The homey Dom sent this email to the world famous VSB e-mail box. It’s a regular box-o-fun at VSB central.
This particular article takes a look a the fine art of hooking up. Now, if you’re like me (which means Black and went to an HBCU and who’s contact with white people is largely confined to his 9-5, yearly family functions, and The Hills), you may have absolutely no idea what “hooking up” actually means. I’ve been asking this question for years but an answer has eluded me. Hooking up has become one of those things that nobody could define but everybody knew it when they saw it.
Kind of like pr0n.
Well this fine fellow at the NYTimes has come-up with a definition:
(For those over 30 years old (admin. note: or under 30 and Black or just Black): hooking up is a casual sexual encounter with no expectation of future emotional commitment. Think of it as a one-night stand with someone you know.)
Well, I’ll be. Al B. Sure!
This makes sense to me. Now that this is out of the way, this chap examines the idea that perhaps dating is passe and the hook-up is in full effect. Or at least this is the case for the young crowd. Kids are foregoing relationships for the hookup:
According to a report released this spring by Child Trends, a Washington research group, there are now more high school seniors saying that they never date than seniors who say that they date frequently. Apparently, it’s all about the hookup.
I should point out that just because more young people seem to be hooking up instead of dating doesn’t mean that they’re having more sex (they’ve been having less, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) or having sex with strangers (they’re more likely to hook up with a friend, according to a 2006 paper in the Journal of Adolescent Research).
Interesting, isn’t it? Responsible irresponsiblity. But so what, kids are hooking up; why does this matter? Well it matters because kids hooking up become grown-ups with no idea how to date or function in a healthy relationship. Basically, they’ve never taken the time to learn how to develop relationships.
To wit:
The cons center on the issues of gender inequity. Girls get tired of hooking up because they want it to lead to a relationship (the guys don’t), and, as they get older, they start to realize that it’s not a good way to find a spouse. Also, there’s an increased likelihood of sexual assaults because hooking up is often fueled by alcohol.
Now really, none of this has anything to do with the price of pantyhose in Uruguay, but this does get to a larger question: are we, the current crop of 20- and 30- somethings well equipped for relationships? And what about those coming after us? Our parents generation was the last one where folks stayed married despite the drama within the marraige – assuming your daddy was even around in the first place. At this point, there’s no taboo on divorce and sexual freedom and indulgence has reached an apex, or at least it would have if the economy wasn’t tanking and buying hookers wasn’t such a strain on one’s finances.
Eh, you win some you lose some.
My point is that from an early age, we tend to learn a lot about relationships from our parents, but if parents are quick to dismiss relationships or not work on themselves in order to make things work, what model do we really have to follow? Could that be why kids are hooking up moreso than dating now? They just don’t know how? And if so, how does that bode for the future of relationships?
Or am I making a mountain out of a molehill like the dude in the article? I actually think the article really had no point and dude just saw some statistic and wanted to write about it but had no angle so he did his best to turn a non-starter into something. Hell, it’s kids.
Or is it?
What say you, VSBers, are so many relationships going the way of the dodo bird because we just don’t know how to be in a relationship anymore?
Deep.
-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka TANGLE JIG P
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{ 301 comments… read them below or add one }
it’s me,it’s me – I’M FIRST!!!! HA HA HA HAHA… now let me go read.
@superwoman,
wow… excited much?
@blackberry molasses, heh heh, i’m a bit embarrassed now, but at the time was quite giddy!! the power of vsb.com!!
@superwoman,
i know. its like that crack, right?
i suppose we should comment on the post now?
@superwoman, i tend to view it more like the glow that Bruce LeRoy was trying to attain all throughout The Last Dragon.
yep, that’s the power of VSB…it’s the glow.
@Panama Jackson, wow what a great analogy. Remind me to filch that one when describing my particular swagger to the opposite sex. (No ROMO)
I agree.. working with kids its like the age that people began having s.e.x is younger and younger which means many girls and boys will never even get to experience the most basic level of dating…things like being dropped off at the mall to go to a movie with a boy, and getting picked up, They dont get go to the fair with matching short sets and spray painted tshirts and hats that say 1 tony+1 Stacey= 2 gether 4 ever… it also ruins women because if women dont develop their own personality and interests before s.e.x comes in and blows their mind the are turned into hobbyless ho.es who can only relate to men through s.e.x and then wonder why that isnt enough to keep them and men who have never had to do anything other than point grunt and smile to get a woman dont know what the f!ck to do…..
@Shay-d-lady, LOL @ “hobbyless ho.es”
Very well said
@Tallgent, LOL I cant take credit for it..one of the VSBer’s did a whole post on it…..
@Shay-d-lady, I dont care what age anyone grew up in, no one and absolutely not a single soul should ever want to <CITE.”go to the fair with matching short sets and spray painted tshirts and hats that say 1 tony+1 Stacey= 2 gether 4 ever”
@I take my check in all Peysos please!, though i can proudly say that i never (intentionally) went anywhere with matching anything on, i can’t fault uber-cheeseboxes that are 14 who are so enamored with one another that they can’t help but wear clothing that proves their love for one another.
though, that shirt is major wackness after you break up in 3 weeks.
@Shay-d-lady, “short sets and spray painted tshirts and hats that say 1 tony+1 Stacey= 2 gether 4 ever”
You are always out of order Shay lmao. The mental image was almost too much for me to bare.
Part of me thinks that dude needs to get something more interesting to talk about… but he may be onto something. A lot of these kids are growing up in the age of divorce, and thus the entering and exiting of relationships is no big deal. Therefore the attitude is, let us dispense with the formalities of putting effort into getting to know/woo someone and get to the boot knockin.
The problem with this is 1) we have a generation of socially and emotionally stunted people who have dysfunctional relationships and 2) sex is reduced from an expression of passion to a “get my rocks off and keep it movin” type thing.
I went to H.S. with people whose parents married and divorced at the same rate they bought new cars. I just went to my 10 year reunion (gawd… 10 years!) and a lot of these people have been married and divorced already, and they’re not even 30.
Then again, I might be making a big deal out of nothing. They grown (except for the kiddies) and can enter any kind of relationships they want. No Diva Dust ™ off my back. And it makes for my 2520 friends having some of the best hook up stories at work….
@blackberry molasses,
A lot of these kids are growing up in the age of divorce, and thus the entering and exiting of relationships is no big deal.
i think its more so that our society seems to be more bent on instant gratification in every aspect, and, because of that, its no mystery why relationships have suffered as well
This subject is relevant to my interests.
I have a daughter that is entering the time of her life where she will be exploring and learning to navigate relationships with the boys her age. What I’m teaching her is the importance of never forgetting herself when dealing with these lil’ guys. I tell her that SHE sets the tone. They will and must follow her lead because otherwise, they will have her acting a complete fool.
I have actually heard her on the phone w/the youngin’s , totally bungling the conversation and I’ve snatched the phone from her, saying “Let Mommy show you how to handle these bamas”! I told her not to let any guy question her extensively on her comings and goings, her entertainment choices, how she spends her money or who she chooses to spend time with. And definitely not allow any one dude to monopolize her time. I’m teaching her to be selfish w/her body, mind and soul (yes, she has gotten the “detriment to your soul” speech already) because I believe that will keep her safe.
@PBG,
mad “Good Mommy Points” awarded to the PBG.
@blackberry molasses,
Thank you kindly, BBMo! *pops effective parenting collar*
While my mother gave us “The Talk”, I think her approach was wrong. All she told us were the mechanics of biology and “don’t do it”. She never taught us about how to deal with the very real situations we eventually encountered and she didn’t stress the importance of US (my sister and I) as PEOPLE and how valuable we should treat ourselves. I didn’t want to just say “don’t do it” to Tina. I wanted to give her a reason for internal motivation toward the right thing.
I figured that I may mess around and create a self-centered little diva who can’t get dirty or be bothered w/other folks’ mess (to a fault) but I’d rather have that than grandbabies @ 37.
@PBG,
Do you tell Ike the same stuff?
@WuDaMan,
Well, he just turned 10 last month, so right now we are still concentrating on personal hygiene a lot. A LOT! LOL!
But I do tell him about treating others with respect and acknowledging the feelings and humanity of others. I’ve been teaching him since he was about 6 about holding the doors open for girls and women and giving up his seat on the train or bus for a girl or woman. I think that’s a great beginning to being honorable in relationships.
@PBG,
Well right on w/ the right guard, safe guard soap or Irish Spring, ooh put on music when he brushes his breath to make sure he brushes @ least 2 minutes. Have him brush for a song’s length, and flossing helps you live longer, behind your ears can stink. And let him work after school in the prayer cubical as an urshur. My Ma would always say that it helps w/ friend having (the hygene stuff).
Great job Parental Big Guns gold star (like something special that three wise men would follow). Just watch out if some of the vsb start teaching him about ssa peaking and hiding wood n tight hugs w/ the chest boob feel. And the ever important small of the back guide.
@WuDaMan,
You keep forgetting what it is I do for a living! LOL!
When I taught in Headstart, I had my little 3′s, 4′s and 5′s hum the A-B-C song twice during toothbrushing so they’d brush long enough for it to be effective. Of course I took that valuable tool home to my own crumb-snatchers! LOL!!
All that sex stuff from the male P.O.V., I’m more than happy to let my Dad or brother handle with Ikey. He needs to hear it from a man anyway. There’s only so far a mother can take her son before he needs to be handed off to a responsible man for the rest of what he needs to learn. *sigh* My baby is just about there now.
*looks wistfully off of the porch @ Ike n’ Tina playing in the yard, moving closer to the gate*
@Princess Best Genes,
Right on!) Smile n drink in the good times.
I was just saying watch out cuz some of the vsb are unorthadox w/ it (deviant knows a thing or two about boob grabbin).
@PBG,
I feel ya on the hygiene issue. My son is 13 and I swear we are still working on it. This very morning before he went to the bus stop I asked if he had brushed and flossed and he said, “Oops…I’ll go do it right now.” Dayum…how you gonna forget in the morning. The dentist told me at last check up not to worry too much. Once boys discover girls, the hygiene issues usually start to mean more to them and he’ll get on point.
@PBG, I think this subject is relevant to ALL of our interests…im a firm believer in doing you but at the same time I sincerely believe that a lot of what we do will affect and effect someone else and so on and so on…
@PBG, I’m teaching her to be selfish w/her body, mind and soul (yes, she has gotten the “detriment to your soul” speech already) because I believe that will keep her safe
my six year old daugther had a best friend with a 2 older sisters, 11 and 13..the 13 year old just had a baby…now this is not some ghetto family story. Mom and dad are hard workers, moved out of the hood, they have a good family relationship mom just waited to late to have the talk with her..she got a summer job at a gym fell up on a 17 year old that spit some good shyt in her ear and tada 13 year old pregnant trying to hide it and almost killed herself and the baby..momma found out because the little girl got sick took her to the doctor she was 6 months pregnant and the baby was in distress…the mother pretty much had a breakdown…sad situation and it hit so close to home because it cant easily be dismissed as well thats all she knows, or her daddy wasnt there. I mean she was a good girl, cheerleader, good grades….and the one thing her and her mother never discussed was boys and s.e.x…
@Shay-d-lady,
this is truly disturbing, but not uncommon. Parents always think their children are too young to have the s3x talk but really, the earlier the better. it just needs to be age/maturity level appropriate and broached properly.
i got on my ‘moons’ early (9 years old) and that’s when my mom busted out her medical texts and got to teaching me what the deal was… both the biology and sociology of sex and relationships. She also told me if i brought a baby into her house and I wasn’t married, that was my a$$.
S3x needs to stop being a taboo subject within families. While doing Teach for America, I had so many female students who would ask me basic questions about it (I was their bio teacher). I was always thinking in my head “You are 16… NO ONE TALKED TO YOU ABOUT THIS?!?!” These were also the girls that turned up pregnant and were devastated because they truly didn’t understand what was happening to them. My male counterparts told me similar anecdotes about their interactions with their male students.
@blackberry molasses, yeah its normally the “innocent ones” that end up pregnant….my momma was th same way she talked about se.x so much she might be the only reason I waited until college..I mean seriously..i remember in 8th grade our chior was going to Orlando for some choir festival and we needed a swimsuit I bought a white one and my momma hit the ROOF>.at the time I didnt understand but she was hot..she cussed me out cut the swimsuit up…and later came back and had a looooong talk with me after which I was still confused but I knew 2 things. 1. not to buy awhite swimsuit and 2 and that boys are morons and only out for 1 thing until they are grown up with a job..both things proved to be true
@blackberry molasses,
I teach a class to women of color at a PWI each year I have to have the biology of women chat and am amazed that these freshman and sophomore college women have no idea that their uterus sheds its lining each month (wtf), it has gottent o the point that I am having a nurse come in to teach that part.
each year we also talk about how hight the ratio of women of color that leave school to have a baby is, and they all cry out with “oh that aint happening to me” 2 years ago there were 20 students in this class 2 of them were men, 5 women from that class have since had children and dropped out of school. SMH
@blackberry molasses,
“this is truly disturbing, but not uncommon. Parents always think their children are too young to have the s3x talk but really, the earlier the better. it just needs to be age/maturity level appropriate and broached properly. ”
gospel. And getting to P-Fiddy’s question I think alot of this is equally attributed to the conversations parents have with children about sex and the role models they have which exposes them to how relationships work etc.
My mother caused a huge stir in the family when they found out my mother wasn’t doing the baby talk. At six my grandmother would tell me it was time to take a bath and to wash my pocketbook real good. And I would say “grandma I have a vagina, its not a pocketbook”. (shut up !!)
I say all that to say. I can usually tell the conversations mothers had with their daughters about se!x just by how they talk about ALL of their bodies and sex!ual/reproductive parts.
Early on, I knew the stork wasn’t bringing no babies. That men and women made them. Again its an age appropriate conversation that should happen very early and continue into late teen life.
@Princess Duvet,
I have never understood why it’s so hard for some parents to speak plainly to their children about just the physical parts of their bodies. What is wrong w/the clinical names?? I always thought that took all the mystery and ridiculousness out of it and made it a more approachable subject when that time came to have “The Talk”.
And “The Talk” should be on-going, not some big event that precipitates your daughter’s first period or when you see your son noticing girls for the first time. I’ve been having age-appropriate conversations w/Ike n’ Tina since they were toddlers. It sure makes everything easier w/them now that they are [nearly] 15 and 10.
@PBG, Dr. Daddy and Mommy didn’t hold no punches. As soon as you brought home the waiver/announcement form that you were taking sex ed…the flood gates were opened. By the time I finished class… I had so many rumors going around about me being a whore…all b/c I was well educated at home and shared the knowledge in class…if I was awake to participate.
I thank my parents for the lessons cuz these folks today… all i can do is smh sometimes.
@Ro,
I just read that comment you put in my blog…
No you did NOT just do a cheer up in there! LOL! You are funny as hellz!
@PBG, “The Talk” should be on-going, not some big event that precipitates your daughter’s first period or”… when you walk in on your 13 year old son masculating (cul=turb). Which is what happened to my girl when she walked in on my Godson, he was in the computer room lookin’ at his dad’s stash of pron. SMH. She was horrified
@blackberry molasses,
lol lawd….Moms told me if i brought a chick home….she’d smell the nana at the front steps..and take me o u t
@KingPine,
Welcome (i think… the welcome wagoneers are off today, myself included. off meaning we are having our a$$es handed to us by our J.O.B’s)
Anywho, here is your helping of **Diva Dust ™** and hopefully your gold stars, glitter and tour of the place will follow. This depends on if SouthernGirl, PBG and Luvvie show up.
@blackberry molasses,
I’m here on / off….but thanks…lol
All these issues are bout to run on me…I got three lil pines and one pinette….. I’ll talk to them just like mom and pops talked to me – as honestly as possible.
@blackberry molasses, *singing* “I may not come when you want me. but I’m on timeeeeee…”
*background choir in 4-part harmony* “on timeee…”
Hey, a sista got deadlines before she can start her vacay…which hopefully will not be delayed by the evil chicago weather….
@KingPine,
ya’ll in/out-ers be trying to confuse folks…throwing salt all up in my *gold star* game. but anywho…just in case i missed ya…*gold stars*
@SouthernGirl counting down to new orleans,
there’s two more on here, but my welcom-wagonness is soo suffereing today. i’m not sure why
@bbmo,
even the welcome wagon needs to stop for a tune up now and again. i know i’m about ready to hit the wall, hence the countdown. cross your fingers and send a glittery email to BBJ that i can get out of here friday night.
i just did a drive through…who’s the other two? i saw a “kelly” but must have missed the other one.
@Shay-d-lady, sadly this is not new. back when i was in elementary school, a girl in my 6th grade class was pregnant.
i am all about communication with the kiddies cause my mama was that way with me. when the elementary school tried to pull that girls over here, boys over there chex talk i already knew the deal.
a lot of parents unfortunately think that if they don’t bring it up or ignore it that they won’t have to deal with it. or that they are introducing something their kids might not be ready for or that by talking about it they are somehow encouraging the behavior.
i say go ahead and teach them the right things cause even if you ain’t talking to them, lil kisha with the tight shorts that’s bringing all the boys to the yard is telling your daughter the wrong things and lil tony that got his first woody the other day is trying to find somebody to test it out on…
@PBG, “I told her not to let any guy question her extensively on her comings and goings, her entertainment choices, how she spends her money or who she chooses to spend time with. And definitely not allow any one dude to monopolize her time. I’m teaching her to be selfish w/her body, mind and soul ”
This is excellent…and sadly I know a lot of grown women who missed the “to thy own self be true” memo. Hel! some of this I’ve sometimes forgotten.
So your daughter definitely has a great head start.
@PBG,
I wish I was taught the value of not having someone monopolize my time of know my every whereabout, in fact all the women in my family taught or showed the example of the opposite, that warped my relationship perception for years. After being in a borderline abusive/stalkerish relationship I snapped out of that crap and didn’t attach my identity ever again to some raggelly a$$ man…
@Relax, Relate, Alise, *gold stars* for breaking the cycle
i just learned the phrase ‘hook up’ last year. this one girl i know would say things like ‘so, did you hook up?!” and i’d be like “yeah, i just told you we had lunch” and she would say “no i mean hooook uuup”…and then i realized she wasn’t asking about my soup and salad. i simultaneously realized how many times she had ‘hooked up’ since i’d known her. i’m slow.
@Miss Patterson,
I learned this phrase in college b/c i went to a PWI. I too was ignorant of the real meaning of the term. To me “hooking up” means meeting up with your friends for some fun. For them it means meeting a “friend” for some “fun”.
@blackberry molasses,
I also went to a PWI (go Terps!) and first heard the phrase from a black girl who was encountering her people for the first time.
I too thought she meant a casual sexless get together. But she defined it to me as something that didn’t necessarily need to include intercourse, but everything up to that point.
@WordSmith, though I dont feel like I missed out on anything by going to an HBCU (though i went to a PWI for grad school), there’s definitely a lot of catching up i had to do when i started watching shows like The Hills, Laguna Beach, or any other show with a majority white young cast. and the problem is, i didn’t have ANYBODY to ask. lol.
@Panama Jackson,
Yeah, the whole reason I went to Maryland is so I could have my eyes opened to “the real world.” (read: the rest of the DC metro area/world is not 60+ percent black like PG county, and is definitely not 80+ percent black like my high school was)
I’m definitely glad I did it. I can now slip from one kind of consciousness to the other with W.E.B. DuBois and nem. (Never had to do it before.)
At times, though, I wished I went to an HBCU, but my desire to go to a huge school overrode said fleeting wishes.
@WordSmith,
Fear the Turtle! Sounds like I had the same path as you (PG County, 80% black high school).
With Maryland being so large there were about as many black students as at an HBCU but the whole hooking-up thing was still primarily a 2520 term.
@shhwhisper, yeah i actually went to Maryland for grad school myself and i was AMAZED at how many ninjas i saw. it may be a PWI, but it really didn’t feel like it. Black folks were everywhere…
@WordSmith, That’s what I thought I was doing, but I soon realized I shoulda just “stayed home”. LOL
*What is 2520, ya’ll?
@ChiChi,
2520 = 25th letter of the alphabet, Y; and 20th letter of the alphabet, T. Say ‘em together fast.
@Miss Patterson, I am still guilty of using the term Hook up for just meeting up with firends to do lunch or a movie or hang out. The yoongin be thinkin’ damn she must be a ho, but I always clarify to them what I mean and that it is not the “hook up” they mean
@Intellectual Hedonist,
Oh my GOD!!!!!!! I’ve also been using this term incorrectly it seems. BTW, I just realized this acquaintance of mine is a ho!!! She hooks up a heck of a lot! Damn!
@Intellectual Hedonist, me too! i still use it the way i mean it but depending on the crowd i’m in i may have to qualify it.
it’s like evolution when once species splits and each side develops according to whatever climate they are in. we’ve been saying “hook up” for years but never with that connotation.
@Miss Patterson,
this one girl i know would say things like ’so, did you hook up?!” and i’d be like “yeah, i just told you we had lunch” and she would say “no i mean hooook uuup”…and then i realized she wasn’t asking about my soup and salad. i simultaneously realized how many times she had ‘hooked up’ since i’d known her. i’m slow.
lol…thanks for making me spit out my cup of freshly squeezed chocolate milkshake. you owe me $3.19
@The Champ,
Did you get that “freshly squeezed” chocolate milkshake from an epileptic brown cow? How now?
Please, tell me. I’m curious n’ shyt.
@PBG,
bwuahahahaha
this comment reminds me of the bridge on that song ‘I Know I Been Changed’ eheheehe
@PBG, I ws thinking Lactating black stripper, but epileptic brown cow is a much better visual
wait ,so does hooking up=jumping off.
I’m so confussed.
Whatever happened to sally met johnny.johnny and sally go on a date. ….blah blah blah
why does Tyra keep yelling Holla @Ludacris.
She wasnt yelling holla @ Carson Kressley.
wow,Ludacris wears boxer briefs…..
@Kelly, mmmm ludacris in boxer briefs…. that made my morning!!!!!
@Kelly, see, i dont know if hooking up = jumping off.
see, from my vantage, a jump off is a chick you’re definitely hitting off. according to some lore, you don’t have to hit to hook up. which just makes it confusing. like, hooking up can be everything or nothing at the exact same time.
quite confusing.
@Kelly,
“wait ,so does hooking up=jumping off.”
That’s what I thought too. Or maybe not, because a lot of the time you’re not friends with a jump off?
@Pretty Please,
welcome and sh*t (i think)
@Pretty Please, a “hook up” is usually more of a one time thing. It can turn into a JO but usually wont. However, the gerund form of the phrase, hook”ing” up, is kind of like a JO. I would call it more of a FWB though
@Pretty Please, welcome! *gold stars*
@Kelly,
welcome and sh*t (i think. i really am having trouble keeping up and sh*t, especially since luvvie ruined my toast)
@Kelly,
welcome! *gold stars*
I dont know if relationships ever worked on the whole as people would like to think they should. I think their is a mythical history of courtship, chivalry and relationship behavior. I think now people are more likely to leave relationships that they should not be in rather than be unhappy. I also think with the internet we now here everyone relationship horror stories.
This is not to neglect the point that its still much easier to get in someones draws than to get to know them.
@Tallgent,
I agree.
Even in my own family, there have been plenty of side children, teenage pregnancies, the whole nine.
Neither of the above are indicative of “traditional” relationships.
@WordSmith, I have seen many a preacher’s daughter be the neighborhood freak with the teenage baby
@Tallgent,
I dont know if relationships ever worked on the whole as people would like to think they should. I think their is a mythical history of courtship, chivalry and relationship behavio
i alluded to this last week. i mean, yet, certain things (ie marriage rates, etc) have gone down, but are the quality of our relationships really that much worse than they were 50 years ago? we seem to always assume that the answer is “definitely”, but how do we know that for sure?
@The Champ,
We don’t. And I’d argue the quality of relationships are the same, but that there are several factors at play.
1) Divorce is not taboo.
2) Women are largely independent. We’re no longer afraid of leaving a marriage because of financial reasons (and within this, I add that marriage is no longer necessary for a woman to live a somewhat comfortable life, since we [for the most part] “have our own), or needing someone to “be a father to the child[ren].”
Which leads me to…
3) Single parenthood is no longer taboo or grounds for being outcast from a community.
I’m sure there are more, but these, I think, are the salient points.
@The Champ, I heard that the relationship rates are skewed to only include marriages of the past 50 or so years and those that only have been in affect for 5 or less years…is their some truth to that? B/c that would say a lot about those numbers (putting finger to forehead to ponder)
@docdj23, Even still back in the day a woman would be less likely to leave b/c it was very taboo and would have a hard time supporting herself. So the stats dont really matter. The game has changed!
first of all, let me say i’m sooo glad u decided to write about this. This is the second op-ed i’ve read from this guy and all i’ve concluded is that he sucks. (His last bit was about how black women and their bitterness are responsible for prop 8 not passing)
@apres moi, i read that and kind of wrote him off. if it wasn’t for the email i received from Dom, I’d never have seen it.
but he does have a tendency to not say a damn thing. kind of like michael eric dyson who will use an entire book to say nothing more than, “tupac was born and then he died.” you have to wade through 200 pages of uselessness.
@apres moi,
Dang, I must have missed that one. I’m usually all up on NYT! I love his name though Chuck M. Blow. Lol!
YES!!! I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t know how to be in a relationship toi guys who r interested in me…I be like “be patient with me cuz this is all new territory.” Not that I was hella into the idea of “hooking up”, but it was moreso just the way it was. Also, for a long time I had the idea that you were in a “relationship” with whomever you had “relations” with, it was more a matter of being exclusive or not. AND, it was even easier to fall out of a “relationship” when u were never exclusive in the first place.
So now I’m trying to unlearn what I knew when I was a teen and learn the healthy ways to be in a relationship. Shyt is difficult…cuz I have a low tolerance for bs now because of the past experiences. And most of the guys I tend to date seem to know just as much as me, if not less, about how to be in a relationship…so we’ll try to figure it out, but haven’t been very successful
@trin-trin,
I don’t think you need to be too hard on yourself – sounds like you’re in an emotional growth spurt. Once you feel more comfortable in your own space you’ll be better equipped to welcome someone else in as well.
oooohhhmmmm……………………………….
@Lil’T, “I don’t think you need to be too hard on yourself – sounds like you’re in an emotional growth spurt.”
I agree. We ALL got something to learn about relationships. One person’s advantage is another person’s uphill battle. I never seen a person who came into this life with all the answers all the time regarding it.
@Princess Duvet,
I never seen a person who came into this life with all the answers all the time regarding it
obviously, you’ve never seent the champ then
@The Champ, seems somebody done tooken all they ego pills this merning.
I totally agree. It is hard to figure out how to be in a relationship if the only successful one you’ve seen is the Huxtables. The only thing we can do is see what not to do and use trial and error for the rest. But it’s taking a while to catch on. Relationships aren’t built to last. At the first sign of turmoil, people are ready to jump ship. What is us gon do?
@Ange, yeah, though i’m an advocate for divorce (i really don’t think some people should ever be married and i can’t imagine that faking your way thru a marriage for appearances sake is healthy for anybody), i often think that peoples willingness to leave so quickly is making it difficult for many folks to really understand how hard it is to work thru issues in a relationships. its mentally too easy to check out and we impart that into our children.
on a sidenote, has anybody ever wondered why its SO easy to get married and SO hard to get divorced? its hella easy to make a bad decision but its like walking thru hell with concrete shoes on to undo it? seems like it should be more difficult to get married…i think if you had to go thru hell ot get married, you’d have a lot less divorce.
@Panama Jackson,
on a sidenote, has anybody ever wondered why its SO easy to get married and SO hard to get divorced?
this is a great question and sh*t
@Panama Jackson,
So what are you suggesting, a pre-marriage hazing? lol! The whole marriage thing has to be important enough that you think real hard before getting into it, and real REAL hard before getting out.
@Lil’T, umm hell yes. there definitely needs to be pre-marriage hazing so people can really determine if they actually want to go thru with it. some folks just decide to get married and two months later can’t stand one another…
@Panama Jackson,
There was a movie about this with Robin Williams and Mandy Moore – he plays a priest putting the young couple through the ringer before they can get hitched. I fell asleep on that movie, though. Those who decide to get in and out of marriage quickly are the perfect example of what not to do for the rest of us.
@Lil’T,
a pre-marriage hazing
Believe me that this very thing happens in many-a-culture.
My cousin’s fiance (the latest to undergo the hazing) can attest to it. The poor man was under scrutiny for a good 4 hours… It’s supposedly all fun and jokes, but it can be quite intimidating to have 30+ people (often older than you) asking a random range of questions on your intentions.
@Ms. Sula,
oh, you mean “The Engagement”
I think people need to take some practices from that one and incorporate them. Basically, if both people (especially the man) make it to the end of that thing and still want to marry, there is serious potential there.
@Panama Jackson,
It’s always harder to undo a “bad” decision than a good one.
It takes just a couple seconds to have someone chop your hand cleanly off with an axe, takes surgeons a couple hours to put it back on and weeks before it’s back to anything approaching 100%.
It’s easy to buy drinks and get drunk, much harder to talk your way out of jail once you run over two girls, a trashcan, and fire hydrant.
Easy to jump off a building. . . harder to stop falling.
Or, put another way, there is a tendency for things in the universe to move towards a state of chaos. Order requires a large amount of energy. So, actions that increase chaos tend to be easy . . . you have natural momentum giving impetus to those. Actions that attempt to increase order on the other hand are working “uphill”.
@kamakula,
I’m digging this WHOLE comment!
@Luvvie,
Luvvie’s being blinded by Quantum Mechanics and Chaos Theory…. so am I
@blackberry molasses,
If this comment was a man, he’d be wearing a sweater vest and sitting next to me in the movie theater, sharing Cocoa-Cola and popcorn.
@PBG,
with his hat in his lap his jacket around your shoulders? cuz you know the picture show is “air cooled”
@kamakula,
I love this. Thanks, you beautiful nerd you.
@kamakula, If this comment were a man, he’d be me eBoo
it’s crazy – there are newspaper articles cautioning parents about dropping their kids off at the mall to hang out or go to movies, or whatever – coz what happens now is that there are these hookups that take place in the public toilets! and we’re talking about 12-15 year old age group here.
then there’s the whole recording of sexual encounters on cell phones that takes place in high schools – and the kids forward the footage, causing much humiliation and heightened stress levels…
how do you begin to build up a sense of how to engage meaningfully with the opposite sex when your first interactions are these impersonal, exploitative encounters?
god, i remember as a 14 year old, this boy followed me home every day of the term, begging me to be his girlfriend… and i was like ‘no, no, no!’ and here i thought my teen love life was intense!
@superwoman, yeah, kids nowadays do have a lot more to deal with. social networking makes it much easier to ruin somebody’s reputation…and it takes like a nano-second to do.
i hate hooking up.
@Liz,
Do you hate hooking up, or do you love dating so much?
@WuDaMan, i dont date….so yeah i dont like hooking up. it seems emotionally cruel to me.
Are hook-ups really that bad now compared to the 60s and 70s? It seems like people were a lot wilder back then….. I would have agreed that young people are more into hook-ups than relationships a year ago, but I’m not so sure anymore. I’ve worked in programs with middle/high school students and another one with 18-20 year olds and I was actually really surprised how much they valued relationships and the effort that they put into it. They came from all types of backgrounds. They seemed to have a healthier view of relationships than a lot of 30 year olds that I know. I definitely agree that parents set the model for relationships for their children. My parents stuck it out through everything and it taught me to work through my problems and that love has its ups & downs. Unfortunately, most of the guys that I’ve dated didn’t have the best models and I can see how it affected them no matter how hard they tried.
@Leila,
Good point Leila – the 60′s and 70′s was wild. But the pendulum eventually swings back the other way…
@Lil’T, though the 60s and 70s…more the 70s were wild, think about the fact that it was a sexual revolution because people were more open with their sexuality.
nowadays, its the norm. sex is everywhere. it sells. the backing plot of everything is some sort of sordid sexual encounter amongst people to keep things interesting. i think now, sex has a platform that’s just part of the regular fabric of society whereas before, it was just all in the home and certain things were taboo.
i think people, and namely kids, are starting to get the message now and learning how to be more responsible (some anyway) bc so much has been put into the universe about the fact that being sexually free just might kill you. its registering.
on the relationship front, i think that a lot of us are used to grandparents who made it last forever and parents who’ve been divorced once or even twice. we want what our grandparents had but we’re used to what our parents did. that can make for some confusing relationshipping.
@Panama Jackson, “We want what our grandparents had but we’re used to what our parents did. that can make for some confusing relationshipping.”
Good point!
@Panama Jackson,
Interesting point. My case is exactly the opposite, tho – my folks were married until my dad passed, but my mom’s parents got divorced. Can you say town scandal in West Virginia?!
And you’re right – sexual freedom is not revolutionary to the kids. But we also know that kids like to go against “the norm” – it could set the stage for a more conservative crop of teens…
@Lil’T, i dont know about that. kids hormones levels are at too heightened a level at that age for anybody to ever say, as a society, let’s go the other way. its been like that for eons…just in the 50s, they kept it under wraps on TV.
@Panama Jackson,
exaactly. so are we going through something new, or are we just seeing what was already there for the first time? In the old days a girl would “go visit relatives” if she was preggers or worse, head for a shady alley/doctor.
Perhaps I used the wrong word when I said teens may become more conservative. I don’t think they’ll stop having the sex, but I do think they’ll be savvier about avoiding the consequences. at least some will.
@Lil’T, You have a point. I’ve come across teenagers who are rebelling and want to wait for the right person/marriage before having sex. This includes guys. A lot of young kids get a bum rap, but I don’t think they’re really any worse than our generation or parents generation. .
I think he is right and I think he needed an article to write about as well
I feel like Daddy/Mom issues + Stupid expectations (What we see on TV) has warped our judgment of what a relationship is and ends up pushing more and more people to “hooking up” because of the horror stories.
This is at least with the black folk I know. White people I went to school with, a lot are married already (I am 25). I can’t front I have been in hookup stage for 1.5 years till I get myself right and find a woman I feel I can get that dual income money (does the dance) with.
@James Nantucket,
This is at least with the black folk I know. White people I went to school with, a lot are married already (I am 25). I can’t front I have been in hookup stage for 1.5 years till I get myself right and find a woman I feel I can get that dual income money (does the dance) with.
in your opinion, what separates you from your white classmates in this regard?
@The Champ,
Really most white people I know who are married right now are married to air headed chicks. The chicks who thought Palin was lord and savior and read Twilight like its the bible. I want a semi smart woman, just dumb enough for a laugh.
Hmm…. hooking up…tsk tsk and smh. I would like to address this first as an adult and secondly as a parent.
Now that I’m older and have been exposed to various people and relationship situations, I can truly say that you really don’t realize what a relationship is/should be until you evaluate who you are within yourself and what you HONESTLY want in your significant other. Your parents’ examples of handling relationships as a child gives you two choices how you go about them in your adult life: a) you want to mimic theirs to the tee or b) you want to go the totally opposite route to see which outcome YOU arrive at for yourself.
My example is as follows, I myself grew up in a two parent household…one being a stepparent….but I initially told myself that as an adult I would never be in a relationship like my mom…chasing after a man just to be in a “relationship”. So initially “hooking up” came into play as I was determinied to do me and not let a SO mess that situation up for myself. So I kinda feel like the teens are hooking up not as a replacement to relationships but more as a means to self identity preservation but not realizing that they are destroying themselves physically and emotionally in the long run. It relieves them of the stress from wondering where that SO stands in their life as far as priority level..since they’re just a hookup. Truth be told the younger generation may be irresponsible on a number of things but they are shifting into entrepeneurship mode a lot sooner than those that came before them.
It may just be that where women were taught… way back when… that we should grow up and wait on ” tall, dark and handsome ” to sweep us off our feet, marry us and pop out some babies for them, the new school mamas are preaching the lessons of have your own and do them boys like they used to do you….in marches hooking up…no strings attached, aside from the possible STI you may incur while doing the deed or GOD forbid the three letter word you can’t get rid …K-I-D..lol.
I digress.
*pauses while changing into the parenting hat* ahem…clears throat….
I wish my eleven year old would?!?!?! I would knock his lil a$$ out with one chop to the throat!
I was waiting on his father to give him “the talk” as I feel that by him being a black male child it was only right but I have officially revoked his man privilege and taken it upon myself. I am stressing to my sons and their sister the truth in regard to s.e.x (i.e., body parts, how they function, intercourse, masturbation and the consequences…good and bad…of the actions taken). My mom was taboo about s.e.x… from herein referred to as “the act”. She told us literally nothing about how the act would make us feel emotionally or physically thus throwing us to the wolves and forcing us to figure it out on our own. This alone can have a GREAT impact on how you handle relationships. So with that said, my relationship knowledge coming into the game was nil accept for what I perceived it to be from a child’s eye view while watching her. These kids that are hooking up are obviously not in tune with their self worth. This lesson is taught through your actions shown to your children by the way you live your life (most influential) and by the things you tell them. I teach them to love themselves so that they can know how to love others, as they would themselves.
When it’s all said and done if you can ‘t be in a relationship with yourself can you truly be in one with someone else? And also, just because one relationship scenario is perceived as working for a majority, why should it be considered as “not working” when one chooses to go against the grain of the soft concrete society we live in.
@I’m Just Saying,
And also, just because one relationship scenario is perceived as working for a majority, why should it be considered as “not working” when one chooses to go against the grain of the soft concrete society we live in
please expound
What say you, VSBers, are so many relationships going the way of the dodo bird because we just don’t know how to be in a relationship anymore?
With all the relationship books out there–even if you don’t have an example in your life–if you can read, you can get relationship advice–so no I don’t think that’s the answer.
Relationships don’t work if two people are not on one accord…if someone wants something that the other person can’t or is not willing to give…relationships can’t work with two selfish individuals.
There’s really no excuse for a relationship not to work—unless the two people coming together are just not compatible. Dating is the step that you take to find out if you are compatible.
Relationships don’t work when people try to skip the dating process and rush into the screwing process which then leads to a relationship that shouldn’t have developed into one in the first place.
@Shelia, “Relationships don’t work when people try to skip the dating process and rush into the screwing process which then leads to a relationship that shouldn’t have developed into one in the first place.”
I agree with this.
@Shelia, “There’s really no excuse for a relationship not to work—unless the two people coming together are just not compatible”
This is a good reason for relationships to not work, but relationships take a lot of work and compromise. Communication is the biggest problem for my relationships. A lot of guys that I’ve dated are poor communicators and will shut down instead of dealing with the problem.
@Leila, “Communication is the biggest problem for my relationships.”
I agree Leila. Both parties need to learn how to communicate better with one another. The desire to do that has to be there. Sometimes folks have an attitude that it’s either their way or no way.
“are so many relationships going the way of the dodo bird because we just don’t know how to be in a relationship anymore?”
I think this could be attributed to the problem, along with:
1. Soldja Boy- I’m just gonna keep blaming him for everything;
2. Technology- There are so many ways of getting at a person now; Text, email, Gchat, etc. Back in the day, it was good ole fashion courting… the guy comes to your mothers house, chats with them, and then you sit on the porch swing and really get to know eachother. In the technological world, all we are getting is smoke and mirrors. Can you really get to know a person through text?
And finally yes, to what you said. Some people need examples. I know folks who didn’t grow up in a married couple who turned out to be fabulous examples of parents and now engaged folks. But on the other hand, I know those few who didn’t grow up in the ideal family unit, and blame it for everything, including their poor choices in mates.
@Nicki Sunshine, for some reason, i’m compelled at this juncture to reference one of the best lines ever uttered in a movie by an actress who definitely deserves at least an Oscar nomination: Janet Jackson
“…JUST LIKE MY DAMN MAMA!” ~ from the movie Poetic Justice, a great piece of cinematic splendor
@Panama Jackson, HAAAA! one of the movie classics.
I don’t see this as such a big problem. I’ve been around whits people my whole life (military brat) and they have always been hooking up, it’s not that new. Why do you think they catch mono all the damn time but you rarely hear of black people getting it. At the end of the day, people that want to be together will be together.
@J. McFly, “Why do you think they catch mono all the damn time but you rarely hear of black people getting it. ”
This just kilt me LOL. And took me back to middle school. The 2520s were forever getting it and we treated them like they had the Boubonic Plague.
@Nicki Sunshine,
This had me lauging as well. What the bejeezus IS it with white folk and mono? Out of school for months and sh*t. I neeevaaahhh see black people with mono!
@Lil’T, I think it’s bc they kiss so much and so openly. Think about it… in the club, girls on girls, sometimes non sweet bro’s do it (I’ve seen it!) … they are a lot more free spirited that we are.
@Nicki Sunshine, lol!
@Nicki Sunshine,
I had to google mono disease. *smh*
@J. McFly, this is the damn truth
@J. McFly,
My lil play cousin caught mono one time and the first thing I thought was “ewwww that’s a 2520 disease…what the hayle you doing wit it??”
@J. McFly,
I had mono my sophmore year of college. My then boyfriend went to a PWI. Go figure.
@Dom,
PWI?
btw, i had mono too. for a week, i felt like i was gonna die. then, for thee rest of the time, i felt like a character ben kingsley would have played
mono is a strange sickness
@The Champ,
PWI- I thought it was Private White Institution like Intellectual Hedonist uses. Sounds better than saying college with no black folks.
Lol! Yeah, mono was a beast. Thank god thats all he gave me though, I’d rather have mono than cooties down below.
@Dom,
cooties down below.
lol…reading this made me think of that 80′s movie “critters”, with the little gremlin like creatures biting everyones shins. id hate to have crotch critters
@The Champ,
I can’t believe you remember that movie…lmao
@Dom, i actually just use PWI to mean predominantly white institution. basically anything that aint an HBCU.
@Panama Jackson, meee too i thought PWI was a “predominately white institution”, which could be a state school wit a whole bunch of 2520s up and thru.
@Panama Jackson,
Ohh. I can dig it. The Mono-Ex went to one of them too.
@Dom, PWI- “I thought it was Private White Institution like Intellectual Hedonist uses.” I don’t believe I have ever used PWI to mean Private, if I did that is a huge mistake on my part.
PWI: Predomenantly White Institution is basically any institution that is not classified as a Historically Black College & University (HBCU), Hispanic Serving Institution (HSI) or Tribal College (Native American Colleges or Universities).
HBCU, HSI, and Tribal Colleges must have an enrollment (minimally) of 25% of that population in order to be considered or designated such and receive an apportionment of federal money through the Morrill Act and Land Grant Acts.
I had to go to my Higher Ed Bible to confirm the accuracy of my information.
Who says VSB doesn’t encourage scholarly research?
@Intellectual Hedonist, Temple University once had 22% black ppl. Just wanted ya to know that
@P.E.Y.S.O., that’s wonderful, however they are not part of the Morrill and Land Grant program that designates them as an HBCU, I don’t make the rules I am just reporting them
@P.E.Y.S.O., O i know. i found it interesting when i found that out. just trying to spread the knowledge
@Intellectual Hedonist,
Lol, thanks for the (abundant) info. Next time I’ll be in the know.
@J. McFly,
I’m just replaying the conversations I would have with my 2520 roommate on Saturday afternoons in my head. They inevitably went something like this:
Me going to brunch at 1:30: So, you have fun last night?
Roomie just waking up: OMG I go soooo trashed at the [insert random 2520 fraternity] party last night. I totally hooked up with this guy.
Me: Really?
Roomie: Yeah, but he disappeared. I drank some more and ended up hooking up with another guy. Like we were in the closet and I think I gave him a handjob or something.
Me: *grabbing hand sanitizer and can of Lysol– spraying down doorknobs, phone and edge of my desk* Sounds like you had fun. Well, I’m going to brunch. See ya. Oh, and don’t sit on my bed. Thanks.
Not coincidentally, this chick was out of school with mono after the first 3 weeks of school.
@blackberry molasses,
Me: *grabbing hand sanitizer and can of Lysol– spraying down doorknobs, phone and edge of my desk* Sounds like you had fun. Well, I’m going to brunch. See ya. Oh, and don’t sit on my bed. Thanks.
LO-feraking-L!
I am interested in seeing how the current situation politically/economically will affect how people relate to each other. Like, does the marriage rate go up in times of economic distress? I keep hearing that tough times bring out the best in us as a whole. And 2 incomes are better than one in a depression.
Plus, I think that the younger generation is more ecologically responsible, techno savvy, politically aware, etc. than I was at their age – and I was more of those things than my parents. They just have different priorities than we think they should (what teen doesn’t?). Their thinking will be more in line with ours when they get tired of the “hook up” game – like we did.
Yes, they do need guidance and a good example. But like many of the moms here have posted, their kids will benefit from being told the truth straight up. Most folks my age see the results of trying old school rules (just Don’t Do It) on new school kids.
@Lil’T,
Shoot, Two incomes are better than one in any economy! If I were a dude I’d put a ring on it just for the tax refund LOL!
being in a relationship isn’t the thing to do in this day and age, thus a lot of people disregard it and in turn don’t know how to handle one successfully.
I don’t have the discipline to behave properly in a relationship and currently am not interested in working on that, which is why I’m single as a dollar bill and will prolly stay that way for a while. Lol.
- the realest shyt i ever wrote.
@Cornell Westside,
*singing*
I don’t see nothing wrong……
with knowing thyself.
@Lil’T,
Yeppers.
@Cornell Westside,
I wish more people were this honest w/themselves. Save us ALL a lot of trouble!
@PBG, seriously.
@Cornell Westside,
bravo! at least you know this and are acting accordingly. you definitely get a *gold star* today.
@Cornell Westside,
**this is BBMo respecting the gangstaism displayed by Cornell Westside**
If more people, male and female, were this in tune with themselves, the world IN GENERAL would be a much nicer place.
No one. Let me repeat. NO ONE knows how to be in a relationship anymore. And I don’t entirely blame the hook up epidemic. People don’t know how to be in relationships for two reasons. The first is that no one talks anymore! I wish I had a dime for everytime I brought up a relationship issue with a chick only to have her respond with “You’re making a big deal out of this.” Then only to have “this” go unsaid and blow up in an unrelated argument.
Sigh..
Secondly, people expect behaviors/attitudes from their significant other that they don’t live up to themselves. Or more specifically, they come down on their significant others for things they don’t like about themselves. Crazy, ain’t it?
Basically, we all need to be happy with ourselves before we try to have a relationship. People need to realize that you are 2 separate entities that share something, NOT two halves of a whole. These are the reasons hooking up is so frequent and I can’t even be mad at the young folk.
@Jarrod Halsey, “we all need to be happy with ourselves before we try to have a relationship.”
If you’re not happy with yourself, then you’ll never find happiness in a relationship. I didn’t realize this until I got my sh*t together and am finally where I want to be. My relationships are a lot better now than in my young 20s where I was still trying to figure myself out.
@Jarrod Halsey,
“People need to realize that you are 2 separate entities that share something, NOT two halves of a whole.”
**Bethlehem Fire Baptized Holiness Church**
@PBG,
“**Bethlehem Fire Baptized Holiness Church**”
LMAO at this church name!
Its got to be FIRE BAPTIZED before its holy….. WOW.
@blackberry molasses,
I PROMISE you, that is the name of a real church not 5 minutes away from where I am right now. It’s so little it looks like a storage unit.
@PBG,
I need to see a picture of this place. Not that I don’t believe you… I just need to laugh really hard
@PBG, yeah, i’m gonna have to go ahead and concur with my whoadie J.Halsey on that one and offer a church up for exaltation myself.
*Church*
lol. seriously, it used to KILL me when women i’d date would be on this, “don’t you want somebody to complete you?” and i’d be like, “no, i’m good. i need a sidekick, a partner in crime…if you’re looking for the other half of yourself, you’re dating the wrong dude. i’m going to do me and i hope you do you… then i’m gonna do you.”
@Panama Jackson,
Yeah, what is that about anyway?? I want a whole to go w/my whole so we can get together and make an even mo’ better, mo’ bigger WHOLE!! You can’t even function as a single person being a half of anything.
Geesh…I never understood that sappy azz logic.
@PBG,
Girl why do you have me over here like, “mo money, mo money, mo money!” all Wayans style and sh*t. I’m wheezing at my desk again.
But I concur – 2 wholes is ALWAYS better than 2 halves!
@Panama Jackson,
“i’m going to do me and i hope you do you… then i’m gonna do you.”
This is my motto for the rest of the year.
@Jarrod Halsey,
eureka!!! so glad to meet cha lol..
I gotta say, its particularly refreshing to read these types of comments from other men.
@Princess Duvet,
My pleasure. And at everyone, sorry I took so long to check the responses. I was too busy enjoying the end of the school year and my last class of the grad school semester. NYC people, JOIN MY WEEKEND!
@Jarrod Halsey,
No one. Let me repeat. NO ONE knows how to be in a relationship anymore.
you mean no one?
@The Champ,
No one. At all. BTW, Giants/Steelers Super Bowl?
Good post, but I’ve one quibble.
I’d argue that our parents’ generation (baby boomers, if we want to put a label on them) are the not the last ones who stuck out relationships even when problems arose within them. In fact, they’re the ones who made divorce more acceptable and more common.
So we can, in fact, blame the generation before us (in my case, “generation Y” or “millenials”) for the deterioration of the relationship as it’s been known traditionally.
@WordSmith, yeah, you’re probably right, though some of us on this site are old as methuselah. LOL.
jokes.
and by “us” i don’t mean myself since i ain’t even reached 30 yet.
@Panama Jackson,
P-Dawg – u still old, tho.
@Lil’T, lucky for me i’m so damn sexxy then.
@Panama Jackson,
And sexxy never gets old.
I think relationships are failing or not being considered because of a few reasons. People in their 30s and younger are too childish. I always see relationships fail because of selfishness and disney type expectations. I also think people really think waaay to highly of themselves. It seems that people were raised to be everything but decent human beings. Why is it so hard for men and women to understand that you have to give to receive in a relationship. People get into relationships expecting people to be their own personal emotional and physical fodder.
@Humble_One, People get into relationships expecting people to be their own personal emotional and physical fodder.
That’s what happened in my last relationship. I was with a guy who was so unhappy because he wasn’t where he wanted to be (he had a good career but was very ambitious) and I gave him a lot of emotional support, but it was draining.
@Humble_One,
“I also think people really think waaay to highly of themselves. ”
Hummy I totally disagree…particularly in regards to black women..i honestly don’t think we think HIGHLY ENOUGH of who we are. All the other external bullshyt is a buffer and a layer of insecurity.
“Why is it so hard for men and women to understand that you have to give to receive in a relationship.”
this takes a bit of discernment. I’ve seen people WAY more of themselves than the other person actually deserved.
“People get into relationships expecting people to be their own personal emotional and physical fodder.
”
Are you looking at this objectively? just asking.
@Princess Duvet,
“I totally disagree…particularly in regards to black women..i honestly don’t think we think HIGHLY ENOUGH of who we are. All the other external bullshyt is a buffer and a layer of insecurity.
I agree w/your disagreement.
@PBG,
i second that!
in addition,your self esteem affects the type of man you will attract. ninjas have a weak detector… and if they sense that ish… you will be preyed on.
@Princess Duvet,
“particularly in regards to black women..i honestly don’t think we think HIGHLY ENOUGH of who we are. All the other external bullshyt is a buffer and a layer of insecurity.”
I partially agree. There are women like that. There are also women that believe they are god’s gift to men. I have seen way too many women demand that a man is this or that but they don’t have or don’t feel they need to have their own ish together.
@Humble_One,
i agree, but there is a big difference between being cocky and confident.
@laylah,
i agree, but there is a big difference between being cocky and confident.
…and when you say the champ’s the best then thats a compliment.
sorry. big d-block fan here, and i couldn’t pass that up
@Humble_One,
“I also think people really think waaay to highly of themselves.”
I have to agree with this. Those in the younger generation have grown up in the time of everybody gets a trophy, no one gets cut from the team, self-esteem boosters/pats on the back/unnecessary and exaggerated compliments so no one gets their feelings hurt environment. This has contributed to youngin’s thinking that everything they do is fabulous and wonderful and woe to the person who dares to question their actions. It’s easier for them to find someone new than to have someone challenge them and maybe, perhaps precipitate some personal growth. (I’m talking about positive challenges and the types of things we all learn by relating to others…not some negative, nagging or abusive ish)
And to top it off, all of that cheerleading of our youngsters has tended to make them insecure under that veneer of exaggerated self-worth. They truly wonder if they really are as great as they’ve been told they are. Kids need to see and feel failure to know how to deal with it. This helps them learn how to analyze their actions, the subsequent consequences, and make a plan for a different outcome next time. Same thing happens in relationships, if our children never try to have a relationship because they are hooking up thereby never learning about what works and what doesn’t work for them individually, how they ever going to find out what changes to make in themselves, what type of expectations to have, what to look for in a partner, etc.
If all you’ve ever had to do to succeed is some half-azzed attempt, why are we suprised when these children grow up and think it’s easier to bail on a relationship when it actually requires some work on their parts? Cuz we all know real, true, meaningful relationships require work and dedication.
@Luvtheshoes,
“They truly wonder if they really are as great as they’ve been told they are. Kids need to see and feel failure to know how to deal with it.”
i totally agree with this. that’s why i HATE when everybody gets medals and trophies even if they finish in 5th place.
naw youngsta. only first place gets something. you want to get a medal, do better. this time, you failed. lol.
@Luvtheshoes,
I agree. That is why you have so many people scared or ashamed to take a loss. You also have people having pride or taking a stand for insignificant ish and not caring about things that do matter. Too many people are don’t want to get dirty or can’t take it when things get rough b/c they never had to face it.
@Luvtheshoes,
“This has contributed to youngin’s thinking that everything they do is fabulous and wonderful”
The internet, with Myspace and the like, hasn’t helped either. Got all these kids thinking they superstars. They take their picture 100 times until their head is tilted just the right way, with just the right lighting so that they look more fabulous than they ever do in real life. Then they make 100′s of faux friends based on their fake but fabulous identity.
@Luvtheshoes,
“I have to agree with this. Those in the younger generation have grown up in the time of everybody gets a trophy, no one gets cut from the team, self-esteem boosters/pats on the back/unnecessary and exaggerated compliments so no one gets their feelings hurt environment. This has contributed to youngin’s thinking that everything they do is fabulous and wonderful and woe to the person who dares to question their actions. It’s easier for them to find someone new than to have someone challenge them and maybe, perhaps precipitate some personal growth. (I’m talking about positive challenges and the types of things we all learn by relating to others…not some negative, nagging or abusive ish)…
If all you’ve ever had to do to succeed is some half-azzed attempt, why are we suprised when these children grow up and think it’s easier to bail on a relationship when it actually requires some work on their parts? Cuz we all know real, true, meaningful relationships require work and dedication.”
i agree partially, however I don’t think kids never “failing” at things or being told “they don’t suck” is the reason adults won’t commit to relationships. There has been alot of entreprenueral research about some of these “new millenium kids” shifting paradigms in regards to the way innovation occurs and how business is done: ie facebook, myspace…So thinking your special and wonderful and a rule breaker is the reason why we are all here on vsb today. lol
the problem in my opinion is just the fallout of lack of communication regarding sex#ual discussions, intimacy, and being good partners, frames of reference if the above was missing, self-reflection etc..I know TONS of older people who are pis!s poor at relationships. Its just the coming of age is compounded by quickness, immediate gratification, delayed adolescence etc. etc…
What the high hel! is wrong in thinking you are special. Special people do great things. The opposite gets more relationship Harriett Tubman relationship martyrs…balance gets you better love and committment.
@Princess Duvet,
I agree with you and shhwhisper that MySpace, Facebook, text, etc. have taken alot of intimacy out of relationships and therefore reduced people’s skill sets. And I definitely agree with you that special people do great things. The problem is that a lot of kids think they’re the most special of the special without the work, effort, dedication and humbleness required of that type of accolade. Resulting in some peeps out there thinking they the ish when really they need to be sat down. You know…that dude or woman who thinks so highly of themselves that should you suggest a different course of action regarding something in the relationship, says naw, I’m good…it’s easier to find someone else so kick rocks!
Of course, this is all just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions…Opinions are like azzholes, everyone’s got one and everybody thinks everyone else’s stinks.
@Luvtheshoes,
“I agree with you and shhwhisper that MySpace, Facebook, text, etc. have taken alot of intimacy out of relationships and therefore reduced people’s skill sets.”
I actually was getting at someting a little different in regards to myspace and facebook..i believe and i could be wrong..were both started by “kids” who thought they were special and didn’t really have to do it like the grown ups. I kind of oversimplified it a little ..but i say that to say i don’t agree with the causation in your premise.
“The problem is that a lot of kids think they’re the most special of the special without the work, effort, dedication and humbleness required of that type of accolade. Resulting in some peeps out there thinking they the ish when really they need to be sat down.”
I really disagree with this. and in regards to your relationship opinion i disagree even more (i like to disagree i think LOL) anywhoo..I don’t really feel like a relationship is about the constant toil, stress and strife. the ones that I’ve seen really work seem rather fluid. Im not saying they don’t have their issues.
but its not the old negro spirituals of getting over..and “soon and very soon”, and “when this life is over”..im not seeing that.
my kid is gonna think his/her shyt don’t stink..while still respecting others. I think it will make them great contributors to society, great innovators, great leaders and great relationship “choosers” and “discerners” (is discerner a word LOL).
@Princess Duvet,
“What the high hel! is wrong in thinking you are special.”
There’s nothing wrong with thinking you’re special. But it seems like there are an increasing number of people, especially teens and early 20′s, that think they are going to be superstar special and are just waiting for their big break to become a rapper, sports star, apprentice winner, millionaire inventor, next Spike Lee or Diddy, etc. There’s nothing wrong with reaching for the stars but the percentage of people who think they are “that type of special” far exceeds the percentage of people who will reach those type of aspirations. It’s the thinking you’re “that type of special” without having special abilities or putting in an extreme amount of effort that bothers me. It’s like a general sense of entitlement just because you were born.
You’re typically forced into reality by mid to late twenties (+ 5 years for aspiring rappers). Couple that with a relationship and it leads some folks to be bitter. Like, ‘I was gonna be a millionaire with a gorgeous wife/husband but I guess I’ll settle for being with you and living a regular life’.
@shhwhisper, “rapper, sports star, apprentice winner, millionaire inventor, next Spike Lee or Diddy, etc”
with the exception of the first 2..the last 4 are actually great aspirations. And I wouldn’t speak death to any child’s dream even the MC version. I think Monk can attest to there being many ways in entertainment without a mic in your hand. But thats just a personal thing, usually kids only dream as big as their parent’s will let them. And with my little crumb crushers the sky won;t be the limit… that’s just how special they’re gonna be. LOL
What does my opinion have to do with relationships you ask? special people (and call it a moderate level of entitlement if you will) DON”T SETTLE. They know their worth and they make solid relationship choices, even when “the regular life” is what everybody else is living.
@Princess Duvet,
Moderate level of entitlement, I like that.
SHH SHH…
im not gonna lie in regards to my relationship choices i have alot of self-entitlement goings ons. Like PBG wrote up thread this is what we need to get our girls to know. That they have a right (No-OBLIGATION) to be choosey and selective about who they spend their time with and who enters their body.
so in that regard yeah i have a huge sense of entitlement…im not doing slavery in my relationships…he!l im not even doing it in my professional life..so im not gonnabeable to be nobody’s martyr. not in this life.
@Princess Duvet,
I think my point may have been misconstrued. I don’t think anyone should ever “settle” for someone. I’m talking about people who don’t think they have any personal growth needing to be done because they already been told a thousand times how “special” they are (and rewarded accordingly). Even those of us with healthy self-esteems and senses of self-worth may have things we want to improve about ourselves.
And I definitely don’t think being honest about what kids are achieving lessens their dreams or shuts down their options. Heck, I think my son needs to not make a team or always get an “A” in order to show him that if he wants those big dreams to come true, he’s gotta keep it pushing and work his tail off to get it. I always encourage him and think his potential is endless but I’m also not gonna let him think just by showing up, its his for the taking. No, little man…you want the outstanding things in life, you gotta put in outstanding effort. And there ain’t no trophy for just doing what you’re supposed to be doing.
Luvtheshoes
perhaps i have missed the point then. I still don’t think a child’s sense of perceived “gradiosity” makes for fycked up relationships. I see it in the actual reverse.
I relate well to kids ..and i also don’t see much difference (with the exception in the above “new challenges i mentioned in my first response to you”) between generational behavior..if kids got this whole relationship thing fycked up..so do their parents..and so do/did their parent’s parents. We seem to forget that. Just because an xbox is in the equation doesn’t mean the whole conversation shifts to something else.
unaware, unevolved, self-hating, one dimensional people make bad parternship choices, they commence bad relationships, they show these models of how to get along in the world to their kids. rinse. repeat.
“preceived grandiosity”..
“What say you, VSBers, are so many relationships going the way of the dodo bird because we just don’t know how to be in a relationship anymore?”
*Peeking in real quick before I get caught*
Yes, and yes.
*quick exit*
@miss t-lee,
Why did I just imagine you peeking in the door w/those big bug eyes a la’ “Steppin Fetchin” w/that “Massa comin’!!” look on your face!!
Oh goodness! Hilarious!!
@PBG,
I know…this ish sucks mayne.
The conservative financial instituition is crackin’ down.
B.A.N.’s…I tell ya…lol
Ummm, when I was in 6th grade I knew kids who had gotten it in already. By 8th grade, it was fairly common to have gotten some headiepoo or potentially have smashed sumthin. At the very least you had gotten a whiff of the good stuff. High School was an all out free for all. Coincidentally I went to a public elementary school and a lot of people there came out of single family homes or had rough situations. Middle school had a similar mix of folks. Not sure if this influenced things, but I would speculate that it did.
I’ve told people the age at which I snatched a v-card and lost mine and mouths have dropped. I thought it was normal. A lot of this stuff just seems relative to where you live and who you’re around.
@Slim Jackson,
The same thing was happening in black private schools too. It probably wasn’t as frequent as public school but it happened.
@Slim Jackson, Last week I was informed by this dude that I was with in college that I had deflowered him. I was like WHAT!!!!! he was a senior! in college. We had a long a$$ conversation about it. But after I took the weekend to reflect upon it, it actually made me respect him more.
@Intellectual Hedonist, I’m mad the dude confessed years later that you snatched his v-card. That’s pretty funny.
I think that are relationships b/c women are no longer putting up with a man’s foolishness. I think through out time men have done the same stupidity that we do today. We cheat, we lie, we dont listen well, we dont speak well, we dont help out around the house, some of us are bad provider, etc. The difference between today and yesteryear is that a woman can go out and provide for herself and make her own way, she no longer needs a man. Back in the day, ppl (especially women) stayed in craptastic marriages due to finances.
Secondly, as a black man who played on the football team at a PWI (Go Quakers!) I have a keen understanding of what “hook up” means due to the many locker room stories. The term is definitely a 2520 term. It means any physical encounter with the opposite sex. Kissing, oral, vaginal, anal all included in the term hook up. So white boy would in the bar and he would say “yo i just hooked up with _____(insert name of random drunk pink toes)” and he would have meant that he kissed her. Thats the difference between black dudes and white dudes, I wasnt telling you I just kissed some broad, FCUK OUTTA HERE with that!!! If we just kissed, especially in college, we didnt do a damn thing. So I say all of this to say, that just because ppl are “hooking up” doesnt necessarily mean that they are having more sex.
Furthermore, the article is wrong because I have seen many a “hook up” turn into a relationship. Has no one ever seen what was intended to be a One Night Stand/mutual JO situation turn into a relationship? I have.
Lastly, I def know some young folk that are working hard to be in a relationship and they value those relationships.
@P.E.Y.S.O.,
Oh you UPenn boys….
what year? You might know my cousin.
And I agree with this
“I think through out time men have done the same stupidity that we do today. We cheat, we lie, we dont listen well, we dont speak well, we dont help out around the house, some of us are bad provider, etc. The difference between today and yesteryear is that a woman can go out and provide for herself and make her own way, she no longer needs a man. Back in the day, ppl (especially women) stayed in craptastic marriages due to finances.”
My godmother told me of how her papa was a rolling stone. Her parents were married 25 years ,before she had a stroke at 46. My godmother is convinced her mom died of a broken heart.
He would disappear for days at a time. She JUST found out (she’s 65, BTW) that she has 2 half brothers.
She never finished school herself and thus she had very few options but to stay in this marriage. That’s why she pressed my godmother to finish school.
@blackberry molasses, i’m fresh off the block, C/O 2008
@P.E.Y.S.O.,
woah, that made me feel old.
@blackberry molasses, u aint too old for me, we can still “hook up”. any of the definitions work for me
@P.E.Y.S.O.,
ummm…. married. and probably too much for you to handle. kthxbye.
**still e-lubs ya though**
@blackberry molasses, ur right but we can all dream too
@P.E.Y.S.O.
Fine…i’ll haunt your dreams. I don’t mind the sleep deprivation… really…
@P.E.Y.S.O.,
This is the post I agree with the most.
That article is way too broad, way too general to be upheld with any seriousness.
Peyso on the other hand just spoke the truth.
(and isn’t hooking up a tamer version of having a FWB?)
I think that are relationships b/c women are no longer putting up with a man’s foolishness. I think through out time men have done the same stupidity that we do today. We cheat, we lie, we dont listen well, we dont speak well, we dont help out around the house, some of us are bad provider, etc. The difference between today and yesteryear is that a woman can go out and provide for herself and make her own way, she no longer needs a man. Back in the day, ppl (especially women) stayed in craptastic marriages due to finances.
Secondly, as a black man who played on the football team at a PWI (Go Quakers!) I have a keen understanding of what “hook up” means due to the many locker room stories. The term is definitely a 2520 term. It means any physical encounter with the opposite sex. Kissing, o.ral, v.aginal, a.nal all included in the term hook up. So white boy would in the bar and he would say “yo i just hooked up with _____(insert name of random drunk pink toes)” and he would have meant that he kissed her. Thats the difference between black dudes and white dudes, I wasnt telling you I just kissed some broad, GTFCUK OUTTA HERE with that!!! If we just kissed, especially in college, we didnt do a damn thing. So I say all of this to say, that just because ppl are “hooking up” doesnt necessarily mean that they are having more sex.
Furthermore, the article is wrong because I have seen many a “hook up” turn into a relationship. Has no one ever seen what was intended to be a One Night Stand/mutual JO situation turn into a relationship? I have.
Lastly, I def know some young folk that are working hard to be in a relationship and they value those relationships.
Moderation hates me again today
@P.E.Y.S.O.,
“insert name of random drunk pink toes”
LMAO!
@laylah,
“Pink toes” sounds sooo gross! Ewww! If I had some pink toes get close to me, I know I’d vomit and pass out. I hate other people’s feet, but some 2520 feet would be the death of me.
In all honesty: I’m probably not the best equipped for relationships. I wouldn’t say it is selfishness (although part of it is because I’ve had to do most things and endure most hardships without anyone). As I’ve said before, sex is waaaaay easier to get than it was before, which kind of defeats the purpose for being in a relationship if you don’t have to commit. I know…shallow thinking but I’m an ignorant male.
My experience in relationships is rather limited due to the fact that I have always been a charming yet awkward kid. When I finally got grown I saw nothing exciting, interesting or attractive about relationships. As a matter of fact…they look almost painful from the outside looking in. I guess that’s why I’ve been a perpetual bachelor…something just never seemed “normal” about finding that one person to spend a premium of time with. Not a once.
@CPT Callamity,
yeah, i feel you. i used to feel this exact same way…until i turned 14.
lol…seriously though, do you come from a family where positive romantic relationships exist?
@The Champ,
Funny about 14.
And for your next question…NO, unless you’re talking the real old heads. My father and mother were divorced when I was young. That old school love that everyone romanticizes isn’t something that I see less and less of.
@CPT Callamity,
That old school love that everyone romanticizes isn’t something that I see less and less of.
yeah, i asked because i can imagine how tough it would be to envision a positive relationship ive youve never personally seen one.
@The Champ,
Very true. If there isn’t any concrete example of how a relationship can help you and make you grow, it might be hard to want one.
Personally, I have seen how much more being a “2″ can add to being a “1″, and I am willing to chance it with the right “1″.
@The Champ,
Those relationships were far and few between. Now all I see is people who are on their 2nd or 3rd marriage and finally got it right.
After the divorce, I hardly saw my father truly happy again. He was happy he had my sister and I, but he wanted a family and it tore him apart afterwards. I also realized the world is not sympathetic to divorced men regardless.
@CPT Callamity,
Yeah, thats true. And its especially less sympathetic towards fathers. I think in most cases divorce is usually viewed as caused by male actions or initiated by men. At least thats the way I’ve seen it with my own family, friends, etc.
@Dom,
The statistics surrounding divorce are pretty straightforward: 70% of the divorces are initiated by women. I have never met a woman that has to pay child support (even if she made more) or alimony. The courts are designed to be very brutal and uncaring to most men regardless of the outcome. That’s why if I have to go through with any of that stuff…I’m going through it very cautiously. I do have a lot to lose if something goes wrong…especially my sanity.
@CPT,
I know some a woman who is afraid of divorcing her husband now because she knows he would take her for alimony. The situation totally sucks.
I explored this hooking up question a bit back. I try to avoid posting links, but check out this post if folks have time:
http://www.threewaystotakeit.com/what-is-hooking-up/
@Slim Jackson,
interesting take and sh*t
The moderation filter on here is mad sensitive btw.lol.
@Slim Jackson,
The moderation filter on here is mad sensitive btw.lol.
i bet you wont say that to our moderation filter’s face!!!
@The Champ,
i bet you wont say that to our moderation filter’s face!!!
The simplicity of that statement makes it hilarious.
First and foremost, Thanks for the shout out! I’m glad I sent an article that will hopefully spark discussion.
I’m still trying to figure out how I feel about this, but I definitely think this is THE topic for our generation in terms of relationships. The article was on point to me, and it seems to capture so many of the questions you ask here.
I think the constant barrage of new sexual partners makes it more difficult to see the value of sticking it out with any one person. In the long run, I think people will still flow to having long term one-on-one relationships, but it will take longer for them to reach that maturity level.
@Dom,
no problem and sh*t, dom. keep em coming
@Dom, I agree with you.
I also think that the pressure on the younger generation is immense to follow the crowd into “Hooking Up”, and if they only knew that NOT everyone was hooking up it could turn things around for them.
first of all, does anyone find it ironic that the man who wrote an article about hooking up has the last name “blow”???
anyways, my school was mostly white and the black male population was reduced to the football and basketball team. among the large white population of my school, “hooking up” was a common thing. it happened ALL THE TIME and was accepted by both parties as something cool to do. for us black kids however, it was a little different. hooking up did happen of course, but when it happened, it was slightly taboo. the guy was given his props, the girl necessarily wasn’t looked down upon by her friends, but she was looked down upon by other girls and was looked at by the guy and his friends as someone he could never wife up. why wife her up? no point in it, she’s easy and he already got what he wanted.
it’s sad, because most women at the college age hook up because they eventually want to be in a relationship. they are not yet at that point where they have fully embraced their sexuality or are trying to maintain/get their groove back like stella. someone like stella, an older woman, would be able to “hook up” without it being emotionally damaging to her. A 18-19 year old girl, however, i don’t think so.
my homies from school would actually play the ish out of the girls they were hooking up with, right in front of their faces. one of my boys, db, actually said in front of his new jo, “no one wants to take a girl like that home… these girls are stupid… they think they can give it up and that’s gonna make me wanna be with them…” the girl continued to hook up with him and got mad when he absolutely refused to be in a relationship with her.
stupid.
like most things, this goes back to how you were raised. it is soooo important so instill self-worth into your teenaged daughter, so important. from a young age, my mother taught me that i am as precious as silver and gold… don’t go randomly giving yourself to people because there is a 99% percent chance that he doesn’t deserve the gift.
@laylah,
Am I the only one who sees any value in letting kids learn some of this on their own? The young girl you spoke of was getting played, but she may learn her lesson. It might not be immediate, but eventually we realize that sharing our goodies with guys who don’t give a dayum about us (even if we don’t give a dayum about them either) starts to feel like banging your head on a brick wall – repeatedly.
@Lil’T,
but wouldn’t it have been better if it could have all been avoided? she learned a valuable lesson, but at what price?
@laylah,
If she’s still healthy, a very low price indeed. Better to make the stupid mistakes early…
@Lil’T,
But is it worth the damage though? I have seen too many women never recovering from bruised and damaged egos who ended up in extremelylowselfesteemville. And it’s a cycle that can be very hard to break. Some (hopefully most) will recover, but most would stay there and even be physically damaged (read end up with an std).
I have an ex-colleague that I met at one of my other companies. The girl is beautiful, extremely smart and has her career life down pat. However, on a personal, relationship and emotional level, she was a mess. Complete and total mess. She did the whole sleeping with athletes in college (it seems to be the “thing” to do in Texas) in the hopes of I don’t know what. She is 28 and has NEVER been in a real long term relationship. She has had a series of hookups gone wrong.
At the core of her issue? An extremely low self-esteem (I have even recommanded counseling).
It breaks my heart to see her constantly drown in that sea of drama and unhealthy behaviors, but it seems like the hole has already been dug too deep.
Parents need to instill self-esteem in their children as early and as often as possible. It’s crucial, especially for little girls.
@Ms. Sula,
“Parents need to instill self-esteem in their children as early and as often as possible. It’s crucial, especially for little girls.”
This is so true. A good base is important in making the right decisions – but it doesn’t guarantee that you won’t make any mistakes. I would say that my folks were good about making sure my self esteem was high, but that wasn’t my problem when I was younger. I thought I was a superstar at 5 yrs old! They raised me right and were married until my father passed. That didn’t prevent me from making (multiple) mistakes. I wasn’t listening to them at the time but I heard them. And when I fouled up I at least knew that I didn’t have to STAY fouled up….
I just think that the ones who want better will find a way to get it. Emotional darwinism.
@Lil’T,
Trust me, Lil’ T, I am sure that’s why you were able to bounce back from your mistakes. Because the foundation was there.
We are humans. We’ll make mistakes. But when you do know and do believe that you’re special, it’s easier to learn and grow from those mistakes. To actually recognize them as mistakes, you have to have that template. Else, it will all seem like normal behavior to you.
All that to say that a healthy dose of self-esteem is mandatory while navigating the madness of this insane world.
@Ms. Sula,
amen for cruel parents who tell us “no” at every turn!
@laylah, it is soooo important so instill self-worth into your teenaged daughter
I couldn’t agree more!!! My mom and dad taught me my self-worth when I was young and instilled that in me growing up, so that’s why I never put up with bs in relationships. They also were my example of what love looks like. If my dad wasn’t at work, he was home with us and made family his top priority. My mom was the same way. They cared about each other very much and would do anything for each other. That’s why it’s so important for parents to set a good example for their kids because actions speak a lot louder than words….
as a “kid” (ie. still in college and whatnot) i think that the hook-up is a big part of being young and not wanting to be tied down. it’s definitely not a phenomenon reserved just to the 2520s here, a large proportion of the black people i know randomly hook-up with people on the regular from bars/parties/econ class. yes, the last does happen. and no, i won’t expound.
one thing i’ve noticed about the hook-up is this: while white people and black men in general keep the “no strings attached” end of this bargain up, some black women try to turn the ish from just s3x to a relationship – in other words, making the transition from being his h* to his wife. and many a black man i know has claimed relationship entrapment on this point… and ended up hooking up with some random becky. or perhaps a su ling. and then all kinds of screaming/beating down/make up chex takes place before eventually the relationship comes to a sad end, with salty looks being thrown at every potluck/lecture hall/gym session.
my point is this: the hook-up is one of those things that makes the college experience even more unique and illustrates the way that it is a vortex detached in many ways from the “real world”. you can hook-up with a TA and still see each other in class two days after and act like nothing happened, cos after you get that A at the end of semester, who cares? you probably wont’ see them again anyway. i’m not sure if it is affecting young people’s ability to form a committed relationships… i see plenty of people in relationships, 90% which began as a hook-up, and many of these work out well. others end up breaking up, probably because one party isn’t really ready for that level of commitment because they realise that they’re pretty young (21) to be on that whole border-line marriage tip (which is where a lot of relationships end up heading towards here, usually propelled by one person, not both). the important thing is being able to make the distinction between “just s3x” and the meaningful sh*t…. don’t hook up with the dude you’ve been facebook-stalking for 8 weeks and whose kids you’ve been fantasising about having, because once “feelings” get involved, it moves out of the hook-up zone and that’s where problems begin (assuming both parties aren’t on the same page about the situation).
@puff,
“one thing i’ve noticed about the hook-up is this: while white people and black men in general keep the “no strings attached” end of this bargain up, some black women try to turn the ish from just s3x to a relationship – in other words, making the transition from being his h* to his wife. and many a black man i know has claimed relationship entrapment on this point… and ended up hooking up with some random becky. or perhaps a su ling. and then all kinds of screaming/beating down/make up chex takes place before eventually the relationship comes to a sad end, with salty looks being thrown at every potluck/lecture hall/gym session. ”
i had to repost this because i agree with this whole damn paragraph.
and let’s add the library, the cafeteria, and the bookstore to the above mentioned locations….
@puff,
“…while white people and black men in general keep the “no strings attached” end of this bargain up, some black women try to turn the ish from just s3x to a relationship – in other words, making the transition from being his h* to his wife. and many a black man i know has claimed relationship entrapment on this point…”
I would dare say this is because white women tend to be “looser” than black women. Blacks overall are more conservative when it comes to s3x. Which has been both a good and bad thing for us.
@PBG,
I would dare say this is because white women tend to be “looser” than black women.
eh. can’t agree with this one.
@The Champ,
I can. Have you ever seen HBO/Showtime/Skinemax late at night? Got white folk dressing up like horses and riding each other around a stable outside and sh*t. NNTAWWT. Black people aren’t opposed to doing wacky stuff – but white folk don’t mind putting it out in the open.
@Lil’T,
“Black people aren’t opposed to doing wacky stuff – but white folk don’t mind putting it out in the open.”
but its still occuring in both situations… so that doesn’t make anyone looser than the other, correct?
@laylah,
hmmm. maybe they’re not looser – maybe we’re more hypocritical…
naaaahhhhh!! I can’t even figure out how they come up with some of that stuff. If you see me at some “snuggles” convention wearing a bunny costume and looking for a giant plush carrot – just snatch my black card and beat me til I’m unconcious.
@Lil’T, If I catch in that costume, O I’ll beat u alright
@Lil’T,
If you see me at some “snuggles” convention wearing a bunny costume and looking for a giant plush carrot – just snatch my black card and beat me til I’m unconcious.
im crying over here
@Lil’T, lol!
@laylah,
The fact that they let it all hang out is what makes it looser. Nasty flaxen-haired temptresses!!
@The Champ,
Me neither. It’s a myth, and a game of numbers.
And what makes one loose? Sleeping with the guy with no strings attached, or sleeping with the guy in the hopes of tying some strings?
In either case, you slept with the guy –> loose (if that’s what we want to call it).
@Ms. Sula, In either case, you slept with the guy –> loose (if that’s what we want to call it).
touche.point.set.game.and.match
@puff,
LMAO @ su ling!
If you let my friends tell it… My family was the Cosby’s reincarnated…I however never saw it. Anywhoodle… I grew up with both parents in the home, both parents very religious and all that. We were taught:
-that sex was something only married people go to do cuz that’s what God said.
- that having a boyfriend did not mean the same thing as marriage
-that having a boyfriend was a privilege and not your right.
-that coming home with a baby meant you lost all rights to deciding your future…no questions asked and no rebuttals warranted. You would either go to college and dare you make anything less than a B, or you signed up for Uncle Sam and sucked it up. Either way, when you turn 18…that baby was going wherever you were going cuz mama done had all her chillins and she don’t want no more!
My parents never missed an opportunity to make sure we knew/understood our value as people, women (and men for the baby brother) and as family.
When it came time to talk about sex, it was a medical lesson followed by a discussion of the psychological impacts, social stigmas, ended with a bible study lesson.
So when I got to undergrad… I was known as the stuck up girl from Cali b/c I refused to let dudes talk any kinda way to me, I didn’t get all stupid cuz some senior was all in my face and I refused every invitation to a movie night not in a movie theater lol.
I refuse to lower my standards for the men of today. I refuse b/c so many other women have already changed/reconfigured/lowered/ adjusted their standards to where there’s no need for me to make mine budge at all. If you are going to come at me…you will come correct b/c when i come at you, that’s how I’m coming.
I’m single now… a mix of choice and force. I’m not looking to be in a relationship right now either. Personally… I’m not in the correct headspace to deal with another relationship. I recognize this about myself and am living accordingly. When I’m ready, I’ll put myself back out there. But this “hooking up” thang… since when did “hooking up” mean more than just hanging out?
I feel so old cuz I didn’t even know the definition had changed… I mean dang, I don’t watch MTV like I used to but I don’t think of myself as “out of touch”….
If definitions have to change…someone should remove the word “caking” from existence…. I really hate that term!!!
@Ro,
“I refuse to lower my standards for the men of today. I refuse b/c so many other women have already changed/reconfigured/lowered/ adjusted their standards to where there’s no need for me to make mine budge at all. If you are going to come at me…you will come correct b/c when i come at you, that’s how I’m coming.”
go on, go on! i completely agree. you have a very good head on your shoulders!
your family sounds very similar to mine… for that, i offer up my sympathies (j/k)
@laylah, Sympathies taken and give…lol…j/k.
@Ro,
Good way to look at it. I’m just realizing in recent years just how important those annoying speeches and nagging were. At the time I thought they were insane and hell bent on ruining my social life. Which is funny considering how nerdy I was (am).
@Lil’T, Those conversations still come to this day! Don’t let us mention a new “boo”… Its the 6th grade all over again but more in detail and more personal experience added for flava!
I’m seeing a therapist about those personal experiences…and by seeing a therapist I mean blogging.
@Lil’T,
My mom used to have Socratic Sessions with me and my friends on being moral upstanding young ladies. Complete with Bible Study. She could also sniff out the ‘problem children’ in our clique and was very adept at predicting their futures. She was right… the ones she said would be on that ho sh*t are the same ones that currently “suck at life” and these girls grew up the the suburbs in good homes.
@Ro,
Did you grow up at my house???Your upbringing was EERILY similar to my own.
And the lessons learned are countless (even if at 14, you were ready to murder your father who would not let you stay out past 8pm… on the weekend… *smh*)
@Ms. Sula,
Guuurrlll……my parents were the King and Queen of NO. Convo went somethign like this:
Young Lil’T: “Mom, can I….”
Mom: “Did you ask your father?”
Lil’T: “Ummm, not yet. I saw you first.”
Mom: “Go ask your father. I’ll say yes if he does.”
Lil’T: “So Dad, can I….”
Dad: “Did you ask your mother?”
Lil’T: “She said to ask you.”
Dad:”No, then. Unless your mother says yes.”
Lil’ T (exasperated): “She said she would say yes if you did”
Dad: “Well, I’m not saying yes unless she does.”
And around we go until said event has passed. They played this whack azz shill game on me all through school.
@Lil’T, damn was your dad’s name Angel (I often wonder if my dad led a double life and had another family somewhere) cause this sounds like what went on in my house too.
@Lil’T,
I hated that mess…especially during the age of the “slumber party/sleepover”. Man, I’d be all excited, running home on friday… go in the kitchen/living room/bedroom and ask my momma if I can stay the night over my friends house or she can stay the night at ours….
Never ended well…lol. My daddy instituted a 3 day rule. “All slumber party/sleepovers must be preapproved 3 days prior to the date of said event if not, don’t even bother asking!”
@Ro,
my mom never even LET me participate in slumber parties that didn’t involve me staying with my cousins.
Her reasoning- I don’t know the MEN/TEENAGE BOYS in that house.
@blackberry molasses, lol…that’s messed up. In mom’s defense, none of my female friends had brothers our age or older ones that lived at home. Odd, I never noticed that til now…. he he he. I’m sure had they had brothers/nephews/cousins that were my age living there, the answer would have been No…everytime!
Shoot… I spent the night at my friends houses more than my cousins houses…so what does that tell you!?!
@Lil’T,
WoW! And there I thought I was the only one.
Those were torture on my burgeoning social life and all-aroung social rep.
On monday, you’ll get to school and everybody would be yapping about the event and there you are trying to be the cool kid who didn’t get to go anywhere this week-end. I remember my cousins and I coming up with “We don’t really like crowded places that much” to make up for the fact that we never had the chance to go anywhere… Trying to reverse psychologize the school Cool Police.
Memories!
@Ms. Sula,
You were smarter than I was – I just told people my evil parents wouldn’t let me out. Those horrible, mean-spirited, don’t-want-me-to-have-a-life demons!
Good grief, I was a pain in the arse as a teenager.
@Ms. Sula, Curfew?? What’s that? We moved around alot so I hardly went outside. My parents would force me to go outside most days…and I’d be back hours before the street lights came on. By the time I got to my senior year, my parents were so happy I was getting out the house they didn’t even bother giving me a curfew. Like when prom came around… I was the only one out of all my friends who didn’t have to be home til Sunday night…prom was on Saturday. I came home though, an hour before church, the momster let me sleep in though.
@Ro,
See, I was (and still am) a party girl at heart. Very social in nature. So those curfew hours were killing me. Especially since I had to socialite rep to worry about.
I was in 6th grade I knew kids who had gotten it in already.
——-> I actually remember being in girl scouts at this age and a couple of the girls in my troop were having s.e.x…..all I could remember was asking” Aren’t you a little young for that?”
mind you, this was only about 10 years ago. I don’t even wanna think about what they are doing at that age today.
@Kelly,
I know right! i lost my v-card at age 15 and most of my friends had been getting it in for YEARS, and 15 was way too young in my opinion, craziness!
@Relax, Relate, Alise, I was 15 too, but I was a junior in High School even so, I still think it was too early too
@Intellectual Hedonist,
I blame old timers w/ their shorter life expectancey. Them and Jim Jones.
@WuDaMan, yea Jim Jones and Mike Jones as well…almost forgot souljia boy
@Intellectual Hedonist,
i see that this is the “easy” wing of vsb, lol. maybe ya’ll should have your own table at the vsb bbq as well
@The Champ, I can’t wait to see the seating cards for this VSB bbq
@Intellectual Hedonist,
well…I maintained my v card all the way through high school,primarily because I was scared of my parents. All my friends thought I was crazy but I swear fo goodness I thought they would be able to sniff out the fact that I had had sex.h3ll,I was petrified of telling them I had a boyfriend and this was in 2006!Yea, I would have been whupped right.oh and,My dad physically curses out soulja boy whenever possible.idk.
@Kelly, how do u physically curse someone out?
@Intellectual Hedonist,
let see..
The IG Table-headed by Luvvie
The ‘Think About Your Lifespace” Table–headed by Gem
The Sagacious Table- presided over by PBG
help me out here people…
@blackberry molasses,
Thug Table, presided over by Overit, the resident VSB Thug Misses
@blackberry molasses,
The Hosh*t table will be presided over by me, and we will be singing an Erykah Badu medley with liturgists and a sign language lady.
@blackberry molasses,
Will there be incense burning @ the Ho Sh*t table too? And can I have dual seating @ this shin-dig?
@blackberry molasses,
Can some of these tables overlap? Several people belong in 2 or more tables.
people can have reserved seats at more than one table, but they cannot preside over more than one table.
Me and SG will make sure the tables are fabulously bedecked with gold stars and Diva Dust ™
@The Champ,
The ho-sh*t table…. me likey!
@Intellectual Hedonist, In my defense I was with my first for 14 years….
Y’all make me feel like the latest bloomer ever – I didn’t start til I was in my 20′s. That’s when Lil’ T’s freaky was born…
le sigh. that bamma looked like a cuter version of Chingy and could do pushups with me sitting on his back…..
@Lil’T,
Well, Lil’ T at least you were mentally ready. Right?
I was 18 and it was a parting gift. I felt I had to give him a lil’ something on my way out (to greener pastures) after he diligently waited on my ass for 2 years…
. The things we do. *smh*
@Ms. Sula,
hmmph – mentally ready to get my absolute freak on. At that age, the v-card feels like wearing a wet mink coat in the middle of a Texas July.
@Lil’T, I waited until college…. walking in mamma’s house reaking of sin and shame… uh hayle to the naw! When they say “mama knows” That chick really be knowing!
*still finds myself walking in the crib humble and trimbling from time to time.*
I’m too lazy to respond too errthang I’ve read. So… Imo say..
PBG… I oughta quit you for the Bethlehem Fire Church. You taking me on an IG tour of DC upon my arrival in January. I must see Austin & Royster’s Funegro home too.
Mono is the disease of melanin-lacking people.
Princess Duvet – Champ ain’t take no ego pills. Those r called “Head Swell Be Gone”
Champ – I’m still proud that I ruined your toast. It’s in my top 5 accomplishments of ’08.
@Luvvie,
I hope we see a black squirrel on the way to the funegro home, so we can finally put all these doubters to rest on the subject. THEY.ARE.REAL.
@PBG,
why do people even doubt their existence? Squirrelous Negronutus…look it up!
@Lil’T,
“Squirrelous Negronutus”
CTFU
@PBG, you mean like this….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Blacksquirrelrev.jpg
@Luvvie,
You’re going to be in DC in january?
@kamakula,
I sure will grace DC with my presence. Inauguration time is gonna be popping!!! I’mo send out the IG alert (Color: Houndstooth). RING THE ALARM!!
@Luvvie,
LMAO @ “Houndstooth”!
I think a lot of consideration should go towards teachers. Those and parents should split the blame 25/25%. The other 50% should go towards the church or lack their of. I aint no church basher or anything close, but I do believe that I would not have lost my V card at the young age of 15 if I had spent more time in the church seeing hearing the word of God and listening from Godly, righteous individuals tell me how they wish they would have waited. You can also blame the church for souljia boy, mike jones, Bill Clinton, Katrina, and a million T.D Jakes books that al read basically the same. j/k about the last part cause dude write some okay material. My thinking goes that if people had their kids in church more (and not in those huge mega church’s where you cant tell the sinner from the saint) then their bad ass kidz would think twice before sticking their little wang wang in Suzies pu tang (without a condom if I may add).
Thats a subject that somebody NEEDs to really address (forgive me if it has already been brought on VSB before b/c Im new to the site) why don’t young cats use condoms anymore and why are young girls okay with it?!?!
@docdj23, “My thinking goes that if people had their kids in church more (and not in those huge mega church’s where you cant tell the sinner from the saint) then their bad ass kidz would think twice before sticking their little wang wang in Suzies pu tang (without a condom if I may add).”
I agree that kids need to be more involved in church but you can’t lay %50 of the blame on them. Preachers kids live in church and they the main ones running around like chickens with they wings cut off. The size of the church doesn’t matter…it’s whether or not the child receives what’s being taught… regardless. It depends on who’s teaching it as well. Kids tend to pay more attention to peers and people who they think… “get where they’re coming from” not someone they deem “old and out of touch”.
On this subject: “why don’t young cats use condoms anymore and why are young girls okay with it?!?!”
I wanna know the same dang on thang! What the hayle is wrong wit you silly rabbits letting tom, dick and harry (pun intended) slide his unprotected man parts in all ya nooks and crannies!!! STI’s, STD’s, AIDS, and the worst of all… KIDS is real in these streets young blood…. and I don’t know who (I blame Jim Jones and Soulja Boy) told you being a ‘baby daddy’ or a ‘baby mama’ at 15 is cute…that sh*t ain’t cute by any means. ANY! Hard…hayle yes, difficult… definitely, financially taxing….freakin right, emotionally draining…depends, but on a 15 year old… I would think so.
I don’t want kids but if I did have em… they all wearing chastity belts and I’ll give up the key and the decryption code on my death bed!!