyone says “its a Private school dont go”. Should I not have an opinion of what they do? Are they above reprimand b/c they are private? Imagine if we applied that logic everywhere. “O, that company is a privately owned company so if you work there you’re going to be sexually harassed so you shouldnt work there” GTFOHWBS.
Another case of an HBCU and their over-prescriptive, baby sitting esque monitoring of student life as if we were in the 30′s
@Peysonic Temple,
Let the church say AMEN!
Saying “But they’re private” is no different than saying “But their colors are maroon and silver”. Oh ok! Now I see that they are above reproach because they are “private”!
GTFOHWTBS, indeed.
@Peysonic Temple,
“Another case of an HBCU and their over-prescriptive, baby sitting esque monitoring of student life as if we were in the 30’s”
Exactly. If anything, their method of teaching men how to be men is a little arse-backwards. They’re basically being their mamas and laying out their school clothes on the bed.
I mean, the question is, will it stop with the Dress code? Folks already have curfews and whatnot so I wouldn’t put it past ‘em to issue more mandates. It is a very conservative society in that world.
@Peysonic Temple,
Should I not have an opinion of what they do? Are they above reprimand b/c they are private?
You have the right to reprimand/critic/voice your opinion as much as you want… just like Morehouse as a private institution aka “citizen” has the right to implement their rules and regulations.
Free speech is what it is.
@Sula in lalaland,
(I think) he’s saying whether or not they’re priv’t and have the legal right to do this is not at issue. We’re discussing whether it’s a morally and practically sound decision. Plenty of reasons to fight both sides of the argument. But “they have a right to” sounds pedestrian and beneath the intelligence of our vsb’s. Kinda like debating the ills of slavery and someone saying “well it was done in 1858 so they had a right.” They sure did. But we’re not debating entitlements.
If negroes knew how to wear their pants correctly without showing all their draws they may not have needed a dress code….thank you.
@QueenT,
Co-sign.
I’m not the biggest fan of rules, but I’m also not a fan of men walking around in heels and purses. I’m all about g.a.y people or whatnot, but this trend of them dressing like women and sashaying around campus bothers me. If I was a teacher at an all male school, I wouldn’t want to look out in the classroom and see men dressed as women. Take that ish to Spelman!
I think they really wanted to stop the men from running around in dresses/skinny jeans/heels/make up, but knew if they tried to stop that, then they would have to stop everything else.
@V Renee,
“I think they really wanted to stop the men from running around in dresses/skinny jeans/heels/make up, but knew if they tried to stop that, then they would have to stop everything else.”
Good point.
@miss t-lee,
These he-shes then phucked the game up for everyone else. Why couldn’t they stick with their xtra smedium shirts? Nooooooo they had to go slap some heels and make up on. SMH but LOL.
Sagging pants and do rags have been around for YEARS……men in handbags and low cut shirts showing fake clevage, is a new trend. I’m blaming RHOA!
@V Renee,
Hahah. You can’t blame RHOA completely…lol Well IDK, maybe like 45%. I blame the rest on Andre J. (google him baby!!)
‘Round these parts–you hardly see it. I mean, we have a big alternative population too. You’ll see rainbow stickers/license plate frames on cars, and maybe some snappage, but I can’t recall ever seeing a dude fully decked in women’s clothing.
I take that back, I’ve met two–but they were in the beginning stages of becoming a chick.
Chu’ch! I feel you guys on this one too! The HBCUs are really messin up this week and my blog is practically writing itself. Im just waiting on my alma mater Howard to mess up today or tomorrow.
As in life, it is up to the person to assess what is appropriate and what is not…to understand and learn by experience that the image you set forth is directly related in most circumstances to how successful you will become and how seriously you are taken. If you find that you are not taken seriously in debates in your Political Science class, perhaps you should cease wearing a red & black half & half do-rag and Faux-sa-chee glasses while in class. Seems simple enough, but you gotta allow people to make their mistakes so that they learn from them. A dress code only enforces the same dependence on authority the student has had since elementary school to govern their everyday decisions.
Real recognize real,
The Shaka Shaw Show
@shakashawshow, word.life.
i’m payin *my* money for school…..then i’m dressin how *I* want….period
ashy toes and all
@kingpinenut,
“ashy toes and all”
hahah
No socks with your flip-flops huh?
@miss t-lee,
socks with sandals!!!!!!???!!? hell NAW
give me 30 years…though….maybe some calf high black knit jobs….
@kingpinenut,
LMAO!!!! I can dig it.
Good Lawd..it’s a dress code, not the end of the earth! What the problem iya?
@Smiley Face, first its a dress code…then its starbucks…
next thing you know, morehouse is howard and the world will implode.
All men who wear women’s clothing are not gay, and all gay men don’t wear women’s clothing…just thought I’d clear that up since some people seem to be confused.
Anyway, I do think it’s a little overbearing for a college to tell students how to dress, unless that school is a religious institution and the dress code is to preserve modesty ( I think those types of colleges are overbearing, too, but that is a different story). Schools like Harvard, or Yale, or even the little selective Midwest school I attended don’t have dress codes (you’re wearing PJs to class? Really?), and their students have gone on to do great things, all while dressed appropriately.
@Dee, i know right. look at me…i wear my sunglasses at night and i’m a damn G.
lol
welcome and sh*t
I tried really hard.
Like, really, really, really hard.
Seriously, if “trying hard” was “being publicly told that “your money’s no good here, b*tch”, I would have been “rush limbaugh”
But, despite my efforts, I just cant muster any sympathy for those thinking that this simple dress code is a bad thing. I mean, they’re basically just asking them to wear clothes that fit and not to wear outside clothes (sunglasses, hoods, hats, etc) inside. Its not like they’re requiring air force academy uniforms or anything.
Seriously, if an 18-22 year old f*cking adult man is so freaking sensitive and b*tchass that they “can’t be themselves” unless they’re allowed to rock their grills or pumps(????) in stats class, then they don’t deserve to be on earth breathing my air, let alone on a college campus. Grow the f*ck up.
Any fervor this causes is just more proof to me that so many of us (black men) have never celebrated fathers day.
@The Champ,
They ain’t hearing you bruh.
@The Champ,
I have to agree with you, Champ. I think our standards for black men have fallen so low that now, when someone requires the basics, we think they are asking for too much. There was a time I expected a man to take off his hat when he entered a building, or at least when he sat down to eat.
@N.I.A. naturally,
“There was a time I expected a man to take off his hat when he entered a building, or at least when he sat down to eat.”
They still do. Kats that were raised right…at least.
@The Champ, Any fervor this causes is just more proof to me why so many of us (black men) have never celebrated fathers day.
This is interesting. And to be honest I don’t fully disagree with the tone of your post. I do think that the issue is a little more nuanced though than, Man up. Deal with it.
@pgh muse,
I do think that the issue is a little more nuanced though than, Man up. Deal with it.
i don’t.
@The Champ,
“Seriously, if an 18-22 year old f*cking adult man is so freaking sensitive and b*tchass that they “can’t be themselves” unless they’re allowed to rock their grills or pumps(????) in stats class, then they don’t deserve to be on earth breathing my air, let alone on a college campus. Grow the f*ck up. ”
Okay, but isn’t Morehouse kinda doing the same thing alleging that a well-tailored suit would uphold their “standard”. In both cases, folks are saying that clothes would make them “who they are”. So, I don’t see how men complaining about their identity through clothing is any different from Morehouse issuing mandates on dress code based on their “standard”.
@Cheekie,
i like you like fat midgets like walmart (and usually agree with your comments), but this argument is terribly flawed.
on a college campus, your deans and presidents and whoever are the authority figures, people who have been appointed to weld decision and rule making power. basically, its part of their job description to make and enforce standards dealing with everything from admissions policy to homecoming decorum.
they’re not only allowed to create a “standard”, they’re getting paid a ton of money to do so.
students who don’t agree with the standards, who’d rather go through the hassle of transferring schools instead of buying pants with a 34 inch waist instead of 42, don’t have to stay there.
see, for me, the argument has nothing to do with “looking professional in school” (which i could really give a damn about) and everything to do with kids who’ve been babied their entire lives. in order to reach your goals (which, in this case would be graduating from college) sometimes you’re gonna have to do things and act in a certain way that might inconvenience you a bit. i don’t think morehouse would be doing their job if they didn’t teach its men that simple fact.
@The Champ,
“i like you like fat midgets like walmart (and usually agree with your comments), but this argument is terribly flawed. ”
I like you like fatter midgets like Sam’s Club (and usually look forward to your “deez” comeback”, but no it’s not.
“see, for me, the argument has nothing to do with “looking professional in school” (which i could really give a damn about) and everything to do with kids who’ve been babied their entire lives.”
Yeah, but that’s for you. Morehouse stated it was to uphold their standard. I didn’t make that up. Hence, the reason I have a problem with it.
It’s in the very first paragraph of the article Panda linked:
“In early October of this year, Morehouse College Administration will enact its new “Appropriate Attire Policy”. Based on Dr. Franklin’s conceptualization on the Renaissance Man, specifically his expectation of the “well-dressed” man of Morehouse, the policy will set a campus-wide standard for student’s attire.”
Ol Prez Morehouse is trying to uphold an image. Same as the cats “crying” about upholding their own. Both are just images…they don’t truly make the man. If anything, those setting such a ridiculous and unfounded label of a person based on “attire” are the ones that need to grow the f*ck up, IMO.
@Cheekie,
Well said and in 100% agreement!
@The Champ,
in order to reach your goals (which, in this case would be graduating from college) sometimes you’re gonna have to do things and act in a certain way that might inconvenience you a bit.
Pretty much.
@The Champ, Panama…is that you???
and father’s day…whats that?
@Panama Jackson,
lol, what i’m implying with the “father’s day” comment is that a ton of these kids have gone through their entire lives without a male authority figure that put the fear of God in them, without a dad or uncle or coach to smack them in the head if they weren’t acting or dressing appropriately.
to me, protesting something as trivial as a dress code (a soft dress code at that) is a symptom of a mindset that says that you can do and say whatever you want whenever you want to do it without consequence, a prevailing thought that pandemic fatherlessness helps to create. this state of mind eventually permeates everything you do, even leading to “i’m too special to be subject to a wack dress code”
obviously, a certain style of dress isnt a definite precursor to a successful career, as all the flip-flop and beater rocking college students turned corporate lawyers on vsb proves. but, along with the “personal expression”, part of the college experience is learning how to learn, as well as when to adapt and adjust your behavior, and i don’t see the problem with making a young adult do that very thing.
@The Champ, i’d agree with this wholeheartedly if i felt their sole goal was to make Morehouse men better people and ensuring that spending all of that money would ensure just that. i however, think it has very little to do with adjusting behavior b/c that’s what civilized people do so much as its, we’ve seen these things and we don’t like it and it doesn’t fit how we think you should be, therefore…don’t do this. i don’t feel its rooted in any sincere attempts to help me be the best i can be and grow as a person.
@The Champ,
Good points here. But like with Saule below, is it your contention that the dress code is the prescription for the “Im too fly for this dress code”? I think a student with that mentality, esp if they carry this out beyond undergrad is in for a rude awakening even if he conforms to the standard.
C/S what Panama said regarding my opinion of what the dress code is supposed to accomplish.
Honey the dress code was brought about because Morehouse has been taken over by Queens dear, and I don;t even live in the ATL but this I know…some guy and I can;t remember who wrote a serious article about how Morehouse had a huge population of FLAMBOUYANT openly gay men – not one to judge – and more than likely DL dudes, how he was disturbed at how it was tainting the name and legacy of the institution……
@OrangeStar616,
This reminds me of an older alumni whining about the “darkening” population of my high school and how it was tainting the reputation and tradition of the school. Yup, he was talking directly to me. SMH.
@Me fail english?, smh…..dude was saying in this article how the Queens were really serving it= purses, womens clothing etc, all that loudness associated some, yeah he really went in but moreso in a plead to uphold some type of dignity and decorum even if you are homosexual..dayum I wish I could remember dudes name *kanye shrug*
@OrangeStar616,
I like how people throw out the word ‘dignity’ as if tight jeans excludes you from having self-respect. Some people think fat folks look sloppy and lazy. To dictate that students can’t be over 250 pounds sounds just as silly and selfish to me.
@OrangeStar616, not that i don’t believe you…i’m just saying, i went to morehouse and still keep in touch and i haven’t heard about this huge purse-wielding flamboyant fishnet posse. at all.
@Panama Jackson,
i wonder if this posse is about 5 people deep, and through the playing of telephone, this posse has transformed into 99.98% of the morehouse population.
@Panama Jackson, I heard about it and more than once, and it wasn’t over the phone, given the large population of homosexuals in ATL it isn’t very hard to believe*kanye shrug*..but whateva I know folk have love for thoer former institutions of higher learning
Posts like these really bring out a lot of people’s homophobic tendencies and/or class biases. Some of the comments on here are just… wow. I do wonder though how many folks would care about the dress code if it addressed something that they wore… would be an entirely different discussion…
@Naturally Alise,
Yeah. Morehouse’s dess code actually hits on all types of casual wear. But judging from the comments, sheesh! I think ppl would be absolutely fine if the dress code said nothing more than “No gay arse clothing”.
This dress code in all of its specifics (at least those argued on this board) seems to target the appearance of a very specific group of people. In case you were sleeping it’s NOT the overly casual, non-professional set. The rhetoric is an implicitly non-gay policy which sets a “dont ask, dont tell” type precedent that is a VERY slippery slope.
I wonder how the supporters would feel if they had dress code of no hijabs and no kufis because “people will judge you” and “it doesn’t look prof’l” and “well why dont you just take off the burqa or leave school, I mean, it is private and you know how parents feel about the image of a school where kids have on yarmulkes and such. They’re taking over!”
Eat me, folks!
@Me fail english?,
“This dress code in all of its specifics (at least those argued on this board) seems to target the appearance of a very specific group of people. In case you were sleeping it’s NOT the overly casual, non-professional set. The rhetoric is an implicitly non-gay policy which sets a “dont ask, dont tell” type precedent that is a VERY slippery slope.”
Hell yeah. Despite my hatred for skinny jeans on the ninjas, the “no women clothing” rule pisses me off the most because it reeks of homophobia…
I don’t particularly care for skinny jeans, but who the eff am I to tell a ninja he can’t wear ‘em. Hell, I’m sure there are certain articles of clothes I wear that folks don’t like too. (Naw, that’s impossible…I’m fly. lol)
@Me fail english?,
THIS is all that needs to be said. All you were missing was a *drops mic* *3 stomps on floor* and an inappropriately-yelled “SECKCHUAL CHOCLIT!”
I dislike dress codes on ALL levels. From elementary school, to NBA players sitting on the sideline, and this is no exception. They’ll learn when they slowly, but surely see, declining enrollment. I can go with the sagging pants thing, but no hats? seriously? Professional men don’t wear hats?
@undressingHER,
You’re UNDRESSING. Of course, you would not like DRESS codes.
*teasing*
I don’t like seeing men walking around in women’s clothes, I don’t like seeing doorags in public, and I detest the hip-hop/BET takeover of young men’s fashion. However, it’s not my place to impose my strict standards on the men of Morehouse. But I do understand why President Franklin is doing it.
When I was at Spelman, I can only think of one man of Morehouse who pranced around in women’s clothing. I can’t recall his name, but I think he was a senior during my first year. He wore the the tight jeans, little tops, heels, etc. Neither do I recall a great deal of men walking around in doorags, white tees, and sagging jeans. From what I can tell from the current students and from the implementation of these rules, the climate of Morehouse is changing, and not necessarily for the betterment of the institution, or the men who attend this institution.
I agree they should not stifle the individualism of their students. College is about finding yourself, and a lot of that come from being able to freely express yourself. But when you can no longer tell your students apart from the locals surrounding the school , I think that is a problem. Since I’ve left, crime has definitely increased around the area, and perhaps, the administration want to make sure they can tell who is supposed to be there (enrolled student) and who is not (random local from across the street). As for the women’s clothing, I wonder if that is about expression or about purposely trying to stand out. None of the gay men I know wear women’s clothing, and are embarrassed by the men who do. They also blame these men for making it harder for the black community to accept homosexuality b/c many folk look at the men in women’s clothing, and assume that is indicative of all gay men. Basically, they view those men in the same light many heterosexuals view BET(bufoonery electronically transmitted).
All in all, I like some parts of the code, and I dislike some parts of it. Honestly, back in the day, our community had much more respect for ourselves and for others. Now not so much. I don’t see anything wrong with Morehouse wanting to portray an image of dignity, respect, and class. And in this sense, class is a state of mind, not an economic situation.
@N.I.A. naturally,
“But when you can no longer tell your students apart from the locals surrounding the school , I think that is a problem.”
Why is it a problem? The black kids on my campus dressed alot like the black locals in the area. We graduated and got jobs.
@Me fail english?, it can definitely be a problem from a public safety standpoint. a lot of HBCUs are either located in the hood or in the boonies. crime happens everywhere of course but when trying to be proactive in an area thats in a bad neighborhood and “open” is difficult.
@Reecie,
Good point.
..I still hate the dress code, though! mwahahaha!
@Me fail english?, I don’t blame you. lol. I kinda hate it too.
@N.I.A. naturally, But I do understand why President Franklin is doing it.
this is the thing, i get why he’s doing it and thats the reason i don’t agree with. trying to protect some image of morehouse against the thought of who’s there is the problem. you take issue with who’s there…go full asshole and interview us all before admission.
weed ninjas out before they get there. dont let them show up and then tell them who they are is wrong.
@Panama Jackson,
I agree that they should weed ninjas out. I’ve always thought Morehouse, and sometimes Spelman, had become too lax on their admissions requirements. And I agree, it is about protecting some image. I guess I’m just not that angry about it. They don’t specifically tell the fellas to wear business casual everyday, they tell them to pull up their pants. Why is that a problem for folks? Is that really restricting freedom to tell a man not to have his boxers showing b/c his pants are around his thighs? To take your hat off inside the building?
@Panama Jackson, *thumbs up*
Grown men? I don’t think so. When I entered Morehouse as an 18 year old, I may have been an adult physically, but I mentally and intellectually I was still a child. The truth is that a lot of college students lack common sense, and need the instruction that the college is attempting to give them.
It should also be kept in mind that the college isn’t forcing one strict standard of dress. I didn’t see any rules preventing students from wearing traditional African garb, or clothing that makes a political or religious statement. Self-expression through clothing should have limits, and is relative. There’s a big difference between wearing a shirt with Tommie Smith and John Carlos on it, and one that says “Bitches Ain’t Shit”. Both are forms of expression, but one is more appropriate for a college setting. Right?
@Ki,
Word. I also agree that the vast majority of us were a stretch from being a “grown a** man” circa ages 18-22 which in turn makes the dress code even more sensible.
@Ki,
“I didn’t see any rules preventing students from wearing traditional African garb, or clothing that makes a political or religious statement.”
I think they specifically stated that these are exceptions. Besides, they can’t prevent that even if they tried anyway. It is unlawful and unethical. They were probably required to include that disclaimer.
“Grown men? I don’t think so. When I entered Morehouse as an 18 year old, I may have been an adult physically, but I mentally and intellectually I was still a child.”
This is relative, though. I know 29 year olds that still have the mentality and intellectual capacity of a child. And that number can get higher. I believe people become “grown” by their experiences, not necessarily by the number of years they’ve been here (quality of years over quantity of years is my motto) and definitely not by a dress code established by an institution.
@Ki, while i understand where you’re coming from in principle…when i showed up at morehouse, nobody would say i wasn’t a grown man. i paid for myself to be there and held a full time job while paying bills for other family members.
of course i was also slanging rocks so tomato/tomahto.
just kidding. kind of.
but when you and i got there (yeah, i see you hombre) though we definitely had some maturing and growing to do, do you think that you needed a dress code to keep you in line? b/c we didnt have one. not an explicitly stated one anyway. folks were allowed to be grown and make mistakes, like rocking a ‘b*tches aint sh*t” shirt at spelman and learning to deal with the consequences of such.
and just why ISN’T the “b*tches ain’t sh*t” shirt appropriate for a college setting?
@Panama Jackson,
Good point. For the folks in favor of the dress code: Do you really feel like some of your peers were at a loss because they were allowed to wear grills in class? Are the sagging pants set really doing that much worse than the people who wore belts?
The black men at my school rocked baggy Dickies, Jordans, du-rags and all other manner of hip hop wear. They mostly make more money than me. (cuz they stankin asses went to the B-school so eff their mothers!)
@Me fail english?,
To me the whole point is absolutely not the content of the dress code, it’s the ability for individuals to understand that certain institutions/organizations will have dress codes and rules one might not like and either decide to stick with those rules OR take the responsibility to get out and change in some way or the other.
It’s really that basic, kinda like what The Champ talked about.
Seriously, you’re upset because they can’t wear “fitteds”, women’s clothes, and sag their pants?
I don’t see a problem with the dress code. I went to a private HBCU, and we had a dress code as well, I support his decision to institute one. I mean really, some of these college students should start taking their appearance more seriously. If you are in an institute of higher learning, I don’t see the problem with distinguishing yourself from the masses in the ‘hood’ surrounding your school. He didn’t say they could never wear those things, but hell, if you’re attending class I don’t see the issue. You really think they will outright ban those things on campus at any given time knowing that people live there 24/7? I highly doubt it. It’s not like they are requiring them to show up in class with suits on. Simple improvements to look like college students.
I’m sure many of us have seen pictures of HBCU’s and other colleges and universities in the 60′s and 70′s those students were dressed going to class, like full on dressed up. Nowadays far too many chicks show up in class half naked, and the dudes looking like some shit out of a rap video. I support the dress code, do what you want on the weekends and stuff, but hell when you’re attending class, look the part.
@sunyblack
Soon they’ll enforce a weekend dresscode. Then a dresscode-when-your-not-in-class dresscode.
@sunyblack, I’m sure many of us have seen pictures of HBCU’s and other colleges and universities in the 60’s and 70’s those students were dressed going to class, like full on dressed up.
in the 60s and 70s, dudes also played basketball in loafers and dress shirts on playgrounds. folks didnt seem to wear anything but suits and stuff back then.
and yes…i am, what does telling me not to sag my pants have to do with my leadership abilities.
and let’s be real…most the area surrounding the campuses is being cleaned the f*ck out anyway. hood rats didnt exactly come trouncing on our campus. Clark? that’s a different story but they’re campus surrounds a damn project.
This is exactly why I did not attend an HBCU. This should be the least of their worries.
Good post though.
@ugh, thanks.
welcome and sh*t
I just wanted to restate this as a separate comment.
I wonder some of the backlash is a result of the people not wanting these boys, many of which have been accused of ‘acting white’ because they were smart, to also ‘dress white’. They don’t get to express themselves through their clothing. Translation: They don’t get to keep it real. Translation: They don’t get to dress Black…and we all know Black means ghetto/hood.
@Ms. Smart,
“Translation: They don’t get to keep it real. Translation: They don’t get to dress Black…and we all know Black means ghetto/hood.”
Mmmhmm. Great point.
Check out my story:
Pride and Peril: Historically Black Colleges and Universities
http://diverseeducation.com/artman/publish/article_12914.shtml
I understand what Dr. Franklin is trying to do. My issue is that he is trying to hard.
“Now slap me silly and call me Susan J. Elmo, but I’m really curious about this need to outlaw women’s clothing. ”
Which makes me wonder…sense niccas are getting more metrosexual as they come (some are even gettin’ to Andre Leon Talley territory), are they gonna start considering skinny jeans “women’s clothing”. They should, because I hate them on mens. No, I kid, I kid. That’s not right, yo.
This new dress code is dayum near a uniform. And I get the idea for uniform…it’s discipline…FOR CHILDREN. Immature as college-aged folks can be, they’re legally adults. Folks should treat ‘em as such. Hell, the Army and Tobacco Industry treats us that way when we reach that age, why can’t other institutions?
“But I also have an issue with this whole “image” thing that we in the Black community are so obsessed with.”
So do I. This “Bill Cosby” mentality of baggy jeans-wearing ninjas are thugs by default while tailored suit wearing ninjas are entrepreneurs by default is ridiculous. A three piece suit does NOT a responsible nicca make. Image is just that. A dayum picture. And yes, it says a “thousand words”…but they’re still just words. They don’t show for sh*t.
And sure, we make first impressions on how a person dresses, but this is college. A daily grinding of essays, finals, midterms, outlines, notetaking,
homecoming, and highlighting. None of this grind is defined by a well-groomed pair of pants. I went to a PWI and if I had a “too effing early to be up” class (a mistake I only made ONCE…in freshie year), I’d throw on the sweatpants and call it a day. Was I any less there because I wasn’t dressed up? Hellll naw, I still took that quiz, regardless of what I was wearing.@Cheekie,
THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!
Morehouse is tryna be the fashion police and folks are tryna dress it up with all types of fancy rationale like “Gold teef make you steal” and “Church socks get you jobs”. Negroes please.
If you know there’s a problem with ppl making snap judgments I say we confront the problem not cowtow to what we believe they’ll like.
@Me fail english?,
*choking on my lunch* due to “church socks get you jobs”.
LMFAO!!!
Of course I have to write a mini play on a hypothetical job interview:
Interviewer: Ah, I see you are a Princeton graduate, summa cum laude.”
Interviewee: Yes, sir.
Interviewer: And you have 2 years experience at an engineering internship. Fantastic!
Interviewee: Thanks you, Sir.
Interviewer: Excuse me, I dropped something. *bend down under table and glances at interviewee’s socks. Hanes Cotton. FAIL*
Interviewer: o____O
Interviewee:
Interviewer: Well, it was nice meeting you. We’ll follow up soon.
*they shake hands* *interviewee leaves*
Interviewer: *Puts resume in shredder*
Uh-huh. That’s real life.
*eyeroll*
@Cheekie,
LMAO!!!!
I just got a visual of this isht and I LOVED it!
@Cheekie,
“So do I. This “Bill Cosby” mentality of baggy jeans-wearing ninjas are thugs by default while tailored suit wearing ninjas are entrepreneurs by default is ridiculous.”
It is ridiculous. I also think it is a b***h move. It is easier to be critical of dress than the type of person you are creating.
@Humble_One,
“It is easier to be critical of dress than the type of person you are creating.”
Most definitely!
@Humble_One,
Seriously, I just caught the Holy Spirit with this statement.
I had to de-lurk just to e-high five you!
I hate coming here late, all the good thoughts are taken. Well, I don’t have much to add, but I’m with the policy. Yeah, for those that want to say it’s taking rights away, you can go to another college. I don’t have a problem the idea of a University stopping me from seeing draws, grills, scarves, t-skirts, or any other costume made famous by 106 & Park as a staple to your closet. I think sometimes we get so misguided about having anything taken away, that we lose track of what things are improvements. Then again, there are those that question if that’s an improvement.
@Saule Wright,
“there are those that question if that’s an improvement.”
Yep, And I think that’s where we all differ. If someone can show me a school with a dress code cranking out more talent that Harvard, Yale, hell, Morehouse pre-dress code I’d shut it up and keep it moving.
Hell even Andover and Exeter have casual dress and they teach actual children.
@Me fail english?,
but casual and sagging pants and grills are far different. I think that pre and post dress code for that school would be the best to see.
I guess, sometimes, you have to start somewhere. I liken it to when guys put on a suit, they tend to have better posture, put hands in pockets and fuss over how it fits. When they put on t-shirts and sagging jeans, they grab their crotch more, spend time shuffling their feet and pulling up pants, and even speaking different. Of course, these are generalities, but there is validity in them.
@Saule Wright,
I agree with your generalites. Men DO have more poise in suits (imo). I just think that if they dont wear suits until it’s time for an interview/wedding/funeral they won’t be less prepared or prof’l than the competition.
@Me fail english?,
AND true, they may not be less prepared, but they will be more familiar with how success feels and how to conduct themselves no?
Also, as someone else mentioned earlier, let’s not pretend that this is all about the students. Morehouse is a brand just like any institution. You want folks to spend money, give more exposure, etc, sometimes you have to play “dress up.” I wouldn’t expect to see any grills on Harvards campus. The brand not only dictates that it’s not acceptable to those of us outside of the campus, but for those attending, I doubt that there is a written law forbidding it. (guessing, I could be off on that.)
@Saule,
“with how success feels and how to conduct themselves no?”
Yeah, I think this is the crux of the disagreement. I honestly dont think suits prepare you for how it feels to be a success. We’ll agree to disagree.
As far as Harvard, I wish ppl could take a walk around the campus!! The grills would throw me off for sure. But a generally sloppy, lazy appearance (baggy pajamas, heads in desperate need of a new cut) among the undergrads as they hustle toward lecture hall would not surprise me in the least. In fact, it’s what I’d expect!
i agree. i don’t see the need to tell grown men how to dress. if they are really the type of “men” that you need to tell how to dress, then shouldn’t they get weeded out during the admission process?
on the flip side morehouse is private institution and they can have any set rules and regulations that they damn well please. if a student doesn’t agree with it then they don’t have to go there. they can transfer or not even apply. (no shots) i know i wouldn’t apply. i just don’t think the school fits my individual character.
Or is this just more Black pandering to an “image” as opposed to the reality?</b?
I am so tired of this. This is totally Black folks pandering to an "image". It always seems that Black folks are always more concerned with presenting an image instead of manifesting that image through actions. It's always "take your hat off", "wear a shirt with a collar", "pull your pants up", and "look professional". None of these things translate into some one with good character or integrity. I wish I had a dime for every clean well dressed negro that I've met that had the intellect of a bird and the integrity of a crackhead. I'm sure you all have heard of Kwame Kilpatrick. I'm tired of Black folks or Americans in general putting stressing the outward and neglecting honesty, loyalty, etc.
Or is this just more Black pandering to an “image” as opposed to the reality?
I am so tired of this. This is totally Black folks pandering to an “image”. It always seems that Black folks are always more concerned with presenting an image instead of manifesting that image through actions. It’s always “take your hat off”, “wear a shirt with a collar”, “pull your pants up”, and “look professional”. None of these things translate into some one with good character or integrity. I wish I had a dime for every clean well dressed negro that I’ve met that had the intellect of a bird and the integrity of a crackhead. I’m sure you all have heard of Kwame Kilpatrick. I’m tired of Black folks or Americans in general putting stressing the outward and neglecting honesty, loyalty, etc.
@Humble_One,
On this I agree. Shouldn’t they be more worried about actually graduating their athletes and undergrad students?
@Humble_One, ……LLS @ intelligence of a bird, and integrity of a crackhead..*wipes tears* LOL ……. birds remember when you feed em. the time of day, location everything LOL
@Humble_One,
COSIGN!!! On all of this….
black folks pandering to an image….it’s insulting and degrading
maybe I’ll change my opinion when the PWIs start banning flip flops from campus…but I don’t see that happening any time soon…
@klysha,
Yes ma’am. Lots of my colleagues comment on our (mostly white) entry-level job candidates showing up for interviews in inappropriate colors, skirt lengths, etc. They learn in time, what’s appropriate and what’s not. They’re young, not slow.
@Humble_One,
I need you to get out of my head. Like, seriously. I was just writing a post in my head about black folks’ obsession with image.
I’mo say it. Btwn the last post bout HBCUs and this dress code nonsense, they sound like nothing but breeding grounds for elitism and pompousness to me. I’ll pass. Wait… I DID pass.
My mama spent 18yrs raising me. Why would I want to PAY someone to keep treating me like a child after that? Eff that. I love my PWI. I-L-L…
@Thuggie Luvvie, “they sound like nothing but breeding grounds for elitism and pompousness to me”
not all of them, but I do feel you.
Ya that sounds stupid to me too.
I didnt go to an HBCU but i always assumed that everyone wore sweats PJs and other comfy stuff to class just like I did @ my state school my cuz @ her (real) IVY my BFF @ her small private school. Thank GOD I didnt go to an HBCU if this is the kind of crap they force you to worry about.
This is one of the reasons I declined (and my parents didn’t want me going) to HBCU’s. My sis went to Hampton for a stint. Although impressed by all the pretty women, non-co-ed dorms and curfews were some bullsh*t! I had more freedom as a 16 year old then those college students did! But addressing the dress code, it sounds like a bunch of coddling and restricting done by a prudish parent. You’re in college, and although you may be part of an esteemed HBCU, you never hear Harvard or Yale students being clamped down on without a fight.
Sorry to hear they went that route, but it affirms my belief that HBCUs are extended High Schools in the most extreme of terms.
@CPT Callamity,
“You’re in college, and although you may be part of an esteemed HBCU, you never hear Harvard or Yale students being clamped down on without a fight. ”
True. I forgot what happened last year at NYU but those kids took over the whole student cafe or smthg. Haha. It bother me that Morehouse is intent on manufacturing sheep
To the folks who are opposed to this dress code, at what point can the college decide what is and isn’t appropriate. Should a student be allowed to show up to Advanced Calculus without a shirt on? What if he wants to show up in his draws? What if he wants to wear a shirt with “B*TCH*S AIN’T CH*T” on it? Can’t all of these examples be construed as forms of self expression? When do we get to say enough is enough?
@Ki,
I’ve never seen a kid with no shirt on in class. But I have seen profanity, pornographic images, etc. in class (maybe we had rules against this, but they surely weren’t enforced). I’m honestly a pragmatist. And unless a kid shows up naked, I dont see the utility of a school-wide dress code.
The truth is that appropriate attire is relative. Just because you don’t like someone wearing a shirt with a naked woman, or curse words on it, that doesn’t mean it’s inappropriate to that person. Since it’s relative, don’t criticize the institution for setting it’s own standards.
Besides, the dress code doesn’t prevent students from wearing politically or religiously inspired clothing. Just clothing that makes its students look like idiots, or worse.
Y’all know my opinion on this if you read the blog yesterday. In a perfect world, screw the dress code. But in a world in which American black men have been stereotyped either as violent, thuggish predators or as emasculated neutered punks for most of American history, I think for a private college to compel its students to dress in a manner that doesn’t further these stereotypes is fine. Everyone loves making the comparisons to Yale and Harvard, which are completely bogus. They have a completely different tradition and their white and Asian students aren’t encouraged from birth by the media and their surroundings to portray themselves as caricatures. They also get away with things that black males can’t. A white man with a grill is being ironic, if he’s black, hide your children. Why do you think MLK insisted protestors wear suits and ties? In alabama in the summer? Yeah, that image that you’re so quick to minimize is important.
@Brandon St. Randy,
You know that blacks and Latinos go to Harvard and Yale too, right? And that some of them are from the ghetto? And that they also go on to graduate and get jobs?
@Me fail english?, I took a couple classes at Harvard. I’m aware. I’m also aware that they’re a tiny minority and that they’re in an overall campus culture that doesn’t have the ties or physical proximity to ghetto culture that a school in Southwest Atlanta does. You got any more patronizing ass statements? I got all day.
@Brandon St. Randy,
No, the patronizing ass statements seem to be your specialty so I’ll leave them to the expert.
Further, there are at least two Ivies (Penn and Yale) and several other top tier schools that arent far from the hood at all. Their students do just as well. What’s more is that proximity to the ghetto has shet to do with shinola since in a college atmosphere we are ALL mostly surrounded by upwardly mobile citizens. So like what is your point exactly?
@Me fail english?, the point being, and you can ignore this trend if you like, is that black men have been inundated since childhood that they should behave and dress in counterproductive ways while whites and asians aren’t. So at a school like MC, which I attended, there’s still social pressure esp. in the first 2 years to maintain that aura of being hard or that sense of “street genuineness” which you see in some of the crime committed by MC students over the past 4 or 5 years. There’s also a guilt factor that’s instilled on upwardly mobile blacks that they’re not “of the hood” and this is played out a lot in the interactions between AUC students and the surrounding communities. You also see it in the underperformance of even higher income high school kids in PG county and that Cleveland Suburb I forget the name of. This creates a drag on the “upwardly mobile” culture you’re talking about. Thus, apples to apples comparisons to say an MC and your “real ivy” aren’t that valid. Some of the strongest supporters of the dress code I’ve heard from are current administrators in the AUC who DO see a problem with a small minority of the student population dressing and behaving inappropriately. If this weren’t an issue, no one would be instituting rules.
I see your point. But I think you’re overstating the pull of the mainstream culture at PWI’s. Having gone to one all 4 years of undergrad I can tell you that many black students do NOT readily imbibe the culture. Some of us assimilate into gen pop well, others of us clique off and then same hiphop/tough guy values are seen in circles there. And further, a good portion of us initially made more friends with the urban locals than with our extra-racial fellow students which means we were very much still immersed in the values of a ghetto counter-culture and not those of the ivory tower. No it’s not a one-to-one comparison but it’s not as wildy off-base as you’re characterizing it.
lol@ quotes on real Ivy. No quotes necessary. You mad, huh?
@Brandon St. Randy,
“But in a world in which American black men have been stereotyped either as violent, thuggish predators or as emasculated neutered punks for most of American history, I think for a private college to compel its students to dress in a manner that doesn’t further these stereotypes is fine. ”
I think what would be a better route is simply dispelling them since they’re ridiculous stereotypes. Ones that shouldn’t be accepted as truth. Or conformed to.
@Cheekie,
Yeah. I dont know why it’s so much for Morehouse to make these kids aware of the added pressures they face, mentor them and then leave it up to them as to how they plan to deal with the stereotypes. It takes all kinds to make a world so the one-size-fits-all thing not only seems unambitious and unimaginative but kind’ve counter-productive. At my PWI we had black faculty that pulled our coat to stuff like this (How “they” will look at you. What you can do to conform, etc.). Why is it that much harder to do at Morehouse?
@Cheekie, It’s easy to say that in theory, but the reality is if you live in a major city, you’re force-fed images of black and particularly black male inferiority all the time. To some degree, given what’s out there, you’re almost expecting people to suspend disbelief in order to believe that there’s not a cultural problem in the black community. This isn’t to say that white folks don’t have their share of dysfunction, but it’s focused on much less than w/minorities and they get a much more leniency, both in crime statistics (since they’re never arrested, convicted, or jailed for the same crimes we are) and in the media, where they have doctors, lawyers, pundits, and parents on TV, and we have Gucci Mane. And no, I don’t have the solution to that problem, but I think it’s foolish to think that that unfrtunate prejudice isn’t out there.
@Brandon St. Randy,
“It’s easy to say that in theory, but the reality is if you live in a major city, you’re force-fed images of black and particularly black male inferiority all the time.”
Yeah, I know it’s difficult, but aren’t a lot of things worthwhile? Legendary icons that were honor today chose not to. Was it easy for them? No…but the easiness shouldn’t make it ok. Saying, “D’oh well, since THEY say it, we should accept it”. Nope, not cool. Because what they say is ok has already delved into dangerous territory…namely “black hair” and its ostracization in corporate America.
“And no, I don’t have the solution to that problem, but I think it’s foolish to think that that unfrtunate prejudice isn’t out there.”
I don’t think anyone was claiming it wasn’t. I think those against the dress code were actually directly pointing it out and deeming it unaccepted foolishness.
Baggy pants = thug, by default? Effing hogwash. And the media can stream it through Dick Cheney’s arse for all I care…doesn’t make it any more true.
@Brandon St. Randy,
Nobody on either side of the argument if denying the existence of prejudice or negative imagery. What we’re saying is that throughout our history as black people we have been unfairly judged, often with life-altering results. We all want to minimize that problem for future generations. Some of us feel we should “suck it up and conform so that they can’t use [insert black stereotype here] against us”. Others of us are saying “eff that, let’s nip this in the bud and challenge this problem in any area of our lives we may see it.” Different approaches, no right or wrong (imo, at least).
What I think blows is that Morehouse is tryna indoctrinate masses of black men to do it one way, rather than allow them to find their own ways. It’s not just about Martin, Frederick and Booker. Sometimes you need a Malcolm, Marcus or even Toussaint in the mix. That’s the beauty of the fertile ground that is college. You’re incubating future leaders. Let these men blaze their own paths.
also, for those saying that (paraphrasing) “morehouse has bigger fish to fry”, who says that you can’t multitask?
what by-law states that “if you institute a dress code, this means that you can’t address budgets or graduation rates or anything else that matters because you’re obviously spending every last resource towards making sure kids take their hats off in class”?
lol, i mean, if you go to the hospital with a broken leg and a small cut on your arm thats bleeding, i’m pretty sure they’ll tend to the superfical cut first before they send you to surgery.
@The Champ,
My point is they do not seem to be multi-tasking (at least not well) when the same major problems (enrollment, endowment, and now I guess safety) are not showing improvement but these lifestyle policies keep popping up.
@The Champ,
“who says that you can’t multitask?”
I’m all for multi-tasking (in this piece)…but the question is: Are they?
@Cheekie,
and the answer is: no
That’s fair. you know your school’s culture and dynamics, I know mine.
“lol@ quotes on real Ivy. No quotes necessary. You mad, huh?”
There’s that patronizing again. Not really. I think my undergrad compared extremely well to most Ivy’s and was a better fit than all of them would have been. I respect ivy league institutions a lot and don’t care to get into pissing contests about whose alma mater was superior. Folks made the choices they made. If I need to feel real douchebaggy and pump my chest out, I’ll just name drop my graduate Alma Mater.
@Brandon St. Randy,
It was no pissing contest the first time I used the phrase (I explained why I said it upthread) and there’s no pissing contest now. I genuinely dont know why it’s (real Ivy) in quotes. But ftr, I dont namedrop ANY specifics about what neighborhood I’m from, live in, school attended or anything else in the interest of keeping my anonymity on a site where I tell all my personal business. I have nothing but respect for Morehouse and I think it’s worthy of a namedrop in its own right, grad alma mater aside.
*Walks out of the recovery room, bandaged head, whipping the wheel chair due to causes of a VSB a$$whooping….then clears throat*
I understand the business point of view. But its also an urgency to keep HBCU students safe from those of the neighboring area. Its a misunderstanding between the two groups one aspiring and one expiring or at least stuck.
Uniforms keep mofos from getting shot or at least they get the second look. U cnt dress lika gangsta and not expect the gangstas to treat u as such. Hence getting shot, robbed, or etc in their neighborhood.
U from Vermont and u were the only gangsta looking kid there, now u and the DMV, like Mobb Deep said “I might mistake that for a gang sign Ninja.”
A black man in a suit in the black community is damn nar equivalent to the pristine image of new born baby. Ninjas dnt want that blood on their hands. Cause mama taught em better than that.
@The Hallway,
*Walks out of the recovery room, bandaged head, whipping the wheel chair due to causes of a VSB a$$whooping….then clears throat*
Aw… *sniff*
@Cheekie,
Yeah thats the same thing my laptop said when I kissed it goodnite.
I am usually anti-rules in general BUT if an institution decides to instill their own rules, I have the right to stop frequenting said institution or the duty to follow the rules at said institution. It really is that simple.
In junior-high/high-school (7-year system), I attended a very strict catholic school where the dress code was longer than the entire book of Genesis. We only the right to wear certain colors of shoes, and hair pieces, and sweaters over our very basic uniform. Certain hairstyles were prohibited. Every monday morning, we had an inspection done by grades. We were not to have any makeup and nail polish on. If you were found with either, you were sent home or put on probation. They even went as far as ask us to cut our hair during our 4 years of (the equivalent of) Junior-High. Needless to say, I HATED those rules… until I got out of it and was able to look at the rules with a more mature eye… and can see their overall impact in my approach to life…
All of that to repeat what many VSBers have said. It’s Morehouse’s prerogative to implement whichever rules, requirements, prerequisites they want. Kids, students still have plenty of opportunity to express their individuality throughout their life and with outlets different than clothing. If those particular rules are so detrimental to a kid’s potential blossoming and development, there is always other options. Always.
Enforcing a dress code at Morehouse reinforces the idea that colleges are just in place to produce more corporate slaves. Which they are. And of course corporate slaves are necessary to keep society functioning properly. So for that reason I understand why they’re doing it. But in principle this is just insulting and I totally disagree with it.
I personally find it offensive that black men are being told that a style of dress that expresses their culture (even if it is hip hop culture) is inappropriate for a learning environment just so they can portray a certain image to those who may be watching….and of course the people they’re concerned about watching are either white people or black people brainwashed into thinking they need to portray a certain image to fit in with white people.
I hate skinny jeans on men as much as the next person…but I’ll defend the kiddies right to wear those ugly things to the end. Styles change, and clothes are just a means to cover our bodies and not offend the prudish among us. What gives any one person the right to decide what appropriate dress is for other people? People are trained to focus so much on superficial things like outward appearance in our society. If we spent some energy thinking about solving real problems we might make some real progress.
As for me, I don’t technically work in “corporate” America but I work for the government thus I voluntarily conform to an unwritten dress code every day. I do it because I’m more comfortable that way around these people and also because I like to see the paychecks coming every two weeks. But I certainly don’t think wearing business casual makes me any more productive than i’d be if I came in here rocking sweatpants. It quite possibly makes me less productive.
@klysha,
Amen. Maybe cause I was raised by parents who grew up during the 60s and 70s but the most exciting thing about young people is the promise of change that they hold. I strongly believe in their power to change social mores and turn these antiquated ideas about fashion on their heads. I hate when people try to stamp the dreams out of the youth as if they wrote the book on what will and won’t work.
My dad always tells a story about his Dad and Granddad asking him what he wanted to be when he grew up. I forgot what he told them (smthg lofty). But they essentially told him “you black asz aint gon be shet but an X-ray tech…IF u lucky”. It’s funny in hindsight (ok, not really) but if everybody stuck by what jaded, short-sighted adults thought would work, we’d be nowhere. At some point we’ve gotta challenge status quo and say “No more bowed heads. We aint having this shet!” Why doesn’t the epicenter of black male mobility support this?
@Me fail english?,
“but the most exciting thing about young people is the promise of change that they hold. I strongly believe in their power to change social mores and turn these antiquated ideas about fashion on their heads. I hate when people try to stamp the dreams out of the youth as if they wrote the book on what will and won’t work.”
YES!!! If there’s anything that you would think society would have learned by now it’s that each generation is going to try to challenge the ideas of the previous generation. This of course is most visible in their fashion choices. And this rebellion is NECESSARY for progress.
I don’t see why not. Sports teams typically enforce some attire for their students, being part of a club may require that you dress a certain way to reflect your membership. Now, being a part of the Morehouse student body requires that you dress a certain way to reflect that membership.
PhD programs typically require that you maintain a 3.2 gpa or you’re kicked out after a semester or so on academic probation. Nobody goes around arguing that it’s unfair to have to maintain an academic standard to stay in school, why is a dress standard different?
Why should 18yos be free to explore their fashion identity but not free to explore their slacker identity?
For every freedom, there is a constraint – everyone cannot be truly free, because exhaustive expression and exploration of one freedom invariably must infringe on exhaustive expression and exploration of someone else’s.
Since it is well established that school uniform policies can be easily written so that they don’t give advantage to anyone based on socioeconomic factors, I don’t see anything wrong with Morehouse having one.
I’m late. Shoot me. Wait, you’re black you just might. I retract that @Panama…..
Anyway… For 1. They are private. They can do as the please.
For 2. The imagery of black men is slowly but surely declining in this age of ‘we need good upstandign black men’.
(I HATE when your people do that ‘For 1. *pop* For 2. *pop*… hehehehe)
Back to the topic…..Since when is it ok for the image young black men see of themselves to be in Louboutins and wigs?! It’s awful enough we lack rolemodels for our boys that look like them. Now we are going to endorse the coonery that parades around media. Ummmmmm, yeah no.
Morehouse did the right thing. Men need to be men in an upstanding, academic and pretegious setting. I don’t care what your sexual orientation is- that’s besides the point. Men- all men- need to learn what it means to be a man. Yes, this means pulling your pants up. Wearing a shirt with buttons tucked in. Tying a tie. AND ABSOLUTELY NO HEELS OR DRESSES! PERIOD!
Save the black man, please!
@Daydreamer, While I can say that I have no desire to see black men rocking heels and dresses…I still think that mandading taste is not an effective route to “save the black man.” Save them from what…their own identity….save them by dressing them up in what white American corporate culture has deemed acceptable???? Totally misguided in my opinion…. and even a tad demeaning in my opinion
@klysha,
You’re completely off base. If you read the actual dress code, you’ll see that it doesn’t limit political or religious expression through clothing. Students can still wear african garb. They can still wear t-shirts that make political statements. Can they wear t-shirts with curse words or naked women on them? No. But just because they said young men must take their hats off inside, or can’t wear high heels, that doesn’t mean the school is forcing everyone to wear a two button Brooks Brothers suit. Please take time to actually read the dress code, and you’ll see that it only applies to two extreme forms of dress.
@Ki, Thanks! I hate cosigning but I have to with you in this case…..
@kylsha,
Ummm no one is asking these boys to hide from themselves. Be gay. Be a fairy. Hell who cares?! But on Moreshouse’s time and academic setting they will grow to be MEN.
They are asking them to look like upstanding citizens and leave the bafoonery on their own time. Young black men need discipline probably more than another other race and gender. Setting a few rules won’t hurt them. In fact, this may even allow them to rethink their free ‘fashion sense’. Wearing degrading shirts, obnoxious grills, heels and wigs(as a man) will NOT get you a job in America. Morshouse is an educational instutition whose job is to get them ready for the world. Boys, Welcome to it!
@Daydreamer, I understand that the dress code isn’t all that restrictive. It probably won’t even effect that many people. It’s just the principle of mandating taste that I don’t like.
And precisely what does an “upstanding citizen look like”? Or rather what does an upstanding citizen NOT look like?? And why are black people okay with playing into that stereotype???
I also think black people are notorious for focusing too much energy on appearances rather than actual substance. That’s the issue I take with this policy….
Teach the kids early….you got to make the white man comfortable if you want to get ahead in this country….Why not teach the kids about forging their own paths instead of teaching them to follow the paths set out by the people who don’t even really want us there anyway.
But as a private institution of course Morehouse has every right to enforce any policy they want to. I’ve been out of college for a minute but I still follow a dress code of sorts at my job….thus is life…so maybe that’s a lesson the kids need to learn. We don’t live in a utopia where you aren’t judged by your outward appearances … at least not yet…maybe never.
5 years ago, I would’ve been totally against this dress code . . just like I was against the dress code for the NBA.
But you know what? The NBA was DEAD ON, and so is this.
With the NBA, they has a serious image problem that was somewhat damaging the perception of the players in the league.
Anybody remember how NBA players dressed from say 1998 – 2005? Throwback jerseys . . fitted hats . . sagging pants . . sunglasses all the time . . expensive platinum chains . . du-rags . . tattoos everywhere. And some of the players incorporated some of these elements in their look in whatever setting they were in.
At a press conference after the game . . during live TV interviews . . while injured and sitting on the bench . . while walking into the arena ( with TV cameras on the ). It was a professional league, with a very non-professional look.
This was a far cry from how their predecessors of the 80s dressed. Cats like Jordan, Magic, and Dominique Wilkins seemed to always look their best during NBA related business. But not the players of the 90s and 2000s. At that time, they could’ve cared less. For them, it was all about wearing what was comfortable to them to wear. Even if the white people ( and some Blacks) were saying that they looked like “thugs”, they could’ve cared less.
And like what some of you are doing here, I argued that they had the freedon to express themselves in their dress, however they wanted to.
Dennis Rodman started the trend. Allen Iverson took it to another level, and made street attire popular. And by the time Carmelo Anthony got into the league, it seemed as if 1/2 of the league could care less about looking professional, and more concerned about keeping up with how Nelly, 50 Cent, and Lil Jon were dressing.
So after the Pistons-Pacers brawl, the Kobe rape trial, and the 2004 Olympics debacle, the NBA Commissioner said ENOUGH . . WE GOTS TO GET SOME OF YOU CATS IN CHECK.
He implements the NBA Dress Code, which basically states that you must look business casual if you are doing ANYTHING NBA related. David Stern, the commish, was cool and calm, while black folks, players, and some in the media were going crazy about him “targeting” black players with their dress. And I was one of them.
But I was wrong.
4 years later, the dress code is one of the BEST THINGS THAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE NBA IN A WHILE. The players who were against it, quickly found themselves having no problrm being complient with the dress code. And while Allen Iverson still expressed his displeasure for it, even he complied.
Then an interesting thing happened. THE PLAYERS STATED TRYING TO OUTDRESS EACH OTHER. Now, all of a sudden, you’re seeing Carmelo in Armani suits, Dwyane Wade incorporating the Miami style of upscale dress, and Shaq dressing like “Mr. Big” ( Ron Isley ). The NBA became like a BET Rip the Runway fashion show. In 2009, it’s now cool as hell to look your best, especially if you’re hurt on the bench.
So how does all of this relate to the Morehouse dress code?
Simple.
If they have a faction of students who enjoy the street gang/gangsta look, or the flamboyantly feminine gay look . . and if the President feels that those factions are damaging the integrity and prestige of the College . . the he simply had to do what he had to do, to bring the overall look of the students to a higher level.
So the Prez is simply telling those young men that since some of them refused to raise their standard of dress, I’m gonna force you to do it. If you don’t like it, GET TO STEPPIN!!!
I’m not a Morehouse grad, but I applaud what the President of the college is doing. He’s forcing some of those young men to step their game up, even if they have to get out of their comfort zone. He’s trying to bring back high prestige to the college. Good luck man.
And as I really look at the dress code, the vast majority of the students should be able to easily comply with this. The cross-dressing students will have a problem though, because the DC pretty much bans cross-dressing on campus at ANY time.
As for the rest of the students, even the non cross-dressing homosexual ones, the President simply doesn’t want these cats looking like Young Jeezy or Rupaul in class, or at any Morehouse event.
- In class, the students can still wear t-shirts, warm-up suits, shorts, sneakers, timbs, jeans, hoodies, etc to class . . . just leave all of that accessory ish in the dorm room, and take the hat or hoddie off when you’re in class.
- Outside, I don’t see anything prohibiting students wearing sunglasses and hats . . . just take them off when you’re entering a building.
- For you gay brothas, I guess you can still do what gay brothas do . . just dress like a brotha when you’re doing it . . and not like some sista at Lenox Mall, looking for a modeling job.
Other than that, I don’t see any reason why these cats won’t be able to quickly adhere to the DC. The Greeks on campus should lead the way, from a business casual style standpoint, adding whatever “swag” to their attire that they want.
But from what I can see, if the football team wants to walk around campus and go to class in their Morehouse warm-up suit, they’d be DC compliant
HIcotton here. Lately, Morehouse men keep shooting each other in clubs, fighting with townies, and ending up on the news. The admin is realizing that droves of bright young black men (who might otherwise consider Morehouse) will opt to attend other schools if the Morehouse brand isn’t restored to it’s former glory. This dress code is all about marketing. People behave better and take themselves more seriously when they are not wearing play clothes / costumes.
I agree with Champ’s rationale entirely.
Morehouse admits many black men from underprivileged backgrounds and single parent homes — including youngsters that wouldn’t qualify to enter PWIs. (God bless Morehouse for helping brothers out.) Some of these poor fatherless bastards don’t know about collegiate attire.
alternative solution #1: the admissions department JUST STOPS ADMITTING RIFF-RAFF
alternative solution #2: this paternalistic dress code
Either way, the Morehouse image improves, negative publicity is reduced, and marketing is more effective.
CNN on the Morehouse dress code
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/17/college.dress.code/index.html
Good for them! I have become so disillusioned with the many comments about Morehouse being a center for gay men. Cool, be gay..but be a man..keep your sexual preferences a secret from me..don’t destroy my illusions. I have always thought of Morehouse as the place where the cream of the crop of black men went to become college educated…pjs, high heels, women’s attire? Come on!
http://rodonline.typepad.com/rodonli…arty_101_.html
The (Very Very Gay) Men of Morehouse
“There’s a very gay underculture at Morehouse.” Karsh reminisces about his collegiate years at the nation’s only all-male, historically black college, taking aim at the school’s reputation as bastion of masculinity and homophobia. “We were everywhere. The Glee Club was heavily gay, faculty, staff, students. … You basically had to walk around with hands over your eyes not to notice the gays on campus. But many straight students and faculty refuse to aknowledge the gays.”
Karsh’s report is interesting because the gay element at Morehouse has always been minimized. For generations, the school has promoted itself as a training ground for future, black, straight male leaders. That veneer was somewhat chipped away in November 2003 when junior Gregory Love was viciously attacked by sophmore Aaron Price. The junior was beaten with a bat because Price thought Love made a pass at him. Morehouse’s response to the incident was slow and possibly inadequate. Karsh says the undercurrent of homophobia at Morehouse might be in retaliation against some of the more obvious gay students—he recalls “numerous dorm room orgies” that could be seen or heard from hallways. Now that’s a new definition of student bodies.
The policy is long overdue and oh so very welcomed! Those who have a problem with it, as it is stated by this PRIVATE institution can pack their bags and leave. I am sure there is a college ready and willing to take them and their desire to make their own rules. When they become successful and can found their own college, then they and their administration can open the flood gates to self expression at any cost. At Morehouse, the message is loud and clear and the traditions and legacy are more important than their desires to “DO YOU”. Kudos to the Morehouse administration for FINALLY laying down the law!
so the gist of this move is so these kids know what is and is not appropriate attire, I presume.
So rather than a top-down approach (that will draw nothing but backlash) try a skills course to introduce these kids to what they need to wear and when.
This feels an awful lot like code switching, and these young’ins are not being taught to code switch. You rock casual/hip hop/ etc attire on your time. You rock the conservative attire on your paycheck plantation’s time.
I like to look at effects. I can see students who are on the fence about Morehouse going elsewhere. College is the wrong place to be exclusionary. What do I know I attended a PWI for undergrad and grad school.
i would like to address all those opposing of our, morehouse college, new policy because it is “discriminatory against gays and transgendered students” but the reality is these students who identify with these positions, addressing the students that solely identify as homosexual or “feminine” as stated above, these students are all male and identify as such, there is no discrimination against these students because they are gay so lets stop saying that because it does become a greater issue from that false perspective; your clothing does not determine nor define your orientation, if you are gay are you gay because you put on womens clothing? thats a false identity if that is the case, there is no perscriptive diagnosis provided to the college stating these students will not be able to produce or become a great leader, as morehouse is known to produce, on the basis they are uncomfortable in clothing for males.also knowing the history of the college and its mission is important, a lot of these brothers come to morehouse for ATLANTA and not the rich tradition and nurturing provided at morehouse so it becomes blurry when they become engulfed in the sub-cultures of the city and transcend them into the culture of the campus. transgender students alike are responsible for knowing the institution they have chosen, there is no animosity towards any or none of my brothers alike; i have love for everyone, and in that i feel it is more important to figure out honestly if morehouse is the best choice, being an all male historic institution, rich and set in its own culture and development and leadership building skills for men, if identifying as transgender prohibits any of those, especially when it deals with changing the school for case by case accommodations; we have to really think rationally before we go head into situations, i know morehouse, i am morehouse, sexual orientation is not a determinant of that, what i produce is the etermining factor of that.
@Ms. Smart: While I was telling my coworkers about this Derek guy on RHATL (whom I believe is one of the reasons for this code), I read your comment about him.
Just a general comment about this issue. It’s been almost 10 years since I graduated from high school and my dream was to go to Spelman College. I remember thinking how great it would be to not only go to a school that bred successful, intelligent, strong black women, but also to share that environment with a school who did the same for black men. Morehouse was that school. The reputation that Morehouse had, even back then, was that it created Black Male Leaders, which is something that our communities desperately need. I REFUSE to believe that even though times have changed, the core values of Morehouse have changed along with them. Out of Morehouse came the Barack Obamas, the Martin Luthers, the Malcolm Xs (not saying they went there); serious black men with a vision of bettering themselves and the communities around them. How serious would we take those men if they stood before us in Jimmy Choos, 7 skinny jeans, a gucci bag and candy apple red lipstick? Not serious at all. Men should dress with some finesse, a sense of pride and self respect. I disagree that this dress code is limiting self expression but rather expanding the possibilities that these men have later in life. There have yet to be a CEO of any successful company (black or white) that have dressed in women’s clothing. Men don’t dress like men anymore, with care in their appearance or even with how they are viewed. I think that it needs to be brought back to that. I applaud Morehouse for taking that stand.
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