Let’s HOPE HE CAN!
As America and Washington, DC, gear up for the inauguration and the next four years of a Barack Obama presidency, we’re mired in a recession of tremendous proportions. Blow.er.
Well, the economy is SO BAD, people can’t even afford to get a damn divorce anymore!
To wit:
With nearly one in six homes worth less than the mortgage owed on it, according to Moody’s Economy.com, divorce lawyers and financial advisors throughout the country say the logistics of divorce have been turned around.
“We used to fight about who gets to keep the house,” said Gary Nickelson, president of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers. “Now we fight about who gets stuck with the dead cow.”
As a result, divorce has become more complicated and often more expensive, with lower prospects for money on the other side. Some divorce lawyers say that business has slowed down, or that clients are deciding to stay together because there are no assets left to help them start over.
If that ain’t a reason to be ready for Bush to get.the.f*ck.on. then I don’t know what is. It’s so bad, folks are being forced to stay together because they’re essentially not worth crap and nobody wants to not be worth crap. It’s like, craptastic.
In a normal economy, couples typically build equity in their homes, then divide that equity in a divorce, either after selling the house or with one partner buying out the other’s share. But after the recent boom and bust cycle, more couples own houses that neither spouse can afford to maintain, and that they cannot sell for what they owe on it. For couples already under stress, the family home has become a toxic asset.
You know what must suck? Paying a $350K mortgage on a home that’s now only worth $280K. But you know what sucks more than that AND Olivia Fox? A de-valued home AND marriage and having no way in Hell of getting out of either. And don’t get it twisted, these couples aren’t going to be forced to “work it out” and continue on with their marriage. If anything, I’m guessing people will begin to hate eachother even more (assuming its reached non-amicable proportions) because not only is the love and thrill gone, but there’s no real money anymore either. No lovin’ and no dividends?
Somebody might get OJ’d.
I’m not an advocate for divorce, but I’m also not the biggest advocate for marriage (though I’m all for anybody who’s really ready for it and is committed to staying that way). Though I recognize the advantages of marriage, there’s a reason so many people end up in divorce: I don’t think its hard enough to get married. All you basically have to do is show up somewhere and you can lock yourself into the worst situation of your life. Word to my brother. I think if folks really had to prove to one another that they actually wanted to be married for the right reasons, marriages would probably last longer.
But as it is, that’s not the case right now.
And as that is, I do happen to believe that sometimes, two people really don’t belong together and when that time comes, it just may be necessary to sever ties. If you didn’t try to make it work, well bully on you; however, that’s not my fight. But imagine that you’ve exhausted all outlets short of BBJ himself coming down and fixing it and you’ve both resolved that its best to go your separate ways…
…but the economy has made it so that you can’t even afford to move on. Let’s just hope we don’t hear about people flying off of balconies in the near future.
Word to Stanley Reimer.
We thought we needed Obama to forge the road for Black people, and we think he just might do wonders for Black love, but the economy needs him for more than just that. We need him to help restore order to the marital order of things.
We need Obama to restore our 50 percent divorce rate so people can be happy again.
Obama, are you up for it?
Are you?!?!
-VSB P aka THE ARSONIST aka TANGLE JIG P
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{ 305 comments… read them below or add one }
I didn’t even read the post yet! I just wanted to be FIRST!! My 2009 is starting RIGHT!! YES!!! Now to read the post…
@pgh muse,
Aight, this ‘first’ business is getting a little ri-gatdang-diculous. People aren’t even reading the post and making relevant comments. I swear, the person who does the first “First!!!” post is going have to take up permanent residence in the Sat Down Corner.
@blackberry molasses, i agree.
awwww Liz, good to see ya!
@Gem of the Ocean, Hahah thanks!!! I be lurkin.
@blackberry molasses,
Bwahahaha… AWWW BB Mo’! I don’t be on here late all the time!! Can i get a pass for tonight?? Please?
@pgh muse,
yes. just one though
@ the first commentary,
I personally think it’s all in good fun and would be crazy flattered if people stayed up to try to comment first on my blog… or got in line… is my comment decreasing bandwidth space or something? this is a BLOG… a very lighthearted, playful blog at times… just my opinion. my .02…
@pgh muse,
I personally think it’s all in good fun and would be crazy flattered if people stayed up to try to comment first on my blog
i actually agree with you. the “first” sh*t doesnt bother me at all
@The Champ,
thanks and shyt, The Champ. Can I get a free VSB tshirt or something?
@pgh muse,
no
@ The Champ,
lol… say it again!
@pgh muse, the champ and i talked about this before and though it ain’t that big a deal, i’m not sure how flattered anybody should be about it.
for one, it aint like folks are lining up to be the first person to READ and then offer a substantive comment, its just lining up to be first, period. and it has nothing to do specifically with VSB.com. this just so happens to be the blog that you’re frequenting to do it on. it could just as easily be any other blog. being first has nothing to do with the post at hand. so for me, i can’t say i’m flattered by it being as it being first has nothing to do with the posts we even write. being first is just something folks race to do…just because. though it doesnt take anything away from the blog, it doesn’t add anything either.
it just is.
you’re right though, the blog is playful and lighthearted, so it aint killing anybody. but i’d be careful to try to attach much deeper meaning to folks attempts to be “first”. its just being “first” for “first’s sake”.
@Panama Jackson,
I’m saying PJ, whoever’s lined up to be first is getting u hits, which increases your blogs popularity, and the potential for ad revenue… I’m not trying to attach a deeper meaning. I’m saying I would be completely flattered by the popularity of my blog… and even more that people make an effort to participate. In whatever respect that they do. Isn’t a “first” post better than no post at all? Someone may come out of lurking (and I think it has happened since I’ve been following this blog) to post first. I think it’s cute. And it’s not like there aren’t plenty of substantive comments. This is once again just my .02.
@ pgh muse, i seriously doubt folks lining up to say “first” is doing anything for our ad revenue. look, am i flattered by the popularity of our blog? of course, and i thank everybody for coming thru; without you all our site wouldn’t be squat. and granted, there are much bigger issues in the world to deal with. but since this has come up as a topic of discussion, let me ask you this:
what exactly IS the point of being first, if all you have to say is “first”?
@ Panama,
There really isn’t much of a point. Personally it’s just shyts and giggles to me… when i’m on VSB honestly i’m usually procrastinating and wasting time. It’s a diversion from working. Doing what I should be doing. Although I find VSB to be a very thought provoking diversion at times, at other times it’s pure sugar… just for fun. That’s the point to me. It was like a little race and I won… nothing more, nothing less.
@ Panama,
I know this is your blog, and everything, but I don’t understand why folks that that so seriously. Like it’s offensive or something…
@pgh muse, personally, it annoys me. that doesn’t mean i’m gonna ask folks to stop doing it. it is what it is. it happens on every somewhat popular site at some point. like i said before, there are much bigger fish to fry. i just wanted to understand it b/c i really just don’t see the point. but it is what it is. c’est la vie.
carry on.
@ Panama,
Now that I know u find it to be annoying I won’t do it anymore. If ever I wait again for a post at 12:00am, i will make sure that I read it thoroughly before I comment. I have been chastened.
@blackberry molasses,
See that is all I been saying all along. But NO! I was being a wet blanket and sh*t!
just cause you first don’t mean you are saying sh*t
@Intellectual Hedonist, now dayumit I call foul yall trippin on saying Im first and not all of the other off topic foolishness that abounds…thats some whos on first ho sh!t if I ever heard it…LMAO……
@blackberry molasses,
How about we make a new rule. Say for instance you can’t claim “first” unless you read and comment on the topic at hand. I think that’s fair
@eff yo couch
Or not claiming first at all…….I believe we’re all rather smart around here and can see whose comment was first. ha
@V Renee, right? i guess im more annoyed that the first comment says FIRST and nothing else. Like, at least say something in your comment relevant to something going on–besides the obvious.
@Liz,
I heart you…. that is all I was saying like 2 months ago.
ok maybe I exagerate when I say two months I lost all track of time, being on vacation for 3 weeks will do that to a person
@eff yo couch,
hmmm… I’m gonna defer to Liz on this one. What say you, oh mighty site admin?
@blackberry molasses, i secretly plot on the people who come in here screaming first and don’t say anything else. u know, one day u might come by and ur comment’s been moved to last….or it’s edited
….hahaha. but the champ won’t let me. punk.
@Liz,
That’s cause Champ is a “Salt Thrower”
Just throwin mad salt in your game. Punk indeed.
*sticks out tongue at Champers*
@blackberry molasses, pretty much. lol.
@blackberry molasses,
the champ just has bigger fish to fry, like who the hell has been stealing my sharpened pencils from my desk.
@blackberry molasses,
Champ a salt thrower, hmmm Champie can you come throw some of that on my wlakway and steps they’re a little icy.
I know nothing of your sharpened pencils whenever Im at your desk there is this other chick lurking though
@blackberry molasses, hater
@Please Excuse Your Significant Other,
You know you love me. Smooches!
What is the point of saying first? I thought the point of reading the blog is to hmm read the blog?
Apparently not first. That’s what I get for hesitating. Close though…..very close.
@Grace,
well, welcome and sh*t anyway
@Grace,
I’m gonna jump on the champ’s ‘anyway’ bandwagon…welcome! *gold stars* but pipe up and sh!t. comment and join the tomfoolery. lol.
As the semi-famous song goes “It’s Cheaper to Keep Her”…
But, yes it is just too easy for couples to “tie dat knot”,( read: Vegas, et. al.) the problem is when folks think they are in-lubbb, they ain’t gonna respond to rational suggestions and look at reality to save themselves from themselves. Don’t believe me, try to convince my 23 yr. old little cousin that the ninja blantantly cheating on her with her homegirl ain’t the man for her, she’ll try to cut or tase you, smh…
@Relax, Relate, Alise,
i agree. Hormones can definitely cloud judgement. Hormones mixed with good D* can be lethal!! Lawd… where’s the good D* police when u need them?!?!
@pgh muse,
“Lawd… where’s the good D* police when u need them?!?!”
Hanging out and getting donuts with the Ho Sh*t Police
@blackberry molasses,
Glazed Hot Sign Ho-Sh*t
ok, i aint even gonna start….
@Relax, Relate, Alise,
Handcuffed Ho Sh*t
Krispy Kreme Ho Sh*t
Brass Badge and Polyester Ho Sh*t
Dunkin’ Donuts coffee and a stakeout Ho Sh*t
Paddy Wagon Ho Sh*t… i need to go to bed… lol
No Sh*t Like Ho-Po-Po Sh*t Ho Sh*t
*dead*
@Relax, Relate, Alise, I totally agree plus mofos be confusing what love is anyway.. love means you love the pros and cons..you know the crust of a muthaf!@cka..LOL you know the good and bad and accept them.. its the mofos that only know the good..or only choose to believe the good that leads them down the path to marital woe..thinking that the marriage will fix errything that aint perfect.. ..I mean I feel like it need to be a age llimit and minimum required “together time” and six months of counseling before you are even considered for a license….
@Shay-d-lady,
“its the mofos that only know the good..or only choose to believe the good ”
I agree with this wholeheartedly. You get a pocket full of sunshine for that one!
@Relax, Relate, Alise,
“As the semi-famous song goes “It’s Cheaper to Keep Her”…”
It has to be the Johnnie Taylor version though…lmao
@miss t-lee,
And that ish has been in my head all day…
I am really too tired to comment coherently on this EXCELLENT post as it relates to marriage… i will just offer that the stimulus package that the Obama administration is putting together really has to put some money in the pocket of average, middle income Americans… Mo’ money, mo’ purchases, mo’ jobs, mo’ consumerism. That is the only way to keep America running. Otherwise we the people may have to look at changing our gluttonous (spellcheck?) American lifestyles, which to me is wholistically better, but that is a can of worms to discuss in another forum I think. Good night VSB.
@pgh muse,
Otherwise we the people may have to look at changing our gluttonous (spellcheck?) American lifestyles
you know, i was reading some argument somewhere that a recession would actually be the best thing for us, long-term, in that it would force us to change our habits
@The Champ,
I agree with this with all my heart and soul. Let Wall Street crumble… let it all fall down..
@pgh muse,
Everyone should google and watch “The Story of Stuff”… i would post a link but on the site u have to download it. It’s very informative about the hamsterwheel we’re on called life.
@The Champ, though i can understand that ideology in theory, it seems rather shortsighted. whereas increasing gas prices has caused people to change their driving habits, which in turn is a plus for the environment, a depleted economy does nothing in the long-run to really stabilize American habits. for one, people losing jobs isn’t a plus for society as it strains our already strained general welfare (not welfare as in welfare mom, but as in safety nets like medicare and social security), which increases crime, etc. there’s no benefit to a sinking ship since at some point, you have to pick up the pieces and rebuild the ship. it’s better if you get to it before its been demolished to 1000 pieces.
btw, i’m an economist. love me.
@Panama Jackson,
But instead of putting the money in the pockets of the general population, wouldn’t it have been better if he went ahead with his (alleged)original plan to spend it on Infrastructure? The new bailout program is talking about 300 Billions in Tax rebates for individuals and Tax cuts for corporations. I do think that that approach is rather shortsighted as we’ve seen the “success”(drooling with sarcasm) of the first Bush cosigned rebate package.
But I’m not an economist. Just an aficionado of all things economics. It’s ok to love me too.
@The Champ,
You know, I just read today that Larry Flint and Joe Francis are asking Congress for $5 billion to bail out the pron industry.
Pretty soon, errything gonna be gumbent controlled. Including our s3xual habits. Feels like 1984 (I love this book).
@blackberry molasses, i read that article. i wonder how many people actually think thats real. i spoke with a few people who were outraged and i couldn’t believe they were taking that seriously. lol.
yeah. BIG publicity stunt. ummm hello, it is Larry Flynt afterall. he just needs to draw attn to himself. not that anyone should have to look at the unfortunate frontal structure of his head.
@Gem of the Ocean,
“unfortunate frontal structure of his head.”
BBMo flatlines…..
noooooo BBMoooooo!! *gets defribrillator*
stand back ppl. i am not a medical doctor and have no idea what i’m doing. but i will save this woman!!!
@Panama Jackson,
I personally thought it was hilarious. I figure if they give money to pron, legalized s3x work and weed can’t be too far behind.
My only concern would be once they give it money, they will control it. They ain’t gonna give it carte blanche like they did to the banking industry. Because that would be CRAZY! LMAO
Ok, my previous comment was held for moderation. I don’t know why, so here it is again….
I definitely agree it is too easy for people to get married and it’s too easy for people to get divorced. The bad economy forcing couples to stay together will either force them to work through whatever problems they thought they had, and restore the marriage, or they will kill each other. Or they could do like this Cambodian couple.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/10/09/house.divided/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
@N.I.A.,
Funny stuff. I read about this a few months back and thought “Wow, he’s either super gangsta, or he has an unchecked mental disorder.”
Either way, his actions were funny as hell.
@N.I.A., I’m not sure if it’s forcing them to work out their problems. One of my closest friends is in this exact situation. He and his wife bought a home in 2005 and the value dropped by $150K. He wanted to leave her last year, but is staying until the house appreciates. He now really resents his marriage even more and barely acknowledges her and acts like a single man even they’re still married and living together.
@Leila,
I don’t think these bad economic times would really force anyone to want to work things out. Possible, maybe, but highly unlikely. If anything, it will exacerbate the problems already there.
Thing is, your friend should go ahead and leave that chick. His personal happiness and mental well-being is more important than that house.
@N.I.A. thinkingofamasterplan…., his happiness and well being might also be shot when he sees how little he gets for that house
@Please Excuse Your Significant Other,
true true….
@N.I.A., i don’t know if its too easy for people to get divorced. it may be too easy for people to decide to get divorced, but state laws are built to keep people married. and the legal process alone + the financial burden of divorce make it a difficult process. word to michael jordan and paul mccartney
hell you see Shaq decided to stay with Shaunee (sp?) after he realized what divorce would entail.
@Panama Jackson,
hell you see Shaq decided to stay with Shaunee (sp?) after he realized what divorce would entail.
considering what (supposedly) happened between them, this was one of the most surprising news stories of the year
@Panama Jackson, I agree that there are a lot of legalities that make divorce difficult. What I should have said was divorce is too easy of an option for people who would rather bail than work until you can’t work anymore. Marriage takes effort, and some times, people seek divorce too quickly
@N.I.A. thinkingofamasterplan…., It’s not that difficult if you do it in the DR. It takes 3 days…
I think if folks really had to prove to one another that they actually wanted to be married for the right reasons, marriages would probably last longer.
my thing is, many ppl think head over heels in love is requirement enough to get married. marriage is a business/economic partnership. so really, ppl shouldn’t be trying to marry anyone who hasn’t “proven they actually wanted to be married for the right reasons” (paraphrasing Peej). so if you understand marriage as the legally binding domestic/economic union that it is, the “right reasons” include the good, bad, and ugly side of finances, mortgages, health benefits, life insurance policies (in case things get REAL rough you might want to consider who you can COLLECT on that), etc…
in general, i think lots of ppl (this is me speculating given the number of young and old divorced ppl i know) don’t have thorough convos about marriage and ALL that it entails– from raising children (if children are indeed wanted by both ppl) to retirements plans to “negro is your credit score going to impact us refinancing our home?” and so on.
so though it may not be “hard enough to get married”, a successful marriage is going to take more than putting a ring on it, signing your names on a line, saying “i love you” and “i do”.
…maybe you should have to add in your “more ppl”. which would include some ho ppl. and an albino midget riding a unicorn galloping through diva dust ™ and glitter. while black squirrels crack open acorns in the background…
@Gem of the Ocean,
U have made great points Gem, I just wanted to say that I loved your commentary on yesterday’s topic.
awww thanks pookie poo!!
@Gem of the Ocean,
My pastor gave a sermon on this a couple of years ago and I think Gemmy you must of been there or maybe it was Peej because “marriage is a business/economic partnership” were the words he used. Right before he quoted scriture from the bible.
you are so right though, we focus on the emotional aspect of love without consideration for the reality of the situation
maybe i was there… maybe i wasn’t… lol i’ve heard some sermons on this too. i’ve also attended a young adult bible study that specifically focused on what makes marriages successful based on biblical principles. good stuff.
i guess being the daughter of parents who both had previous marriages, i am very encouraged NOT to be a divorcée (inshAllah) and have to get back in the marriage saddle and try again. plus i’ve never seen “love” overcome the true tests and trials that can weigh down on a marriage. ppl would rather (a) stick it out and be miserable for some one they once loved deeply or (b) get a divorce becuz they think love has been lost. either way– the reliance is on love. and to that i say a big WHAT’S LOVE GOT TO DO WITH IT?!?! sure, love is great!! but love clouds judgment and really it’s just an emotional state of being. it cannot substitute rational, logical, purposeful thought or action.
@Gem of the Ocean,
This is an interesting perspective. Which brings us to the question of whether it’s even realistic to expect a marriage to last a life time. Or are people better suited for being serial monogamists? Is the concept of a lifelong marriage outdated?
@pgh muse,
…my heart wants to say ‘no’, but when I think about all the couples I know that were married 20, 30 or 40 years and got divorced…it’s hard not to say ‘yes’.
ppl don’t keep jobs for a lifetime anymore…cars, houses or anything else that requires any kind of commitment. y should marriage be any different?
@Intellectual Hedonist,
“you are so right though, we focus on the emotional aspect of love without consideration for the reality of the situation”
People seem to focus so much on the wedding and forget that there’s a marriage to maintain thereafter! A divorce lawyer friend of mine once told me that the worst mistake people make is to marry only for love. Now, of course love is essential but people never consider whether they have the same goals (in life and in the marriage) amongst other things.
Just my 2 cents….
@Intellectual Hedonist, i’ve always felt that marriage was more of a business decision than a romantic one. romance can die, but bad business will kill you.
i’m all for the romanticized love for life and commitment that many people wish marriage was all about, but in truth, it’s so much more than just that. its just a merger of two prior separate business interests in hopes that their stock will do better together than it will do apart.
@Panama Jackson,
…nice metaphor.
@Panama Jackson,
a couple of weeks ago I was having this conversation with my girls and I concluded that I have done the relationship for love thing and honestly believe that the if I marry it will not necessarily be for Love. Do I hope that I am in love. Yes, but at this point in my life I have to look at things honestly and this whole looking at it from a business standpoint is probably going to be a better deal. Love will come.
@Intellectual Hedonist,
thats why people got married for in the first place. This love stuff got inserted into it later on.
@Gem of the Ocean,
De-lurking just to co-sign! Your post is the truth!
well helloooooo there *waving*
@YGB, welcome and sh!t *gold stars*
@SouthernGirl,
Tenks you – although I’ve posted on here before!
@YGB, was this during my two-week break or i am slippin’?
@Gem of the Ocean,
co-sign.
I know too many people who got married b/c it “felt right” (whatever that means), “he/she is the one”, or they got married b/c they were the only one of the crew who was still single. I think it’s great if people want to get married using love as the end all be all, they just need to be ready for all of the unlovely moments, and be realistic about what marriage really involves. The honeymoon doesn’t last indefinitely….
p.s. Am I the only one who is completely in favor pre-nups?
@N.I.A. thinkingofamasterplan…., nope, Kanye love them too.
@Panama Jackson,
LOL!! I thought about Kanye after I wrote that…”we want pre-nup, we want pre-nup”
Even still, a pre-nup can make things a lot easier if whe marraige dissolves. and it is a good way for women with trust funds or other inheritance to make sure her husband cannot under any circumstances, get near her family jewels after the marriage has ended.
@N.I.A. thinkingofamasterplan….,
yeah girl, ppl see marriage as a sparkly new toy–the wedding, honeymoon, and newly wed stage. dont really think about what happens when the toy ain’t so new anymore when you hafta look into the crust of a muthafugga.
i think prenups are good for ppl who want to keep what was theres before a marriage happened. protect their prior investments without having to link them to their future spouse’s. i dont see nothin wrong (wrooooong) with a little bump and prenup. but whatever is acquired together in a marriage should be divided appropriately.
@Gem of the Ocean, but whatever is acquired together in a marriage should be divided appropriately.
agree 100%
@N.I.A. thinkingofamasterplan….,
I just wish there was the option to keep our assets separated like in most European countries. It actually makes a lot of sense to each remain our separate business units and make business together.
It would also work great in cases like Mardoff’s where couples invested together and are now broke…
Better than pre-nup, we, the people, want “full separation of assets as an option upon taking the vows of marriage”.
*gavel pounding*
I quit….good night. See ya in the morning…
I mentioned this to PBG yesterday when she was on TV blog
One of my sorors (during a dinner I hosted at my house with 10 of them present) dropped a serious bomb on us, she said, she
“resented that after I got married, not a single one of you who were present at my wedding ever asked me how my marriage was or how I was doing in my marriage, you were there as witnesses and you (pointed at me) were my maid of honor, and not once did any one of you fulfill your comitment as a witness to my marriage”
Well, I for one was floored, you could have knocked me over with a feather. She was serious as h3ll.
You see her marriage ended 2 years after she took her vows, and what she was saying wad BBJ and God’s honest truth. As the witness to said union it was my responsibility to inquire how she was in her marriage and how her marriage was. But as a woman I got all caught up in the wedding, the pomps and circumstance of it all, instead of being caught up in the marriage.
Now I know and as a result I will not go gently to another wedding ceremony and reception to taste the rubbery chicken and see how fly the bride’s dress is, instead I will think, do I agree with this union. Am I satisfied that I will do my part to ensure that the bride and groom stay true to their marriage vows?
And their you have it good people of VSB, the responsibility of an on looker in a marriage.
instead I will think, do I agree with this union. Am I satisfied that I will do my part to ensure that the bride and groom stay true to their marriage vows?
dang e-prima. that’s deep. and soooo important for friends and loved ones to check up on the status of things. be a support system. marriage isn’t solely about 2 ppl , they are the union of 2 circles, 2 families, 2 worlds.
great point to bring up, chica. good job.
@Gem of the Ocean,
marriage isn’t solely about 2 ppl , they are the union of 2 circles, 2 families, 2 worlds.
And that’s a truth if I’ve ever seen one.
Marriage is far from being just two people getting together. It’s mostly a joining of years of values, customs, habits, beliefs brought on and built with the people around you: family, friends, neighbors, etc…
Each spouse brings that tapestry to the marriage. The people around them need to help them make sure those tapestries don’t clash.
@Sula 2.09. Requirements Gathering Phase.,
couldn’t have said it better……go on!
exactamente!
@Intellectual Hedonist, I agree and disagree.. I think that if it is truly your friend you owe it to her to tell her how you feel but after that she has to make her own decisions, it is not up to you to inquire about her marriage but to be her friend and let her know that you are there for her. Now if you knew dude wasnt shyt and you sat up in the wedding never said anything and then cut her off I could understand (sort of) her point but as a grown mofo I aint blaming nobody if my marriage fails and I am not taking the blame for anyone elses…..
i hear you, oh shay-d one, but what i got from IH’s comment is that sometimes ppl need a voice of reason, a reality check, a support system– in which this person double checks that they are indeed ready to make that big leap of marital one-ness. love can blind, as most of us have experienced once if not 100x. yeah we grown but that doesn’t mean we aren’t sometimes misguided and somewhat betrayed by our own ish. maybe IH’s girly need some one to ask if they’d “proven” themselves to each other that they’re marrying for all the right reasons, and all that. this doesn’t take away from girly’s ownership of her decisions. everybody gotta accept blame for their own sh*t (ho sh*t included). i don’t think IH’s comment was to shift the blame, but that’s just what i took away from it…
idk. i think of cultures where the whole community is involved in a couple’s union. everybody takes responsibility in making sure things are cool. they care and want to see the union blossom and flourish and are long lived. and we should want that for our loved ones.
@Shay-d-lady & Intellectual Hedonist
“but as a grown mofo I aint blaming nobody if my marriage fails and I am not taking the blame for anyone elses…..”
Gotta co-sign on that, bad credit and all, lol. IH, you know, it coulda really been that she was just very bitter cause of the divorce happening so soon after the marriage.
If she went into the marriage with eyes wide shut, that’s really on her, not you – even though you were the MOH and ate the rubbery chicken.
Aside from that, married women talk to their girlfriends about what’s up in their life anyway. Now, if she had dropped some hints, perhaps things would be different. But for her to EXPECT you and the other sorors to pry into how her married life is going is a bit much.
Don’t let her blame rest on your shoulders, cause it’s not yours to carry. JMO.
@Shay-d-lady,
I think more of what she was saying was that as a guest to the wedding and eapecially if you are in the wedding you are in deed standing up for the bride or groom and as such you have a right to inquire the status of their marriage, which I can agree with to a certain extent. Her resentment came in when none of us did that. She takes full resposibility for her part in the failure of her marriage, however she wanted us to understand our role in her marriage.
It honestly made me look at things differently.
@Intellectual Hedonist,
I agree with this wholeheartedly. I’m not sure which, i would have to do some source checking, but I know that in some cultures it is customary to marry before a community, in which the entire community is involved in the mediation of household disputes, and in the decision to disolve a union or not. I think we all need that kind of support system. We’re all human, whatever our age and your example of the marriage ceremony is a great example of what our responsibilities are to our loved ones beyond the superficial.
@Intellectual Hedonist, I see what you saying I just dont buy that part of it.. your role as her friend is to check on HER… if you talked to her and asked her how she was doing then thats all you were suppose to do. I agree that before she took the big step if you and her were close you should have asked her if she was ready and if she and thought things through but thats it. It is not your responsibility or anyone elses to check on the marriage he.ll did you check on the relationhsip before marriage? and honestly if she went in with her eyes wide shut would it have made a difference? yall must be cool cause on the real that shyt would have made me look at her a whole lot differently.. …..and not in a good way
@Shay-d-lady,
This is true too… she may have threw severe shade if offered good advice prior to jumping the broom. Especially if she and the groom were really unevenly yoked from the start…good points on both sides.
@Intellectual Hedonist,
…she was crying out for help. And, u know, the same way that you got caught up in ceremony of it all, it sounds as if she might have been caught up herself…so she needed (in the literal sense of the word) someone who was close to her to help her think the marriage through instead of focusing on the ceremony.
…and that’s hard to do, especially as the MOH. U were likely concentrating on your duties leading up to the wedding day and gave little thought to the duties that come after. I think most ppl assume that after a couple gets married, they’d like their space…time to be w/each other, time to acclimate to the situation…and, so, we typically keep our distance. It’s one thing to be invited to the wedding, but your girl was telling you (too late) that you were also invited to the marriage.
I’m grateful for this post. Just Monday, one of my former best friends (who’s also a former lesbian, however that works) told me that she’s getting married to a man and asked if I’d be in the wedding or help her plan. I declined b/c I felt like she was being rash…and I had mixed feelings that I couldn’t vocalize. I realize now, after reading your post, that I can’t agree with the union…and I’d be uncomfortable being witness for that reason.
Thanks for being so candid. VSB.com: where real sh*t happens.
@Resident GRitS, she was crying out for help. And, u know, the same way that you got caught up in ceremony of it all, it sounds as if she might have been caught up herself…so she needed (in the literal sense of the word) someone who was close to her to help her think the marriage through instead of focusing on the ceremony.
but shouldnt she have thought it through? at the point of the ceremony shouldnt all that deep thought and discussion have happened before? where was her mother, her aunts, her uncles..was the union a bad idea from the beginning? did you never say anything?
see in the example you give grits I would hesitate too.. not for the union but because of the friendship having fallen off and me not really being there for the relationship but if we had been girls from the get go..the way I roll we would have already talked about the relationship and pros and cons etc and if you still decided to walk into the wall of marital bliss I would have been there with you because my role as a friend is not to make decisions for you or to prevent your from making mistakes its to tell you the truth (as I see it), give my opinion and to be there with the tissue, a shoulder, bail, or even a couch to crash on when it goes bad and celebrate the loudest when it goes well….
@Shay-d-lady,
yeah…that situation’s just generally fcuked up. we’re not close enough NOW that I would’ve had the opportunity to tell her the truth as I see it before she said yes…apparently, she’s got no other real friends if she asked me…I wish I could be there for her but I can’t condone it…and since I declined, we’re back to not talking. sh*t…what else can I do? I think I’m done here.
@Shay-d-lady,
Ok here is the deal, she was/is my girl, by all accounts what I knew, what she told of the relationship it was good.
My perspective was that I didnt know I should be asking how y’all doing in your marriage. I assumed he didnt loose him mind after marriage, which is apparantly what happened
@Intellectual Hedonist,
Well dang! Thanks for letting this sista know the role of a bridesmaid, because clearly I have been doing it wrong. I have never checked up on any of the persons, whose wedding I was in. Because quite frankly I am of the mind that it won’t last anyway. I thought I was just there to wear the heck out of a dress and mind my own bid’ness!
@Mme. Editor-in-Chief,
“Because quite frankly I am of the mind that it won’t last anyway”
Dam*. Well, whats the purpose of going and standing up to co-sign what you believe is BS?
@Mme. Editor-in-Chief,
Oh snap! I’m in a wedding this summer, I didn’t know I had all those additional responsibilities…I guess I better pay attention (full sarcasm intended…lol)
@ IH…your friend was trippin’…lol
@miss t-lee,
I don’t know if she was completely trippin, but she was DEFNITELY on some ‘next level sh*t’ with the charge she leveled at her sorors.
In all honesty, weddings are meant to be ceremonious celebrations of the joining of two lives together. I think the only people who should be invited/included in the wedding party are those people who had a vested interest in the relationship and its success.
Par example, I had a VERY small wedding (well, small for my culture… my contemporaries generally invite every Ghanaian in a 100 mile radius) I had 77 people, including the wedding party, parents, grand parents and the officiant. The wedding party consisted only of people who were privy to us b*tching, fighting, breaking and making up during our courtship. The ones who were like “girl, i know you’re mad as hell, but he loves you and he’s a good man” and “man, I know she trippin, but that’s a good girl. hang on to her”
It was a celebration of our union but also a big “Thank you” to everyone who supported our relationship, and a charge to them to continue their support.
That being said, I don’t accept wedding invitations/ bridal party requests all willy-nilly. Especially if I don’t support the relationship or think it has a snowball’s chance in H3ll of working out. I didn’t even stand up for my bestest friend in the whole world during her first wedding because I knew it wasn’t right… 5 years later it was over. But if her current beau pops the question, I have my MOH dress READY.
@blackberry molasses,
I understand completely what you’re saying.
Myself this will be my 1st wedding since I was the flower girl in my Aintee’s wedding back in ’84…lol
I completely support my girl cause I know she’s been through it the last 9 years that we’ve been friends and this guy is a keeper.
Reading your comment made me appreciate the gesture that much more, of her asking me to be involved in her special day.
@blackberry molasses,
O.M.frikkin.G!!!!!!! i call my bestie “bestest friend in the whole world” too!!!!!!!! we grew up together from birth, like literally. our parents have lived next door to each other since 3yrs before we were born. still live next to each other. ppl laughed at s for callin each other “bestest” friend in the www but that’s what we are to each other!
sorry. i had a moment and had to share with you BBMo. i must now call the bfitwww and tell her about this lol.
@Gem of the Ocean, LMAO… I just texted mine. Great minds and shyt.
We’ve been friends since that first day in Kidz Church nearly 22 years ago.
(The way we wild out, people LAUGH OUT LOUD when they find out we met in church. Just because we are Christian girls doesn’t mean we are boring… sheesh!)
Though I’m still pissed at her for making me take the ‘Body Works’ class last night. I can barely climb stairs today, and I’m walking like I ‘did something’ last night.
LOL. i wish me and the bestie lived in the same city–we haven’t since hs. i was in atl for undergrad now she’s there post-bac. but we do make sure we’re keepin to our workout schedules!! she text me the other day like “do you use the stairmaster? i’m scared of it”and i spent many texts convincing her to get her climb on and get that booty right. i love that crazy gal.
@blackberry molasses,
I’ll have to cosign this here post.
When the officiant says the words “if anybody has any qualms about the wedding they should speak up or hold their piece (or peace?) forever”, it’s not supposed to just be words. It’s the community taking the responsibility to cosign the wedding.
That’s why some churched have publication of banns a good two months prior to the wedding, so that anybody can contact the pastor privately if they think the marriage is not going to work.
@Intellectual Hedonist,
My initial reaction to reading that was “who said I was responsible for your marriage?” Because truth be told I am not.
After thinking about it… I’m on the fence about her statements.
I say that b/c I know from personal experience that if my friends/sisters/ someone I really cared about decided to make such a decision…then I, as your friend…someone you’ve come to rely on to be honest in all things, will tell you how I feel beforehand. If you still wanna do it, then fine. At least I told you. I’ll even go to the wedding, participate in it if invited to do so…but if it comes to an end… keep all ya resentful comments to ya self cuz I done told you.
I see no reason for me to stand up mid ceremony to state my objections. I will bring them to you in the privacy of a conversation before hand. B/c if you’re going to do it, I will not be the one responsible for ruining your wedding day…regardless of how doomed the wedding is going to be.
@Ro,
I agree with this. One of my homegirls was engaged last year. When she told me I just said “uh-huh…well, congratulations.” I love her to death and I knew she was making a big mistake. I told her personally a few months later the reservations I had(He was verbally abusive and a rampant cheater) and eventually she came to her senses.
I still would have gone to the wedding and supported her regardless. But my conscience wouldn’t let me stay silent for too long.
@Intellectual Hedonist, i guess my only question from your comment is to what level she expected you to be involved or how close the two of you are? because it could be in the way you are relaying the story or i might be missing something but it’s coming across as if you stood up and then threw her the deuce and ya’ll never discussed her marriage again.
because if that’s your girl, don’t you talk to her and know how she’s doing/going through or ask after her husband in ya’lls calling to catch up moments? or was she looking for you to specifically say, hey, how’s your marriage going and get all into the dirty laundry and ask for a play by play?
i know i have done both-just had general girl talk conversations and specifically asked how married life was. and not necessarily out of some duty based on that fact that i stood up at their wedding (in the cases i’m speaking of i was invited to the wedding, not in it or just an old friend that i’m now catching up with) but because i know and care about this person and am truly concerned about how they are doing in their lives.
so, without knowing specifically what the details are or what her intentions were, on the surface i agree with her.
@SouthernGirl,
I think she was looking for something that neither I nor the rest of my sorors knew was our responsibility.
I mean after she got married I would talk to her ask how she was doing and how things were, but I wasnt prying. I figured if things were hard, or he was being physically or emotionally abusive she would say something.
There are other factors, she moved out of state, was in grad school, her husband in med school. By her being away we didnt hang out at all. Technology then was not what is now, so our communication was limited to when we saw each other at other weddings and a call on her birthday, holidays, and such. So even if she wasnt verbalizing what was going on, I had no hint that something ws stressing her or him for that matter.
Like I said previously going in to their marriage, I was for it and agreed with it, but I dont think that I realized what she was asking me to do when she asked me to stand up with her, and I dont know that anyone that attended her weding understood what she was asking them to do as witnesses to her nuptuals.
IDK
@Intellectual Hedonist, ok, I see. well, if you were communicating with her and asking after her and her life, etc. and she didn’t communicate anything to you then I would have been surprised at what she said as well.
okay what the f!Ck is up with that big a$$ add before the comments..yall know I am sitting here with out my contacts and was confused as he.ll
I digress Good Topic PJ
I say people are to afraid of shyt.. let the dayum house go and file bankruptcy.. he.ll you can do a no fault divorce yourself for 250.00 (so I heard on a t.v. commercial)but you can still survive quite well on cash and a checking account…he..ll a savings account if you must…murdering a mutha will give y ou a lot more time and staying in some shyt that has you all f!cked will kill you slowly inside…people use any excuse to condone some bullshyt.. know you trying to keep up appearances let that shyt go and you will be much happier in your rented 2 bedroom than you will be in your 300,00 6 bed 4 bath jail that love built..
@Shay-d-lady,
Word!
@Shay-d-lady,
(snaps profusely)
@Shay-d-lady, trust me…when i saw that ad i spit my red kool-aid all over my macbook. and it was red kool-aid cuz my macbook is black.
like my president.
hoo-rah.
that ad was disturbing but apparently it changes.
@Shay-d-lady,
I hereby co-sign the above statement.
I was censored and I can’t even go back an make editorial corrections to my typo’s
@Intellectual Hedonist, LOL dont you hate that? especially when you can picture the typo in your head
I know I was supposed to be going to bed… but I didn’t I read everyones comments… and what do you do when love is GONE… like you tried your hardest… But there only line keeping you and your spouse together is that thin one between love and HATE… i’ll agree with Shay-D that killing a ninja is NOT the answer… but things change and people change. So at what point do you call it quits… and sometimes a fresh start without the trappings of a marriage (ie bad credit, bills, and the such) can be mighty refreshing and liberating. Sheit. When does one let it all go?
i’ve never been in a marriage, so i don’t have any real clue as to where a marriage can take you too emotionally and psychologically.
but… i’d say, if it’s not working out, despite all you’ve done, lay it to rest. if it’s not worth holding on to, don’t. your happiness and well being should not be sacrificed for something you are having doubts about anyway.
and truthfully, at that point, you just gotta take it all to BBJ and rest it at his tiny bronze feet. He will provide and He will guide. let GO and let GOD.
Amen Saints. Praise Be To BBJ.
@pgh muse,
When does one let it all go?
i’d say when being with that person is unreasonable. once it reaches that point, any time either of you spend together is a waste of each others time
@The Champ,
I agree.
“We need Obama to restore our 50 percent divorce rate so people can be happy again. Obama, are you up for it? Are you?!?!”
NO. He’s not up for it, and frankly that ain’t his job. I’m sayin why in the hell does everyone place so many hopes and expectations on him like that? Because he’s a brotha? Is THAT why? Cause wasn’t nobody askin all 43 of them other cracka-ass-cracka presidents to “fix” their life situations, aspirations, hopes and dreams.
I just hope he doesn’t have a heart attack or stroke from all the pressure of dealing with Bush’s leftover bullsh*t, and OVERLY unjustified expectations of his upcoming tenure in office. He’s JUST a man, he’s not God.
*leaves the room in a huff*
@RedBeanzNRice, Dayum..tell em why you really mad.. you right though you shole is right….
yep, she shole is.
@RedBeanzNRice,
i got in someone’s a$$ yesterday about this, he was talking about until Obama we didn’t have hope and this and that… I was like oh NO NEEGRO Obama is not the second coming and don’t use that as an excuse why all these lil colored children round here aint actin right.
Sorry about that yall, but it just ain’t right.
@IH
“I was like oh NO NEEGRO Obama is not the second coming and don’t use that as an excuse why all these lil colored children round here aint actin right.”
THANK YOU. (wait, did she say “colored”, lol)
Obama becoming president does not mean parents are gonna all of a sudden start actually raising and teaching their kids. Nor does it mean that there will no longer be any crack houses in the hood, drug dealers on the streets, or hookers on the ho-stroll.
But I’ll tell ya what though. I honestly believe he’ll be a DAMN GOOD president – possibly one of the best.
LMAO @ (wait, did she say “colored”, lol)
and yes, yes she did!!! i LOVE it!!! i prefer the term colored over all other alternatives. well, depending on my mood i go back and forth with colored and negro.
@Gem of the Ocean,
I prefer “of color” but I used “colored” for emphasis. Cause he got my presha up
@Intellectual Hedonist, I am from the south the where old white people still use that term quite regularly…. that shyt gives me incredible hulk rage….LOL
@Shay-d-lady, *sigh* you and me both
@Gem of the Ocean & IH
“i prefer the term colored over all other alternatives.”
I know, me too, to be honest. Mayhaps it’s because we weren’t really raised in the era where the fountains and restrooms read “Colored Only”.
Cause to older black folks, the word “colored” seems to be a fightin word. I “get it”, but I don’t at the same time – if that makes sense.
Well whatever, it tickles me when old white ladies refer to me as “that nice colored woman” – but then again, I love old folks to pieces (minus John McCain and his mechanical crane arms) so I’m tickled when they say damn near anything, lol.
old people are scary @ me.
i particularly like to use “colored” becuz NO ONE expects that to be the term used to describe us these days. it makes ppl laugh, pause, then say “did you just say colored?” and laugh some more.
besides, when we start actin up, being foolish, and just plain carryin the hell on, shaking your head and saying “coloreds” or “negroes” is so much more dismissive and disapproving than “black folk.” i encourage everyone to try it.
@RedBeanzNRice,
Rehoboth Holiness Church of The God of the Universe (Bedstuy Brooklyn, NY)
@Intellectual Hedonist,
Lol. Um…I’m confused. Was that an invite or a place to meet for fighting?
Like, “Outside – parking lot – NOW!”
@Intellectual Hedonist,
BASICALLY I was agreeing with you
“THANK YOU. (wait, did she say “colored”, lol)
Obama becoming president does not mean parents are gonna all of a sudden start actually raising and teaching their kids. Nor does it mean that there will no longer be any crack houses in the hood, drug dealers on the streets, or hookers on the ho-stroll.
But I’ll tell ya what though. I honestly believe he’ll be a DAMN GOOD president – possibly one of the best.”
but so many people interjected between me agreeing with your statement
@RedBeanzNRice,
LOL!! I co-sign this entire thread
@RedBeanzNRice, a friend of mine was in Jamaica right after the election for a wedding and she was talking to a waitress at a restaurant there. The waitress said that she is sad that America is so f#cked up b/c Obama wont be able to help Jamaica for like a whole year. (True story too)
@Please Excuse Your Significant Other,
I pity this Jamaican fool!
@RedBeanzNRice, i agree with you. I think that all of us, and that’s all of us colored folks, have placed a lot on his shoulders that has nothing to do with his actual presidency.
i remember when we had the post on what Obama in the white house will do for Black love, etc. and i was amazed at how much people think his example alone will change relationships. sad to say, i really think that people are always looking for somebody else to right their own ships.
truth be told, the President can actually only do so much, anyway. its called checks-and-balances for a reason.
but hey, i mean, if Obama can’t fix my life and everybody else’s life, why did we elect him president?!?!?! to be presidential?? go on ahead with that BS.
I just hope he doesn’t have a heart attack or stroke from all the pressure of dealing with Bush’s leftover bullsh*t, and OVERLY unjustified expectations of his upcoming tenure in office. He’s JUST a man, he’s not God.
@RedBeanzNRice,
Obama smokes weed, so he’s alright, this stress won’t kill him.
@RedBeanzNRice,
although i agree with your premise, i dont think that we can minimize the effect a symbol (in this case, a black president) can have on people. even if he himself doesnt directly enact any change, just the idea of him being president is enough to resonate and alter people’s thought processes and sh*t.
just like batman
@The Champ, I agree. Obama symbolizes what people can achieve. He might not change the economy overnight or save black marriages, but people can look to him for inspiration. In my job, I don’t see a lot of black people but when I met this black women who held a very, very high position in the company and talked to her, that inspired me to work harder. A symbol goes very far even without making big changes.
only if that Batman is played by Christian Bale. with his sexy pale self. alters my thinking and heart rate every time i see him in his batsuit
@Gem of the Ocean,
de acuerdo mi e-prima
@Gem of the Ocean, girl, yes….
It’s almost laughable to quote DMX re: a post on marriage, but he DID say:
bad decisions lead to last decisions
fast collision, now yo a$$ is missin
…the observation is surprisingly poignant in this context.
["Ain't No Way"/ Flesh of My Flesh, Blood of My Blood]
@Resident GRitS,
lol…this is a great quote as it relates to the post and thinking about things in depth before just doing them… but DMX??? That ninja needs to listen to his own songs and take his own advice. sheesh.
@pgh muse,
he prolly had a ghost writer
@Intellectual Hedonist, DMX talked about some real shyt fo his recreational crack usage turned full time habit……smh..fo shame…
@pgh muse,
LOL…clearly, he wasn’t talking about his own decision-making skills.
@ errybody,
lolololol. imma growl and pour out a little of my tea (play like it’s likka) for the ghost of DMX past… Get @ me Dog! lol.
@pgh muse,
ARF! ARF!
@Resident GRitS, i’m mad at you. lol
@Resident GRitS,
LOL! I hate you!
@pgh muse,
“Get @ me Dog! lol.”
You act like he has enough common sense to know how to use the interwebconnect. *sighs* I kinda like him an all, but the truth is:
He has street smarts, sometimes lyrical brilliance, and mild acting skills – but the use of a keyboard and a mouse? Completely out of his repertoire.
Ok, goodnight beautiful (absolutely gorgeous, really) friends of VSB! See you in the A.M., or P.M., depending on that damn office. *sighs*
On a sidenote, who the hell invented the Monday thru Friday work week? That’s some bullsh*t everybody tolerates, but no one even likes. Can we have an uprising, or some other equally revolutionary sh*t to get rid of this unwanted, yet cemented schedule?
@RedBeanzNRice,
I got you
*cues Rat Race and Downpressor Man*
@Resident GRitS,
You can quote DMX almost as frequently as you can Jay-Z….I believe…lol
Regarding your exes,
“..You know who’s gonna find you? Some old man fishin’…”
@Resident GRitS,
“Flesh of My Flesh, Blood of My Blood”
i actually think this is one of the most underrated “popular” albums in hip-hop history
@The Champ,
This is a great album.
@The Champ,
…agreed.
hol’ up. am i the only who spotted this ad for afro romance? this is hilarious. i sent a link to my family for shyts and giggles and told them i was gonna join this dating website. they have some hilarious ads. anywho…did you know there is a website specifically for married people who want to cheat and for single people that want to get with married folks? don’t ask me what it’s called but i saw the billboard on sunset blvd and was like WTF?
and for those of you who need more jungle fever lovin’ websites, there’s also http://www.interracialpassions.com http://www.ebonyandivorylove and my favorite (and it don’t get no more blunt than this) http://www.whitewomenblackmen.com LMAO!!!
@Miss Patterson,
http://www.blackfemaleinterracialmarriage.com/
this one is the most entertaining and sh*t
VSB moderation is trippin’ mayne. i had some very clean things to say. i didn’t say anything naughty, i swear!
@Miss Patterson,
LOL…maybe u should.
…just throw in some asterisks and sh*t.
Happy New Year VSB…hope everyone’s 2009 is off to a good start.
Reference the post for today, Pres elect is not a miracle worker and I hope folks aren’t disappointed that it’s going to take more than a day or a month for him to implement some changes to turn some things around. We can’t be looking for a quick fix.
I think the biggest issue is people getting married for the wrong reasons. I have about 5 friends that have gotten married in the past year and only 2 of them were with their spouse for over 2 years. They got married because it was cute or sounds nice or she got pregnant. Those things can’t sustain the test of time.
Did anyone hear the story about the man divorcing his wife and suing to get his Kidney back?
I was watching Good Morning America this morning and they had a story about this couple going through a divorce. A doctor and a nurse. At one point the wife was terminally ill and needed a Kidney. It turns out that her husband was a perfect match (the chances of that happening are unheard of) Anyway he gave her one of his kidneys and saved her life. How did she pay him back? By having an affair with another doctor. So now he wants a divorce and his kidney back. He said he will either except 1.5 million or his kidney.
I’m going to surf the net to find an article on this,
http://www.courant.com/news/nationworld/hc-nykidney0108.artjan08,0,2146924.story?track=rss
@eff yo couch,
Yes!! My co-workers and I were just talking about it. He definitely won’t get the kidney back, and he probably won’t get any money for giving it to her.
how he gon be an indian-giver?!?!?! and i say that with all due respective to my native american brothers and sisters. but fa real?? you gave a GIFT. granted it was the gift of life (am i the only one who thinks Seven Pounds got bad reviews?? i LOVED that story) but a gift nonetheless. you can’t just take that ish back cuz your spouse did you wrong. so she’s trifling?? sue her for emotional damage to be righted by $$$ like every one else and keep it moving.
@eff yo couch,
I listened to it on the radio this morning. I understand the plight of the man. I truly do. I mean it is very heartbreaking BUT nobody should make that kind of decision and expect something back. HOPE for something in return, yes. Expect it? Well, she showed him.
By the same token, that batch was stone cold. I mean dayum!
indeed. automatically qualifying her for an old fashioned a*s whoopin until that transplanted kidney crawls out begging for mercy.
i’m glad the Obama is in office….but you know….they couldn’t pay me to do it. The country messed up by baldheads and he’s cleanin it up…. Naw…not me
As for marriage…..it’s work plain and simple..if you ain’t ready to work…don’t do it…
This article kinda hits home…..i think
http://www.odemagazine.com/doc/32/when_one_plus_one_equals_one/
man…only 79 comments….i *must* be in early!
@KingPine,
thanks for the link and sh*t
@The Champ,
np man…they got me workin……smh
@KingPine, yessir.
ALL relationships are work. I firmly believe that. Your friends, your SO, even yo’ mama. i have had to let all kinds of folks go (which is not easy for me once i let someone into my life in a certain way) or demote their status in my life cause i’ll be damned if i’m working and you’re chilling.
but folk don’t want to work. they expect it to be easy. and the first sign of trouble causes ninjas to start ducking out and running.
@SouthernGirl,
duckin and runnin when you ain’t got seed…is *almost* acceptable….. hell even then the split affects community and beyond.
once you got seed though…..folks got to deal – as long as there ain’t no abuse. kids didn’t ask to come in the world…and you can’t abandon em once they’re here
don’t go to mama……that will add 50 bad years to my life in a quick min…..
@KingPine, lol@don’t go to mama. he did that TO ME. and she tried to tell me about myself in my own house and it took all kinds of silent prayers to BBJ for me to respect my elders. politely told her about herself and her son until she couldn’t do nothing but tell me I was right in the end.
but anywho…i understand the stuff about the kids. i do. but i guess the person i am is still gonna put in the work at my relationship regardless. i’m not a duck and run at the first cloudly day type of chick.
i guess the D&R to me implies not putting in the effort and just bailing which i don’t think is right, not leaving once you’ve put in the work and it’s just not happening, ya know?
because in the end, is it worth it just to have your parents together just for the sake of it when they are damn near killing each other? that isn’t healthy either. i know it would be painful but it’s better in the long run to seem them healthy and happy apart but that’s just me.
@SouthernGirl,
smgdh…the boy punked out…..SMGDH!
I’m with you..on the relationship..ain’t nobody forced me in….and my eyes weren’t closed.
Most stuff you can work out if it ain’t about tryin to *control* the other….
prayers do wonders
and if your parents are pullin a WWE they need to split up….lol
Getting married to someone you don’t love anymore over the last 2-3 years is like going into the military pre-2001 thinking you would just do some time, get a free education, and be out. No sir. Not me. Not I.
@Slim Jackson,
This sounds like some ish my older brother would say…lol
He’s 37 and fully committed to not getting married.
*sniggle*
Hello,
CPT Callamity your neighborhood cynic here!
In recent years I’ve pissed off many a potential date and caused confusion from older couples when I voiced my disdain of the institution of marriage. It just doesn’t seem worth it anymore. Even thought the consensus among people I speak to is “people get married for the wrong reasons” then please someone tell me: WHAT IS THE RIGHT REASON TO GET MARRIED?
@CPT Callamity,
That is an excellent question!
WHAT IS THE RIGHT REASON TO GET MARRIED?
@CPT Callamity,
love and companionship
2 incomes are better than one
s3x on demand
Tax benefits
Insurance benefits
Home cooked meals
My life expectancy increases
visitation rights if one of us was to gets locked up . . .
Someone help me out here
@eff yo couch,
stable environment for progeny
cuddles and snuggles– they make everything better
@eff yo couch,
…if marriage guarantees s3x on demand (like Comcast), why are married folks always talking about what little s3x they have?
@Resident GRitS,
Because your listening to the wrong married people . . .really I have no idea. I’m bored here at work, so I decided to play devil’s advocate.
@Resident GRitS,
“…if marriage guarantees s3x on demand (like Comcast), ”
and why are married men/men in commited relationships hitting on me thinking they can get some.
@Anonymous~to protect the not so innocent,
Because you give off that vibe… You know the one.
@Sula 2.09. Requirements Gathering Phase.,
ah the thrill of new bootie. real talk this is so not my steez
@Sula 2.09. Requirements Gathering Phase.,
no I don’t know, I really want someone to tell me what vibe I give off so I can stop cause this ish is ridiculous.
Really, I currently have 4 married men/committed men offers on the table
and honestly it is making me have serious doubts about the ability to be in a monogomous relationship
@Anonymous~to protect the not so innocent,
I want you to stop using pronouns all together.
@Anonymous~to protect the not so innocent,
You’re not giving off a vibe. Some married men are trife and try to start relationships outside of their marriages. It happens to me and I’m definitely not the home wrecking type. It happens to alot of women I know who are just as disgusted by these men as I am.
@Anonymous~to protect the not so innocent,
some men are just slores. I have married men who see my ring and know that I see their ring talking some yang to me.
lmao @ “visitation rights if one of us was to gets locked up”
this also works in hospitals if one were to be admitted
@eff yo couch
ummmmm how about a stable home environment for the kids?!?!?!
That right there is one of the main reasons in my opinion. Everything else just sounds good.
@V Renee,
PREACH!!!
@V Renee,
…two parents does not a stable household make. there are a lot of other factors that have to take precedence for that statement to be true.
my parents were together the first 4 or 5 years of my life and the majority of my memories of that time involves them fighting like cats and dogs.
@CPT Callamity,
My friend and I were talking about this very thing last night but it was linked to the topic of cheating. We’re nervous that cheating is almost inevitable, and since we can’t accept that in a relationship we feel like it’s almost pointless to get married.
@Voice of Reason,
Totally understand the sentiment
@eff yo couch
Sounds good on paper. That’s what they say you’ll get out of the deal but can you honestly look around and see this playing out? Home cooked meals? Say word!
I’m looking at your list carefully but something seems to be missing or not quite registering. I dunno…it’s almost like listening to our outgoing President tell me “we could be in a recession.”
@CPT Callamity,
Like I said earlier I was just playing Devil’s advocate. I think some of our married VSBers should answer that question.
@eff yo couch,
love and companionship – depends on the moon
2 incomes are better than one – nah..she’s at home w/ kids
s3x on demand – see #1
Tax benefits – true
Insurance benefits – true
Home cooked meals – questionable
My life expectancy increases – do wrong…get cut…questionable
visitation rights if one of us was to gets locked up . . .
do wrong…you are forgotten….lol
just don’t come in to the deal w/ any expectations….that’s my .02
lmao @ this list!!! esp “do wrong…get cut…” and “do wrong…you are forgotten…”
@CPT Callamity,
Ok, homie, this —>Sounds good on paper. That’s what they say you’ll get out of the deal but can you honestly look around and see this playing out? Home cooked meals? Say word makes me believe you’ve been around some pretty unhappy married couples.
H3ll, I am not even married and I have home cooked meals every day of the week. So yeah, look harder sweets.
@CPT Callamity,
My pastor has been preaching on this topic lately. He essentially says that no one should be married unless they are ready and willing to be completely selfless and submit to their spouse. If both are willing to do certain things they don’t necessarily want to do (with in reason) out of love then both will ultimately be happy. For instance, men who are willing to communicate more and express their emotions to their wives, or women who express love when their husband comes home from work instead of nagging about things that are trivial to him. It’s not a fool proof approach to a solid marriage, but it’s definitely better than what most people do.
@Voice of Reason,
This…”He essentially says that no one should be married unless they are ready and willing to be completely selfless and submit to their spouse. ”
Sounds like it makes sense to me. And I like that he didnt use the standard “the wife should submit” or that “husband is the head of the household” saying. Marriage should be about both partners submitting to each other.
I’m thinking that there are also times you will have to stand your ground, but ultimately in some situations you need your spouse to carry you. Both people need to be strong enough to take the lead and alternately give in when the situation calls for it.
yeah girl, i’ve heard sermons like this too. which is why i think more Christian-minded ppl should seek spiritual marriage counseling prior to getting married, so they know their role.
also– as it relates biblically– marriage isn’t for everyone. and marriage isn’t necessarily about love. in fact, most passages on marriage don’t reference “love” as a requirement key stone in a marital foundation.
@Gem of the Ocean,
Yeah, the whole idea of marriage for love is a relatively new concept. And we only have that luxury in certain parts of the world, as most people still marry for finances or to fulfill familial obligations.
When you think about it that way its no wonder some of us have things so twisted!
@Gem of the Ocean,
That is because marriage in a patriarchal society had more to do with private property than love. Marriage that we see is a westernized hybrid of the transference of property infused with the fog of deep sentiments and emotions.
@CPT Callamity,
Reason why, I have always felt like arranged marriages by definition and nature have a better chance of working out than “love marriages”.
It’s all about managing expectations…
i used to think the same of arranged marriages. but i’ve talked to lots of friends who’s parents and family members are in them, and not all of them are happy. like, some of them are just down right miserable, but stay in the marriage becuz (a) that’s their “role” and (b) they are afraid to be alone (since many of them left home to be with their spouses and only went back to visit– which is i guess what happens when 2 flesh become 1).
but in general, i think if you HAVE to make it work, you will.
“We thought we needed Obama to forge the road for Black people, and we think he just might do wonders for Black love…”
I know this is a skosh off topic, but it bothers me that we’re the only ethnicity that has a coined term for when we’re genuinely in love. Is there such little love amongst Black men and women that when it happens people are taken aback and have to put a label on it?
@Voice of Reason,
I agree with your post.
@Voice of Reason,
Yup. There is so much love lost amongst Black people period.
@pgh muse,
True, and we can’t even blame Jim Jones…
@Maximillian,
LOL! You can always blame Jim Jones. Even if he didn’t cause the problem he perpetuates it.
@Maximillian,
We can’t? I thought every scourge of humanity was his fault. I’m very mad @ him for effing with my g. husband Ne-yo.
@Maximillian,
Jim Jones is married. He just married a woman from his old neighborhood, a certified “hood shorty.”
Ya’ll can hate on Jim Jones all ya want but the more I see of him as a person the more I approve.
No, its not Obama’s job to “fix” the state of American marriages, but I think he can. It wasn’t JFK’s job to help set the tone for National Civil Rights, but he did it anyway. An effective president can make a difference in how people view their own lives and challenge people to do better. I see Obama being exactly that kind of president.
On the divorce front I have mixed emotions. I’ve never been married but I’ve seen many start and end, and still see many in progress. I think people in our generation are too quick to call it quits. So what you didn’t get married for the right reasons. That’s not a valid reason to call it quits. I can see that sometimes the road gets tough and sometimes you just want to end things. But at the same time I think divorce offers too easy an out. Maybe this recession will force people to work on the relationships they already have.
@Dom,
You know what… you need to get out of my head, or start paying rent.
This is almost identical to what I was going to say. The only difference is that, in reality, its not his job to fix people’s lives period. When did we start treating him like the Second Coming? Personal responsibility people!!!
That being said, I do think that he and Chelly’s marriage could be and example for people to look up to. They are a successful and powerful couple with beautiful well-adjusted children who actually love each other and aren’t afraid to show it. They don’t have to do anything more than continue to work on their own marriage and family. People who are dedicated to the idea of making it work, but have a dearth of examples in their immediate circle will have access to the public view of at least one successful marriage.
But tread with caution… each marriage is different and people should not use someone else’s marriage (outside of maintaining basic vows) as a yardstick to measure their own. That is a disaster in the making.
**Diva Dust v. 2.0** for you, Dom!
@blackberry molasses,
If you don’t mind me asking how was you with your husband before marriage and long have you been married?
@eff yo couch,
We were together for 3 years before we got married and we’ve been married for 2.
@blackberry molasses,
Thanks! My very first helping of Diva Dust! I might just let it go to my head and start acting like Aretha/Diana/Whitney/Beyonce? Uh-oh!
And I totally agree with you in that its not his job to do so and people should not expect him to fix their lives. He is just a man.
But I think we’ve all seen him do incredible things already, maybe even miracles from some perspectives. And he hasnt even taken office yet! I’m SO SO SO excited for the changes we will see as a result of his presidency!
@Dom, This is only your first helping?!? Oooooh lawd, I owe you Diva Dust ™ back payments. My bad girl!!!
@blackberry molasses,
Accepted with thanks!
@Dom,
An effective president can make a difference in how people view their own lives and challenge people to do better.
***nodding egg-ish head***
@The Champ,
egg-ISH, huh, no I think it is just egg, not quasi-egg….
@Relax, Relate, Alise,
LOL! What’s up with the Champ’s head! I feel like I need to see it for myself.
So what you didn’t get married for the right reasons. That’s not a valid reason to call it quits.
i kind of feel you on this. but at the same time, i think if ppl aren’t in it to win it, they likely never will be and may not be able to be convinced otherwise. if some one’s core self (and by core i really mean emotionally, mentally) wasn’t ever really in the relationship to begin with, and “Love” was just the guiding force, they aren’t going to be tough enough to carry on with the relationship.
and if it were me, i hope i wouldn’t be with some one who was just in it becuz they didn’t want to go through the pains of a divorce or to be labeled a divorcee. ya know?? that’s why i think the PRE-marriage talks and counseling are so important so you don’t have to find yourself comtemplating divorce later down the road.
@Gem of the Ocean,
I guess we’re just on a streak here huh?
I think people grow and change over time. Just because you weren’ t in it to win it at the start doesnt mean you cant grow in to a decicated spouse.
For all married people there was something that brought them together at the start. A lot of times folks just need to get out of their own way and try to get back to that before screaming for a divorce.
i’m not arguing that point of it, becuz i think some ppl definitely can grow to be a better spouse and to do better as time goes on.
i’m saying for those ppl who think, well it’s not working for me so i don’t want to put any more effort into it. like ppl who already accept failure/defeat are the ones i’m saying should just go ahead and let it go. if they change their minds, great. if not, holla back. we’ll devy up this here property over coffee next weekend.
in “sex, drugs, and cocoa puffs”, chuck klosterman argued that maybe our advances in medicine in culture have made marriage obsolete. basically, he said (paraphrasing), if you knew that you probably were gonna die at 45 or 50, then it wouldn’t be a big deal to find someone to spend the rest of your life with at 25, since you’re gonna die of dysentery in two decades anyway. plus, you needed a wife and a ton of kids to plow the lawns and sh*t and help you kill roaches.
now, since we’re living into our 70′s, 80′s, and 90′s, the “rest of your life” is a hell of alot longer, and that scares people away from marriage and monogamy.
again, these aren’t my views…but he does bring up an interesting point. thoughts and sh*t?
@The Champ,
Yes, forever is a very long time… he may be on to something, because the divorce rate among folks in their 40′s & 50′s is a trip, hmmmm?
@The Champ,
I think there is a lot of truth in these statements. Reason why there are so many starter marriages.
It’s almost like the first 50% of the divorce rate (the divorced ones) are the same ones in the other 50%. Just that they got married at 23, divorced at 37, and then got married at 41 again and stayed married.
Again no hard facts here, just some random musings.
@The Champ n errbody,
I was thinking that the divorce rate is so high because of all the 1 night stands, equal oportunity self suficiency that exhists in America. And believe it or not maybe these hard times are going to produce those tightly bound marriages of old. Because hard times breeds character? Just my lil random thaught while reading today’s post.
@WuDaMan,
And believe it or not maybe these hard times are going to produce those tightly bound marriages of old. Because hard times breeds character
Dam* straight. And I think it will be interestng to see how much character comes out of those in our generation. We havent really had the chance to show what we’re made of. We havent had a World War or a depression or a movement.
Its going to be tough for sure, but I think these are the type of times that pull people together and make us stronger as a nation.
One of my favorite Obama quotes is “we are the ones we have been waiting for.” I think he’s right.
@Dom,
you just campaigning for extra sparkle blessings today, aren’tcha?
**Diva Dust V. 2.0 ™ for you and my WU WU**
@blackberry molasses,
Yes, and today my cup runneth over. *Preening*
@Dom,
Word Life Dominator! I totally think that places like these are breeding the mindsets that can produce a honest fair and loving comunity. It removes the blackmail tears and the intimidation of size. Places like here where you have to thuroughly explain yourself. If for noone but yourself. Gives you a minute to think about your own thaught process. That’s why Oprah be like get a journal. I be like get you some people. You know what I ‘m a people junkie.
@ Errbody,
Also the blues was big back then too. So go out there and get that KahnWeezie & get yo blues on. Or country and western n shyt.
like everything else we adapt to our surrounding and circumstances. the rest of our lives could very well be much longer (or not depending if you remembered to check both ways before crossing the street while that bus was riding along).
but i think there are also other ways to adapt to marraiges given increased likelihood of longer lives. that’s what strip poles in the home are for. and kama sutra books. and time shares. use whats out there ppl to keep things interesting.
@The Champ,
oh yeah cecks (hopefully vasopresin & oxytocin) drugs and cocoa puffs sounds like an awesome, nah incredible great magnamous time.
me soooo impressed you mentioned vasopresin & oxytocin in your comment.
@Gem of the Ocean,
I got that off of a discovery channel documentary. I likes to get high w/ the right company.
Hey Champ, PJ, Liz, & VSB Fam, today and me and my blog partner eysqueen’s 150th “Bloggeversary”. Please stop on by and check it out! http://naturallyalise.blogspot.com/2009/01/do-you-know-what-today-is.html
Love Y’all!
@Relax, Relate, Alise,
just gotta say i ran over to Luvvie’s spot (i’ll post a comment on your page lates) and y’all just redefined IGNANT with that whole exchange. Had me choking on green tea and sh*t.
Not sure if anybody else is really paying attention to the Google Ads sidebar, but right now it has ads for:
1) desperate Women
2) Asian Singles
3) Ski Goggles – WTF???
4) Black women seeking Black men – i think?!@
5) dress like a woman – again, WTF??
I really should be saving these screenshots!!! I’m telling you, those sidebars can be just as entertaining as the site itself…lol.
@Panama Jackson,
So what the deal yall gettin rich to this or what. Are they gonna put baby Jackson through school or something?
@WuDaMan, um. rich? no. in fact, if we were planning on using the money we’ve made from this site to put Baby Jackson through school, she’d be going to the worst state school money could buy: Ohio State.
ZING!
@Panama Jackson,
buckeye (in a low contrabase tone) lmao
@Panama Jackson,
is that the same as The Ohio State?
@Panama Jackson
OH HE!! TO THE NAW……I guess you want him at Morehouse? Where the geighs come to play? NTTAWI
@V Renee,
“NTTAWI”
I was watching that episode of Seinfeld the other day, and although it was funny before, now it’s even funnier. Couldn’t stop chuckling.
@V Renee,
Baby Jackson is a HER
My heart goes out to all the gold-diggers (males and females) who thought getting married was going to be a quick way to make a buck.
Must suck to be them right now. Oh, well.
Sup VSBer’s??
Coming out of lurk mode 4 a hot sec..
The only reasons to divorce in my opinion:
1) Unfaithfulness (9 times out of 10 a definite deal breaker but can be worked through.)
2) Different religious beliefs or non belief by one spouse.
3) any physical or serious emotional abuse.
4) Long prison terms…10+yrs IMO
Other than that…work that ish out. Make God the center of your marriage and weather the storm till the sun shines. (especially if young kids are involved.)
@Tx10inch,
2) Different religious beliefs or non belief by one spouse.
But wouldn’t that be known prior to the mariage though?
@Sula 2.09. Requirements Gathering Phase.,
Not really. Believe it or not, some people marry without even discussing important issues such as religious beliefs. And some people marry thinking what each other believes seperately is no big deal. He’ll do him and I’ll do me until later down the line it becomes a BIG problem especially when raising kids. But typically intelligent people serious about marriage will discuss their beliefs b4 hand and either live with it or one will convert…
@Tx10inch,
I let people know up front my religious views (agnostic/free thinking) and love how it eliminates most prospects by about 80%. Considering most of the women I encounter are devout (or wannabe) Christians, it clears the air real quick. Apparently an agnostic black man does not a good one make.
@CPT Callamity,
I let people know up front my religious views (agnostic/free thinking) and love how it eliminates most prospects by about 80%.
I do that too!! Except, if throws most men for a loop at first then they get curious. Mmmm, Taoist? Word?
@Sula 2.09. Requirements Gathering Phase.,
Hey, I can’t help being the inquisitive and stubborn human who won’t fall in line. I don’t expect anyone to understand but just respect my view point, ya know.
Funny because when I look on sites like BPM the woman always says she wants “A God fearing man” and I immediately hit back button because I know what further inquisition would mean…
@Tx10inch,
I agree with this list 100%.
I know some of my moms friends are going THROUGH it right now with their husbands, but they’re sticking that ish out. So when I hear younger folks whinning about some BS and calling for a divorce they sound like immature children.
You put that ring on for better or worse, until death. Work.It.Out.
@Tx10inch,
me likes your statements… but different religious beliefs, or should i say NON COMPATIBLE beliefs would come out in the wash before the walk down the aisle.
other than that
**Diva Dust v. 2.0 ™** for you, homie!!!
@blackberry molasses,
Preciate tha dust babygurl..
@Tx10inch,
By the way, just curious… I’m assuming you mean 10 inch of hair, right?
@Sula 2.09. Requirements Gathering Phase.,
Haaair?? Ummm, sure. lol
@Sula 2.09. Requirements Gathering Phase.,
you know I was wondering the same thing
@Tx10inch
I definitely believe that once you make the decision to marry, you stick that shyt out!!! The only reason for divorce should be some type of abuse and maybe infidelity, and I question whether infidelity is a reason to at times. I’m not saying that cheating is acceptable, but Ima need yall to go to counseling to see if the situation can be rectified. Seriously.
@V Renee,
4 sho.
How do yall like the new handle?
@”H-town” formerly Tx10inch because of all the name queries disrupting the flow of the wonderful VSB thread. LOL!,
like the old one better. easier to read, and I actually got what you were referring to. You advertising for a new boo on here!?!
@blackberry molasses, he must be girl….*sniffle* just leff me all out in the cold…..
@SouthernGirl,
Hey SG! long time no hear. Come on inside from tha cold **hands you a blanket to wrap around you real suave and ish**
@”H-town” formerly Tx10inch because of all the name queries disrupting the flow of the wonderful VSB thread. LOL!,
lmao!
so we back to jumpin VSSs?!?!?!?! *in best 2520 screaming voice* WHAT ABOUT ME?!?!?!
*storms off*
@Gem of the Ocean,
*Grabs brand new MINK blanket for my e-boo, wraps her up and carries her inside* U forgive me?
@”H-town” formerly Tx10inch because of all the name queries disrupting the flow of the wonderful VSB thread. LOL!,
woooooowwwwww
can you be so easily bought Gem?
@blackberry molasses,
unforntunately no BM. Pimpin’s e-heart has been broken. I still stan for Gem (even though she won’t have me) and SouthernGirl put me in the “just e-friends corner”. **sniffing** it’s just too soon.
@”H-town” formerly Tx10inch because of all the name queries disrupting the flow of the wonderful VSB thread. LOL!,
awwwww… woo, woo, woo. When you are ready, let me know and I’ll send some cute single gals your way
@blackberry molasses,
4 sho babygurl…
@blackberry molasses,
the hell you will. me, him, and SG still got some ish to work out up in this piece.
@Gem of the Ocean,
hey! don’t get made at me Gemmie. He told me you wouldn’t have him. I was going offa partial information. Getinhisass!!
@Gem of the Ocean,
Well lets get it poppin cause that Neyo song says “Let’s make it work”. SouthernGirl, you my girl but i can only have one true e-boo 4 now…u understand don’t you? *takes blanket back* lol
@SouthernGirl.
I’m just jokin. that was wrong. You welcomed me with open arms to VSB and been madd cool with me. I’d neva leave you out in the cold. Don’t be mad…lol
@”H-town” formerly Tx10inch because of all the name queries disrupting the flow of the wonderful VSB thread. LOL!,
don’t make me e-cut you! i see how ninjas do. lol. i ain’t got time…..*sigh* i’m ‘gon make up your mind for you and officially slide to the side and let you and gem work it out.
we cool and sh!t…but don’t get caught up…
@”H-town” formerly Tx10inch because of all the name queries disrupting the flow of the wonderful VSB thread. LOL!,
It’s ok to keep your Tx10inch, dear. Although living in H-Town and all, I don’t how true that would be.
Ain’t too many ninjas walking around with 10 inches of hair ’round these parts is all.
@Sula 2.09. Requirements Gathering Phase.,
LOL.. thank you Sula.
Hey PJ,
Have a friend facing this right now. She wants the h@ll out, husband wants to stick it out but both realize they cannot afford to establish seperate house holds, sell the present house, blah, blah, blah.
Reasons for divorce? Fell out of love, no intimacy.