two things immediately came to mind when hearing about the chicago high school where one out of every seven female students are pregnant
1. between this and the derrion albert story, i probably should have added “raising a child in chicago” to my list of things every grown man is scared to death of.
2. a conversation i had while visiting with my parents last weekend to wash clothes, go grocery shopping in their freezer, and see how they were doing. it began with the usual pseudo serious ribbing about not settling down or having a family yet that mothers are prone to have with their handsome sons. my dad then interrupted us with some silly non sequitor about one of the women he supervises. apparently this person’s daughter just celebrated her 22nd birthday and already has five children, and, from the way the mother talks about the daughters situation to my dad, each of the kids probably just should have been named “no chance”.
the convo then went in a different direction, as my mom lamented the fact that neither i nor any of my close friends have any children yet, but these fertile hoodrats are popping out kids by the bushel. basically, how will black america prosper if people like you (educated, no records or missing teeth) are waiting longer and longer to maybe get married and maybe have one child while d-block and chardonnay are producing a new seed every 14 months?
although she was half-joking, she brings up a valid point. as much as we love creating blogs, stores selling 8 dollar cupcakes, and internet p*rn, our main purpose here is to procreate and continue the species. if this trend continues, we (the very smart brothas and sistas) will basically make ourselves extinct, or at least so overrun by swarms of oddly-named hood spawn that extinction wouldn’t seem like such a bad idea
anyway, very smart brothas and sistas, how do you feel about this?
do you think that “people like us” are obligated to start having more children, or is this too eerily similar to the “selective engineering” that hitler was in favor of?
and, although this would never, ever, happen, in your heart of hearts, would you be opposed to some 1984 type sh*t? (forcibily enacting the reproductive limitation or mass sterilization of all the d-blocks and chardonnay’s?)
—the champ
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If Flirtisha’s kids have no chance anyway, aren’t they going to kill each other off?? If the statistics are right, the kids won’t be able to ‘read good’, the boys will go to jail, and the girls will have a rack of kids too. Maybe one kid from each clan will make it out and become a productive member of society. Save for that one kid, the cycle will continue, right? If we get one ‘winner’ kid out of each flock, it should make up for those of us who are careful breeders.
Also, has your mother been talking to my mother??
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A-Town Genius Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:21 am
@Ms. Smart,
I think all of our mothers must frequent a similar blog called vsb moms or something. I get those same questions at least bi-monthly.
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Wanjiru Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:48 am
@A-Town Genius,
And in addition to the vsm blog, please don’t forget the mailing list now that they’re computer literate as well. I hope my moms never figures out twitter as there goes the last bastion of the childless.
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SaneN85 Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:45 am
@Ms. Smart, If we really think about it, a large chunk of these men and women (and not just the black ones) continue to reproduce because it is made easier for them by having government resources so readily available and not regulated very well. If they start to outnumber us hard-working, tax-paying citizens, they will begin to cut off the very source that has made it easy to live the life they do. This would (hopefully) inspire those to make changes within themselves and the problem should self-correct. At least, I damn sure hope it does.
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V.E.G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:49 am
@SaneN85,
“it is made easier for them by having government resources so readily available and not regulated very well.”
I don’t know if you recall but, in 1996 , then President Clinton signed the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act which basically required welfare recipients to begin work after 2 years of receiving benefits and placed a lifetime limit of five years on benefits.
Sure, folks can get food stamps and housing vouchers – but that’s just not for people with kids. A single person with no children and no income can get those, too.
The resources you speak of just aren’t there anymore, not in the same way. If someone is not working and having a boat load of kids, they are struggling and receiving very little in way of federal support.
And it’s highly regulated. You miss a meeting with a caseworker and you are cut off.
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SaneN85 Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:11 am
@V.E.G., The Act signed by Bill Clinton definitely made a huge difference, but I have two sisters who have been state supported for upwards of 5 years. One of them has 3 kids and the other has four. One of them has had 2x the number of abortions than she has children and neither are on any birth control of any kind. One of them lives comfortably and the other lives well beyond comfortably. They also support the men that they are currently with.
This is just the two in my immediate family, I also know many people who have not worked in years and continue to have children while staying on state assistance. I also see this same kind of scenario at the state supported health clinic I work at.
I am aware of the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act which basically required welfare recipients to begin work after 2 years of receiving benefits and placed a lifetime limit of five years on benefits. On paper this is how it should work, but with my personal experience, it has done little good for those abusing the system.
Now, I am not saying that only those with children are on assistance. Nor am I saying that all those using assistance are abusing it. But, I think it’s hard to say that when some are considering their latest unexpected pregnancy, that these resources don’t play a factor. I’ve seen it personally too many times to count. I’m just basing my opinion off of what I see everyday in my community. I cannot comment on what goes on in other communities, but it sounds as if you have a different experience.
Disclaimer: I am not in any way against state assistance, as I said I work at a clinic supported by the state. I was also heavily supported by state assistance growing up, first in foster care, and then with my disabled mother. Obviously, there is a great need for it.
V.E.G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:17 am
@SaneN85,
I dig. But I think we need to move away from the idea of the ‘welfare queen’ jacking the system. Your sisters are obviously getting over in a big way but that is not at all the norm, anymore.
Now, if you add in SSI benefits and all that, then we have a very different story. Some very ‘normal’ folks are getting disability payments from the government and are living kinda large on them. But that wasn’t covered under the 1996 act.
V.E.G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:20 am
@SaneN85,
“One of them has had 2x the number of abortions than she has children and neither are on any birth control of any kind. ”
Chile, some of my very educated friends have had multiple abortions. So we can’t pin this behavior on the uneducated/hood.
pgh muse Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 5:12 am
@SaneN85 and VEG, Your sisters are obviously getting over in a big way but that is not at all the norm, anymore.
I know a few women who don’t work and have a bunch of kids and I always wonder how they are still doing this considering the time limit…
Ms. Smart Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:55 am
@SaneN85, I made a similar comment over on Sista Tolja’s blog yesterday. That school where there are over 100 knocked up/teen moms are building a nursery across the street from the school. WTF? they could pay off my student loans with that money! I went to school, didn’t get pregnant, and contribute to society. I don’t get anything–not even free health care!
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WuDaMan Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 8:47 am
@Ms. Smart,
I think all our mothers have an internal Grandmother biological clock. I’m just glad I’m not the oldest (i.e. I have a scape goat).
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Monk Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:05 am
@WuDaMan,
Lucky you. Even though I am the oldest and my younger sister has already popped out a booger monster, I still get asked the “questions” from my mom.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:05 am
@WuDaMan,
Well what’s my father’s excuse? He’s been ready for me to have kids since I was like 16! (His mom had him when she was 17).
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olivya23 Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:15 pm
@Me fail english?,
16? For real?!
Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:32 pm
@olivya23,
Yeah. He was engaged to my mother when he was 16 and one of my sisters got married at 18 so it wouldnt be that weird in my family. Plus he didnt know that I was still a virgin at 16! Hahaha.
WuDaMan Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:53 pm
@Me fail english?, bwuahahahaha men have clocks too. Lo siento Me Fail! Lo siento
The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:04 pm
@Ms. Smart,
Also, has your mother been talking to my mother??
probably. like a-town said, there’s no reason why they could have their own very smart mother blogs
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So, let me get this right, the Champ has all of his teeth?
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SouthernGirl Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:42 am
@Miss Patterson,
and he’s handsome?!?!
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SouthernSole Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:31 am
@SouthernGirl,
I thought he was a 3? Color me confused …
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SouthernGirl Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:35 am
@SouthernSole,
lol. *pulls SouthernSole to the side* pj is the 3. champ is his egg shape headed partner in crime. mmmkay?
The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:07 pm
@Miss Patterson,
right deez
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I think that we all know if we are ready to have kids and if you rush and have kids before you’re ready it can lead to us making not very vsb-like decisions.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 8:52 am
@A-Town Genius,
Really? I think most parents weren’t “ready” when they found out they were pregnant. The VSB-ey among them just rose to the occasion.
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miss t-lee Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:07 am
@Me fail english?,
I believe that if most of our parents would have waited until they were “ready” to have us, most of us wouldn’t be here right now…lol
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AkShone Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:43 am
@Me fail english?,
I agree, my mom had just turned 18 and my dad turned 21 two days after I was born.
Niether of them were in a position for a kid, but they made it work along with a great family support system on both sides.
I think in alot of these situations the family structure is broken so that support just isn’t there.
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Monk Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:07 am
@AkShone,
Yep.
A-Town Genius Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:58 pm
@Me fail english?,
I was speaking more about planning to have kids. I know that we will all step and handle responsibility whenever it comes but if you’re not at a point in your life where you are able to comfortably support a child you shouldn’t plan to have one. If it just happens then it’s time to stand up and take care of your child.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:31 pm
@A-Town Genius,
See my thing is I dont think it’s ever (or rarely is) a good time to plan to have a child. Its kinda like marriage in that, when is it a good time to break up half your ish? When is it ideal to spend sleepless nights and exhausting days wiping somebody’s ass? Giving up some large portion of your income for a college fund, doctor’s visits and piano lessons? Giving up damn near all your free time to stay home with Junior to make sure he doesnt burn down the house on a snow day? Being realistic, I dont think there will ever be a time I can “comfortably” do all of this. Unless you’re getting that Slim Helu bread, kids are always a major sacrifice.
I think our generation overthinks what it means to be “ready”. I agree its smart to have the basics in line (a job with benefits, your own spot with a spare bedroom, etc. ). But by time a lot of folks are “ready” they’re damn near done with their child-bearing years anyhow.
A-Town Genius Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:00 pm
@Me fail english?,
I never thought about it that way kind of makes sense. I just have known several couples who didn’t have a place of their own or even a job and they were trying to have kids. Definitely wasn’t the move
I don’t think we need to have more kids. Half the reason people with 14 kids might have some bad ones in the bunch is because the parents are spread too thin. They can’t give all of them the attention kids need. I’m not saying I’m in favor of 1984-ish reproduction limitations but it wouldn’t be the most horrible thing ever if people self-enforced that.
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SaneN85 Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:39 am
@Michelle Huxtable, I cosign this post.
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Dorian G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:13 am
@Michelle Huxtable and SaneN85,
Black women lost
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Sanen85 Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:46 am
@Dorian G., Color me confused. Are you you referring to the mothers in Michelle’s post, or are you calling the two of us black women lost?
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:10 pm
@Sanen85,
he’s probably referring to each, lol
SaneN85 Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 8:02 pm
@The Champ,
Refer deez.
Yeah, I’m still working on that.
I think if you are ready to have kids then you should. This all sort of reeks of the ‘Talented Tenth’. If you’re a part of it you gotta procreate…then teach your kids what you know then make sure they continue it on…that way there will always be someone there to keep us from falling into foolishness again…
But does that mean that the lesser kids won’t make good? Like is there room for growth and improvement…?
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:14 pm
@Jaci,
But does that mean that the lesser kids won’t make good? Like is there room for growth and improvement…?
just like overit’s datebook, there’s always room and sh*t.
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Mr Blaze Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 7:25 pm
@Jaci,
Being a part of the talented tenth prevents you from making the silly decision to have more kids than you can afford. The flip side of that coin states that you won’t even attempt to have ANY children until you think you have the right mate.
“What is we gone do?”
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:15 pm
@Jaci,
did you pay your dues?
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:32 pm
@The Champ,
lol
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i think we would only add to the madness, if we vsbees and esses had kids before we were ready to bring them into the world.
and yes, i’m opposed to the 1984 approach. a better approach would be to promote safe sex/ sex education/behavioral health among our fertile chardonnays & d-blocks.
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SouthernGirl Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:06 am
@Miss Patterson,
yup.
i think the problem is a lot of vsb’s and vss’ have that ‘it’s not my problem’ mentality. even if they kicked and scratched their way out of the hood, for every one that reaches back, two more keep it moving. more than anything our young people need guidance.
as for us very smart people having kids and 1984-type mandates, i don’t think that’s the answer. because kitkatkeisha already has a head start and is ready to drop two for every one we pop out. and if after all of that she still doesn’t have anyone to help her or show her how to make better choices, her gaggle of bebe’s kids are gonna try to jump my kid behind the swing set and then imma have to cut somebody and then it’s gon’ be a thing.
but all jokes aside…i think our obligation (or at the very least i would hope, our desire) should be to help guide our kids onto better paths than they are currently on. because if we start having kids we’re not ready for (and honestly, that some of us just don’t really want) just to “make up” for their behavior you might end up with some very smart people developing resentment toward their kids. and how is that better than bringing one into the world because you “want someone to love you for you”?
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Wanjiru Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:36 am
@SouthernGirl,
i think the problem is a lot of vsb’s and vss’ have that ‘it’s not my problem’ mentality. even if they kicked and scratched their way out of the hood, for every one that reaches back, two more keep it moving. more than anything our young people need guidance.
True, true. And I think the challenge is to really, really find your inner reserves to find that thing that makes you go out of your way to reach out to others- especially kids.
It’s easy to justify not doing anything as I defy any vss or vsb to find a loose, miscellaneous 2 hours a week or $300 that is just there, waiting to be spent on “the community”. Or asking someone who is looking at the very clear and present danger of being laid off, or someone who is trying to get ahead- with all the hassles and drama that entails to find the strength to add another thing to their full plate. T’aint easy. But! Thing is, I think that the world we inherited is built on communal sacrifice of those who went before us. And the world we’re living in right now, needs are people like you, me and yes- Chardonnay to look outside their narrow interests and invest just a little bit (or a whole lot) into making their immediate world a little bit better.
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MsJay Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:45 am
@Wanjiru,
I agree wholeheartedly. It’s easy to point the finger and to feel superior because some of us managed to pull ourselves out (or were lucky enough never to have been in) the “underclass, ghetto, inner city (choose your favorite)” But for most of us it’s a case of “there but for the grace of god, go I.” They fact is – they are all our children and until each of us is willing to make a commitment to be a role model, a mentor, a tutor or to just talk to them (and not about them using words like spawn and hoodrats), we’ll have many more Derrion Alberts.
Lil'T Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:48 am
@SouthernGirl,
I agree, but only to a point. The sad fact is that most of the kids we would like to help have Ignorance is Bliss Defense Attorneys – their dang parents. I worked in the school system for awhile. Threatening to call a parent will get you laughed out of class. “Call her then – she’ll cuss you out, too!” People are scared to say anything to these kids because the parents back them up 100% on ignorant mess. A mom came into the middle school where I worked a few years ago and cussed out every staff and faculty member including the principal because someone asked her daughter to put a gym shirt over her too-revealing jersey dress.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:31 am
@Lil’T,
Yeah there are the lost causes who just dont wanna be helped, but in my experience there are more parents who are just apathetic or actually encouraging. We cant save em all, but there are def kids who take the guidance and run with it.
SouthernGirl Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:54 am
@Lil’T, i can see what you’re saying, trust me. besides having grown up knowing parents like that myself (not mine but others in the neighborhood), i have a couple of aunts in the school system so i know how it is. but i have to agree with me fail and say that’s not an excuse or reason to not try to do something.
h3ll, years ago one student set my aunt’s hair on fire. she wasn’t seriously injured thank BBJ and though that’s a serious example and an incident that might have pushed some folk, understandably, out of the door but she’s still in there for the ones that want to be better.
not all of our parents are that way and neither are the children. no, everyone is not going to respond to your help but that doesn’t mean you stop trying, right? i can’t tell you what your limit is but you have to try. and if one is a complete lost cause you try again with the next one.
@Wanjiru, yes. aaaaand yes. it can be hard but it’s sooooo worth it. i think some people have a bad impression of what it means to give back and help our children. it’s not always about money. and you might not have a ton of time but make small changes where and when you can. even if it’s one saturday a month or an hour or two a week. that might be the only thing that kid has to look forward to.
Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:10 am
@SouthernGirl,
Straight up. I started off mentoring but then I got tired of walking to the school (I know, I know). Dont you know my kids kept in contact and started asking me to edit essays, help them find jobs and what not. I really became a big sister and I was happy to be there. Just having convos with them about random stuff while I drove them home from a house party means a lot to some kids.
Sula in lalaland Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:24 pm
@Miss Patterson,
Agreed.
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:17 pm
@Miss Patterson,
a better approach would be to promote safe sex/ sex education/behavioral health among our fertile chardonnays & d-blocks.
hasn’t this already been going on for like 50 years though? sh*t, they’re even offering free sex ed classes at the borders in east liberty on wednesday nights
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Miss Patterson Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:25 pm
@The Champ, well excuuuuuse me. maybe you should take your baybays and go to one!
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Why her name gotta be Chardonnay??? Quit hatin on the ethnically named.
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Maximillian Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:02 am
@Liz,
*snicker*
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:18 pm
@Liz,
hate on deez
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i’ll have 14 kids for the cause!
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:21 pm
@drea the educated chick,
lemme find out you’re trying to get your own reality show.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:34 pm
@The Champ,
If ever there was a woman that made me re-think my stance on forced sterilization it’s that goddamn Octo-mom!
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Hmm. Weighty…must ponder.
Initial thoughts are: Nothing would make potential baby daddies & baby mamas unite to rise up against injustice quicker than snatching away their opportunity to endure an angst filled 4 days awaiting the less than prompt arrival of uhm (scanning up) Flirtisha’s menses. Followed closely by the realization that this takes away each individual’s accountability. We all know that once outside the womb, it’s the parents’ job to nurture, equip & train up a child in the way he should go… but why wouldn’t the child also bear some responsibility for their choices into adulthood? Let’s face it, you can be born with the silver spoon, have prototype parents, a Trust Fund awaiting your 21st birthday and STILL be an Eff up!
But yeah, this is weighty. Must ponder.
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AkShone Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:56 am
@bittersweet’s baby,
“Let’s face it, you can be born with the silver spoon, have prototype parents, a Trust Fund awaiting your 21st birthday and STILL be an Eff up!”
True, but that silver spooned eff up will probably have a lot more chances to get it right than the dude that caught a dope charge when he was 15.
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V.E.G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:14 pm
@AkShone,
“that silver spooned eff up will probably have a lot more chances to get it right than the dude that caught a dope charge when he was 15.”
This speaks to societal barriers. The discrepancies in cocaine/crack sentencing in jails, unequal education, all that…can play a part in someone’s station in life.
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Quite honestly.
You’re not obliged to do anything you don’t want to do. But the reason why people “like us” (which is a fully loaded term I might add) are the way we are… is because we’ve taken the time to pull out/pop the pill/get the patch/and unoccupy the uterus…is because we care about the consequences.
It requires tons of self-actualized maturity to not “breed” senselessly. But all people don’t come into the world on a silver platter of a balanced Mom, Dad and extended and upstanding nuclear family. It just doesn’t work that way….
At the same time I won’t ever “feel right” believing that Boom Qui Qui’s kids are born in vain and have no chance. I mean…look at Oprah and Barack (both born to unwed teen parents)….when you look at their lot….they didn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell…yet somehow miracles happen…
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miss t-lee Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 8:20 am
@Melinda,
“I mean…look at Oprah and Barack (both born to unwed teen parents)….when you look at their lot….they didn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell…yet somehow miracles happen…”
You never know how things will go. That’s why I’m always telling folks, you can’t go around mistreating these children. Even if they were born into less than stellar circumstances, you never know what the future holds.
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Smiley Face Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 8:56 am
Who’s to say that offspring of VSS/VBSB’s will turn out any better? Case in point…I went to middle school and high school in Montgomery County, MD (read hoity toity well off folk) guess which kids got into the most trouble? Guess who’s child got shot at a skip party? Ignorance isn’t limited by circumstance.
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Smiley Face Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:02 am
@miss t-lee, I meant to say “I agree”
. (editing skills in the early a.m don’t work too well, lol)
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miss t-lee Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:40 am
@Smiley Face,
I understood chickie.
That edit button is a punk.
Sula in lalaland Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:26 pm
@Melinda,
At the same time I won’t ever “feel right” believing that Boom Qui Qui’s kids are born in vain and have no chance.
Excellent point.
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:22 pm
@Melinda,
welcome and sh*t
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I hate to be the hole in the condom but the whole “us” vs. “them” mentality is some ish. We are as responsible for D-Block’s and Chardonnay’s spawn as we are our own.
Holy novel idea, Batman! We could try a two-fold approach to combating unintentional pregnancies -practical and psychological. Here’s a website that can help: http://www.cicatelli.org/bpapp/default.htm
Beats the hell out of bitching…I mean…blogging.
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Stix Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 8:17 am
@KatrinaME,
I would have to agree, the problem is exagerated by our lack of community thinking, we are all together in this and it truly does take a village to raise a child any child. For those of us who are waiting or not having children we can reach out and help raise D-Block’s and Chardonnay’s children…
Just a thought n shyt.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:13 am
@Stix & Katrina,
Post like these make me proud to comment here.
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Dorian G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:23 am
@Me fail english?, Stix & Katrina,
Allow me to put my cosign.
Sula in lalaland Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:28 pm
@KatrinaME,
Well stated and my sentiments exactly.
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:29 pm
@KatrinaME,
i see your point, but i dont know if i agree with this:
“We are as responsible for D-Block’s and Chardonnay’s spawn as we are our own.”
in fact, i know i don’t. while i agree that we are responsible as humans for the betterment of our surroundings, we don’t hold as much responsibility with every household as we do our own. thats like saying the makers of the hockey mask were just as responsible for everyone jason murked at crystal lake as he was
btw, who you calling a b*tch?
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KatrinaMe Reply:
October 29th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
@The Champ,
Color me delayed, but LOL I didn’t call you a b*tch. I used it as a verb [SMILE].
And yeah, I stand behind what I said: If we feel a certain way about it then we’re just as responsible. If you realize you share enough of the repercussions to write about it here, then it’s safe to assume you share some of the embarrassment, which entitles you to some of the responsibility.
Now while all hockey mask makers may not feel responsible for Jason murking peeps, the one whose brand is on the mask may feel a bit inclined to say something. And so it is w/ D-Block and Chardonnay’s babies: our brand is on the mask.
Whoa. I think I just killed your rebuttal…
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Eh…it’s a tough issue. I know people “more like us” who also shouldn’t procreate, just as I know some poorer parents who’ve turned potential hoodrats into Huxtable reincarnations…It really all depends.
I think the more difficult question is why “we” can’t find suitable partners that we’re willing to settle down with…
This isn’t just an issue in the black community, either. The non-Hispanic birth rate has plummeted…and w/ the influx of Hispanic immigrants coming in (who are statistically less educated and poorer) we’re creating a world with little balance.
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:34 pm
@Joe E,
I think the more difficult question is why “we” can’t find suitable partners that we’re willing to settle down with…
good question. any takers?
welcome and sh*t, btw
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klysha Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:56 pm
@Joe E,
“I think the more difficult question is why “we” can’t find suitable partners that we’re willing to settle down with…”
and therein lies the crux of the matter
Do I think we need to be linking up all willy nilly and procreating?? Of course not!
Do I think the so called educated among us have issues? Yes. We’re sitting around waiting for perfect circumstances and perfect people to marry when the reality is these perfect circumstances and people do not exist.
I’m guilty here too since I’m just a few weeks shy of 33 single and childless and not trying to get knocked up for the good of the community.
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You all saw the first 10 minutes of “Idiocracy”, right?
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Kit (Keep It Trill) Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 8:00 am
“You all saw the first 10 minutes of “Idiocracy”, right?”
I began to leave a serious comment, but it became too long, so instead I wrote a post. Thank you, Champ, and Unlikely Scholar for the inspiration. Find it here:
Spreading Your Genes In The Right Places
Please leave a comment there if you have time to read it. Thanks,
~ Kit
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Unlikely Scholar Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:23 pm
@Kit (Keep It Trill),
No doubt.
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klysha Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:04 pm
@Unlikely Scholar, That was the first thing that came to mind when I read this post!
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:35 pm
@Unlikely Scholar,
you know what? ive seen bits and pieces of that movie, but not all the way through
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Ra-Ra Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:54 pm
@The Champ,
You’ve gotta see Idiocracy. It perfectly gels with this post (especially the first 10 minutes). And how could you not watch a movie about a world that includes a Black President and a pimp named “Upgrade”. LOL
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my highschool had a very high pregnancy rate however a lot of that was because girls that got pregnant at the “good schools” were sent or it was “suggested’ that they come to my school for their pregnancy because our school was better prepared to handle those issues due to the clinic and on staff nurse (which were on staff because our school housed a community clinic)…so I would be interested to know how many are transfers? what is the rate of the district? how old are they, how many have been left behind, does this include special needs? those type of things before I go all crazy on the school.
As far as this educated/hood baby thing
you know I understand the point..b ut coming from the hood and having family and friends with crack head parents, single mothers, gang violence, hell my own parents had issues and while I know a lot of my peers fell off, not all or most of them. I hate the assumption that being born in the hood to a single mother= no hope in life. Does it make it harder? Yes, definitely. Is the playing field equal? No however even with that many can and do become productive members of society. And lets not forget, educated middle class people produce aint shyt offsprings too…
I know thats not the point of the post but I have had this discussion a lot the past couple of days and the classist us against them mentality many of my fellow “educated” “gainfully employed” brethren have had makes me sick to my stomach…the answer aint having middle and upper class america have kids to make up for the aint shyt hood kids, instead of looking down our noses and counting them out lets think of ways to give them and their parents a chance. Some of them might be lost causes, all of them are not.
and before anyone else says it, yes this is one of my push button issues so there is a lot of this response based on my personal issues/feelings
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SaneN85 Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:21 am
@shay_d_lady, I completely agree. My own mother would have probably been classified as one of the people described in this post. I don’t really believe that everyone has to succumb to their upbringing/environment. Look at a number of kids shooting up schools who have your typical nice suburban lives, and the number of well-educated prosperous folk that came from the hood. Besides, not every young mother has a hopeless future, and can become successful and raise a successful child. There are really too many elements to consider on this topic and I understand why it presses some buttons for you.
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Smiley Face Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:08 am
@shay_d_lady, I’m the baby of 13…trust..I understand fully.Some of us “made it” some of us didn’t..had nothing to do with what we were or weren’t given, or where we lived it had a lot to do with what we wanted to use and where we wanted to go..if you want “it” bad enough, you’ll make it happen regardless.
*btw…my sister went to a school that sounds a lot like yours…(Shaw?)
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:26 am
@Smiley Face,
Girl they got those schools all over. One of the local high schools I used to live by had a clinic & daycare center and all the pregnant girls in that section of the borough wound up going there for the free childcare (a MAJOR expense). They’d either go there or get shipped to Madonna Heights.
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IVR Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:43 am
@Me fail english?, “Girl they got those schools all over. One of the local high schools I used to live by had a clinic & daycare center and all the pregnant girls in that section of the borough wound up going there for the free childcare (a MAJOR expense). ”
Is this Clara Barton? We had another quite unsavory term for that school . . .
CrissieD Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:27 am
@IVR, Clarabortion and lets not forget Prostitute Heights lol
IVR Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:32 pm
@CrissieD, ” Clarabortion and lets not forget Prostitute Heights lol”
YES! LoL! My old zoned school (shocked me because Boys & Girls is a lot closer)
Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:20 am
@shay_d_lady,
“And lets not forget, educated middle class people produce aint shyt offsprings too…
I know thats not the point”
Oh but I think it IS part of the point. Our generations, X &Y (or “why?” , depending on who you ask), for the most part aren’t doing better than our parents. That’s across the board racially and socioeconomically. So beyond the obvious social insensitivity the 1984 plan suggests, its just not a practical way to reach the end goal.
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:40 pm
@shay_d_lady,
I know thats not the point of the post but I have had this discussion a lot the past couple of days and the classist us against them mentality many of my fellow “educated” “gainfully employed” brethren have had makes me sick to my stomach…the answer aint having middle and upper class america have kids to make up for the aint shyt hood kids, instead of looking down our noses and counting them out lets think of ways to give them and their parents a chance. Some of them might be lost causes, all of them are not.
i actually think this topic (the us vs them discussion), not racism or poverty or education, will be the main “issue” facing black america in the next 20-30 years.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:43 pm
@The Champ,
How do you think “us vs. them” differs from poverty/education debates?
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Sula in lalaland Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:19 pm
@Me fail english?,
Good question which ties into what The Champ calls “us” and what he defines as “them”.
So the champ, what makes someone “us” or “them”?
The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:15 pm
@Sula in lalaland,
So the champ, what makes someone “us” or “them”?
home or away jerseys
The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:23 pm
@Me fail english?,
How do you think “us vs. them” differs from poverty/education debates?
because the class issue combines each of them, taking full advantage of some of the mental and physical chasms created by the differences in income and education. i mean, in black america today, for the first time you can say that there are many, many people that have truly “made it”, while there’s also those who aren’t even close.
plus, the poverty and education issues don’t directly affect all of us. there are some of us so completely insulated that the problems of “black america” (crime, poverty, etc) aren’t their problems at all, and havent been for a couple decades, generations even. the class battle effects everyone though
Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:36 pm
@The Champ,
So these two paragraphs are meant to read: “It’s a combination of them”. Thanks
shay_d_lady Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:19 pm
@The Champ, I agree totally champ. the Us v them, is probably one of the biggest problems facing black america.
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I also wanna say too… who are these fathers too… like the f!cked up thing about teen pregnancy is the women are solely held accountable. Everybody aint on that “not the fatha” shyt and dont know who their baby daddies is. Who are these ninjas, how many men report being fathers in this same school/district?
Also lets hold the dudes that come “slummin” from the good schools and shyt and then run and hide on some cain I used a jimmy and had it on extra tight shyt accountable too…
all these chicks aint pregnant by man man and ray ray there are a lot of aint shyt jordan, Chris, and Nathans’ too…but all they a$$ need to be held accountable….
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V.E.G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:55 am
@shay_d_lady,
I co-sign this on so many levels.
My mom is a social worker who works with former welfare recipients, many of whom have several children. And I worked in the policy field when Clinton signed the welfare reform act in ‘96.
It’s amazing how people can so easily discount those based on their situation – poor, lots of kids, under or uneducated – and not realize how hard it is for them to make ends meet. Yes, life choices played a part in their situation but so did societal barriers. And it’s the societal barriers many of us forget about.
It’s easy for folks to act like they were born on third and just walked to home plate. But the reality is that many of us VSS’ and VSB’s were not…we had to find our way to the dugout and along the way there was a helping hand – a teacher who went out of her way, an after school program, an employer who supported your mom/dad while they went to grad school at night so they could make a better life for you…something.
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SouthernGirl Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:45 pm
@V.E.G.,
yessssss.
but you know my family own dooky chase restaurant. *snicker*
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V.E.G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:14 pm
@SouthernGirl,
HA!
Smiley Face Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:10 am
@shay_d_lady,
Amen!
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:46 pm
@shay_d_lady,
I also wanna say too… who are these fathers too… like the f!cked up thing about teen pregnancy is the women are solely held accountable. Everybody aint on that “not the fatha” shyt and dont know who their baby daddies is. Who are these ninjas, how many men report being fathers in this same school/district?
i’d bet that for every pregnant girl there there’s .6 or .7 fathers. basically, it wouldn’t surprise me if there more than a few guys who had multiple buns currently in the oven
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Well I’ve always felt that one of my major purposes here on this earth is to procreate && I think it’s really important for educated/successful brothas and sistas to play a role in mentoring/raising/guiding black children. You don’t have to have kids of you own to play a role in raising a child. You can serve as a mentor to your nieces/nephews, friends kids, or reach out to the larger community.
Too many children go through their youth feeling unloved and unimportant. My mother works in special education and the children she works with are classified as emotionally unstable but are all average to above average. Although the children are all intelligent, most of them do poorly because of their home situations. Many come from abusive households, poor households, or are in foster care. I’ve watched my mom work with her kids on a number of occasions and most educators think these children are difficult and hard to work with but my mom never seems to have any problems with them. They listen to her and they respect her. Why? Because she actually shows that she cares for them and values them and she hasn’t given up on them. I feel like many people have just given up on the “bad” part of the black community and the only reason why many care is because they feel like it makes them look bad but we’ve stopped caring for the people themselves and lost empathy. We fail to see things from their perspective and understand that situations occurred in their life that lead them to this point.
I’ll stop there because I lost myself and I don’t know what my point is anymore…lol.
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:47 pm
@Anonymiss,
lol, i got your point. mentorship and sh*t is extremely important
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In an age where women seem “lazy” if she becomes a house wife, where women are taking on careers that men are usually in the forefront of, as well as where settling down seems to always be “too early”, there seems to be no room. It’s almost as if all these women are getting pregnant because they aren’t working towards a goal. Educated men and women are looking a head, while hood-rats and hounds are looking around the corner.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:31 am
@Neka W.,
“It’s almost as if all these women are getting pregnant because they aren’t working towards a goal.”
Alot of times that IS the goal though. To become a good mother and raise a family. They’re not always doing what I would do in the same situation, but a lot of the teenage mothers that I knew werent being careless so much as they had a plan and if it came to fruition earlier than expected…keep the party going.
The young men on the other hand…like Shay said up top, I havent noticed any real diffs between teenage babydaddies and non-babydaddies. At least not in terms of maturity/responsibility. A lot of the guys that escaped adolesence with no children have responsible girls to thank for that.
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Unlikely Scholar Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:31 pm
@Me fail english?,
“A lot of the guys that escaped adolesence with no children have responsible girls to thank for that.”
…or the ability to dictate the terms of their reality.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:35 pm
@Unlikely Scholar,
We’re clearly not speaking about the same guys.
V.E.G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:38 pm
@Me fail english?,
“A lot of the guys that escaped adolesence with no children have responsible girls to thank for that.”
Say that, chile. I know some straight A honor roll student guys in h.s. who got chicks knocked up and bounced on ‘em. He went to school and she was left struggling.
It is the girls who tend to hold the cards in this situation, unfortunately. Not saying the boys are not responsible or shouldn’t be held accountable but we need to teach our girls how to, as Unlikely Scholar said, “dictate the terms of their reality” and make those fools strap up or step off.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:55 pm
@V.E.G.,
Amen to all this. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Neka W. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:34 pm
@Me fail english?,
This is true about the maturity level of these babydaddies. The woman is always the one to be judged as if she created this child on her own. So much more is expected from her as she is the one that gave birth to the child.
I strongly dislike knowing that there are teenagers that plan on being parents early in life but not of how they will support them.
Teenage parenting is the up and running theme in Bronx. New York. I’m 20 years old and know so many girls younger than myself with children, one being a cousin of mine.
Her and I both came from the same place (Kingston, Jamaica) but we both went about life differently once we moved to NY. She got pregnant at 15 while I was in the honors society. I always tried to be there for her and push her in the right direction, but some habits die hard.
When I first moved here I will admit that I was heavily influenced by violence and hadn’t thought of changing that. When I begun going to school here, and realized that life doesn’t always have to be a struggle, I changed my ways. I had supportive teachers , something a lot of schools are lacking now a days.
I know this young woman who works with kids in Brooklyn and whenever I ask about them she goes “Does it matter? They ain’t going anywhere.” If I had someone with the likes of her, who knows, I might have turned out differently.
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:49 pm
@Neka W.,
welcome and sh*t
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Neka W. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:06 pm
@The Champ,
Haha. Thanks. I use to read a while back then I got eaten by my bio textbook.
It recently regurgitated me out.
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As someone said earlier, this whole question reeks of the “Talented Tenth” and the idea of that, frankly disgusts me.
I mean, really…is any life more important than the next? And, if someone comes from less than ambitious parents in a less than upscale neighborhood, does that mean they won’t have something to contribute to society?
Not all VSB’s and VSS’s came from two parent, middle class households. In fact, the struggle can create some very bright people. And it won’t matter if one bit if ALL the VSB’s and VSS’s got together and reproduced…if we don’t reach back and help those less fortunate than us. And I know quite a few older VSB/VSS couples with a kid in prison/on drugs, etc.
In an ideal world, folks would practice self love and respect and not bring children into this world they aren’t 100% ready to take care of. But let’s be honest – middle and upper class people do this to. The only difference is they have more money at their disposal. But if the love and concern for their children isn’t there, the result is the same.
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Wanjiru Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:30 am
@V.E.G.,
Cosigning (with caveat).
I agree with you that we should move away from the idea that suburban kids are worth more than Chardonnay’s . I mean, my folks and most of their friends are the proverbial ‘pulled themselves up the bootstraps’ people- and if you looked at where they came from, it would have been all too easy to dismiss them as people who would never amount to anything. So, that’s my heritage- poor grandparents who had many kids- but loved them and brought them up right- and somehow, someway, these kids turned out pretty darn good.
Here’s where I run into difficulty though. On the one hand, I can’t sit down in judgment of other grown folks’ reproductive decisions because I can’t imagine someone trying to tell me how many kids I should have as (if I may misquote the vernacular) I wish an African would! On the other hand, I can’t tell you how much it irks me to be invited for a baby shower for baby #4- when the folks just hit me up for the n’th installment of school fees, rent, shoes and uniform for baby 1 through 3. I’m already, will or nil, invested in the fate of the first three. Can I just shrug it off and say “Eh, eff it- they ain’t my kids”? For sure— but I find myself incapble of doing so (yet). I have drunk the kool aid/ been brainwashed/ societally programmed/ have a messiah complex whatever… but I’m invested in trying to give them a fighting chance and also, quite selfishly, in making sure they’re off my dime after they become employable so that their kids do not go on my future, hypothetical kid’s household budgets.
So, I know and know and know again- that these kids deserve a fighting chance- but flawed human me is also irked at the fact that the status of my cousin’s belly (fatty foods or baby #5? hmmmmm?) is now part of what I have to add to my (already full) list of things to worry about.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:37 am
@V.E.G.,
“In an ideal world, folks would practice self love and respect and not bring children into this world they aren’t 100% ready to take care of. But let’s be honest – middle and upper class people do this to.”
Truth. I’m trying to think of examples of anybody I know planning a pregnancy. I came up with a bunch of 38+ year old 2520 coworkers and one cousin. For the majority of people I know its a surprise (ie. Nobody’s being all that “responsible”).
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V.E.G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:28 pm
@Me fail english?,
Right. My married friend and her husband ‘mess around’ w/o protection every now and then. She says ‘if a baby happens…ok’. Who plans pregnancies anymore?
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Sula in lalaland Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:42 pm
@V.E.G.,
Pretty much.
I mean, really…is any life more important than the next?
Excellent question that needs to be asked around the Pentagon as well… but that’s a whole different issue altogether.
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:53 pm
@V.E.G.,
another question: what constitutes a ‘good” parent? i mean, is it based on resources, love, being practical, or how “successful” your kids end up?
this is one of those questions like “what makes a good teacher” that there’s no real clear answer to (imo)
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I’m 21 years old, and going to a high school where half the girls of my incoming freshman class came IN with babies…this doesn’t surprise me. Saddens me a lot, but it’s not surprising.
I don’t think it’s right to say one life is more/less important than the next, but I believe we have a duty to ourselves, our offspring, and condom factories to be responsible in our reproduction habits… If you know that you know that you KNOW you don’t have any money, skills, or any business whatsoever to be posing as a parent, why not take precautions? Most of these girls out here are having babies because they need somebody to love, or to love them, and half of them can’t wipe their own behinds right, let alone someone else’s! Why would you want to bring a child into this crazy world we live in, knowing you can barely take care of yourself? To some of these girls, babies are just accessories and a reason to throw a shower and get free stuff.
PS: Is it bad that as soon as I read this blog I thought about Neffe (Keyshia Cole’s sister)…?
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:56 pm
@RockSteddyBaby,
PS: Is it bad that as soon as I read this blog I thought about Neffe (Keyshia Cole’s sister)…?
not at all. in fact, thats one of her kids in the pic at the top
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Just wanted to point out that my very good friend and her two sisters were raised in affordable housing by their single mom. Their dad was and still is a crack head. She and her two sisters all finished college; two of them have graduate degrees.
My step brother was raised (until he started college) in a two-parent household by his college educated parents. He is strung out and I see him often begging for change on the street.
Based on your theory, your money would have been on my step-brother. And you’d have lost.
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:01 pm
@V.E.G.,
Based on your theory, your money would have been on my step-brother. And you’d have lost.
while this is true, i’d probably make a ton of money if i were told of 100 such scenarios and continued to put my money on the step-brother.
exceptions matter, but trends matter a bit more.
btw, like i said downthread, its not “my” theory as much as its a discussion prompt.
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V.E.G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:16 pm
@The Champ,
“trends matter a bit more”
true.
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I agree with those who mentioned that this problem needs to be handled with education and awareness. I feel lucky to have been raised with the “school-marriage-babies (in that order)” list of things to do, and I incorporate it into how I live, but so many people don’t and I believe this is a generational disconnect. We’re talking about today’s generations of babies having babies, but keep in mind that someone in yesterday’s generation must have dropped the ball somewhere if they’re children are the one’s we’re speaking of. Not trying to put blame anywhere, but the same way the ball was dropped, it can be picked back up by those who are raising the next generation of children…people just need to be educated and made aware, and make conscious decisions regarding their lives and the lives they bring into the world…
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:02 pm
@RockSteddyBaby,
We’re talking about today’s generations of babies having babies, but keep in mind that someone in yesterday’s generation must have dropped the ball somewhere if they’re children are the one’s we’re speaking of.
where do you think that happened?
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After reading this post and all the comments afterwards it made me pause for a second. Do people who have “sense” really need to have children to “balance out” all the the hoodrats? No, I don’t think so. Like others have commented, if we would reach out into our community and lend a helping hand so to speak, I think some of these “hoodrats” would turn out to be productive citizens. I work with underprivileged children for a long time, and that’s what they are children. They aren’t adults. They need to be taught, cultivated, and loved on in order to grow. If we give up on them while they are young, it’ll be like planting a crop, and then refuse to water it, till it, let it become overrun with weeds and then when it doesn’t produce edible, quality vegetation, we blame the plants. Instead, of having children when we aren’t ready (which is mainly why we have this problem) we should volunteer a little of our precious time and invest it in our future. You never know how you can impact a kid just by spending a couple of hours with them a week. We just might change the path of a couple of kids lives. Let us influence them, not the other garbage that they are constantly bombarded with.
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Smiley Face Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:16 am
@Naturalbarbie,
ITA!!! I’m trying to work with my niece now about this (my sister is about to wring her neck and is just tired)..chile it ain’t easy but I can’t give up on her.
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:06 pm
@Naturalbarbie,
If we give up on them while they are young, it’ll be like planting a crop, and then refuse to water it, till it, let it become overrun with weeds and then when it doesn’t produce edible, quality vegetation, we blame the plants
do you think there’s an age where you can officially say “enough is enough. i’m out”?
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@V.E.G.
Agreed.
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Oh, I’m not blaming it only on the uneducated/hood, but that is what my post was specifically about. I wouldn’t call that particular sister hood or uneducated (maybe a little ignorant), there’s a little more involved there and trust that you don’t want me to write that novel here. I brought up her abortions because when we discuss her lack of birth control, she brings up how easy it is raising the 3 kids she has. She doesn’t have to work, can go out every night every weekend, and doesn’t stress about bills, etc. All of these reasons for her lack of birth control stem from the help she receives financially. If she didn’t have that help and it wasn’t that easy, she’d probably get her happy a** on some birth control. I know that there are educated women who are having multiple abortions, but it just didn’t have much to do with what I was trying to say.
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Damn it, this went in the wrong spot
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SaneN85 Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:34 am
@SaneN85, damn it, this did too.
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V.E.G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:38 am
@SaneN85,
lol.
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:09 pm
@SaneN85,
Damn it, this went in the wrong spot
thats what she said
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Sanen85 Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:31 pm
@The Champ, Lol
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The picture is awful. Just awful. What is that baby in? And a car is coming!!! Awful.
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SaneN85 Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:56 am
@V.E.G., Maybe they’re playing a game or the parent is trying to toughen up the girl by putting her in dangerous situations and expecting her stay calm under pressure. Who knows?
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V.E.G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:01 am
@SaneN85,
I once had to cuss a bish out – from the safety of my car, through my only slightly rolled down window, of course – for yelling at me for almost hitting her kid. SHE let the kid – a toddler – out on the traffic side of the street and let it run into traffic while she got shopping bags out the car.
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SaneN85 Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:05 am
@V.E.G., only once? Give it time, give it time.
Safety of your car with the window only slightly rolled down? Mmmh, sounds like you let her know about herself. LOL.
V.E.G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:29 am
@SaneN85,
I did. I told her good. lol.
Nicki Sunshine Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 8:11 am
@V.E.G., I’m just dying that you referred to the child as “it”. lol
Wanjiru Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:43 am
@V.E.G.,
Looks like those tote crate thingies the Post Office gives you for bulk mailing. That picture broke my heart— the baby is about to tip over and fall out of the crate/ tote thingie… At least the baby looks warmly dressed- so there’s that at least.
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V.E.G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:49 am
@Wanjiru,
And the coat is cute. That’s important. And her hair looks ‘done’.
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Wanjiru Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:03 am
@V.E.G.,
yeah, you’re right… nothing but lowest common denominator stuff to congratulate. And when you factor the fact there’s bound to be a driver who will be doing 60 mph when he should be doing 20? Awful, awful, awful picture.
Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:44 am
@V.E.G.,
lmao! This picture reminds me of me with my Dad. When I was kindergarten age my mom worked and my Dad would pick me up from school and take me around while he did his hoodrat stuff. I never wound up in a mail crate, but the stuff I wound up eating/wearing/seeing/playing with as a result of hanging around a buncha old ghetto ass men is legendary.
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Cheekie Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:59 am
@V.E.G.,
For a split second, I thought that was Angelina’s daughter, Zahara….
Anyhow, she’s a cutie. But yeah, I eek’ed at the car coming!
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Sula in lalaland Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:43 pm
@V.E.G.,
The picture is awful. Just awful
You see awful, I see resource-ful… Clearly, life gave this parent a crate of lemons, and s/he made a stroller!!!
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I’m not sure where this notion of “reaching back and helping” the less fortunate as a cure-all comes from. Most of us are in no position to help Flirtisha’nem in any real, meaningful way. The “help” associated with ’spending a couple of hours with a poor kid’ reminds me of those people who have been negatively affected by the recession that wake up and say “I guess I’ll just teach…they’re always hiring”. Da hell?? What makes you think you’re qualified?
That being said, *channeling Whoopi* there’s help, and then there’s HELP HELP
Sure, there are folks with potential but there are others who make conscious (not societal/socio-economic) CHOICES on a regular basis that eliminate any hope of ever becoming a VSB/VSS.
Lastly, can I just pernt out that I never hear whyte people talk like this. I don’t see posts from communities of educated 2520’s offering to ‘help’ Balloon Boy’s parents. Trust me, I’ve looked lol. I don’t see posts from degreed 2520’s saying maybe we should have more kids to make up for the inevitable screwed upness of John and Kate’s 8. Why black folks always gotta create their own guilt trip?? Aren’t our mama’s enough? lol
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pgh muse Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 5:47 am
@Tastes Like Snozzberries, I don’t see posts from degreed 2520’s saying maybe we should have more kids to make up for the inevitable screwed upness of John and Kate’s 8
Some white folks’ ancestors also didn’t have a problem colonizing and enslaving millions of Africans. I’m just saying.
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Smiley Face Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:18 am
@pgh muse,
*clapping* Say that!
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Smiley Face Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:20 am
@pgh muse,
Also why do ‘we’ always have to bring up what ‘other’ folks are doing…? So what, what do they have to do with it? This is not about them. It always feels like passing the buck.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:47 am
@Smiley Face,
Thank you. I’m tryna figure out why he/she even mentioned this as if white folks are the gold standard for what we should be doing.
Tastes Like Snozzberries Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:51 am
@Smiley Face, Also why do ‘we’ always have to bring up what ‘other’ folks are doing…? So what, what do they have to do with it? This is not about them.
Exactly. And in this case, Flirtisha is an ‘other’ to me. The only thing we have in common is our melanin and shared histroy. The proverbial buck stops there.
V.E.G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:08 pm
@Tastes Like Snozzberries,
Your reply here makes me sad on so many levels.
pgh muse Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:34 pm
@Tastes Like Snozzberries, The only thing we have in common is our melanin and shared histroy.
To you that may not seem like much, but to me that is a lot, brotha
IVR Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:54 am
@Smiley Face, “Also why do ‘we’ always have to bring up what ‘other’ folks are doing…? So what, what do they have to do with it? This is not about them. It always feels like passing the buck.”
Not to incite a riot or anything. . . .but it’s not about them, it’s about us . . . who exactly is “us”?
Smiley Face Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:15 am
@IVR, that’s why I put it in quotes….
pgh muse Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:32 am
@IVR, I would say that “us” are the children of Africa. The children of the African diaspora… or maybe just the “us” are the children of the community you grew up in, or the children of your own actual blood family maybe… but they are all linked.
Tastes Like Snozzberries Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:55 am
@pgh muse, I get where you’re going. But I wasn’t trying to say that everything white folks’ do is what we should do. Nor that it is the gold standard. It was a comparison. And I think my ultimate point was that this “issue” is not unique to ‘us’, but the way that we look to handle it may just be.
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Melinda Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:50 am
@Tastes Like Snozzberries,
I see your point. And I think on the sneak tip most black folks struggle with this inner tug of war. Our African/community/it takes a village gene instinctually (most times) kicks in and knows that the parts affect the whole…and our colonized/capitalist/american hearts wants to isolate/judge/and not have to feel responsible for the bullshit choices that weakminded/drug addicted/losers/trash/poor people/ignorant people/asshats tend to make cause they’re…well…human….
there’s an integral part to being an American that likes to point the/ wag the finger/judge/make fun of others at their own expense/…it allows people to feel a false sense of superiority….
I live in NYC and the homeless are everywhere. Somedays I’ll have a heart and I’ll throw $5 dollars in a tin cup…and if you catch me on the wrong day… I just want beggars to fall off the face of the earth…
And Cheah. 2520’s might not reach one to teach one but they also shouldn’t be used as a measuring stick for humanity.
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pgh muse Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:00 am
@Melinda, And Cheah. 2520’s might not reach one to teach one
They do. It’s just called nepotism, legacies, and every other word used to keep generational wealth circulating in a certain pot.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:34 am
@Melinda,
$5? Fi’h dollahs?! Aww hell naw.
*Stakes out Melinda’s train, tin cup in hand*
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Melinda Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:44 am
@Me fail english?,
hahahahaha….
that Melinda train runs every couple of months….most times I pretend like I don’t even hear homeless folks shaking that tin cup…sometimes I get a case of the guilts and sometimes (even tho rare) I can have the passion of Stalin.
Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:51 am
@Melinda,
Girl even when I feel guilty, the most they get is $3. And they gotta be doin a good routine with an adorable girl in afro puffs. ( I LUUURVE little girls with afro puffs).
IVR Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:52 am
@Tastes Like Snozzberries, “Lastly, can I just pernt out that I never hear whyte people talk like this. I don’t see posts from communities of educated 2520’s offering to ‘help’ Balloon Boy’s parents.”
Werd . . . I have looked also.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:58 am
@Tastes Like Snozzberries,
“Most of us are in no position to help Flirtisha’nem in any real, meaningful way.”
You sound like you’ve never benefitted from a mentor/tutor/role model. That, or you’ve never been one. In any event, as someone who’s been on both sides of the equation, I assure you, you’re wrong.
On being a mentee: My parents were born in the 50s, both from the projects, grew up poor and raised by blue collar parents. Ergo, they still dont have this whole “How to ascend the corporate ladder” thing down their damn selves. I’m much better at it than them. Know why? Cause someone pulled my coat and I listened. I was taught my work ethic. Taught the art of negotiation. Taught professionalism…by people who probably spent less than a “couple of hours a week”.
On being a mentor: You’d be surprised how little some people (young and old) know and how much you’d be able to teach. You’d be even more surprised how inspiring you are to someone. Fr’instance, I’ve had people I taught remark to me how surprised they were that I had a good job but didnt talk with a “white accent”. Like “Really there are black ppl making money who pretend to like quiche or talk like Carlton?” Don’t get me started on all the ppl I’ve encountered who didn’t know college was a viable option because they didnt know how financial aid worked.
If you think that doesnt make a difference to ppl I suggest you try your hand at volunteering. Not just a soup kitchen but a real teaching experience. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.
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Tastes Like Snozzberries Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:23 am
@Me fail english?, Know why? Cause someone pulled my coat and I listened.
And you LISTENED. Probably because your parents taught you how to LISTEN. I think this is the biggest difference between ‘us’ and ‘them’. The lessons from their parental were of the hustlin’ nature. Hustlers don’t have time to listen, they’re too busy hustlin!
I relate to your story. My parents grew up poor too. My dad has permanent callouses from picking cotton that now they rest quite comfortably on his luxury car because the folks around him (he didn’t have parents) taught him the same valuable lesson.
There are those who can make it. Then there are those who can’t because, well, they never learned to be still and just listen. No matter how many hours of mentoring I do, that trait may not change for that person. So I’ve learned to accept that. I absolutely mentor I just focus my energies differently. As a result, everybody under the ‘poor and uneducated’ umbrella doesn’t get my attention. They’re not buying what I’m selling.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:41 am
@Tastes Like Snozzberries,
“everybody under the ‘poor and uneducated’ umbrella doesn’t get my attention.”
If by “Flirtisha n’em” we mean people who are content to do antisocial stuff then yeah. I see your point and I agree completely. I’ve actually quit quite a few programs because the directors would tolerate clients just showing up even thought they didnt wanna do isht.
But as it relates to the post, I took “them” to mean Flirtisha and her many, many children that “we” should counterbalance. And some of her kids do wanna listen. My dad is one of the would-be cyclebreakers who didnt get far away from where he started because he had no mentors (unless you count my mom, lol) in his corner.
klysha Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:14 pm
@Tastes Like Snozzberries, 2520s actually did cover this in the begining part of Idiocracy… pointed out how the educated people were waiting to have kids while the “less educated” were popping out kids left and right….
Plus white people don’t really have this problem to the same degree….from my observation they are hooking up marrying and procreating at a much healthier rate than the so called “educated” black folks. There are so many other issues at play here…and I’d really have to take off all political correctness hats to address them… (but I never wear a political correctness hat anyway)
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:14 pm
@Tastes Like Snozzberries,
welcome and sh*t, and way to start with a bang, lol
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Ah! @ TastesLikeSnozberries, you make a great reference to the whole John/Kate+8 mess.
BTW> what do you call the ‘heavily suggested’ (read=FORCED) use of Norplant birth control amongst Black welfare mothers? Things have been a bit 1984ish for awhile now.
Personally, I feel if you don’t have the true urge to have kids= then don’t contribute to overpopulation just for the sake of hoping your spawn will become the “Morpheus” or “Black Neo” of the neighborhood.
If you want them, don’t wait TOO late. Having an adolescent in your home that you’re too old and worn out to play with= COLUMBINE KIDS (A child who turns to false environments to resolve it’s emotional conflict, therefore can’t deal w/ the real world).
That’s right, not the Cabbage Patch Kids, Columbine Kids!
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:16 pm
@GeekChicness,
BTW> what do you call the ‘heavily suggested’ (read=FORCED) use of Norplant birth control amongst Black welfare mothers? Things have been a bit 1984ish for awhile now.
touche and sh*t
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My solution to this problem is very simple. Give any one 10 thousand dollars to have a voluntary sterilisation procedure. If the takers wish to procreate, they simply have to pay back the money and the procedure will be reversed. This will be very simple and much more cost effective than any goverment program ever divised. Every hood rat, hoochie mama, stoner, thug and trailer trash would dive at the cash.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:09 am
@flinchuma,
“Every hood rat, hoochie mama, stoner, thug and trailer trash would dive at the cash.”
This is assuming that nobody from these groups really wants to be parents….
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Dorian G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:35 am
@flinchuma,
This is honestly the dumbest and most offensive thing I’ve read on here. Thanks for that.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:38 am
@Dorian G.,
*dead*
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V.E.G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:12 pm
@flinchuma,
God bless you, sweetie.
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miss t-lee Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:15 pm
@V.E.G.,
*giggling*
I wanted to say “Bless Your Heart”.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:24 pm
@miss t-lee,
LOL. I love Southern women. Yall make disdain feel like Mother’s love *feels warm*
V.E.G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:30 pm
@Me fail english?,
It’s a gift.
miss t-lee Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:46 pm
@Me fail english?,
LOL!! It’s definitely something that you learn in your home training.
The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:20 pm
@flinchuma,
welcome and sh*t, and thanks for spoiling the premise of my secret phD work
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I would kinda like a definition of who “People Like Us” is, Champ… but I definitely don’t think people should have kids when they aren’t ready, just for the sake of possibly balancing out the community. I think a better option would probably be to sacrifice some time and mentor a few young people in the hood. A lot of peoples bad decision making is borne of ignorance and not seeing anyone around you living any differently.
About forced sterilization – I don’t think it’s such a bad idea. Maybe after the system having to intervene in a household so many times, a woman maybe should be forced to get an IUD or the Depo shot. Those aren’t permanent, and she would then really have to think about her behavior. People don’t change a lot of times unless they have to.
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pgh muse Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 6:13 am
@pgh muse, And forced vasectomies for those unaccountable baby daddies. Can’t leave the fellas out lol.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:11 am
@pgh muse,
Ha. Yeah the definition eludes me to. A lot of us (vsb-ers) belong to both groups…or neither.
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Smiley Face Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:14 am
@Me fail english?,
Exactly…who, what, when where and how do we draw the line?
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:21 pm
@pgh muse,
I would kinda like a definition of who “People Like Us” is, Champ
me too, muse. me too.
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That picture is sooooo crazy! And perfect for the post. Job well done Champy!
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:22 pm
@cayenne,
thanks and sh8t, cayenney
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There is no way I can put myself into the position, being unmarried, undegreed (yet!), selfish, etc., in the position to have some babies, just for the sake of saving my race. I am not ready.. and my child would prolly be raised by my parents and grandparents. I still need sleep! lol
Maybe some of those hoodrat spawn will go in an entirely different direction and end up being our doctors and lawyers?
One of my girls was not born into the best of situations and she made lemonade, so I cannot believe that people cannot change their destiny.
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pgh muse Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 8:40 am
@Nicki Sunshine, One of my girls was not born into the best of situations and she made lemonade, so I cannot believe that people cannot change their destiny.
Amen. Most of the successful people I know today came out of the hood – the unsuccessful ones too… i digress tho. One of my ob/gynes was a sista who had her oldest son at 16. She’s now an MD -and this isn’t the only story like this I know. There are plenty.
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Nicki Sunshine Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:02 am
@pgh muse, Exactly- sometimes their situation inspires them to do better.
Sometimes people who were born in situations that were a little more idea, rest on that. They don’t work as hard because they don’t have to.
Not saying it happens all the time, but it does.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:13 am
@pgh muse,
My cousin and his girl got pregnant at 16. They’re now married with a smart, well-adjusted 10 year old. She’s an ob-gyn (haha, smthg bout those teenage moms) and he’s in a mgmt level IT position with a Fortune 100 firm.
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:28 pm
@Me fail english?,
lol, you’re the “exception to the rule” queen. seriously, you must personally know at least 75 different people who were former crack babies who went to prison, broke out of jail and started going to college classes butt naked while doing meth, but are now lawyers/doctors/presidents.
Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:35 pm
@The Champ,
Not really. I just know and share close relationships with people who are not exactly like me.
Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Hit the button too quick and “edit” went away. But I wanted to say you sound like you socialize beyond a very homogenous (sheltered?) group (or dont socialize much at all) which might explain your conservative views. Feel free to branch out.
overit Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:23 pm
@The Champ, lol, you’re the “exception to the rule” queen. seriously, you must personally know at least 75 different people who were former crack babies who went to prison, broke out of jail and started going to college classes butt naked while doing meth, but are now lawyers/doctors/presidents.
i often relate to mefail’s experiences/comments. i have seen my share of “success” stories and its mainly because i move past the have vs. have nots dynamic and engage with folks who are making their way in that grey area.
besides, mefail is from nyc, if ever there was a place where crackheads can turn to presidents, its nyc. i can see how the burgh might not provide such a mosaic of real life, lol, but nyc is a concrete jungle where dreams are made of.
Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:41 pm
@overit,
Thank you.
Not to mention that most of my crackhead stories dont end with anyone becoming doctors, lawyers or presidents. So I’m not even sure what “75″ he’s talking about. Teenaged parents who decide to stay in school and make something of themselves are far from the picture Champ’s trying to paint of ex-felon, crackhead physicists. “Not really my opinion, more of a discussion prompt” deez.
Ah…this is heavy this morning.
Champie, have you seen any of the documentaries on Eugenics?
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kingpinenut Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 8:49 am
@miss t-lee,
damn…the e word………
i’m not goin any futher…cause i’ll end up cussin
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miss t-lee Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:02 am
@kingpinenut,
We love it when you cuss though!!!!
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:31 pm
@miss t-lee,
Ah…this is heavy this morning.
for me, its heavy every morning
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i got you covered man..i got four……f.o.u.r
god bless the toasted nuts….and the doctors that roast em
after i send my seed out to help the world…then i’ll have some time for others. Believe me…raisin kids is no got dayum joke. it is w.o.r.k….for a life time and then some
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:32 pm
@kingpinenut,
i believe you, which is why the idea of little champ’s and champette’s scares me to death right now
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do you think that “people like us” are obligated to start having more children, or is this too eerily similar to the “selective engineering” that hitler was in favor of?
I don’t think “people like us” need to start having more children. I think the people putting out babies irresponsibly need help. I have friends older than me that have children that are teenagers and in their early 2os. This is my first time seeing the “cycle” repeated. None of these dudes went to college, they were in the streets, and so on. We have to be involved in the lives of children when they are young to prevent them from making bad decisions. A LOT of this comes from home. VSB and VSS need to be involved to counter the bad habits of their parents and surroundings. I don’t think VSS and VSB need to procreate. The VSB and VSS need to show Chardonnay and Pookie how to make more intelligent decisions regarding their choices in life.
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:37 pm
@Humble_One,
The VSB and VSS need to show Chardonnay and Pookie how to make more intelligent decisions regarding their choices in life.
how?
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Idiocracy is real
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kingpinenut Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:04 pm
@Deviant,
amen to that….
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i’m 28 and i’m not married and don’t have any children. i’m still continuing on with higher education, which at this point in my life is more important to me. i’ll probably get married in my early 30’s and start having children in my mid 30’s. i want to have 3 children but i’ll most likely have 2.
i don’t think its my obligation to have children because “dblock and nem” are having 20-11 kids. i’m all in favor of limiting reproduction of some people. simply put some people just shouldn’t reproduce. if you are 24 and have 4 children by 3 different dudes and you are on welfare then i think you should somehow be restricted from having any more kids.
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Dorian G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:38 am
@Tunde,
So lemme ask you, removing ideologies and realistically speaking, I just made you Tunde Reproduction Czar in America. Who can and who cannot reproduce, and what are the guidelines and cutoff?
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:48 am
@Dorian G.,
Yeah, I think we’re all annoyed when we see what we know is a shetty parent but I’m 100% against playing God and deciding who gets to keep making babies. I mean what if Joe & Katherine had to stop at 6 babies? Then what would my iTunes look like?
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Dorian G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:53 am
@Me fail english?,
But more than that why should we? Why now? Am I missing something, did I miss that black babies are worst off now than at any point in history? I dunno it don’t feel right (c) Roots
Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:01 pm
@Dorian G.,
I agree. We have too many stats in our faces that make us think more of our tax dollars are going to welfare/medicaid than actually are and people feel the need to stop gettin taken advantage of. When in fact, we suffer far worse assrape from other gov’t programs (see defense, pork).
It also doesnt address the problem it ostensibly aims to resolve: shetty children as a result of bad parenting. Poor people with lots of kids arent necessarily doing a worse job than the alcoholic, neglectful corporate lawyer with two kids and a nanny. We just feel more comfortable imposing on the rights of folks we know won’t/can’t fight back too hard. After all, they’re living off of “our tax dollars” or smthg. *side-eye*
Sanen85 Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:57 am
@Me fail english?, LOL. My iTunes would definitely have a huge hole in it.
miss t-lee Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:00 pm
@Dorian G.,
“Who can and who cannot reproduce, and what are the guidelines and cutoff?”
Definitely a slippery slope my friend.
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pgh muse Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:45 pm
@miss t-lee, i agree. it is a slippery slope… and a job i’m glad i’ll never have because honestly, I would slip a woman an IUD (not slip – she’d know and know why) in a New York minute… not even just for the sake of the children but for the sake of the woman. Sheit…
Tunde Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:27 pm
@Dorian G., lets say i was czar of america and i had absolute rule. in that event if you live below the poverty line then you can’t have any children. how can you take care of another life when you are struggling to take care of yourself.
next if you haven’t graduated high school then you can’t have children. what type of role model are you setting for your children about education? i understand that college isn’t for everyone but in this day and age you can basically sleep through high school and still graduate.
i would have punishment for violating these doctrines would be forced sterilization. harsh but i would rule with an iron fist.
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Sula in lalaland Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:52 pm
@Tunde,
if you live below the poverty line then you can’t have any children. how can you take care of another life when you are struggling to take care of yourself
I hope this is all in jest…
Because I recall you being from Nigeria… and according to the some international org or another, most people on the African continent are living below the poverty line surviving on less than a dollar a day. You surely know or have heard of people who will be considered “below the poverty line” and live in remote villages lacking the “basic” necessities… So according to this theory of yours (which I still think is in jest), those people are ALL bad parents? Is money the measuring stick for good vs. bad parenting? Please come back and tell me “sike! just playin’” because if not I’ll have a hard time wrapping my brain around that.
Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:59 pm
@Sula in lalaland,
Yeah I cant read sarcasm well over the web, either! I think (hope) he was just doing “arsony” things.
Tunde Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:11 pm
@Sula in lalaland, i’m not saying these people are “bad parents” at all. i just feel like if you don’t have the financial means to support say 5 kids then you shouldn’t be having 5 children. i don’t care what country you’re from. have as many kids as you want as long as you can support them.
also, i don’t think that just because you can afford children it makes you a good parent. but i think it can make it a little easier.
Dorian G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:00 pm
@Tunde,
Ok lets start from the top…
1. Here are the federal poverty line guidelines for 2009 http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/09poverty.shtml
As you can see if one makes over $11k they are above the poverty line. Thats less than $1k a month, which works out to $250 a week. Strippers make more than $250 a week. In fact the only people this rule would hurt are teenagers, and the disabled. So you will be fine enforcing forced sterilization on 14 year olds?
If you loosen up that grip and move it to those you deem to financially “struggle”, you open up a whole new can of worms. How about homemakers that don’t earn any money? How about middle class people that lost their job and are living off unemployment? Both of those groups I just named are predominantly white by the way.
2. What about immigrants who come here and earn their keep? They came here for a better life, are pretty hard working, make an honest living and contribute to society. Yet they’re unfit to have children because they don’t have your high school diploma? Seems a little harsh, no? Also lets say you earn a respectable amount of money, legally of course. Yet you don’t have a high school diploma, i’m speaking to entertainers, entrepreneurs, and the like. Do they now not have the right to have children, even if they have to financial means to take care of them?
I dunno czar, your ruling looks a little like selective breeding
Tunde Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:07 pm
@Dorian G., i think in my country there will always be room for exceptions. since i’m the czar i can do that. i believe that there are plenty of adults who make less that 11k a year (legally). these people should not be allowed to procreate.
people who emigrate to this country should have the equivalent to a high school diploma. yes i said it. you should be required to pass the equivalent of the GED before you start having children.
once again. my country, my rules. tough cookies.
I know it looks hopeless with this generation of kids. However, I wouldn’t totally discount all of them. Some will rise above their circumstances and situations and go on to become productive citizens of society. Obviously, some will not. VSS’s and VSB’s even when you do decide to have kids, unfortunately, your kids will not be immune to the perils and pitfalls that come with growing up in a world like ours today. We may be able to provide a better environment and a two parent household (Lord willing) thru their growing up years but even that doesn’t guarantee success. You can only try to instill in your kids good morals and values…and hope and pray they stay on the right path……..
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:42 pm
@QueenT,
You can only try to instill in your kids good morals and values
morals? what are those?
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First off who is to say what those children of D-block and Chardonay (LLS)may become, who they are pre-destined to be??? Nobody but the Lord knows that and can say for sure…. from a natural standpoint it may look like a cycle repeating but not necessarily so…
Secondly it will take an exceptional negro to even make me think about having children and the clock is ticking, I mean LOVE would really have to be on high … but who knows…. I may do a Halle but only with a brotha instead LLS
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:45 pm
@OrangeStar616,
Secondly it will take an exceptional negro to even make me think about having children
why did this make me start thinking about undercover brother for some reason?
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just wanted to make a few things clear.
talking about sh*t like forced sterilization for people from less than ideal circumstances doesn’t mean that i actually want it to happen, lol. if that were the case, none of my nieces or nephews (or obama, for that matter) would be here today, and i’d smack the sh*t out of someone who referred to one of them as “no chance”
still, i wrote about it because this is the underlying theme of every joke we tell about men with dozens of seeds and women with multiple baby daddies, and every study that shows that “we” (black people with somewhat of an education or whatever) aren’t getting married and/or having children.
and, even though i always hear people joke about it or hint at it, i’ve never actually heard a bunch of relatively young people actually having this discussion we’re having today, for fear that they’d say the wrong thing to the wrong person and come off as classist, insensitive, or even racist.
but, i aint scared of you muthaf*ckers
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OrangeStar616 Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:11 am
@The Champ, LLS, still who is to say, what even the children of VSB’s and VSS’ will become????… I see where you coming from as far as discussion, but just because you are born to folk who may have a lil education, are relatively intelligent, stable etc doesn’t guarantee anything…….
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Smiley Face Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:12 am
@The Champ,
lol..see what you get when you’re talking to a host of VSS and VSB’s..we ain’t scared of you either…go eat your toast, lol
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:46 pm
@Smiley Face,
eat deez
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No. Y’all shouldn’t have children.
You’re going to wait until you’re 35 – 40 years old, and your children are going to have schizophrenia and autism. Hell, they’ll be raised by other people just like twin babies Princess and Precious because you work twelve hour days.
Y’all are gonna have them in some whitewashed suburban neighborhood, where they will spend their lives being the only ones and will ultimately equate blackness with the ability to pu$$y pop like a video h0 or recite the lyrics of Plies.
A select few of you will give up on Black Love and marry white folk. Your children will not self-identify as “black,” but as biracial. They will endure decades of therapy to convince themselves of their apart racial status and eventually develop coke habits.
Most of these children will fail to realize that Negroes lack privilege in ‘post-racial’ America and try to act the fool like Becky and Chad at the elite schools at which they are legacies, causing them to fail out by the second semester of their Sophomore years.
The credits will not be transferable to the local community college.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:43 am
@kim,
LOL.. but
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miss t-lee Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:00 am
@Me fail english?,
This was my same reaction.
Well that and a healthy dose of side eye.
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pgh muse Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:52 am
@kim, I da*n near suffocated. This is hilarious. And true and sad at the same time. Are these the households where people have “Black Day”?
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:00 am
@pgh muse,
Black Day?! Smthg tells me Im bout to get mad.
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pgh muse Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:04 am
@Me fail english?, Lol. There was someone who posted a while back about one of his coworkers who had Black Day at his house. I think he lived in a white community, and worked around all white folks, so on the weekend he and his family would have “Black Day” where they did stuff that they equated with being black.
miss t-lee Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:10 am
@pgh muse,
‘da hell?
*sniggling extra hard*
Smiley Face Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:30 am
@pgh muse,
o_O…da hell?!! LMAO…wow.
Humble_One Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:51 pm
@pgh muse,
Is this true or a joke? If it is true this is just sad.
pgh muse Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:14 pm
@ Humble One,
It’s a true comment someone posted on here a while back.
V.E.G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:45 pm
@kim,
“You’re going to wait until you’re 35 – 40 years old, and your children are going to have schizophrenia and autism. ”
o_O
You forgot to add Down’s Syndrome to your list of doom. Thanks, thanks for scaring us. And by us, I mean me.
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Reecie Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:07 pm
@kim, or other readers–can anyone recommend some herbs or certain foods I can eat so that if I have a child post 34 they won’t get the “crazies”? I’m 28 now, supposedly very fertile despite being on BC forever, and in supreme health. please and thanks.
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Dorian G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:04 pm
@Reecie,
Note to self, strap up if ever getting down with a “Reecie” from FL
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:48 pm
@kim,
if i wasn’t already in a relationship i’d ask you to marry me.
welcome and sh*t, by the way
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I’m like the other folks who take issue with the whole notion on some Talented Tenth non-sense. I HATE that whole ideology. The only problem is that, it’s an unfortunate and real scenario. In an ideal world, those who are doing “better” could help those who aren’t and we’d all live happily ever after as a Black community with different variations all moving in the same direction…but that’s just not reality.
For most of us, we’re maybe a generation away from hardship circumstances. My parents were young when they had me and my dad bounced (not on purpose, but duty calls, but dude was still AWOL) leaving behind the trailer trash mother to raise the two kids in the suburbs of Detroit. My mother, despite her own self-destructive tendencies, found a way to make sure that my sister and I didn’t succumb to the same issues her family had. “Quality” and “life changing” individuals can come from anywhere. Some of the most well-off individuals I know, be it thru lineage or familial success, are the least stable and probably least equipped “parents” I’ll ever meet.
Much like that whole talented tenth notion, there’s the built in assumption that the have’s will do a better job of creating tomorrow’s leaders, and while that’s probably true (let’s be real, while we all can think of folks who’ve undoubtedly made it despite their circumstances, the majority of individuals who are making it do come from more stable family structures, etc), it creates class and intra-race divisions that are key to holding our community back in the first place. Nobody has to hold us down, we do it ourselves, really. White people can generally just sit back and watch with some Orville Redenbacher while we lampoon each other and our decisions in life and determine that only certain individuals really need to be out here having kids because those kids will be the ones to make it and keep the image of the middle class, working African American alive.
Now, I can’t lie, I’ve jokingly thought we needed a board in the Black community for all types of reasons. I’ve even said we need to stop some ninjas from having the ability to procreate, but its all jokes and Chappelle’s show skit ideas. If “that buck that bought a bottle, could have struck the lotto” then there’s a chance for any of these youngsters running around, the problem is that so many of us from better circumstances only view the way to help them out as giving an hour here and there without finding ways to get into the infrastructure and really make a difference.
Put simply, the mindset of the under-priveleged isn’t the only one that needs changing in order for our community to flourish.
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Smiley Face Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:22 am
@Panama Jackson, “Put simply, the mindset of the under-priveleged isn’t the only one that needs changing in order for our community to flourish.”
Thank you for saying that.
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OrangeStar616 Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:36 am
@Panama Jackson, love the Nasir Jones quote LOL..great expoundage sir….
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pgh muse Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:39 am
@Panama Jackson, the mindset of the under-priveleged isn’t the only one that needs changing in order for our community to flourish.
Amen to this whole post. Da*n. I feel like i just read Proverbs or something
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:46 am
@pgh muse,
Word. Rev. Jackson really knocked it outta the park with this one.
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Cheekie Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:41 am
@Panama Jackson,
“Put simply, the mindset of the under-priveleged isn’t the only one that needs changing in order for our community to flourish.”
*holy ghost*
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Miss Patterson Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:11 pm
@Panama Jackson, Peej is preaching today. Go ‘head.
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Melinda Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:24 pm
@Panama Jackson,
You hit it on the nail. The heart of the matter is that people wish that Boom Qui Qui and her ilk: trailer trash, people who want something for nothing, people who try to get over; would just vanish.
The elephant in the room is that folks just want to be able to point, judge, evaluate, and consequently put a price on those whom are deemed the bottom dwellers/botttom feeders/the sheep herd/the woefully self unaware folks. The truth is that you can slice and dice this conversation six ways and when the smoke clears the “untalented tenth” will still be there and they still have to be dealt with.
Ding! Ding! Ding! Newsflash: There will always be folks at the bottom of the stream. In a ways they’re there to teach us what not to do if we are to become a part of the “cycle breakers.”
Wanting them to keep their legs closed/sterilize them/or hoping that they’ll find a way to manufacture success out of thin air is simply based on utopian fantasy.
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Humble_One Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:57 pm
@Melinda,
“Ding! Ding! Ding! Newsflash: There will always be folks at the bottom of the stream. In a ways they’re there to teach us what not to do if we are to become a part of the “cycle breakers.””
This only true in this society because it thrives off of the failures and misfortunes of others.
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:50 pm
@Humble_One,
This only true in this society because it thrives off of the failures and misfortunes of others.
***pointing***
socialist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sula in lalaland Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:59 pm
@Panama Jackson,
Put simply, the mindset of the under-priveleged isn’t the only one that needs changing in order for our community to flourish.
Well stated sir!
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Humble_One Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:05 pm
@Panama Jackson,
the problem is that so many of us from better circumstances only view the way to help them out as giving an hour here and there without finding ways to get into the infrastructure and really make a difference.
This is what I am trying to figure out. I’m old enough to see the cycle first-hand amongst my friends having children. I don’t know how but there has to be some way to counter the negative influences from the community and parents without kidnapping the kids from the parents and putting them in a brainwash camp.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:19 pm
@Humble_One,
Well one way is to stay in the hood and be a change agent at ground zero. Homeowners taking good care of their property, advocating on behalf the kids to ensure the education is decent, thusly raising property values etc. But that would involve living in the ghetto. Yeah…no.
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Humble_One Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:34 pm
@Me fail english?,
That brings up something else. People that move out the hood. My city has the 2nd largest Arab population outside the middle east. You can see the contrast b/w their community and ours. The community is a mix with middle class wealthy and so on. Plus the majority of the businesses are owned by the people of that community.
Dorian G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:15 pm
@Humble_One,
Apples and Oranges (even tho everyone knows oranges are better)
Its impossible to compare the communities of immigrant minorities against those of the minority citizens of a country.
Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:20 pm
@Humble_One,
you know what. I’m all about moving back into a neighborhood in transition (towards the end of the transition) but sorry folks, I dont EVER wanna live in a straight up ghetto again. Like ever. Even if I dont have kids. I applaud the people who do it though.
Miss Patterson Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:19 pm
I think we all agree that no one is doomed based on their lineage. Clearly it’s not a scientific formula of if “a” then “b”. To be honest, it’s a crap shoot. In my lifetime, I have noticed some strange similarites among the classes of our race. The so-called privileged that are, as Panama points, out “maybe a generation away from hardship” produce some really emotionally and behaviorally complex children- children who are just as scarred as Dblock and Chardonnay. I can’t help but look at my own family and I know that both of my parents were on welfare during their childhood and that each of them individually sought a different path that included a college education and purusing competitive careers. However, even though my parents may have played the part, they never emotionally recovered from all the crap that they dealt with as children. And what they dealt with as children included living in dangerous low-income neighborhoods, dealing with their parent’s depression and unstable marriages and a cocktail of violence in the home. So, my parents may have escaped a pattern that one typically associates with poverty, but they didn’t walk away with answers. Perhaps theories, but not answers for how to make the world a better place. And their exposure to poverty certainly didn’t put them in a position to identify with poverty because they were too busy trying to escape that life and disassociate themselves with their lower class comrades. I guess what I’m trying to say is that the so-called privileged wear a mask. The “cycle of depression” that we so clearly identify, scrutinize and dissect among our brothas & sistas in the projects exists among the vsb and vss folk as well. We just hide that depression better, but it doesn’t disappear with access to Jack n Jill, unless a real behavioral approach is applied to understand all the patterns that have preceded your generation, including your own. (Btw, I’m a big advocate of mental health, even though I’m a little “touched”
) . I think anyone who’s going to help society has to help themselves first. Otherwise, it’s just the blind leading the blind.
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First off, 2009 I’m happy for you and Imma let you finish, but 1984 is the best year of all time because that’s when Cheekie was born!! Also, it is the star of today’s VSB’s title. *Shrug*
” it began with the usual pseudo serious ribbing about not settling down or having a family yet that mothers are prone to have with their handsome sons.”
Right, mothers have these convos with their handsome sons, but what did she talk about with you? *giggle*
So…
I think the saddest part about this story was when one of the girls said they had these kids so that someone would love them for them.
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miss t-lee Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:30 am
@Cheekie,
“I think the saddest part about this story was when one of the girls said they had these kids so that someone would love them for them.”
This happens waaaay too often. Trust and believe.
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Cheekie Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:46 am
@miss t-lee,
“This happens waaaay too often. Trust and believe.”
Unfortunately, it most definitely does…
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:53 am
@Cheekie,
Yea for ‘84!
lol@ “letting” 2009 finish.
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Dorian G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:42 am
@Cheekie,
Pretty much 1984 is historically the greatest year of all time. Must suck if you were not born that year as you are automatically inferior.
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Cheekie Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:06 pm
@Dorian G.,
“Pretty much 1984 is historically the greatest year of all time. ”
I say that all the time. So many great things were created that year.
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OrangeStar616 Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:41 pm
@Cheekie, I beg to differ 1974 was a very good year (c) Sinatra….Year of the Tiger among other things…a lil Royal girl came about a month early, on Father’s day no less…
V.E.G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:46 pm
@OrangeStar616,
Scratch that. 1975 is the bestest year eva. I made my entrance…a month late. Woo hoo!
Cheekie Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:48 pm
@OrangeStar616,
But wait, the first Mac computer was released for sale in 1984. Mac has sense then, made everything better by introducing the lowercase “i” to every single word. Case iclosed. lol
Cheekie Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:51 pm
*Edit:
That should say, “since”. Because, like Chardonnay and ‘nem…I can’t seem to spell.
Why that edit button in such a dayum hurry to disable? That edit button is like the workers at Panda Express. Slow down!!
miss t-lee Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:53 pm
@Dorian G.,
‘84? Pshhhh.
We are my 78 folks at?
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Sula in lalaland Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:02 pm
@miss t-lee,
Can I piggy back on that ‘79 tip?
OrangeStar616 Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:19 pm
@Cheekie, don’t know if the case is closed now LOL but Purple Rain did drop in ‘84, movie and album and thats why its a jive cool year to me LOL…my favorite track is “Take me with U” (strings strings strings and percussion) one the best intros and outros EVER in that song, sentiment is just LoVeLy…I could go and on……
The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:54 pm
@miss t-lee,
We are my 78 folks at?
in the hall already, on the wall already
OrangeStar616 Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:35 pm
@The Champ, so the ‘74 crew which includes Nasir Jones MUST be “already home”
I think thats my favorite track off BP3 btw….the joint speaks to me.
The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:55 pm
@Cheekie,
Right, mothers have these convos with their handsome sons, but what did she talk about with you? *giggle*
giggle deez
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Cheekie Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 5:08 pm
@The Champ,
Too many people giggle at ‘em as it is…
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One possible solution…when the “very smart (and rich) couples” are ready to have kids, they can adopt some less fortunate kids in addition to having their own.
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:56 pm
@Tre Baker,
good point.
welcome and sh*t
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I think there’s some wisdom and insight to be gained from Tracy Morgan’s recent interview with Campbell Brown:
http://campbellbrown.blogs.cnn.com/2009/10/20/tracy-morgan-web-extra/#more-2058
“That book – I mean every story in there about me is not a happy ending. But now, when I look back on it, it’s like wow, look where I’m at. And that’s the new black.
I mean, I was supposed to ball up and go in a corner or go somewhere. I didn’t fall through the cracks. I made some great choices. Oh, lord knows, I’ve made my mistakes. If you read the book, you know I’ve made – I’m not something that just fell from heaven, you know?
But I learn from them. And that – that’s the thing that – you have to have intelligence. You have to be able to learn to learn. And I – I’m still able to be here and laugh. And that is the most important thing to me in my life. I know people that don’t have anything to laugh about and this book right here is just like pick it up, read it and know that you are not the only one.
I think that’s the key to depression. When people start to, in their mind, think that they’re the only one going through this. No, my father died of AIDS. No, I hustled on the streets. No. And I still came out of it. And that’s what Barack is saying and that’s what “I Am” – “I Am the New Black” is about – the young people, the next generation. Pick yourself up by the bootstraps and believe. And if I could do it, you can do it. That’s all it was. I don’t want nobody to feel sorry for me or – or think anything other than I – no. This was all it was. There was struggle. And I had people along the way that loved me and helped me. I had a lot of people. It was like Harriet Tubman didn’t just free the slaves on her own. She had a lot of white people on the Underground Railroad. So she had help. And that’s what we’ve got to do to one another….
So I had to clean it up. I had to get myself together. And that book is just to let everybody know you can do it, too, baby. Just have hope. Don’t let your hope and don’t let your faith go. Hold onto it, no matter what nobody say.”
and fukk all that talk about we’re obligated to procreate. we’re obligated to make good decisions, (which include when and who to have a child with) raise our children the best way we can, and hope that our children make even better decisions than we made.
i may not be able to save the whole world… but i can start with myself and my family… and then the community… and so on.
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SouthernCharm Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:57 am
I just want to point out in the above excerpt, that Tracy Morgan acknowledged the fact that he had people along the way who helped, loved, and supported him… but ultimately HE had to clean it up. HE had to get HIMSELF together.
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V.E.G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:27 pm
@SouthernCharm,
There has to be a combination of desire and assistance/inspiration.
I know quite a few people who have wanted to turn things around but kept running into road blocks.
Wouldn’t it be great if there was someone who wanted to do right and, while in the process of getting their lives together, found a few supportive folks and helping hands?
Our system is set up to keep those who are down…down.
We need to acknowledge that and try to rectify it.
Some volunteer/mentor. Others get involved in politics b/c let’s face it – policy has to change or the cycle continues. Others just raise a cousin/niece/nephew. And still others donate cash to organizations. It all adds up and it is all necessary.
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SouthernCharm Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:38 pm
@V.E.G.,
I agree. And it all starts with a choice…
V.E.G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:49 pm
@SouthernCharm,
Yes. A choice on the part of those who want to do better and a choice on the part of those who are doing well not to write off the less fortunate.
Very interesting concept to think about. I do agree that children should be brought into the world where both parents can give them the best possible opportunity but that’s very conflicted with the whole nature of African American living in the United States. We are still subject to so much prejudice and segregation that even our own people are looking down on us as in the article. The brotha and his family seemed to be speaking from such an elevated stance that is was very disheartening to even read through the piece. If anything that type of mind frame is holding back our quote unquote species from matriculating. Because they may be financially stable or even have graduated with a couple advanced degrees means that even more of our people will be abandoning those in which we are responsible for going back to uplift. I appreciate what kiki and boog be doing. Who are we to judge or even to place value on one’s situation. If you look at most success stories from our mother and father’s generations where the parents got married at 17, 18 and 19 years old and started having children just as described. They came from huge families that were raised the same way in even more strenuous economic circumstances and they turned out good. And the blessing there was that they had family. Not this 1.5 children, a dog and white picket fence non-sense where you work so much that you let technology and private school raise your children. If that’s what we feel we must do as educated people to protect our niche of self-absorbed below middle class standard of living then give me back my permission slip because I don’t want to go on that field trip.
We are a people with a history from a fertile land of big families who re-created in our teenage years. The thing about our generation is that now when you have a baby at that young age the economy and our environment does not render the same economic opportunities that once were granted to the generation before us. We no longer self produce goods and services or support the culturally relevant resources in our communities. So we look at family as an allocated cost. Lets move away from the balance sheet and back towards the appreciation for life itself and the understanding that we are a reflection of each other. Those children that we so anxiously look down are the true reflection of the American Dream in which we have created.
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Sula in lalaland Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:43 pm
@Vince Rogers,
*slow clap*
If that’s what we feel we must do as educated people to protect our niche of self-absorbed below middle class standard of living then give me back my permission slip because I don’t want to go on that field trip.
And if that’s the case, I want my permission slip back as well.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:53 pm
@Vince Rogers,
“If you look at most success stories from our mother and father’s generations where the parents got married at 17, 18 and 19 years old and started having children just as described. They came from huge families that were raised the same way in even more strenuous economic circumstances and they turned out good. And the blessing there was that they had family.”
Excellent point. That was the norm not too long ago.
” Not this 1.5 children, a dog and white picket fence non-sense where you work so much that you let technology and private school raise your children”
This ^ is what’s new.
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:01 pm
@Vince Rogers,
The brotha and his family seemed to be speaking from such an elevated stance that is was very disheartening to even read through the piece
if you’re referring to the convo with my parents, trust me when i say that it was more tongue-in-cheek than anything else, even if subject is somewhat serious
welcome and sh*t, btw (i think)
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LMAO! So apparently Gov. Blagojevich, Sinbad and Darryl Strawberry were filming “Celebrity Apprentice” in the park across the street. How do you spell “rapidly dwindling relevance?
A-P-P-R-E-N-T-I-CE
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SouthernCharm Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:20 pm
@Me fail english?,
Lil Boosie should make a song about that… but he’s in jail so nevermind. LOL
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:40 pm
@SouthernCharm,
Wipe meh down!
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Cheekie Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:44 pm
@Me fail english?,
*Dying* @ Darryl Strawberry being on Celeb Apprentice because the last appearance I remember him from is The Simpsons. LMFAO
*choking on candy* @ Sinbad. I just saw a preview for “Houseguest” on BET, too. AHAHAHAAHAHA!
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don’t feel obligated to have biological children. If I’m unable to procreate, I can make peace with that. Nevertheless, I desire children. I love to adopt whether I have biological children/not. Some don’t aspire to become parents. That’s cool. You may positively serve your community by mentoring the youngins to extend the VSB& VSS lineage and Black America may prosper.
I strongly oppose the mass sterilization of groups of people society deems undesirable. I disagree this would never ever happen especially if society turn a blind eye to it. Some aspect of it may even be on our doorsteps. Who are we to say who shall/shall not reproduce? What kind of elitist ish is that? In addition, you’re stepping on your fellow citizen’s civil rights of ownership of his/her body through policies which authorize violations of it. This is especially alarming for Blacks because it’s several steps back into the time African slaves didn’t own their bodies, the slave masters did and they violated too. Blacks fought for ownership of their bodies, but now you’re talking about possibly infringing on it for involuntarily mass sterilization? That may open doors to other unconstitutional violations that may later affect you personally.
There are better ways to tackle this issue of uncontrollable fertility of the less fortunate without violating their civil liberties. For instance, by cutting government policies on the tax-payer base program that force citizens to pay for the less fortunates’ welfare. Some might argue that’s a selfish & cold move. It’s not. It’s would send a message of personal responsibility and voluntarism. The less fortunate would know the government is no longer confiscating earned labor of their neighbors on their behalf. It just might push them to act more responsibly. Some would have 1 to 2 instead of 5 children because there is no guaranteed welfare by the government. Also, everyone who now control more of their earned labor can voluntarily help the less fortunate get back on their feet through more charitable functions. Chances are society may take care of the ones in need much better than Big Brother.
These charitable functions may involve housing, health care, funds and education programs on safer sexual practices, hand out more contraceptives. Perhaps even inform them on voluntary sterilizations and adoptions options.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:21 pm
@SnijanaFleur,
“I disagree this would never ever happen”
Probably cause it already has. Check Buck v. Bell. And I forgot the name of the pill they were giving Puerto Rican Women to sterilize them without them knowing it.
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SnijanaFleur Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:23 pm
@Me fail english? Thanks for the cases.
I’m not shock. I suspect forced sterilization is occuring without people’s consent. These experimentations start on those labelled the most undesirable in society. Then gradually, mainstream doesn’t even know what hits him. That’s why it’s important to stand up against anykind of civil rights violations. If not for anything else, it’s for your own good.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:04 pm
@SnijanaFleur,
“That’s why it’s important to stand up against anykind of civil rights violations. If not for anything else, it’s for your own good.”
We are >here<
My fellow VS’s B’s and S’s – this is what you call meta-game.
The Champ has planted a seed amongst our mba/jd/phd having sistas that they should start giving it up to more often and with less inefficiency to our mba/jd/phd having brothas. Perhaps a few of you will be cool with some man-sharing. I’m black and make 6 figures and I’m willing volunteer to facilitate some of your baby needs *please send headshots to westindianarchie @ gee mail dot com as I will only be kinda financially responsible for pretty babies*
That being said the real problem here isn’t Flirtisha and Smoke having a brood of likkle picney dem. It’s much much bigger than that.
Whatever you want to believe, black folks had it worse 20-40 years ago, and even then Big-D and BoomQueesha was knowna as Leon and LaChelle. L&L was doing the same damn thing. Leon might have been “slightly” more fatherly then, just slightly.
But the real difference was that when push came to shove, Leon could get a straight job @ his local factory and hold down a family he didn’t particularly want.
A lot of us came from backgrounds like that. (I know I did) Where two young black folks who didn’t really know no better – daddy as a teen was running the streets and mama was a little fast, got together, and the chips fell where they went.
But your parents and grand parents could find gainful employment, despite their general unsavory/unsuitability amongst the rest of (black) America.
It’s really not even about changes in culture or “rap” music, or any other “soft” factor that people want to talk about. That’s that creeping christianity/victorianism that infects how people talk about big issues. Like if people suddenly found Jesus, everything would be alright.
It’s about the economy.
Those no-skill blue collar jobs that young hoods used to do, are now taken by my amigos Miguel n’nem. (and please believe Miguel n’nem ain’t living large at all. 16 people to a 2 bed room apartment, with $ being sent to Oaxaca…sheee….it)
The semi-skilled jobs got shipped out to Asia and India.
Like our boy David Simon was saying, it’s like we now just have an excess of people, and the powers that be have written them off.
That’s the real problem with gangs, drugs, teen pregnancy/unwed mothers. That’s the elephant in the room. If they sending programming and engineering jobs to Shanghai and Mumbai – education is NOT the key.
No amount of “act right” is going to solve the much bigger problem.
The Bill Cosby’s of the world just don’t see that.
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V.E.G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:33 pm
@WestIndianArchie,
Though your comment started with foolery – “I will only bekinda financially responsible for pretty babies” – I have to co-sign.
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OrangeStar616 Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:36 pm
@WestIndianArchie, very interesting *hits great thinker pose* LOL
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Melinda Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:40 pm
@WestIndianArchie,
*Speak*
Personal responsibility speak is a loaded gun. Not everybody gonna have their ducks all lined up all neatly in a row.
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WestIndianArchie Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:54 pm
@Melinda,
I think we can all agree that personal responsibility is an issue. We can always encourage and support, “Act Right”…but at the end of the day our community, this society still has 2 issues
1) we gotta deal with the small # of people who mess up
2) but we really gotta handle the vast majority of cats who do everything right – and still can’t get ahead.
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Unlikely Scholar Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:50 pm
@WestIndianArchie,
Probably the realest post in this whole thread.
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pgh muse Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:06 pm
@WestIndianArchie, The economy’s influence on the problems in the community is real. Regular everyday folks out there getting nickel and dimed to death is reality – and huge corporations shipping jobs everywhere else so that their lifestyles of consumption and more consumption are maintained is reality… but please don’t discount the impact of out of wack social customs on the black family dynamic. I don’t know any of the stats… i just know what i see. The changes in culture and music are factors that you call “soft” but back in the day a man would take that job at a factory to support his family and he would marry LaChelle even if he didn’t want to. Today he’ll just bounce and make another baby with another chick, and sell drugs instead of getting a low paying job. And that’s another thing. Black kids are more illiterate than ever before, how you going to get ANY job when you can’t read?… some things may be better, but lots of things are worse.
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WestIndianArchie Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:57 pm
@pgh muse,
The stats tell us that, black teenage pregnancy is down as is black teenage juvenile crime.
I’m pretty sure academic wise, we’re still doing better than we were 20 years ago.
When you look @ the community at large, you’re still only focusing on a relative handful of people and their “drama”.
It’s bigger than Maury Povich.
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pgh muse Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:43 pm
@WestIndianArchie, Ummmm… I don’t know about that. But I would have to get back to you. And this may be a regional perspective, but from where I’m sitting – we’re talking at best 50/50… not a scant minority who make it to Maury’s show.
Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:55 pm
@WestIndianArchie,
“I’m pretty sure academic wise, we’re still doing better than we were 20 years ago.”
I’d say no.
My parents went to ghetto public schools in NYC and you’d be surprised how thoroughly educated they are on literature, art, obscure historical facts. I have some straight up dope fiend, multiple felon, ne’er-do-well “uncles” and “aunties” who are well-versed in Shakespeare. That’s ’cause back then when well-educated (mostly Jewish) immigrants to NYC were discriminated against, they’d take teaching jobs in the ghetto. So even the inner-city public school kids were getting a world class education. Add to that the larger presence of fathers (even the deadbeat ones) who would whoop someone’s ass if they heard you werent in class and you have the previous generation (at least here in NYC) doing muuuuch better than my own.
I spent most of 7th grade freestyling, playing cards and coloring (yup with crayons). Those teachers wouldnt be able to get away with that if we had caring parents that went up to the school and raised hell. Alas, we didnt.
pgh muse Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:06 pm
@Me fail english?, Once again. Exactly. I have a school aged son, so I KNOW what’s happening in the public school system in my city. And friends who are public school teachers in my city… in a LOT of sections it’s just not pretty.
Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:28 pm
@pgh muse,
Girl yes! Its easy to throw it all on “the Man” from afar. But when you came up from ground zero with Flirtisha and know first-hand how she got to where she is…nuh uh. Reaganomics is NOT the reason these kids dont read good and won’t feed their babies. It certainly did not help the situation but if we allow closing factories to be the determining factor in whether we do or do not have strong families, something is terribly amiss in the black community.
Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:22 pm
@pgh muse,
I agree ED. This isnt the best economic climate for raising a family but (and I’ll admit this is largely anecdotal) my generation seems to have a lot less people who are TRYING. Trying to be good fathers, mothers, providers or nurturers. Black people who cant find jobs is not a new phenomenon. Before there was outsourcing they were shutting us out of unions or straight up not hiring us. But I have a lot less friends with fathers thanmy parents did growing up. That feels relatively new to me.
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pgh muse Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:58 pm
@Me fail english?, Exactly. West Indian Archie, I feel like we are coming from different universes. In the universe I live in, the Maury show is happening all around me. Not being a responsible adult is perfectly acceptable behavior for a lot of young people. The high school down the street from my house (Peabody for those of you who would know) is about 95% black, but the achievement rate is really low. My neighbor coaches track and told me that the drop out rate is like 50% with a about 60% of the males reading on like a 6th grade level. I don’t make 6 figures though (NTTAWWT)… so maybe that’s why we have different perspectives, WIA.
Dorian G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:24 pm
@Me fail english?,
Thats a case of perception shaping your reality though. People act as if men were stepping up to bat left right and center in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s. Cmon son.
Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:32 pm
@Dorian G.,
Possible. But I think if you polled people from my parents generation and asked how many of them lacked a father figure in the home vs. our generation you’d find significantly less Dads among our group. In fact, growing up I think most of the kids I knew didnt have a dad/stepdad at home. Some didnt even live with a mom. Just a grandma or smthg. And I grew up better off financially than them.
Dorian G. Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:56 pm
@Me fail english?,
So that goes against what you said. You said people in our generation seem to not be trying. I disagreed. I don’t think all that much has changed really from the past couple generations. If most people you remember growing up with ain’t have no pops, that means those born in the 60’s failed to try.
Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 5:03 pm
@Dorian G.,
Yeah I was thinking that as I hit submit. I fudged my generations. But the point stands that as time marches on there seem to be progressively less fathers around. My parents generation (those raised in the 60s) seem more likely to have had a Dad in the home than my generation (raised in the 80s/90s) or my neice’s generation (being raised now). Though my neice’s generation seems to be doing better on the “parents raising their own kids” front than our generation, they still havent seem to caught up with the baby boomers. Again anecdotal, but among my neices’ friends there is a noticeable absence of active fathers.
Sula in lalaland Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:11 pm
@WestIndianArchie,
My question then becomes: what, pray tell, might a solution to this problem be?
Because in essence, that - Miguel n’em taking the jobs, Engineering jobs being shipped to India, etc- , that is pure capitalism at work. The survival of the most profitable/least costly in an attempt to make the most $$.
I am curious to hear what you, educated black man with a 6 figure income
, think the solution could be.
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Unlikely Scholar Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:28 pm
@Sula in lalaland,
Please tell me that you don’t believe this is due to an “unrestricted free market”….so many corporate subsidies, kickbacks, and shady dealings (see: Nixon) have taken place that it is damn near laughable…we live in quasi-capitalism.
To try to rectify the clusterf**k that has taken place since the 70’s the first step is to repeal this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965
Ted Kennedy did America no favors ramming through that bs.
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Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:17 pm
@Unlikely Scholar,
Sula is referring to outsourcing. You’re talking about legal immigrants and I guess visa/green card people. Two very different issues with two very different outcomes. Outsourcing is the result of deregulating financial markets.
Sula in lalaland Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:54 pm
@Me fail english?,
Thanks Me fail.
@Unlikely Scholar,
So, let’s pretend the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 was not passed. What could have been different than what is happening now?
I am trying to see how you explain the correlation between the current economic situation and said Immigration Act.
Me fail english? Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:04 pm
@Sula.
My guess if the Act hadnt passed:
-We’d just have more illegal aliens competing for the lowest paying jobs, creating MORE competition for minimally educated Flirtisha and D-Block. Let’s be honest, if you’re determined to be here, the law aint stoppin most of ya. And once you’re here illegally its not like you can be choosy about what jobs to take. IHOP busboy, there you are.
-We’d be outsourcing even more jobs to companies and employees that dont pay payroll or income taxes to live/operate here. Think engineering. We have a very real void to fill here and I dont see a ton of Americans stepping up to fill those very available, domestic jobs. So we have to import workers or set up offices overseas.
Sula in lalaland Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:06 pm
@Me fail english?,
Exactly!
Reason why I wanted our Unlikely Scholar to break it down for me so I can understand what s/he understands.
WestIndianArchie Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:06 pm
@Sula in lalaland,
The solutions presented thus far
1) more education -> creates a bunch of people who will invent things -> those things will be made, distributed, sold, and repaired by people here.
Whatever it is that we’re making (biotechnological drugs, windmills, solar cells, electric cars, facetumblwitter) – has to employ millions of people that have relatively low skills and employs them @ 25-40 bucks an hour now, and more in the future.
2) All of us learn Chinese and move.
3) Ban globalization and imports – i.e. make everything here – increasing the price of everything here.
4) a permanent decline in our standard of living
Hmmm, i’ll have to get back to you.
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Sula in lalaland Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:50 pm
@WestIndianArchie,
Gotcha.
Number 1 is a viable option and is the primary reason why we still all believe so much in education.
But you know what? At this rate, I think I’ll go with your #2 and add Hindi to the mix. Lol!
Humble_One Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:18 pm
@WestIndianArchie,
You just explained a significant population of Detroit. This is a problem here that no one discusses. I don’t like it but a lot of people are seen as disposable. There is a ridiculous amount of people here 30 and older with kids can’t read at a 6th grade level. If your parent can’t read and dropped out and they don’t appreciate education what kind of chance does the child has?
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I haven’t read anything. That image almost gave me a heart attack. Please choose your photos more carefully. I’m too old for that. What the………
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:05 pm
@Ms. Hall,
nope
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I guess we wait longer and longer cause we want our kids to have the opportunities afforded to us and to be BETTER than us. I don’t think if I had a kid now as successful as I am I’d be able to hold him/her down the way I want to…
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:08 pm
@Da Iceman,
I guess we wait longer and longer cause we want our kids to have the opportunities afforded to us and to be BETTER than us. I don’t think if I had a kid now as successful as I am I’d be able to hold him/her down the way I want to…
thats a good point, but how successful do you have to be?
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Da Iceman Reply:
October 23rd, 2009 at 5:18 am
@The Champ, That’s the dilemma I guess at some point you just have to go for it…
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first off, i was born in 1984 so kudos to me.
but anyway, having a child is a MAJOR DECISION and even more important than that a MAJOR CONSEQUENCE. and i’m all for the idea that people’s first priority should be to procreate…..but why? if someone is doing it, than the world will never be short of human beings.
my major issue with this entire issue is that far too many people who are absolutely unqualified to properly raise a child-despite education. despite having a background like yours, where i assume they had two parents, a stable household, and role models or mentors to rival claire and cliff. i think no one really takes into consideration that maybe these educated people are not the best suited individuals to make babies. i have a cousin who is almost 40, has a five year old son and has the mothering skills of joan crawford- not that she beats her kid…i just mean in the way she relates to him. just has no business with a child. this same cousin graduated from spelman college, enjoyed a successful engineering career- had a serious little successful sitch going on- but that doesn’t make her a good mother. all that education, all that hard work. i think people who make assumptions about who has children and who doesn’t are looking at how all that looks and not at is this child being raised in a way that enables them to be aware of the choices for their own adult lives? it’s not our parents jobs to make our way- they just need to expose us to the roads.
as far as those kids in chicago- i mean obvs. chicago as a whole has mad issues, but not every girl in that school is pregnant. just like not eveyr black person is ghetto, not every white person is educated- i think the main argument for me is that for every good there is a bad in every instance. and that’s just life. and that’s just how i look at it. it’s not a trend that young people are having children; it’s a fact. and the so called “elite” who should be procreating (i say that dripping with sarcasm), if they spent as much time planning for a family as they did planning for that rhodes scholarship or that 401k then they’d have no problem. and because what somone decides to do with their sex organs is such a huge topic in the media, somebody somewhere will be trying to cook up the argument for Big Brother to regulate our freedom to procreate.
but the bottom line is people do what they want. and no one should ever assume that because they come from a family where mom was a teacher and daddy was a doctor that they themselves deserve to spawn a bunch of brats anymore than anyone else. that’s like some stepbrothers type mess to think that dad’s career is the “family business”.
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:11 pm
@tacita,
but the bottom line is people do what they want.
people do what they want, but as books like outliers have proven, environment means more than any other single factor, including intelligence
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Okay taking off my politically correct hat. This post highlights a very real problem…and it’s not just limited to black people (please reference Idiocracy)
but it’s clearly present in the black community. The more educated people are the less likely they are to produce a brood of kids. That’s real in just about any culture….save for the 2520’s getting fertility treatments and popping kids out 2-8 at a time. And while kids born in less than ideal circumstances obviously shouldn’t be written off as automatic failures (I wasn’t exactly born into ideal circumstances and I did alright) it can’t be denied that it’s going to be harder for them to “succeed” (whatever that means) than it would be if they were born into “more ideal” circumstances. Yeah we can talk about giving back, mentoring and blah blah blah but if more of the so called “educated” or “successful” black folks don’t start procreating there won’t be enough mentors to go around in a couple of generations. While I don’t want to believe black people are approaching extinction, I also don’t see too many of my black peers marrying and having kids. (My job has a high population of Puerto Ricans and in contrast to the black people they seem to come to the mainland marry and procreate with extreme efficiency….this is clearly due in part to some cultural differences…but maybe black people need to examine what going on in our culture that makes it so hard for this to be a part of our reality)
This ties into the well documented plight of the black woman and her chances of ever getting married (and therefore having kids within a marriage) and how abysmally low these chances get the more educated she is. But that’s a whole different topic.
I don’t really have a point to make here but we definitely got some issues as a community and all the mentoring in the world ain’t about to fix it.
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I see this topic done popped off in all kinds of segue-ways….if only the woefully self unaware knew how much we cared *Snickers*….
That’s why you gotta laugh to keep from crying…and not take this stuff too seriously…trust that the serial baby mamas & their no count sperm donors ain’t thinking bout jive turkey…cept living their lives…
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The Champ Reply:
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:12 pm
@Melinda,
I see this topic done popped off in all kinds of segue-ways
lol, another day in the life of vsb.com
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“That’s why you gotta laugh to keep from crying…and not take this stuff too seriously…trust that the serial baby mamas & their no count sperm donors ain’t thinking bout jive turkey…cept living their lives…”
TRUER WORDS HAVE NOT BEEN SPOKEN.
That’s the real damage report on this situation within our black community: the complete inclusiveness and shortsightedness of living this type of existence. I know. I lived it.
And people unfortunately get “caught up,” and what remains of their goals and dreams gets snuffed out. I wish that there could be a program to take people out of nasty circumstances (if only for a few days) and show them how different the world can look in other places…shoot, sometimes just down the street!
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I’ve thought about this whole imbalance of the “us” vs “them” birthrate. I have a cousin who keeps having kids; often I’ve wanted to go to her, give her the side eye, and tell her it’s time for her to start to seriously consider getting her tubes tide.
For me, the issue is not looking down on people for the circumstances they were born into, it’s recognizing that many continue to make poor choices, and don’t want to change/are beyond “help.” You can’t save someone who doesn’t want to be saved; at some point their life has to be at least as important to them as it is to someone else trying to help. People have to take some ownership of their lives/decisions (I think this lack of a sense of agency is what is at root in a lot of our problems). In the meantime, I don’t think other people should forefit their safety/lives to “help” other people. who may not even appreciate it or really want it.
As far as the VSB/VSS’s, I think marriage (to healthy marriage-minded people) should be encouraged, but folks shouldn’t have kids if they don’t want them or aren’t ready. However, it does seem like we’ll die out, not to be too dramatic. Maybe their will be a VSB VSS baby boom some time in the future, lol.
As far as the 1984 stuff, I think sex ed/birth control should be widely available and encouraged, including steralization for those willing to do so. As far as intervention goes, some of the root causes could be addressed (eg low self esteem issues that contribute to early/continued sexual activity with no protection, sexual abuse leading to promiscuity, etc), but how long will it take for those interventions to work for those open to them?
I care about my ‘community’, but things are going down hill, and I’m not sure we have the time to turn things around at this point.
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idk if this has been said, but has anyone seen the movie Idiocracy? The first few scenes deal with this and the movie is based on the “smart folks have died out” premise.
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I think we as the sensible side of the family should spread more positive seeds at least 3 each ..reason being the children with sensible parents are being overwhelmed by ignorance due to the fact they are outnumbered by children with children with parents who have being throughly brainwashed by white supremacy to think that a life of crime ,ignorance ,laziness,thugging is okay or the natural way for black people.and i read a few comments about birth control above and I say to my fam who think that is the best course of action do some research on eugenics , marget sanger , planned parent hood and youtube maafa too.lets replinish the earth family
Peace
I.S.L.A.M.
Kush
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